Your marriage can be healed. A hope-restored marriage-intensive from focus on the family can transform you and your spouse's relationship in just a few days. We'll go to this thing, but this is it. If this doesn't work, we're done. What we have now, it's way more than we ever had before and that I ever even dreamed of in the marriage.
Discover more at hoperestored.com. That's hoperestored.com. Where God resides, where his heart beats the loudest, is not in those easy, comfortable places.
So, if you want to hear God's heartbeat more fully, understand him more fully, and sit in the worth and value of Life and humanity, then you have to be willing to step into those hard places. You can have easy, that's fine, but you're missing out on the heartbeat of God if you do that. A rather profound statement from Heather Avis. She's a mom and an advocate who wants to help you and me rethink what a normal family looks like. Heather and her husband Josh are on today's Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
I'm John Fuller and we are glad you've joined us. We're going to share the remarkable story of this husband and wife who had a plan for their future family. But you know what? God will do with a plan, right? And God gave Heather and Josh His heart for needy children who are often unwanted in our culture.
And in the United States alone, there are an estimated 343,000 children in foster care. Just think of that number: kids who need safe, healthy, and godly homes. A significant portion of those children are legal orphans because the parental rights, for whatever reason, have been terminated by the court. And those kids really do need a family. They're just out there in a community of foster kids.
This is a wonderful opportunity for the Christian community to step up and help these children. As you hear Heather and Josh's story today, I hope you'll consider what God might be calling you to do to help orphans or to come alongside foster and adoptive families who need support. Yeah, and just hearkening back to what Heather said there in that clip: step into the hard places.
Now, we've got ways you can do that. We've got ways to make a difference through our Wait No More program, as it's called here in the U.S., Waiting to Belong in Canada. Check those out and see how you can wrap around a family.
Now, Heather has also written a wonderful book about the journey that she and Josh have had in foster care and adoption. It's called The Lucky Few: Finding God's Best in the Most Unlikely Places. Look for the resources we've talked about here at our website. The links are in the notes.
Now, the conversation that we have for you today was recorded with Heather and Josh Avis a few years ago, and here's how that discussion began on today's episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Uh Heather and Josh, welcome to Focus on the Family. Thank you so much. It's not here.
Well, what an amazing story. I always like to get a bit of background. You know, Jean, whenever I'm watching a sporting event on TV, she goes, I would be so much more into this if I knew the people who are playing. And so you're the players. And for the sake of my wife, I want to know more about you.
And I think the listeners can connect with that in such a deep way. How long have you been married? What formed your marriage? And where did God play a role in just you two coming together? Yeah, we just celebrated 15 years last month, and we met.
So, technically, the real story is I was 13 when we met.
So, you didn't get married at 13. No, no, I didn't get married at 13. I'm going back to biblical things. Yeah, exactly. That's not actually normal today.
Okay, so you met at 13 as your neighbors, or what?
So, Josh is older than I am, and I have an older sister, and he was friends with my older sister. They met in high school. She's very proud of the fact, Josh, that you're older than she is. Much, much older.
Okay, so you've known each other when you were really kids. Yeah, we grew up together. Awesome. Yeah. That's kind of rare today, I would think.
It is. It is. And I just see God's hand on. Us, and I'm so thankful.
So then we got engaged when I was nineteen. Um I got married when I was 20. And I just imagine any one of my children at the age of 19 saying, hey, I'm going to get married. I'm like, I don't think that's a very good idea. I'm very young, right?
I'm impressed that you actually even, your parents let you drive at 19. Right? We're trying to refrain our kids from even driving. No, that's good.
So we just see God's hand on it that in the last 15 years we've grown together closer. And we know the opposite could have happened and we consider God's grace there.
So those first couple of years of marriage, was it all bliss and fun or what was happening? I think so.
Some people say their first year is hard. Ours was. It's pretty fun. Yeah. It was like an extended honeymoon.
We actually got married the senior year of our college year. And after we graduated, instead of getting real jobs or going after grad school, we moved to Hawaii and spent six months in Hawaii. Who had that idea? It was both of us. For all the 19-year-olds listening, you may want to do that.
That's in the middle.
Well, there's not very many times in life when you can say what next, and we had really no responsibilities. And so we did one-way plane tickets, lived in Hawaii. We didn't know how long it'd be. It was six months, moved back home, which is Southern California for us. And then I got a job as a teacher working towards my teaching credential.
What age were you teaching?
Well, I was 22 when I got my first classroom in. I was teaching seniors in high school. I was thinking maybe kindergarten because that's the best year, right? Right. No, it was the question was, how old are you always?
And the answer was, old enough to be your teacher. Always, but just barely. Right. That's fantastic. The typical theme then: you're married a couple years, you're having some exciting times.
You're without kids yet, so you're feeling a bit foot loose, right? And you can go to Hawaii for six months and kick around. What was your favorite island?
Someone's asking that through the money. Oh, Maui forever. Maui forever. There you go. Knuckle Eye.
Somebody's going, so Maui's your favorite. Shout out to Maui. And you start thinking about children, right? And what happened? We just decided it's time to start our family.
We've been married four years, and we had a really great first four years. And because we got married so young, we traveled a ton. I think we're both very adventurous spirits and And we thought we'll try to get pregnant and we'll get pregnant. I think that The majority of people stepping towards parenthood think that it's pretty formulaic, in other words. Exactly.
Yeah, there's no reason for it not to happen. Right, we even sing songs about that, right? First comes marriage, then comes love, you know, however it goes. Obviously, we don't sing that song often. I didn't have a very good teacher, I needed a better teacher.
But that is, there's a rhythm to that, and so you guys are expecting it's going to happen for you, but it doesn't. Doesn't right.
So A few months turn into more months, turn into years, and we just find ourselves on that grueling path of infertility. Heather, you expressed in the book, I think beautifully, a couple of instances where it really. I guess put a spike through your heart. One was with a student who came to you and had some serious, a serious situation. And even getting involved with that kind of was a kind of a double-edged sword for you, right?
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I'm sure people were getting pregnant before I was trying to get pregnant. But in that season, it really felt as though everyone around me was pregnant. Um, it was unbelievable how many people we knew who were pregnant.
And every time we found out, it was just like a little bit of a stab in my heart, even when it was people I loved very dearly, which including my sister got pregnant at that time when we were trying so hard. But The kicker was always a student, and I had this idea in my head that I had done everything right, that I had made the right choices. I had gotten married first, we had a really healthy marriage, we were established in careers. We were doing all the right things. We were faithful to God.
Faithful to God. Yeah. And it was the fair thing was next we get pregnant and it should happen very easily because that's fair. Right. And so then when I would have a student had one girl who was just like a She just had a chip on her shoulder.
She'd had a really rough upbringing, and I had kind of taken her under my wing during the school year, and she came to me during my planning period just in tears. And she just said, Mrs. Avis, I'm pregnant. And my parents are gonna kill me. And I didn't think I could get pregnant because I already had an abortion, and she was 15.
And it was just like, oh my word. And so she's crying, and I'm crying partly for her, but mostly for me. Like, how is this possible? God, this girl's pregnant, this one here, really. And that's so honest.
I love that in your book, the way you express that, because it's very human. But you're sitting there consoling this 15-year-old thinking. How could she be a mom, I'm sure? Lord, I'd be the good mom. Why am I not getting pregnant?
Before I move to you, Josh, to talk about the husband in this moment, one other question for you in this regard, Heather, is your relationship with the Lord. Did you have some bitterness or did you have a discussion with the Lord that, Lord, I don't know why. Right. Yeah. Come on, I'm a good person.
Lots of discussions. Kind of this quid pro quo. And so much of the church, we're trapped in that a bit, you know, that we think that if we do these things, Lord, you do this. That's not the formula, is it? Yeah.
It's definitely not. And there were lots of moments. There were lots of shaking my fists at God. hysterically crying, just totally angry moments. And um I feel like the ultimate lesson that God really impressed upon my heart in that season, and I grew up in the church, this idea that God is.
God. Period. And it seems real simple, but just this idea that his goodness and his faithfulness and his love for me do not hinge on my ability to get pregnant or not. They are what they are, God is God. And so, to hold that truth, you have to be in this place where I'm going to hold that truth real tightly, and I'm going to be really angry and frustrated.
And it has to be both and. And it's an intermingling of all these emotions that feel like they're conflicting. But God's grace is so much bigger than that. And I really felt like he met me. I can look back and feel like he met me only with gentleness and grace, almost like this arm around me, knowing it's going to be okay.
But he's also not going to be the person that's like, try this, and I'm praying for you, it'll be okay. Just the arm, just the arm, just the arm, you know, like just this is hard. Here I am. I am God.
So Josh, being the husband, I'm sure you're thinking, okay, here we go. This will be great. What was the emotion like for you finding out that you can't have children? as a couple. It was, Heather mentioned it earlier that we have been blessed, and there's been grace upon us as we got to grow together.
So it was a time where we really leaned in. Each other.
So it didn't tear you apart? No, not at all. And I felt that the arm that Heather's describing in a way that showed up. And I remember sitting in our kitchen, we had this little tiny mountain home. And I remember.
It was as if God was saying to me, What's next is better. I have something for you for Whatever's coming next is gonna be far better than this. But it was really hard to keep saying that to Heather, and sometimes it would just come across as, We're just gonna, the solution is coming. And she didn't wanna hear that.
Sometimes it wasn't words. But I rested in. that God had this firm foundation that He had had given us that This is something better is coming, and I have such a distinct memory of sitting in the kitchen and saying that to her and truly believing it. But there were a lot of other conversations where it was. It w you just had to sit in it.
And I would just say to a lot of the husbands out there. That suggestions and solutions aren't going to be helpful right now. Just sit in it, sit in it with your wife. Yeah, and Heather, that had to be. I mean, I know discussions I've had with Gene when I'm saying, here's what I think the Lord's telling us, and she's not thinking the same way.
Right. You know, that can be a hard conversation in your marriage. How did you manage that when Josh is saying something better is coming when you're feeling like you're at the bottom? Right. How can you say that?
Yeah. No, that's how I manage it. How can you say that? Why would you say that? That's not, I don't want to hear it.
But again, it's just, I keep going back to the grace piece of it because. I wasn't like this great holy person. I was angry and frustrated and bitter and I didn't want to hear it. And that's okay. I feel like it was okay to be those things and to feel that way.
And there's another side to it. And I got to the other side of it, and I could look back. With fresh eyes and good perspective. But you just, there's just not an easy way out of hard things, you know? And infertility is one of those.
There's lots of hard things people go through, but there's just not an easy way out. You've got to be in it. And God's grace is sufficient for all of your. bitterness and anger and resentment and It's seasonal. We went through a season of infertility and I did not talk about it with anybody else.
I mean, did you all share that and have people along with you for that? That's a great question. No one's asked me that before. And Looking back. It's such a foggy time.
I think um Like my memories are people saying things like We tried for a year, or we tried for two years, or we tried for five years and got pregnant in an encouraging way. But that was the most discouraging thing someone could say to me. Because a year in trying to get pregnant, it's like dog years. You're like, wait a second, I think that's a hundred years at least, is what that feels like.
So I don't know that we did have. We had lots of people being prayerful. We had lots of great support. Our family was really supportive. We had wonderful pastors who came alongside really gently and just lifted us up in prayer and let us know they were doing that.
But in terms of someone who had gone through it, No, but also because we were very young, And not a lot of people we were doing life with We're struggling with infertility. It was happening, which had to, again, put a load on you emotionally. Everybody else is being blessed. Why are we? Just relax.
Just relax. I can feel. Go shopping. Yeah, there was always a quick answer.
So, how many months or years do you move through this part of the trying and the tears and just the realization that maybe it won't happen for us? How long did that last before you started thinking maybe there's another way to go? I think it was about two years, right? It was about two years of trying to fix it, trying to make it work. And we never went as far as in vitro fertilization, but we tried everything else.
And got to a point where Um, well I had had a test done that affect my body really negatively. And my OBGYN just saying Like, I think that's it. Basically, stamping me with infertility, and the only way you're gonna be able to conceive is. Through IVF, we could try that was it. That was the last stop.
That was it. And we knew that that wasn't going to be a road that we were going to travel down.
So that really felt like.
Okay, that's it.
Now what? Because my desire to be a mom was still very much there.
So let's turn the corner though. This is where you begin to think maybe adoption is an option. How did that idea start within the two of you? Yeah. Well, we always Thought about adoption, but what we thought we were going to do, we go back to that plan, was we'll have our own biological kids and then we'll adopt.
And so, with Heather teaching in the special ed, and she with a community of kids that were just amazing and had some of the kids were in foster systems, some of the kids had, we had seen that, and then we, so we just thought we'll do, we'll. Have our own kit and then adopt. And so then here we are.
So we were at that crossroads and it was their. We knew we wanted to be parents. We knew we were going to grow our family. IVF for adoption. That was really the only way that was going to happen.
And IVF wasn't an option.
So you got it.
So it was adoption. And I think there were a few weeks there where we were mourning. And then I think that I was ready to adopt before Josh was. I remember being online, and this was 10 years ago.
So things are very, very different. But Googling international adoptions and trying to figure out which is the fastest. Like, what is the fastest way I get a baby in my arms? Yeah, no, we wanted a baby. I get it.
Give us a baby. And some might go, whoa, but I get it. Yeah. And so we. I think I was ready maybe a month or so before Josh was, and so, like, okay, let's do this, let's adopt.
Now what? And we didn't know anyone who had adopted 10 years ago. Not one person.
So we're asking around, and it turns out one of my. I was a teacher, so one of my teacher's aides Sun Had adopted. Oh, fun. And she said, Why don't you have dinner with them? And this is a couple that loves the Lord fiercely and just like exude Jesus.
And so they invite us to their home, total strangers. Said, yeah, come on over. We'll answer any question. And we go to their home and they open the door, and there's these two rowdy boys running around the house. And I don't know what we were expecting, but when we left, we left.
Realizing this is just a family. Like, wait, what we just experienced was family. That is a beautiful statement. Yeah. Really?
That is probably one of the most beautiful things I've heard about adoption. It's just a family. Yeah, it's good. That's choking me up.
So that's great. What's next?
So you walk away from that evening with your new friends, and they've probably encouraged you that adoption is a good thing. What's the next step? Uh, well, we asked them a ton of questions, and so they started pointing us in direction, and so I think we still created a plan out of what we were going after, and so. Part of that was, well, if we can go after a private adoption agency, at least we'll have some control over age and the health of the boxes. Yeah, for those that don't know, we've done foster, so you have a list of things that seems bizarre, actually.
Very bizarre. You know, would you accept head knocking children? Yep. Children that set things on fire. I mean, it's an interesting concept to get to.
So you were checking. All the boxes that said healthy. Yes.
Well adjusted. A healthy newborn baby. We wanted a newborn.
So, yeah, as little as possible, preferably day one, I'm in there for the labor and delivery. And that's a good thing. I mean, it's a natural thing. Sure. And we're first-time parents, too, so we just didn't know.
And first time. We were just dipping our toes into the adoption world and trying to understand God's heart in adoption. And when we started down the adoption path, our goal was to grow our family, not know more about the Lord, not see His heart for orphans, none of that. It was. All selfish, just I'm going to grow my family.
I'm so glad to hear that because when I read your story, you too. Stand next to the Lord in terms of extending your home and your love and your parenting to strangers, I mean, in the beginning. Where did you go? How did you do your first adoption? And what motivated you to adopt the child you adopted?
Yeah, so we end up at this private agency, the family that we had had dinner with. who invite us in their home is the agency they used, and it's in LA. And while private adoption is expensive, they're a little more affordable. And we want that healthy infant. And so we did the whole process, checked off the lists, and we end up leading our a group in our church on a trip to Romania.
To do a summer camp for youth in Romania. And it had been our third summer. And so we're so excited about this. But at the same time, I'm wanting this phone call so that I'm not going on the trip. Like I'm waiting until the night before.
Please call me. Because when you're in people who are waiting, adoptive parents know that a call comes. And usually it's that day.
Sometimes you have a weekend, maybe a week, right? To prepare for this baby. And you drop everything, your life changes. But you can't live that way when you're in the process. At least we found that you had to move forward with life, live life normally as you could.
but ready to drop it all. Anyway, no, I get that. I mean, you gotta hold it loosely. Yes, you gotta hold it loosely. And so I sent my social worker a little email.
Hey, we're going to be out of the country. Just so you know if we don't answer our cell phones or don't check email. Go to Romania, spend this week at this camp. It's amazing. God's doing awesome things.
We go to our hotel room. You asked her how it was going. I saw, oh, in the email, I said, How are things going? Yeah. What's that?
She emails back, and we open it. I'm in Romania, I open up the laptop. And I see an email from her and my heart drops. Any time I see her name, my heart drops. Like, it was my baby.
And um then I re remember she's just replying to my email.
So she says something like, Thanks for letting me know. Things are really slow. We have a couple of babies with Down syndrome placed in With our agency, it's always hard to find placements for them. Your profile's been viewed once, hang in there. Live.
Her name. And Instantly, God did something in my heart when I read those words, babies with Down syndrome. And it was instantaneous. And I was not excited about this. I wasn't like, yes, Lord, let's step towards this.
I was like, no, no, no, no, no. No. And I got down, and our team was waiting for us. We were gonna go to dinner, and I and I, Josh, and I lagged behind, and he's like, What's going on? I tell him, and I'm waiting for him to say, oh no, that's not what we're going to do.
And he goes, yeah, I think we should pray about that. Can I ask you a tough question? Were you hoping he would say? What? No, let's not do that.
Yeah, I was hoping that he'd say no. We're not waiting for those babies. Like, she's just telling us that happened, so we'll wait for our baby. And, Josh, I gotta ask you, I mean, what. Why did you respond with what you responded to?
A lot of couples listening to us now are going, why? Why would you do that? I mean, I'm getting choked up hearing her talk about it. These are my kids, so I just hearing her explain it that way, it gets me choked up. I think I'm just a firm believer everything happens for a reason.
And so, if this was the reason we were going, and this is the direction we're going. Then Let's step in that direction. Yeah. Yeah, I think a lot of people look at our story.
So there's these two little girls with Down syndrome and the short of it is we adopt one of these children with Down syndrome. And from the moment we read that email to bringing our daughter home, It was mostly us saying no. Yeah. Or us saying, I don't think so, but we'll keep stepping this direction. And so we weren't.
These amazing holy saints, we were fighting what God had laid before us, fighting against it. And God kept meeting us with, okay, let's keep moving forward. All right, that's nice. Let's keep moving forward.
Well, and I so appreciate that honesty. And we are at the end of this day, but I want to come back. I mean, people are going, What? You can't stop now. But I want to come back and really understand your heart, your relationship with the Lord, what He was speaking to you, because I think a lot of people, even believers, This is a tough decision.
But it's an awesome decision if those two can go together. And I so respect. What you have done. But I've got a ton of questions. And we want to hear about how things have grown.
You now have a family of three.
So let's come back next time and pick the story up right here where you're adopting your first child who has Down syndrome. Can we do it? Yeah. Okay, let's do that.
Well, today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we've been hearing from Josh and Heather Avis about their remarkable journey from infertility to adoption. And they've captured their story in Heather's book called The Lucky Few, Finding God's Best in the Most Unlikely Places. And John, what I love about this couple is how they kept listening to the Lord even when he seemed far away. Have you ever felt that? I mean, I have.
They didn't give up. They kept trusting that God knew what was best for their family. Do you have that same kind of trust? Are you willing to follow the Lord's leading into something that's unfamiliar and beyond your comfort zone? That's a challenge.
And it's my prayer that today's program is motivating you to get involved in some way, especially in what the Bible calls pure religion out of the book of James, caring for widows and orphans. One way you can do that is through our Wait No More program here at Focus on the Family. What we're looking for are Christian couples who will consider foster care or adoption or even respite care where you bring children into your home for a day or two. To support and give those foster parents a little break. That's something my wife Jean and I have done quite a bit.
Yeah, and that is so laudable and so difficult at times, right? I mean, it really is a messy kind of commitment that you make, but when you do that, you are serving those orphans. Another way to help is by kind of wrapping around those families who are doing foster care or adoption. You just do simple things like grocery shopping or helping them with yard work or housework or invite them into your family, bring that mess into your own family. We've got details about Wait No More and how you can get engaged in Heather's book, The Lucky Few, at our website.
And make a donation of any amount to focus on the family today. And we'll thank you for your partnership. We'll send a copy of The Lucky Few to you for your own benefit or maybe to share with a small group or in your church. We need to mention also what these donations are paying for. According to the research we do every year, about a half a million families in the last 12 months were willing to.
investigate foster care or adoption and how they might get involved and that's amazing. I am so grateful for the generosity of friends who help make ministries like Wait No More possible. Can I invite you to participate as well? Send a gift to focus on the family today or make a monthly pledge. Anything and everything helps.
Let me just add, if you're the one person in the church that has an eye on this, just rally some people around in the church to get around that adoptive couple or that foster couple that might be in your church. Ask that question. Are they among us and how can we help them? I appreciate that, Jim.
Well, donate, get a copy of Heather's book, learn more about how you can get engaged, all at our website. And we've got the links in the show notes for you. And then one final resource we want to point you to is our free special needs parenting audio collection, more than five hours of encouraging content. With parents who are really stepping up and raising kids with special needs. We urge you to check that out at our website or in the show notes.
And on behalf of the team, thanks for listening today to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back next time as we continue the conversation with Heather and Josh Avis and once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Live your truth. A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide.
God has decided it for us. And it's our job as believers to share his truth with a world in need. I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast, Refocus with Jim Daly. I visit with fascinating guests about important topics like gender confusion, cancel culture, and more, while helping you share God's love with others. Listen at Refocus with JimDaily.com.
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