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September 14, 2021 6:00 am
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Taken: their lines and even their trombone to let them forget their Bible is bringing across the nation and encourage your kids to carry their mind and empower them with just 12 line 9 them to let God's word honored held and heard and never forgotten your voice heard.
Sign up for your vital so let's think through clearly what the Bible teaches. This is woe to those who call evil good, and what we must do is to stand against it and say we will not bow to the pressures of this culture is Dr. Erwin loser sharing about the very real, lasting hope we have in Jesus Christ. No matter the difficulties we face in an increasingly hostile culture and he's our guest today on Focus on the Family as we dig into some tough issues that are colliding with a biblical worldview and really breakneck speed. I hope you'll stay with us for important conversation your hostess focus president and author Jim Daly in on John Fuller John we are at a crossroads today in our culture and it's amazing how rapidly things are changing and not for the better. Some people call it what culture or cancel culture that were only certain points of view are allowed to be expressed in many Christian viewpoints are generally unwelcome and in public settings and unfortunately, we can expect more of that going forward.
It's a challenging time for us as moms and dads and for the church in general. So how do we live courageously in a culture that wants to silence us. We were honored to have Dr. Erwin loser in the studio a few days ago to help us address the question and help us respond in truth and love. This is going to be a very important conversation and I hope you learn from it. Just as I did and share this information with others. Erwin loser is pastor emeritus of the Moody Church in Chicago, where he served as senior pastor for 36 years. He's written a number of books and his radio program running to win is heard on several hundred radio stations in the US and across the world is written a great book called, we will not be silenced.
And that's the basis for our conversation today, we do have copies of that book. Here you'll find the link in the episode notes and here's how that conversation began. Dr. loser. It's great to have you back on Focus on the Family so wonderful to be with you today. Jim and of course were going to be talking about some very important topics that we are in this one.
Of course, when you talk cultural issues. Boy, everybody's going to be kind of all over the map on things.
But I love what you've done in your book, we will not be silenced as it raises the absolutely right issues for right now and this will be a unique Focus on the Family program. As we talk about structures and biblically informed structures and not biblically informed structures and let's get to it. Many Americans and Christians are deeply disturbed by what's happening in our culture today may feel like it's happened overnight. But in your book, we've actually seen and you depict that these integrations of the Judeo-Christian value system have been chipped away at for decades explained that well. It's really true that there are a number of streams that flowed into our culture, but I would say Jim that I think in the last years we've seen a tremendous acceleration of the streams but the one that I begin with, and I want people to understand is cultural Marxism you know cultural Marxism differs from classical Marxism classical Marxism emphasize the fact of economics and the state was to become God. In effect, and there was to be a revolution cultural Marxism says we can achieve the same ends incrementally and what does that mean first of all, it means the supremacy of the state and once you have the supremacy of the state. You of course begin to take away human freedom because humans don't want to criticize the state that there dependent upon but this is Focus on the Family what we must understand is that Karl Marx believed that the family was a unit of oppression that had to be overthrown. You see his whole theory of history was based on oppression Menno press their wives, parents will press their children.
They took them to church, God was the ultimate old presser. Of course, and therefore the authority of God had to be overthrown. So, what was his answer. He said very explicitly that it was to exploit the relationships within the family, but in effect to destroy them to exploit children for his point of view, and that therefore women should work outside the home, because they should become a part of the means of production and also the children should be educated by the state so that the children could be properly informed regarding the evils of creationism God and the Bible and church and so forth. So this was his vision. What we must understand is that oppression does exist, there's no question about it, but Marx made a tremendously great error when he suggested that all bad behavior is because of oppression, just remove the old oppression and it will be all gone and people are going to live together in harmony. Right. And that really misses the nature of human beings right our heart.
The sin nature because that's not what we do. Typically, we because of greed and other things. We tend to move toward those things that make us more comfortable Beer, etc. and that's where he ultimately I think misses the understanding of human nature.
What I do in my book. Jim is I try to show people that back behind a lot of things.
Whether or not you're talking about race or you're talking about government cultural Marxism is in the background and the reason that it's important for people to understand that is to see the connectedness of events and what's happening. I want people to understand that critical race theory, and the idea of defunding the police for example are related because it gets back to this idea of oppression. You know the police are oppressive. If we take away the police.
Everybody's going to live in harmony. Open the jails because jails are oppressive.
So what you have in society is an application of Marxism and many people might not realize that and so there is an interrelation as we talk about it.
I hope we get to freedom of speech and such things as propaganda that I discuss in the book well and in broadly speaking, as we peel this onion were saying a revolution in American. I hadn't thought of it that way.
But it's a slow grinding revolution that you mention in your book that seeks to rewrite history and discard the Judeo-Christian values that really did make the nation. It's what the founders founded this nation upon how would you describe that movement in a wake-up call for the church to say that that revolution is underway. We just kind of been asleep at the switch. Well I think after the death of George Floyd.
Many of the demonstrations were about racism and Jim you and I might disagree about this but I think that they transition from issues of racism to issues of revolution and that of course becomes very important where you have the destruction of our monuments, but more seriously, even you have the destruction and the vilification of American history and what you have been taught in our universities today is that America began with some evil man with the evil motives and so the issues of our supposed Judeo-Christian inheritance have to be destroyed and of course it's destroyed because of racism in all of us remember and certainly we emphasize the fact that slavery was horrible.
It was so horrible that it ought to bring tears to everyone's eyes, but there's also some good things that should be said about America and what we should do is to emphasize how far we have come in living up to our ideals, but it would be wrong for us to simply say oh we have to begin again and the whole idea of the radical left is to say that at the end of this revolution.
On the other side there will be an end to racism an end to white supremacy income inequality and were going to bring in that socialistic Marxist ideal yeah and in the reality is, and I've seen it, I traveled to 70 countries, roughly half of focus. I was in Russia when Gorbachev was taken in the coup.
I was actually there. Setting up a trip for Dr. Dobson and others to come to the country and and meet heads of state, etc. and in that context, it's a failed system. I mean, when you talk to the people. The idea that Marxism or communism can deliver what people need it. It just does not in everywhere around the globe. You see that Dr. lutes whether that's Venezuela or whatever.
It just does not meet the needs of the people to bring the means of production and allow them products and goods that actually work. I remember being there and you know you had wait seven years for a car and we got cart barely ran the it's a ridiculous system and you know I don't know why in the United States. When we look at this. Why would be.
We want to be the last one in the ring of nations that will potentially go through this embrace of communism or socialism or some form of it mean what clownish activity. I mean, you have Europe already gone through it. Most of Eastern Europe is rejected it brushes rejected it. To me it's just buffoonery that the United States in the 21st-century, which I only need to try this socialism appears to be a winner. I mean, free college for you this free that it seems as if this is the way to go. The problem is, as Margaret Thatcher so accurately said that the problem was socialism is pretty soon you run out of other people's money.
What people need to realize in a socialist society and in a communist society. The money that you own or the money that you earn is not your own.
It doesn't belong to it belongs to the state so that it can be dished out in accordance with equity and equality. That's why socialists always talk about how wealth can be distributed.
They never talk about how it can be created because socialism cannot create wealth.
The only way socialism can survive is by a government that prints money to keep the ship afloat. So we must recognize that it is doomed to fail.
But my it appears to be so good. Yet that the promises are big but the delivery is thin.
It is an impossible delivery. Actually, how would you suggest that people view history and a more balanced way. I mean that what you're saying and what the other side. If I get saved in those terms with those who embrace socialism or communism are suggesting is that the current system is really bad there's always been a be bad in every system were imperfect people I and I think even with the founders when you look at it.
Of course they were imperfect people there were human beings.
They got some things wrong. Slavery is at the top of the list, but the irony of that when I had a person suggest to me when you look at it.
Slavery did not start in the United States. It was global. It went on for about 3000 years before the United States was ever created.
But the genius of what they created in the Constitution and I think they they knew this, but they knew they could not achieve it at the time. That's my supposition, but it only took 90 years to get the Abraham Lincoln from the, the writing of the Constitution. That's impressive. They took a 3000 year horrific industry and recognized it probably for political reasons they could not solve it in their day, but they set the groundwork up to the Constitution's Bill of Rights two ended in 90 years. That's impressive and to underline what you have just said today in the world.
There are about 40 million slaves, primarily in Africa and in India now one of the things that you will find like that 1619 project.
For example, they will never compare America to another country because if you ever compare America to another country. America is going to come off looking pretty good. You can't get people to hate America. If you compare America with other countries but of course there's a lot of room for growth.
There's a lot of room for change.
We aren't where we should be, but we're on our way and to vilify the past that somehow what you can do is now to build this brand-new future is foolishness and as you pointed out, it's been tried many times and it simply does not work. Moving to the First Amendment. Let me ask about this.
The First Amendment provides for freedom of speech and religion seems to be in jeopardy today even though it's right there. So the very things that are plainly written as protected freedoms for us are now in jeopardy what's the strategy in the current revolution as they began to chip away at those Judeo-Christian values to try and cancel or silence opposing views. I find this very interesting because in 1977. My wife and I lived in Skokie. One of the suburbs of Chicago and the neo-Nazis came to the suburban to demonstrate. Now you must understand that this was an area which she there were many Jews living people who had survived Hitler's concentration camps, so there was a lot of the interest there was a lot of opposition, but in those days.
Jim those were different days. The ACLU said no matter how offensive the speech is freedom of speech means freedom of speech. Now let's find out what's happening today in the 60s there was a Marxist by the name of Mark Cousy. Marcos often times is that the way in which his name is simply pronounced and he was committed to Marxism, but he says this as long as we have freedom of speech that capitalists are going to take advantage of it and the as a result, they're going to win the debate so there's only one way that socialism and communism can thrive and that is if we shut down freedom of speech and here again this is why Marxism is so important for us to understand what he was saying is that it is time for the overpriced to speak and the oppressors, namely that capitalists should be quiet so what you have today in our universities is the idea that only those who are all pressed should have freedom to speak. If you're a conservative urinal presser and you should be silent, and you should simply listen and by the way, if we hear something that offends us we have to retreat into a safe place so that we can lick the wounds of our unappreciated victimhood. So what you have and in the book. I quote Stanley Fish who says unapologetically a double standard has to be called for.
It is time for the oppressors to be quiet. The overpriced must speak and that's why there are so many limitations today regarding freedom of speech, and what's interesting to me is this. When a conservative wants to speak at a university and then it is discovered that he can't because of riots and so forth.
The University always comes up with a statement that says something like this.
We believe in freedom of speech. It is very important but and then what follows is all the reasons why they really don't believe in freedom of speech. After all, yet something like the safety of the students is paramount and therefore the office tomorrow is harmed by what comes to this do for his will in that regard. Let me ask about this at something that has swirled around my mind for quite some time. I remember visiting China and talking to Christians in China and hearing their heart about the one child policy, which thankfully the Chinese government has begun to relax that policy and that's a step in the right direction, but there was this top-down understanding of the man is oppressing us the government and I think by and large you know the Chinese people generally sought is that that you know this is what governments doing to a process that we can only have one child, etc. so it had that groundswell of discontent if I could set that way. The concern I have been in the United States is that shaming that you're talking about the silencing of people that have a contrary opinion that they have socialized that and I think that's far more dangerous because it's not coming from the man does not come in top down or we could agree the government is being heavy-handed. It's coming from neighbors from other people in the community that you can't speak out because you're saying things that offend them. It is quite different. I think you know the speech codes in the University they are not intended to elevate the debate they are actually intended to silence the debate you don't know what you can say or what you can say I point out that many students in our universities, Christian students, they will not be talked out of their faith, but they will be mocked out of their faith and because of the shaming that goes on that you referred to as a result of that oftentimes you have this self censoring attitude were you just retreat into silence, which is a victory for the other side really and you know in my book in every chapter. You might recognize this. I always at the end talk about the response of the church because that's really where my heart is ultimately what is the role of the church in the midst of a collapsing culture and I point out how unnecessary it is for us to be able to speak in a culture in which the person who shouts the loudest wins the argument we don't shout but we do have to speak and what we have to do is to be willing to take the consequences. Here in America were not used to that we always think that we should be able to speak and everyone should be tolerant, but today the issue is not tolerance its dominance by the radical left, but it's wrapped in that label of tolerance. Yes, of course, that's the ones that are asking for tolerance have become the most intolerant. Well, we just talked about some writers you know who denied should have freedom of speech but you know they did use freedom of speech to write their books about it. And so when I lie I have is this contradiction in these kinds of theories you know Dr. Luther, it's so good to she can openly talk about this.
I'm sure some people are going to be offended by us, but let me continue with the questions when you look at the radical left.
They believe it's you know that their actions that their direction is actually protecting people from harm by labeling others as hateful, racist or sexist as you said how could people be so blind to not understand what it is they're doing.
It seems so obvious to us what's going on now it's right out there on display in town square. But they don't see themselves. I think that you put it very well.
You know, Churchill is quoted as saying the desire to believe something is much more compelling than rational arguments, so what you have is today a desire driven culture. I desire something and so I turn away from rationality from argumentation from discussion and I go ahead with what I want to believe and that's of course exactly what is happening where there is a willful blindness to the fact that you are living with a contradiction that you are doing what you are denying that others should do and people just don't realize it. Yeah and you know I want to get down to some practical examples.
This is been hopefully interesting to people but it's impacting Christians on the ground in a just a few weeks ago we had that incident I think was in Portland where the NT figure came to prayer rally in damage the equipment threaten people sprayed him with pepper spray all those things were occurring. You have an example in the book about a church in Missouri called the crossing and there are many, many examples, but let's talk about that when what happened. I'm very glad to talk about that one because I have some first-hand knowledge about it at pastor preached a message on transgender is him.
He was very differential he mentioned the fact that there is some of you who may be confused about your gender, and we welcome you to Christ talk to us. We are here to help you to encourage you, but at the end of the day.
Genesis 127 says that he created them male and female right just a standard message that 10 years. Charlotte could have been preached in any absolutely church staff that night they were on the news they were vilified in the newspaper.
This church had raised over $400,000 to pay off hospital bills for people who couldn't afford it in the community and the community as a Beretta very actively involved and now suddenly people began to withdraw. There was a petition because the church was involved in some ministry and they said that you can't be involved anymore, and pretty soon there were a thousand signatures against the church and so forth. You know Jim, I just want to share my heart here throughout the years I was always told all of the church needs to make sure that it is known for what it is for and not for what it is against well, that's wonderful, but the fact is that if you are against something like same-sex marriage. For example, if you're against something all the things that you are for fall by the wayside.
Now this issue becomes paramount and you are vilified for what you believe. So pastors need to walk a very fine line here.
On the one hand, we have to be welcoming, but we cannot be affirming, but we always have to make sure that people who come to our churches, are invited to Christ they are invited to help but at the same time we have to draw the line and say here I stand, I cannot do otherwise. Let me give you an example, in Chicago, a public school teacher told me he was told it is not enough for you to simply tolerate same-sex marriage. If you don't celebrate it, you could lose your job.
Now that's a line in the sand he can say you know to some extent I can tolerate it but I cannot celebrate what God is condemned so let's think through clearly what the Bible teaches it says woe to those who call evil good, and that's what's happening in our culture.
Exec is only half the story. They are not finished until they take that which is good and call it evil, then the revolution is complete and that's where we are today in America where that which is good is being called evil, and what we must do is to stand against it and say we will not bow to the pressures of this culture. Dr. Luther, I mean this has my mind spinning and you know, for the folks that are get ready for work driving down the highway listening on YouTube. It is an opportunity to really better understand what's going on in the culture and that was the main reason I really wanted to talk to about your book, but we got more ground to cover and I want to come back next time with them more examples of where the cancel. Culture is paving a way to disaster. In our opinion, as believers, and then what does God expect of us in the church in this moment that the church is seen many things. Historically Rome in the Roman Empire and we can go on from there. But I'm looking forward to having you back and you do that, I'd be glad to. And I'm so glad that we are going to be emphasizing the role of the church and helping Christians think through where they should draw the line and stand for Christ and take the consequences. And consider it a badge of honor. Let's do it. Dr. Luther's great book is called. He will not be silent. Get a copy read it share the truth in there with others and I do hope you can donate to help us as we broadcast the hope of Christ to the world when it is so desperately needed for gift of any amount today will send a copy of that book is our thank you for joining the support team here at FOCUS are numbers 800 K in word family or look for all the details in the episode also learn more about our online Christian news.
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Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family I'm John Fuller inviting you back. As we continue the conversation with Dr. Luther and once more help you and your family thrive (