When Revival Fires Die

Revival is one of the most common things that we as Christians in America pray for. But what do we do when the revival fires die? Welcome to the conversation. Coming up on this episode of the Cleare Today Show. You're listening to Clearview Today with Dr.

Abadan Shah, the daily show that engages mind and heart for the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm Ryan Hill. I'm John Galantis. Welcome to the Clearview Today Show. We're so glad you're joining us here, especially if today's your first day.

We want to say welcome. We're going to let you know exactly who's talking to you. Dr. Shah, it's good to see you. It's good to see you as well.

Amen. Amen. We've been going through Nehemiah. We've been talking about leadership. We've been talking about how to handle everything that happens when opposition comes your way.

But today we're talking about something that Christians love talking about because it's an easy topic, right? Revival. Right, right, right. And these episodes have been so impactful, so transformative for us. And we want you to stay up to date with all these episodes as well as any future content coming out.

So make sure you head over to AbaddonShah.com and join the mailing list. Enter your email address on that mailing list. We've got a gift for you if you do. Free gift.

So make sure that you join the mailing list today so you can stay up to date with all of this content. But, Dr. Shah, revival, is this a lost cause in America? Yeah.

Well, we need to always remember that no matter how good a work is at the moment, no matter how successful that ministry is, it will go downhill. When I say go downhill, it doesn't mean it's going to go corrupt or immoral or illegal. It just. The fire will die out. And so you have to keep.

the fire burning. You have to keep fanning the flame. We see that in Nehemiah. And that's why I think the book of Nehemiah, in fact, the Bible is the word of God, because. It could have left it on a high note that people finished the wall, it was wonderful, everybody celebrated, and then they lived happily ever after.

But it doesn't end there. Right. It ends sort of. Almost anticlimactic that after Nehemiah finishes the wall. It tells us that he had finished his 12-year term in Jerusalem.

I mean, he was there 12 years. A long time, right? The wall took only fifty-two days, but he was there twelve years. Wow. That's a long time.

You would you would think A decade and two years. That's enough time to establish the minds of the people, the hearts of the people, get some traditions in place. You know what the standard is now. You know what is expected. You know what the vision is.

A lot has been done to flesh things out, to clear things, to make sure everybody's on the same. It's a well-oiled machine. Yeah, I'm imagining. I don't know why this thought came to me, but I'm imagining like the king of Persia getting a letter from Nehemiah 52 days later, like, Your Majesty, we did it. The wall is complete.

Cut to 12 years later, and he's like. I reckon he'll be making his way back.

Well, he pay now. But he was the governor.

So he had that. And maybe he had made some trips back home. I don't know for sure. But. The Bible doesn't say it's I would assume that he stayed in Jerusalem the whole time.

Yeah.

Twelve years That's a long time. I mean, I think back to When we first came to this town, this is in 1998, but I came as a pastor in 99, moved into the parsonage, and then. In twenty twelve we sold that house The parsonage, the church sold the parsonage, and we moved to, we purchased the home where we live in now. 2012.

So 2000.

So think about it, from 1999 to 2012, how many years is that? Uh thirteen? Thirteen years. That's a long time. When we came there, our second one was just a baby.

Just a baby. And then. When we left there in 2012, I mean, she was a, you know, 15-year-old.

So, I mean, it's a long time. Both our boys were born there. Our family grew, expanded.

So many things happened. 12 years is a long time. That's true. Long time. And our church also had grown in that season where we left that old building, moved to another building, and then we began to grow.

And then we purchased where we are now. I mean, it's so much. Had passed.

Now, you guys have been here just about. I've been here, yeah, 13 years. 13 years, yeah. 12 years for me. 12 years.

Yeah.

So imagine the day you first stepped Onto this campus to today. He would have been there. Like Nehemiah, whoever's there, he's at that place the whole time. You don't know a land without him. I mean, how does it feel to you?

How do the 12 years look like? Man, 12 years it feels like a long time, but in other ways it feels like. It's been like this. It's been like a blank.

So I think back to 12 years ago, kind of where we were, what we were doing, how I was learning, and where my family was. And it. At some points, it feels like a different lifetime. Like this was way long ago. But in other ways, it's like it was yesterday.

No time has passed. Yeah.

But think about it. You have a family of five, five kids, and you and Elizabeth. They have grown. Yes. When you came here, you were a single guy.

I was single. Yeah.

I was 20. No, 21. 21. 21. Yeah.

I was 20. Think about that. To me, though, it does feel like a long time. I mean, it feels like long enough to where this church is part of my life. You know what I'm saying?

It's like.

Sort of like when you're a kid, you're in school for a long time. School is just a normal part of life. Mm-hmm. And then you grow up and you're like, okay, I'm not really in school anymore. That's how Clearview feels.

It feels like there wasn't, even though I know there was, it does feel like it's hard to remember a time before it. I feel the same way. It's hard to remember a time before. Yeah.

So, I mean, the reason we're going over this, I know the listeners and viewers are wondering where are we going with this. We're trying to look at how long 12 years is. It's a long time. And you would think that the people were now On the straight and narrow, they knew where they were going, things had been established, people had the same mindset. Nehemiah goes back to Persia.

for just a year. Maybe he went back home to Be with his family. Maybe he went back home to once again tell the king, Hey, I am I am I'm still your loyal servant, thank you. Maybe he took gifts back home. To the king and say, you know, thank you for allowing us to do this.

It's been twelve years there, and man, we have really turned the you know, changed the face of that place. It is wonderful. People are happy, they're loyal subjects to you. And Great. A year later, he comes back, comes back to Jerusalem.

And Everything is over. The report is not good. We are not in a good place.

So the priesthood. had become corrupt. the people had neglected to pay the Levites. And they had to leave the temple and go back to the fields. Means the staff had to leave and go back to the fields.

The people had forgotten the Sabbath. I mean, this is like the bare minimum. Like, we come together and meet. He couldn't turn his back for five minutes, he couldn't run to the store to get milk. I was here for 12 years, and I'm gone for one, and it's not good.

And they stopped meeting. Wow. Hey, this is Sunday. Are we going to church?

Now, keep in mind, this is Sabbath. These are the people of Israel, the Jewish people.

So they met on Saturday, but nonetheless. They're just like, I'm I'm good. Yeah.

Why are we going to do that? Nehemiah is gone. And once again, mingling with the pagans. Intermarrying with the enemies of Israel. In short, they were spiritually back to where they were before the revival in Nehemiah chapter 9.

This feels like that moment when you, as a parent, tell your kids, Do not touch this, do not mess with this. I'm going to go in the other room and I'll be right back. You're gone for five minutes. You walk back in, it's destroyed. As always, Dr.

Shah, it's very easy to sit here and, like, even for the listeners, for us, whoever, to look at the people of Israel and say, You silly, you just guys can't get it right. Y'all just don't know what you're doing. But this is the story of us. Oh, man. People, your church can be on Cloud Nine, reaching people.

Fellowship is strong. Bible study is strong. Listening to the word of God preached on Sunday morning by your pastor or Saturday night. I mean, man, people are locked in, taking notes. Lives are being changed.

Friends and family are being invited. Baptism, all that. Oh, it's wonderful. God is moving. We are a light into our community.

We are standing up for biblical values. Summer. Yeah, that's it. That's it. They go on.

What happened? I dare y'all try to staff a volunteer in the stomach. You can't. Try to staff an event with volunteers in the stump. You try it.

You won't do it. You try it. Worship team leaders. You'll try to. Hey, I'm out of town.

What? I'm out of town. For the fork for just for this weekend or? I'm going to be out of time. I just checked Planning Center.

It says you're going for July. I'll be out of time. You know, William Booth, who was the founder of Salvation Army, said it this way: He said, It is the nature of a fire to go out. You must keep it stirred and fed and the ashes removed. I mean, this is a great show, by the way, for not just those who are listening and viewing us.

But for us sitting in this room right now, it is the nature of the fire to go out. You can never get to a place where you go, it's good, man, it's rocking and rolling, and we are on a good trajectory. No, you're actually on the downward. Any single moment you stop. Stirring the fire.

You say, Well, are you telling me that you have to do all the work? No, it is still God's work. It is still because of the grace and the power and the hand of God upon you, but you have to very actively and full of passion work towards that ministry. I don't know if you remember this, Dr. Shah.

I'm sure you do. There was a sound engineer who used to be here at our church years and years and years ago. And this person was really obsessed with getting the levels in the room just right so that he could save it and never touch the board. He didn't want to actually mix sound on a Sunday, he just wanted it to be perfect and then, like, that's it. It's like, what?

So, you don't want to mix the worship? I want to mix it once.

So you just want it. It doesn't work like that. Yeah, you want to just, but I think that there's a lot of people who treat their ministries the same way. Oh, yeah. Let's get this right and then don't ever touch it.

It doesn't work like that. Human nature is such that it will revert back to square one. It is human nature. As William Booth said, it so well: it is the nature of the fire to go out.

So look At ministry, church, you know, your spiritual life as a wood fireplace, not a gas log one, because that imagery doesn't work here. Like a wood fireplace, what's going to happen when the wood is burning and you're throwing more logs on the fire? Man, it is blazing. It's nice and warm. Oh, we're so cozy.

Everybody's tired, maybe it's Thanksgiving, maybe it's Christmas meal, and you're all sleeping. We're out about 10:30, 11. Again, I'm talking about a wood fireplace, not a gas log. What's going to happen? The fire starts to go out.

Hey, somebody put more fire or put more logs on the fire. We got to go out and chop some. Yeah, check it out. Or pick it up from the porch. Or it's there, but you got to drop it on the fireplace.

That's right. And get some ashes out of there. Yep. Yeah.

And it's the same as our ministries doctor show. Why do ministries die? Like, what is it that is. Or, what is it that can contribute to the fire of ministry going out?

Well, there are several things that we find right here in the book of Nehemiah. And I think it would be great if we just walked through this. Yeah, let's do it. And they can even talk about it based on my experience, your experience. And I'm sure the listeners and the viewers have their experiences in this.

But one reason The fire dies out when it comes to ministry or church or our spiritual life. is that we Are naive enough to think that the enemy is no longer there. We are foolish enough to believe that Oh, we're on the On the up and up? Mm-hmm. And as long as we don't touch it, like the guy who was mixing sound, as long as I don't touch it and nobody touches it.

The sound dynamics are not going to change. People in this room are about the same number.

Some may sit here, there, there may be different empty spaces, but overall. Same people up on the stage. Nothing changes. And Maybe, maybe in some ways There is some truth in it. But Even in that That building that church building.

There were other factors. I don't know, the weather. Yeah, absolutely. I'm not sure. Maybe these instruments have been touched with and have been tuned differently.

Maybe the person singing has a cold. I mean, there's so many factors. The combination of people say so many things can happen that change everything. That's right. There's a reason that you're there to mix it.

You're not there to just facilitate it. I think, you know, speaking personally, I can tell you that most of the mistakes that I've made in ministry here at Clearview were not like this is actively something that I did wrong. Rather, it was what you said, Dr. Shah, it was naivety to not see the things that are coming in. To just say, hey, we had our meeting.

We had our annual workshop. I did a devotion on Thursday.

So it should be good. We're good to go. I think we're all in a great place. Yeah.

And thinking that, you know, just because a person is in a good place at one point, they're going to stay in that good place forever. They're just going to, that you said it once and forget it perpetually with your volunteers. It just, people don't work that way. Ministries don't work that way. Even more so when it comes to ministries and churches and spiritual life is because we have an active enemy.

In that church building, I don't know if there's an active enemy. I mean, the air the air condition system versus the heat system. Maybe that will change some things. Maybe just the climate might. impact the instruments But There is so much more when it comes to our spiritual life.

That's right. We have a person, and that person is Satan himself. who is trying to sabotage our church, our ministry and our spiritual life. We have a very active, persistent, hateful enemy who has one person purpose and which is to destroy us. That's exactly what happens here in Nehemiah chapter 13.

In verse 4. Uh What happens, he says now, before this. Eliashib the priest, having authority over the storerooms of the house of our God, was allied with Tobiah. Where have we heard about Tobiah? I thought we were done with this.

I thought he was gone, man. Trio of Terror. That's right. You remember the Trio of Terror? There was Sandballot.

Tobiah and Geshem. This tobacco somehow is in cahoots with This guy, Eliashib, the priest. How in the world? The priest? I mean.

It blows my mind. Tobiah was the governor of Ammon to the east of Jerusalem, like what would be modern-day Jordan. When Nehemiah first came to help the people rebuild the walls around Jerusalem, he was part of the group that mocked Nehemiah. They questioned his motives, they threatened him. Tobiah was one of the leaders there.

And in Nehemiah 2, verse 19, it tells us that they were mocking them. They were telling them, What is this thing that you're going to do? Will you rebel against the king? Means they were saying that we're going to tell the king about on you, and the king is going to come and deal with you. They were lying.

No, it's Tobiah, the one that was sort of on the inside, he had like the Hebrew name. Was that him? Yes, that was him. Yahweh is good. Wow.

The false, like the false insider. I think we made an episode on him. Yeah, and he's the one who said, whatever they build, if even a fox was to go upon it, he will break down their stone wall. I mean, he was really trying to discourage them. Just a hater.

So How did Nehemiah deal with Tobiah? If you remember back in the early chapters of Nehemiah, He said The God of heaven himself will prosper us. Therefore, we, his servants, will arise and build, but you have no heritage or memorial in Jerusalem. Wow, Mike dropped me. Shut him down real fast.

You have no part in this? Yeah.

You stay there. We're going to keep doing what God wants us to do. That's right. Which is especially powerful considering that, you know, Tobiah, we've said it because of his name, was something of an insider. He had some sort of connection to the people more so than Sam Ballad or Gesham did.

That's the leadership principle there, right? Because when you are in a project like that and the revival fires are stirring and they're being, you know, the enemy is going to send someone to try to, it's not just that they die.

Sometimes people come to try to put them out. Yeah.

And later on, as the project was moving forward, Tobiah actively tried to sabotage them. He said there were letters sentimental. To the people by Tobiah, trying to intimidate them, trying to frighten Nehemiah. He was a wicked man. I mean, he was pretending to be spiritual.

He did everything. to sabotage the vision of God's people. Everything. I mean, that's a picture of Satan. Yeah.

And what do we find here in Nehemiah chapter 13, verse 4? That Elieshib the high priest was allied with. To buy out. And listen to verse 5. And he had prepared for him a large room where previously they had stored the grain offerings, the frankincense, the articles, the tithes of grain, the new wine, and oil, which were commanded to be given to the Levites and singers and gatekeepers and the offerings for the priests.

Now, he couldn't have put this dude up in a holiday inn or something. Hotel Six, a a best western something he's taken space away from the places that were reserved for offerings, the places were reserved for worship, and giving it to this enemy of God's people. Yeah, gave him a his personal little I don't know, Penthouse office. What do we do? How do we store the offerings?

How do we store the implements for worship? How do we worry about that? Don't worry about that. We're not going to use that right now. I mean, how is God going to use those offerings?

Does God eat that grain?

Well, it's for the Levites and Abbott. You know what? They need to work. How interesting is that? They don't do a real job.

They're in real job. The priests and the Levites, they don't do that's sometimes people think that people in church, like staff members and pastors, they don't have a real job. And it's an old problem. It's an old, old problem. That's right.

And we see that right here. We have the advantage of reading this story. 2500 something years later, we know that Tobiah is the villain. We know how the story ends. But, Dr.

Shah, the Tobiah is in our lives, in our ministries, the Tobiah is in our churches. How do we root them out? I mean, it's hard to do that. You have to actively Okay. be aware of their presence.

never think for a moment that they are done? They're never done. They will keep coming and keep coming and keep coming and keep coming. You have to you cannot you cannot be in ministry and be naive. Christianity in the West, in America, is suffering because we have naive staff members and pastors.

You cannot afford to do that. You have to be strong. You have to be courageous. Like Joshua. You have to be always ready.

You have to be fearless, but at the same time, very aware of what's happening.

So I'm not suggesting that you need to be paranoid and constantly look over your shoulders thinking somebody's out to get you. No. Don't be afraid. But be aware. That's right.

Do you want to tell that story about the guy who held like special little Bible studies in his house when you were in India growing up? You know, you remember that. Oh, yeah, yeah, you remember that, huh? Yeah.

Well, I remember that story because on its surface, I think this is, maybe you can speak to this. Maybe this is how the Tobias operate. They seem very spiritual. I just want to hold a special Bible study in my house.

Now, you're not going to dare say anything about that.

So, yeah.

So, my dad, great pastor, great preacher. came to this small little church. To the east of Bombay, about seven hours by train. And this. Place where he came to Was a railway junction, which means people from all over the country came to work there because of the railways.

And it's not just the tracks, they didn't just come to run the trains, there were other things. There was a school there. For the employees of the railways. There was a hospital there for them. There was.

You know, playground there. I mean, there's so many things. It's like a city. And so a lot of people came there. My dad being from the south.

in the western part of the country He was a transplant.

So he had a heart for the transplants For people who were moving there from elsewhere.

So he always tried to reach out to them. And they connected with him because they were not from there. He was not from there, so it was like Okay, and he knew their language because most of the ones who came. We're from the South. Not all of them.

But the south of India. And so he brought them together, those who were Christians, and he reached some who were lost and shared the gospel, and they got saved. Uh So, anyways, he got them together and he started another service for them.

So, Sunday morning, there was the 8:30 service and then there was a 10:30 service. The 8:30 service was for. these transplants. It was the English speaking congregation. 'Cause English was the most common language in which people from south and east and north and west could come and worship.

And then the ten thirty was more for the local language, Hindi. Or the national language. Anyways, But there was this one gentleman in the 830 congregation. He was a high ranking official in the railways. Powerful guy, very smart.

Very efficient. I mean, give him something to do. He will take it to another level, and it will be top-notch. I mean, top-notch. And so, with that.

He got a lot of promotions. And he rose to power. I mean, so very powerful person. And He was a Christian. But he was more of the The kind of like the high church Orthodox type person.

But then coming under my dad's preaching, He understood the value of the Christian life and the growth and the real personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

So he began to grow. And I mean, that was great. Instead of keeping You know, the fire going and reaching more people, bringing them to church. He was like, I can do what Pastor Shaw over there does. I am just as smart.

Look at what I do. Monday through Saturday. I could be doing that. And so He often tried to take that leadership position in church. And my dad didn't have a problem with that.

He would allow him to speak time to time. But what he began to do was he began to hold these Bible studies in his home. Using my dad's messages. From Sunday morning. None of that is a problem.

Right. Because that's great, you're using the messages to reach more people. No. He used those same messages To tell people that he knows more than Reverend Shaw. There it is.

And that they need to come to him more than going to the church. Golly. Or go to the church, but also come to this because this is where it really happens. This is where we really get into the word. Is it fair to say that not everybody who does that is a tobaya?

But that is the method that the tobacco is. That's tobaya behavior. Yeah.

Yeah, in a way, yes. It could very well be. Yeah.

And so, but I talked to him a few times: like, what are you doing? Oh, no, no, no, I'm trying to meet people where you cannot meet them. And so he began this whole thing.

So what did my dad do? He's like, Fine, go for it. And a few people would show up to his special meetings and all that. But it was just a disaster. Mm-hmm.

'Cause that's that's the wrong spirit. Talk about that, man. Because I think there are people, there are ministers, there are pastors who are hearing that and they're saying, wait. I see that happening in my church. I never thought there was ill intent behind it, but maybe the reason that the revival fire in my ministry is dying is because I'm allowing some of these people to put it out.

Yeah, and you have to be careful. I mean, my dad could not go and shut down his home Bible study. I mean, that's only going to make him look bad, my dad look bad.

So. What can you do? You have to stay focused on what you're doing And continue doing what God has called you to do. You have to protect what you have. Don't get involved in these skirmishes and fightings, and I'm better than them, and they're not as good as me.

None of that is necessary. You stay focused, guard what you have, and keep reaching the lost. That's right. That's right. That's all you can do.

That's right. That's the mission. Stay focused, guard what you have, and keep reaching the lost. I mean, if we operate with that kind of intensity and that kind of tenacity, I mean, I think that churches in America would look very different. That's right.

And God is working revival fires in your ministries. God is doing something in every single church. He's not only working, he's working in your church. But the purpose of this show is to give you the wisdom to navigate it, to keep that fire stoked. The enemies of God, and you know, we think that there's no enemies.

We have absolutely enemies in our congregations, and they're going to do everything they can. But the whole purpose of Clearview Today is to give you the tools and give you the wisdom that God has given us and that God has given Dr. Shah. Man, what a great blessing to keep those fires going as much as possible. That's right.

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