Sunday Faith to Monday Tantrum: Emily Jenson & Laura Wifler

Every mom, you know, God is calling her to her motherhood, to her family, her husband, and that's going to look differently. And so you even see that now in Christian culture.

Sometimes a specific lifestyle or a specific method is kind of held up as the one best way, the holiest way to mother, you know, just it looks so righteous, it looks so good. But what if I can't recreate that because someone's a single mom or they do have a child with disability or there's a myriad of reasons why that might not transfer to another mom's life. Welcome to Family Life Today where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today. Well, we're talking about motherhood today. Yay.

Where should I go back? Should we go back to the hole in the wall when our kids were little toddlers? I don't know why that came to my mind.

For those of you that haven't heard. We haven't talked about this in years and we don't need to talk about it. That was a bad moment in parenting when I kicked a hole in the wall out of my frustration with our three children.

Yeah. And then she patched it up with wallpaper so that Pastor Dave, when he came in the house, wouldn't see it. It was not one of my finest moments. And the boys ran right to it the second I walked in. Look what mom did.

She's so strong. It's like, Dad, you won't believe what mom did today. And there's, you know what I remember about that moment? Feeling utter shame going to bed. I remember apologizing to the boys. Guys, I shouldn't have done that.

I'm so sorry. But as a young mom and as an older mom, one of the things that we can carry is shame and guilt. And it's a heavy thing to carry. Well, today we're not talking about fallen motherhood.

Exactly. That was sort of a fallen motherhood moment. We're talking about risen motherhood. And I know a lot of our, I mean, a lot of our listeners know these two women. It's pretty great just because we have Emily Jensen and Laura Whiffler with us today.

And you're a hero to many, especially young moms who are struggling. So welcome to Family Life today. Oh, thank you for having us. It's a joy to be here.

Yes, we are so excited to be here. I got to know, have you ever kicked a hole in the wall? Man, I kind of wish I had that claim to fame. That's impressive. I'm not sure I could if I tried.

It shows you what was happening in my heart. We've definitely had moments. I remember one time I have this like walkie-talkie app and I was messaging my dad and I was getting frustrated. We had three under three at one time. Were your twins born at that time?

Yes. So we had twins and they were all in the kitchen and they were asking for juice boxes or something. And I turned the messaging app on and I said something grumbly to them, you know, you just need to wait because I'm going to get your juice in a minute or whatever. And then I looked down and I clicked it off and I went, you know, because my angry voice was caught on a message.

And that was one of my moments where I just was kind of caught in my frustration and I felt embarrassed later. Tell us about your families and about what you do. Sure. So I'm Emily and I've been married to my husband, Brad, for 14 years. And we have five kids ranging in ages from six to 11. And so to do that math, you have to put a set of twins in there. That's how that worked. I mean, you had five under five at one time.

Yeah, like my oldest turned five and then I went into labor the next day with our fifth. So it's really close in there. Yeah. Yeah.

It was those were some wild years that I'm still looking back and recovering from a little bit. Unbelievable. And you married Laura's brother. Yes. I'm married to one of Laura's older brothers.

Yes. So your sister-in-law. We're family. Yes, we're sister-in-laws, which is so fun. And we get to work together, which is incredible. And so I'm Laura Whiffler and I am married to Mike and have three kids. Emily and I live about a mile apart in central Iowa, so very close to one another, which is a joy. And my kids range from 10 to six, no twins.

Math works perfectly. And two of your boys right now are running around our studio somewhere. That's right. It's so fun. I'm really curious what they're doing. They saw that papa shot when they walked in.

It's better not to know. Snacks, pop, basketball. There's a we maybe.

Going to Universal tomorrow. Life can be better. Oh, they are living the best life. And you each, which is super unusual, have children that have disabilities. And we're going to talk about that as we go on.

You've written a children's book on it and you mention it in your other books as well. So tell us about Risen Motherhood. We've heard so much about it. It's impacting people all around the world, right? That's our understanding.

Hard to believe. So what was the vision for this? So we launched Risen Motherhood in 2016. We had babies and toddlers at the time. And we really were having these conversations about how really mundane aspects of motherhood connected to Scripture, connected to the gospel. Things like potty training. Does God care how I potty train? Or, you know, something like getting your kids to sleep through the night.

Does it matter what method I use over another method? How am I supposed to be thinking about feeding my kids? And so Laura and I were having those types of conversations with each other. And we just knew a lot of friends who were having really similar conversations. I think at that time it felt like there were a lot of practical tips for moms out there. And then there was a lot of theological truth, but like there was a little bit of a disconnect happening. And so we really wanted to bridge that gap with some relatable conversations between two moms. So I just messaged Laura one day and said, what if we just aired these conversations and we started a podcast and the whole thing kind of spun out of control from there or into God's will?

I don't know. Yeah, it's pretty incredible. I was a little bit reluctant at first, which is why I smile while she says that.

But I'm so glad she convinced me to do it. And through the years as a motherhood, it started out as just a podcast, but it has since grown. And now it has social media platforms and articles and free downloads, Bible studies, prayer resources. Everything we do, we're able to offer for free because we're a nonprofit, which is such a joy.

I know you guys share in that with us. And so it's been cool to see the ministry really grow, but also at its heartbeat. We just want to create content that encourages moms and helps them connect, you know, that Sunday morning snotty nose to the Monday morning breakfast. And I'm sorry, the Sunday morning sermon to the Monday morning snotty nose. They probably had a snotty nose at church. Laura, what resonated with the moms, the practicality of it?

And how do we bring God and Jesus into that in the gospel? I think so. We were asking really, really practical questions. I mean, what do we think about breastfeeding? What do we think about diapers? Like what kind of diapers do we buy? I mean, some of these questions that at the time, a lot of mommy bloggers and mommy influencers at the time, they were really talking about these things and just telling you, this is what to do.

Here's how to create snack time for your kids. Here's how to think about TV and media. Here's how to think about bedtime. But at the time, there just wasn't a lot of people weaving the gospel into it. And that was what Emily and I were asking is like, well, if there's a best way, it's probably not because this mom influencer told us, it's because Scripture has said something about that.

But you're not going to find potty training in Scripture. And so we started talking through how to apply the gospel to everyday life, how to think critically through God's word about these things that we were really facing as moms. And so, yeah, I think that is what resonated is there wasn't a lot of people talking in that way. And it was really one of those needs that moms all over the world were really asking. And it wasn't formulaic. I think that was something. We weren't saying buy Pampers.

That wasn't the conclusion we came to. If you do this, this will happen. Exactly. And every mom, God is calling her to her motherhood, to her family, her husband.

And that's going to look differently. And so you even see that now in Christian culture. Sometimes a specific lifestyle or specific method is kind of held up as the one best way, the holiest way to mother. You know, just it looks so righteous.

It looks so good. But what if I can't recreate that because someone's a single mom or they do have a child with disability or there's a myriad of reasons why that might not transfer to another mom's life? Well, if you go back to the Bible and you're using these principles that are true for all people for all of time and you're applying the wisdom of the word of God to your situation, he's going to lead you in what that's going to look like. And so I think we also found that moms were really refreshed by this idea that it's not about fitting into the box of what my friend does.

It's about following the Lord and asking for his wisdom in whatever life he's given me. I remember going to my son and daughter Nola's house and your book, Risen Motherhood, was on the table. This is years ago.

Yeah, Kendall said to me, have you read this book? And at the time she had four kids. I guess she still has four kids. At the time, those kids. But she doesn't have five or nine.

But she had, I think she had four kids under five. And she said, this book is getting me through these hard, hard days. And I think that right after that is when we called you two and said, we can't wait to have you on. One of the things you talk about is if Christ really changes everything, how does he change potty training? I laughed when I read that. Like, these are the things we think about when we're potty training. Like, does Jesus even care?

Is this separate? So, in it, this is the craziest thing. You explain the gospel. Well, here's the thing. What? I pick up, you know, how many mother's books have I read? You know, but I read yours.

Awesome. Because I had to get ready for the interview. But, you know, and I'm seeing on the title, Gospel Hope. And I'm like, okay, how are they going to bring the gospel in?

You don't just bring it in. Every chapter. Because I read the first chapter and you go, creation fall, redemption, consummation. I'm a pastor. I preach this. Yeah.

I'm like, oh, that's great. There's your theme. You never leave it. I know.

You pick a topic and you go. We have a drum beat. We like it.

We just play hard. You know. So, I think it'd be great for our listeners. How would you explain that, creation fall, redemption, consummation?

Yeah. It's just a mnemonic device that helps us remember the big story of God's big story. And so, when we think of the word creation, we're just thinking about God's design for mankind. When we're thinking about the fall, we're remembering that sin and brokenness has touched everything.

The curse has touched everything in life. And then, we're thinking about redemption. We're remembering that piece of the gospel that it's like Jesus came. He lived a perfect life. He died.

He rose. And now, if you're following Him, you get the Spirit. You get to be part of the church. Right? There's hope. And then, when we talk about consummation, we're really looking ahead to what's coming. Right?

When Jesus returns and all things are made new, there's perfect, just judgment given. So, all of those pieces become, I'd say, like little anchors that when you are processing through a practical situation and you're wondering, yeah, what does potty training have to do with the gospel, you can start to go through those anchors in your mind. And that's how you can preach the gospel to yourself in that situation. And also know that it's part of a bigger story. Right? This moment that you're experiencing is part of something that matters more.

You know? Give us an example of like, walk us through something in your life that you totally implemented. I mean, it could be potty training, but it could be anything. It's been a while since we've done that.

I'm really rusty on potty training. Maybe something you're going through now. Yeah.

Let me think. A lot of the stuff that we're looking at now is very, it's almost less practical as you move out of the young years. And so I'm thinking through like media choices. That's something that I feel like even moms of really young children are thinking a lot about media choices, but that continues on. And I think as we think through the gospel, the mnemonic device, and that's not original to us. We hope everybody realizes we don't claim to have invented it.

Many people have used it, but it has been really handy for us and helpful. But when we think about things like media choices, I mean, I don't know, this is where I got to like start thinking. Yeah. Like personally you're saying.

Say it again. Or with your kids. With our kids. Yeah. Like a question moms a lot ask is, you know, well, what can I show my children?

Yeah. And it's good to know like, hey, God designed us to love good stories and to enjoy fun and entertainment and things like I think in and of itself, right? All that is good, true, and beautiful comes from God and our hearts long for that.

And so our kids wanting to watch a good story or be entertained or enjoy things like that's great, right? There's nothing wrong with that. But then you have to think about that fall piece. Well, not every media choice post fall, like there's a lot of sin in there. There's things that are going to distort the truth. There's things that are not of God. And we want to be cautious about what we expose ourselves to and what we're filling our minds and our hearts with. And so that redemptive piece is like if you're following Jesus, well, you want to love like Him, live like Him, fill your mind with all that's good, true, and beautiful. And you know, I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah. Listen to the prompting of the Holy Spirit. That's your conscience, you know, or that's not your conscience, but He prompts you and helps you know what is good and what is wrong to engage in. And I think then in looking at the hope of heaven, knowing that one day all media will be redeemed, all of those things, you know, we know that someday we're going to go to heaven and it's not going to be, you know, yeah, exactly. We're not going to have to cover our eyes.

We're not going to have to monitor these things. And that's just an incredible hope to look forward to. And so you can, I think as we start to get the gospel under our skin and you start to learn to think in this way, and it is a learned way of thinking. I think that's key. It's not something we may not naturally bend to. It's not natural. Yeah.

Yeah. And so you have to be very intentional of making it become a habit, almost like the neuroplasticity in our brains, like we're going down this certain path that we haven't gone many times, but we're going to make this become a habit. I can remember our kids being little, cleaning toilets with three little boys who are potty trained.

You mean cleaning the wall? Because they didn't have to tell you. And I can remember thinking like, I don't even get, I don't see any good in this. And I remember like being in the Word later and even being in the Word is hard for young moms. Now I would listen to it as young mom, but I remember just catching moments like I have to be in the Word.

It's my anchor. But I remember after, I can't remember what I read, but I thought that can be my worship moment. Like God sees, there's not a time he hasn't seen me wiping a bottom, wiping noses, cleaning the sink, all the things that I'm doing. He notices that and I could either complain and grumble about it or I can make it this worship experience of like, I get to do these things and my kids see my attitude about it.

I just think that what you're doing is so stinking practical. Is that something you're being able to live out now because you're in a phase with younger kids. I mean, they're running around our studio right now and that's only one of each of yours. And that's, yeah, that's your oldest. And when we walk in our daughter-in-law's houses, I mean, we remember because now we're grandparents, but it's like, it's chaos. And you can see... And they're good moms.

They're awesome. Every home with littles is chaos. They're exhausted and they're frazzled and you can feel the tension in the marriage. Cause it's a hard season of your life. So talk about that for you too. You're leading a major ministry as well as being moms and writing about it.

Is it hard? Of course. Absolutely. I think that's where the identity in Christ piece becomes so important because I think if our hope for our goodness before the throne of God is in how good we're doing as a mom, that's really discouraging. Cause we've already talked about, you know, sometimes you kick a hole in the wall.

Sometimes do yell. Sometimes you do things and you realize like you're just unable and you fall short and you don't have what it takes to be the perfect wife and the perfect mom and the perfect homemaker and the perfect worker and the perfect friend. Like you just, you're not going to be all of those things, but in Christ we are fully righteous before the throne of God and we get to rest in that. And then, you know, even Jesus wasn't in all places at all times, right?

In his physical body, he was ministering to one person at a time, one group of people at a time, wherever God was leading him that day. And so I think I take a lot of comfort in that idea that yes, there's a lot of people who need me. You know, there's a lot of areas where I'm maybe not doing as much as I want to be doing, but I'm following hopefully step by step, moment by moment, what God is calling me to do that day. And that's all I can do. Is that the kind of thing that when you go to bed, we have that choice of beating ourselves up, feeling the shame, meaning the enemy is the accuser?

So how have you done that? I'm sure that you guys have felt that. Laura, have you felt that when you've gone to bed? Absolutely. And I love how you said that you have a choice, because I think that's the thing we forget is that our heads hit the pillow and suddenly the narrative is playing that we have failed, that we have been a bad mom, here are all the ways that we haven't done it right, here are all the ways we're going to be better tomorrow. And I think that that's the moment that we can just stop and say, hold on, I want to take control of every thought and get captive.

That's right. And recognize that it's a battlefield of the mind. And that is where we can say, okay, Lord, I wasn't perfect. I think it's important that we acknowledge like, we probably did sin that day. You know, there's probably some confession going on.

Absolutely. There needs to be confession. It's not that we just say like, oh, just grace, grace, grace, and just only that, but we recognize, okay, these are ways that I, these are ways I behaved that I don't want to behave anymore. And so we confess that to the Lord, we ask His forgiveness. And then from there, we can also look at all these other things that, you know, Satan is just heaping on.

And that's that condemnation that is extra that, that God hasn't placed there. And we can ask, well, Lord, is that something I should have done today? Maybe it's that we feel like, oh, man, I was supposed to, you know, go get these errands done, or I was supposed to make this incredible party and I didn't get started planning this birthday party.

Well, has God asked us to make big, huge birthday parties? You know, and that's where knowing the gospel and understanding what's in the Bible is so important for a mom. Because when we do the day replay, we realize or have to remember what is actually, what God is actually asking of us. And so often we're adding to the list of what a faithful mom looks like. And I'll never forget, someone once said to us, you know, she said, I'm so thankful that God hasn't asked me to be faithful in another mom's life, because that would be very, very hard. But when we look at another mom's life, and we think she's being perfectly faithful, she's getting it all done, she's doing perfectly, and we look at ours and feel that we failed and measured up, but he only asked us to be faithful in our own. And actually, when it comes down to it, when we understand what God has really asked of moms, it's actually quite simple, you know, it's loving Jesus, it's loving our families, it's being faithful to our children to raise them to know and love God. And all of these tertiary things that I think we add on that create that end of day guilt are really just extras that if we thought critically for a little while, I think we'd see that so many of those things, and we can leave at the cross and leave them there and don't have to worry about them.

That's good. Yes, that's something I've watched Anne, obviously, 43 years married now. Our oldest is 37, 36, but I've watched her carry, not now, but back in the earlier days, mom guilt. There's that mom shame, and then there's guilt that you just sort of address. Is that something you've been able to take to the cross, or is it something you still carry or is it a daily, weekly, you know, sort of journey?

Yeah. I mean, I think every mom struggles with things that she regrets, moments that she looks back on in her day and thinks, oh, I shouldn't have handled it that way. And then like Laura said, sometimes there's things that just, expectations we've put on ourselves that aren't from scripture that are nice to do, but they could be from social media, social media, they can be from our friends.

So one tool that Laura and I have used is just to say, like, you always want to examine your guilt. So no matter what it is, don't stuff it down or ignore it. And that's what we usually see moms do is just they live with it. It's just you internalize it deep inside. Don't live with it. And then it becomes normal. Yes, it becomes normal.

It's just that hum of mom guilt is like their friend. Because when you look at it, there's always freedom on the other side because either you're going to look at it and find out that this is something you actually need to confess and repent and there's freedom there, or you're going to look at it and God's going to give you that wisdom to say, you know what, this wasn't something that I had to do anyway. This is okay.

This is something I can let go. And I can walk in freedom knowing that I don't have to do the elaborate birthday parties. You know, we were talking last night at dinner about traveling and like all the different trips people take their kids on. And I was telling Laura, you know, something that I rest in knowing is that that's a nice to do, but that's not God's requirement for my motherhood is to take our kids on these amazing trips. And so that's something when I feel the guilt about that, I just let it go because I would love to, but that's not a biblical requirement for motherhood.

I think if, if moms can just examine their guilt, you know, then you can walk forward in freedom. Emily and I will often say, you know, naming the feelings, actually I'm going to say this first story, but now I say it all the time. Naming the feeling takes away like 70% of the feelings power, you know. That's good.

Say that again because this is really good for moms to listen to. So naming how you feel takes away about 70% of that feelings power and unscientific, maybe it is scientific. Yeah, I got to go find the stuff that I came from. Sissy Goff would agree with you, she's always talking about naming the feelings.

Yes. And there is something there I think that when we can just even when maybe we're confused, maybe it's end of day, kind of the replay that's going on. Maybe it's in the middle of the day and suddenly we feel anger because life is out of control or whatever it is. I have really learned that it is helpful for me to tell Emily or another good friend, hey, here's how I'm feeling or here's what I am worried about or here's what I'm upset about. And so often the moment that it comes out of our mouth, we don't even need a response quite yet. It is like, okay, that just it takes out like the hotness of that feeling. And I think that sometimes when maybe we as moms, we do get confused or we can't see clearly, we can't preach the gospel to ourselves with how we're feeling.

If we can just bring in our friends, bring in the family member, tell her husband, whomever it might be, but to tell them how we're feeling. I think that there's a lot of power in just bringing that truth to light. And then also, a lot of people look at Emily and I and they're like, wow, how did you get here?

How did you learn all these things? Well, it's because we talked about it for hours and hours and hours and hours. And we have spent and logged just days on Voxer and other ways of talking with one another where we've learned together and we've grown together. And so that is like a huge encouragement I think for moms is they grow in this skill of understanding, identifying guilt, identifying shame, what you do afterwards, how to process the gospel. That is where you need to bring community in and bring in your friends and start naming things, start talking about things, being open about things and not hiding them.

I love how practical that is too. And also, and you would probably agree with this too, of naming it to God. You said that telling God everything you're feeling. Like one of our kids called the other day and I said, you know what you should do?

They have little kids. So you can't be gone for long. So one of the, you know, his wife is there, I said, just walk to the end of your street, talk to God, tell him everything you're feeling. And even that, it's almost like this balloon in your chest that's full, it just deflates as you're walking.

And I think the friend piece is big. What are you saying to the women that say, I don't have anybody? I think it's really common in motherhood to experience loneliness. And it's also really common to believe that you are all alone and you're the only one who understands what you're going through.

No one could possibly get you. And at some level, everyone's life is very unique. And so there is some truth to that. But I also think that for someone who feels completely and utterly alone, at some level, my encouragement to them would be to say, perhaps you have felt great sorrow because like for me, a child with disabilities, but I have many friends who may not relate on that level of a child with disabilities, but they have known grief, they have known pain, they have known their life not maybe going the way that they thought. And so there are people that I think we can find and connect with, that if we perhaps have a broader view of what a friend can look like, and what understanding can look like and encouragement the gospel can look like, suddenly friendship can be formed. And it's also putting yourself in places where you can find friends. And again, in young motherhood, oftentimes, we are isolated to our home or just going to work and back home. And there are not a lot of ways to make connections. Or we feel too tired to make that connection or we feel like it'd be too much work to get our kids out.

But it is always worth the work. And it may take time, it may take a year or two or more of praying and asking God to give you a friend. But it also means that we have to go into spaces where we can make those friends. So the local church, obviously, is a huge place for a young mom to make friends. And so many churches have incredible programs designed just for that, because we know that that's a really hard season for moms.

It may mean texting neighbors, it may mean getting involved in your school's PTO or in the daycare programming. I mean, there are a lot of ways if we just say, okay, I'm willing to make some effort. But I think what happens very quickly is that we sort of kind of fold in on ourselves. And that's what that's what Satan wants. He wants us to believe that there's no one out there that can get us. There's no one out there that can help us. There's no one that wants to even be a friend. But there's another mom out there, I'm sure, that feels just like you. And if we can get you guys to the same spot, hopefully at your local church, there's a friendship to be had. And maybe you pull another mom in your neighborhood at your church and say, hey, I have this book called Risen Motherhood. Do you want to go through it with me? What a great way to start.

That would be our hope for sure. I'm Shelby Abbott and you've been listening to Dave and Anne Wilson with Emily Jensen and Laura Whiffler on Family Life Today. I just think this conversation today was so relatable. If you're a mom, the struggle is real and I hope this time today was kind of like a lifeline for you. And if you want to hear more from Emily and Laura, they've written a book called Risen Motherhood, Gospel Hope for Everyday Moments.

This really will help you to find guidance and encouragement when you're trying to navigate just really the complexities of motherhood in a world filled with confusion and conflicting advice. You can get your copy right now by going online to familylifetoday.com. And when you're on our website at familylifetoday.com, there's a little button at the top of the page that says donate now. And we'd love for you to become a partner with us here at Family Life and be a part of our community of helping to reach marriages and families all over the world. And when you give this month and become a monthly partner, the cool thing is that's happening here in May is that every gift that you give will be matched dollar for dollar up to $500,000. So when you become a monthly partner at $50 a month, it actually becomes $100 a month just all this month. So again, you can find out more information about how to give at familylifetoday.com. Or you can give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329.

And that number is 800, F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. And another great benefit of becoming a monthly partner is that you get to participate in our new online community and be a part of the conversation that's happening here at Family Life, including a live Facebook event with the Wilsons and me, Shelby Abbott, on June 5th at 7 p.m. Again, that's for monthly partners. And if you want to learn a little bit more about how to give, you can find more details in the show notes at Family Life Today. Now coming up tomorrow, what are some practical tips for maintaining a healthy marriage while parenting children with disabilities?

That's obviously a complex conversation and topic. Well Emily Jensen and Laura Whiffler are back tomorrow with the Wilsons to talk about just that and provide you with some hope. That's coming up tomorrow and we hope you'll join us. On behalf of David Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.