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There's a call in scripture for us to use that kind of discernment and wisdom that you're talking about. And uh is it necessary for me to say this at all? Is it necessary for me to say it at this time? Is this person exhausted and they're not in a mood to be able to receive this at this point?
So, I mean, those are the kinds of questions that we should ask. Dr. Emerson Egrich joins us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And thank you for being here. I'm John Fuller.
John, you consider yourself. A communicator? I mean, you're in the communication business.
So I am a communicator. How good I am is another matter. Has Dina ever said you sit there at the table and hear these experts? How come it doesn't seep in? I am sure she thinks that she wisely doesn't say too much of it.
No, that's how about you? Yeah, okay, yeah. I mean, I think I've heard that once or twice. But that's okay. I mean, nobody's perfect.
But the, you know, I think the point is communication is critical between human beings. I think it all starts with like expectations, and then we dash those expectations, and something we say, it may even fall out of the character of Christ. I mean, the fruit of the Spirit is what we're supposed to be doing: love, joy, peace.
Sometimes when we speak, this weekend. I had an example. I was already convicted when I was looking at our guest book because I went to get a breakfast sandwich at a particular place. I get to the store like three miles away, open the bag, and it's not my order.
So I'm thinking, okay, what do I do? I'm already a little frustrated.
So I go in pretty straight. I was trying to be, you know, reasonable. Lord, help me in my attitude. I just kind of said, yeah, this isn't my breakfast. Do you have my breakfast?
I go, we do have your breakfast and gave it to me because it was a drive-thru. It went well. It went well. But I still had a little bit of. Attitude, which I was saying, Lord, forgive me, but that's kind of communication as well.
It is, and that's really what we're talking about. The small things that add up to maybe the big things. Dr. Emerson Egrich is an internationally known speaker and writer. He talks about a concept he calls love and respect and how it applies in all avenues of life.
He's written a great book about this topic of communication called Speak Your Mind: Evaluating and Unleashing Your Communication Strengths. I love how positive this book is. It's a great resource. Find out more on our website, and that's focusonthefamily.com/slash broadcast. Emerson, welcome back to Focus on the Family.
Good to have you. Oh, it's great being with both of you again. Yeah, so much fun. I thought you might call this, let me give you a piece of my mind. I mean, that's kind of where the culture's at today.
We seem very divided. We seem like I think social media has probably fomented this a little bit. There's an anonymity to social media. That we can speak our mind. We do need some filters, don't we?
Yes, yes. In fact, you've touched upon so many themes already that are so important. I mean, I think the one is that I think we all want to be better communicators. In fact, it's been researched that people fear public speaking more than they do getting cancer. Wow.
When you do the, you don't ask that question that way, but when you do the social fear in speaking, then getting a diagnosis. And we've had those negative experiences in school where we've spoken up and we said the wrong thing, or the teacher said we said the wrong thing. And so I think there's a feeling of inadequacy. I think many of us pull back from speaking our mind because we don't know if it's going to be received well and we don't have the confidence in that. And so I think many of us struggle on that level.
But then you've got the other blunt people out there that are just without civility, to your point, that are just shooting out comments. And they feel the total liberty to do that. And the question is, is that going to influence the hearts and minds of other people? Let me ask you, like, social media is a giant experiment in my head. The fact that people feel that anonymity to just say what they think and to be cutting and people's response that you get clicks.
More so, it seems. By doing that, people want controversy. They want to see a kind of a spat. In that space rather than a compliment, because compliments are kind of boring, but you look at two people going at it or some. you know, uh, other depiction of that, a video of some confrontation in a restaurant or something.
Why is it that we lean into that as human beings, that we don't have a higher sense of value or manners as Wilberforce would have said a couple hundred years ago.
Well I think we recognize that people are drawn toward the negative. They're drawn toward the accident. They're drawn toward that kind of thing. What does that say about us?
Well, it doesn't complement us very significantly, I think. And that's the challenge, though, for those of us who are Christ followers. Jesus was very clear that we will give an account for every careless word. That's what he said: careless word.
So, as a Christ follower, I have to come to a point where I say, you know, regardless of what the world does. The Lord that I love and the Lord that died for me, what is He calling me to be as a communicator? And I have been sobered by his word years ago when I read that. I said, Lord, that's pretty heavy that I'm going to give an account for every careless word at the judgment.
So I think that's been in the back of my mind through the years. And I wrote this book in part because I wanted to be an effective communicator. And I certainly didn't want to say things that were careless, though your episode that you had at the, we all, we can identify totally with that because people are annoying out there. They fail us. And we need to give them a piece of our mind.
But one person said, you know, don't give them a piece of your mind because you can ill afford to lose what you have.
Well, I think I would have been far better off if I hadn't left the parking lot yet. It was the drive to the grocery store to get stuff for Gene. Then I opened the bag. Yes, yes. I can't.
Now I got to drive all the way back there.
So I was in that groove, you know, you have really put me out of my safe spot. Let me ask you: you identify in the book, Speak Your Mind, three types of communicators. What are they? Right.
Well, it's that person who is really fearful of speaking. You know, they are the ones sometimes that should be speaking up, but for whatever reason, they don't. They don't have the confidence to do that.
So, that person I'm helping, in fact, There are four concepts we're going to talk about, but there are 20. Sub points under each of those, and I've created this assessment tool. It's a strength finder.
So there's an 80 question thing that you do to find out where you're strong.
Now we're all. Inadequate. We feel badly about ourselves to begin with, so we don't want to. Especially the A students out there.
Well, the A students are going to love it, but I think most of us are going to look at that and say it's probably going to point out what I'm doing poorly. But what I want us to look at, first of all, God's gifted us, and many of us have great abilities, and I'm going to. Hopefully, try to highlight that and that they can assess that, but then look at those areas that they might want to shore up on. But that person out there who feels inadequate, hopefully this tool. will help them kind of take an inch forward a little bit.
Then there's the other person that just speaks their mind. You know, this woman said to me once, you know that little thing in the back of your brain that tells you not to say something before you say it? I said, yeah. She said, I don't have that little thing. You always like it when the conversation starts like that.
Uh oh.
So that person who is just blunt and has that attitude, they just they can't handle the truth. You know, that whole idea, you can't face it. And they put the onus on the person who is shutting down on them as though they're not teachable when it's really my delivery that's the problem. You know, we talk about in marriage, I can be right but wrong at the top of my voice. Yeah.
You know, in that category, I remember a good friend of mine once said to me, Don't go out of your and we were talking about another situation, but he said, None of us as Christians should go out of our way to be hated. Let the gospel be the offense, not our personality. That's a great statement. Isn't that a great statement? It really is.
It really jarred me a bit. And what a great thing to make yourself small and the gospel big. Yes.
So when people that oppose the gospel, they're opposing the gospel, not your personality. Yes.
And I think there's scriptural support for that, actually, right? Hugely so. Yeah. So, okay, so that's the blunt person. Everybody think of that.
Okay, you got it.
Okay. The fearful person, the blunt person. And then you've got people that I think are aspiring to be like Jim and John. that they they want to be communicators. And I think one of the points that I'm making is it takes preparation.
There takes a little work, and if you're going to be this average communicator that wants to go the next step, then it's going to require some thought. And I think both of you would be experts. It'd be fun to interview you today to say what would be the number one thing you learned as a communicator over the years, and you had to learn it. It wasn't something that necessarily came natural to you. And I think people out there need to be encouraged that it doesn't just always come natural.
There's some people that are sanguine, they're talkers, and so on and so on, but they have their own set of issues, right? On the other side of that, because they talk too much. Let me ask you: you mentioned the four questions. Let's get into those. Just list them and then we'll talk about them.
The four questions are: is that which I'm about to say true? Kind. Necessary And clear. Mm.
Okay, so when it comes to true, like back to your point. Hey, we could speak truth all day long. If it's not loving, as we say, speak the truth and love, and there you see the first two points. I use kindness, which is the idea of communicating lovingly and respectfully. A truth will carry its own weight.
It doesn't need my hostility. Right, back to the point. Yeah, and so there is this commitment, you know, and the courts will say, tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God. And I remember thinking that was a redundancy until I began to really think about what they were saying. Because you can say what's true, but it's not the whole truth.
Yeah. That's called prevarication. Yeah. You spin the truth. Yes, yes.
But what you're saying is true. It's just not the whole truth. And so the point is that we've got to come to a point where, and it's really the foundational issue. is that which I'm about to say true? Is it true?
And then the question is, okay, now that it's true, am I going to be this blunt person that just, you know, Dumps on that individual, or am I going to say, is that going to come across to them in a kind way? Are they going to, I mean, people here. Hear kindness sometimes more than they hear our words. Yeah. You know, I think the prevarication aspect is really important for the church.
And I think, you know, for the Christian community, we lean into the rules. We kind of want to know what's the scoreboard. How do we know if we're improving as believers and doing the right thing?
So, some people might call that legalism. We don't want to be there, but I think we lean that direction because we're trying to live our lives in such a way. And you got to score that somehow, right? Am I doing a good job today? Lord, help me where I'm not doing a good job today.
Self-examination. Right, which is really important. But that prevarication thing, that gets down to it where, you know, even with scandals and other things like that that you hear about, they're saying part of the truth. And you wonder, Jesus is talking about the heart. of that truth.
And he wants that whole truth to be. To be known in those circumstances. Let's move to kindness. That's a great communication tool. How do you define kindness and give us an example of how to use it in communication?
Right.
Well, I think we've kind of referenced a little bit of that, but I define that as: there's a larger question that I sometimes ask: is that which I'm about to say going to build trust or undermine trust? And is this going to come across in a loving way to this person, a respectful way? They may be unlovable, they may not be respectable, but am I going to have a demeanor? That when I communicate something, you know, I'm not coming across in a way that they feel is hostile and contemptuous. And that that's just a discipline.
And I think both of you have learned that. There are situations where you're confronted and things are said, but you've got to maintain that demeanor, right? Because you understand if you lose it, what happens? Right.
Yeah, this is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guest today is Dr. Emerson Egrich, and we're so glad to have him as we talk about and discuss some of the concepts in his book, Speak Your Mind: Evaluating and Unleashing Your Communication Strengths. A lot of great application here, and you can get the book at focusonthefamily.com/slash broadcast. Emerson, in Colossians, Paul writes, Let your speech always be gracious. This is one of those moments that you can see it in Scripture.
What did you take from that in terms of that kind communication? I mean, that's a direction that Paul is giving all of us. Oh, it's huge. In fact, you know, that was one of those verses early on: let your speech be, you know, with salt. There needs to be a flavor.
There needs to be an inviting, and it's winsome. You're going to win people through your demeanor. And some people have not stopped long enough to think about how important that is. And it takes self-control because they're people who provoke us, they annoy us, they irritate us, they step on our arrows, as I say, and we deflate in response. But this is the challenge.
These situations don't cause me to be the way I am. They reveal the way I am. And when I come to a point where I realize my response is my responsibility, and other people are not causing me to be the way I am, but they're revealing who I am, then I begin to own up to that. But that's also very liberating because then I know that people aren't controlling me. Ultimately, I can't control the outcomes in other people, but I can control my actions and reactions to other people.
And that is freeing. At first, it feels very, well, legalistic, refining, unfair, you know, but at the end of the day, that's the kind of attitude that I need to have, and it is tremendously freeing. You can't get me to hate you. Yeah, no, that's really good. You know, and I think of relationships somewhat in concentric circles.
You know, you got your spouse, your kids. And then you have your friends and then you have acquaintances and work. associates, that kind of thing. I obviously the spousal relationship is the closest. And I've just heard from so many people when there's flare-up, oftentimes there's something else under the hood.
So do you do you think of it in that way as well when you're having communication, even with a friend or family member? If you've touched a button with them, sometimes there's something deeper that ignites that. Oh, absolutely. You know, they feel disrespected. They feel.
And you didn't intend that at all, but because you said the chicken might be a little chilly. I might need to warm that up. Oh, my gosh.
Okay, now you're telling me I'm a terrible cook. That's not at all. I'm just saying, hey, I need to warm this up. I call it decoding. How do we decode on both sides?
How do we let them know our intent, that we have goodwill, but how do we decode them? You said earlier about the person who says, you always, you never, and we see that in marriage, particularly wives toward their husbands. And we have to realize that it, you know, now we're off and running on the fact that I don't always. And now the issue, whatever it is, is secondary to the fact that now we're debating with her the fact that I don't always do that. But if we, as a husband, step back and say, okay, there's something that she's feeling, and she's trying to get a message through to me how she feels in this moment.
And there's something that she wants me to understand, and she's using words to get my attention. And if I don't read correctly underneath, if I don't decode correctly, now we're off on another issue. And we're going to soon now have to solve two problems. Emerson, you talk about thinking through is it necessary to say this?
Okay, this is probably the most important. Because so much you could filter out there and say, yeah, it's not worth it. It's not necessary. Correcting that person. Isn't what I need to do right now.
Or it's the opposite of that. This is something I should do. I guess that's rooted in wisdom and discernment, right? Uh very much so. And in fact, you some of these verses that we all kind of know speak the truth and love.
That's the first two points that are referenced earlier. But we know from Ecclesiastes there's a time to speak and a time To remain silent. That's right. And so there's a call in Scripture for us to use that kind of discernment and wisdom that you're talking about. And is it necessary for me to say this at all?
Is it necessary for me to say it at this time? Should I wait 24 hours? Is this person exhausted and they're not in a mood to be able to receive this at this point?
So, I mean, those are the kinds of questions that we should ask. But I sometimes think, again, if we are in a heated, angry state, we're probably going to say things that are unnecessary. You know, it's kind of like, and one more thing, you know, that kind of attitude in marriage.
So the challenge again is for us to ask ourselves, is it true? Is it kind?
Now is it necessary? And this is where we can have the confidence that the Lord's gonna guide us in this. And we're never gonna get it right perfectly. And we could think that we got it wrong because it was a necessary moment, but that person's not teachable. You know, so we speak the truth in love because we deeply care about them.
It was a timely moment, and they just shut down on us. And then we think, I must have done it wrong. Not necessarily. How did your mom uh demonstrate this to you in communication. I mean, you put the story in the book.
Right, right. No, huge. I mean, I came out of a non-Christian family. My dad attempted to strangle my mother when I was two and a half. I witnessed that.
They divorced before that when I was one, but then they remarried each other and then they separated right after that episode for five years. And then we moved back in the home, but my dad had rage issues. Then my mom was burdened for me, so she sent me to a military school from age 13 to 18.
So I left the home because she knew a collision with my dad was probably inevitable. But then my freshman, I came to Christ at age 16 at a Billy Graham film called For Pete's Sake. And I didn't know anything about the things of Christ. I knew that Billy went to Wheaton. I was on my way to West Point.
That was my goal. And I found out that he went to Wheaton.
So I applied and I was accepted. But my freshman year, my mom comes to Christ. My sister, who's older than me, comes to Christ. My brother-in-law, who's a professor, comes to Christ. And my dad came to Christ.
But I talk about that. I spoke at Liberty University to the student body there about being the wounded healer. And so those wounds are in me. But I reflect on my mom to your question. You know, she never threw my dad under the bus.
That's amazing. It really was amazing. I mean, she wasn't stupid. Mom had three businesses. That's why she sent me to military school.
Extremely capable woman. But she would say, Your dad didn't have a daddy. His dad died when he was three months old during the flu epidemic in 1918, and he doesn't know how to be a daddy. She wouldn't justify his behavior, but she didn't pounce on him. And I saw in her a demeanor.
She lived above that, but she navigated that wisely. She didn't stay in harm's way. That was never the issue. But that her words and her demeanor. Were an example of me, and I wasn't aware of the impact of that, but you look back.
As an adult, and you see, wow, that's an incredible thing. You know, spouses are so negative toward their spouse in front of the children, and that would be an imprudent thing to do. You know, Emerson, you're raising something that I think would be good to address, and that is people that come from a really broken background. You can use that as an excuse to stay there. You know, be bitter.
That's right. You know, well, you don't know what happened to me. That's not what Christ calls us to.
Well, in academic literature, it's called the social learning theory. versus the compensatory theory.
Social learning theory says you'll imitate your parents and you'll be like them. The compensatory theory says you can compensate, you can do it differently. And all of us come to that crossroads where we either excuse our own behavior, which is kind of hypocritical because I end up saying I'm wounded because of my parents, and then I end up treating my children in the same way. Turning toward clarity, Emerson, you talk about the need for us to make sure that we're covering things well and effectively. And that can be really hard sometimes.
So, what are some general guidelines as we go through daily life? Because that's where for me a lot of the grind happens: ooh, here's an opportunity.
Well, and I think that fourth one is the one that I added because I realized, you know, I remember saying, you know, I said years ago, I used to say, I know what I mean, I just can't say it. And this professor said, if you can't say it, you don't know what you mean. Wow. Hmm. As pure as that.
And then as I meditated on Scripture, I thought, where did Paul ask for prayer? himself. Very limited times, but he He definitely asks, pray that I could make it as clear as possible. As I ought. Even the great Apostle Paul was very Desirous of speaking in a way that was clear and speaking in a way that people could understand.
And so to me, this was one of the biggies. And that's why writing down my thoughts, what am I feeling right now? Why am I feeling this? And how am I going to deal with this? And that's been an exercise because I don't want to put my foot in my mouth and end up discrediting myself.
And we all have a proclivity to make those mistakes anyway.
So clarity was a huge issue to me. What do I mean this is the truth? How do I do this? It's kind. What does it mean to say this at a moment where it's necessary and not say more than I need to?
And this is where it is a discipline. And if a person says, well, I just don't want to go through that, then you're going to make a mess of things verbally. Hmm. Let me ask you a story that was really funny in the book about your dog. Chasing your dog through the neighborhood, and then you fill in the blanks.
Yeah, well, it was a great illustration of the importance of clarity and making sure your audience understands. I had a Dalmatian. And as a young kid, if you got a Dalmatian, Wouldn't you logically name your dog Fire?
Okay. I mean, it's a derivation. Staple firehouses. That's exactly right.
So I named the dog Fire, and he got out one day in the neighborhood. And I'm going up and down the street yelling. Fire! Fire! and I remember misses Lentz coming out in the front door, and she said, Where?
and I said, I don't know. And she's pausing. Where's the fire? I don't know where there's this exchange going on, and I'm just as innocent as can be, and she is totally. totally perplexed.
And so upset that she calls my parents later and said, He's going through the neighborhood calling fire, and we think some home's on fire.
So she said, You gotta and then I eventually said to her, My dog's name is Fire.
So then she had that information.
So she told my parents, You gotta rename the dog.
So I renamed it Flyer. Flyer. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Well, that was good. Because the dog didn't understand. Yeah. But you had to be close enough. That's pretty funny.
I could see you running down the street. But it's a great illustration, isn't it? Yes.
That we say things that other people don't know the meaning of. And it's really an unusual story. But is that which I'm about to say going to be understood? That's why oftentimes I'll speak for a little bit and then I'll say to the person, Does that make sense? Yeah.
And what makes sense, what might not make sense, because I want to say this better. And I don't, and if they don't get it, I don't say, well, you weren't listening. I don't come back at them. I say, well, let me run at that again. And some of us have this tendency, if we do even ask that question and they don't get it right, then we accuse them of not listening well.
And I just say, back to your point that you were saying earlier, we've got to that point just listen, just keep listening. And if they're not getting it, keep running at it. And it's been said that the great geniuses who are great in their expertise, they know how to explain it in such a way that their grandmother understands. No hit on grandmothers. No, but I, yeah, exactly.
But I mean, or a child. She's a pretty smart grandmother down there. I'd be careful. That's right. I mean it that way.
I know. Let me ask you right at the end here: probably the question: what should we do when we realize our communication has fallen short, especially as Christians? One, you have to be aware.
So that's got to be the first step that you're thinking about what you're saying. Yes.
Even if it's getting out of the gate. And you're going, uh-oh, why did I say that? That's right. But speak through that process of what we should do if we're.
Well, it can really be powerfully redemptive, even though we've misspoken. You know? And Peter, not knowing what to say, said, I love that verse, Peter not knowing what to say said. And so, you know, he was, we all misspeak. And so, really, the recovery can even be more redemptive in that, you know what, I overstated that.
You know, please forgive me of that. You know, can I run at this again? I need to say this more kindly. You know, I talk with Sarah and me sometimes we'll get into heated fellowship, and I'll say, wait a timeout. Let me.
Go out of the room and come in again. And let's come at this again. And so I think the beautiful thing, we mustn't beat up on ourselves to such an extent. We just need to go and seek forgiveness. And if they come at us, just own up to your part.
You know, one of the things that convicts me was Sarah: if we get an exchange, I know that I'm more guilty than her, but she only confesses her part of it. I hate that. It's a wise woman. Exactly. Listen, this has been so good, Emerson.
And once again, you've hit it out of the park. Speak your mind. Great guidelines for us, especially in this digital age, to be smart, not just with our tongue, but with our fingertips, right? As we're. Hacking away on the phone and doing things that maybe we shouldn't be doing, saying things we shouldn't say.
So, thank you for this, and it's great to have you back here. Oh, thank you. And our prayer is that every high school student and college student gets this. Yeah, there's a good starting point. Maybe every teenager.
Yeah, right. Because the point you're making, there's social. But this is one of those great coaching things. I think a lot of adults might need it actually.
So, let me turn to our listeners. Focus on the family is here for you. We want to equip you with the tools and answers you need to have solid, healthy relationships. And we have lots of resources to help you do that. Yep, and we have a great online test, the reactive cycle assessment, which you can take.
It's going to help you learn what's causing conflict with you and others, especially that most important relationship, your spouse. And you're also going to learn how to navigate those difficulties and find a way toward a stronger relationship. That free assessment. Is on our website. We also have Emerson's great book, Speak Your Mind: Evaluating and Unleashing Your Communication Strengths, which you can get directly from us.
While it would definitely benefit a marriage, it's aimed more broadly. It'll help you as a parent and as a human in general. And we'd like to send that to you for a donation of any amount today. No amount is too small. When you contribute to the work we do here at Focus on the Family, you're helping couples like Jason and Olivia, who wrote in to tell us this.
We want to thank you for your radio show. We listen to Focus every day online, and we're newly married and plan to start a family soon. That's awesome. We are both new believers in Christ. We are encouraged to know we can turn to your ministry and the resources you provide when we face challenges.
Thanks again, and God bless you. Such encouraging words, and you can continue to provide that much-needed help to couples like Jason and Olivia when you do ministry through Focus. Focus on the family.
So please donate today. Contribute and get your copy of Speak Your Mind when you call 800, the letter A and the word family. 800-232-6459. Or donate online at focusonthefamily.com/slash broadcast.
Well, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. God is at work, and He's calling His people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from Focus on the Family and the Coulson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs Truth.
Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can become an agent of restoration and hope. Visit TruthRising.com today. That's TruthRising.com. Yeah.
