And so, if you're in a season of winter, don't lose heart and think about, oh my goodness, how are we going to navigate back through fall and through summer? And is it even possible to get through spring? Winter is the season of doing the work, so that spring can come again. That's Deborah Folada describing ways you can navigate the inevitable ups and downs of marriage and relationships. Welcome back to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
I'm John Fuller. You know, John, last time we covered the different seasons of relationship. Actually, we covered two. We're going to cover the other two today, but spring and summer. And it was such a wonderful insight into how to frame our relationships, whether it's marital or parenting or friend group or those.
Acquaintances at church, you might know. It's just a really good way to see how God has created us. You know, it says in the Word that God created us for relationship. It's probably one of the most unnoticed things that we need to concentrate on. I think we concentrate on salvation in Christ and how to live a spirit-led life.
Those are Tremendous and important, critically important, but he also built this for relationship. What about that? Scripture says, "Think more highly of others than yourself." The Golden Rule. Wow, are we applying things there? I think I think we need to.
And Deborah does a wonderful job at helping us better understand it. And she shared from her newest book called "Relationship Skills: The Four Seasons That Will Make or Break Your Love Life." We have copies of that here at the ministry. Stop by our website to learn more. And of course, if you missed the previous show, don't fret. We have audio copies here.
You can contact. us download our app and have the programs on the go, and we're also on YouTube. Deborah, welcome back! It's so good to have you. Always good to be with you.
You know, it's so fun, and I mean this for the listeners and the viewers. You just bring power-packed information for us. We can all learn so much from what you've written, and you know what the Lord has shown you.
So, thank you for that. Thank you. It's diligence. I mean, you have to put time into it. Writing a book is not.
Easy for those that haven't done it. I mean, it is time-consuming, and you want to be thoughtful.
So, thank you for that effort.
Well, it is a privilege. Yeah, it is really good. We left off, like I said, we covered spring and that infatuation stage, and then the hot heat of summer. And you mentioned at the end of the program last time just how you're exposing yourself more in every way in that summer heat. You know, emotionally, physically, etc.
Especially in the context of marriage, obviously. Let's move into fall. Let's get those out of the way, and then we'll come back and cover some more ground. But what is fall about? I always say that in fall, you start seeing things in HD.
Okay. All of a sudden, the rose-colored glasses are gone, and now I'm seeing everything in high definition. Can I give an example, just help? Because in my own life, you know, I I love. I joke pretty constantly.
Yeah. And I think. My fall awareness was Jean going, yeah, you're not as funny right now. She used to love your jokes. She used to laugh at everything I said.
But that's an example where anything. Too much of anything is fall. Yeah, and we're seeing things through a different filter now. We're seeing things in the details, in the fine details, and sometimes actually we can see too much to the point where everything our partner does, and even the things that used to draw us to them, are now irritating and annoying. And now we're struggling with some of those differences.
A big thing that I talk about through the season. Of fall is compatibility, and all of a sudden, all of your differences are clear. Maybe in spring and in summer, you were focused more on your similarities, and now your differences feel really intense and extreme, and you can have a hard time navigating the season of fall. This is why a lot of people say, "Well, maybe I married the wrong person." Yeah. In that season of fall, when all those struggles start to come up to the surface, right?
It moves into Intolerability, right? Which is very interesting. I think that's where the enemy and our own flesh begins to plant those seeds of doubt, like you said. And I think as we've counseled people here, focus on the family. The fall season is when you start thinking maybe I need a divorce, right?
A lot of people do struggle, and there's different parts of compatibility and different areas where we can find ourselves butting heads. You know, whether it's personality differences, lifestyle differences. Culture differences, education differences—we can list so many different areas that can become sticking points. But one way that I like to think of compatibility is not how much do we have in common. Compatibility is more our ability.
To come together in our differences, yeah, it's an ability. Compatibility is actually a skill. It's an ability to be able to learn from you and to be able to come together in the areas that we are different. Whether it's our financial perspective, whether it's our personality, and learning to see the other person as an asset, as a blessing, and a resource rather than a burden. Yeah.
So you wrote the book. I'll ask you for an example of how you and John have managed incompatibility. Yeah, honestly, this is a really clear example in our marriage because even on this conversation of chill to extreme and intensity, he's more chill. I'm more intense. Like, let's change.
Let's do this. Let's grow. Let's, you know, and learning that neither of those sides. Are in and of themselves good for a marriage. It's like the gas and the brakes.
You can't just go go go go go without pulling back and stopping. But you can't just always be on break. And expect your relationship is going to move forward, and so finding that balance looks like us learning to see the other person's personality traits as an asset, as a blessing, and also over the years we've been married for almost twenty years, and I think one of the most, the greatest lessons, has been learning. To learn from one another, me learning to become more chill and laid back, him learning to become more intentional in our relationship. Learning from each other has really been one of the greatest gifts.
You know, Jean and I have talked about that. We both feel like we have melded into better, different people, and we've gleaned some of the better attributes from each other. Exactly, which is a good thing. It is a very good thing, and to me, that is the goal. Of the season of fall, it's our ability to come together to create compatibility, even in our uniqueness and even in our differences.
But I would say some of that comes with that grind. You know, you've got to have some adversity to better understand fall. I think, in fact, you said navigating conflict during the fall season is critically important. You named seven areas to be mindful of. I'll list them, but prepare for it.
Don't fear. Conflict. Know your style. Understand before being understood. That's a good one.
Empathize. Set boundaries. And then number seven: get to the roots.
So why don't you? You don't have to hit them all, but touch on things that are important to you as the writer. Yeah. So here's a really good framework when you're navigating conflict. Start with what the person is feeling.
And if you're the one that's sharing, I'm feeling hurt by X. This happened, and it really hurt my feelings. If you're the person that's listening. Take that in, and then try to repeat it to them in a way that shows them that you really listened. What I'm hearing you say is you feel hurt because I didn't call you when I said I would, and you're not feeling like a priority to me, Deborah.
For the couples that are tipping into this conversation, that are in some trouble, some level of trouble, this quote that you mentioned in the book from Doctor Les Parrott, who's been on the broadcast many times, less and lessly, but you quoted him as saying. Conflict is the price we pay for a deeper level of intimacy. That's such a great promise for the turbulence you're in. Yeah, but is it true? It is true.
It is a price. We can't pretend that conflict doesn't come at a cost. It's uncomfortable. We don't want to navigate through it. It's hard.
It takes a lot of energy out of us. But it is an invitation. It is a pathway to deeper intimacy. When you think about the. Relationships that you have that have never had conflict—they're usually pretty surface-level relationships, you know.
But the ones where we're getting deeper in relationships, the ones that are becoming more significant, we have to navigate through conflict. In that context, for that couple, that promise that we're talking about, how do they see the trees through the forest, though? Because the emotions of the moment is in the fall. I married the wrong person. This is not going anywhere.
I'm so frustrated. He does not meet those needs for me. I mean, whatever you can fill it in. How do they stop and go?
Okay, this is adversity. I heard Deborah talk about it. This is going to be good. It's just so. Opposite it is.
So how do you slow down enough to look at it as a positive? And now, what do I have to do to get there with my spouse, with my teenager? Let's just throw that one in, or whomever in my life that I'm having this conflict with. How do you set your mind up? To be victorious.
Yeah, always begin with the end in mind. You know, even when you're working out and you get to a point where it's painful and difficult and uncomfortable, it's like, well, what's the end goal here? The end goal is deeper relationships, becoming better. And I think a theme that I tell myself over and over again, as I'm in the midst of conflict, is, what is God revealing? That He wants to heal in me.
What is God revealing that He wants to heal in me? And when I take that as the ultimate goal, I can receive conflict. I can engage with it, and I can see it as a pathway towards something better. I want to highlight though what you said, so we don't miss it in me, not in you. Right.
I know what God needs to heal in you. That is not a good place to be, right? Right. Why is that a major road? Roadblock to healing as a couple.
Well, first and foremost, it's because you cannot change the other person. You cannot heal them, but you can influence them when you begin to heal. Because relationships are like a recipe, and when you change your ingredients. It changes the entire recipe. The transparency factor is so critical.
And again, I mean, right from the garden, Adam and Eve, we did this. It's in our nature to hide. Yes, we cover up. We blame each other. Why did you do this?
Well, the woman you gave me, right? Right. And so, how do we avoid the blame game and become more transparent and honest? The thing I love about the season of fall. Is that there's nowhere left to hide?
The leaves have fallen off the trees now, and it's like ah, there's nowhere left to hide. Then you get a point to a point in your relationship where you have to choose to be fully known. That there are no secrets. That everything is now on the table with my spouse, and that leads to deeper levels of intimacy. You've heard the phrase being fully known, so that you can be fully loved, and I think this really matters when it comes to the context of our relationships.
And a lot of couples they don't live like this. There's a lot of places in their life that are kept in the dark, that are kept secret, that they feel ashamed to expose. Whether it's things from the past or things in their present. And the goal is creating a safe place so that you can share, so that you can be fully known, and connect with your partner in the way that God intended. That was God's intention from the beginning.
In the garden, is for us to be fully known, and and I truly believe we can replicate some of that in our marriages. Deborah, we save the worst for last. It's not normally how we say that, but winter. This is where couples are feeling distant and cold toward each other. What are clear signs that we're in winter?
Yeah, winter can come with a really intense feeling that things have frozen over, that there's a lack of love and connection. But they can also come with a more dangerous feeling of apathy and apathy. Apathy is more dangerous because it's like that subtle frost. It's not very obvious, but it's still deadly. It's still destroying the relationship.
Exactly, there was a frost just last week in Pennsylvania, and I had planted a bunch of flowers because it was eighty degrees the week before, and that frost. Quietly overnight, destroyed all of those plants, and it's the same in our relationships.
Some people are like, "Well, there's nothing majorly wrong here. We've been married for forty years. Everything's fine." But is that what God wants for your relationship? Does God want apathy, or does He want connection? And so, I think frost sometimes is even more dangerous because it makes us think that everything's okay when really we're far from the point where God wants us to be and how we love each other.
Yeah, it's interesting. Even in a winter storm, you know, here in Colorado, we can get three feet of snow, and everybody hunkers down. My sister used to manage a grocery store out here. She said, "It's so weird. The day before, when we get that kind of weather forecast, oh yeah, everybody comes in for guests.
They're preparing." Toilet paper and milk. Yeah, she said it just flies off the shelf, and it is kind of interesting when bad weather hits, like severe weather. We tend to pull together a crisis, whatever it might be, something in our marriage. That light frost is what kills us. I agree, and so something for us to be on the lookout for.
And I also think you just used a really good word: prepare. We all need to be prepared that a winter season will come. In our marriage, and not only will it come, it should come, because winter has positive benefits too. Winter is the season of turning inward, of asking myself where I need to heal and grow and change. God made winter to disinfect the ground.
Without winter, we wouldn't be able to have the fruitful gardens and farming that we have in spring. And so, winter is really significant. Because it has a purpose, and so if you're in the season of winter right now, I think the question is, what is the Lord wanting to disinfect, to heal in this relationship? I think winter is a season that every couple will pass through, but the invitation is not to stay in winter. It's a season to be passed through, knowing that if you do the right things, plant the right seeds, prepare the ground.
Spring can and should come again, and that's the hope that we have: is that even in winter, we know it's not the final season. Seasons are meant to cycle through. I get so excited with spring, especially here in Colorado. Yes, you know, because we we come through usually tough winters. Not all of them are tough, but normally they are.
And I'm tired of it being you know ten below or zero, and then you get the first warm day. And you're going, wow!
Okay, it's coming. It's around the corner. And what if you appreciate spring even more because you've gone through winter? You know, it's like in in your marriage when things start to turn in the right direction, when you start to treat each other better, when you start to heal. It's like, wow!
God is doing something, something here. And spring can be even better than it was in the early cycles of our relationship. You know, with our hope restored. I think thematically, we see many, many couples who are just passing through the end of fall or deep in winter. It's just the nature of it.
Something is motivating them, and I'm so thankful to those folks who have said, "Yes, we're going to try." Now, oftentimes we hear, "This is our last attempt to save our marriage." That's really common. Yeah. Or they have divorce papers already in hand or signed. I mean, it's amazing, and that program has an eighty-one percent saverate based on going back to each couple two years later. It's phenomenal.
It is. But as a counselor yourself, especially looking at the Christian community, we have the ability to get through winter. Yes. But some are not making it. They're the Donner Party, you know.
They're going through Lake Tahoe in twelve foot snow as pioneers, and they get caught. How do we, as Christians, particularly, read the weather pattern of our marriage, and know what to do instead of walking into the storm that will kill us, kill our relationship? I think the first thing is we need to reframe. How we view winter, because for some people they think it's the end of the journey. It's like I have to go back through fall, and then I have to go back through summer, and then I have to get to spring again.
That feels impossible, but that isn't the journey. The journey is to get through winter in order to reach spring again. And what these couples need to realize is some of the strongest relationships that I have seen have just come out of winter because they've learned. Learn to do things better. They've seen their mistakes.
They've healed their wounds. They've went back to their childhood traumas and done the work that had never been done before, and their spring feels better than ever. And so, if you're in a season of winter, don't lose heart and think about, oh my goodness, how are we going to navigate back through fall and through summer? And is it even possible to get through spring? Winter is the season of doing the work.
So. That spring can come again. I see it every day, and so do the retreats that you are doing. And really, what it comes down to is a commitment to healing what I need to heal, because my healing and my health overflows into the life of my relationship. When I think about this, I think of Jesus in Matthew chapter seven.
Where he says, "First, remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." And to me, that there is permission to remove the speck from my brother's eye.
Sometimes I need to confront you and ask you to change and give you what I'm experiencing and tell you my needs, but not before I do the work in myself, because then, then I will see clearly to be able to bring you. What I need to change and adjust and fix, and so to me, that's the formula for moving out of winter and into spring. And you know, in that overstatement that I would make there, what the Lord is saying is humility. Yeah, you know, remove the plank from your own eye before you go after the smaller thing in your brother's eye, because you're no different than the other guy, buddy, right? Or your wife, right?
And you all fall short. And when there's a plank in your eye, you can't see clearly, right? When you're unhealed, when you've got wounds, it's really hard to see clearly what the other person needs to change and adjust and heal. Yeah, it's so beautiful in that way, but it does take humility. I remember one time Jean said to me, a few years.
Years ago, but she said, "I love you. I don't like you right now." And I was like, "How could you not like me, the extrovert?" And it was that that intimacy thing. I think when I get down to it, it was too superficial. She wanted something deeper, right? Like I don't know you, and that I had to really think about that.
How do I work on that to be less flippant, deeper emotionally?
So she. Could know me, right?
So those are the ways to process that and to do better. You know, I do want to ask you. We've talked about this in the context of human relationship, marriage, friends, family, raising your teens, etc. Relationship, all those will stress you in different ways. Yeah.
But our relationship with Christ does this apply in that way too? It seems that it does, doesn't it? I think so. You know, as we enter relationship with Jesus, and we're on fire, and everything's exciting in the season of spring. I you see things through a rose-colored lens, and it's growth.
You're in God's Word every day, and then the intimacy and the depth of summer, right? Just that passion. And then you get to fall where conflict and crisis and trauma, and you start to question, and you start to see the incompatibility. Your friend dies of cancer.
Something really hard happens. Right, your marriage is struggling. You walk through an injustice. There's difficult things that make you question if God is who you thought He was. But I also believe, in the same way, that conflict.
Leads to deeper intimacy with God. That wrestling invites us to a deeper intimacy with the Lord, and I have seen that to be true in my own life. And it's a beautiful thing. And sometimes we find ourselves in a winter season where we feel apathy. We're not as excited as we used to be.
Life has gotten hard, and there's so many burdens, and and we've kind of just allowed ourselves to. Slowly drift into that frost season, but the hope is that spring can come again. The hope is that winter is a season to be passed through. We're invited to pass through winter. We're not encouraged to stay.
Yeah, Deborah, I need to ask this for the person who is suffering, and it could be anything, but their relationship with the Lord is in a winter place. They may be shaking their fist at the Lord, saying, "I trusted you, I thought you loved me." Typically, we're experiencing that transactionally. Like, Lord, I've done all the right things. Why would this problem, this situation, fall upon me? I thought you cared about me, and you could keep it from happening.
Speak to the soul of that person because that is the fork in the road for so many. Yeah, that is where they may turn their back on the Lord, right? Or they go deeper with the Lord. What's the difference? What do you see as a counselor that makes the difference in that moment in a person's life?
I think it's our framework, our belief system, our underlying view of God. You know, and even as you're walking through loss and grief and struggle, I always remind myself that nothing. Is lost in the kingdom of God. Nothing is unjust in the kingdom of God. All will be made right.
God has the final say, and in the meantime, His desire is intimacy with us through all of the seasons. If we have intimacy with Him. Through all of the seasons, through all of its hardships, then in the end we have won, and that's where Jesus says, "In this world you will have trouble." It's a promise because this world has fallen, but I have overcome the world. Is also a promise that He will redeem. For I've overcome the world.
Yes, I mean don't just you know gloat or or be down about. Be encouraged. Be encouraged. I've overcome. That I have a solution and it is coming.
And in the meantime, would you lean into intimacy with Him and see what He can do? Deborah, this is so good. Thank you for being with us again. Man, you just always bring such great insights. Thank you for being with us.
It's a privilege to be with both of you. Let me turn to the listeners. Deborah's newest book, "Relationship Skills: The Four Seasons That Will Make or Break Your Love Life," is super terrific. I can't do it anymore. I mean, it's been energetic our discussions.
I love the content. Deborah has spent much time to put this in writing. It's a good tool, and it will help you recognize the season. You're in, and the need to grow to a healthier place. That's the point.
If you can give a gift of any amount, we'll help you and send you the book as our way, saying thank you for being part of the ministry. If you can't afford it, we want to get it into your hands. We're a Christian ministry. We want to provide that help. We'll trust others.
We'll cover the cost of the resource. Please know that Focus is here for you. There's so many helps here at Focus. Hope restored, and the book and resources, marriage department. The assessment on your marriage—it's free.
You could take that; it'll give you great insight on things you need to work on and those things that you're doing pretty well. Let me give you a quick stat: 110,000 couples, Focus was able to help in the last 12 months to help them work their crisis in their marriage. 110,000—that's a privilege. And then we have Hope Restored. Let me read you a quick testimonial from one couple.
They said, "We were at a very hard place. I'd say winter, right, Deborah?" Ready to separate, and I didn't know how to move forward. The marriage intensive literally restored our hope and gave us tools to move forward. That is great. And Deborah, let me just again say thank you for being with us.
Thank for the hard work that you do counseling couples to save their marriages to help them get to a better place. It's an awesome vocation. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. It's always a privilege.
We'll get in touch today to learn about all the resources we have for you, including Deborah's book. Called relationship skills, the four seasons that will make or break your love life. Our phone number is eight hundred, the letter A, and the word family. And we've got all the details in the show notes. And plan now to join us next time as we take a look at K through twelve and secondary education to help your child thrive.
Committed to prayer. I know my son and daughter, and I want to place them in an environment that they're going to be mentored, discipled, seek counsel, and ask a lot of questions. On behalf of the team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ.
