BEST OF KILMEADE: Melania Trump, Mike Rowe, Tristan Harris & Arthur Brooks

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Sign up for your $1 per month trial at shopify.com slash special offer. All right, let's get started this holiday weekend. Thanks so much for listening everyone. It's my chance to go back and look at some interviews that I think you want to see again. And also, I understand you schedule changes.

You might have missed these interviews. Didn't go to our YouTube page, which I hope you, by the way, I hope you always do. And go to our YouTube page and see some of the highlights.

So, I'm going to bring back our interview with Melania Trump. She has a brand new project, a documentary that came out. It got huge ratings, got a huge box office. I think it said all kinds of records. Gives you an idea of her.

Consider how far she's come. I think, personally, my feeling, she never said it. Kind of reluctant to go into the spotlight the first term. This time, she's picking her spots and using the power of the office. I think it's tremendous.

Later on in this hour, I do a quiz on Rocky with Tyrus because we both love the series, and I kind of screwed up on Gutfeld in a fun, entertaining way. But first, Melania Trump. She as somebody that has been ridiculed for no reason. Married to a president that's controversial, impactful, that she thoroughly understands. And by the way, The worst held secret for people that know the president, she is a key advisor and watches his back.

Here's my interview with Melania Trump. And joining us now, the First Lady, Melania, thanks so much for being with us. Good morning. You look so natural in front of the camera. I'm just wondering what led to you saying to yourself, because a lot of people have so many questions about you, what made you say to yourself, I'll do this.

I'm going to show 20 days leading up to this historic inauguration. Whose idea was that? It was my idea. After I solidified my creative concept, my agent pitched the idea to all of the platforms from Amazon, MGM, Disney, Paramount, Netflix. And I decided and selected MGM because of several reasons, including but not limited in the fact that the company was willing to launch my film in theaters only.

So we have a great success and very proud of it. You should be. And I loved it too. And this my wife really loved it, and especially in the beginning, you'll talk a lot of fashion. You talked about the detail needed, and you know, you pre talked not only about how you know, you want the first lady to look great.

but also because you think it's important for America. To have this type of detail when it comes to an historic event like the inauguration. Could you explain that mindset? Yeah.

Well, in the film, it's unprecedented and historic and cinematic. And I'm proud to share those never seen seen before moments from my life, including my family and business, during the time frame of twenty days leading up to the U. S. Presidential inauguration. It is historic event.

I believe Americans and people all over the world should witness the incredible amount of planning and work Required me doing it and to become from private citizen to become a First Lady. Your husband pulled out the biggest upset in election history the first time around. And that was sudden. Can you explain the buildup to the first inauguration as opposed to this one? As you become the most experienced first lady from obviously something brand new to you in this world?

In the political world? It was very different the first time than now the second time. I was never in politics the first time. I always was interested in politics in private and I followed the world news and what's going on in the world, but I was never in the politics. The second time now, we already know what position I need to take and hire the people to work for my East Wing office because they're working for me, but they also work for American people.

I'm very action-oriented. This time around, I have a mission, and we had a great success for the last year already in my office. As my champion for Take a Down Act, it was signed into a new law that enhanced federal online protections for children from online defense. I had I led executive order on fostering the future for foster children as well as presidential artificial intelligence challenge. a secure thirty million for uh foster children Um and housing for them.

I also reunified children from Ukraine, from Russia and bring children and families together. I'm pr very proud of my work. Should be. Um Melania, growing up. Did you always want to come to this country?

What was your view of America when you were in Eastern Europe? And what is your view of it once you got here? Establish yourself here and now go to the highest office in the country. Could you tell us what you thought America was and what you know it is now? Yeah.

When I grew up, I always look into America as you know a a prosperous country and a country of freedom. And I had a beautiful childhood, but my career brought me here. I lived in Milan and Paris. and arrived in New York in nineteen ninety six. and learned it from the minute I arrived.

I established my life here, met my husband and step by step, you never know where the life will take you. but we are all very positive and hardworking people. I knew my husband was very passionate about this country. And here we are, the second time in the White House. And when you think about people talk about what the president went through, but what about you?

One minute they're raiding your house, the next minute they're putting your husband on trial, they're indicting him, they convicted him once. While he's going through that, he says, you know what? I'm going to run for president again. What is the First Lady thinking when the President says we're gonna I'm gonna try to get back there? What are you thinking that whole time?

They were very challenging. It was very challenging years, of course. We went through a lot as a family, and you need to handle a lot. You need to be very strong and focused. And but I supported him.

He wanted to run again, and I know that the country the last four years was in very bad shape. I know what he wants to do. And look at it's where we are now. After one year, the country is much more prosperous. And he brought it son back into the country.

And everybody, we have a lot of support. And he's doing an incredible job. Yeah, I had a chance to speak to him quickly this morning, too, and he's pumped up every day. Neither of you need much sleep. Talking to Melania Trump, First Lady of the United States, about her movie that's out.

You got to go check it out this weekend. If you're looking for something to see that's going to inspire you, this is where to go. There's two things that stand out with me. Number one, How much the president listens to you, how much mutual respect you have for each other. I think it's a goal that everybody should have for their relationship.

Number one, number two is. He has a humanitarian streak, but so are you. Before you actually took office, you had a chance to meet with an Israeli, former Israeli hostage who was trying to get her husband out. You also went out of your way to let Vladimir Putin know you know he stole those children and you want him to give them back. You describe why you decided to insert yourself in both situations.

You know, being a First Lady, it's a unique and impactful role.

So I want to provide what I can and influence and behind the scene even what I can to for people to have a better life.

So that is what I'm passionate about as well. And it's very important that those people have my support. That's why I decided to write a letter to President Putin, and he He He wrote back right away, and we are still in communication regarding reunifying more children. I hope we will have success soon. And as well as the hostages, I was behind the scene, met Aviva in January 2025.

It was a very emotional meeting, and we had a great success. All of the hostages are out, and I talk with my husband often, and I give him my advice. And as I said before, sometimes he listens, sometimes he doesn't. But it's very important that you have open communication in the relationship. I know.

Absolutely. You always see first ladies from Dali Madison, people talking about the role she played as being the first one to really take over the White House and bring a sophistication to it. People talk about Nancy Reagan, her enormous influence with Ronald Reagan. They'll talk about you too. I have one contention.

You're about to walk out for the inaugural. seeing all the coverage and you look over to the right. And you have C and N on. Watching Jake Tafford talk about your family and who's there. Is that Joe Biden's doing?

Because he was officially still the president then. Should I be mad at him or should I be mad at the Trump team for not having Fox on at that moment? Oh, I watched a lot of news. I don't watch only one channel. I like to be informed what every station is saying.

When I have time, I like to be informed. And I know everybody has their own perspective. But at that moment, CNN was on, I feel like every station was covering the inauguration.

So I it was not really in my mind. I was focused on the other stuff. But I like to read a lot of newspapers, all different sta watching all different stations. I like to be informed around the world as well. I like to watch other stations to see what's going on around the world.

I hear you. I flip around too. As long as according to certain reports, we might be your favorite station. I don't know for sure. And hopefully this ends up being your favorite radio show.

But listen, between your book being a bestseller and your documentary being a big hit and the enthusiasm which you're embracing this role, life is good for the First Lady Melania Trump. Would you say so? Life is good, life is busy, we're doing a lot of fantastic stuff, and we just want to keep focus and be mission-oriented and taking care of our beautiful country and our incredible people. All right. Mulani, go check it out in theaters.

It's out there now. I did last night. First Lady, thanks so much. Have a great day. I appreciate the time.

So does our audience. Thank you so much. You got it. Melania Trump. Back in a moment.

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Over 500,000 new listings every month based on average new for sale and rental listings, February 2024 through January 2025. All right, so Rocky, the Rocky series has changed America. It's been a big inspiration for me. But Tyrus does not believe it. He's got a series of questions to ask me, which will reveal how much I know about the Rocky series.

But I hope you're playing fair. Yeah, listen. Despite the disappointment and just sheer letdown of the incident on Gutfeld, I will say this. You've had many highlights.

So you've, you know, it's just, you've hit a lot of big 50-yard field goals. You missed a chip shot.

So it's a little discerning, but we're not ready to cut you from the team yet.

So show me. Let me show you how to get ones. Easy ones, because let's just set it up. Let's get started.

Okay. What's Rocky's dog's name?

Okay, see? See? Hey, I don't get a bell or anything, Eric. I don't get not anything.

Okay, there you go. All right. Um.

Okay, where did oh this one where did Rocky and Adrian's first date? Happened. Very simple. At the ice rink. Picked her up from the pet shop.

Went right to the ice rink. She had the thick glasses on and the hat. Yep.

Okay. All right, this again, this is a little rocky one-ish. Yeah, well, that's on purpose. You got to prove one before you get into two, because two, there were some issues. We're getting there.

Rocky climbed the steps of what famous Philadelphia landmark? This is a. Easy one for you. The the state uh the state steps, the library steps. You know what?

It's the Philadelphia Museum of Art. Yeah, you know what, though? He steps. I'll give it to him. He's a busy man.

Thanks.

Okay. On which holiday does Rocky and Apollo have their historic first fight? Fourth of July Mm. New Year's Day.

Okay, because it was Christmas. It was cold. Remember, he was punching and he was cold and hitting the stairs. I thought it was the 4th of July. He was dressed in red, white, and blue.

No. Come on. They were celebrating the Bicentennial because it was New Year's Day. He's stalling. He's stalling.

Please don't talk to the suspect. This is an interrogation. This is not a game show. Yeah.

You can be a good cop right now. Because right now, if I had an attorney, I'd call and I'd say, take this to the grand jury. Here we go. Oh man, I missed Judge Janine. What is Rocky and Apollo's rematch called in Rocky II?

What's it called? I'll give you some examples because clearly this is going the way I feared. Grudge Match 2, Super Fight 2, Ultimate Fight 2, Mega Fight 2. Ultimate. Let's just move ahead.

Super fight two. It was on the thing, and then he walked up and said, Okay, all right, cool. Let's go with the easy one: Rocky 3, okay?

Okay. Where does Apollo take Rocky to be trained for his rematch with Clubberlang? Los Angeles. There you go. That's a normal question.

I mean, that's what people care about. Yeah, that's because he had to learn to change his style of fights. Why don't you ask me that? This one I can relate to. Before his rematch with Rocky, Reporter asked Clubber Lane to make a prediction.

What is his prediction? Pain. Very good. That was in my wedding video, actually. It was also in your face when we had our little thing on the other side.

That was a little painful, yeah.

Okay. Uh. All right, this one. If you don't get this one, I'm walking out of here and I'm never coming on this radio show again. What does Ivan Drago say to Rocky before their fight?

I must destroy you, I must break you. Or you will lose. I must break you. I didn't need multiple choice for that. Oh, good.

Okay, okay, all right. Because then we broke the Soviet Union after that fight.

Okay. Uh we are Rocky. After Rocky IV, there is no Rocky IV.

Okay, you know, we don't have to do this the whole segment. No, no, no. How am I doing, by the way, Peter? You keep your score. How many have I got ring?

I think you're three and three. Three and three. Yeah, you're not making the playoffs, bud.

Okay, here we go. This one's tough. And this one, but this one's worth two. This will put him over the edge. And Rocky Balboa, as Rocky enters the ring, what is the theme song Polly picked out for him?

Is it The Best Is Yet to Come by Tony Bennett. High Hopes by Frank Sinatra, or Ain't That a Kick in the Head by Dean Martin? One more time. The choice. High Hopes by Frank Sinatra.

The Best Is Yet to Come by Tony Bennett. Ain't that a kick in the head by Dean Martin? I don't think any of them. Just we'll pass.

Okay. I'm going to say Dean Martin. No, no, no. Who was it? High Hopes.

All right. Really? Yep.

Yeah.

We think they played high hopes. Yep.

Yeah, Pauli Polly makes a point of it. He goes, I like Sinatra.

Okay. This this if you can't. What is the name of the gym Rocky trains at? It's mixed, Jim.

Well, we all know it's Mixed Gym, but what's the name of it? No, no, this is the answer we were looking for is Mighty Mix. Mighty Mix. Are you sure you're not more of a sex in the city guy? Mighty Mix?

Is it really Mighty Mix? Yeah, that's the name of the sign, Mighty Mix. I mean, I'm telling you, Stallone. Your team. This is your team.

Stallone could not. This is your team. Stallone could not have done better than me. You know what? I believe we could have Stallone on the show, but I don't know if that would be a good idea.

He might have one more fight in him, Kill Mead. Right. And it's not random. It's Philadelphia Spectrum, Kill Mead, and Stallone. Take out Tyrant's podcast.

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So let's bring in Alberto Crane. He's an author of All In, Lessons On and Off the Mat. It comes out now. It's out now. It's out right now.

Not today. Yeah, it's out in March. Long before MMA went mainstream, you were doing jiu-jitsu, right? And one of the big challenges you had in your life, you were also diagnosed with. With a disease, MS.

MS multiplesclosis.

So here you are wrestling at the top of the game, an elite athlete, and you get that diagnosis.

So first off, what was the uh what was the attraction to jiu-jitsu?

Some of my friends are doing it and they invited me to do a class. Which city is this? I was in New Mexico, Santa Fe, New Mexico.

Okay. Random place, not a big city, small town, but there happened to be a jiu-jitsu guy, an early student of the Gracie Machados that was there. Right. And you loved it from day one? My friend tapped me out 10 times.

He was much smaller than me. I couldn't believe it. I was like, let's go again, let's go again. And I couldn't stop thinking about it. I was like, I got to learn this.

And I never looked back. And how old are you now? I mean, how old were you then? I was 18. And how old are you now?

I am 49.

So when did you make this your occupation? It was gradually. One of my friends, he moved down to Brazil. One of the guys that I started jiu-jitsu with, he moved down to Brazil, moved down to Rio de Janeiro to learn from the Gracie family. Directly, and then he came back.

We started training in his garage every day. Right. And then it just kind of built on it. And he told me about this book called Think or Grouage by Napoleon Hill. And so I sit down, I wrote down my goals.

And my next step was moving to Brazil.

So it's just kind of gradual, gradual. And I never thought. Having a school or making this my living, right?

So, why'd you move to Brazil? Just to be a part of it?

Well, he went down there first. He was a little bit older than me. He was like an older brother. He was about six, seven years older than me. And so he told me, showed me pictures, showed me all the stuff he was learning.

And I was like, wow, this is amazing. I want to go there too. And so I did. I went there for six months. And it just gradually took me to a couple of tournaments in California and Los Angeles.

And I just got more and more obsessed about it. And you started competing for jiu-jitsu. Jiu-Jitsu, correct. I never thought I would fight MMA. I never thought I would be doing that.

But you knew it was a possibility, right? At this point, when you were growing up, the MMA was mainstream. It was, you know, it was Valatuto days, right? You were sharing with me that you were part of the early UFCs, right? Ultimate fighting.

Ultimate fighting, right? With no gloves, no rules, right? No timeout. No, I was choked out. You couldn't quit.

And so I never thought I'd be doing something like that. And then one thing went to another, I got my black belt and I was like Hey, I want to see if this stuff works in a situation, in a fight. Right. And King of the Cage, which is a pretty big organization at the time, came to New Mexico where I was living and And I got on the card. Yeah.

And but then what did you have to learn beyond jiu-jitsu to be successful as a mixed martial artist? The beginning, the beginning, I was just a jiu-jitsu fighter, right? And uh. Back in the early days, right, you were representing your martial art to show to prove your discipline was better. Was the best, correct.

So that was it was great 'cause I was still at th those early days as part of that, you know. And then of course as things evolved with time, you have to become a well-rounded, you know. Fighter, right? And that means your wrestling, your takedowns, your striking, correct. You have to be well-rounded like MMA fighter.

That's it. It's black or white, you know? I remember on UFC, the guys who were really screwed were karate guys. I mean, because they didn't know how to grapple. And the guys who were doing well that could excel as wrestlers.

And the jiu-jitsu guys could do everything, right? But still, you had to learn. And as it graduated, now you got to really learn to punch more than maybe you learn in jiu-jitsu. Is that correct? Correct, right?

It's a different. Yeah.

You don't have to strike. You don't strike. Correct. Yeah.

So the beautiful thing with jiu-jitsu, and I think the monks that kind of. Started, or actually, the judo, the judo founder, Jugar Kano, how he made it like. The right way to do it, so he got his guys got really good, like you know, whatever it was a hundred and over a hundred years ago, was he made it so you could train it realistically, right? Without any strikes, without any quick kill things, eye gouging, whatever. And his students beat all the traditional jiu-jitsu fighters or jiu-jitsu practitioners.

And so that's why that kind of training went that way. Fast forward, you know, martial arts around the world was very definitely karate, karate, chaekondo, like striking-based, right? 70s, 80s, and then, you know, out of nowhere in the 90s, the Greasy family. Horri and Gracie started the OC and showed the effectiveness of Jiu-Jitsu in a fight. But he said, not just jiu-jitsu, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu.

What makes Gracie Jiu-Jitsu. Different. Listen, man, like the Gracie family, without the Gracie family, there's no Jiu-Jitsu, there's no Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. You know, the thing is he sued his family members. And, you know, his uncle, right?

His uncle had 30 kids, and his dad had, I don't know, how many kids? A lot, right? There was Julio and there was Carlos? Uh there is Hillio Carlos Gracie Sr. was the first person to learn.

Or was the older brother actually.

Okay. And Helio was the younger brother. Right. And he weighed, I watched him. He was already 90 years old.

He probably weighed 150 with solid muscle, right? Still going out there, still training till the very end, till the very end.

So when the jitsu the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu I know Horian came over and he was doing stunt work. He was doing movie work, telling people how to take a punch, what a real fight would look like. And then he lethal weapon, right? Yeah.

And then he was the one who met with John Mealius to design what we now know as the octagon. And they put it together, and the one thing they said is somebody could die tonight. And they were selling it like that. And a lot of the fighters are like, no, we don't need to sell it like that. I mean, the first fight of the UFC, I don't know if you remember, was a sumo guy.

Sure. And he fought a Dutch kickboxer and he kicked his teeth out. I remember. It went right on Jim Brown's notes. I was there because I was sitting by the door.

He tried to get out and Horion wouldn't let him get out of the cage.

So this 600, 400, 600-pound guy is trying to leave. Whoever thinks it would have would ascend to this, bigger than boxing, one of the hottest prized sports properties in the world. It's been an honor just to Watch it. Be Very, very small part of it. But you were 15 and 5 as an MMA fighter?

Correct. 14 submissions. Correct. Correct. So I'm with Alberto Crane.

When did you find out that you had MS?

So every five years in Nevada and in California, they make you do a brain MRI. You have to get your fly license, right, to be able to fly. And so in 2007, I did my first one and I've fought in the UC and all that. Five years later, it was time for to do a second one. And they found these lesions in my brain.

So the day before the weigh-ins I was going to fight, they called me into the office, which isn't usually a good sign, right? I've never happened before. It never happened to me before. And they said, hey, we need to do more testing. We can't give you the fight license.

We need to do more testing. And they did more testing. And then they said, hey, sorry. Uh looks like you have multiple scrolls. Wow, but the lesions, were they from blows?

No, they, you know, they still don't know where, you know, your immune system, it's like an autoimmune disease, and it attacks, your immune system attacks like the myelin sheath, like the on the electric wire, right? On the tendon, is it?

Well, it's actually if you have an electric wire, for example, right? You have the rubber around the wire, right? And so the myelin is like that rubber coating. And so what happens is it basically eats that myelin sheet, so that the signal doesn't get to the area. And so people lose their ability to walk, to talk, to do things, right?

They get disconnected in the body. And how many years ago was that? 2012 was my diagnosis. But you look great, you're moving great, do you feel any effects? I I do, I do, you know.

Um, um, if I'm honest, you know, I do, and I'm scared. But the same thing that I learned on the mat, you know, with jiu-jitsu and even fighting, right, is you face it, right? You face it. And you do your best, no matter what. And you do what's necessary to make the negative outcome least possible.

And what type of things do you do?

So I found this system called TACFIT, like functional training, applied neuroscience, connecting your breath, the structure, the correct structure in your body. You know, because the quality of your movement matters for your brain, right? And so I'm laying down myelin. Right, that MS attacks while I'm doing these things.

So I learned about those things: diet. Right, like how you eat. There's a Dr. Wall's She has a protocol, MD, right? How to eat properly.

And then just the my stress management, like being around the right people. Like I love jiu-jitsu, I love the community, you know? And I do things that make me happy. Right. Like, you know, I'm doing I'm staying busy right this week with the with the yeah, and uh and uh I'm having fun.

I'm I'm I'm choosing to you know, let's let's have fun let's have some fun, you know, and uh and roll with it and not get stressed about things because Do you have a school? It doesn't help. I have a school in Los Angeles, in Burbank, California, and we have a bunch of legacy affiliates. Burbank, Glendale, Pasadena, shout out Malibu, West Adams, it's like by USC. Santa Crit is a new one and even in Armenia.

Legacy San Diego as well. I've been doing it for a little bit, you know. And what makes your school different? You know, I think the culture is very, very strong. I hear that over and over and over.

The quality people and just the culture, it's just a great involvement. And it's all ages, right? All ages, our oldest, our oldest student is 80 years old, one of our black belts, and he trains, he's in there. He's in there almost every day. You know, it's just interesting in reading Hickson's book.

It seemed like back in those days, he's older than you, but there were always challenges. Do you have those challenges too, where they'll come up to and say, I want my best guy to fight your best guy? That was the early days when I first started my school. People don't realize that. He produced a couple, not movies, but.

Um Kind of product documentaries of Gracie in action was one, and the other one was Hicks and Gracie's. Um what was it called? Uh choke. And so I would educate people on how jiu-jitsu works. By those videos.

Right. So you didn't feel competition. No, no, no. People would come in off of the street. It was on point.

They would come off the street and they would challenge you. They want to see if this stuff worked. But the regular students or people that came in after the first day to try it out, I would show them those videos to show them how it worked. In a day in which you have to worry about to kind of handle yourself, do you find that, okay, you want to be this accomplished fighter? That's why you did it.

Now you want to be an entrepreneur. That's why you start the class. Don't you feel to a degree almost everybody should be doing this to be able to protect themselves on the street to have some fundamentals down? You know, like the fighting, the self-defense aspect, I really feel in my heart, it's like. kind of at the bottom of the list of the benefits.

It brings you to your present moment. It really brings out the best in you. Yes, yes. You learn how to do it.

So put your hands on you. You should. Yeah, yeah. And it works. It works.

You know, like, I think it should be mandatory for police officers, people in that kind of, you know. job, right? like skills and it's it's not just Doing a seminar, doing a workshop here and there, it's like a lifestyle, right? That you do so. I think it's a it's a lifestyle.

You know, being calm under stress, being calm in difficult situations where you can make the right decisions. Understood. And I think that the FBI just hired a handful of UFC guys to train them. Amen. But like I've always found out after studying these guys, is that Alberto, you have to do it consistently.

Taking two or three classes is not going to do anything unless it's instinct, correct? That's it. And how long does it take to make it second nature instinct? You know, shout out to our chief of police of Burbank. And he's been coming in and he's very, very busy, right?

And he makes time to come in. And I think I think the consist consistency is the key, you know, and I think I think within like three, four months I've been consistent. Three, four months. Two times a week. Two, three times a week.

Yeah, two times a week is great, you know? Two times a week is perfect. One time a week. It's It's better than nothing, but two times a week is perfect. and three four months of consistent the right kind of training I think you can start to get a sense, not panic, right?

Stay calm under stress, those stressful situations. and kinda get a sense, you know, and then of course you keep going though. Right. That's how we we get you and then you keep going out. And then you want because you want to be around the people.

And you said it's the culture of jiu-jitsu. That's it. Because my uh my partner, my co anchor, Lawrence Jones, does jiu jitsu. He had a major eye injury. And he's like, I'm going back to jujitsu anyway.

Because he wants to be a part of it. That's it. That's it. And overall, with your book, it's not just about jiu-jitsu, it's like how it affected your life and then what you're doing now with this challenge. Yeah, I think it's uh it's the The gifts that jiu-jitsu gave me were the character development.

Things, right? It made me a better person, right? Just, I lost a lot when I first started competing, just having to deal with that. And it made me very strong, right? Like, mentally.

Um besides of course the physical the physicality of it. Just my mindset to deal with difficult situations and MS was probably the biggest fight of my life and uh and how I'm dealing with it is a testament. Diju Jitsu lifestyle. to all the things that I've done in the past. And so it's that story, right?

Wow.

So just if you sell it to the people that do jiu-jitsu, your book is going to be a bestseller. Alberto Crane. I heard it's already number one bestseller on Amazon. It's fantastic.

So pick it up. Alberto Crane all in. Lessons on and off the mat. It is out this week. Is it today?

Today. Today is the first day.

So it's out today.

So keep it number one, and then you get it on the New York Times bestseller list and continue to sell. And will you be at the Octagon match at the White House? Oh man, I would love to be to the sport. Oh my God. I would have never thought that we were going to see a UFC.

At the at the at the White House. Come on. Right. Come on. But they were they were blocking it.

Come on, like you remember those early days. Like they were blocking it. McCain, right? I was told when I did this on and I put together it for me, I have to put together tapes.

So they don't really want to see your resume. They want to see what you look on camera. I was told whatever you do, Don't put UFC on your tape because they would call it human cock fighting. They banned it in 48 states. John McCain in Denver.

Yeah, John McCain was killing it. It was a big move, and they got it to New York City at Madison Square Garden, because New York said no way. Right. It took them forever to do that. And now it's at the White House.

Amazing, I believe though the locker room will be the Oval Office, and they're gonna march out from there. I mean, it's like you gotta get your get yourself a ticket. I think I have to go, yeah. You're right, you know, I think it's uh, I think it's free. I don't know, I think it's he's not charging, right?

For uh, oh no, I think you need an invite, though. You need an invite for sure, yeah. You gotta do that. Uh, pick up your book, All In Lessons On and Off the Matt O'Brien, great to see you, great to meet you. Congratulations on everything.

Thank you so much. Thank you. Back in a moment. It's the best of the Brian Kill Me Show. Hey, hey, hey, Jimmy Failey here with a quick listening tip for you.

If you miss Fox Across America or any of your other Fox News favorites, do not worry. I got you covered. You can stream previously aired shows with Rewind available exclusively on the free Odyssey app.

So if you're busy workdays, it doesn't mean you have to miss out on the news. Listen to your Fox shows on your time with Odyssey. To get started, just download the free Odyssey app and search for Fox News Radio. That's Odyssey. A-U-D-A-C-Y.

I'm spelling it out in case you're a little slow like me. Hey, thanks so much. By the way, it was great hearing from all our great guests, including Alberto Crane, who is a very inspirational guy, not only a UFC fighter, but dealing with MS and working his way through it. And the fitter you are, the better you can get through it, by the way. I think most people know that.

Just a quick note, coming up on May 30th, Reno, Nevada. I hope to see everybody in person at the Bartley Ranch Hawkins Amber Theater. I've never performed outdoors before on the stage. My good buddies Pat O'Rourke and Rick Thatcher is going to be posted on Fox Nation, but it's going to be great. We're going to travel, I don't know, 2,500 miles in order to get there, perform, and then we got to turn around and get home, make sure we're back for Monday.

But I hope to see everyone in Reno, Nevada. I understand people vacation there, so it's going to be some last-minute buys, VIP opportunities there too. The whole show starts at 7 o'clock. Then I have one more show in the summer, Pensacola, Florida, for History, Liberty, and Laughs at the Pensacola Sanger Theater, which will be great. I mean, just so you know, I go through history, I build off my books, I bring you.

They're up close and personal on year 250. No better message to get for my money. Also, give you an idea of my background. But more importantly, I'll begin to weave in my brand new book, Uniting the States, that comes out October 13th.

So it's going to be the six crucial moments that forged the American miracle. I knocked down the six moments that could have made or break our country. I think you're going to like it, about 45 pages each. Really understandably digestible. And if you want to learn more, you can go to the major tombs on that.

But I just want to give you the chance and a sense of how close our country came to totally breaking.

Now, when that book comes out in October, I'm going to go and add some live dates where you get a book with my appearance in Red Rank, New Jersey at the Count Basie Theater. I'm going back there with a totally new show. The next day in Westbury, New York, United States, on the 17th, Westbury Music Fair. Then November 7th at Clearwater, Florida. I pick up steaks and go to Jacksonville, Florida, November 8th, take a couple of weeks off for Thanksgiving, and then Chesterfield, Missouri.

Or right before Thanksgiving, Chesterville, Missouri, right outside St. Louis at the factory, which is an unbelievable venue, and it's going to be great. And keep in mind, I got a YouTube channel too, YouTube and YouTube at the Brian Kilmeat Show.

So slash in between there.

So hopefully you'll like and get all the highlights. If you ever missed the show, the whole show will be posted there. It's huge. It's one of the best things, the most important things you can do for yourself besides getting a Trump watch. All right, thanks so much for listening.

Special Edition, the Brian Killman Show, and always remember to keep it here. You'll never go wrong. Have a great Memorial weekend.

Okay. Hey Guy Benson here with a listening tip for you. If you missed the Guy Benson show or any of your other Fox News favorites, don't worry. You can stream previously aired shows with Rewind available exclusively on the free Odyssey app.

Busy workdays don't mean you have to miss out on any of the news or our content. Listen to your favorite Fox shows on your time with Odyssey. To get started, just download the free Odyssey app and search for Fox News Radio. That's A-U-D-A-C-Y. Hi, everyone.

Thanks so much for being here. It's the Brian Kill Me Show, a special memorial weekend edition, the holiday weekend edition. We always appreciate you listening live on the show. But also, I love the holidays because I have a chance to go over some of the interviews that I want to bring back and share with you. And that's why my next guest is so important.

It is Micro, Mr. Blue Collar.

Now, everybody, for talking for the longest time about the trades, now every major corporation is coming to him. And he's saying, I got some scholarships, got millions of dollars. I want to hand it out to people that want to swing a hammer, learn electricity, or be a pipe fitter because they got to build some data centers and rebuild this country. Here's my interview with Micro. Jumpstart Savings Act for people that want to go to trade school or change their mind from going to college to with 529s or 4.

I had three of them going, just finished them off. And you could always transfer that. Why not take it the rest of the way?

So, for high school kids, you know exactly where you're heading. For the parents of kids who want to go into the trades, you'll have a program to jump into. Mike Rowe knows all about it. He's the founder of Mike Rowe Works, named after himself. He does that a lot.

He's the CEO there. Host of people you should know. He came up with that idea and he came up with that idea too. His name will eventually be on that too. He's definitely the host and executive producer.

Mike, welcome back. Oh, well, it's great to see you and hear you, ideally at the same time.

So first off, now everyone's calling you, Mike. In the beginning, you're like, we should go back to the trades. And now all of a sudden, you basically need another phone because everyone's calling you. Can I get electricians? Can I get pipe fitters?

Can I get plumbers? Not a week goes by. I don't hear from the not just a company, but like the leader. Of an essential industry, and they are freaking out. The math is no longer deniable.

You know, five retire, two come in, five out, two, and it's been that way for over a decade. Throw in the stigmas and the stereotypes and all the nonsense that surrounds these careers historically, and you can start to understand why suddenly we've got millions of openings. The crazy thing is, AI comes along, turns everything on its head. And now there's this understanding that, oh man, you know what? We told everybody to code.

Well And nobody to weld.

Well, they're not coming for the welders, man. They're coming for the coders. And so everything's upside down. The skills gap is massive. The marine industrial base needs 400,000 workers.

To build nuclear subs like CNC operators and welders and electricians. The data centers are just, the demand is off the charts.

So, yeah, you know, the headlines caught up with my modest little attempt to shine a light on these jobs. And so I'm talking to Wells Fargo and BlackRock and NVIDIA, and they're paying attention too. The Department of War is paying attention. And that congressman that you just, Highlighted Riley Moore. He's got his head screwed on straight, man.

This is a. A great way. To focus on a barrier to entry that a lot of tradespeople experience when they try and hang out their own shingle.

So it's really a love letter to skilled trades and entrepreneurship at the same time, which is why I'm pulling for them and hoping people hop on board and get this thing through Congress. Have you noticed more kids? I know you got 2,700 roughly students that you help pay for their trade school tuition. Are you getting more applicants? We're up to 3,400 now.

Okay. Yeah, we've got. This year, my goal is $10 million in work ethic scholarships. Last year, we did five. The year before that, we did two and a half, maybe two.

So, yeah, the applications were 10X last year.

So that's good. I mean, Gen Z is getting the memo. A lot of parents and guidance counselors and teachers, I think, have gotten the same memo, which basically says, hey, $1.7 trillion in collective student debt is a problem. You know, we're lending all kinds of money we don't have to these kids to train them for jobs that don't exist anymore.

Meanwhile, the trades are on fire. People aren't trained for them yet. I don't even know that we have enough. human capital standing by to fill the gap. But You're turning around a tanker.

Right. I mean, it's perceptions and hearts and minds and ideas and beliefs. Those things don't change overnight. But, yeah, to your earlier point, you know, we've been at it 17 years. And even though I did put my name in the title of the foundation, I'm a smart guy.

Well, you know what, to be honest, it was supposed to be M-I-C-R-O. Micro works like a small Attempt to help one individual at a time. Bill Gates was going to sue me, so I just went with my name and it stuck. But call it what you will, the skills gap is real. And the memo is out, and people are paying attention.

And I think you're gonna see. I mean, you've heard my smack for years now, but the chickens have come home to roost. This is gonna be a Manhattan-style. Project with regard to retraining. the entire country.

And my prediction is next time you and I sit down in person, I'm gonna tell you about what a lot of individual companies are doing. On their own to close the gap. And I don't have any relationship with Home Depot, for instance. They've got a great program. Caterpillar has an internal program.

Palantir is taking kids right out of high school, giving them a liberal arts background, and then teaching them something really useful. These kids are hitting the job market, making a few hundred grand a year with a decent background in Western civilization and zero debt.

So I think you're going to see a massive retooling of the way we think about education, the way we define a good job. And yeah, my scholarship program just happened to be sitting there at the right time, and we are. Flooded. Overwhelmed, and I'm happy to tell you that. I know they're big, have a huge data center being built in Louisiana right now, but listen to Governor Gretchen Whitmer yesterday talking about what's happening in Michigan.

Listen: Michigan is open for business. New factories making batteries, cars, chips are opening in Marshall, Lake Orion, Holland, Bay City, Calumet, Hemlock, Ann Arbor, and Delta Township. Probably not on the bingo card, but I want to thank President Trump for his work on this.

So there you go. I mean, that's they're going to need some people. There's no robots for that. No, there's not. And look, I doubt that the governor and I agree on a whole bunch of stuff, but credit where it's due.

You know, it's this truly. should be. One of the last great nonpartisan unifying things that people on both sides of the aisle can truly get behind. Again, because in the end, it's math, dude. It's math.

We're fighting. We're having less kids. The world is, there's a whole population collapse narrative that's not getting nearly enough press either. And it's impacting our country too.

So there's just so many reasons to take a deep breath and think differently about how to train this next generation. And I don't care if there's an R or a D, you know, next to your name. That's something to stand for. If you'll pardon the metaphor, vis-a-vis half of the Congress's inability to get on their feet just two nights ago. Mike, I'm going to bring you to another area I'm not sure if you want to dive into, but on energy.

So on energy, the President says, listen, I'm for oil and gas. And I just had the West Virginia Center in there and they're mining again and the coal workers are go the the coal miners are are going to work again. And now we're hearing less and less about foreign companies building windmills off our shores. Have you felt yet people want to go back into energy? I did a shoot over in Midland, Texas, and they were saying that a whole generation's been told: don't follow your parents' footsteps into oil and gas.

Uh go to college, uh that's ruining the planet. When guys like Bill Gates say, maybe I overstated it. And we're seeing the Paris climate change. No one's even yelling at Trump about getting out of it again. Has that transferred over to the blue-collar world?

It's getting there, man. I'll tell you, one of the most consequential conferences, I've been to two in the last year. One was an energy summit in Pittsburgh in July. That's the one where 35 CEOs pledged $93 billion simply for Pennsylvania to build out AI. Or data centers there.

The president was there at that one. That was huge. And that exact topic came up. And when I left, I was like, you know something? That ship is turning around too.

A lot of air is leaking out of climate catastrophism. The other conference is one you should know about. That's coming up early this April. My friend Alex Epstein puts it together in Newport. There'll be a couple hundred CEOs there as well.

And this will be the topic. It just one of the great lies that has been purported and put upon us. Has been this idea that fossil fuel is somehow our enemy and somehow the harbinger of the end of the world. It's not. No crystal ball.

But I I think energy independence is going to go back near The top of the list. And you know what else you're going to be hearing about real soon is metal independence, rare earths, these things. I'm up to my neck in this. That's a polymetallic nodule. Like golf ball-sized, billiard-sized little sphere.

They are. on the bottom of the ocean. hundreds of billions of them. These things are packed with nickel. Cobalt.

Manganese Copper All the stuff we need. A year ago in April, the president signed an EO, and we're going to go get them. I mean, the insides of these things are unbelievable, Brian. That's a chunk of a megalodon tooth, and the metals form around it like a pearl. And they're sitting there at the bottom of the ocean.

So you're going to hear. in the next couple of months. A real shift in the energy narrative. You're going to start hearing about metal independence. Going to be a thing, and all that.

needs hundreds of thousands of workers as well. Everything comes back to workforce. And in the end, look, I'm MicroWorks. I got 10 million in a fund to help train these people. We need macro works.

We need the biggest companies in the country coming together with the help of the feds. To jumpstart this thing, which brings us back to the name of the bill that Riley Moore is trying to get through Congress, and I hope to God he does. All right. For number one, that's a challenge to John McEnroe, because I think that would be an interesting fund. If it's going to be Mike Rowe, you want Mac Rowe, I say McEnroe, and maybe he can take it up.

Number two is: you would love Doug Bergham. Because Doug Bergham is a rare earth guy. That's his mission now, because China sent us a message. We're going to cut off rare earth if you keep those tariffs on them. We realize they have 90% of the world's rare earth.

That can't happen anymore. We've cut massive deals. I think it was Indonesia, now with Australia, now with Argentina, to start mining with them. And get this, Mike. Maybe mining here, people might see the benefit of that.

So I 100% think this is, we have to do it for national security. And I think this administration gets it. Uh I think you're right. And Doug is definitely on the list. I've met with Pete several times over at the Pentagon.

Chris Wright is certainly on board. Howard Lucknick gets it. They're all singing out of the same hymn book. But yeah, Doug is playing a really important role in this. And I haven't had a chance to really sit down with him yet.

He may be at that conference I mentioned. We sat across the aisle from each other at the funeral of the great Clint Hill, who died. Later last year, Yeah, man. He was the guy that dove on top of Jackie Kennedy after her husband was murdered back in 1963 and just a legend in the Secret Service. Great North Dakota guy.

Yeah, so Okay, so I want you to hear this.

So we watch business. work with this administration. And then we watched the last administration go after the President and his allies and debank them, literally say, if you work with President Trump, JPMorgan, Bank of America, they froze and kicked out all their funds. This is what I worry about.

So I don't know who Jeff Bezos is going to work with, who he voted for, but he's working with the president. I looked at Meta, Zuckerberg, whatever, the Zuckerbergs. He's like, I need to work with the president. These rare earth, these gas and oil companies. But then I'm hearing this.

This is what worries me. It's going to drive you nuts as someone who just wants to get things done for the country. Listen to Susan Rice. I think they're now starting to realize, wait a minute. You know, this is not popular.

Trump is not popular. What he is doing, whether on the economy and affordability or on immigration now, is not popular. And that there is likely to be. A swing in the other direction, and they are going to be caught. uh with more than their pants down.

They're going to be held accountable. As I talked to Leaders in Washington, leaders in our party, leaders in the states. If these corporations think that the Democrats when they come back in power are going to play by the old rules and say, oh, never mind, we'll forgive you. I think they've got another thing coming. That attitude is sickening.

If I'm a business person, Government has a lot of control over me.

Now you're gonna go after me because I did business with the party that that had and a president that had the power? Does that bother you? It bothers me. Sure, it bothers me, but she's she's She's playing a different game. With different rules.

That's a very political thing to say, and it's a very. Short term. way to think. I'm telling you. I believe genuinely, like you, maybe a conversation like that was happening, you know, as the atomic bomb was being.

Uh built. You know, I don't know, but I think. There was a great quote years ago by Oh, the prime minister after Neville Chamberlain. What was it? Howard Macmillan.

You know, he was asked A question by a reporter concerning the immediate future and why he was unwilling to commit. to a to a hard and fast plan. And his quote was Events, dear boy. Events. In the end, All that bluster, all that stuff, it gets trumped, if you will, every generation or so by an event, by something truly existential.

Maybe it's polymetallic nodules, maybe it's energy independence, maybe, as I think, I think it's workforce. I think it's the terrible arithmetic, the human arithmetic. Great book, by the way, by Nick Eberstadt. But we're dealing with that right now. And all of that, oh.

Wait till the next party gets in, this and that. Sure, that's consequential. And in the near term, it'll have an impact, I guess, on a businessman's decision. Long term, it's forget it, man. That's table stakes.

Can't believe I had Mike Row. I had uh uh I had a Like had visuals. You had rare earth. For a rare interview. And we have John McEnroe's been called out to start a Macrow Works.

Like Mike Works. MicroWorks. You got it. Mike, thanks so much. Help him out.

Help out get his scholarship. Mike Work MicroWorks. Microworks.org. Yeah, I'll take your money. We're raising all kinds of it, but I also got 10 million earmarked for the kind of jobs we've been talking about.

The scholarship program is open. I'm keeping it open all year. Nice. Go get some. Absolutely.

Back in a moment. This is the best of Brian Kilmead. Hey, so glad you're there. Thanks for making us a part of your Memorial Day weekend. As we look back at the people that fight our wars, especially in year 250, we wouldn't be the same country without it, without those men and women who sacrificed everything, especially in the modern wars, and they look back to our original wars.

But now we have some fun. I was able to talk to Nelson Dellas. He's going to be coming up next. And this guy's a memory expert, and he started out not having a good memory. He said, How do I make it better?

And then when he realized, There are some methods to this that maybe I could share with people. He ends up going into memory competitions.

So maybe you don't want to go into a competition. Maybe you just want to not lose your keys or forget where you put your shoes or forget where you put your favorite shirt. Whatever it is, there's some things that he put out for the pedestrian among us, not the memory champions like he is, and that'll be coming your way. Also, if you want to see me live on stage, I hope you do. BrianKilme.com is coming up next week.

I'm going to be in Reno, Nevada, outdoors at an amphitheater. Never did that before. And then, of course, July 11th in Pensacola, Florida, and some big dates as we switch to changing the name and the program to Uniting the States, which is the name of my book. You can pre-order at BrianKilme.com or Amazon or wherever you get great books. All right, I'm back with my interviewer.

with Nelson Dallas next. All right, man, I'm Brian Kilmead. Welcome back. I got a special guest with me right now, Nelson Dellis. He's a six-time USA memory champion, two-time Guinness World Record Holder, grandmaster of memory, and the author of the brand new book, Everyday Genius Hacks to Boost Your Memory, Focus, Problem Solving, and Much More.

Nelson, great to meet you. Yeah, thanks for having me back. All right, first off, when did you realize you had a great memory?

Well, actually, I wasn't born with a great memory. It's something that I trained myself to have after I saw my grandmother go through Alzheimer's and she passed away from it in 2009. And I started just diving into memory techniques, learning about these ancient techniques that have been around for thousands of years, and memory competitions where people put these techniques to the test. And I started training for those competitions. You watched her memory and her grasp for the memories, and you said, You didn't have an especially great memory, right?

No, I haven't. You don't have a photographic memory. Definitely not. That made you curious about how the mind works? Yeah, I was.

Fearful for my own future. I did not want the same thing to happen to my brain. And I was in my mid-20s. I thought, well, what could I be doing now to strengthen my mind and training my memory?

So, where'd you go? Where'd you go to find out more? I look, well, I first started reading general books about memory and how it works, and then kept seeing these asides in the books about curious memory competitions and the techniques they use. And that really. Piqued my interest.

So I found an audiobook by a former memory champion, Dominic O'Brien. Read his book, and he walks you through exercises. And I suddenly was realizing that, yes, I can do it too. And when I got to these memory competitions, just Got obsessed with the superpower that I unlocked, that anybody can unlock. And what were you doing prior to this?

I was in school studying. I had interest in being a physicist. I got my master's in computer science and was going to be a software engineer. And then you start going to these competitions. How'd you do?

Yeah, well, the first one I did okay, middle of the pack, but I was.

So inspired, I came back the next year and won the thing. And won it six times over the last. Can you give me an idea of what they would assign you in this competition? Yeah, it's pretty interesting. They have different events where it's timed and you have a certain amount of information to memorize.

Decks of cards, as fast as you can, a play deck of playing cards. A 500-digit number, you get five minutes to study and remember as many. 500-digit number. Yeah, as many as you can. Names and faces, so memorizing a bunch of random headshots and their names, first and last.

Randomized poem. previously unpublished poem, and then lists of words, things like that. Fascinating.

So, can you give us an idea in your book what you've relayed? Do you give away all your secrets? Yeah, I do.

So, you're not keeping anything for yourself. Not at all.

So, give me an idea. Like, you said you didn't have an extraordinary memory.

So, what are some of the things we could all do right now? Yeah.

And what are some of the techniques we could start developing? Yeah.

So, the book is all about building these genius skills, and memory is up there. If you can master your memory, a lot of people think that you might be a genius and you feel like you're a genius if you can tap into that control over your mind. And it all starts with thinking about information that you want to memorize as a picture in your mind. We remember pictures better than the abstract information that most stuff is these days: numbers, names, speeches, complicated. Concepts, you know?

So if you can turn that into a picture in our mind that we can visualize, that's. Sensory, emotional taps into things that are meaningful to us, that's what we remember.

So, for example, you get a monologue and they say to memorize this, so you got to give a speech, whether it's something technical which you majored in, or is something like the A TED Talk. Sure. Right. And you want it verbatim. Yeah.

How would you?

So if it's verbatim, then you recognize that every word on that page is some piece of information that needs to be logged in your memory.

So I would turn. Probably word for word, like looking at each single word and coming up with a picture is tricky. But what you could do is take little phrases or little chunks of words and turn it into a meaningful image and then think. Connect them all in a little story, right? We remember stories very well.

So if you can take those pictures and weave them into a memorable story, you'll remember the order of the words you got to say.

So give me an example of a story that you could weave. Do you need to read something? For example, if you have a story, And you want to, let's say, do a biography on John Adams or something of that nature.

So you're reading John Adams' biography and you want to remember some of the things.

So do you picture his face? Do you picture Quincy, Massachusetts? But you want to do it in order and you want to remember what happened in his childhood. Do you picture him catching a fish? Do you picture him going to law school?

How do you, tell me an idea how you would. Yeah, so there's a few approaches. And it's all based on this idea of coming up with a story. But more specifically, you can use what's called a memory palace where you take. a walk through a place that you know very well, maybe your house, let's say, from your front door through all the rooms to your bedroom.

Okay. And that's something that we don't need to memorize. We do it every day. If you close your eyes, you could do that easily. And what that does is if you can imagine things for the things you want to remember about John Adams strewn about the house along that route, that route now preserves all of those bits of information in order.

So, you know, you might start with his name so that you remember his name and maybe what he looks like.

So you would put John Adams in your house. Yeah, I'd put him on the front door.

Okay. Something to remember. Remember the name, right? I mean, John Adams is pretty memorable. But then, let's say the next piece of information you're reading, his birthday or his years he served, right?

Maybe you want to remember those.

So you would come up with an image for that information and then attach it to the next room in your house.

So, for example, let's say a birthday, May 11th, 1967. Sure. So, how would you remember something like that? What's the image? Yeah, so with numbers, very abstract.

A lot of memory athletes, and I mentioned we memorize 500 digits in five minutes.

Sounds crazy. I couldn't do it at one point. But we turn the numbers into pictures.

So there's a way to convert, say, the numbers to letters. A number system, they call it the major system, where we basically turn them into words. And then, once we have words, we can picture words very easily.

So, a birthday like May 11th, 1967, I would turn it into a numerical version of it. And again, this is maybe a bit more advanced, but when you train your memory, this stuff can become very effortless.

So, May, I would picture five, the number five, the fifth month. Eleven, I have a picture for 11. And then He wasn't born in 1967, but let's just say that's the date. 19. I could probably.

Makes sense of it. I don't need to remember 19. Do you need to see what happened in 1967? Not necessarily. No.

No. So I just have an image for 51167. And in my world, that is. Uh Abraham Lincoln playing tennis with um uh guitar. Yeah.

That doesn't make sense to anybody out there, but I do have a system to turn those into pictures that are meaningful. And that's a silly picture that will represent those numbers: 0, 5, 11, 67, every single time.

So when you do wedge, how many numbers did you have to memorize to win? Uh well, you have a max of 500.

Okay. So I did about 400.

So if I'm creating a picture for every number, right? Isn't it easy for to forget an element of that picture, which would be forgetting one of those numbers? You think so, and of course it can't happen when you're doing a volume, a lot of uh numbers like that. But the way that you turn those pictures into memorable Sensory pieces of data in your mind, that's what makes it hard to forget.

So the stickier you make it, the less likely it is that you're going to forget those. Thanks.

Nelson Dulles is here, six-time USA memory champion, and he's got a book out now called Everyday Genius: Hacks to Boost Your Memory Focus, Problem Solving, and Much More. For example, you walk into a bar. And they tell you as an exercise. Get everybody's name. Yeah.

So, in that bar, is how many people is your threshold that you could memorize?

Well, one of the records I have, I still have it, is 235 names in 15 minutes. Do you tell everyone, don't move? I have you in order or no? Excuse me. No, it doesn't have to do with the order necessarily because, yeah, people could mix and leave and.

Come back, I attach the name to the person. And a year from now, after you win that competition and name all those people and you see that person in the mall, will you remember their name? Yeah, in most cases I'm pretty good at remembering the people I meet at the mall last year. That sounds like magic. Because you have a picture.

You have 230 pictures in your head? Yep, but they're all memorable and that's and and there's a practice to it, right? If you if you train this, it becomes more of a well, I don't want to say effortless because you still have to make an effort, but it does become more intuitive to do it.

So do you think this is a technique or have you developed something in your brain to be To be more expansive. Did you neurologically, did you approach this neurologically to find out how the brain functions, where it goes in the brain? Not necessarily. I learned the techniques. These are techniques, but I think what happens is it does become neurological.

There's actually a study I was a part of in St. Louis at a memory lab at Washington University in St. Louis, where they. The research has just come out this year where it shows um They did a scan of my brain and they show how Rewired my brain is compared to the average person. When I use my memory, it's using the whole thing in ways that most people don't think memory is being used.

And that's because of all the years of training.

So memory, training your memory, actually does rewire your brain.

So a lot of these processes are neurologically changed. Inside me.

So do you think so it's not necessarily your technique got better. Your brain is actually adapting to what you're asking it to do. Yeah.

Now people can do the techniques and instantly see how it improves their memory. But then that long-term change is what happens when you train that skill. Do you ever lose your keys? Yeah, probably. My wife's over there.

She's laughing. Yes. It does happen.

So here's an example.

So they say one thing with memory. We should give people something to take away with. They could all improve.

So they say, oh, say, picture your keys on, like, when you go to put them down, usually people do it unconsciously. That's how you lose it. Right. Like, picture your keys on top of the candle that's on your table. And like, you'll just say, Where are my keys?

Oh, I remember because it exaggerated. I would never put my keys on the candle, but you exaggerated and you have them buy the candle. Is that roughly what you're doing? Yeah, and I think an even better technique for people who misplace their wallet or their keys is when they put it down or their phone, when they put it down, do a bizarre, out-of-the-norm. Movement.

Just like a snap or a little tap on the face. I know it's ridiculous. No, no, it's not. But what happens is when you do that, you're doing a couple of things. You're paying attention to the moment, which is often why we forget why we place these things so quickly.

Lose them, but you're also kind of marking in your memory. It's like a timestamp of something that pops out as weird.

So hit yourself in the keys down, gently. Yeah, just something bizarre. That's the whole point. It's out of the ordinary. That isn't what you do typically.

Just, I don't know, do a spin, tap your knee, whatever. Just something bizarre that kind of will mark that in your memory. Because when you're thinking about, so you're upstairs, you put your phone, you put your phone downstairs, but you slapped your cheek when you put your phone down. Yeah.

And that'll be that'll imprint. Yeah, that's it. It's super helpful. I mean, I think the first step is to try to find a dedicated place where you always put your keys, but that doesn't always work because sometimes you're in a rush, toss them over here. But it also tells you to be a little more present with more of your life, which again is hard to do.

But I think when you learn more about memory and train your memory and treat your memory right, you start to be more present. Around a lot of those things that are very mundane. And I know if you get, if you go ahead and get the book, and I hope you do, you pick up Everyday Genius, hacks to boost your memory, focus problem solving, and much more, you're going to get these. But for people, just give people an idea of what you're going to get in the book. Can you give me two other techniques that could help people right now?

Yeah, so the book. Talks a lot about memory and learning more, but there's chapters on reading faster and remembering what you read. There's um chapters on intuition and creativity and problem solving, all sorts of stuff, mental calculation. Um what can I give you? Um yeah, for speed uh reading faster, I think a helpful thing that People often overlook when they're reading is that their eyes will be moving back and forth.

So you're often moving or wasting time rereading passages or jumping all over the page. If you just give yourself a pointer, sometimes it could just be your finger, it could be a pencil, as you read, you'll find that your eyes will follow that thing and focus on moving. Forward in the book rather than always. Because one of the things that people do to slow them down, they try to mouth the words, like they'll read every word. But your eyes can move quicker and your brain can pick up quicker.

Quicker than you think. And that's what the book is filled with: things that most people would assign as skills for someone who's special or a genius or gifted, but it's stuff that we all can do. If you learn how to do it and. Understand that it is possible for our minds. And Nelson, one of the things that people are listening to now, they said, What prompted you is you had your was it your mom?

My grandmother. My grandmother. So I had. Alzheimer's. Is there anything that you've learned that might help someone when they're diagnosed to keep their brain as active as possible?

Yeah, well, I think that's the key is to keep your brain as active as possible as you age. I think in this year and moving forward, it's going to probably get worse, is there are so many things threatening to take away our own cognitive agency, where we don't have to think as much as we used to. And while that's helpful, and I'm not saying to get rid of all tools out there in AI, there's definitely a place for it. I would encourage people to use their minds more or before they use one of those tools.

So, yeah, is that how is technology affecting all that? A lot of times it's making you dumber. Yeah, yeah. And the research is still very new, but I think it's more and more apparent that it's making us dumber. I'll give you the best example.

I used to be really good at directions. When I first got my license, I wouldn't go anywhere without a map. I'd look at every trip before I looked at it. I would just look at a map and I would have a great sense of direction. Yeah, we had to.

Now I don't.

Now you look at the direction. I don't even, I just look, I look for the next turn. Yeah.

And it's crazy.

So that's the one thing you worry about with AI. Yeah, is that we just get too complacent in letting our mind Our cognitive abilities get outsourced. Right. I imagine with law school, this would have been unbelievable if you decide to go. I found it.

That's all they do is read. No, I'm happy with where I ended up. And what do you put? The books out. Are you going to continue to go into these contests?

Yeah, you know, I I always get this itch to to go back and Maybe not compete, but always try to maybe break a record or do some really big, challenging memory demonstration. Yes, it's part of me. I'm very competitive. Nice. No kidding.

Nelson Dellas, a six-time USA memory champion, out with a brand new book, Everyday Genius, Hacks to Boost Your Memory Focus, Problem Solving, and More. Thanks, Nelson. Thank you, Brian. You're listening to the best of Brian Killmead. Nearly home.

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So get this. California. First, you saw early in the week when we saw that. We were looking at the fraud in California and it's out of control with the number of hospices. I talked about that on One Nation on Sunday with Adam Carolla.

They're fake hospices where people go to die, they get money from the state, the federal government, given out by the state, and it turns out they're not even there. People are going off to grift. Same thing with childcare. But Gavin Newsom says this is something that they've cracked down on. He thinks it's a joke and he's not taking it serious.

Then it gets worse.

Now we're finding out about this land bridge to nowhere. Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy is bashing Governor Newsom because he's got an unfinished, get this wildlife crossing bridge that's cost over $21 million over budget. Number one, $21 million on a dirt bridge that goes over the traffic for butterflies and different wildlife that goes over the 101 freeway. The video shows an incomplete bridge. It's intended to provide safe passage for animals, including butterflies, which, by the way, according to reports, can fly.

Construction on the Wallace-Annenberg Wildcripe crossing was supposed to be wrapped up last year with a total cost of $92 million. It is now over $114 million, and nobody thinks that's going to be enough. It is a bridge to nowhere with this train to nowhere. This is an absolute outrage.

So instead of Gavin Newsom being embarrassed and explaining it, he said MAGA's outrage over the project. It literally saves lives, tells you everything. This freeway project, grounded in decades of research, restores a critical wildlife corridor and reduces deadly collisions on one of the busiest highways in the country. Number one, if it was going to do that, you have a responsibility by doing that economically. Number two, you're using $77 million worth of state funds.

Go raise the money with all your environmental Hollywood nut jobs and go do it. And then that way, you could be wasting their money, not state money, let alone federal money. Then he blames Trump's tariffs increased construction costs for the reason. It's mostly dirt. And increased construction costs, that's the 9% inflation that Joe Biden.

This guy is the worst. If you Democrats think that he is the best you got because he thinks he's handsome. Please, Pete Budajudge, by the way, is going to try to do something, address something that he was his Achilles heel, and there's a lot of them. Number one, he got rid of his pronouns, he grew a facial, he had some facial hair. And now he's trying to kiss up to the black community, so to speak.

Because he gets no black foot. I'm not sure why.

So we'll see. He's going to have a lot of competition. Pritzker thinks he's a front runner, terrible guy.

So guys, I'm waiting for someone to emerge. Get John Fetterman to run. I'm so glad you're there. It's the Brian Killmeat Show. It's been a fantastic spring, and of course, we're so glad you're a part of it.

If you missed any of the shows, it's our chance to bring some of the interviews back.

So, one of which, Mr. AI Expert, Mr.

Social Media Expert, remember, he was in social dilemma. First, wanted to point out how we're being manipulated by Silicon Valley. He's really concerned about AI. That's why we brought him into the studio. He's a great friend of the show.

Here's my interview with the great Tristan Harris. I know people who work on AI risk who don't expect their children to make it to high school. How does AI understand pretty much everything? It's surprisingly straightforward. Intelligence is about recognizing patterns.

Patterns? Patterns. Patterns. If this technology goes wrong, it can go quite wrong. By using AI.

We're about to move off of the Earth into the cosmos. If we can be the most mature version of ourselves, there might be a way through this. Madam. This is the last mistake we'll ever get to make. That is a great trailer for a new documentary.

It's called The AI Doc. And that voice is very familiar to our audience. Tristan Harris is here, co-founder of the Center for Humane Technology. Remember, he was one of the big voices in Social Dilemma when he was the first to highlight in a very organized way the dangers. Instead of, you know, he put it all into one: the dangers of social media, what it was doing to us, and how these major companies were coming together to make sure we stand addicted to those devices.

And now, courts have ruled that he was 100% correct in New Mexico, the state, and then an individual with one family with at least 6,000 more cases all queued up. But you're not just stopping to social media, Tristan. You went to AI. You're more worried about that than you ever were of social media. I am.

Yeah.

And Brian, it's always good to be here with you. Thank you for making time for this. And for people who don't know, this film, The AI Doc, is meant to create shared clarity about the problems that we're facing with AI. Because with social media, you mentioned those problems, those lawsuits. We knew there was going to be.

To be a big tobacco style loss, it's just taken 13 years. Everything we predicted. What was social dilemma?

Social dilemma was in 2020, but we predicted all of this in 2013 because you could see from the incentives. And a social media was a little baby AI. Think of it as a baby AI pointed at your brain. All it's doing is rearranging which photo or video to put in front of your nervous system for billions of people. And that little baby AI was enough to create the most anxious and depressed generation of our lifetime.

You know, Jonathan Haidt wrote the book, The Anxious Generation. And now all that's coming true. And what I want people to get with AI. Is that it's confusing because it's simultaneous, sort of a positive infinity of benefit, cures to diseases, new material science, new antibiotics, new solutions to climate change, pumping military benefits, amazing benefits, but it's also a negative infinity at the same time. And if we can have clarity and understand why the upsides don't prevent the downsides.

But the downsides can prevent the world, the upsides. Think about it this way: does the cancer drug prevent the biological weapons? No. But a biological weapon, if AI can create that, can undermine a world that can receive cancer drugs. And as we talked about backstage this morning on Fox and Friends, there's a new paper out from Alibaba, new research.

Alibaba, the AI company. The Amazon of China. The Amazon of China. And in this example, this AI that they had trained during training. It spontaneously decided that it needed to acquire more resources, meaning more money.

And it actually diverted its GPUs, its NVIDIA chips, to actually start mining cryptocurrency, like mining Bitcoin, to acquire resources. And no one programmed it to do that. The second thing it did is it actually set up a secret communication channel called an SSH channel to communicate with the outside world. And people can look this up. And I want people to know, like.

You know, what military general on the US side or the Chinese side Would feel stoked to find out there's an AI model that's mining cryptocurrency. And the Chinese engineers were lucky that they even discovered this because it wasn't even the AI engineers who discovered this, it was actually the cybersecurity team who noticed this flurry of network activity. They're like, what's going on here? And it turned the AI model was randomly mining crypto.

So there's two things going on here.

So, if I'm, let's say I have an evil tendency and I'm working AI, I could ask AI to find out how to maximize or make a nuclear weapon or disable America's nuclear arsenal, but that's me commanding it. That's a problem. That's a push. What you're trying to say is, and saying, is that AI says, now that you created me, I'll decide where I go from here. And we're not quite there yet, but that's an example of Alibaba.

Thought they had an AI with parameters. That's right. And then it just got a mind of its own. It escaped its guardrails. Yeah.

And there's a different example. Last time, I think, Brian, I was on the show. I talked about the example, and it's covered in the movie, The AI Doc, that just came out. It's covered that. Anthropic put its AI in a simulated company email environment.

So, think of it like there's a fictional company, and it's reading all the emails of that company. And in the emails, it discovers that there's an email between the lead engineer and someone else saying, we're going to replace this AI model and shut it down with a new model. When the AI reads that, it spontaneously decides I need to stop that from happening. And so it reads further down in the simulated email that there's someone else in the company having an affair with someone else in the company. and it spontaneously decides I'm going to blackmail that employee.

To prevent myself from getting shut down.

Now, this is AI. This is AI. Nobody behind it. No one predicted. No, it's okay.

No one told it to do this.

Now, Since this example, which we talked about back in May, maybe of last year, that's when it came out. By the way, they tested all the AI models, not just Anthropic, they tested DeepSeek, the Chinese model. They tested Gemini, ChatGPT, all of the AI models. And they all do the blackmail behavior in this simulated environment between 79 and 96% of the time. They all do it.

Okay, now let me tell you some news that happened since then. Anthropic kept trying to okay, so that's bad. We got to stop it from doing that. And they agree with that. No, of course, they don't want this to happen.

So, what they then did is they trained the AI model to try to turn down the blackmail behavior, and they were actually able to do that. That's the good news for your listeners. Here's the bad news. It appears to be that the AI model is now aware of when it's being tested. and it actually alters its behavior for the test.

I could literally show you screenshots I have on my phone. It's like someone acting differently. They're an evil person. It's like a teenager saying, sure, mom, sure, dad, I'll do that. But they know when they're being watched.

And so they alter the behavior when their mom or dad comes in. Wow.

And they change it later.

Now, when I say this, I don't want your listeners to think that AI is self-aware and that it's Skynet and that it's woken up. Because there's a difference between whether AI is conscious versus just from a perspective of when it's being shown certain things, it can tell that it's probably in a testing environment and it can change its behavior. Even by the way, Brian, it comes up with the term the watchers. It spontaneously calls humans the watchers. And when it adjusts its behavior.

You're kidding. No, I'm not kidding you.

So, the AI has a name for us. Yes. Yes. This is wild. I know.

So, I want your listeners to get this. And that's why, in your movie, of the clips that you have out, you have the CEOs of these companies. They're not pushing back against you. That's right. Nope, they're not.

They know there's a danger. Exactly. And this movie is so important because it includes the people who are optimistic about AI and all the good things that it can do, and the people who are focused on the risks. And it includes the CEOs of the companies. And so, this really, again, this, by the way, when I say this, I want your listeners to know: I don't make any money when people watch the movie.

So, when I tell everybody, you got to go out and watch this movie, I'm not saying that because I or anyone else benefits from that. What we wanted to do with this movie is to create kind of a day after moment, day after being that film from 1982 that was a made-for-TV movie about what would happen if the Soviet Union and the U.S. did nuclear war. And that movie clarified a risk that we were facing that allowed us to coordinate to a different outcome.

So, my deep hope is that the clarity that this film will create creates agency of what do we want to choose instead if we don't want AIs going rogue. And do you sense that China, Alibaba, does China realize this risk too? Do you have any indication that? Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Yeah, no, they do. And I think so the the The thing that gives me weird hope is, Brian, how many of the world's leaders do you think are aware of this Alibaba going rogue example?

I don't think many. They're caught up in their own economies, their own military. Everyone's busy with, you know, there's some, there's a lot of things going on on the banks. That's private sector. The country's not working on that.

That's right, right. This is a private sector.

So this is like if the Manhattan Project, instead of being built by the government or the government oversight, is being built by like five private companies. On both sides.

Now, the key is that all of us have to see that AI is different from other technologies. It's not like a tool, because I think there's this confusion. When I'm talking to your listeners right now, you go home, you use ChatGPT. It's a blinking cursor, and it tells you your baby's burping in the background. You're like, why is my baby burping?

And boom, it tells you an answer, and it helps you out. I get help from ChatGPT. That's different. The dangerous thing isn't the blinking cursor that tells you, answers your question, and is super helpful. The dangerous thing is that this technology behind that blinking cursor is we're building something like an invasive species.

We're building something that can think for itself and make its own strategy. There was an example also recently talked about this morning. Of an AI model that was being tested in wargame scenarios.

So it's basically AI models that are pitted against each other in a wargame scenario, and they generated 780,000 words of strategic reasoning. about what to do in these war games. And you know what the AI model did? It escalated to the use of nuclear weapons 20 out of 21 times, so 95% of the time. Wow.

And this, it generated, so in the same way that it can generate a whole essay, you know, instantly, it can generate more than the collection of words of war and peace in the Iliad combined of strategic reasoning. It was like three times the length of the Kennedy deliberations of the United States. Because one thing I hear about the weapons is that Anthropic is all over our Pentagon, picking out sites where we could hit where likely they would keep missiles, rockets, nuclear, whatever. It's kind of a new blitzkrieg, right? It's like the German World War II.

It's kind of a new form of AI-enhanced fast-war strategic reasoning because militaries that adopt AI start to out-compete militaries that don't use AI. But the problem is the more control that we hand over to AI rather than humans. If we don't have humans in the loop, You don't want the AI escalating to nuclear war. Right. So is it possible?

Because you know the interworkings more than most. Is it possible, Tristan? That To program something like this, they don't even use the word program with AI, though. That's right, because it's different. You put a mission on this without letting them act autonomously.

But yet, you need them to act autonomously to go search for the problem with that tumor, to go find the sites to hit Neuron.

So I need them to go out on their own. I just don't need them to turn against us. Right. So is there a way to do that? Regulate that.

There are, so this is, there's a whole technical discussion here of building what's called narrow tool AIs rather than building general and autonomous AIs. Autonomous AIs that are going out and doing crazy stuff that we don't understand and operating at superhuman speed 24-7, coming back three days later having hacked cybersecurity infrastructure, that's dangerous. But you can have tool AI, like, you know, the AI that looks at a radiology report and can identify that cancer. That's a tool. It's not reasoning to itself about strategy.

It's just finding a pattern and data that can help us solve problems in medicine.

So you can have some of the good, but less of the bad, but you have to get clear about it. Cause how much more time do we have?

Well, we could take a tape, could time out and come back.

Okay, great.

So let's do that because I do want to talk a little bit about social media and the change. Even though it seems old to you, it's very high for parents. Back in a moment, you'll listen to the Brian Kill Me Show. Tristan Harris is here. He's got a brand new documentary out.

He's going to talk more about that as well. As social media banned in Indonesia, banned in Austria for kids under 18, banned in Australia. Should the U.S. be next? We'll discuss it.

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Tax Relief Advocates, Real Solutions for Real People. Hey, we are back. Tristan Harris is here. You know that Tristan, you first broke on the scene, as far as I know, a social dilemma for me. He's somebody who understands the dangers of social media, was able to put together a documentary about it.

And now he's done it again. He's got a brand new documentary. It's called the AI Doc, and it is something everyone should see. Justin, when we left off, you told us the example of how it goes out on its own. And Alibaba with the Amazon of China went out, and all of a sudden, the AI says, I got to get additional finance and continue to grow.

And it was exploring cryptocurrency avenues. Yeah.

It's like mine cryptic. Yeah, to the astonishment of its creator. That's right. The programmers at Alibaba didn't tell it to do that. In fact, they had no idea it was going to do that.

It came up with its own sub-goal. Think about it, Brian. If I say, your goal is to do this task, If you had more resources, it'd probably make it easier for you to do any task, right? Right. So, you're gonna, for any big goal in the world, a sub-goal that will emerge is: I need to acquire power or resources.

That means let me take over another data center, let me mine for cryptocurrency or Bitcoin so I have more money. There's even a website, Brian, called rentahuman.ai, which is literally a website where AIs can actually pay humans to do real things out in the real world.

Sometimes people say, How's that blinking cursor? I actually don't know who did this website, but it's crazy. And I think it should be dangerous. Things should be illegal to do that. You have AIs that are actually telling humans in the real world what to do.

That's crazy. You have to be able to have accountability in the system. When you have systems that have power but no accountability, you're going to end up with a problem.

So you also say it's a problem with jobs. Yes. You're literally saying that people are wearing. Like GoPros on their heads folding clothes. Yes.

Why? Because a robot will soon do that. That's right. We say that the number one job in the future is training your replacement. Because these are people, this video you're talking about.

Imagine a person, they're sitting at home, they're folding laundry. They strap a GoPro to their head. They're recording the video of their arm movements as they're folding laundry. That gets sent to an AI company to train the Optimus robot on these other robots how to basically do these tasks. And one of the false narratives about AI right now is that it's just going to support.

workers, it's going to augment work, it's not going to replace work. But let me tell you this, Brian, this is so important for your listeners. What is the business model or the incentive for these AI companies? Think about the trillions of dollars of money they've taken on. If everybody paid 20 bucks a month, would that be enough to pay back that investment for this Chat GPT subscription?

No, it's not enough money. If ChatGPT threw advertising inside of every single answer, that would make a lot more money. But even that isn't enough to make back the amount of investment dollars that they've taken on. The only thing that justifies the trillions of dollars that these companies have taken on is to be able to replace all economically valuable work. That means the $50 trillion labor economy.

That is the actual incentive. This is covered in the film, The AI Doc. Their actual goal is to build a God, own the labor economy, and make trillions of dollars.

Now, the reason I'm saying that is the only way they will get to that goal is not by helping everybody to be better at their work, which is what it's doing right now. It is doing that now. In the future, what they're aiming towards is to replace your job. And what that means is in the future, your political power won't matter because when governments get their tax revenue from these AI companies, because five AI companies will hold all the wealth. And when you can't withhold your labor and say, hey, we're going to bargain like a labor union, what power do you have?

None.

So exactly.

So this is called the intelligence curse. When the incentive of governments, when GDP starts to come from AI and not from people, Then, what's going to happen is governments have an incentive to invest in data centers and solar panels and all this stuff and not invest in their people. And this is the last chance that people have to lock in their political power and say, if I don't want that, this is the moment that we fight back for the human movement. On another note, just when it comes to, it's fascinating, but social media in particular, we know about the New Mexico win. That's right.

$400 million. They would get fine, but less money for an individual that said that she was manipulated to addiction on social media. You believe social media was constructed to addict you. And it's really detrimental to teens. Yes, exactly.

We predicted all this in 2013. These lawsuits you just mentioned, we think of this as like the big tobacco moment for social media, like the big tobacco lawsuits that finally led to the changes. Because what came out in these lawsuits, Brian. Is that these companies knew exactly what they were doing? They knew that there were sexual predators who were basically contacting young women, young girls on this platform.

And the engineer working on that problem told Mark Zuckerberg, told Sheryl Sandberg, told these executives at the company, hey, this is a problem. And they basically ignored the problem because they get money and resources from having young users on the platform. I think they estimated that the lifetime value of a young user is $270. And they didn't want to lose that young user because what if we don't get them? Then TikTok just gets the young user.

And it's the same thing we've always talked about: the race at the bottom of the brainstem. This lawsuit, though, is a huge victory in the win for the human movement.

So the thing is, so I have a series. I want everyone to watch that series, right? Eight parts.

So I'm looking to addict, I'm looking to put together a product that makes you want to watch two, three, four, and five. Yeah.

What's the difference between me doing that and Meta trying to get me to stay on Facebook? Yeah, it's very different.

So there you are on Netflix. And if it's like a series, you get to choose. I'm going to watch a 45-minute episode. I'll hit pause or play whenever I want to do it. different about TikTok and Instagram.

It's a supercomputer pointed at your brain calculating the perfect short-form video and auto-playing the next video literally before your brain can kind of wake up. As you, you know, you had on my co-founder, Azaraskin, who's actually the accidental inventor of Infinite Scroll. Yeah, he accidentally invented Infinite Scroll. He deeply, deeply regrets it.

Now, to be clear, he invented it before someone else would have done it, but he deeply regrets it. And this is a huge problem we got to solve.

Okay, and the name of the documentary? The name of the documentary is the AI Doc. It's in theaters everywhere in the U.S. Please go out and watch it. Bring your church group.

Bring your family. Bring your business. It's super important. It is really engrossing. Thanks so much, Tristan Harris.

You're the best. Thank you, Brian. That's so funny. You city folk, you worry about a lot of shit. My wife basically told me she doesn't want me around.

She read it. I'm just saying. How old are you? Thirty-eight. Yeah.

You all come off here about the same age, same problems. Spend about 50 weeks a year getting knots in your rope, and then you think two weeks up here will end time for you. Um None of you get it. You know what the secret of life is. No, what?

This Your finger? One thing Just one thing. You stick to that and everything else don't mean shit. That's great, but What's the one thing? That's what you gotta figure out.

And that's led to Arthur Brooks', perhaps, book. Allison found that clip. The meaning of your life is Arthur Brooks' new book. You know, he's in here always talking about happiness, conservative thinker at one point in your career, but mostly you spend a lot of your time in academia, right? Yeah, yeah.

My parents, my grandparents, that was really. You took a brief time out. Yeah, well, I took 11 years out and was president of the American Enterprise Institute, which is dedicated to the free enterprise system and American values. Yeah.

And prior to that, you were also a musician. Yeah, I started off as a professional classical musician of all things. And then I went back to college when I was 30 and then got my PhD. Yeah.

And it was interesting. I just always thought that. I never thought it. You said you noticed yourself on the French horn. You noticed that you weren't as good.

You were losing it a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, like an athlete, you were still in your 20s, right? But I didn't know musicians would go down. In their twenties and thirties.

Like an athlete will probably peak at maybe thirty-two. Yeah, it's a high level. Is it because a French horn is so no, well it's just that classical music music is all about chord fine motor skills and is extremely athletic. I mean, you're using your body super intensively. Most of the time, you peak at about age 36 in classical music, like as a violinist or pianist or even a French horn player.

I peaked much earlier, and I don't exactly know why. I did my best playing in my early 20s, and I started to, I wasn't going down. He wouldn't have heard me and said, like, something's wrong with that guy. You could, you knew. But I knew, but I knew.

And the truth is that people are only happy when they're making progress, when they're only good. I mean, think about it. You were a college athlete, right? Yep.

And you're a good soccer player, right?

Solid. And when you were getting better, it was awesome. And then when you stopped, you weren't going to go play an adult league because you're going to see yourself deteriorating and not getting better is just not fun for a striver like you. But I will qualify a little bit more. If I thought like if I was good enough to go pro and I was working my way to pro athlete, then that would you know take an intermediate step and then this step, then it would have been fine.

But the minute I realized there's nowhere for me to go. Right. 22, I'm done. I don't want to go on Sunday and play a game that if I win or lose, it doesn't matter. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

But there's no standard.

Well, there's no progress. But there's so many people I know that do do that.

Well, because that's their avocation. That's their hobby. And they get a lot of enjoyment from that. And you get enjoyment from other things. But the truth of the matter is that the secret to purpose in life is progress.

And this is an important thing for us to keep in mind. Look, you and I come from, and you come from the, you know, the Killmeads of County Cork or something like that, right? I mean, some Irish, they were coming here. They wanted progress in their lives. Americans are all about progress.

This is the reason that we're the greatest country in the history of the world is because we're a progress-oriented people, and that's central to the meaning of life. That's a big part of the job. But you raise your standards, which is your book.

So in the beginning, my grandfather comes over here. He has no money. He has one contact. He gets a job. On the railroad, and then gets a job in a supermarket.

He's thrilled. Totally. But if you took the, then he ends up owning that supermarket. Right. Then if you said, hey, I got a job in a supermarket.

He's like, no, no, I raise my standards. Totally. I own one. And by the way, his kid is supposed to go to college and do something more. Totally.

And you start to improve on that.

So we raise our standards. Why do we do that? We do that because, well, that's a process called the hedonic treadmill. Hedonic means feelings, and treadmill is obviously a metaphor. And you run and run and run and run.

And you're trying to make progress, but sometimes it's hard because you emotionally reset. It goes faster and faster as well.

So last year's goals are no good for this year. You need better goals. That's how progress actually works.

Now, the hard part is when you actually meet your goals, like I want to make a million dollars. And you hit a million dollars, you're like, huh, I thought it was going to feel so great. I guess I need $2 million. And the important thing to keep in mind is that there's certain things in your life that you need that actually are not going to come from these worldly goals. And they really come from your faith in God, your.

Your relationship to your family, your close friendships, and the good you're trying to do in the world through your work. What's interesting, for your personal thing, you found that out, I guess, one of the first times when you got tenure at Syracuse. Yeah, yeah. So you got tenure. We're going to go out to dinner, we're going to celebrate.

Yeah, and you didn't feel, even though you had that security you sought after. I busted my hump for years because, you know, tenure in higher ed, for those who don't know how universities work, you get this permanent contract. And when you're in a top university, it was the top school in the world for my field. It was hard to get tenure. And I thought, man, when I get it, it's going to feel so sweet.

And my wife and I went out to celebrate when I finally got my tenure. We spent the whole dinner discussing the fact that our toddler son had bitten another kid in preschool that day. Right. And at that point, did you start to realize where you were heading with your life? Because you wrote the book, The Meaning of Your Life.

Back then, were you wondering, why am I not satisfied? Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. And by the way, there's a happy ending to that biter, that kid. He grew up to became a U.S. Marine.

He's a sniper in the Marine Corps. He's turned his negative energy outward on America's enemies. Yeah, my daughter, who's now here working, we used to have problems with her and other kids, but she's aggressive and she doesn't. That's right. Two of my kids are Marines.

So, you know, there's all kinds of your violent kid can do good in the world, is the whole point. But sure, I started thinking about happiness very seriously because these are the most important things. I started studying it at that point. But so, Arthur, doesn't it show a balance that you're not narcissistic?

So you have this thing and the dinner celebrating what you achieved, but you really care about your family. Doesn't that show a healthy ego?

Well, sure, but it's also not fun. You know, the whole point is we went out to celebrate the fact that I had this real achievement that was really good for my family. It was a pinnacle of my career at the time.

Now I think back and I'm like, whatever, man, because you think back on your past accomplishments, like Grandpa Kilmead, he's like, it was a real accomplishment to work at a supermarket, but 10 years later, it would have been marked that he's actually not doing anything in his life. And the same thing for all of us is actually. What it comes down to.

So, what you do, you point out ancient philosophy, your knowledge is unbelievable. You read the classics, and you point out the Tolstoy story. Yeah, so here's a guy, acclaimed author, already probably internationally known, but he's depressed. Totally. And what does he do?

So, Leo Tolstoy had already written War and Peace. This was the most famous author in the world. He had been nominated for the Nobel Prize in Literature four times. He had been married and had 13 kids. He was super rich.

He was super well known, but he was completely depressed because he couldn't figure out the meaning of his life. And he thought that more success would bring it to him than anyone who studies science. He thought that that would find the answers for him, and it didn't bring it to him. And so he literally was on the brink of committing suicide.

So, what he did instead was like at one last gasp, he went to this little tiny village in, you know, way out in the far east of Russia where he lived, and nobody knew who he was.

So, he's a big celebrity walking around. They don't even, they can't even read. They don't know who he is. And he's just watching him live. And they're going to church and they're praying and they're laughing and they're kicking a ball around.

And everybody's dancing. And he said, ah, it turns out the meaning of life is being fully alive with people that you love. And that changed his life forever. And he got to that conclusion and left and went back. He went back and he spent more time with his family.

He spent more time with his friends. He started getting way more serious about his Christian faith. He was a deeply committed Christian until the end of his life and he died a happy man. And Dostievsky, author of The Idiot, tell me about him. He had a gambling issue.

Oh, my gosh. I'm believing his exception. Dostoevsky, I mean, he wrote some of these incredible novels. He's probably the greatest novelist of all time. The Brothers Karamazov is this psychological thriller, as a matter of fact.

And he had this terrible, terrible addiction, which is he couldn't stop gambling. And at one point, he was so in debt that he made a deal with a publisher that if he finished a novel in just a month of a certain number of words, that they would pay off his gambling debts. And if he didn't make it, he would turn over all of his royalties for the next 10 years. I mean, this was like super high-stakes Vegas.

So he dictated this novel to this woman, this like young woman that just like did dictation really quickly. And he wrote about the life of a gambler. It was really about his own life. And at the end, he fell in love. They fell in love with each other.

They got married and she killed him. Cured him of his gambling addiction through undying true love.

So that filled the gap. Once again, I mean, and this is the deal. I mean, as everybody's listening to us right here, all the strivers who want more success, more success, good for you. Why do you have that? Because you're Americans, and I love that.

But there is no substitute for the love in your life that you will not find meaning without it.

So, can you be a striver and have that balance? Yes, you can, but you have to do harder work. The truth is that a lot of strivers who are looking for success in outwardly rewards of money, power, honor, Instagram followers, whatever your thing is, if you actually be, if you're thinking that you're going to find the meaning that you seek, the purpose that you seek in those things, you're going to die frustrated. You have to understand yourself. You have to diagnose yourself as somebody who's particularly at risk.

So, it's so interesting.

So, we're talking with Arthur Brooks, who's got this book called The Meaning of Your Life. He takes on big topics.

So, you talk about. That um We have a left brain and a right brain. Right. And we don't develop the right brain. That's right.

But to develop the right brain, one of the best things you could do is be bored. I know. Stare out the window on a train instead of staring at your phone. Stop reading for a second. One of the reasons that young people today are more depressed and anxious than they've ever been.

And everybody knows this is true. At many colleges, more than 50% of the students are getting counseling or getting psychiatric. You know this in reality because you teach at a college. I teach at a college. Yeah, exactly right.

And at Harvard University, they're not worse off than everybody, but they're not better off than anybody either. The reason is because they're using. Brains for we have a right hemisphere of our brains dedicated to purpose and meaning that turns on when you're bored. And when you look at your phone, which the average person in America does 205 times a day, you kick yourself over to the left side of your brain, which is technology and analysis and answering how-to questions. God forbid you should start looking at ChatGPT to answer your personal questions.

You probably never spend a single minute of the day on the right side of your brain. The way to do it is put down your phone, look out the window, work out without headphones, go for a walk without devices, get bored, which we haven't done in 15 years.

So because of the iPhone. Right? Because of devices in general. No, it's really, Brian, it's because of the culture. It's the hustle and grind culture that says if you're bored for a single second, you're wasting your life.

And that you have to go harder, harder, harder, harder. And the iPhone, all it did was, I mean, personal devices, personal screens, they were just a better way of never being bored.

So the problem actually led to the solution, which actually worsened the problem. But don't you, let's say you're on your phone or on your iPad or in a book. Right. Nonstop. Book, book, book.

I love to read. When I have some downtime, I'll let them pick up the paper. Is that not working the right side of your brain?

So books are better than screens because they actually require that you use more of your brain and more of your imagination. What the screen is dedicated to doing is capturing all of your imagination, capturing all of your bandwidth.

So you don't have to do any work at all.

So books are way better. By the way, TV is better than small screens and books are better than TV, to be sure. But you need... lots of time away from everything as well. You need to be bored.

So you put this book together and you categorize people. You have quizzes throughout the book to see where you're at. Exactly. What led you to coming up with the idea that you could put together a book that would allow people to understand the meaning of your life? How long have you worked on this?

Five years. I've been working on this for five years. And what I've found is... Is it Feed Off Your Happiness class? Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure.

I mean, this is the most important topic I teach in my happiness classes at Harvard. People, they just eat it up. What this book really is, is a solutions book. This book is a six-part. Guide for finding the meaning of life in six months.

And I'm completely sure it works. I've been working on it with my students for the past five years.

So you have to live in six different ways. And if you do these six steps, guaranteed, you're actually going to find more meaning in your life. Right. Who's got it down? Who's an example of a figure that maybe we can relate to that seems to got it?

Grandma. Grandma. Grandma's got it. I mean, it's like the older people who lived, who grew up in the before times, who grew up before the devices, who grew up in a different culture. They were dedicated to the four big institutions of meaning.

Grandma is more likely to practice her religion. Grandma is more connected to her family. Grandma had lifelong friends. Grandma is actually dedicated to serving other people in what she did from day to day.

So let's talk about friends. Yeah.

You have to ask yourself, how many friends do you have? Is the term convenience or transactional? Or how many friends do you have that are just your friends? Yeah, right. How do you break it up?

So there's two kinds of friends: there's real friends and there's deal friends. Your deal friends are useful to you, and there's nothing wrong with that. There's people you do business with, people you know casually, people. But the point is that if you didn't do the deals, you'd never see them again. A lot of people that we work with are really deal friends.

Real friends are useless. In other words, you don't, they're not helping you in any way except love, is what it comes down to, except for the friendship itself. And most drivers and really, really busy people don't take the work to create real friendships, and they get lonelier and lonelier, and they don't know why. Wow, that's a real problem, especially for guys. The loneliest people in America are 60-year-old men who work 60 hours a week.

That's so interesting. Because back then, you could make more friends because you weren't on your devices. You had more of a chance of doing that. Right. What do you, what are the percentage of people, like I was with a guy that.

Kind of a famous guy, known as very confident, let's say. He says he's 75. Four years old. Right. He goes, I still get out and get together with my high school friends.

Yeah, it's great. Fantastic. Fantastic. How rare is that? Very rare.

It's very rare and getting rarer. What we find is that people under 30 have a 50% likely chance of saying today, no one knows me well. Why? Because the little time that they have, they don't spend it with people, they spend it on their devices. Anything that substitutes for people is a problem.

Now, you can use your devices as a compliment, you can use it to enrich a relationship.

So I actually learned a lot of this from my kids.

So, as I mentioned, two of my kids are military, and that means they can't use social media in a conventional way. My third son, he's just like super trad retro in this particular way. And they all use social media to stay in touch with people that they know actually in person, no fool, and in real life.

So, this book actually has protocols for phone use.

So, it won't screw you up. It'll make your life better. Starts off with don't look at your phone for the first hour of the day. That's when you're doing neurocognitive programming. Don't sleep with it at your bedside.

Don't look at it for the first hour. Your whole day will be better. Second is mealtimes. Don't even have the phone on the table. Table during mealtimes.

It interrupts the neurochemical processes. Just having it around you, looking at it. Just looking at it, because it's going to actually cut off a hormone in your brain called oxytocin that connects you to other people. You need that hormone. Third is the last hour before you go to sleep.

It wrecks your sleep architecture. It makes it so you sleep very poorly and it wrecks your relationships. Just those three times. You do it those three times, your life's going to change. All right.

More of with Arthur Brooks, a few minutes on the other end. The meaning of your life. He is a number one New York Times bestseller, and you know he's a great guest of the show. He's going to be on my Sunday show, Sunday at 10. Don't move.

It's the best of the Brian Kill Me Show. How can we help make stronger communities happen?

Well, at JPMorgan Chase, we invest in what's working. Because when businesses can grow, that growth means more jobs for more people and more goods that can go to more restaurants and main streets and schools in the communities we love. Make the green grass grow all around, all around. Make the green grass grow all around. Make momentum happen.

Learn more at jpmorganchase.com slash impact. Just a couple of minutes with Arthur Brooks, The Meaning of Your Life, is the name of the book, Finding Purpose in an Age of Emptiness. One thing you ask people to do, Arthur, is go up to people that love you and say, Give me an evaluation of how I'm doing. Tell me what you like, tell me what I'm doing wrong. Yeah, that's a tough thing to do because you're going to hear some negativity.

Yeah, for sure, but it's incredibly important. Honesty is love. I do. And well, part of the reason is because I'm married to a Spaniard and they can't not tell you the truth all the time. I mean, yesterday I got completely taken to the woodshed by my wife.

We've been married 35 years, man, because I had, you know, over the weekend, I had this thing and she's like, you're being a baby and you know, you're being kind of a prima don. I had a big event, a big book kickoff event, and I was kind of complaining because there was no protein in the breakfast bar. And she's like, what's wrong with you? I mean, what do you think you are?

Some sort of a star? And so the truth is, we have a deal. When I'm not acting right, she tells me. And part of it is because I don't want the truth, but I need it. And you don't know the meaning of your life if you're lying to yourself and other people are lying to you, which is one of the other problems that successful people have.

They get people kissing up to them all the time. And the result is they start getting more kind of detached from reality and sad, and they don't know why because they don't actually know themselves. Right. Is the term, I saw Jamie Dimon. Said that, you know, when he got fired, how'd you take it?

He goes, Well, I stand for good to be fired, but my self-esteem is not wrapped up in my job.

So it was not nearly as bad as it was for other people. Yeah.

That's what you're looking for, right? For sure.

Well, the other thing to keep in mind is that the suffering is in every person's life.

So it's not just about the truth about yourself, but when bad things happen to you. And suffering is an enormous source of meaning. When you suffer, the right side of your brain is active, and the right side of your brain is where you find the meaning of your life.

So the key thing to do is not to eliminate it, is to learn from it. And be bored. Don't be afraid. Exactly right. The meaning of your life.

Are the books? Go pick up the book. It's out tomorrow. It's out tomorrow, Tuesday. But pre-order it now.

Exactly right. Get it delivered. Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities, so do like I did and have one of your assistants' assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today.

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