Allowing Grace to Transform Your Marriage (Part 1 of 2)

If it is in the day-to-day struggles of life that marriage hasn't delivered what you thought it would be, kind of like Rad and I are sharing here, then if you will be fueled by the Lord, I mean, Christ came to give life, life to the full, not in the easy. Christ's life wasn't easy, and our lives are not going to be easy, but we can have life to the full if we go to Him and say, Okay, show me how You want me to love my spouse today. What does that look like to creatively love the person that I've committed till death do us part and watch what the Lord's going to do? That's Marilyn Rhodes, and she joins us today along with her husband, Brad.

This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller. John, as a husband or a wife, you have a unique opportunity to show love and grace to your spouse. Now, probably your reaction to that comment tells a lot about where you're at.

Oh, gee, I got an opportunity to do that probably is the first indicator of either a problem or a blessing. And today we want to discuss how to tap into the fruit of the Spirit to apply it to your marriage. Now, you remember that's joy, love, peace, goodness, kindness, mercy, long suffering, patience. And I think marriage demands it all.

And it's the hardest place sometimes to display God's fruit in your life. And we want to talk about it today, because it probably is the exact antidote and the thing that you need to make sure you have a healthy and loving relationship. And as I said, Brad and Marilyn Rhodes are our guests.

They've been here before. They are co-founders of Grace Marriage, which is a ministry designed to help local churches strengthen marriages in their communities. And today we'll be talking about a book that Brad and Marilyn have written. It's called The Grace Marriage, How the Gospel and Intentionality Transform Your Relationship.

Stop by the show notes for a copy or give us a call. Brad and Marilyn, welcome back to Focus on the Family. Thank you for having us. Thank you.

It's so good to have you. And what a great topic. Sometimes it feels a little counterintuitive. You know, grace. Yeah, grace is good, but people take advantage of grace. You know, you can start rationalizing. But man, in marriage, we need really a lot of grace, don't we? Because it's your closest relationship.

They see the good, the bad and the ugly. Yes, it's we've all got problems. We've all got issues. We all have struggles. And in marriage, like nobody knows your problems like your spouse. I guess that's the point I'm making. It's so there's no place grace is needed more in human relationships.

Not just the problems, but your spouse sees hopefully the godliness that you display, but probably the selfishness you do too. Like nobody else, right? Can you not put your dirty laundry in the spot that you need to put it in? That's a godly thing. I always go to the laundry. I don't know.

Poor Jean. I keep these piles. I've got you travel. I've got the dirty power ready to go. And then it's the almost dirty, but I could wear it one more time. t shirt activity, you know, so I've got these. Yeah, I mean, and then she messes the piles up and then I'm lost.

It's like, no, no, no. Anyway, you guys had a kind of a whirlwind romance and quickly married if I remember the story correctly. So describe that. And how did that work out for you in your first year of marriage? Well, it worked out better for me than Maryland.

So well, let's start with Maryland. What was that like? So you're dating? How long did you date?

Three and a half months? I would not recommend that we were married four months later, moved to a new town. And I was starting graduate school, he was building a law practice and the wheels came off. They came off before the honeymoon ended.

Really? First fight was at our reception. About about I was rude the photographer.

Oh, you were and he was a family friend. He was kind of done. At the end, we're walking to the car and he's like, let's just stop and take one more picture. Let's just stop.

Why don't you just take one more picture? It was reasonable. I mean, I looked at me like, Oh, my goodness, he's rude. First picture, but, but it was it's so true. I went from her favorite person, the least favorite person in about six months. Yeah, okay.

Wow. So were you a little concerned at that point? All of a sudden, you saw the the real man not, you know, it wasn't that major of a deal at the moment, but I was a little embarrassed. But as we got married, I was really concerned. Because we both you're talking about what the fruits of the Spirit are and what love is. Well, we're just so naturally self seeking.

Oh, we are. And we're just told that marriage, it should just work. So I expected it to just be easy and work and he was going to meet my needs. And I was focused on really what I wanted.

And he was focused on what he wanted. Yeah, well, that's a crash course. It really is. And in the book, you describe that first year as being just tumultuous, right? And but in some ways, too, it does give you an awareness. So that is a benefit. Because some people go 1415 20 years, and they, they think it's not going quite right, but they're not quite sure.

I mean, you guys got the heavy dose of this ain't the way it should work. Right at the beginning, right? So how did what did that look like for you guys to quickly how old were you at the time you got married? I was 23.

Yeah, 27. Okay, and so boom, you're popping into this thing. And the first year you're going, this is not heaven. For me, I didn't think it was that bad. I mean, I thought our biggest problem being a male. Yeah. I thought our biggest problem was her hypersensitivity. And she would just settle down. Yeah, we're okay.

It's not so bad. So did that become your goal how to settle her down? Yes.

Is that the counselor you would give her? Just settle down. I did.

In fact, I would use a hand signal and say, Marilyn, just call. Oh, that's down. You can ask. It brought a lot of tears and a lot of frustration. And that was, that was just wasn't nice.

Yeah. And I think, you know, so often, and Gina, I've done this, you know, on a scale of one to 10, how do you think the marriage is? And I say, I think nine or 10. She's like, I think two or three. How could that be true?

I am a wonderful person. It's often. Did you guys have that kind of a change? And was it similar in numbers? It would, it would have, we didn't talk about numbers, but it would have been similar.

Like saying, I thought we were fine. I was completely miserable and lonely and thought, wow, is this it? So you had a bowling league experience that you described. Yeah.

Yeah. Let's go to the bowling league. This is a perfect picture of our first years. Brad's huge into sports. My family, zero into sports.

And I married into this very, and he wanted to join a bowling league to help create business for the law practice. And we were listening to staticky St. Louis Cardinals baseball game on the way to go bowling. I'm in this horrible, ugly bowling shirt. I'm on a league with all guys. I'm the only girl on our team. There were other girls on other teams, but, and then we get there, we bowl in the smoke filled environment. I have to go home and take a shower.

We're on our way home and it's raining outside. We're in a new town and there's a football game that's going on in a high school football game. He said, there's a football game.

Do you want to go watch it? I said, do I want to go sit in the rain and watch high school kids that I don't even know smoke? And he said, yeah. And I said, no, I want to go home.

So he dropped me off at the house and went back and watched the football game by himself in the rain. Yeah. I was, I was so into building a law practice and I thought there's no lawyers in the bowling league. I'll meet new clients every single week. I got referrals from that league for 18 years. I mean, it's like a free legal clinic.

I would sit there and they come from all the other lanes to come ask me questions. I just give them cards. And I mean, it was just, I was starting from first scratch and that was, so it worked from my perspective, from her to get business. Yeah. Maryland's get a lot of things.

Bowling isn't one of them. Okay. So, you know, and this is so informative for people listening because they might be in the same spot you guys were in and that's what we're going to drive through here the next today and tomorrow. But in that regard, what's catching each of your, well, is your attention being caught, Brad? I mean, are you going, okay, what's going on here?

It's not working as well as I should given Maryland's crying like every couple of days and being distraught. How did you, how'd you pull the stick back in that airplane of emotion and say, okay, we've got to land this thing. Well, God just opened my eyes. I mean, I went to a, was there a day that this happened? There was, there was a day. I remember vividly.

What was the two by four that he used to get your attention? It was, well, I was forced to go to a marriage conference. I didn't want to attend and I mean, literally forced, I'll spare the details, but I went, I didn't want to go. I didn't think I needed to go to the football game, but you won't go to marriage fair.

You're not teasing. Cause I didn't want to go to football. But they put up Ephesians five. Husbands love your wife is Christ loved the church and gave his life for her. And I was just asked the question, what do you give up for Maryland? Nothing. I mean, I did what I wanted to do.

Basketball league, softball leagues, build a law practice. Husbands live with your wife in an understanding way. I just said, Brad, do you listen to her? Do you just sit and listen to her heart for hours?

No, don't be harsh with your wife. And it's like all of a sudden my sin became HD clear. It might've been when I was saved. I mean, I just remember thinking I'm doing absolutely nothing right. So I came home to Maryland. I said, look, the only thing that's going to be different is everything.

I don't expect you to believe me. I wouldn't believe me, but in five years, you'll know God changed your husband. And our marriage literally experienced a miracle over the weekend. Maryland had already got to a better spot of sufficiency of Christ. So when that weekend occurred, we instantly went to a new spot in marriage.

That's so good though. I mean, how were you processing this cautiously or enthusiastically? Cautiously.

Yeah, that seems reasonable. But he came home and I was an early riser and he would get up two minutes before he had to be out the door. And he came outside the next morning and he had gotten in at two in the morning and I was planting flowers before church because it was spring. And he walked outside at five in the morning and said, where do you want me to dig? And I looked at him like he was an alien because he would climb out of bed right before we had to be out the door. So, and that's when he said that to me. And I just, it just hit me. Like you took the best gift God's ever given you the most godly, beautiful woman ever.

And you've treated like garbage for a year. And I remember thinking on the way back, she's still there. And I just want to make it right.

And I still, I mean, it's like, it grieves me what I did to her for that year. But to your point earlier, I don't know that grace marriage would exist as a ministry if we didn't have that really hard year. But yeah, we, we know both sides of it and we love taking couples from where we were to where God's helped us get.

Well, that's the whole point, right? And it takes effort. It takes awareness.

It takes application of doing it differently. And everybody's somewhere on that continuum. I doubt there's a perfect marriage because we're not perfect people.

We're selfish, as you said earlier. Describe what a performance based marriage looks like. That's the theme of the book. You're talking about grace based marriage or grace marriage. So the opposite of that, I guess, would be the performance based marriage. It sounds sophisticated. It sounds professional. It sounds like a graduate class in relationship, but performance based. What are the adjectives that describe a performance based marriage? It's conditional.

It's if you're kind to me, then I'll be kind to you. You know, in that first year, when Brad wasn't acting like I wanted him to act or helping me, I just withdrew. I distanced myself from him.

I cried. I just felt alone and I wasn't going to do kind things for him. I really just isolated myself. Let's unravel that a little bit. What was happening to you emotionally? Because I, in some ways you represent wives, obviously. And so you became more isolated. What was happening to you that you like you couldn't express it or you felt like when you expressed it, Brad would just knock it down or didn't receive it. But kind of tease that out a little bit because I'm sure half the audiences or more will be female and they're going, Oh, I can identify with Marilyn. That's happening to me right now.

Yes. So what does that look like or feel like? It was an emotional roller coaster. Because when you're in a performance based mode, then if things are going well, if he comes home and he doesn't watch sports and he goes on a run with me, then I'm going to be thrilled. I'm going to be glad they got his time.

But then if he doesn't, and he's not thoughtful and just sits in front of ESPN and collapses until he goes to bed at night, then I'm sad and I'm crying. And it was this roller coaster of up and down based on how you're treating me or how you're not treating me. So it was a role and I'm naturally more of a steady person. So the fact that marriage made me this, like Brad said, hypersensitive was the word he used.

It's crying on a regular basis and miserable. A lot of that the Lord showed me even before he went to that conference. I'm putting my hope in him and my hopes in Christ. And when we come at marriage, like I was saying in a selfish self-seeking way, which is what I was doing, not that he needed to be acting the way he was acting, but when I'm just focused on myself and what I'm going to get rather than, okay, Lord, how are you calling me to love Brad? What are you calling me to in marriage? So we both came so selfish.

And then when you, when you couple that with this performance approach we have in all of life, it's, it's miserable and lonely. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and our guests today are Brad and Marilyn Rhodes. They've captured a lot of what we're talking about and much, much more in their book, The Grace Marriage, How the Gospel and Intentionality Transform Your Relationship. Look for a copy of this book on our website.

The link is in the show notes or give us a call. 800, the letter A and the word family. Marilyn, let me ask you the, the transition of that. And what I mean is intellectually we can get there. We know that if we are not self-seeking, if we're looking for the best in our spouse we understand the Lord wants that expectation from us, et cetera. But then translating that emotionally so that it's real and true. I find most people struggle there because we're sitting in church, we're hearing what to do and how to do it. And we can regurgitate it and we could say, yeah, you know, I'm treating my husband in a godly way, but sometimes that doesn't translate emotionally.

Intellectually it does, but emotionally it doesn't. So how did you connect those thoughts to say, yeah, I'm really going to lay my life down. I'm really going to try to see Brad differently.

And this one's coming to you too, Brad. So start thinking about it. It was an aha moment for me because I really was to the point I was just, I thought, is this it Lord? This is what marriage is.

And that's when I almost audibly heard him say, you have put him in the place of me. I'm your hope, not your marriage. And the whole fuel to emotionally getting there because intellectually we can and we know this, but we have to be reminded daily, filled up in the spirit. I mean, it's still a reminder daily to go to the Lord and spend time with him and be reminded that that's what I'm to offer to my spouse and to everybody that he places in my path is to lay down my life for another.

And so emotionally, the only way you can get there is by the help of the Holy Spirit. So Brad, on your side now, come in your direction. You have to sit and listen to these things being said about you, but you're the husband. How about you in that performance-based marriage?

Where were you falling short? Well, one, I wasn't pursuing a great marriage at all. You know, I was with Marilyn came at me about something that wasn't responsive to her. I was just took offense that she didn't appreciate me.

She didn't do this. And I was conditioning my love as well. And I watched Marilyn when she realized that Jesus Christ is sufficient. I mean, he is enough. He's enough for me. It's not him plus you. And I'm okay.

It's him and I'm okay. So when she quits driving for a good marriage, quit addressing issues with me. It's just, she went to a stable place on the rock of Jesus Christ so that our marriage stabilized. Now it didn't get good yet because I was still in the marriage. I mean, it got steady. But when the Lord broke me is when it went, we went from bad to steady to great.

Yeah. And that's such a great way to describe that the, uh, grace-based marriage is the goal. That's obviously the point of the grace marriage book.

So you're moving from this performance conditional orientation. What are the tiles that get laid on your path that begin to create a grace marriage? It's Romans 6, 14 says, sin will have no dominion over you because you're under grace, not law. So it says sin won't be your master, won't control you because you're under grace, not law. So in a marriage, sin will have no dominion or control over marriage if it's under grace. It's not sin has no control because you both graduate to such great spouses.

Life too hard for that. Just too much comes at us for us to be consistent all the time. But when love is just given as a free gift of grace, Marilyn's kind to me. Marilyn pursues me. She's generous with me.

She's all these things. It's not because I'm impressive. It's just that you deserve it.

No, I don't at all. She just gives it to me as a free gift of grace. But think about what we received from God. It wasn't like he looked down and said, wow, look at Brad and Jim.

They're so impressive. I think I'm going to give them some grace and good stuff. You're singing Gene's music.

Yeah. He said, while we're yet sinners, Christ died for us. And it says, how do we supposed to love one another like that? While, you know, while Marilyn's let us center, I'm to die for her. While I'm a sinner, Marilyn's to die for me.

Why? Because our marriage is so much bigger than just us having more happy. Our marriage is about bringing God glory and putting Jesus Christ on display.

You know, you guys are in it. We're in it here at focus on the family, the marriage battle, if we want to use that terminology. But I mean, when you think about it, look at all the metaphors that Jesus himself used about the bride and the bridegroom, the marriage. There's something powerful there about marriage and the illustration that it is for our spiritual journey, that God is using these illustrations so powerfully, right?

Have you thought about that? I mean, this is amazing. Oh, it really is. And that's the sad thing is God created marriage and it's the most beautiful thing. I mean, it is a great gig. I mean, other than my relationship with Jesus, the most fun I have in life is with Marilyn.

You do life with your very best friend, get the date and enjoy one another. Then most people just get dominated by cell phones and the business life and miss out on the gift God gave them. And then that analogy, husband, wife, Christ in the church, it's almost a turnoff to the gospel as opposed to an attractional magnetic force to the gospel. Darrell Bock Mm.

No, that's true. Marilyn, you mentioned in the book this idea of rescue mentality in your marriage. It sounds great. What does it mean?

Marilyn Mm. Well, I mean, this is another where you take the verse, yet while I was a sinner, Christ died for me. He rescued us. And while Brad's a sinner and I'm a sinner, we lay down our lives for one another. So when we're struggling, because life's hard.

It throws a lot of tough things at us. And then you bring to the table our flesh that naturally wants to rise at times. When you have a rescue mentality and you have a grace mentality, you get over things so much faster because it's God's kindness that leads to sin. It doesn't give a jerk license. You were asking earlier, does this give someone a free pass when I went to Brad and shared my hope is in Christ?

It really, I think it's more exposing of sin when you have a kind response. I know when Brad's come in and I'm with the kids, and especially when they were little, and I had it up to my eyeballs with kids, and I'm short, and I'm throwing a baby at him, and maybe not talking to another child like I should. I can remember a specific time. I really was. I was blowing it at the house and Brad walked in and kind of looked around and he just jumped in and started helping. And he grabbed one of the kids that was on my every nerve and took him for a walk around the block. Well, that just left me to deal with myself.

They came back in. I apologize to both of them. But if he had come in and said, Marilyn, you know, you need to do this. My response would have been, you have no idea.

You haven't been here. And that would have just escalated my struggle. And I probably would have defended myself and not felt, felt repentant for it.

It would have made you resentful. Right. That's what that does.

Right. But instead I was left to see my sin was exposed before me in that rescue approach. And you know, in that way, you're giving a great example of a grace marriage when you come in and say, okay, what do I need to help you do or just do it without even asking?

That's awesome. Where do you think with the couples that you interact with to help them along this journey? Where are the majority of couples failing? They take offense at the manifestation of the struggle and withdrawal as opposed to having a posture of pursuit and rescue. I mean, it's natural when somebody doesn't act great to want to withdraw from them.

But we're in a gospel of pursuit. And I'll just give you a real tangible example. When I was in the law practice, just the law got the better of me. Anxiety, couldn't sleep, had a case.

I thought I had messed up and I was just working around the clock. I was cold. I was distant. I was anxious.

I knew I shouldn't be any of those things. But I was like, Lord, give me peace. I couldn't find it. Lord, take anxiety away from me.

I couldn't find it. But Marilyn is kind to me throughout that process. I come home one day and she's sobbing. I'm like, what's wrong? She said, I'm just worried about you.

I've been praying for you all afternoon. So what if she takes a different approach? Would you quit being cold? Would you quit being distant? Would you quit being anxious? Would you handle life better? Oh, that's my problem. I'll just handle life better. Grace, it's really our only answer because when we really try to change the behavior of our spouse through repeated verbal efforts, how effective is that?

Well, I appreciate that. That's kind of what I'm dancing around when I say moving from an intellectual understanding to an emotional standing. That really is what I'm saying because it's difficult to actually do grace. It's easy to understand its application, but it is hard for us as selfish creatures to actually put into play grace. And more initially than over time, because the more you practice it, we have a concept called red light in the dash.

When your spouse, you can tell they're doing poorly or red lights up on their dash they need care. So it's become a lot more natural for Marilyn and I over time that when Marilyn sees me doing poorly for her to try to help me instead of just getting frustrated at me. And frankly, grace is hard, but the alternative is harder. And couples that come to me in crisis council and they just can't stand each other and they say, well, grace is hard.

I'm like, with all due respect, what you're doing looks a little harder. I said, it is difficult in the short run, but in the long run, it creates a new atmosphere and it builds your relationship on the rock and the forgiveness of Jesus, not on the inconsistency of the behavior of man. You know, at the end of this first day, and we want you to come back tomorrow. We'll keep the conversation going really to help couples do a better job. And I'll tell you what marriage is under fire today. We are getting inundated with negative messaging about marriage. And we here at focus on the family. I know you too want to build up the institution of marriage because it is God's design. And when it works, it works beautifully and it brings such a peace, not only to your family, but your community and everything else. Think of marriages. Generally we're going really well.

This world would be a different place. And that excites me. That's why I put my effort into it and I know it's your cause as well. But I'm thinking of that couple that is back in year one of your marriage. That's what they're living.

And they're, she's going, oh my gosh, Marilyn. So identify with where you were at and I'm struggling. Um, what can they do to move out of that performance based marriage into a grace based marriage today to begin that process? What at the end of day one here, what would you recommend? I mean, we're going to offer the book, but what are you saying they need to do? You're just pursue the Lord first and just ask him what he's, what he's calling you to start with yourself is the first place to start because we're so naturally focused on what we're wanting from the other. Yeah, that's very true.

Anything to add Brad? I just totally agree with Marilyn. When I sit with the Lord, you know, he shifted my attention off of me onto loving others. So it's, we love because he first loved us. So rest in his delight. You're an adopted son or daughter of Christ if you're in him and then live out of that confidence, fully loved.

So then you can love others. It's a good start. Let's come back next time and keep it going. Can we do it?

Sounds great. All right, let me turn to the listener and we're here for you to focus on the family. Our goal is to equip you by giving you great resources, opportunity. We have hope restored, which is our marriage intensive program.

It's an incredible program. I mean, four out of five couples, two years after that experience will still be married and doing much better and have greater satisfaction in their marriage. So it starts the process and about half of those have signed divorce papers.

So it's an amazing save rate, if I could call it that, that really does equip the couples to do marriage far better than they have been doing it, obviously. So if that is something that you need to look at, give us a call. We'll give you the information and talk with you more about it. But at the very least, the Grace Marriage Book, we want to make that available to you. If you can make a donation of any amount, do that and we'll send it as our way of saying thank you. If you can't afford to, we'll trust others, we'll cover the cost of doing that ministry and just let us know you need the book and we'll get it into your hands. As Jim said, encouraging marriages is a passion here at Focus on the Family and let us know how we can help you.

Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family, 800-232-6459. Or stop by the show notes for all the details about hope restored, about this great book, The Grace Marriage, and about supporting the ministry of Focus on the Family. And on behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family.

I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we continue the conversation with Brad and Marilyn and once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. As a parent, it's easy to find myself sitting backseat to my kids, in the backseat. It's tough to be a step ahead.

In full honesty, I'm pretty hard on myself when that happens. But I've found Practice Makes Parent, a podcast from Focus on the Family, hosted by Dr. Danny Huerta and Rebecca St. James. It helps me be more intentional and not feel alone when things get tough. Everything they share is practical and well practiced, and I can use it right away. Listen to Practice Makes Parent wherever you get your podcasts.