Healing as a Parent from Childhood Trauma (Part 2 of 2)

Are my parents paying attention to I'm hoping as a parent my boys got a lot of positive things, but I don't want to believe that it was all positive I'm sure I gave them some things that they can work on to be better dads than I was and That's the attitude we want to talk about today with Melanie about moms and daughters mostly but dads you're part of this, too and We covered last time a lot of territory if you haven't heard that yet I want to encourage you to go back, go to the website, get the download. You can download the app and all the episodes are right there, but it would really be helpful to listen in context, yesterday's program and today's program. And I'm looking forward to some of the conclusion that Melanie's gonna bring to her life story today. Yeah, and she's captured a lot of this in the book, Here Be Dragons, Treading the Deep Waters of Motherhood, Mean Girls and Generational Trauma. And of course we have copies of that book here for you.

Just check the show notes and you'll find the links right there. Melanie, welcome back to Focus on the Family. Thank you, happy to be back. I really enjoyed our conversation yesterday and like so many of the viewers and the listeners, I was like metal to magnet with your comments yesterday because so much of what you're saying, I experienced as a child as well. And part of it is just that trauma of what did I go through? And as you said last time, it's kind of as a child, you just think this is normal until you find out it's not.

And that's really what you covered, going to college and seeing normal and your husband Perry coming to visit your mom and him observing, okay, this is not normal. And in many ways, there's a hole in your heart because of that, the sadness of what you missed. And that's what we want to do is to help people become healthier. I mean, I know your heart for your mom, even though she's passed away now, but that would be your heart, that she could have come around, that she could have dealt with these things and become a better believer and a better person because of that. And that's our goal, that we can all do that, especially our own lives, looking at the log in our own life.

That's it, that's it. Let's pick up, one of the things you mentioned in the book or certainly you intimate in the book is people that go through trauma tend to have a pretty good sense of humor. And I think the reason is I've thought about this because I think it helps. It's coming from the Lord. I believe humor comes from God. And I just think he knows that it's a coping skill that makes life a little lighter when you can laugh at some things, especially yourself.

That's really healthy. But you had a dog, Piper, I think. Piper, yes, we still have her.

Speak to the humor of this situation, how it applied to the drama you were experiencing with your daughter, with your mom and how you were parenting. Yeah, so we have two dogs. They are still with us, Piper and Mabel. They are blue lacys, which is actually the state dog of Texas. Most people don't know that. Yes, they are. What's the state dog of Colorado?

I don't know. I don't know, listen, I didn't know, but my husband was real proud of that. But they are, to give you an idea, they kind of look like a German Shorthair, but they have a blue coat like a Wamerunner. And they are high energy, active dogs.

We have a ranch that they go and run on and they track, they're great little dogs. Piper, about five years ago, contracted, we started noticing her paw was really inflamed. And we started to notice that it was getting bigger. So we took her to the vet, they ran all kinds of tests and they said somehow she had contracted some sort of fungal infection through an injury to the paw. And then, you know, she swims in water that is probably not the cleanest down at the ranch.

And so the problem kept getting worse. And so we took her to different specialists. We're Aggies, so we took her to Texas A&M, which is the premier vet school to get them to look at it. And ultimately everybody came to the same conclusion, which was the only way that you're going to stop the disease is to amputate the leg. And we really didn't want to do that because it just feels so extreme. And it's a front leg, she's a big dog, she's an active dog.

And so we really thought about, is this the right thing to do? But she was, otherwise they ran all the tests and they said, this is a perfectly healthy dog. And there's no reason to think that she won't be fine on her three legs. So we waited for about a year and it got worse. The medication wasn't helping. And so we finally had to make the decision to amputate that leg. And it felt so drastic and so scary to do that to her. And what I will tell you is three hours post surgery, Piper was up running around and did not even know the difference.

Even the vet said, this is remarkable. But he said, she'd been compensating for that diseased paw for so long that she probably didn't even realize all the ways that it was- She wasn't putting weight on it. It was keeping her down.

And so all of a sudden she was free. And so that was at this time where I was processing, and I was dealing with everything with my mom. And I thought, sometimes the only way to bring healing is to cut off the source of the disease. And that was like a sermon that God gave me. It was like a word in the form of a dog amputation where I thought, man, doesn't this apply to our life?

Where sometimes there are relationships, there are places that have just become so toxic and so diseased that the only choice you have to do is to cut off the source of the pain. Melanie, that has to be such a struggle as a believer though. Cause the Lord also says, forgive 70 times seven. I mean, in other words, always forgive.

That was his point. So how do you reconcile that? I'm totally on your side, but what a difficult thing to do. Such a difficult thing to do. As a believer, especially to say, I'm gonna amputate this relationship because I need to be free of that toxicity. That's big and it's your mom. And it's your mom. And so you also think honor your father and mother, so that it will go well with you.

I mean, that is like one of the commandments that's tied to a direct blessing in the Bible. And so those were all things that as a believer, I wrestled with for a long time. Where I landed and what I would encourage anyone if you're in that same situation was for me, there had been many years leading up to the time that I actually cut off the relationship with my mom. That happened when my daughter, Caroline was six.

When I made that decision, I was 38 years old. But for me- And you're trying to protect your daughter. And I'm trying to protect my daughter. And ultimately I'm trying to protect myself because she's continuing to cause so much chaos that I began to realize I can't be the healthy mom and wife I want to be if my mom is continually coming into my life and creating chaos and making me feel terrible and causing me to have days where I'm down and depressed and crying. And so I had wrestled with it for years and there had been lots of different behaviors.

And I talk about a lot of that in the book, things that had gone on and different things she had done. So I'd had times where I had thought, is this the time that I say I'm done? At one point, years before I had written probably a 10 page letter of here are all the things that you have done and this is why I'm walking away from this relationship. But here's what God kept bringing me back to. When you do this, you have to be able to do it without bitterness and without anger and with forgiveness in your heart because otherwise you're going to perpetuate the very cycle you're trying to break. And so I personally, by the time I came to that decision, I really was able to say, I forgive you for what you are.

I'm not walking away with bitterness. I just can't maintain this relationship for my own health. Melanie, we touched on this last time, but one of the things, these all seem to be, and of course your mom had bipolar, so there is mental illness, all control issues. For that mom that's listening right now and she has that teenager or that 20 something and is exerting that kind of control, how does she get a grip on that? How does she self-analyze and say, I am wounding my daughter? I mean, wow.

Yeah, it's a great question. I think one thing for me is one thing my mom always said anytime I would confront her is I got to be an adult and I would say, mom, here's what you've done. This is what I can't accept. And she would always say this phrase, I can't think of one single thing I've done, Melanie. I can't think of one. And I thought at that time, my daughter was only five and I thought, well, I can think of 50 things that I probably did wrong last week. So it's kind of being aware of our own failings, like where can I be better? The biggest thing for me is, are you allowing your child to be who God created them to be? Are you allowing them, if their personality is different than your personality, because I think as a woman, you have a daughter and you're like, it's going to be a mini version of me.

I learned really quickly, my daughter is not a mini version of me. I mean, she's got a very distinct personality that's all her own. But again, that screams control. Yes, but you have to be able to surrender that control, to surrender it and to trust God with it.

And that can be, that's a daily, the amount of times I've prayed for my daughter, Lord, I trust you to smooth out her rough edges and to leave the rough edges where they need to remain, where that's part of who she is, but give me the wisdom to know the difference because I did not want to suffocate that personality or that will or that spirit in her, in my need to have her look a certain way or to be a certain way or to achieve these certain things. Because ultimately the control is us just seeing that child as another version of ourselves or an extension of ourselves, as opposed to their own separate creation. Yeah, you know, this isn't part of the book, but I'd love your answer to this because I'm thinking of moms that some of that is fear. It's not just control, it's fear. And I think in the Christian community, particularly as parents, we have a lot of fear for our kids. We fear that they will become drug addicts. We fear that they'll become alcoholics.

We fear that they'll get addicted to pornography. They're not unhealthy fears, but the point you're making I think clearly is the Lord is gonna have a path for your child because ultimately he's in control. And we have got to somehow figure out that God, we trust you even in these dark spaces now with my 17 year old, my 22 year old. And I think in that moment, when you're suffering as a parent, because your child has become a prodigal child, how do you manage that fear and turn that into trust and be able to exude that to that child so that when you are making a connection, they feel the Lord's love and your love for them, not agreement on the behavior.

I know somebody is gonna say, yeah, but what about? I would say, relax and trust God and it's so hard to do. It's so hard to do, but I think I read this.

I wish I could credit whoever said it because it wasn't me, but it's genius. It's worries believing that God isn't gonna get it right. And when I read that, I was like, oh, that is so convicting because anytime I'm worrying, it's ultimately about a scenario that I think should work out a certain way. And I think that our kids are gonna walk these hard paths. And for some, that's gonna be a prodigal road where you see them walk away from the church or from what they've grown up believing. But you have to love them through that. I mean, to me, the condemnation only pushes them further away.

The guilt and shame only pushes them further away. And I think there's a loving way to say, I don't necessarily agree with where you are or the decisions you're making, but I love you. And you are always- Always will. I always will.

There's nothing you can do that is going to outrun my love. And for them to feel that and to see that example of Christ-like love from a parent is, to me, sometimes the very thing that can bring them back. The other thing I feel like God really convicted me of with my own daughter, who's 21 now, is I kept wanting to step in to all these situations. And God so clearly said to me, I can't be her savior if you keep trying to be her savior. So he was telling you, you're meddling. You're basically, get out of my business.

Because I think we wanna protect our kids from all of these things. And sometimes God is like, no, it's these very hard paths and these things that I'm putting in their life that are developing who I want them to be. And it's hard to watch that as a parent. Right, and as you're describing that unconditional love, who does that fit? That's the Lord. That's the Lord. That's us. That's all of us.

Yes. And so when you demonstrate that, you're actually showing the character of God. It doesn't mean you avoid truth. Man, we're so bifurcated in our thinking on this. Like it has to be all love or all truth. It can be both. It can be both. And you need to be able to do that artfully and skillfully as a parent particularly.

Exactly. Well, we so appreciate Melanie Shankle and the story she's been sharing from her own personal experiences and the insights. Let me just say that her book captures much more than we can present these past couple of days. Here Be Dragons, Treading the Deep Waters of Motherhood, Mean Girls, and Generational Trauma.

Contact us today to get a copy. The details are in the show notes. Melanie, you wrote in the book and John mentioned that title, that portion about mean girls, that realization for you that your mother was the first mean girl in your life. Again, a devastating revelation. And I so appreciate your ability as a young person to be able to think that through and come to that conclusion. But speak to that. I mean, wow, that your mom was your mean girl to you.

That's it. And you don't wanna think that, but I've talked to so many women since then that have said, I've had a similar experience where you have your mom as the one who is tearing you down. Your mom is the one that is constantly measuring you, who is competing against you, who is jealous of you, who for whatever reason, it was such a, I had this weird realization, I think when I was pregnant with Caroline and my mom had made the comment to my sister where she said, I'm so tired of Melanie telling me how good her life was or is. And I remember thinking at the time, like what mother wouldn't want? I wasn't even a mother yet, but I thought, oh, I thought that I was just telling, I was just sharing life. Yeah, you were optimistic.

I'm optimistic and life feels pretty good right now. And she had seen me walk down some hard roads as a teenager and gone through some hard things. So I thought to be on the other side of that, why wouldn't there be happiness in there? But it was like her ability, she had a gift of being able to throw away any chance at happiness she ever had. So it made her seem to resent any that I ever found. And I thought, isn't that what a mean girl does?

That's the pattern. Is you view any other woman's success or accomplishments or achievements is less than maybe you can have for your own as opposed to the old thing, a rising tide lifts all boats. Why don't we look at it as one woman's success means that's more success that I could ultimately achieve or that she's had great success here, but God has this path for me and I'm going to have success and achievements on this other road. Yeah, that's a healthy perspective.

And unfortunately we're talking about unhealthy people. And that is a sign though, for a person that maybe is in the fog about it, just that analysis to say, is she ever happy that something good in my life is occurring, whoever the she is, could be a mom, a girlfriend, a sister, whatever. Let me ask you the reflex of this. What I mean by that is Caroline, your daughter ends up with mean girls in her life. That's gotta be troubling like, man, why is this happening now to my daughter? And it happened to me.

What was that circumstance and how did you intervene? It was, you know, it was funny because we got through, I feel like everybody warns you like junior high is gonna be terrible. Oh, it was by the way.

Yeah, it is. Nobody ever says, man, you know the best years of my life, junior high. I mean, those are really hard years. So I was prepared for those years to be hard.

We got through those pretty free. It was not bad. When we had her sophomore year of high school, which ironically was a year she had just gotten her braces off, she had just made the varsity soccer team. I was like, life is good. Like she's got a good group of friends.

This is gonna be great. And about a month into that school year, all of a sudden I started to hear and see, you know, just when I would pick her up from school, cause she still wasn't driving yet. I would pick her up from school and I could tell something was off. And she would be like, well, you know, this person said this today or this thing happened.

And all of a sudden I started to watch this friend group implode. And I think what's so hard about this as a mom and so many moms have experienced this, is these were girls that we'd had in our home. These are girls that I've driven to, you know, slumber parties and have had sleepover at my house and have been at our house for, you know, before dances and all I've curled their hair. I've put their makeup on. I've let them eat my good ice cream, you know, and all of a sudden- Not the good stuff.

I mean, even the good stuff. And so all of a sudden to see this shift was heartbreaking and to try to figure out, because as a mom, I never wanted to be the mom that's like, well, my kid wouldn't do anything wrong. So you're trying to like ask the questions of what did you do? Did something happen?

What caused this behavior? And it really, the focus was there was one girl, ironically, who was a girl that Caroline felt bad for, who she had brought into the group. And this girl, for whatever reason, you know, and why do mean girls do what they do out of her own insecurities, her own jealousies, her own brokenness, just went on this attack against Caroline. I mean, just the cruelest, the text messages she sent, the things that she threatened, the fact, and for me as a mom, to be able to see where she would send these texts that would say, I don't care what lies I have to tell about you. I will destroy you.

I will destroy your reputation. And so I thought, well, she's admitting that she is willing to lie and tell these mistruths. And Caroline was like, I keep trying to talk to her. There's no reasoning with her. And the situation, I watched it just escalate over the next two, three, four months.

And it was heartbreaking. How did you coach Caroline to manage this? I mean, that's probably the biggest issue for the parent because you can make a lot of mistakes as a parent at this point. For sure, yeah. Because you want to clean house, take names.

Yes, yes, show up in the school yard. Yeah, boom, let's get this over with. And that's it, is you're like, how do you, because we very much wanted to raise her because life is full of difficult people and difficult relationships. So, you know, initially you're like, we want her to know how to handle this. Like she needs to learn how to advocate for herself and how to do that.

But it got to a point where you're like, this isn't getting any better. Like she was doing all the things I was saying. Take the high road.

You have to remember my people please her personality. So I'm like, take the high road, be kind, just keep being kind, it's all going to be fine. And it wasn't getting better. I mean, it was almost like they just kept, the nicer she was, the more she tried to take the high road.

It was almost like the worst it got. There finally came a day, and this is where Perry comes in again. Remember he- And this is your husband- This is my husband, yes. Who you described previously as being very discerning. Very discerning, he's a truth teller. He and Caroline have very similar personalities.

So they tend to get each other in a way that sometimes I don't. And there was one day it had been going on about four months and she had come home from school. She was sitting there and was crying and telling us about another terrible day where somebody had cornered her in the bathroom and the things they had said. And he looked at her and he said, this is enough. And he said, this is war. And he said, you do whatever you have to do. He said, you tell them the administration, that you're going to go to the administration.

He said, and if it gets physical, he said, you punch him in the face and I'll meet you in the office. She thankfully did not have to do that. But what I saw happen when her dad gave her permission to fight back and advocate for herself was like a light went on in her eyes. Like she needed to know it's okay for me to stand up for myself in this situation. Because I think for so long, she had just been trying to manage it and she needed to know it was okay to say enough is enough. Yeah, and I think that environment too.

I mean, that's the place where people are trying to persuade this person to kill themselves, vile stuff. And we had all of that was going on. And we have to advocate.

It's kind of like, you get a diagnosis, you have to advocate for your own medical wellbeing. I mean, it's a lighter situation, but you've got to get engaged. You can't just stand back. And I'm so glad that your husband did that. Some people might disagree with that.

I would not. I would say that's the point where you got to move forward and set the boundaries back to your dog's analogy. And David was a great example of that. There's a part of defending yourself that we need to reinstitute.

It's okay. You don't have to take it, take it, take it. And you need the wisdom to know when to do which really. But when they're encouraging you to take your own life and those kinds of things and you're a teenager, that's way over the line.

Way over the line. What are some ways that parents can help their children understand who God created them to be? And when you look at it, it's about identity. And that's something Jean and I have tried to make sure Trent and Troy understand, your identity in Christ. But it takes a lot of forethought as a parent to connect things.

How would you do that? I mean, I think one of the things we tried to tell Caroline from early on is to feed scripture into her life where it's like, you are God's workmanship. You were created for a purpose. He has a road.

He wants you to walk. Like you are wonderfully and fearfully created. Like you are exactly who you were supposed to be for this time, for this generation. So can we look at life out of, we always tried to raise her to have an abundance mentality instead of a scarcity mentality of God has abundant things for you.

He has abundant life for you. To find her identity and who He created her to be. Because I think the world wants to tell, especially I feel like our young women, so many messages about what they're supposed to be or how they're supposed to look or what success really looks like. But we're like, no, this is what God says are the most important things. Like for you to model the fruits of the spirit, for you to operate out of joy and peace and kindness and patience. And I think that's so important. I think the other thing that a parent can do and one thing we really tried to do is home should always be their safest place.

Just a place where you know you were unconditionally loved, your whole self is welcome here. We're going to walk you through any hard road. We're going to listen. I think we're going to listen and not just preach, but we're going to actually listen to how you're feeling about things and what's going on with you. Because a wise older mentor told me when Caroline was little, she said, you have to listen to her when she's young because if you don't listen to her now, she's not going to talk to you later.

And that was so smart because sometimes when they're four and they're telling you about their dream from the night before, you're like, oh my gosh, how long is this going to go on? This is. But it's true.

But it's true. Like they start to pay it to like, are my parents paying attention to me? Are they looking at their phone? Are they engaged? Are they listening to what I have to say?

Are they paying attention to who I am? Because I think when they experience that unconditional love at home, then they take that confidence out into the world. Caroline today is doing fine. She's great. She's in college. She's in college. She, you know, all during high school, you know, the thing you say is the parent, you're like, you don't want to peak in high school.

This isn't the time, you know, you don't want this to be the high point. It's a really amazing thing. They tend to come around. They tend to come around. And I was like, when you get to college, you're going to find it's a bigger pool. You're going to find more people that share your interest. You're going to find people that have the same spiritual depth that you do. And that has really been true for her. Well, that brings the whole two days all the way back around to when you were in college and realized through meeting Perry and you know, just what your circumstances were, you became more knowledgeable about life and the trauma you had come out of.

So that's a beautiful place to end that, you know, hang on mom and dad at 14, 15, 16, there are maturing years ahead of you. Mellie, this has been so good. Thanks for your openness and your boldness. You know, day two here, we never said it, but here be dragons.

It relates to the old maps in antiquity that would be done where shipwrecks would be found and they would consider them a dark thing, a dragon thing, and they would mark it as here be dragons, be careful. And what a great life map example that is for all of us, not just moms and daughters, but dads and sons and the whole family. So thank you for being with us today. Thank you so much for having me really enjoyed it. And if this is resonating with you, which should only be about 90% of the listeners and watchers get a copy of Melanie's book, Here Be Dragons, Treading the Deep Waters of Motherhood, Mean Girls and Generational Trauma.

Just put your hand up if that applies to you. Get ahold of us and if you can make a gift of any amount or make it monthly, we'll send you a copy of her book as our way of saying thank you. And I often do this, if you're in a place where you can't afford it, you know, we're a Christian ministry, we'll get the book into your hands and trust that other believers who support focus will add a little extra to take care of the cost of that. Yeah, your generosity is appreciated. You can donate via the show notes.

The link is right there or give us a call. 800 the letter A and the word family. And coming up on Monday, author of Mama Bear Apologetics, Hillary Ferrer will help you navigate the culture with your kids.

I've had so many women come and say, I didn't have the language to talk about this. I saw this all going on, but I didn't have the words to talk about it and I feel like I've been unmuzzled. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. If the fights with your spouse have become unbearable, if you feel like you can't take it anymore, there's still hope. Hope restored marriage intensives have helped thousands of couples like yours. Our biblically based counseling will help you find the root of your problems and face them together. Call us at 1-866-875-2915. We'll talk with you, pray with you and help you find out which program will work best. That's 1-866-875-2915.