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That's focusonthefamily.com/slash get help. Yeah. One thing you should do in marriage is definitely to listen. Everybody kind of knows that. Don't hesitate to tell your husband what you truly need.
Do have lots of laughter together and don't expect your spouse to change. Don't fight when you're hungry. Don't fight when you're tired. And do buy each other chocolate. I like that one.
What do you think? I mean, there are some good do's and don'ts there, and every marriage can benefit from some insights. How well are you doing? I'm John Fuller and this is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and today we're going to be examining different habits that you can cultivate that will either help or hurt your relationship with your spouse. And thanks for joining us.
You know, John, Gene and I have been married like 40, almost 40 years.
So probably 20 years ago, I think is a safe guess, I remember something that's going to make every husband shiver right now. I said to Jean, hey, on a scale of one to 10, how's our marriage doing? And she goes, well, what do you think it is? I said, I think it's like a nine. And she goes, yeah, I think it's more like a three.
And I went, you know, because, but it shows the difference.
Sometimes we can live in a bubble. I think husbands are, you know, this is often where we're at. We think it's going splendidly. And our wives are not thinking it's going so splendidly. I'm sure the shoe can be on the other foot, but I think it points out just how we may not be on the same page.
And today we want to talk with our guest about doing those things that hopefully get you to a 10. And when you're asked, both are a 10. Wouldn't that be wonderful? That would be nice. I think I may have moved up to a seven or eight.
So I'm feeling like I'm doing better, but I better ask Gene again. I think we've got her on the line. Hang the phone up. No, it's a good question. Yeah, it is.
And we've got a great guest here to talk about marriage and being stronger as a couple. Dr. Randy Schrader is here. He's an author, speaker, and licensed marriage and family therapist. And he and his wife, Ginny, are celebrating 50 years.
How awesome is that? That's great. He's He's written a landmark book that we keep coming back to, Jim. The book that keeps on getting. There's so much to mind here.
It's called Simple Habits for Marital Happiness: Practical Skills and Tools That Build a Strong and Satisfying Relationship. And we've got details about Randy and this excellent book at our website. And you'll find the link in the show notes. Randy, welcome back to Focus. It is great to be with you.
I am so grateful for you two and focus on the family, strengthening marriages, and helping families. We're doing it every day.
Now, you're hailing out of Indiana, correct? Yes, sir. We're in a suburb of Indianapolis. Oh, that's great. Yeah.
We, of course, we love the Colts simply because Peyton Manning came to the Broncos, but we don't love him that much. We don't want to see him in the championship. But hey, let me ask you, and this is a really important place to start: forgiveness and that linkage with happiness. Why is forgiveness such an ingredient into a happy marriage?
Well, we think about forgiveness. We immediately think about Jesus and the fact that he died for the sins of the world, our sins. And it's through forgiveness the three of us and all your listeners get to walk into heaven to be with Jesus for eternal life one day. Yeah, that's good, Randy, but you don't know my husband. He ain't no Jesus.
Right? That's what I think some wives would say. And that's why forgiveness is the glue. And in fact, the Bible has 125 references to the importance of forgiveness for interpersonal relationships. And so without forgiveness, I always say it's almost impossible to have lifelong happiness in a marriage relationship.
Let me make sure the listeners and viewers understand this because I've met people that say, oh, yeah, I've forgiven him or I've forgiven her, but you can tell it hasn't happened. You know, it's just even in the tone of the person's voice, it doesn't sound like it was real. Speak to that delusion, if I could. Call it that, where a person, especially a spouse in a marriage, says, Yeah, yeah, I forgave her. What does it mean to really, truly forgive somebody?
Great question, Jim. Forgiveness is a process. And I always kind of remember three big words besides process. It's a gift and a promise. God, for the sake of Jesus Christ, gives us the gift of forgiveness.
Likewise, the greatest gift a husband and wife can give to each other is forgiveness. And so when we think of it as a gift, and it can be hard for all of us to forgive others, and I When Jenny needs to forgive me, I need to forgive her. We may think, gosh, you know, that's going to be hard to do. Yet, God gave me the gift, I need to give my spouse the gift. And then it's a promise.
Not to bring up the forgiven wrong once it has been forgiven. God, the Bible tells us, I will remember your sins no more. God forgives and forgets. As humans, all we do is forgive. We're still going to remember, but we promise not to bring it up to our spouse again.
And then it's a process with some deep hurts, maybe. Every day I've had hundreds or over a thousand spouses tell me every morning, Dr. Schrader, I say out loud, with God's help, I'm working at forgiving my spouse for That particular deep person. Start your day with that thought in mind. That's a good place to aim for in terms of that forgiveness.
But what are the dangers of allowing unforgiveness? I think you used in the book a golf analogy, which quickly got my attention. But how do we deal with that unforgiveness?
Well, and forgiveness can be like I say in my book, divots on a golf course. The polite thing to do when there are divots is to replace the divot or replace the divot with grass seed so that the grass grows back. If the divots are not repaired, The golf course is going to become barren. Likewise, if forgiveness Hurts or not replaced with forgiveness, then marriage can become barren and continue to hurt. For the non-golfer, that divot is someone like me who hits more dirt than ball, and then it puts this big chunk of earth, it displaces it, and you have to repair it, which you should.
But that's the point you're making. Yes, sir. Yeah, come back and repair the divot. Yes, I like that. You know, another analogy you have is it's a little bit on the gross side.
I was thinking, was this eighth grade? I may have said this, but you say unforgiveness is a lot like eating off dirty dishes. Yes, yes. I was thinking of the picking your nose, but this one's far better. What can we learn about unforgiveness with dirty plates?
Well, if the three of us tonight had spaghetti. And then we don't wash those plates, we set them on the kitchen counter tomorrow night. We have barbecue chicken. On those same plates we had spaghetti, but we don't wash them, set them on the kitchen counter.
Next night we have uh roast beef with mashed potatoes and gravies and eat them off those plates. Eventually, we're going to get food poisoning. And likewise, A marriage can become poison when the plates aren't washed and clean, and that's what forgiveness does. Forgiveness washes those plates. You know, I could tell a little story that would help with apologizing and forgiving.
My PhD doctoral dissertation was actually on the benefits of apologizing and forgiving for a marriage. And I went through the whole Bible, read numerous books, numerous articles, and I wrote 350 pages on apologizing and forgiving and the benefits for a marriage. I had pastors refer struggling couples to me. Who wanted to strengthen their marriage, and many of them were on the verge of divorce. There had been adultery.
And before I take couples through a process and explaining, apologizing, forgiving in detail, and I had them assess their marriage. The best marriage was a C of those who couples that came in.
So most there were marriages that graded themselves F.
Some D, some C. Once they learn the apologizing-forgiving process. And I also had them apologize to each other and then forgive each other. With I forgive you, or with God's help, I'll work at forgiving you. It was amazing.
That when they assess themselves after learning, How to apologize, how to forgive. And all the little details about forgiveness that we don't really have time to talk about today, the marriages that were F went to C. The marriages that were D went to B, and the marriages that were C went to A. Just absolutely amazing how we're going to spend eternal life in heaven because of forgiveness. You know, what's so puzzling for us as human beings, I think, just for Gene and I, I'll just talk about our own experience.
Why live there? Why not try to have a better marriage, have a healthier, happier marriage? I mean, you're going to live together, you know, if you don't have an accident of some sort. You're going to be together 60 plus years.
So you think about that, it's almost insanity. that you'd prefer to live in marriage mire and actually improve it and have a good time, especially as Christians. But these are the elements that you need. Another illustration that you have in the book is the marriage mirror. What is it and how do you see yourself in that?
That is a great question as well, Jim. And we need to be able to identify when we create hurts and disappointments in our marriage relationships and look in the mirror. It's just like we look in a mirror to see what needs to be improved on our appearance before we go out. And likewise, it's good to look in the marriage mirror to see how we may have hurt our spouses' feelings. Could be intentionally, could be unintentionally.
I'd say most of the time, as we grow as spouses, there's a lot of unintentional hurts, and yet still that's a hurt, and that needs to be apologized for and forgiven. And so, that marriage mirror is important. And I have often asked thousands of times, spouses, what would you like about being married to yourself? And then a follow-up question: What would you dislike about being married to yourself? And that's a good question for the three of us.
I mean, you guys are marriage experts. I'm a marriage expert. I need to ask that question, those two questions, to continue my. In becoming better and better in every way as a Christian spouse. Man, years ago, Gene and I, we were having an argument about something, and she said, You know, I love you.
I don't like you right now. And I said, How could you not like me? She goes, Yeah, that's the problem.
So I think my mirror might be a little clouded at times, but I'm sorry, Gene. But, you know, it's so fun. You and Jenny, likewise in the book, you talk about times that you were not in sync or doing well, and that you had to navigate with her kind of emotional hurts and forgiveness in your own marriage. Has forgiveness ever been that kind of struggle for you?
Well, I think it is for all of us because we're all imperfect, flawed sinners. Uh it can be a challenge. There are different rituals that I, healing rituals I call them, that I ask couples to go through once they have forgiven. You know, I'll suggest that they intentionally pray for their spouse's mental well-being, emotional well-being, physical well-being for seven consecutive days. Uh I take them through what I call a Jesus exercise.
where couples take a trip across the Atlantic Ocean in their mind, Go below the cross of Jesus. Picture Jesus, crown of thorns on his head, dying for the sins of the world and that spouse's sins, and then picture their spouse standing right there across from them at the cross of Jesus. And the spouse says, I'm sorry, I hurt you by. being unfaithful or saying ABC. And they always ask the humility part and the most important part in the forgiveness process is, Will you please forgive me?
And then they ask, Will you please forgive me? And then the spouse Who needs to forgive, who's been betrayed, would say, I forgive you, or with God's help, I'll work her forgiving you. And they do that seven times. Times. Picture their spouse saying, I'm sorry I hurt you by.
Will you please forgive me? And they say, I forgive you with God's help. I'll work at forgiving you. I'll never forget, I had a nurse. Who's Husband was a doctor, but he had been unfaithful.
To his wife, and I remember her saying to me: she said, Dr. Schrader, I'm a nurse, blood doesn't bother me. She said, but what I did is pictured myself filled with sin. And then I pictured myself pictures. Touching the cross of Jesus, and a drop of blood from his forehead where the crown of thorns.
uh was on his head, came down and hit my hand. And turn me righteous and holy.
So I need forgiveness, just like my husband. And then I pictured my husband saying to me, I'm so sorry I hurt you by being unfaithful. Will you please forgive me? And I said, sometimes it's gonna need to be. With God's help, I'm working at forgiving you.
Again, it's a process. And she said, that helps me so much. And I've had hundreds. maybe over a thousand spouses say every morning in the shower, They picture that Jesus exercise and may not do it seven times, but they'll say out loud in the shower every morning. With God's help, I'm working at forgiving my spouse.
So that process goes and they don't bring it up to their spouse's memory. And I would think that changes that spouse's heart. Oh, that's softens the heart tremendously. That's what it's doing.
Softens the heart. You know, one of the things I want to be. I guess gentle here because we've used that example of unfaithfulness and forgiving that person. That's perhaps the deepest wound that you can have in a marriage. And I'm sure some people listening or watching have heard that.
And that is the one thing that the Lord says that can dissolve a marriage. What's been your experience working with people that have had that? situation and the Outcome if they can hold together and be in love again? Terrific question again. And I thank God that it came up because I have seen hundreds and hundreds of couples where there's been adultery restore their relationships and have better marriages after the adultery.
It's kind of like everything's out there, and the wounds and sin are just out in front now. There's nothing, I'm not hiding anything. Exactly. Secrets hurt relationships, and yet they need knowledge in the seven major areas of a marriage, and that's what I cover in Simple Habits for Marital Happiness. They need that logical knowledge, they need practical phrases, positive actions, specific guidelines, and then they restore their relationship.
Now, to rebuild trust, Is a process, but it happens. And I always have the betrayed spouse make a list of actions. And make a list of phrases that will rebuild trust. Again, hundreds of spouses, the betrayer will say every morning to the betrayed spouse, I am committed to you today. And also, I will be faithful to you today.
And that begins to rebuild the trust process. And there's actions, you know, that if they're not going to be home on time, they text and say, hey, I'm going to be 15 minutes late.
So it doesn't hurt the trust. And yeah, in answer to your question, couples restore their relationship. We've seen that in our Hope Restore four-day intensives, couples that come in with that specific issue, and they seem, if they can get through that, if they can work on all those things that you mentioned, they are so strong in their marriages typically. Because, again, I think they've shown every weakness. They're well known by their spouse.
And it seems to. Really cement their commitment to each other going forward. Randy, let me ask you this. We've laid out the case for forgiveness, obviously, but we're still human. And our flesh Works against the Spirit in us as Christians.
So, why specifically with Christians do we struggle so much with forgiveness? And again, it doesn't have to be in the context of unfaithfulness, but anything along that continuum where somebody has hurt us, where our spouse has hurt us, why do we struggle with that forgiveness, knowing that that's what the Lord would want from us?
Well, it's just human. To have a hard time saying those words. And the other thing I think is so important is to use the forgive word. And to say, I forgive you, or with God's help, I'll work at forgiving you, and not say, that's okay, no problem, I'm over it. To say, I forgive you, or with God's help, I'll work at forgiving you seals the forgiveness process.
and makes it easier to move forward in a marriage relationship. You know, I mentioned, Randy, the process part of this conversation, and you liken a good marriage to baking a good apple pie together. Wow, it got my attention.
So, what's that about?
Well, it takes two healthy spouses. To make a healthy Christian marriage. And so, personal issues can hurt a marriage relationship, like a high-control spouse, or abuse, or verbal abuse, or addictions. And so, in a healthy marriage, both spouses add healthy ingredients to that good-tasting apple pie. If either spouse is a vinegar spouse and throws in vinegar into that apple pie, of course, it's going to taste.
Not good, horrible. And so uh The spouse with the personal issues would need to really work hard. To make sure that they improve on whatever that personal issue is, so that the apple pie tastes delicious and they got healthy ingredients, both of them. Going into the apple pie. You urge couples to be givers in their marriage.
I mean, that makes complete sense, you know. Again, sometimes that becomes difficult because you, well, I don't think she deserves me giving something right now. She really wounded me. But why is giving so important? How do you practice that in your marriage?
We're going to go right back to the Bible.
Okay. God gave His only begotten Son. Jesus gave his life for the sins of the world. And so we need to follow. That example and be givers in our marriages as well, and not takers.
uh and avoid selfishness and be selfless. And one of the questions I ask spouses to ask one another at the beginning of the week is: what can I do better? In this coming week. You know, how can I give to you in this coming week?
So it's no guesswork. We're not going to ask. Partners to read each other's minds, but just be like Jesus, be a giver. And ask those questions. What can I do better and how can I give to you this week?
You know, another biblical, it seems a biblical reference would be the garden. You know, when things went down, they blamed each other, they hid from God. And I think I want to concentrate on that hiding component. I think, as men, I think husbands tend to hide emotionally. We're not as open and honest.
I'm sure the shoe can be on the other foot. And if you're in that relationship, I get it. I'm not trying to say it doesn't exist. But where one of the spouses tends to not be forthright, maybe because they don't want to get in trouble. You know, it's nothing serious, but it's just like, you know, if I say that, I'm going to get schooled on why I shouldn't go to that movie with my buddies, even if it's a reasonable, it's a war movie with lots of violence and language.
Um something a little more innocent, obviously than pornography or something like that. That's obvious that you should be concerned about that. But but speak to that need to have the courage, either spouse, to be able to Get that on the table so we can talk about it.
So the other spouse isn't guessing. Where did he go? What did he do? What was in his head? How do you get that out of the relationship?
Outstanding point and so important to talk about secrets hurting a relationship. There are no secrets because God sees everything. And we need to keep that in mind: that God's observing our behaviors, our words, and that puts us on our best Christian behavior. And one of the things I always suggest to couples is that if any activity needs to be secret, it's not a healthy endeavor, especially financial secrets. And I can think of, in terms of financial secrets, a medical doctor one time, I'll never forget it, helping he and his wife.
He bought an apartment building. And counseling said, You know, I just forgot to tell you I was going to make that purchase. That's not a little purchase. But yeah, we didn't know the two big ones I would say are no financial secrets, no technology secrets. And I think it's couples need to be careful, but be comfortable.
You know, letting each other see each other's email accounts, see the cell phones, to avoid secrets. In fact, John, do you have an example of that? You know, I do, Jim. I mean, just honestly, yes, there was a time when I didn't mean to put you on this. Job, I'd appreciate that.
Because I think sometimes viewers and listeners think we have our act together. And I had some secrets, I had some technology secrets, and it is so wonderful to not have those secrets anymore. I remember Dr. Archibald Hart talking about when we expose secrets to the light, we rob them of their power. Wow.
And so that really has resonated with me, and I've seen that in my own life. Just what a beautiful thing to have no secrets, to be known and loved and accepted. I'm not saying I'm perfect on this, but yeah, that's very revolutionary. That's great. That is great.
Yeah. Well, Dr. Schrader, this has been a great session for John and I to be with you and for you to straighten out some of our foibles in marriage. But these are. Reminders for me as well.
We're all perfect. Gene and Dina are going to listen to this. We're had, you know, that's okay. She's going to say, I heard you on the broadcast the other day. It was so refreshing that you actually knew some of your weaknesses.
No, I mean, it's fun, and we have a great relationship, but this has been really good stuff. Every time you're on the program, Randy, people respond so positively. You just have a great way of blending biblical truth with human reality and then putting it into day-to-day practice, which is awesome for a counselor. It's kind of the gift you need, right?
Well, I am grateful for this opportunity, and I pray that by God's grace, many marriages will be improved and strengthened through these powerful habits. Yeah, we're going to pick up next time with CPR, which is obviously, you know, what you do to a heart that is not functioning, but your CPR is a little different. Just tease us with what your CPR is.
Well, we'll talk about how to be respectful, even though with those relationships that can be difficult.
So, civil, civil. Polite, and respectful. Yeah, there you go. You're CPR in marriage.
So revive the marriage heart and join us again next time when we pick the conversation up right there. Thanks for being with us, Randy. My honor again. Thanks for having me. In the meantime, you need this amazing resource Randy has put together: Simple Habits for Marital Happiness.
This is filled with practical advice on so many topics, and we've only covered a few of those today. I can't recommend this book enough. Make a monthly pledge of any amount of focus, and we'll get a copy to you as our way of saying thank you. This is a great way to get the tools you need to live out a godly marriage in today's culture and help us expand that positive impact to more and more families today. You know, in the past 12 months, we do research every year to ask people that contact Focus on the Family how did Focus on the Family help you?
And that research that we completed last year over the last 12 months showed that more. More than 500,000 couples were able to build stronger marriages with our help. That's just in the last year. Be part of that ministry. Let's work together.
Also, more than 140,000 marriages were in a crisis. People that contacted us to get help, and Randy, I really appreciate you being part of that because we're able to send your book to these couples to say, Here, check this out. This will help. And again, it's great to work with you in that way.
So please be generous. We're doing this together. The Lord sees you provide that gift, and it accrues to your account in heaven, not ours. We'll do the footwork, but we need the fuel to touch those lives. We always appreciate your generosity.
So make a monthly pledge to focus or a one-time gift, whatever you can afford, when you call 800, the letter A and the word family. 800-232-6459. Or of course you can donate and get Randy's book at our website and the link is in the show notes. Also, when you get in touch, check out our free marriage assessment. Over a million people have taken this.
It's been revised and it's an excellent tool for you to spend 10 or 15 minutes with and learn what's going well in your marriage and some things that you might work on. It's an excellent assessment. It's free. Check it out online. And on behalf of the entire team, thanks for listening today to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we continue the conversation with Dr. Randy Schrader and once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Sprinkle some love into your marriage this month with the Loving Well podcast from Focus on the Family. I'm Aaron Smalley, and I host the podcast with my husband, Dr. Greg Smalley, and our good friend, John Fuller.
We chat about how to put Christ at the center of your relationship, deepen your love, and have a marriage that truly thrives. Listen today at focusonthefamily.com/slash lovingwell or wherever you get your podcasts.
