I came in and I'm, you know, at this point, just a couple of weeks away from delivery, and just heard the words that I never thought I would hear. which were just I'm sorry. And, um Just had a moment. um to acknowledge what he was telling me. that there was no heartbeat.
And that Our baby had died. Susan was devastated, but we reminded her of God's unfailing love. And so Focus on the Family really was monumentally instrumental in teaching me this truth and healing me. And the resource of Focus on the Family was teaching me to grieve with hope. I'm Jim Daly.
We need your help now to deliver hope and joy to hurting people like Susan. Give before December 31st and your gift will be doubled. Donate at focusonthefamily.com/slash family. This should be easier. I love my family.
You know, we have a couple of problem people. Maybe I'm the problem person sometimes, but this should be easier. And what we need to do is normalize that these holiday gatherings, getting together with the people we love, always bring some additional stress and to. Plan for that and say it's okay, but to know we're not crazy for feeling stressed out. That's Kathy Lipp, and she's got advice about solving dilemmas that come up during the holiday season here on Focus on the Family.
Kathy is joined by her co-author, Sherry Gregory, and your host is Focus President and author Jim Dailey. I'm John Fuller. John, last night we started what I believe was a tremendously helpful conversation for those who feel overwhelmed by relationships, especially during the Christmas holiday season, which I think is pretty much everybody at one point or another. I mean, I see it with Jean too. She gets a little stressed out, and you know, she's trying to do it well, do it sometimes perfectly.
And even though she would say, I know I can't do it perfectly, but she's still going to try. And I loved what Kathy and Sherry shared about last time, that importance of making it a point to pre-decide how you're going to respond before you're in the situation and you respond out of the emotion of the moment rather than out of what God would want you to do. And, you know, sometimes We leave God on the side when we're dealing with our family because they know we're Christians and we don't have to put it on display. And sometimes that'll get you in trouble. And we're going to give you, I think, wonderful tools to be able to better manage the chaos of this holiday season.
Yeah, and that'll help you avoid some of that trouble this season. Our guests are Kathy Lipp and Sherry Gregory, and they have a great book called Overwhelmed: How to Quiet the Chaos and Restore Your Sanity. Click on the link in the description to get your copy for a donation of any amount. Kathy and Sherry, welcome back to Focus. Always great to be here.
Thanks for having us back.
Now, we ripped it open yesterday and started talking about all those painful moments, the in-laws, husband gets on your nerves, all those great details. And if you missed it, I would download it or get the smartphone app so you can listen to it at your leisure. But it's a wonderful conversation we started and very real. I appreciate that. I think that's one of the disservices we can do in Christian communication: we kind of go with perfect, and everybody's going, I don't live there.
And so you guys always bring that wonderful heart of imperfection. That's a compliment, by the way. That is a compliment. We'll take it as such. Let's start there.
For those who didn't hear the program last time, describe what being overwhelmed during this time of year looks like and feels like.
Well, I think the keystone feeling for me is feeling like it should be easier. It just should be. It seems like everybody else, they've got it under control. Their kids rise up and call them blessed. Oh, sorry.
Exactly, right? And everybody's family gets together and they agree on everything. And by the way, I'm an excellent cook. And so I can just put this feast on the table and nobody has to help out. And I can have those fantasies in August, but as November and December land on me, I realize, you know, my family, we have these points that are stressful.
And then I'm not as good as I think I am when it comes to all the cooking and all that kind of stuff. And why isn't anybody helping me, even though I didn't ask anybody to help me? And the overwhelm can get the overwhelm can get to every area. And you feel like, not only am I failing, but I'm in this boat alone.
Now, Sherry, I don't mean to put you on the spot, but being the firstborn daughter, do you have a little bit inside of you that says, well, I'm close to perfect in that way. I get things done. You know, I am a getter-dunner, but my mother was a home economics major.
So there's just no relief there. There's just no way I could ever. And she had a double oven. I finally figured that out last year. I could never get hot foods on the table hot and cold on the table cold.
And I finally, my brother reminded me, she had a double oven. I don't. I'm like, well, there we go. You know, nowadays it's a triple oven. Yeah.
But I'm kidding. I don't know. But, you know, I think part of this is realizing I don't actually like to cook unless there's a lot of people in the kitchen with me because I'm a collaborative person. And so when I started realizing, hang on, I'm in the kitchen all by myself. Everybody else is out someplace else having fun.
I'm in here feeling persecuted, but I have to do it this way because it's the way we've always done it. It was so helpful to realize, you know, let me figure out who could help me with different dishes. And it turned out my daughter wanted to learn how to make the tabouli. My son wanted to learn how to make the baklava. And so I started divvying up some of the dishes and inviting them.
I think this is so important: we have it all in our head. We don't ask for help. We don't let other people know the expectations, and we think our expectations are the only ones in the room. And I also found out of all the things that I, because I actually did start cooking all the foods from my husband's side of the family and all the foods from my side of the family.
So, like 20 dishes all for the same meal. And we finally sat down and said, Let's talk about what we really need. Let's all talk about what it really takes to make this a good holiday.
Sounds like the Mediterranean diet is where you landed. Yeah, well, we did. But you know what it turned out? Is it turned out that what my kids wanted is they wanted a mom who was present and happy. Yeah.
They didn't care about anything else. They wanted mom to be a lot less stressed. I want to kind of put a little more emphasis on this idea of expecting people to do more without asking them to do more. Because I think every woman's going, and men too, are saying, wow, yeah, I do that. How do you catch yourself to be fairer to that person?
I mean, here we get, we build up this bitterness and resentment, and they're not mind readers.
Okay, it's all time and expectations. This is a common theme for us. And so, what I finally did is because I have people in my family who want to help, but I'm in such a mode, it's hard for me to say, yes, go make the fruit salad when it's just easier to do it myself. Is it easier? Is there a little bit of pride there if I can get it all done?
Shows how efficient, effective, and very low on the price, but I understand for other people, yes. And you know, there are some people shaking her head, yes.
Well, there are some people who are known for their pumpkin pie, right? And it would be sacrilege in the family for anybody but Aunt Betty to do the pumpkin pie. Let Aunt Betty do her thing, that's great. But in my house, it's like putting the cheese plate together. And so now, what I've got is I have a list, I call it my help list.
Okay, and so I think through at least a day before, maybe it's two days before, what is anything that anybody else could possibly do? And so, putting the cheese plate together, unloading the dishwasher. And so, I put together that whole list. And this is going to sound crazy, Martha Stewart. I don't care.
It helps me. And so, it makes me happy. I put all the cheeses that need to go on that cheese plate in one bag and says, There's the cheese plate. And by the way, I don't care what the cheese plate is. Looks like at the end.
Okay, now you're talking my language. As long as there are carbohydrates and cheese products on a plate, my family's happy. I am typically the cheese plate preparer. Yes.
Now, are you given very specific instructions or do you just get to go watch it? I think I actually have a little knack for displaying cheese. But it's just me cutting them, and I might even put little pickles around in relish. Look at that. I mean, and you have found your spot.
John's puckered face. Pickles on a cheese plate. You know, like little pickles and stuff on there, too. And by the way, there is somebody in your family who will be the hero and say, for me, it's my daughter, Kimberly.
Now, my husband will help all the time. He's great. I hear a little hesitance there. What do you mean? Yeah, he'll help all the time, but not very helpful.
No, no, here's what I'll say about what I've learned. Roger will do anything that I don't tell him telepathically. I have to actually tell him with my mouth, hey, it would be great if you unloaded the dishwasher. Hey, could you, can we? We have just moved into marriage advice.
Yeah, but it's true. It's marriage saving advice. But when I'm like, he's just standing there, doesn't he know that the dishwasher needs to be emptied? And I finally, after 15 years almost of marriage, realize, no, he doesn't. It's never occurred to him that the dishwasher needs to be unloaded.
Everybody's overwhelmed in different ways. That may be most guys going, I don't even know where to start here. Right. And he doesn't want to do the wrong thing that then will set me off. Like, why are you out cleaning the barbecue?
That does not help me. Because it's outside the house. Right. And so to have somebody like Roger, if he, he'll say, give me a list and I'll make it all happen. And that is brilliant.
My daughter Kimberly, she's the one who will come over and say, if you need me to clean the bathroom, if that's what's going to serve you best, mom, you need, I know. And we're sitting here, our little hearts are beating as mom. But, you know, there are other people. I would never ask my mom to come over and clean my bathroom. Right.
Her day is done. She doesn't need to do that. She is now Queen B. Yeah. And she still helps, but let's give her fun projects.
What about, and there's going to be this kind of situation, too. You got the teenagers that are like, yeah, okay, whatever. And then they struggle getting it done. I have been on you for two hours to do this. What do you do there?
The things that are critical, those are going to be left up to the adults. Let's just make sure of that. I don't want to be in a knockdown drag out with my kids on the day.
So, the other thing I try to do is say, okay, I have a kid who loves to bake.
So let's put Jeremy On the cakes. Let's have him do that. Find what they would naturally be good at and ask them and say, you know what, it's just not going to be the same if you don't participate. Have you had enough time now over the last few years to actually develop a list where it's become more routine where you just kind of tape it to the cap? Yeah, I've literally spreadsheets.
That might be a little much, but I think a lot of it is we think this should all come naturally. Like, you know, it happens every year. I should remember. Oh, my goodness. But when you make the list and you've got it saved on your computer and you keep adding to it each year and you tweak it just a little bit, it is such a comfort to bring it up.
And a lot of stuff can be done in October. Right. But now here we are in November.
So the advice you would have is to take a deep breath, get through this year, and let's aim for next year. And then write down everything you did so that you can repeat it for Christmas. Those things that you liked. Yes, but not everything you did. Right, right.
Yelled at grandmother. Don't write that down. Don't write that down. But yeah, to keep track. And I know.
I know where Thanksgiving is happening, but I would say a bad list is better than no list.
So even do the back of an envelope and say, here are the 10 things that we need to get done, and here are the three people I can ask. And do that list right now. Do not get up from where you are sitting right now listening to this. Make the list now.
Okay, what about this situation where? the daughter in law wants to help out, but it's never going to be done properly. How do you cut through that?
So let's flip it around and say, we want to be with family and we want to help them, but they don't want our help the way we do it.
Well, I think it depends on if you're the mother-in-law or the daughter-in-law. And then the husband also has a role to play in all of this.
So, as a mother-in-law, which I am to a wonderful young man, Sean, I want to honor his contributions because he's as much a part of this family as I am, just because we've been hanging out longer together.
So, he brings a new aspect to things, and I want to be able to honor that. And so, as I have a daughter-in-law, I hope I'll be able to do that as well, to be able to say, You are welcome here. We want to find out more about you. And if she says, You know, in our family, we have cranberry cheesecake every single year. Could I bring that?
I want to be the kind of person that says, The more, the merrier, we want to honor that. If you're the daughter-in-law and you're not feeling accepted, it's time to have a conversation with your husband and just say, What's our best strategy here? How's the best way for me to honor your mom in this? Because you're not trying to usurp her authority, you're not trying. To kick her out, you just want to say, Hey, I want to do, and maybe it's in a small way, maybe it's a small contribution instead of saying, Okay, well, in our family, we did these six things, and so I want to bring them to your family.
That could be overwhelming.
So, let's say, is there a small way you can do it? But I'm hoping that the mother-in-laws out there are saying, You know, it may not be done the way I would do it, but that just brings something new and fun to our family. And so, we have to approach both ends of this with grace and putting the other person in front of us and honoring each other in the relationship. And you talk about the husband being involved.
Now, you got to give us the instruction. What are we doing with this information once we get it? There are conversations that my husband can have with his mom and that he can have with me that only he can have.
So, he has to play that negotiator. Right. But you know what? What he's trying to do is honor both of these important women in his life. But let's be clear.
His job is to protect his wife. And so he wants to honor his mom. I want to honor his mom. And so I need to tread lightly in those situations. But Roger's going to be the one who says, Mom, we need to make some space.
You know, it's not just about us anymore. And I know you love Kathy.
So let's, how do we make room for Kathy? I can't have that conversation with my mother-in-law, but she can have it with her beloved Roger. Yeah. Sherry, the self-care, we touched on it lightly last time, but we didn't really drill into it. It's like the last thing on the list at this time of year.
I mean, really? Seriously? Self-care? What are you talking about? Take a walk?
What I don't have time for that.
Well, first of all, I think so many women feel like self-care is selfish. And as if we're only focusing on ourselves. The thing about true self-care is when we. When we practice self-care, then we can truly take care of other people. Because if we're wearing down, if we're getting sick because we haven't been taking care of ourselves, then the whole holiday season is going to be worse for everybody.
What does it look like? Tick off some things that you need to think about. I know it's going to sound hard to do, but making sleep a priority, at least in our household, if we haven't had our sleep, we start snapping at each other.
So guilt-free sleep. Yes, it's not lazy. It's absolutely necessary. It needs to be a priority. And then for those of us who are either introverts or ambiverts, when we're at a family gathering, I mean, I've learned, I've given myself permission because nobody's going to look at me and say, Sherry, you look like you're overwhelmed.
You look like you need five minutes in a darkened room with the lights out all by yourself. That could be a scary comment. By that point, I probably need a half an hour. But, you know, or just go take a, you know, maybe they're out of butter and I can go run to the store and have a little bit of time away from all the hustle and bustle to come back. But just even for me, knowing that I'm going to take the responsibility to take that time rather than try to make it through the entire.
time because for introverts we're drained by so many people and to recognize that and to say I'm not going to blame them I'm not going to make it their fault they don't have to turn down the music today I'm going to be the one who says I'm going to take the break in that regard your husband this is normal or typical but it's not always true and I recognize that but your husband may be more extroverted than because usually opposites attract not always but we're an unusual couple okay well in that regard though in the most usual of ways when you have an extrovert introverted person how can that extrovert be more aware of that it is a draining to an introvert to be around a lot of people so what can you say That makes sense. I'm an extrovert and I have many introverts in my family. And Roger is an introvert. And so I will sometimes I'll say, Hey, babe, would you be able to go work on something upstairs for me for just a few minutes? And that's my key to say, I understand the kids are making, you know, it's too much for you.
You're doing it for him. I'm doing it for him. Wow. And then I have a son who has social anxiety issues. And so he and I have a pre-arrangement that one, You come for 45 minutes and then you decide whether you want to stay or not.
When he was living at home, it was 45 minutes. I asked him to participate and then go to your room for a while, you know, go read a book or go watch a movie. And then when you feel like you've got that reserve built up, you can come back. For a long time, I was the guilt mom who said, Your grandmother's here, you know, you need to be here. But what I've come to, yeah, I can hear that.
Yes, but what I've come to understand is he's better for grandma when he is honored for who he is. And being an introvert and having social anxiety, I need to be able to say, you get to have a break because you're a better you when you come back.
Now that's good. In the book, you mentioned this idea of crisis creators. Boy, people are going, oh, I know that person. Or maybe some people are saying, oh, I could be that person. Define crisis creator.
And then let's get into some of the descriptions of people during Christmas and the holiday season. They do things that, you know, really. disrupt the events. I think the perfect one to talk about at the holidays is the self-sabotager. And this is the person who has the idea that basically they're going to remodel the house before the holidays.
So this is a crisis creator. Yes, this is a self-sabotager who says, I've got these crazy over-the-top ideas and I don't care if it kills me and everybody around me. They're going to remodel the house for the holidays. Exactly. Exactly.
I've got this list of a thousand things that need to be done. And here's the thing. There are some people who can transform their house. They just have that gene. They're the people who are the decorators and things like that.
But when mere mortals get those ideas, what we're doing is we're killing ourselves and we're killing everybody around us. And we think we're just doing it to ourselves. But what Sherry was saying earlier is so true. When her kids say, We want to have a mom who's present. And I think that it's so easy to think about.
Am I trying to make an impression this Christmas, or am I trying to make inclusion my priority? Huh.
So, how do you deal with the self-saboteur? Yeah, so I think there, as a woman, I will say, I love to make things beautiful. That makes me super happy. I love to make food that's wonderful, but I have to pick. one or two things.
I have to pick something that I'm going to excel at. And then the rest of it, we can figure it out.
So we just did, this was our most low-key Christmas we've ever done in our entire lives. And we did two things that we just turned it on its head. We didn't have any of the traditional food. We did something called rassolette, which is kind of a Swedish fondue where you grill meats and you grill cheeses and things like that.
So we did that. And then our main activity, we called it Christmas trivia bingo. And so we got $10 and $15 gift cards and we played bingo. And it was something that was so easy for everybody to be included in. Dinner was DIY because we sent out the cheese and the meat and the stuff and we said, go for it.
Everybody loved it. We kept it simple. And here's the thing: Am I looking at what am I impressing people or including people? And what's the holiday that people are going to remember when they felt loved and included? And we had people there from different faith backgrounds, different relationship backgrounds.
We had a blast. Yeah. And DIY, do it yourself. Right. Okay.
I got a simpler meal plan for you. Do it. It's called Delivery Pizza and All the Football You Can Watch.
Okay. That might not be as inclusive as you might imagine. Which crisis creator is that? Probably the selfish one. Yeah.
And then there are others, the whiner, you know, the person who is just going around and picking out everything. When you say, oh, I'm so disappointed because it wasn't like it was last year or two years ago or four years ago. This is good. You know, when your common theme is, I'm so disappointed, you may be a whiner. I'm just going to say.
And so the people who are not participating but are. complaining That is a crisis creator.
So I think if you're the one who's hosting and you know that that person is a crisis creator and they're the ones who are whining, I think this is a great clarifying question. What's going to be important to you this holiday that's actually doable? You know, we can't recreate the Christmas from 10 years ago. But is there a dish that would make you super happy?
Now, how do you do that without saying, in no uncertain terms, you're a whiner and I'm here to try to make you happy? You know what? I think you're saying, hey, I know the holidays can be really stressful for all of us, and sometimes things get missed. Is there something that would be really important to you this year that I could make happen? And if it's a certain dish, you know, they want to make sure, like for my dad, it was the cranberry jelly that came in the shape of the can.
Like to him, that is sufficient. Yeah, that was so important to him. I did not know that cranberries were actually berries until I was in my 30s. You thought they were gel? I thought it was just this gel sauce.
But you know, you can smash it so it doesn't have the canned shape. Oh, no, no, no, no, because then how can my dad slice it off and put it on his canned shape? Yes, that was very important to him. And so when I tried to get fancy, when I tried to get all fancy, and crushed the canned shape. Or, well, I thought, what if we had real cranberries and what if we cook those?
No. I just rocked his world. Yes.
And so he wasn't a whiner about it. But it's also something that if you have somebody who says it's not Christmas without, have them pick one thing. Also, you encourage people to determine the big deals and the deal breakers. Like you differentiate between the two. What are you getting at?
You know, big deals are things that are recurring but are manageable. Deal breakers are going to be the kinds of things where if it happens once, okay, if it happens a second time, there's going to be some really serious conversations. In both cases, these aren't problems that are solved. They're what Dr. Cloud would call a pattern.
They keep showing up over and over again, and having normal conversations isn't going to solve them. And so, for the big deals, you're going to have some family conversations and you're going to make some family decisions about how to respond to them. For the deal-breakers, that's going to be something where there's going to be some of the hard conversations and some of the harder decisions, including maybe not showing up for that family. Fill in the blanks for me. Give me examples of that.
Well, I think that if you have family members who are disrespectful to either your husband, your kids, or somebody that you have been charged by God to protect, and you've had the conversation, you've had the conversation, and the behavior is not changing. And so, I have kids who. Have taken different routes in life than I would have necessarily chosen for them. But we may disagree, but we still need to be respectful. And so I think that that's really important.
When there's been patterns of abuse, whether it's emotional, physical, whatever that is, and it's not changing, I think that we have to draw the line there. We have families who are from different backgrounds, and sometimes we've experienced racial slurs in our family, and we've addressed this. Several times, and we've had to say we cannot be around those type of things. As Christians, we have to take a hard line to sin.
So have courage. Have the courageous conversation first. The courageous conversation says, I love you, I want to spend time with you, but this is something that we can't partake in.
Well, you're listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and we've heard such great insight, advice, and stories from Kathy Lipp and Sherry Gregory about reducing or maybe even removing drama and issues that might come up during your family gatherings. And I think the best news is that those gatherings don't have to be full of frustration, and that starts with us. We have to make a choice not to get wrapped up in the tense moments and to speak up with grace when the situation calls for it. And then you can concentrate on enjoying the heart of the season with your loved ones and celebrating all God has done. That sounds very blissful and joyful.
And this is why Focus on the Family exists. We want to help you have the best relationships you can, whether that's with your spouse, your child, your in-laws, your friends. And we have so many resources to help you do that. First, let me mention our Caring Christian counseling team. You can schedule an initial consultation.
With them, and it's absolutely free, no cost to you. They will listen to your specific situation, pray with you, and give you a few tools to move forward. We also have Kathy and Sherry's great book, Overwhelmed: How to Quiet the Chaos and Restore Your Sanity. These two ladies share from their hearts to help you take a step back and work through overwhelming moments. And we'd like to send you a copy of that book when you make a gift of any amount to focus on the family today.
No amount is too small because it all goes toward the same goal: helping families. Yeah, donate today and request your copy of the book, Overwhelmed, when you call 800, the letter A and the word family. 800-232-6459. or donate and get the book online. We've got the links in the show notes.
Well, happy Thanksgiving to you from all of us here at Focus on the Family. And join us tomorrow. We'll have a special program reflecting on the pilgrims' journey to America as they sought religious freedom. This is what is sort of mind-blowing to me is that they knew that a lot of them were going to perish. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. God is at work, and He's calling His people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from Focus on the Family and the Coulson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs truth. Truth.
Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can become an agent of restoration and hope. Visit TruthRising.com today. That's TruthRising.com. Uh
