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That's focusonthefamily.com/slash get help. Yeah. Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we'll explore something a bit unusual, a do-it-yourself family building project. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.
That's right, John. You know, these home improvement shows are very popular today. Have you seen them? You can't avoid them. They're everywhere.
I'm trying to avoid them. I'm at my dentist's office and they're on. Right. Fixing up a place, you know, plumbing, it scares the daylights out of me, man. I'm telling you what.
I just can't do that stuff very well. Usually, Gene ends up showing me how to do it. That's very embarrassing to say on national radio. I'm trying. Duct tape is our savior.
Duct tape works great. You just put it everywhere. But those home improvement shows are very popular, and people love the idea of that perfect home, right? The fixer-upper that looks just right, putting all the pieces together. But it's intimidating, like I said.
When it comes to family improvement, I'm all in. That's what Focus on the Family is about. We want to build strong and healthy families. It's what we're trying to do each and every day here at Focus on the Family. And that's why I'm thrilled about our special guests who will help you today tackle this topic of home improvement.
Dr. Gary Chapman is here. He's been on this broadcast many times. Before. He's an award-winning author and speaker, a counselor, and radio host, and is probably best known for his series of books addressing the five love languages concept.
And also with us, Dr. Shannon Warden, who is a professor of counseling, an author, and a blogger. And she's been counseling families for more than 20 years. And together, they've written a book called The DIY Guide to Building a Family That Lasts: 12 Tools for Improving Your Home Life. And we've got details about that on the website.
Gary, welcome back. Thank you. Good to have you. Thank you. Yeah, Shannon, great to welcome you for the first time.
Thank you, Jim. Yeah, so good.
Okay, so where did you come up with this idea of a family building project? And what are you trying to, you know, to help families accomplish? It was Shannon's idea.
Okay, good. Even if it's unpopular, I do watch all those shows. That's funny. They do. There is something special about them.
I mean, we're wired. We want to do it better, right, when it comes to our homes. They're inspiring. It's like most anything, I think. We look at the other people doing it.
We think, we'll never get there. Those shows, though, have a way of making you think, yes, we can. And, you know, this man here has taught me a lot and just been a great mentor and friend of me in the area of family improvement and home life improvement. And it was just a natural fit. I said, what do you think about this idea?
He said, I love it. And we just took it from there.
Well, there's, you know, the analogy, I don't know how far you take that analogy. I would be really good at like tearing down the wall. I could do a lot with a sledgehammer. Frankly, that would be a lot of fun.
Now, to put it back together makes me really nervous. Does that indicate something?
Well, you know, I think in family life, you do have to get rid of some things. You're going to make it better.
So, you've got that's a part of it.
Now, you're speaking about it. Let this thing go so we can put something in its place.
Okay, you've identified 12 tools for improving family life.
Now, of course, you guys, we're not talking about the best plumbing and the kitchen redo. We're talking about your family, you know, your marriage, your kids, and how to do the best job you can do.
So, give us a quick overview of these 12 tools. We cover a lot of the basics that you would expect in family life. If you look at your family life today, even you're going to see how is it we're communicating with each other? How is it we're sharing responsibilities? How is it that we're having fun?
This man here obviously wrote the book and books on love languages. We talk about that. Just in your day-to-day, look around and you'd think, you know, what are those tools that we need? These are the tools we're writing on. Kindness, sharing, consideration, communication, love, fun, down the board.
Replacing grumbling with gratitude. That's good. That's good. Is that easy to do? We're going to spend extra time with you today, Jim.
I tend to be on the high side. It's just so funny. We had some water damage through our house and it peeled those window covers, window wells.
So it peeled one away. And I was out with this guy. Talking about how to get this repaired, and the guy says, Well, this is a DIY job. I went into Gene. I said, Hey, do you know what DIY means?
Because I didn't confess the guy. I didn't even know what do-it-yourself, the acronym meant. And that was only like six years ago.
Well, if we said, you know, because you'd be familiar with the expression, if you want something done well, you've got to do it. Pay somebody else to do it. John, cooperate, man. No, do it yourself.
Well, yeah, for the harder jobs, yes. Trust me, I can't do all of that. Yeah, that's your first point: the DIY, which I know now. Do it yourself. Why is that critical?
Well, I think because in a family, if the couple do not decide we want to have a better relationship between us and between our children, because we're dealing with children here, not just parents and not just the marriage, but improving the whole family life. But they have to be on board. They have to be all in. And then they bring the kids in because it has to be an all-in project if we're going to really make progress. And it is a good illustration because if you're going to redo your home, you've got to roll up your sleeves and you get in there and you do the fun things that we're talking about, right?
But with our marriages and with our parenting, we kind of expect it just to either come naturally or that we'll know what to do when it hits us. Often there's no game plan. And that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to give a game plan. If you really would like to have a better relationship in your family, and who wouldn't?
I mean, we're either getting better or worse. We're not standing still. Right. And most of us would like to have better family relationships.
So let's get a plan and then let's implement the plan. And so this book kind of gives them a plan on these basic areas. And we're excited about it because we think it's very practical. And couples can do it, you know. Not alone.
You've got to have God's help in the whole process. Absolutely. You speak very specifically about change taking time. You know, we're pretty impatient, too. We want that.
Well, frankly, I'd pay the guy to come in and do it. That's how impatient I am. Can you get the leak fixed like right now? Let's just pay Dr. Gary Chapman to come around the world and fix your homes.
I know it. Wouldn't that be great?
So that application to a family leak. How do we, as the adults in the home, as the parents, how do we step back and remain patient while these changes occur?
Well, as Dr. Chapman is saying, we've got to do it ourselves. I can't wait on my husband, Stephen. Stephen, you do it first, and then I will do it. He's a great husband, great dad, and he does take the lead in a lot of things.
But there are moments instead of blaming him, I need to look at Shannon. Shannon, what do I need to do in this area?
So I've got a DIY, then as Dr. Chapman, you're saying there, we've got a DIY together. And I like something else we need to, I think, reiterate there is these are affordable repairs. You know, you know, we bounce back and forth. Obviously, that's what the book is about.
Is the home life and the home improvement metaphor.
So we bounce back and forth from relationship to the metaphor of home improvement. But these are affordable fixes. You know, this is not, my relationships don't need to be 1995 relationships, and that means keeping up with our kids and how they're developing and continuing to nurture our marriage and reading and taking classes with this man right here, right, to keep us fresh and moving forward in our relationships.
Well, that's interesting, like the budget. Yeah. I mean, if you again, that metaphor, you have a budget for repairs. What's your budget for your family and improving your family? How do you explain a budget for that sort of thing?
Well, I think the budget basically involves time. You're going to have to give time. That's it. It won't just happen. We'll have to make some changes.
And in order to make changes, you have to stop doing some things so you can do other things. But what I really like about the whole thing is the big reveal. Right. That's it. You know, we at our home, in the last five years, we've remodeled two bathrooms.
Now, I didn't do it myself, okay? But I was still involved in the whole process. But man, When you get to see the big reveal, it is nice. Yeah, it looks really great. If you chose wisely.
If you chose wisely, right. And so I think if we can just realize that things can be better. And one of the things we suggest in the book is let every family member. Just share things that they would like to see improved in our family. Wow.
You know? Let the kids share. And what do we complain about in our family? Why do we either not think of that or we don't take time to solicit that kind of input? I mean, that's a brilliant idea.
I don't know anybody who's doing that, really. We're so busy. We're just going to go. And is it really just that? Going, going, and not thinking about things, you know?
And then I think also as parents, sometimes we feel like, well, we've got to have all the answers.
Well, we need to know what our kids are thinking, and they can tell us. Why do you guys argue so much? If we really let them know, what would you like to see different in our family? They'll tell you. Wow.
That's encouraging. You know, you've got 12. We're not going to be able to touch on all of these, but we'll touch on a few today and tomorrow. But let's start with the first one, selfishness, which, you know, yeah, that covers a lot of ground. Why is this selfishness, why is it so critical in families today?
So, it's my native instinct, my human instinct, I suppose, is to be self-centered, self-focused. And so, now there's not just me and my family of five, but there are four other people whose instinct, our sin nature, is to be self-centered, self-focused.
So, there, the five of us are trying to coexist, and as we're talking about here, busy, our minds on all sorts of other things, including that's my toy, or this is my side of the bathroom countertop, or that's your duty to wash the dishes and empty the dishwasher.
So, it really becomes a mine mentality, and that defeats a lot of the good relationship building that we're talking about here.
So, a conscious awareness of it, taking a little assessment: hey, where are we being selfish?
So, that's something you know a listener would want to do here: is you know, in someone who's reading the book, where am I being selfish? Just taking that account, that inventory, now noticing the family, and then Dr. Tamman, as you were saying, just being open to the conversation. Let's get to work on it.
Now, you kind of highlighted that shared bathroom issue. I was always careful to try to live in a place where we had enough bathroom space. Not always achieving that, but kind of give us that deeper example of the shared bathroom.
Well, what I'm thinking of here is just mine and Stephen as the leader of the family. How are we sharing our time with each other for one? How are we sharing who it is we are in this life together? I heard a lady at church, she was teaching recently, and she was talking about an eternity view of marriage. Instead of being focused on the now, which is a mine mentality, ultimately, how is this helping me?
How is this going to work out for me? She was talking about having an eternity focus on marriage and on relationship. And what is God doing in Stephen's life? What is it? Why did he bring us together?
Yeah, it was to bring these three kids into the world, but what else? How am I partnering with Stephen to accomplish God's goals and he with me? That at the root could be a selfishness issue if my heart, my mind, is all about me and not about Stephen.
So that is a little bit more of the deeper. It's not just the sharing of the sinks, but it's let's share the space in this life and make each other better.
Well, now I'm feeling convicted because when we Our house we're in now, I purposely looked for two sinks. Maybe I was avoiding hitting the selflessness effect. I just covered Gene, I'm sure. Yeah, I thought two sinks was a great solution.
Now we can both be selfish. I gotta tell you, I do like two sinks. I think, you know, there's a practical matter here as well. I don't want to sound like we're just using one, you know, small section as a family of five. But, you know, this whole thing of kindness.
I define kindness as words and actions that enhance the other person's life. Yes.
Well, selfishness is the opposite of that. You know, I'm right. I want my way. You know, rather than thinking in terms of how can I speak to them in a way that's gonna encourage them and help them. And if you listen to our expressions that are not kind.
Almost always they grow out of selfishness. You didn't do this, you didn't do that, or why did you do that, or why did you do that? From our perspective, they did wrong, and so we're giving them harsh words rather than kind words.
So, if we really care and want to enhance their lives, we try to speak words that are positive, that will encourage them. Fixing selfishness, which is the one topic we're talking about right now, it definitely takes time. You have a story about a couple named Jeremy and Laurie. who discover that their kids really engaged in the process. It's probably similar what you're saying, but what did Jeremy and Laurie encounter?
Well, I'm going to take this question because I didn't tell you about this, Dr. Tevin, but just in recent days, because I'm a busy mom, you know this, and I'm hustling around doing a lot of things, as a lot of moms can relate to, a lot of dads too, for that matter. But I kept promising, Resley kept saying, Mama, are you gonna play Barbies with me tonight? And I said, yes, I am.
Well, I got busy working on something. And I did, you know, a modified playing. Parents understand this. You know, you're kind of, in essence, tricking your kid. I'm not advocating this, but it was a little best of both.
It wasn't quite the full playing experience, but it was still playing.
Well, so the next night I had told her, Presley, we are definitely going to play Barbie's tonight. And we didn't quite get to it again. And she said, Mama.
Now, some people are going to cringe when I say this. You're going to think, oh, you better discipline that child. But because of the Jeremy and Lori story, and because of what we're talking about here in the DIY guide. Presley said, Mamma, I think you're lying to me. Ouch.
I mean, that hurts. And it's the truth.
Some parents would kind of recoil at that and say, oh, no, you won't call me a liar. But it was the truth. And because we've made an open conversation of home life improvement in our home, I could receive that. And then I said, Presley, you know what? You're right.
And I'm sorry. Yeah. And uh which we talk about apology in the book as well. But uh she called me on it and I received it because I want her to see in me the model that God is putting forth. One that says, I hear you and I'm responding.
So what did happen to Jeremy and Laurie? Similar, right? Similar. They had to say to their kids, We're going to start making an effort here around selfishness and around consideration of each other, right?
So the parents, again, they're taking the lead. They're DIYing. They're doing it themselves. And they're saying now to the children, we're going to do this all in, all together. What did that do?
That opened up conversation. The kids started pointing out, hey, I feel like you're being a little disrespectful here, a little inconsiderate, calling them on it. And Jeremy and Lori, they responded appropriately and went to work, made some changes. That's what we're doing. We're noticing what's not working in the home, where are there some breakdowns?
Let's not just notice it, let's do something about it. See, parents would not do this normally, ask their children to give them feedback. Correct. But if you're working on the project together and you realize this is a part of what we're doing now, so we want you to call us out and we're going to call you out because we want to change this. And that's what this couple did.
Is it ever too late to invoke this? What about if you have 50? 15, 16, 17-year-olds in the home. Listen, they can be really helpful and they will be always honest. Jim, if I can jump in here.
So, our youngest is 16, and he just recently had a very open conversation with us, and he called us on a couple of things. He said, I think you're keeping secrets from me. And we were able to talk to him about that, and just to, he was thinking about it is the point.
So, I think kids have already got the narrative going in their heads. Asking them to speak into it allows them to kind of unpack that and not take it a direction that's unhealthy. Another chapter you had was on apathy. That one kind of caught me by surprise in terms of how families may struggle with apathy.
So, define apathy: why is it a concern and where does it come from? Apathy for us is a taking each other for granted as we especially focus on love, loving each other in that particular tool or chapter. It's so easy. Just you need only ask your spouse Do you think I'm paying attention to you? Do you think I'm right?
Just ask. If you want the real answer. That's true of the kids too. Yeah. Oh, goodness.
Yeah. My kids they let me know. And I know Mama, is your phone more important than me? Yeah. You're so verbal.
You're so verbal. Go to your room. All right. I'm going to my room and I'm going to sit and think about that for a little bit. Gary, your solution for apathy is your five love languages, that concept, which is brilliant, by the way.
For those who aren't familiar with it, give us the quick rundown. I can't believe someone has not heard of the five love languages.
Well, basically, there are five ways of expressing love on an emotional level. And if you want to build intimacy in a relationship and a real sense of connectedness and a real sense of we love each other, which is the opposite of apathy, then each of your family members has a primary love language. And here are the five. Words of affirmation. You really look nice in that outfit.
I really appreciate what you did. Just looking for things that you can compliment the other person on. Receiving gifts, it's universal to give gifts as an expression of love, the gifts as they were thinking about me. And it doesn't have to be something expensive. You can pick up a feather.
Taking a walk, a A bird feather and take it home and say to your spouse, Honey, look what I found when I was walking. It reminded me, You are the wind beneath my wings, girl. You're good. Whoa! Didn't cost a thing.
Gifts. And then there's quality time, giving the person your undivided attention. And this is true with marriage, this is true with children. This is what you were talking about, Shannon, when you said, you know, playing, was it dolls? Barbies, yeah.
Playing with your daughter. And she realized you weren't all there.
So quality time means you give them your undivided attention and then acts of service. is doing something for the other person that you know they would like for you to do. For the family, it might be washing dishes, it might be making beds and all those kind of things. And remember, children have things to do appropriate to their age in the family because we all have jobs. And so we're doing things for each other, acts of service.
And then physical touch. And we've long known the power of physical touch. That's why we pick up babies and hold them and kiss them and cuddle them. And the baby feels love before they even know what love is all about. I remember preparing for a broadcast with you years ago.
And I think my youngest Troy was probably four or five. And I remember going through, I was reading the material, and he was in my lap. And I just asked him, you know, which one of these meets your needs? And I went through him. As soon as I said physical touch, he said, that's me, Daddy.
That's the one I like. Yeah. Just hugs. He loves hugs and tickling his arm and just that kind of stuff. You can discover a child's love language by the time they're four years old.
At least by the time they're four. My son's love language is physical touch. When he was that age, I'd come home in the afternoon. He'd run to the door, grab my leg, and climb on it. That's right.
He's touching me because he wants to be touched. Our daughter never did that. At that age, she would say, Daddy, come to my room. I want to show you something. She wants equality time.
So the idea is that every family member has a primary language, and you want to speak that language. Fluently, and then you want to sprinkle in the other four. And again, to the whole point, it takes effort. Effort. And you can't knock down a wall, you can't redo your kitchen in the same way.
You've got to spend time knowing what your love language and your kids' love languages are, and your spouse. Let's examine another one: resentment in a marriage and family. That's a serious one, and some of these have been fun, but in fact, you compare that to having termites in your home, just to keep that analogy going. Why is resentment such a serious problem? I think because what happens is when we hurt the other person or they disappoint us.
And we don't deal with it. We just hold it inside. and then we come to resent them because they they did that to us. Or maybe we even lash out at them and tell them how horrible it is that they did, and they don't apologize or anything. And so we resent it, and resentment turns to bitterness, and bitterness turns to hatred.
And eventually we get to the place where we say, I'm out of here.
So, you know, dealing with issues when they happen. That's why I say apologizing and forgiving is absolutely essential to a healthy marriage. We can't just let things ride. We've got to deal with them. In fact, I love the saying you had in the book, Gary.
You said a happy marriage is the union of two good forgivers. And that is such a poignant sentence. Because, you know, if we let it build up, it gets worse and worse and worse. And eventually we figure, you know, I can't take this anymore. But you tend to forgive less and less.
Yeah, you do. When resentment builds up. And we're not by nature apologizers. Because again, by nature, we're selfish in our ways the right way. They're the ones that are wrong.
They ought to be apologizing. And I said a lady said to me, she said, Dr. Chapman, I understand about apologizing, but what if he's the problem? You know? I said, okay, let's assume he's 95% of the problem.
That would only leave five percent for you. Apologize for your 5%, you know, and let's see what happens. Apologize and then love him in his love language. And maybe something will happen inside of him. Yeah.
And what's the end of the story there?
Well, what happens is, you know, we love God because God first loved us.
So we love them by apologizing and loving them, even though they're not loving us. But love stimulates love.
So she's influencing him in the best possible way. I think in the Christian space, especially, we have neglected this. I mean, we talk about loving our neighbor as ourselves, as Jesus commanded us to do. This is one of the reasons we're not very effective, and the Holy Spirit can't really work through us because we're wagging our finger and we're building up resentment toward others who don't think like us, behave like us, believe like us, right? And it's one of the core problems, I think, because love does crack the heart open of the other person.
It's an amazing tool. Shannon, you have a three-step plan, you call it, for forgiveness. Let's hear it quick because we need some forgiveness.
Well, obviously, you're going to have to acknowledge that there is this need there, right?
So that's that cracking through the wall or doing the demolition we were talking about earlier. You know, let's just acknowledge this is happening. It's also, as Dr. Chapman is saying there, it's just taking some accountability. And then it's kind of a continuing to monitor that.
Process, that same process. I talk a lot in my counseling to folks about humility. and compassion, And this takes great humility.
Somehow or another, in our humanness and in our sinfulness, we think, I'm going to be this same house, if you will, this same person from now until whenever. And I think, even back to the whole metaphor here, you know, some people think, I'm going to build this house and never have to change it. I'm going to die in this house. And yet, there's so many changes. That's not the God we serve.
He's somebody who's changing us for the better all of the time. It requires humility, requires us to say, God, change me from the inside out. Change me. Same in this process of resentment and forgiveness: hey, We've got to change. I'm willing to do my part.
I'm not going to make you do your part, but I want you to know I'm willing to do my part. And we just, we've got to start somewhere. We've got to get the process going. But it's honestly just a matter of humility, of awareness, and then just actually doing something, not expecting this is going to happen by itself, that we're actually going to have to put a little sweat equity into it. Yeah, it's so good.
I mean, both of you, Gary and Shannon, this book is filled with wonderful, rich content. And I love your encouragement and advice. I love the metaphor to do the home improvement project. Unfortunately, we're out of time. We're already hit day one.
So I want to come back next time and share more of the 12. We've only covered three, so we've barely made any headway, but it's been really insightful. I mean, I'm thinking, John, about going home tonight with Gene and Troy. Trent's in his own place now, but I'd love to sit down and talk to them about doing more of this. That's why I was kind of asking for a friend of mine.
How late can you do this? But I think it's really valuable to open communication up. And so often we do let time kind of knock down the more important things in our relationship, like honesty, humility, like you both said. And I'm eager to do it. I want to do it.
And for our listeners, let me recommend to you that you get a copy of the DIY guide. And for the slow folks like me a few months ago, that's do-it-yourself, that do-it-yourself guide to building a family that lasts. I mean, it's easy to use. It kind of focuses you on that blueprint, the plan for how to do this well. And let me tell you, we believe in this content so much.
If you'll make a monthly pledge of any amount to focus on the family, we'll send you this book as our way of saying thank you. We really need more monthly partners who will stand with us financially so that together we can meet the ongoing needs of families who contact us. According to our research, over the past 12 months, we've helped, you've helped, more than 360,000 moms and dads improve. Their parenting skills, build closer bonds within their family, and pass on their faith to their children. That is great news, and I'm so thankful for the generosity of our donors who help support the ministry.
You can be a part of our family-building team. We'll provide the labor, and you provide the resources we need to construct healthy and godly families like we've talked about today.
So, a monthly pledge will be great, or a one-time gift, whatever you can afford. Everything helps. Yeah, join the support team today with your gift and get Dr. Chapman and Shannon Warden's book when you call 800, the letter A in the word family. Or donate when you click the link in the show notes.
Gary and Shannon, let's come back next time to continue the conversation. We still need to hit topics like building trust, letting go of control. Did I say that? Letting go of control. Man, why didn't we do that on day two?
We should have covered that today. And having really more fun together, which is great as a family. Can we do it? I'd love to. All right.
Well, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as the conversation continues and we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Chat GPT and AI can offer you ideas and attempt to give you answers, but it can't listen with compassion, pray with you, or guide you with wisdom shaped by faith. When life feels overwhelming, real human connection matters. At Focus on the Family, we believe in the power of professional help and biblical wisdom.
That's why we offer a free confidential consultation with a caring Christian counselor to walk with you through life struggles. Whether you're navigating challenges in marriage, parenting, anxiety, grief, or something else, our counselors are here to help. If you're hurting, don't wait. Hope is real and healing begins with a conversation. Request your free confidential consultation today.
Call 1-800-AFAMILY. That's 1-800-232-6459 or visit Focus on the Family. family.com slash get help that's focusonthefamily.com slash get help
