God is at work and He's calling His people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from Focus on the Family and the Coulson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs. truth. Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can become an agent of restoration and hope.
Visit TruthRising.com today. That's TruthRising.com. After the dust settles, you know, and you the romantic fairy tale. is over.
Sometimes when that happens, a lot of couples lose sight of that bigger picture, right? And so it's not just enough to say, I do, but you have to say, I still do. That's Tandra Gregory, and she's here with her husband George on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And I'm John Fuller. You know, John, marriage is such a unique institution.
You know, it's created by God, but it's so funny that He draws opposites typically together. It seems to be His point. People always say, What's the question you want to ask God when you get there? You know, why do people suffer? I think I'm going to say, Why did you have opposites attract?
And I think that it is humorous, but I think the reason is to work off our rough edges. You know, Gene and I, the thing we work on still is how not to trigger each other verbally. You know, we know each other's buttons, and we have made that quiet commitment to hold our tongue so that we don't do that little jab thing to each other. That's maturing in Christ.
So, you're not agitating your wife, which makes no sense to me actually when you think about it. For some reason, I love to do that, but you know, the Lord's kind of going, How'd that work for you? It doesn't work, you know, and Partly because the scripture is calling us to lay our lives down, to sacrifice for each other. And in doing that, you become more like Christ, which I think is the whole goal of marriage. Yeah, yeah, I heard Charles Stanley years ago say, What can we do together?
And I've kind of adopted that for my marriage with Dina, where we have moments like that, Jim. And it is the better part of valor to step back and not continue the triggers. We want healthy, happier marriages here at Focus, and that's what the show is about today. After 30 years of marriage, George and Tandra Gregory are experienced experts, let's say, in helping others build strong relationships. They're the official chaplains for the Los Angeles Chargers and previously served as marriage ministry leaders at Saddleback Church.
Together, they've written a great book that forms the foundation for our conversation today: The Marriage Game Plan: Developing a Winning Strategy for Marital Success. And you can learn more about the Gregories in this excellent book on our website. The link is in the show notes. Welcome to both of you. Glad to have you and focus on the family.
Thank you for having us. Excited to be here.
Now, I'm going to look the other way about the Chargers thing because I'm a Broncos fan. Sure. But, you know, I'll bite my lip here. No, I love football, and it's just so much fun to watch these guys hone that skill and be there. But what's interesting in any sporting environment with professional athletes, I think the divorce rate is quite high.
Have you seen that? I mean, in terms of their ability to do everything, to be at the top of their game, to manage a home and be engaged. What have you observed in the sports arena? Yeah, you know, there is a high divorce rate. I mean, we know a lot of successful couples, and we know a lot of great, godly successful couples in the NFL.
But, you know, when you're in the spotlight, Whether you do good or bad, you know, that puts a lot of pressure on spouses. And to live before the spotlight, sometimes it creates certain problems. Maybe it's conflicts, maybe it's not being on the same page, or maybe it's just when your mess-ups are exposed to the world, you know, that puts an enormous amount of pressure. But we like to tell people, or at least show people, how to get a game plan. That's why we like to work with professional athletes because they know the language of a game plan.
And so it's really simple, you know, to talk to athletes, I think. And interestingly enough, I mean, that discipline that gets them into that high level of competition. Boy, to turn that on in your marriage and in your family, A, it's a big challenge, but B, if you can do that, you're in a great success spot. Sure. We had one of our athletes who asked, he said, would you marry me?
It was like two weeks before his wedding. And I said, I can't. And he said, Why can't you? And I said, because I have to take it through premarital counseling. And so he asked the question: What's the least amount of premarriage counseling that I could do before you would marry?
And to your point, I said, How did you get to be an elite athlete in the NFL? And he. Took a step back and because they like to talk about themselves. He talked about all the coaches and the nutritionists and the dieticians and the positional coach. And I said, Great.
So, why would you want an average marriage when you want an elite career? And he got it. He got it. He said, sign me up. And I'm happy to say today that he completed those premarital classes and they're well on their way to have a successful marriage.
You know, our childhoods play such a role, and we've done many broadcasts and podcasts on that. You know, just our family of origin is really important in shaping our views and attitudes, and probably many of the things you're going to have to work on in your marriage in the future, right? Just those attitudes we bring into it. You know, let me start with you, Tundra. Childhood, what was that like for you?
What were the things that you had as obstacles growing up? Yes.
So I grew up with a single mom, and my dad was not in the picture.
So I never had the opportunity to see how a husband and wife interact because my mom never married. And so one of the obstacles that that brought in is because. Because I was just raised with, you know, not a high level of trust. Like my mom instilled a lot of protect yourself when it comes to men. And because a lot of, you know, she's been let down and hurt by the men that were supposed to protect her and that was supposed to be there for her.
So you can imagine going into our marriage, I'm like, Half, not even in. I'm just standing back waiting to be let down, right? Because one of the beliefs that I grew up with was. It's not if your husband is going to let you down, but it's when he lets you down. You need to be ready.
So I'm I'm like sitting in my marriage like Analyzing it, just waiting for the moment where I say, okay, this is it, this is over.
So instead of actually participating in my marriage, so that background, your family of origin. Really has a huge impact on your present. It doesn't have to. If you can understand where it's coming from and you know what the biblical model for marriage is, then it can, you know, help you understand and move past that and move beyond. And that's why this book was just a.
coming from our heart because We didn't have a game plan. We didn't know how all of these background things and how we grew up and the differences, and how that's still a part of you until you deal with it. Yeah, and I you know it's I guess it's expected when you're coming uh up in that situation, very similar to me actually. My dad was an alcoholic and Divorced my mom when I was five.
So you and I share a lot of that childhood trauma of just not. You know, having security and all those things. And it does create. challenges for you as you date, get married, etc., and try to create commitment. And thankfully, becoming Christians, as we did, we were able to hopefully learn of those good things.
Now, George, your story, your Going to be my kids' story potentially. And I say that, I say that because you grew up in a Christian home. Your dad was a pastor, but you still had your wild time. You know, like college was your wild time. And I'm not wishing that for my boys at all.
I hope they're not. They're in their early 20s now and they're doing well. But it's not. Untypical of kids coming from Christian homes to kind of go a little sideways. Sure.
It's wonderful that you've made it back to a commitment to Christ. I mean, that's great.
So your parents did do that good job, even though you probably caused them some sleepless nights. Just describe that valley for a while and where you were at, and then how you guys met in college. Yeah, man. I was a good actor, I would say. I wasn't trying to pretend it was just who I was.
And I knew all the church songs, I knew all the sayings, and I could give you high-five. But as soon as we went in our private areas, I would let my guard down and I would, you know, in all respects, become human again. And my dad never forced it on me. We had to go to church, meaning if you wanted to go out on a Saturday, you had to go to church on Sunday. But, you know, he let me have a relationship with Christ in my own way.
And so when I got to college, it just kind of exploded. Let me ask you about that because so many Christian families experience this. And it's good to kind of sit here for a moment. Even if we're not intending to, we as Christian parents tend to control our kids' environment. You know, we put the filters on, all good things.
Sure. And we, you know, we address issues that we feel are dangerous to them. We try to make sure they're not out of control.
So we clamp down and they live through that situation. And so many Christian kids, when they go off to Christian school, to secular school, it's cut loose. And it does show a little bit of. the fact that we as parents did not equip them To kind of be responsible for those decisions.
So that distinction. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. My dad used to say you can take a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
Right. You know, he also used to say that God has no grandkids. That means that one day I had to accept Christ as my Lord and Savior. For you. For me.
And I just thought. I've got time. Right? Who doesn't think they have time on their side? Especially at 20.
Absolutely. You'll never die. That's right. You don't even think about it. You're mortal, right?
And yet. Life really, for college, although I could do anything and I could go anywhere, it really led me down a rabbit hole of depression and kind of asking what else is there in life, you know, besides partying and drinking and things of that nature. And so I had a real moment where God came into my life. And, you know, a lot of people say, can we defend our faith? And there's sometimes, you know, although I want to defend my faith, I will say that Jesus came and rocked my world so much, I know that he is real because of how he came into my life.
You know, for parents, and again, this is a marriage program. We're talking about your book, The Marriage Game Plan. But for parents that have that child right now, they're terribly worried. Sure. You know, we thought we did all the right things.
What word of hope do you give them? Because you're a child of hope. You kind of went the prodigal way, but came back. Yeah. Interesting that you say the prodigal because.
I went through a very dark period of.
Well, let me say it like this. I was working at American Express for summer school, 12:30. A.M. to 8:30 a.m. And I would sit between these African-American ladies, and they would quote the Bible, and I would quote it right back.
And they constantly asked me: if you know the Bible so much, why won't you give your life to Christ? They knew what kind of life I was in. What a challenge. And I was also, before I got to work, I would get past a bridge and I would hear the voice of the Lord say, if the sky cracked right now and I came back and the trumpet sounded, don't you know you and all your friends would go to hell because you won't open your mouth. Right, so fast forward, I go to the club, I get extremely drunk, intoxicated.
And my friends pushed me in my boarding room. Jesus was in my room. And I felt that presence of God. Even in a drunken state, I felt the presence of God. And I remember saying the sinner's prayer.
I woke up on my knees the next morning in the same position, but I knew life had changed.
So I called my dad, who was on his way up to see me, and I told him I had something exciting to tell him. As soon as I got in the car with him, I told him I gave Christ my life, and he burst out in tears. And I thought, aren't you supposed to be happy for me? And he says, son, you don't understand. For 365 days, this is the 365th day, I've been praying that you would come to yourself like a prodigal son.
Wow. Mm. Yeah. And that just, it just lets me know that no matter who you are as a parent out there today, you have hope because we have the power of prayer. And we can't control our kids, but we can cover them, we can bathe them in prayer.
So don't give up on your kids. My dad didn't give up on me, and God worked a miracle in my life.
Well, what's so important about that is the foundation of faith in Christ. I mean, we can help save a marriage, help parents do a better job, but if they don't make that commitment, we've missed the whole goal. That's right. Because that will really cement you in your journey in both of those things, your marriage and your parenting. Let's move to the meeting.
You guys went to college together. How did you guys end up saying, I do?
Well, as freshmen, we noticed that we were in all of the same classes. Our first class was biology 101. That's always a good start. We're not going to make any jokes about that. I know.
Yeah, so that. That was interesting, Biology 101. And so George, you know, he's just a very charismatic person.
So he always makes this joke. He was like, Hey, did you go and sign up for all of my classes? You just had to see me every day. You wanted to show up in all of my classes? Of course, we men think that that's happening because they love us so much.
It's not accidental. It was so great. I had to see him all day long. Did you say yes? That's so true.
I was like, No, I did not. I didn't, I have, I did not sign up for these classes. They put me in these classes. You're not all that, you know. That's so funny.
Yeah, yeah. And so, over the course of a few years in college, man, we tried to do the girl and boy typical thing and just couldn't connect, right? And in a worldly sense.
So, so I led Tundra to the Lord, by the way. As soon as I got saved, because we were friends, you know, we developed a friendship. And so, George called me one day. And now, we know the lifestyle we were both living. I didn't grow up in a Christian home, so I didn't even have that to come.
Contend with. But he calls me on the phone and he says, Hey, I got something really important to share with you. Can you meet me when you get off work? And I was like, Well, I knew because we were trying to hook up, but we could never get our timing right.
So I just thought it was one of those. Let's see if we can get our timing right.
So I wasn't going to. Respond because I was going through my own kind of depression. And so when he, um, I wasn't going to go see him, but when I got off work, I heard a voice say, No, you have to go see George.
So I went. He shared the gospel with me, which was right on time because I was looking for direction in life. And It was just a powerful moment. I just remember the scripture because he was like, I gave my life to the Lord and why won't you do the same? And I was like, I will one day when I'm really old, you know, like 40.
After I finished living my life, I settled out at 40 years old, I will. And he took me to a scripture. In Luke and It said What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul? This is the first time I comprehended the scripture. Like it jumped off of the Bible.
He made me read it. That's another thing. He didn't read it for me. He said, read this. And it jumped into my heart.
And it just nagged at me for two weeks. And I finally got on my knees. I read, he gave me a book, too, and I got on my knees and I prayed that prayer at the end of the book. And I got into bed. I was like, oh my, I'm so lost.
God didn't even hear me. I prayed that prayer. Nothing happened because Anyway, when I looked at church people, I was like, oh, they're going to run around and I got to scream, hallelujah, you know. And I didn't do that.
So I thought the Lord didn't hear me. But the next morning, When I woke up, I knew I had been changed and I knew he had heard me. That's evidence of the Holy Spirit in your heart, a changed life, right? That's the core thing.
Okay, steering into marriage. I'm a little anxious about you sharing this story because it cuts close to my own. But you guys, you know, understanding what God has done here, created man in his image, and then you're kind of lonely, man.
So creating a woman to be his companion, helper, etc. You guys had to work that out, and you have a story of. parking your car in the driveway. Oh, yeah. Yes.
This is where the pain begins. I'm shaking already. Go ahead. What's your story on not listening to your helpmate?
Well, you know, I had this bad habit, guys, of just really thinking that I knew it all, that I didn't need the helper that God gave me. And so I pulled up in the driveway, and we were both in the car. It was poor. And it was your car. My car.
Yeah, my car was. Last in, so it was in the driveway, and it was pouring raining too. Yeah, so she said, Why don't you pull all the way into the garage?
So if you have to go back out later, you won't hit my car. And I said, Babe, I got it. I won't do that. And lo and behold, I came out. I think we were arguing.
We were. We were. Which we don't like to say. Intense fellas. Disagreement, I call it.
Intense disagreement.
So we had a toss-up that day. And so I kind of just said, Hey, I need to go out and get some air. And lo and behold, I backed a car up and out of your car out of the garage. My car out of the garage. And I side-swiped my wife's car.
Boy. Yeah. Pride goes before the fall. And the funny thing is. I was in the car with you at that time, and you were like, What is that?
You know, he was like, What is that? I was like, That's my car that I asked you. Did you want me to pull it into the garage? Did you honestly say it that calmly? Yes.
And that's beautifully delivered. I said it in a very sarcastic way, of course. I wish she would have said it that calmly. But just immediately, I knew that I was going to get the I told you so. And so I just went.
As I recall it, now maybe you recall something different. I went real humble and said, My babe, would you forgive me? Oh, no.
Something like that. No. You pull in and you act like it was my fault that I left my car. I did. And that was really an expensive mistake.
So the moral of the story is when your wife reminds you of something, you know, probably take heed to it because if you have to, you know, say sorry, at least you can say you listen. I know it's so true. My car incident was Jean had hit something and she had a banged up bumper. And of course she went through that. You know, you might drive a little more carefully.
Blah, blah, blah. I mean, it's a week later. I'm in our driveway. The focus staff, we hosted a dinner. And so, you know, the staff were up helping us with this dinner, and their van was parked next.
I was, goodbye, see you guys later. I'm pulling out in the driveway.
Okay. Bang. I hit my wife's car. Oh, my God. Same thing.
Big old dent in the bumper. And she came out and said, you know, if you just would drive more carefully. She would. She would. I am with you on this one.
God has a way of humiliating us in a good way.
Well, humbling. Humbling. Humbling. But in that context, no, seriously, that is so much a marriage is knowing you don't have all the answers where you started this. Sure.
That you're the guy. But there is a tenderness that comes with relying on your spouse's input and your spouse relying on yours and finding that way to do it without the I told you so's and all those things. I mean, that's where you live in a good place in your marriage, right? Absolutely. When George and I were first married, I asked him, I said, Because he used to feel like every time I try to help or give you advice or share something with you, it feels like you're opposing me.
It feels like you're not on my side. And I was just like, well, Tell me what do I bring to your life? What do I bring to this marriage? And he said, if you know George, he was like. Let me go think about that and I'll get back with you.
That was comforting. I know, right? But I knew him. That was not the right answer, guys. But I did know him enough that he would go and he would ponder and he would come back.
I did the work. You did the work and he came back and he was able to connect what I brought to his life. And the reason why that question was important is because if you don't know what that person brings to your life, if you don't know how they complete you, if you don't know how they feel in your gaps, you will feel like. They're against you, that they're not on your team, that they are Are not for you, right? And so it turned the tide of our relationship because it began us looking as partnership because he stopped rejecting that and stopped feeling like it was opposition and started leaning into what I had to share because there was a I had a perspective that he didn't have.
God made me different and it just made us more well-rounded together when we influence each other. And what's tough with that is those perspectives. They seem like they have sharp edges. And again, the goal is: how do you get down to where you round off those edges for one another so that the advice is taken, it's heard, it's prayed for. Let's agree on this, that kind of thing.
You, and this will be a good place to end, and I'd like to go another day and talk more about the marriage game plan. But I like this story because I think it captures what you were just saying. You related it to a game that you were attending with the Chargers, I think with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Oh, yeah. And they were significantly down 23-7, which I was probably happy for in the AFC West for the Broncos to go up a notch.
But anyway, that aside, but they're down 23-7, maybe at halftime. I don't remember the story. And this relationship of what I'm what you just said, it's like marriage, like a wife that feels like we're down at halftime. You know, the score is really lopsided. I don't think we're going to win this game.
Meaning their marriage. Yeah. But you saw something there in that game, and the Lord spoke to you about it. What was it? Yeah.
Definitely just, I had given up hope. I was looking at the circumstances, and the circumstances were. Defeat. And I just succumbed to that. This is not, we're not going to win.
This is defeat. But, and then George, you can jump in because I wasn't in the locker room. But when the team came back out on the field after halftime, They came back and they won that game. And it just really showed like the resiliency and how mindset and what you focus on can really determine, you know, how you work and how your effort is, right? Which can instill, as long as you have hope, God gives us hope.
He gives us a resilient mindset to not give up. As long as you have him and he's on your team, you're never defeated. You're never out of the game.
So I don't know if you want to share. I remember Coach Lee and he said, I don't know what we have to do, but we've got to get a different game plan. That's what he said. At halftime. At halftime.
The resiliency came because he said, I refuse to let us go back out and do the same thing. We need a new game plan. What a great spiritual application, though. You know, when you're not applying the Word of God, when you're not reading the Word of God, when you're not praying with your wife, when you're not going to church regularly, I mean, these are things that are going to zap your game plan, right? And you may not even have a game plan, even worse.
And then the results are there. It's 23-7 at halftime. You're going, okay, we're not putting any scores up here. We got to change the game plan. Let's come back next time and talk about how to change that game plan.
This is a great start. You're such a delightful couple. Thank you. Thanks for being so open and honest about your faux pas. And even, you know, even that honesty about where you were at in college and before.
And, you know, so many young people are living there.
So you're connecting. And we have a lot of listeners in the 20-30-something space.
So they know. Your story because they may be right there right now. And for you, our listener, this is why Focus on the Family exists. We want to help your marriage be the best it can be, and we have some great tools for you to get there. Right, including our free marriage assessment.
Over a million people have taken this. It's going to help you discover where your relationship is thriving and where maybe you could put in a little extra effort or apply a little extra care. It was kind of gentle. We've added some brand new content to that marriage assessment.
So stop by and take it. Even if you've taken it before, it's a perfect time to kind of check in and get the refreshed version. Yeah. And we also have George and Tondra's fantastic book, The Marriage Game Plan: Developing a Winning Strategy for Marital Success. You'll find clear, practical strategies to overcome challenges and build a relationship that lasts.
Before we give details on how to get that, I do want to let you know we could really use your help right now. Let me share with you a We received from Tim. He wrote, I just wanted to send a note of thanks to Focus on the Family for saving my marriage. And let me just insert here: you helped us do that. Through your ministry, I was able to save my marriage from divorce.
I listened to broadcasts, purchase books, and continue to research ways to improve our marriage. I now put my wife, Sue, first, after God, of course, and it has made all the difference. I am forever thankful. Man, that says it all. That is our mission.
Tim and Sue are just one of the 530,000 couples who have built stronger marriages with the help of Focus on the Family in the past 12 months. But we can't do it without you. You're in this together. We're locked arm in arm. We're powered by people like you, faithful listeners who believe in what we do to help couples stay together and have thriving marriages.
Won't you partner with us financially today? A gift of any amount can make a huge impact, and we'll send you a copy of the Gregory's Outstanding book as our way of saying thank you for being involved. Step up and contribute as you can, get your copy of the marriage game plan, and take that marriage assessment. All the details are in the episode notes. On behalf of the entire team, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we continue the conversation with George and Tondra Gregory and once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. God is at work, and He's calling His people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from Focus on the Family and the Coulson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs truth. Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can become an agent of restoration and hope.
Visit TruthRising.com today. That's TruthRising.com. Yeah.
