How to Avoid Bad Influences On Your Marriage

Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly we'll be talking about some of the good things and the potential bad things that can affect your marriage. I'm John Fuller and to get us started, Jim, let's review some inspirational quotes for married couples. For example, a great marriage is not when the perfect couple comes together, it's when an imperfect couple learns to enjoy their differences.

I think we could just sit right there and think about that for a minute. But another one is at the end of the day you can either focus on what's pulling you apart or what's keeping you together. That's good, that's good. How about this one, a quote that couples might want to put on the wall, against all odds and despite all obstacles we are going to make it, we're committed. And here's one from our guest today, Dave Willis who said, your marriage will not be defined by the size of your struggles but the size of your commitment to overcome the struggles together. And I really like that, I think it's a healthy way to look at marital strife.

Indeed. You know we often say this but it's worth repeating again and again, a good marriage doesn't happen, you've got to work toward that and that should be a goal. All of us can be a little lazy at times, it's kind of like, you know, I practiced, I did the two-a-days, now we're in the season, I don't need to work out that hard.

You know, for all of us sports fanatics that's the analogy. But it is something you have to think about and practice and work toward and it's so funny so often I'll come home and say, Jean, I've got two things we should think about in our marriage to go, who did you record with today? You know, she gets me every time, she's actually right, I'm bringing somebody else's great idea home to try it. But our goal here at Focus on the Family is to help you have the best possible marriage you can have especially as Christians but even non-believers can benefit from God's natural truth and law, right? So today we're going to have a great discussion about encouraging you and helping you in your marriage. Yeah and this is going to help take your relationship to the next level and in many ways the conversations for couples in healthy relationships.

We have a lot of resources here if you're struggling and we'd invite you to stop by our website or give us a call. The conversation with Dave and Ashley Willis is going to be good, they're fun and they have a lot of great content. They've devoted themselves to helping men and women grow in their marriages and they host the Naked Marriage podcast, they write books, they speak and they write for the Exo Marriage Ministry as well. Well Dave and Ashley, welcome back.

Thank you. We love hanging out with you guys. We've been having fun just talking.

I know we have. It's really good to have you guys, you're a bright spot, you know, you come in and light up a room together so that actually says something about your relationship too I think. Well thank you.

Ashley especially, she lights up a room. No, you do. It's fun, it's life, that's what that is. Hey, you both blog regularly and we're going to pull I think this content is really pulling from a lot of your blog stuff so now you're going, uh-oh, what did we say, what did we say? And we haven't told you ahead of time what we're going to ask you about but for example, you tell couples to share everything they can rather than have separate bank accounts and hobbies and maybe even friends. What are you getting at there not to do life separately?

Yeah, I think it's important. I think the healthiest couples and like our mentors, those we look at, those have been married 50, 60, 70 years and still are best friends. One of the trends we've seen in them is that they share as much as they can and they don't divide up their lives as his and hers, you know, his dreams, her dreams, his money, her money, his friends, her friends. Now of course, you're going to have some stuff that you do that's more of a hobby for you or more of a pursuit for you but as a whole, the more we can share, the more we can overlap and realize that our lives, our goals by God's design are meant to be unified in a really special way. I like that, that's good. I was a little worried there because I do enjoy golf and Jean does not like to play golf so I thought, oh goodness, if she doesn't play, then I got to give this up.

Like what? Yeah, you can keep, you keep your hobbies for sure. I mean, you don't have to, you're not Siamese twins in marriage. I mean, you can still do some stuff but, but just as a whole, the more we can say, how can we share more experiences, I think is a good place to start. Ashley, you also talk and blog often and write about young couples putting their relationship on hold during the early years of parenting. We definitely didn't intend for that to happen, but man, parenting is exhausting. Yes. And it's easy to say, okay, here's some areas I could carve out a little time to sleep and you know, not be as attentive with my spouse, et cetera.

Why is that dangerous? Man, listen, we really fell into this dynamic too because you're just so busy and you're, like you said, you're so exhausted, but it's so dangerous because I think a lot of couples tell themselves, well, our kids need our attention right now and they need our best attention right now. We each understand that. So you just need to know that I love you and like deal with it, you know, and then we'll reintroduce ourselves to each other kind of when our kids grow up and are out of the house. That's a long time. I know it's a very long time, but this really is I think on a subconscious level, what couples do and what we're finding is they end up with an empty nest and an empty marriage and there's like an epidemic of couples, you know, raising their kids, getting to that kind of finish line of getting kids, you know, lunch so to speak. You never really finish parenting. You're always a parent, but you know, they all of a sudden have this house to their selves again and they're like, I don't know this person. In that context of looking back, especially for couples that may not have done that well, they did pour into their kids.

They made it a kid centric home and that's what you're talking about versus a marriage centric home and the kids are just there, which is, which is really healthy. That's the way to do it. But you know, again, if you're halfway into it, the listeners, the viewers that are, uh, you know, hearing this right now, what are some things you could do to kind of say, okay, we got to change that. Cause it's really hard. A mom's heart is for her kids. So it's hard to say, okay, I'm gonna change some things.

What does that look like? Well, it looks like looking at your schedule because there are some things that happen to us in life that we don't have control over, but we as adults can have control over our schedule. And so I know for us, it looked like not doing every single activity our kids wanted to do in every season of their childhood, putting some things on the shelf and saying like, okay, you know, we have four boys, you can do one activity right now so that mom and dad can have a date night. Like in our house Mondays or date night, we call it Mondays and they call it mom, dad time. Like they, it's just, it's just how our kids, you know, refer to it. It wasn't always that way, but we had to put things kind of in the schedule to make sure that, that we had time together and we were being really intentional about that, but also preparing our kids for that time because we hear a lot of parents say, well, I don't, you know, I would love to go on a date, but my son or daughter is going to lose it. They're going to be so upset. The babysitter's going to call me, we're going to waste that time and that money and I'm going to have to come home anyway. It's just too hard. And I get that, but it takes working through a couple of hard times where the kids don't get it and just prepping them saying like, listen, this is because mom and dad love each other and we love you so much that we want to have a really good marriage. We'll be home in a couple hours.

Don't worry, we're coming back. And eventually the kids do rise to the occasion, but it takes working through a couple of hard moments. You warn couples about turning into cable company marriages. Now I've never personally worked for a cable company, so I'm not sure how they operate, but what's going on with that analogy? Well, so the thought came, like we had this guy that was going door to door in our neighborhood and selling like, you know, internet and cable and all this stuff. And, and he was like, man, I got, I got an amazing deal for you as a new customer, the best.

I'm like, oh man, you do that for me. You know, like, you know, it was the best price, the best service, all this stuff. And he was like, and it lasts for 12 whole months. And I'm like, what happens after 12 months? And he's like, well, you know, that's, this is our initial offer for new cut, but after 12 months, you know, the price will go up.

You're not going to get all these same services. And I'm like, wait a second. You're telling me, you're telling me like, you're giving me the best you got right up front. But then after we've developed a relationship and you know, I'm committed, then you give me as little as you can to keep me around.

And he sort of laughed and he said, yeah, but that's how everybody does it. And I got thinking, I said, you know what, I think in, in our marriages, in our culture, there's some of that mentality, that kind of the cable company mentality. It's like at the beginning of the relationship, I'm going to give you everything I got, all the goodies, all the goodies, everything, you know, you're number one priority.

You are the most important thing in my life. But then after the introductory period wears off, and the deal has been sealed and I feel like I've got you, then people start saying, well, what's the least amount of effort I can give to keep this person around. And marriages, we just see an epidemic of marriages that sort of operate like that with this consumer mentality of, I want to get as much as I can from this relationship, give as little as I can to this relationship. And it's just, it's toxic and it's broken and it's the opposite of what God intended marriages to be. And so we challenge ourselves to do and challenge couples to do is continue to pursue each other, continue to try to out serve one another, to give each other your best through every season of marriage. And if you'll do those things consistently, then your marriage really can grow sweeter and richer over time instead of drifting apart.

And the gray divorce that we're seeing with, with these new empty nesters getting divorced at an alarming rate and it can keep getting better. Even if you've had sort of that cable company mentality up to now, you can start right where you are and say, wow, you know, I'm realizing that I've, I've, I've blown it in this area and I want to restart. I want to do it better. I want to start serving you and pursuing you again.

I'm smiling because I'm thinking of the buzzword or the keyword. You know, a lot of us couples will to escape a situation. You'll have a certain, uh, like first base coach signal or something like that. But in this case it'd be, have you paid the cable bill, honey? Hey, you're coming from the wrong direction here. So that'd be a good little, uh, signal to your spouse.

Have you paid the cable bill? I'm not here for the old contract, but Ashley, let me ask you this outsource. You talk about this in your blogs, outsourcing your friendships, et cetera. Why is that a kind of a little dangerous to do that?

And what do we need to guard against? Because I like for women, you often hear in marriage counseling that, you know what, your husband can't meet all your emotional needs. So you need these strong friendships with women that can help, you know, fill in that blank. And all the husband said, Hey man, but you're saying be careful.

So eliminate that for me. We absolutely need friendships and in this, you know, the person we marry can't fulfill every single one of our needs and they shouldn't, you know, and that's a dangerous place. I know.

I'm just now hearing this and after 22 years he knows man. And it's like, and I think it's wrong to put that on our spouse. We're really setting ourselves up for disappointment. So we need really good godly friendships. But where, where I kind of see this go wrong is we see both men and women can do this, but especially with women I see, cause this is my world, you know, that I live in. I see women form these really strong bonds with their best friends and they plan, like they always have something on the calendar with their best friends, with their ladies. They're always going to have a girls trip. They're always going to have a ladies night. So they're intentional.

So they're very intentional about that, but won't be intentional at all about date night. And maybe their husband isn't being intentional about that either. And then it just becomes like a lot of times when we've counseled with people going through this, it becomes eventually like a husband bash fest.

Like, you know, I have my girls, I'm getting through life with my girls. And then we just kind of talk bad about everything our husband is doing wrong. And so then after you're with those people who you love and I'm sure have some good things to say, but like there's this when you're bashing your husband, you come home and you're going to treat your husband in the way that you were just talking about them. And they were talking about their husbands and so it can breed negativity.

So I just always warn women, like it doesn't mean you can't have a trusted friend to talk through some of your marital issues with, but you need to make sure that friend has four qualities. They first of all need to love God. They need to love you. They need to love your spouse.

Okay. And also be for your marriage. And if they don't have all four of those qualities, you can't really trust what they're going to tell you. They can tell you stuff about other things in your life, but if they don't have all four of those qualities, then they're not going to give the best marriage advice. And I would also be very leery of, of taking marriage advice from someone who's bashing their husband all the time because they're probably in a really rough spot. It doesn't mean they're not a great person. I'm not trying to hate on people who are going through that because I know people go through really rough times, but we don't need to go to them and start, you know, getting marriage advice from someone who clearly is just down on marriage right now in their life. Yeah, I like that.

That's good insight. Seek out wise counselors for your relationship. We're listening to Dave and Ashley Willis today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and we have resources for you and your marriage. And one we're pointing to is written by the Willis's. It's called The Naked Marriage, undressing the truth about sex, intimacy, and lifelong love.

Details are in the show notes. And then we also have a free marriage assessment available for you. It's going to help you understand your strengths and navigate potential obstacles to a healthier relationship with your spouse. About a million people have taken this. Why don't you join them?

The free marriage assessment can be found at MarriageMilestone.com. Dave, I use a term, the snoozer marriage. It makes me laugh.

I mean, I think, okay, I could get into that. I mean, sometimes I think husbands, if we're talking about women who connect with friends and very intentional and it leans in the wife's direction, I would say that's probably true. Not to be stereotypical, but there's that relational connection that women have that's different from men. Our problem is the snoozer marriage. I like this where you, you kind of hesitate and move away from conflict. You know, you just hit, hit the snooze button. We'll deal with that later.

And guys are really, I, I'm really prone to that. I don't really want to deal with that right now. Snooze. Let's just pretend it's not there. Right. Right. And let's not deal with it because you know what'll happen.

Yeah, but you got to do it though. You know, you got to deal with stuff. It's kind of like having a, if you've got a tumor, a cancerous tumor inside your body, you can walk around for a certain amount of time and pretend it's not there because it's going to be painful to have that thing cut out. But it has to come out or it's going to grow. It's going to metastasize.

It's going to get worse. And within relationships, within marriage specifically, when there are these un, undealt with issues, they're kind of like a tumor that it has to be surgically removed. It has to be dealt with, identified, taken out, and that can be a painful process.

It can be a messy process, but you got to do it. And I think, I think for men, just to challenge the guys for a second, again, not to be stereotypical, but women tend to do a better job of being able to lean in and, and real, have real discussions. They want that resolution.

They want the resolution. And guys, we tend to be better, I guess is probably, it may be the wrong word, but better at ignoring stuff, you know, just pretending that it's not there. And even I think about even in our like male friendships, we can keep stuff on the surface. Like I'll go hang out with my friends and like, Hey, I had lunch with Bob and sweetie's like, well, how are you know, how are his kids? Is his kids still struggling?

I'm like, Bob has kids. I'm like, what do you guys talk? You didn't talk about family.

How's his wife? I'm like, I don't know. I didn't ask him that stuff. Like we were just, we were just talking about football.

I don't know. We've got to lean in a little bit more in all of our relationships, but especially in marriage to get to the root of what's going on and to not be content with just living on the surface. Ashley, uh, emotions in marriage, huh? Are there emotions in there?

Um, but they, they aren't reliable. I mean, love cannot be built simply as an emotion. It's a commitment. It's a decision that you make all the time. Um, discuss that idea that if we're trying to live just on the emotional side of love, when that tank is dry, you may end up doing or saying things that are not helpful to the relationship. So you have to move it out of the emotional area and make it a decision, right?

Man, this is so true. We we've experienced that in our own marriage where we've gone through like dry spells where you're just, maybe you're not feeling all gushy about each other because life is hard. You know, for us, it's been transitions like moving and not really feeling part of the community and then kind of taking it out on each other, but not necessarily yelling at each other, which I'm sure that that happens too, but just kind of not being as kind to each other, just in our countenance, in our tone and things like that. You know, I reminded just by you asking that question about emotions years ago, I was going on a girls trip with two dear friends of mine and in the car, our friend who'd been married for 10 years says, I've decided to leave my husband. And we're all like, what?

I mean, it dropped a bomb and we were like, what is going on? Oh my gosh, I didn't know things were bad. She goes, no, things are fine. There's not been any infidelity. He's pretty good to me.

Actually. She's like, I just, I just don't have those feelings anymore and I need to have those feelings. And um, so my friend who is also traveling with us, we both really were kind of praying in the spirit, you know, just like, Lord, give us the words. And we did, we just kind of ask her some questions about, well, do you think that maybe you could go for this amount of time and see a counselor?

Have you read this book? You know, just different things that have helped us through our marriages. And we really shared our testimony about going through hard times. And let me tell you, by the end of that trip, I saw God do the miraculous in my friend. And it was like, she stopped really depending on her emotions to guide her marriage. And she was like, you know what? I I'm letting my emotions drive this, this marriage and I do want to feel those feelings, but she said, I'm going to focus on the commitment and I'm going to go home and we're going to get help. And I'm here to tell you, they did the hard work and they ended up, you know, getting through that hard time.

They ended up having another child and today they're still married and they're in love more than ever, but it goes back to not letting emotions be that kind of that gauge to judge your marriage, so to speak, because yes, we need to look at our emotions. I mean, there's something to look at and to say like, why am I feeling this way? But we can't let that be our compass. You know, God is our compass. God is our foundation and we have to really follow our commitments. And we hope our commitments are built on the foundation of Christ and knowing that he can get us through anything. Right.

And it's so good. And some people might be saying, yeah, you know, I'm committed, but it's so dry. That's where the work we're talking about comes in. Just put work into it.

Yes. And it does require some of that. And your marriage will be in a better place. Believe me, we are up on all the statistics. We're reading all the social science coming out. I think Brad Wilcox, Dr. Brad Wilcox out of the University of Virginia, has a relatively new book out. It's just called Get Married because all the data is you will be happier, more joyful. Life will be better for you if you're in a loving marriage.

And it's unassailable. This is it. This is like 50 year research that they're looking at. So societies will be better. I mean, like communities will be better.

Families will be better. How about that? God's plan at work. It really works. It's amazing. Duh. But there we are. Dave, I understand you have a friend named Josh who's been a good encourager for you.

You're training for a marathon. How did he man up with you to say, come on, dude? Well, you got to have you got to have friends in your life that push you like Ashley did with with her friend in that moment of real turning point of like this marriage could end or it could move forward. And the voices that you allow to speak into your life when you're coming to a crossroads are so important. So if you're right now listening and maybe your marriage is in a hard place or whatever, make sure you're surrounding yourself with people who love you, love your spouse.

You're going to speak truth. And we all need friends who will push us in other areas as well. And so the one time I finished a marathon, I tried once on my own, I didn't finish because I hadn't trained right. And so there's this Marine friend in our church named Josh who is like his blood type is testosterone. He's just this manly dude and had run marathons, but is also still like really muscly. I'm like, how do you run distance with that much muscle? It doesn't make sense, but he does it. And I'm like, hey, could I run with you?

Would you show me how to train to do a marathon? He's like, yeah, we start tomorrow. Six a.m. You know, I'm like, well, hang on.

Six a.m. I'm a pastor. I'm not Amish.

I don't want to get up and expand your definition of friends. Right. Right. And he's like, no, we start tomorrow. So so we get out there and like and he's like, all right, today, seven miles. I'm like, wait a second. I'm going to like to ride a bike for this or I'm going to drive for five of it or what?

Seven miles. And he had this whole plan and I'm running with him and, you know, I'm running faster than I would have. He's pushing me. I want to quit constantly.

It was terrible. And, you know, when I would try to quit, he would just keep pushing me there. Tease me when I needed teasing. Encourage me when I needed encouragement. One day my knee was really hurting. And I was like, hey, man, is your knee ever hurt when you're running? He's like all the time. Well, what do you do?

All six of them. Yeah. What do you do when it's hurting? What's the trick for that? He goes, I'll tell you exactly what to do. He said, open up a can of man, a can of man. And I started laughing so hard thinking about a can of man that I forgot that I was hurting. Right.

It's not like. So then every time I'm like hurting, I keep thinking, open a can of man, you know, push through. And and now I like use that in our family when our kids are going through something hard.

Hey, open a can of man. But having a friend to push you and encourage you and run the race with you because he was right there with me. You know, he was hurting, too.

He was right there with me. It makes a big difference. And I think all of us are called to have friends like that and be friends like that and be that kind of friend even to your spouse, because your spouse should be your closest friend and the race you're running with them is the most important one. You know, what's interesting with that, as you say it. This is where the church, I think, has a disconnect with men, because we're as a church community, we're kind of soft on each other in discipline.

Yeah. I mean, we're a little harder on the world expecting them to act like the church. But we're pretty soft on the church acting like the church. I actually think if men stood up and were men, open a can of man in the church context, one on one, forget the real not with women, but one on one with each other.

We would have a far stronger spiritual church without a doubt. Yeah, yeah. We need to do that. Get me out there. I'll see you at five thirty tomorrow morning. I'll open a can of man with you anytime. That's good. Let's close with advice for couples, husbands and wives who are maybe not clued into friendship building with your spouse.

And this is such a big one. I mean, your best friend should be your spouse. That's the person who knows you the most intimately and also hopefully loves you the most. So how do you how do you build that friendship between each other?

Man, I love that question, because I truly believe the best marriages are built on a close friendship, you know, a best friendship. And I would say and this is something I was challenged in kind of early in our marriage is really be willing to enter into their world that is different from your world. And for us, I remember in the early years, I was just like, I didn't grow up in a sports family. Like I grew up as a dancer, really an artsy family, but not a sports family.

And and I would just always in my mind and to day be like, that's just not me. And I but I saw how much it meant to you. And I remember one time you pretty much like begged me, like, please just come to a pro football game with me, please. Yeah. And somebody had good tickets. Okay. Yeah. Good tickets to help. Shopping spree also helps. Yes, it does.

It does. So like we go. It happened to be in Jacksonville, Jacksonville Jaguars.

We were living we were living over there. I know. Right. So I didn't even care. So the tickets were cheap shopping spree. How good the team was or anything at the time. I don't even remember.

But I was like, I'm going to do this just to see why he loves this so much. Why go there? And it just so happened, you all they had the best game of their life at that time. And there was they won by a kick or something.

Yard field goal. It was exciting time going out. And actually looked at me at the end here. And she goes, I get it.

Yeah. And I was like, what are we going to the next game? So then I've been to a Yankees game.

I've been to a Red Sox game. So and now I want to go to with you because I see it pulls like into her world. You know, I've gone to theater with her. It wasn't my thing. Like, you know, and all of a sudden I'm like, like, hey, this is pretty good.

I watch shows with her that I would never watch on my own. You know, I just need to ask, was it as exciting going to the theater? No. We saw Aida. It's not on Broadway anymore. You had tears in your eyes.

It touched your heart. It's a different kind of thing. But I'll watch stuff with her that I had no interest in just to be with her. Like, she'll be watching these wedding shows. And I'm like, we already got married. Why are we watching this? You know, and she's she's into and they're like, you know, why are these girls rating each other's weddings? This seems lame. But after a few episodes in, I'm like, oh, that venue is not going to work. And then, you know, that that catering needs to change. And that that dress is so last season, you know, like, but you're just leaning into each other's world. And the more you can share, the better your friendship is going to grow.

What is your can a man friend think of the wedding show? I've had cash in a few man points. Josh, if you're listening, I'm sorry. I'll do push ups. I'll punish myself.

No about that. You're in trouble, man. Anyway, Dave and Ashley, this has been so fun. And you know, it's great to see how you guys interact and you're, you know, proof is in the pudding. We're sitting here with you.

You can tell you love each other. And it's fun. And that's the way it should be. And thanks for modeling it. And thanks for not only the book, The Naked Marriage, but your blog and how you communicate. We're thankful you're going to be doing our chapel here at focus on the family for the staff.

So that is wonderful as well. We appreciate that. And man, if you are in that place, this isn't as john said earlier, that you know, if you're looking at divorce, we have resources for that, like hope restored and some other things.

But if it's just clunking along, and maybe some of the things we've talked about today, that emotion, that lack of friendship, direction, commitment, you know, it's just doesn't seem 100%. Get in touch with us. That's what we're here for.

It can be so much better. And we have this great resource for you, the naked marriage as our way of getting you involved in ministry. If you can make a gift of any amount, monthly is great. That's how Jean and I support the ministry.

But a one time gift is good too. So either way, send it and be part of the ministry and we'll see into the book as always saying thank you. Yeah, donate today request that book and find a variety of other resources to help strengthen your marriage.

Our phone numbers 800 the letter A and the word family and all the details are in the show notes. Also we're going to link over to our free marriage assessment over a million people have taken this it's a terrific little resource, maybe five or 10 minutes of your time and it'll lead to hours of conversation that you and your spouse can have because it'll point out things that are going well and it will shine a light on some things that you might want to talk about and grow in. We love doing that as humans.

It's a well that's why but it's very productive. Yeah, yeah. So we'll link over that free marriage assessment in the show notes. Dave and Ashley, thank you so much for being with us. Hey, we love you guys. Thanks for having us. And coming up tomorrow, we're going to be discussing how to be more effective as you share your faith. Real relationships is where things happen.

And anytime I look at a person as a project, where I need to find a way to present the gospel to them, it's like I'm focusing on that outcome, but I'm not really having a relationship with them. On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Boost your marriage with advice, heartwarming stories and more by listening to season seven of the Loving Well podcast from Focus on the Family. I'm Erin Smalley, and I host this podcast with my husband, Dr. Greg Smalley. Join us as we chat about how to make time for each other, fun ideas for Valentine's Day, and what makes a marriage great. Listen to Loving Well on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.