Running on Fumes: David & Meg Robbins

There's all sorts of reasons we can get to this numb, flat place when the numbness turns into hardening of heart. We're going to have these seasons. I think that's where we have to pay attention to it because then you're going to be hardened to the Lord, to the relationships that matter most to you, that you want to cultivate the most.

And what gets hardened is the ability to experience a godly sorrow and therefore repent. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com.

This is Family Life Today. Okay, I don't know is this how we start a show, but Jackson Brown, famous song, back in the 70s. Running on empty, running on, running on. Should have started a little lower key, but you ever heard that song, honey? I have.

Come on, I know you have. I didn't know who it was. We've got a younger couple in the studio. I wonder if they even know who Jackson Brown is.

David and Meg Robbins, present at Family Life, back in the studio. Do you guys know who Jackson Brown is? I know that song for sure.

You do? I think I know that song because of Forrest Gump, watching that as a kid. That is right. That's right.

You're right. This comes on Ford's regular station. He loves music. He can classic stuff. It's a classic. I was just also impressed with the acapella moment there. That was gutsy.

Instead of grabbing a guitar. Well, the question is how do you know when you're running on empty? When your life maybe is in fumes, maybe your marriage is running on empty. We're going to talk about that today.

What are the signs? We could call it five signs, like a Friday five, but when your soul or your life is feeling like I'm drained. Or your marriage or your family. Maybe it's one and the same.

Maybe it's different. So this is good. Signs even that your marriage could be struggling. Yeah, like you need a rest. Your marriage needs a rest or your life needs a rest. What's the first one you guys think of? Yeah, I think the first one is just when you're feeling numb, you know, and you just feel everything just kind of flat and muted.

You don't have lots of emotions at all. You're just kind of coasting, you know, just getting through. I mean, I think in our marriage, how that the numbness can look is just like passing on the go. And there's a tag, you're it nature of life when there's young kids. And it feels like it only gets more complex. I mean, talking with you guys and other friends that you have adult children, like, you know, it's not like that season is simpler.

You know, you multiply the number of people. They may not be living with you all the time. And so you end up passing in different ways because you're going and keeping kids here or whatnot. But every phase allows those times where you're just, you know, passing each other by even and living life and you don't slow down to really experience what you're feeling. And so you stop sharing and there all of a sudden emotional intimacy just kind of dries up. Have you been there?

Like when you feel numb in your marriage? We've been there. Are we there now?

I'm there personally right now. I can see it, Meg. I do the same thing because I stop noticing the people around me and their feelings.

It could be at the airport. And generally when I'm full and I've been with Jesus, I can look at people, I can pray for them. I can see like, oh, they're sad. She's sort of dangerous at the airport. She'll run over to some total stranger. Like, what are you doing?

And she's just loving them and serving them. But I'm like, get back here. Right now though, my eyes are on myself. What happens is when I start getting kind of numb, my eyes go inward. It's kind of like when you're sick, all you can think of is like, I don't feel good. And that's what happens to me.

My heart shuts down a little bit and I stop seeing those around me. And especially even in our family, it's weird guys. I don't do it with my kids. I still always see my kids, but Dave, I think he'll be fine. And so I don't see his needs of what's going on as much. Welcome to our family room the last couple months.

Am I your husband or are you married to the grandkids? I mean, it can sometimes feel like she's running to somebody else. But I mean, you think about it. When you're in some kind of pain, it's hard to be outward focused. Maybe you didn't know this. No, no. Two of my front teeth were knocked out.

No, I thought you were about to give us another song, but this is an interesting fact about Dave Wilson. Well, I could do All I Want For Christmas With My Two Front Teeth because I went two Christmases without my two front teeth. What happened? Well, long story short, but I was coaching high school football and a kid's elbow hit my front teeth and I had to get implants, but it got infected. Bone graft, infection, more infection. Anyway, it took a long time.

I had to wear what they call a flipper, which is like a retainer with your two front teeth and you slip it in there. But there were times where the pain was really strong. And then I had a back thing going on that I had surgery on. All I know is I recognized during that time was I'm around all these people and inside they have no idea I'm really in pain right now. And I thought, this is what people live with every day. Maybe chronic physical pain, but if they're in emotional pain and they haven't been able to fill their soul in any way, and maybe they're in a seasonal life where that's not even like possible because they're taking care of somebody or they're having to be taken care of.

We have a dear friend right now in a hospital that is struggling to get her life back. I just thought so many people are walking around us and they're feeling what I'm feeling all the time and we're disappointed they're not coming through for us. And it's like, they can't. So in some ways that's what it feels like.

You're on fumes and it's like, how do I get recharged? Yeah. I think one of the hardest things about this that ends up affecting all of our relationships with the Lord, the ones we care about most like spouse or our kids, is that when we are numb and we choose not to pay attention to the numbness, because we're going to have these seasons. All of us. All of us will. Maybe doubt floods in or there's all sorts of reasons we can get to this numb flat place when the numbness turns into hardening of heart. I think that's where we have to pay attention to it because then you're going to be hardened to the Lord, to the relationships that matter most to you, that you want to cultivate the most. And what gets hardened is the ability to experience a godly sorrow and therefore repent. What gets hardened is the ability to lift your eyes, to remember how God is being faithful. And these are hard seasons sometimes, but yet I do feel like you've got to clear away and just do everything we can when there's numbness to keep a softness of heart. And I think that becomes dangerous when we kind of let the numbness crust over and go, okay.

And that happens too sometimes. And you're like, all right, Lord, I want to invite you to chip away and soften my heart again and give me that Ezekiel 36 new heart that receives the things of you and not my heart of stone that focuses on my flesh. I also thought of Revelation 2 because it's a little bit of you lost your first love for the Lord and maybe even your marriage.

And what does he say to the church? She lost your first love. Repent and do the things you once did.

And I think it's easy in marriage to not date, not talk like we used to. It's like, and the next thing you know, you're numb. All right, another sign.

Well, I like these, you guys, because it's almost like the engine light of your dashboard in your car is going off. So one that you just said, Meg, is that just when you know you're feeling numb. One last thing I'll say about that, the danger of numbing out is that we often think of numbing because of the pain, you know, but when we do that, you also lose out on the joy that you can experience. You can't numb the pain without numbing the joy. And God has made us in life, even when we're in really hard seasons of loss and grief, to still be able to engage with joyful moments. And sometimes if you're, you know, in the depths of grief, you can even feel guilty for feeling joy. But I think the danger of numbing is that we lose both. You can't really lose one without losing the other. It's the book of James when they're all being persecuted and martyred for their faith.

And James says, consider it all joy when you encounter various trials. That part. How about we trade out?

Y'all go number two. My first thought was, and I know Ann will agree, anger. Chippy, snippy, mean.

I'm talking about me. Ann does, you don't get that snippy every once in a while, but I, when I'm on fumes, you know, I mean, don't even let me drive a car because I'm yelling at every driver around me. Ann's always like, you are the most arrogant driver. I'm perfect and everybody else is wrong. Like, you know, you're going 55 in the left passing lane. Get over and let me go by. And I mean, there's a level of anger just under the surface that I think is just like a, it's like a dashboard light going, you got to look at this because anger's always plugged into something.

It's always got an extension cord. Sometimes it's the situation you're in, but most of the time you haven't dealt with something. Maybe you're just not fueling your soul. Maybe your schedule's out of whack. And there are times where there's nothing you can do about that.

You just got to run pretty hard. But I think, I think we need to look at our schedule sometime and say, is my anger, is it inappropriate? And you need a wife and a spouse to go, yeah, it's inappropriate, dude. I mean, the time you walked into the garage and I'm, this is years ago, but then again, we're in the, we're in your stage. We had little kids, actually younger kids than you have. I keep hearing this noise in the garage and I go out, our kids are little, I think they were, one of them was out there with you and you have a wrench in your hand. I had a pipe wrench.

If you had a plumbing pipe wrench, they're heavy and big. He's hitting the lawnmower over and over with this pipe wrench and kicking it. And I had a good reason it wouldn't start. You know, that's why. But Ann like looks at me like, okay, there's a problem here. I'm like, what are you talking about? This stupid mower? You know, and it was like, that was plugged in to not the mower. It was our life.

It is good to have a spouse. We were doing a conference one time. Oh yeah, we did. We can remember. In Los Angeles, again, during sort of this season of our life, we've been on the team 30 some years. So our kids were little, it was after the last talk and people were saying, thank you, thank you.

And they, you know, and we were tired and exhausted and our life was on fumes. And this lady says to me, and Ann's standing right beside me, some stranger, she was there all weekend. She said, oh, you guys were wonderful. I just wish you were my pastor. I would love to hear you preach every Sunday. And I say to her, if I was your pastor, you'd hate me in a week.

That's what I said. And Ann just grabs my arm and goes, okay, we need to talk about it. Thank you. That's the nicest thing for you to say that. Like, come on, honey, let's get out of here. And she said to me, as we got in the elevator, she goes, you are fried, dude. You need a break. You just responded to that nice lady with a condom. She's like, I am such an idiot.

You would hate me. That's what I said. And there were things going on where, you know, that's kind of feedback you're getting when you're leading something, but that's a sign you need to recharge and maybe your marriage needs to recharge. It could be a vacation.

It could just be pulling away. But yeah, I appreciate that you call it what it is and say anger. Cause I think for me, I can easily justify and be like, I'm just moody. Or like if I'm being snippy and David's like, are you okay? Like he's trying to give me like that gentle treading in.

How do I say this without attacking me? You know? And you know, I'm like, I'm just tired.

And it's easy to justify, you know? Oh, I'm just, I'm just not, I'm just tired. I'm just snippy. Sorry.

You know? And, and move on. But it's like, no, I actually have to stop and take a minute. Like, okay. Like this is actually anger.

Like it's not, and that's not what it, this is about. There's emotions under there. It's usually a symptom of something else. I can remember saying one time to the kids, like, okay, everybody, like I'm in a bad mood. I just want you, I'm in a bad mood. I don't even know why yet, but I just want you all to know it.

I mean, honestly though, how healthy, because the comment, I don't know why yet shows them, Hey, I'm actually going to dig into this. And I love that. I think how often do we hear, I'm fried. I'm fried. I'm maxed.

I'm a goodness. It's all the, whatever we're doing. It's just too much.

And yet we don't go look at the why. And I don't know why yet. That's actually a very inviting phrase that I'm going.

I need to, this is, it's just so pathetic because I own Saturday. The team that we root for the most just got toasted and blitzed. I will say that proudly because it's been there my whole life and the good times and bad. I watched David and I thought of you the whole time. Like, but I'm like, I was snippy. I was the definition of snippy and chippy with my kids. And I was like, how does this determine your mood for the rest of the day? But it was totally felt unrelated. And then when I was just like, what is my problem? I was like, it's the game.

That is so lame yet. Okay. I can own that. Let me own it and move on.

But anyway. But I think it's when in our marriage, when we're have ongoing anger, shortness, you're not necessarily writing on fumes if you have a day where you're angry and you don't know why, or you're mad about a football game. Like we're not saying that's a major red flag in your life, but when we have like unexplained ongoing underlying anger, I think that's when we have to really be honest and say, okay, what do I need to, you know, pop the head in my life and really dig in and see.

This is just sticking around and why. Do you want me to go deep? Sure.

Sure. It's not deep, but you know what you're talking about Meg. I did a study years ago because Ann said to me when our kids were little, you're angry a lot.

And so I did this study and I'm not going to get into it. It was after the lawnmower situation. It was related. You're scaring me is what I hear there.

And she just said there was a child out there. I'm like, Oh, how did that scar him? But it's called chronic anger. And it's the kind of anger that's, you're around somebody and you don't know what's going to, they're going to explode. It's like, there's levels of anger, but it's like scary. And mine was, and I would encourage someone, if you're not sure what it's plugged into, it may be this. Mine was forgiveness.

I had never wrestled through forgiving my dad. And so I brought that into our marriage and didn't even know it. And that anger level got my attention enough to go, I think I got to look and I'm sort of searching around the dark.

It's like, Oh, here it is. And it isn't always just one thing, but I bet there's a listener to go on, you know, there's something in my life. I got bitterness and that bitterness is seeping into my marriage and into my kids. And it's going to become my legacy. If I don't do the hard work of saying, how do I get to forgiveness? And I had to get there and it changed our legacy.

Yeah, it did. So I would do. That's powerful.

Let me stay, that's good. Because we do, we all bring bags in. We do. We know that we have to deal with things.

Yeah, we do. Okay, it's your turn. All right. I think I'm going to relate the next one to the previous one because when a low lying anger and chippiness comes in my life, usually for me as a fairly positive person, you know, like that's usually my MO, but when I get out of that, it's because I am going off of adrenaline and just plowing to the next thing and unable to actually stop. And so I ended up getting on fumes when I'm just churning with adrenaline to the next thing, accomplishing, getting the next thing done, next speaking engagement, next travel trip, next thing with kids, being present for them.

Oh yeah, we're going on a date. Like I'm just going with it and I'm filling the calendar back to back to back and doing some good, like all of it's kind of fitting in, trying to manage it all. And yet I'm not really showing up at any of it. You know, I ended up just living what I know I want to be true and be there for, but yet I'm not really showing up and that I'm just being propelled and adrenaline to the next thing, the next thing. But my presence is not there.

Even though I may be physically there. And so I'm embraced that I end up running on fumes when I can't tell that I'm full. Like I like, you know, when we're, when we have hunger and we eat, we get full. And sometimes when it comes to a marriage that ends up or our family that gets on fumes, for me, what I bring to the marriage a lot of times is, yeah, I've been full for three months and I haven't paid attention to it.

And I like that barometer to be able to experience the dashboard light and respond to it. I have a problem seeing it sometimes because I just keep going. And so me really owning that, and yes, there's been boundary conversations in the past have been really good, but there's like, God just invites me deeper. I'm in a season right now of him inviting me deeper into that. And it does put our family on fumes often and I lead us there. I find myself doing that same thing, David, like we'll have really busy weeks of work or conferences and speaking. And I find when I come off of that, I'll get a migraine. And I had someone say, oh, it's because you're coming off your adrenaline high. But then when you have that headache and then you go on to the next thing where your adrenaline rises up again, it's not a great pattern. And so it's just not healthy for the soul, for your marriage and for your relationships. And I've been trying to figure out the balance of that because you're going to have those times where you're just so busy.

Right. But how do you balance that? How have you found, and we've been talking about this for the last few days too with you, Meg, you're trying to find more balance in the adrenaline rush and coming down.

What's helped you? I mean, one is balance is a hard word because it really is almost impossible to live out. And withdrawals and deposits is something that we talk about a lot. Like there will be seasons or times where there's a lot of withdrawals.

The bank account, if you keep withdrawing, it has its cost and you feel it. Well, are we putting in the deposits to not only keep it above in the black, but are we really investing and figuratively speaking into the relationships that we want? And so I have just had to make space. I mean, that's my number one thing is that I have gone in now and we have Friday day lunch that you're like, it's just not going to get compromised unless there's a very unique thing. If we don't have that, then our dates just get squeezed at night, sports get scheduled, a special choir event or whatever else just takes you out of the rhythm. Multiple mornings a week, I'm calling them a zero entry morning where not all vocations allow you to do this, but a lot of my work is thought work, but yet I just rush past it and just start meeting with people. I'm like, okay, zero entry being like a zero entry pool, like a beach pool. There are days you got to jump in. I can make space for some days where I'm working, but I'm making sure that I'm doing the thought work and strategic work that only I can do and that I'm present in it and can show up present to the things those days. So you're learning what fills you up and what you need to do. Like I've learned that too.

Like it can be as simple as I need like a 45 minute. That might sound long for some people, but if I can get up early and go for a walk and pray and not at first be listening to a podcast or something really good, which is my temptation, but just to sit with God, to unload, to tell him all the things I'm carrying, that fills me back up. Yeah. I was going to say, I think we underestimate what's something that God didn't underestimate. He made it one of the 10 commandments.

He made it one of the biggest. And Sabbath. And I know as a person of ministry, we preach it, we tell people, we quote it, you know, man wasn't made for Sabbath, Sabbath was made for man. And you just explain like, you know, a mini Sabbath, you know, waking up and taking a walk, but literally taking a day a week and saying, you know what? I'm going to rest. I just read about a very famous pastor went away with, with his wife for a couple months, left his phone, did not take it.

And I'm like, this dude has thousand emails a day. He goes, I left the phone. And everybody's like, no, you didn't come on. You're just over.

No, he did. I thought, how do you do that? That's a real Sabbath. Okay. We don't have much time. We have two more.

We're doing five signs. You're running on empty. You were talking about being full a minute ago. And I thought when your car is full, the gas tank needles on F you drive by gas stations. Why would you stop? You don't even look at them. But when you're near empty or you're in trouble, you're looking at every gas station I got to pull in.

And that's what made me think is when you're running on fumes, you start pulling into places you shouldn't to get something. I mean, sometimes it's food. It's like, I'm, it's like your personal discipline is just, I don't care anymore. I'm too tired. I want another burger. I'm going to eat the fries. I'm going to have a milkshake. Again, I'm just giving you all my vices, but it's like, I just, I'm too tired to work at this. I'm just going to fill up. And it could be temptation, sexual sin. It could be for men looking at something and women, but it could just be, I'm letting my guard down. I'm too tired. I'm not going to fight.

I'm just going to give in. Netflix on repeat binge watching a season or scrolling social media or what, you know, and then falling into the comparison trap. These things that we forget where some of these things lead, you know, that we go to as an escape. Is that what you meant by hiding? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Where are you triggered and where do you go to hide? That's a scary place to be. We hide and run to things that aren't bad things. Some are. Exactly.

But they're just idols, good things that we run to, to try to get something like God could give us, but it isn't God himself. Yeah. One sign for me oftentimes is if I'm, you know, not going to the Lord first or then not letting David in or, and I'm, sometimes I'm going to friends or family and like, you know, my sister and I'm unloading all this stuff on her and I'm like, yeah, I should probably share that with David.

You know, like, it can be running to other people, I think. So that's a sign. Yeah, I think that can be a sign.

It's a healthy thing for you to be sharing with your sister. It's starting to log up and you're going, I'm not sharing much of this with David. That's, that's a sign.

Let's do one more real quick. Here we go. What about affection pulling away? Like you start pulling your, your affection and be there, not being there ends up being a sign you're pulling away from people. It's kind of like a telltale sign.

Yeah, this is true. Okay. So when we go to bed at night, I do sleep on my side. That's like facing away from David most of the time, but I don't usually turn over to that side, like away from him until we're like going to sleep. You know, he always falls asleep before me, but because of that, because he always falls asleep first, if he notices that I'm already like facing away, it's a sign.

It is. It's like I'm withholding some affection just by turning over, you know, and he's like, and that was something we actually realized a couple of years ago. And you know, he's, so now anytime I'm on the side, he's like, are you on your other side?

Give me a little gage check. But I think what you're saying is just in general, like when we don't, when we aren't as affectionate with each other, you know, when there aren't a longer kiss or holding hands or, you know, just some of those just general, they can be physical. They don't have to be physical, but just ways that we show each other in just simple ways.

Hey, I care about you. And when those things are missing in an ongoing way, I think that's a sign. I think this would be a really good conversation with your spouse. What are the signs? What happens to you when you feel like we're pulling apart and we're not as healthy as we should be? What do you do?

Because some of Dave's I may not know. And it's helpful, like if he turned on his side for me to say, it looks like you're turning away from me, what's happening? I love that, Anne. I have to say, switch sides of the bed. Sleep over here, Maggie.

You'll always be turning toward him. That's hilarious. I love that idea, Anne, of doing that when you're not in the middle of the conflict. And that's, what an incredible conversation. You know, it can be a date night conversation. It can just be, hey, let's go outside and chat for 30 minutes or take a walk and bring up that question. And maybe they don't have answers in that moment, but like, hey, let's circle back to that and talk about what are those signs that we have that when we're running on fumes, this is what comes out.

That's very true. I just have to say, because even the turning away from you thing, when you first asked me that, in the moment, I was like, no, no, I'm fine. But later when we talked about it, I mean, I was totally, I mean, I was lying, let's be honest.

But when you circled back to it, it was like, okay, yeah, that was, you know, I was feeling distant. I will end with this. Every marriage, every marriage needs a break, a time to get away.

Time to rest. Go to a weekend to remember. We're just saying that because we're here at Family Life, and I'm telling you, it is life to your marriage. It's work in some ways, but it's really getting away, getting sitters for the kids going away, or, and take a vacation.

I mean, and demanded that in our marriage. We're going on vacations. And I'm like, I don't want to spend the money, and it's some of the best money I've ever spent. It doesn't even have to be that expensive, but get away.

You've got to plug into each other in your marriage. So do it. I hope to see it a week and remember somewhere.

I'm Shelby Abbott. You've been listening to Dave and Anne Wilson with David and Meg Robbins on Family Life Today. And yes, there are so many weekend to remember marriage getaways that are happening all over the country this spring. In fact, I want to ask you to pray for the Weekend to Remember events that are happening this weekend between now and Sunday. Two of them are happening, one in Albuquerque and one in Napa.

So with over 40 events happening across the country, there's still time to find a location near you. And if you're wondering, where can I find out when it's happening and where, you can go to weekendtoremember.com, scroll around and find a location near you and book a time to intentionally work on your marriage together as a couple, just as Dave said. Now, a lot of people look at their marriage and they think it's fine and some people kind of feel stuck or maybe that they're running on empty or maybe they just don't feel like they're close with their spouse the way that they want to be. Well, a lot of that has to do with intentionality, being intentional in developing a better relationship with your spouse.

Now, we know many couples who may have been in your shoes if that's you and who struggled with grieving a loved one, reconciliation, anger, maybe a hard diagnosis and a ton of other things. They're speakers, preachers and everyday couples that make up the all-new art of marriage from family life. This marriage study really helps you to grow deeper together as a couple, grow closer to God and more connected with your community. It gives space for authentic and vulnerable conversations around challenging marriage topics like the ones I just mentioned. So, throughout six 25-minute sessions, Art of Marriage unpacks six biblical words that describe God's love for us and how each can be displayed through our messy, imperfect marriages. So, I encourage you to go to the show notes or to artofmarriage.com to learn more and grab your leader kit today. We're really excited to share the all-new art of marriage with you and hear your marriage impact stories. Now, coming up next week, Rachel Faulkner Brown is here with her 16-year-old daughter Campbell to talk about her courageous journey with battling anorexia. That's coming up next week. We hope you'll join us. On behalf of David Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.