My Marriage Needs Help: JD & Veronica Greear

Just in the New Testament, whether you're a single or whether you're married with kids or whether you're, you know, a retired couple, the Christian life is to be done in community.

I mean, all the one another passages. It's not like an optional benefit that comes along with the Christian life. It is an essential part of what it means to be healthy. You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today. So we got a full studio today. I like it when we have a full studio. You do? You like that? Yeah, we've got, how many of us?

Five. We got the Greers back. J.D.

and Veronica are back for day three. And we got Brian Goins in the house with Married with Benefits and does so many things, including the art of marriage. The new art of marriage. Reimagined? Reimagined. That's a better way to do it. We said that you're not going to replace a classic.

You don't replace the classic, you know. So the Greers are in the new art of marriage and we're in it. Yeah, I mean, it's been super fun.

My job for the last two years has been to invade people's homes and ask them super invasive questions about their marriage. And you're really good at that. I've learned that it's a latent skill that I've had. You got a gift.

It's a spiritual gift. I don't know that they would say that, but it was great being able to have couples like you guys, like the Wilsons, the Greers. You guys were some of the first people that we got to interview in this and we really had no idea what we were doing. It was a fishing expedition. It showed.

Yeah, I could tell. And we would ask questions for hours. And it took us a little while before we came up. What's the overarching way to organize the art of marriage? It's like, it's another series on marriage. What are you going to talk about? Like, you're still going to talk about conflicts. You're still going to talk about intimacy.

But what's the hook? What's the thing that's going to tie it all well together? And Dave, I think you and I were talking about this. It took us a little while before we realized it's going to be organized around this whole concept of if God is an artist and he created marriage, every artist wants to display something through their art. And so what is it that he wants to display in marriage? And that's when we developed this whole thing about these six words that describe the characteristics of how God loves us. And if we love one another like God loves us, then not only is he revealed, but our marriage is actually moved towards oneness.

We actually get what we wanted when we got married, and that is to experience oneness and experience unity with God. And so that's when we built the whole thing of the six words. You actually said that in the foyer of that house that you filmed us in after we shot.

You go, you know, we're thinking of playing around with like six words. I remember it was an idea at that time. And now that I've seen it, it's a beautiful format.

It's brilliant, really. So we had a great team of people, three Hebrew words, three Greek words, and just talking about God's love towards us. What would that look like in a marriage? How would it look like if we showed his hesed love, which is his covenantal love? How about his agape love, that sacrificial selfless love, the luo, the forgiveness, the letting things go towards one another? We talk about the debak and about how God clings to us through the highs and lows of life, just like we're to cling to each other, cleave to one another. And we talk about the yada, how God yadas us.

He knows us intimately. That's Hebrew for knowing and sexual intimacy. And what would that picture look like in a marriage? It's not just about sex, the physical act, but it's truly about knowing the good and the bad about each other and still accepting each other completely.

And then we talk about the last one is ouangelion. So, you know, if we really live that out with each other, we become the mission of God, that our marriage actually can be on mission. That's part of the point is that he really wanted his art to be displayed to a watching world of when they look at a marriage, that's actually what the gospel should look like. Now, unfortunately, we're not perfect, right? And so we have messy masterpieces at best for God, and yet he works through that.

He works through broken marriages to bring people back to him. So that's really what they are. You got the art of marriage right there. That's all that's fantastic sessions. Aren't you excited to be in now?

I was like, wow. Yeah. So you got it. And so we hope that the summit will use it. You guys are featured in it.

I feel like I'm being asked to commit here on air. That's right. That's right. That's why we do this.

Yeah, we did it with J.P. as well, Jonathan Pekluta. So it really is neat to have so many people that were willing to be honest. Like, that's one thing I really loved about you guys, especially, is that you were willing to lead with vulnerability. And you were able to share things about your marriage that shows, man, we're just as real and messed up as everybody else. But when we apply God's teachings to one another, it's amazing how when we allow him to work through us, what he can do in our marriage. And so even the last couple episodes, just hearing you guys talk about how that transformation of when we recognize that we're sinners first rather than being sent against, that's powerful. In fact, we should have gotten that line in art of marriage, which we didn't. Too late?

Yeah, it's too late. It was really good. Well, as you said, Brian, the last couple of days, we've been talking really about J.D. 's book, Essential Christianity, which is supplying the gospel. The book is really to life, but we've been sort of zeroing in our marriage.

You've been listening. What do you want to talk about? Or ask about?

All kinds of stuff. I bet. Like one thing I really want you guys to recount, because we do talk about this already, you've got to tell the Wilsons the honeymoon story. And just realizing, this whole thing about realizing that I'm going to be living with somebody. You said it yesterday, Veronica, about it's usually a change project that I'm signing up for when it comes to marriage.

And you wanted to change J.D. like right away. Yes, like right off the bat. Do you know the honeymoon story? No. Oh, it's great. I'm not telling it.

You're telling it. Do we want to know about their honeymoon? There's two infamous stories from our honeymoon, and I'm going to tell the book one. But it's basically that I took 14 books on our honeymoon. He also had to do his dissertation, what, oral exam?

Three hour oral exam three days after we got back. One of us thought this was bad timing. One of us thought it was- She's pointing at herself right now.

Why warm up for a game that you're never going to play? Someone said that. I don't remember which of us.

I mean, I feel like it was true at the time. I took 14 and read nine. We were gone for six days. I had a lot of guacamole in the hot tub by myself.

It was fine. Like you're sitting on the beach probably or something. Read a book. Yeah, and she'd go to sleep and I'd pull out the book and read it. Yeah. Do you tell this story? Is this a story in the art of marriage?

Yes, it's in the art of marriage. I was a bit flabbergasted. I guess. This was not what I had known I was signing up for. I should have known I was signing up for it, but I didn't. And so I was a little- It also points to change because now you talk about how you like overseas JD. I do. It's my favorite JD.

I get it once a year maybe. It's a totally different vibe. I don't care what we're doing today. Where do you want to go? He's like, what do you guys want to do today? I'm good.

Whatever you want to do. That's how he wakes up every day overseas. It's great.

And you get that once a year. That's so funny because you guys were talking about how it's like you realize like JD, you love things scheduled out and you even thought- In 15 minute increments preferred, preferably. Yeah. I mean, of course. So play that out because you're recognizing now I'm married to this person. Yes. Forever and ever.

Amen. Forever and ever and I'm going to debauch to this person. I'm going to cling to this person.

And so how do I now then adjust or demand change? Because I mean, you either go one or the other way. You kind of give in. I think that's where most couples are.

It's like, I'm seeing this and now do I just give in or do I try to change them? Yeah. How do we go from there? So it was a two to three year journey of both of us stuck. Right. Like I'm going to do it this way. And you were pretty mad that I was this way and I was pretty mad you were that way. Right.

So you both saw the other person as wrong. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then so after that, probably the healthier version of it is there was some mutual influence because I mean, it is like, I mean, so there is a value to a schedule. We understand that.

You know, you have one today. Right. But there's also a freedom that that allows you to enjoy the moment, allows you to respond to things and that creates space for relationships.

Yeah. And so I think there's been some mutual. But there's also still in there some genuine difference that then creates places for deference. I will sometimes joke that I don't, you know, call our vacations vacation anymore with kids.

I call them family trips because I used to come home so mad from vacations. But it means that we go in with this expectation of like, I'm not really even Jesus said he came not to be served, but to serve. And that should affect the follower of Jesus, even when they're going on vacation with their spouse. There's a dimension of which, like, I'm really here to serve her.

And how can I do that? And she is doing it back for me. And it's a little bit of the gift of the magic. After a couple of days of no schedule, he's like really unpleasant to be with. So we should go ahead and get a plan. And now you had to say it negative. You could have said, so I'm trying to be unscheduled. So sorry.

And then she will very overtly defer to like, OK, how would you like today to go? I want him to be happy. Yeah, I want you to be happy.

Yeah. And that's just a much better place than me guarding my little fiefdom and her guarding her little fiefdom. When I was thinking about you, you had your favorite passage, Romans 12.1.

Well, I like Romans 12.10. That we should outdo one another in showing honor. And I just think, man, how many more of our marriages would bring life if it was instead of in order for me to be happy in this marriage, you actually need to show honor to me versus just waking up in the day and going, how do I outdo my wife today and showing honor?

And which isn't easy, right? And it's easier to do it some days than others. And when you are in like a really sort of a spot where you're really mad or really angry, I think that's where you go back and this is true, not just in marriage, this is true in other relationships as well. Like quite often I'll have to remember that it's going to make me really sad to stand before God one day and recognize how unforgiving I was towards that person, whether it's my husband or another relationship. And so if you just think about standing there before God and being like, you know, standing there proud of how you're feeling towards that person, I just know I'm never going to be proud of any of that. And so then I'm like, Lord, help me here. Like, I don't really want to be forgiving, but I know that that it's an embarrassment to what I know and understand that you've done for me that I feel that way.

Can you help me? One of the challenges, Ryan, that I've given our church, I do it periodically, is I will say for an entire week here, if you have a spouse, I want you just to ask them the question at least once a day. And in every dimension of your relationship, how can I serve you? Just how can I serve you?

And just by the way, some of those dimensions are more fun than than others. You know, if both spouses are acting. But, you know, just getting this mindset of like, how could I serve her tonight when I came? As opposed to coming home being like, I've been working all day. It's time for you to serve me.

But just how can I serve you? It's a discipline. Do it for a week and just watch the differences it makes in your relationship. And when you let go of that, I mean, you guys have experienced that, Dave and Ann. You guys have experienced that sense of I can either choose to cling tightly to my expectations about you, or I could actually let go of that and go, okay, Lord, how can I be that kind of service to my spouse, right?

It occurs to me as I'm sitting here, I'm sitting at a table with two pastor couples that are over significant, have been over significant churches, you guys up in Michigan, you guys now at Summit. And I would be remiss if I didn't ask you guys both a question of what are some of the most difficult things of being married in positions of high visibility? Because even though most people can't relate to that, I mean, we can't relate to that, but there's been plenty of people that would say that it's like, yeah, but maybe I'm married to somebody who's got a high significant business, significant influence to others. But what have been the challenges for you guys that you guys have been dealing with in being a high visible couple?

I mean, the first thing that comes to mind, I'd be curious what you have to say, is how there's two temptations or one is more of something you just suffer through. And that is there's nothing that's really private that everybody doesn't have opinions on. Our kids, I mean, that's kind of cliche, but our kids are always dealing with what it means to be in the shadow and the expectations there. And you really say like, I'm trying to present to you that I'm a normal person, but you keep treating me like a not normal person.

I'm trying to say that we're the same and I'm the shepherd, yes, but I'm still a sheep. But there are people that just, you know, whether it's the words you say. The nature of being up on the stage or something. How you interact, I mean, just everything is amplified. And we've had to really create relationships that are like, I can't be pastor first to you.

I've just got to be friend. I'm going to have to articulate that in those circles, in those couple of relationships. Like, I need you to understand in this situation, that's not the first hat I'm wearing here. Yeah, that'd be the one that we feel like we suffer through.

And I say suffer in air quotes because I know on the scale of suffering that's not a bad one. But the other one is one that I see a lot of pastors, and I feel myself, you know, pulled to make this mistake. And that is that you get so focused in your ambition. Because, you know, if you're going to pastor or plan a large church, there's a little bit of drive there. You get so focused on building the congregation and the high, the adrenaline rush that comes from success, whether it's success of a great sermon or, you know, attendance high or something like that, that you think that happiness is found by the size of the stage or the scope of the influence. One of the things that Veronica has been a gift to me through our marriage is she loves and thrives on the small.

And she has often said to me, she's like, fame is making yourself accessible to a bunch of people you don't really care about at the expense of those that you do. And the quality of our life is not going to be determined by the size of the stage you're on. It's going to be determined by the depth and the quality of the relationships that we have. And so why would we ever sacrifice those in order to get to this bigger stage? God didn't create anybody, not even extroverts like me and Dave that enjoy standing up and you in front of lots of people. God created us for the community, the small. And many pastors will ignore that community for the sake of the large.

And they'll justify it as in like, oh, I've got to I've got to focus on this. And it ends up leading to their destruction because, you know, like this, like David Pallason, the Christian counselor, used to say, things that grow in a secret garden always grow mutant. And when pastors begin to live secret lives, just because they're not nobody really knows them anymore. That's when things were mutant in their in their marriages and in their hearts. And I think that's true, whether you're a pastor of a large church or whether you're just couple working every day going doing what you're doing, being mommy. Like, if we don't allow that somebody to know what's really happening inside, we'll always move towards distortion. That's right.

Always isolation always moves us towards distortion. Yeah. Actually, I think Crawford said that in order to marriage. So what about you? What about you guys, Wilson? I mean, what have you learned being in that high visibility and making sure that you still can move towards each other and feel like you have that oneness? I mean, I don't know what you thought first. My first thought is captured in a story that I won't go into because we've shared here many times. But it's when Ann said to me late at night on Sunday night, when I'm exhausted after five sermons or whatever, but she literally just made a comment as we're crawling into bed. I wish the man that led our church lived here. You've heard that. And I wish I would have said, that's a great comment.

I need to hear it. I literally blew up and said, I know the husbands in this church. They're all second best to me.

You're married to the best husband. I know these men. Anyway, it was the temptation was I lead strong in the public arena. Like she literally said, because I did say, what do you mean?

She's like, I just said, like, man, I watch you on the stage. You pray, you lead, you cast a vision. Everybody in the room wants to follow where Jesus is taking us. And then you come home and you're like, yeah, you just pray because you're tired. And so it feels like we get the leftovers. And I think people in ministry or not in ministry can feel like that of just getting the leftovers. And you can become really resentful. So again, I'm not saying everybody's experienced that. I experienced that.

I felt like I'd be driving home and I'm exhausted. And I know inside I got to bring my best. And I'd be like, come on. And she's a great leader.

So she most of the time go, I got it. And I just, I heard a guy say not too long ago, you want to be loved by the people who know you the best. Not those that don't know you. And I thought it's easy for the congregation to love you and your own family or close friends. Like, I don't, you're not, you know, and it's like, you want the opposite.

But in the public arena, it's great. JD said, man, you're looking at numbers. You're like, we just hit 10,000. Wow. And at the end of the day, you're like, I have a buddy who's in ministry now.

He's younger. And almost every time I talk to him, he throws a number at me. Hey man, we had this many this weekend. I go, dude, it's not about that. Oh yeah, it is. You did it. I go, I know.

And I'm telling you, those are great. And their adrenaline rushes, it's deeper than that. This is what matters. So I don't know if that's an answer, but it is for me. I think just even hearing that, and we talk about this a little bit with The Art of Marriage, is just the idea of not giving your spouse the leftovers. And how have you guys looked to do that when, whether you're a ministry of a great church, whether you've got a great business, whether you're just working every day and you're spending 10, 12 hours a day working. And couples here, it's like, we want to move towards oneness, but yet you feel just tired. So in our culture where busyness is the currency, how have you guys worked or maybe mistakes that you've made to not give your spouse the leftovers? What rhythms have you created? I mean, everybody kind of makes fun of the cliche of date night. But there's purpose in setting aside a calendar and saying, we're going to put attention toward this. There's two things that come to my mind, and they have happened fairly recently.

One of which I've told you about, one of which I haven't. We're slow learners on everything. It's kind of rich we're sitting here. 23 years in, we're just figuring some things out.

So one of them was, this is about to get real serious real quick. So my mother passed away last year, and I had the privilege of being with my dad sitting beside as she went into eternity. And watching the tenderness and the, I mean, just genuine affection between the two of them, the realization I had there is, that's not something that you just manufacture on the last day.

That's a lifetime of patience and tenderness. And you're the person that I want to be with me in pain. You're the one that I understand.

You're the one who believes in me most. This is who I want to be with in that last hour. And I thought, am I living right now in a way that makes that moment natural if God gives us that? Where it's like, well, listen, I'm not here because I have to be. This is what it was.

That was one. The other one is the realization that, I mean, I've got good buddy friends, and we go out and we hang out and we talk, you know. But there is one person I realize that I will process most things with for the rest of my life.

Friends, as close as they are, seasons of life change. But most likely there'll be one person that I'm processing this with, and that's a relationship that I have to foster and build. So we're intentional about reading a lot of the same books together, you know, because it's like, well, we need to be able to discuss this. You know, if appropriate, I will blind copy her in a lot of emails just because I want her to know what's happening in these relationships because when we get home, she's like, wow, you know, that was a tough situation you were in. Here's where you handled it well.

Here's where you didn't. And I'm constantly trying to populate our conversations with things we have in common. What you hear is that people get, after their kids leave, they end up getting divorced because they have nothing in common. And it's, you know, so I'm like, well, what do we have outside of our kids that I am fostering so that we have this lifelong best friendship that ultimately ends if God, you know, sees fit, one of us sitting by the bedside of the other one and just saying, I've been your best friend for 50 years and I'll be your best friend in this last hour. Oof, that's good.

That'll preach. I'd say we've done a lot of those same things. I think Dave and I are best friends for sure. We're always interacting. And when our kids were little, we would just, even it was 10 minutes, like, give me everything.

Like, I'm interested in what he's doing, what he's thinking, and it's vice versa. So that was big. I think it also helped a couple things. One, we prayed. We still pray together. You talk about intimacy and like we're locking arms, we're partners, we're doing this journey and following Jesus together.

And then here's just a little tidbit that I think is helpful. Have a good vacation on your calendar. Something to look forward to with each other. Not, I mean, you're going to have your kids trip, but this is just the two of you. We're like, oh, I can't wait. Because it just, it's like, it's us.

You know, you have your kids, but there's something, like, we want to be together because we enjoy each other's company. Yeah, sometimes it's not very long. Could be a couple days. Yeah, absolutely. Those are all great. Those are all really good suggestions.

And the prayer one for me, I know for 23 out of my 27 years, Jen would say the number one thing on her prayer list would have been that her husband would pray with her. And I hate that it took me so many years to get over my own insecurity before that became more of a rhythm in our life. Still probably don't do it perfectly.

I don't think any of these things do. You're tempting. You're always like taking a few steps forward and some back. But I think for many of us, it's like our problem isn't that we're stupid or we don't know what to do.

We're just stubborn. We let everything else get in the way. Well, as you guys, both of you being on Art of Marriage, why is it so crucial, whether it's Art of Marriage or any kind of a resource, why do you guys believe so wholeheartedly in community being something to help your marriages grow? The Christian life, just in the New Testament, whether you're a single or whether you're married with kids or whether you're a retired couple, the Christian life is to be done in community. All the one another passages, it's not like an optional benefit that comes along with the Christian life.

It is an essential part of what it means to be healthy. And in our very atomized world where technology and even the way we build our houses and the way we live our lives, it's designed with this polar kind of like, if you've got anything, it's just the nuclear family. And really not even that, within the nuclear family, everybody's going their opposite ways. It takes a countercultural decision that we are going to foster and build community. You know, churches, that's one of the reasons that, I mean, even for all the things the evangelical church does wrong, there's a lot of beautiful things about it. The emphasis on small groups and fellowship, multi-generational stuff.

Those things take investment and time. One of the things our kids kind of understand, maybe they do, maybe they don't, is kind of this commitment we have. I'm like, we are going to everything the church does not because I'm the pastor, but we're going because this is our community. And I want you to be family here and a visitor in all these other places, as opposed to being family on your soccer team or family even at your school and a visitor at church. That's good. And you show up and you put time into it so that it is.

Yeah, that's why we're doing this, that's why we're going to this. We'd do it if he worked at, I don't know, whatever, a law firm or something. It has nothing to do with what he is. Yeah, definitely.

He could be a lawyer. But you're saying it doesn't just happen. You've put time and energy and priority into that. It's good. Yeah, and I mean, we all know this, but that has to be on the calendar.

You have to be intentional. We have, they're listening right now, Rob and Michelle are listening right now, two of our best friends, they lived a block from us in Michigan. And they kept talking, now their kids are growing, you know, we're going to move south.

You know, my job, I can do it anywhere. I think we're going to go to land or something, where two of his daughters are. No, you're not. You're not leaving Michigan.

I'm not kidding, dude. One day, I'm on a group text with seven guys that were on this thing and Rob's one of them. He sends us a text, hey, who wants to buy my snowblower? And we're all like, why are you getting rid of your snowblower? Oh, our house is up for sale, we're moving.

We're like, we find out you're moving by a text about your snowblower. Not okay. And they did.

No, we've done this before. We love them, but it was hard to lose such great friends because we've done life together. And all I'm saying is every couple, you're listening, you don't have that couple, you got to find them. They're there. God's got them around you.

You probably know their names. Take it to the next level and say, let's make this something that sharpens both of us because you're not going to make it to 43 years of marriage without people in your life. You have to invite them in too. I was going to say, we just started by having dinner together as a family once a week. That's right. And then that's exactly actually how our same situation kind of started that way.

It was actually started once a month and then went from there. I also think, and you have to make it clear, I'm inviting you to speak into this. And you might have to remind them sometimes.

Yeah. And yourself. And yourself. You have a narrative you believe about yourself that's very light and bright and positive. Rosy.

Rosy. And you can dismiss what God has actually given your spouse to do in your life because, well, they don't know what they're talking about. You know, whatever. And they're always like that. Or he's always that. Or his expectation. Or this or that. But other people, you're sometimes, hopefully, often a little more likely to hear. Maybe not initially.

Right. But I think your mind is a little more quick to hear it from those people you've invited in and told them as opposed to your spouse sometimes. If you do this, and this is where it's easy to listen to a radio show like this. I mean, that's a good idea.

I should have dinner with this couple. If you actually begin to achieve community, it gets messy and hard. Because people are messed up and so are you. And so we all do better when we're a good safe distance is what John Ortberg used to call the porcupine's dilemma. How does the lonely porcupine get love?

Because every time he gets close, he ends up having, you know, quill sticking. And we have had that. You kind of have this. There's a honeymoon stage.

We're all best friends. And then the messiness of people's lives. And if you're not anchored in grace and ready to commit to it, it's kind of like people, you know, they always talk about our kids, oh, they're so awesome and polite.

I'm like, you have no idea. You know, if you live with them, it's the same thing as like our friends. We've seen the side of them that nobody else gets to see. And they've seen the side of us.

And there has to be a choice that the community that we get through this is worth the messiness and the awkwardness and the difficulty of loving another sinful couple just like they love us. Yeah. I mean, some of the best moments of my life were when these guys spoke hard things. You've heard the adage, if someone says you're a, I'll say donkey, you know, disregard it. If your wife says you're a donkey, consider it, if three or four guys say you're a donkey, get a saddle.

Yeah. It's true. Because when they're speaking that, it's like, guess what? I can deny it all I want. These are my brothers. They love me.

They told me this is going to make me better if I accept it and say, okay, let's go. That's the gospel. God still loves me, but we got to change. Yeah.

Go get the saddle. Well, if the essence of Christianity is truly the grace of the gospel, it should not surprise us that we're going to, we're going to irritate each other. We're going to cause each other pain. We're going to see our sin. And if everything has been smooth sailing with every relationship you've had, you probably aren't being real with them, you know?

And so if you're not uncomfortable in community, then you're probably not experiencing community. And I'll add this, Brian, I would really encourage you. If you don't have that couple in your lives right now, pray. Start asking God and start looking and asking God, who is my couple? And here's an idea. Because they're there.

Get the art of marriage. There you go. There's the place. There you go.

Invite a few couples over. I'm not kidding. I mean, this could be like a promotion. Because it gives you something. You have that third thing. Yeah.

You need it. Because that's part of the problem. I don't even know what to talk about. Right. I don't know what questions to ask. I don't even know. So give yourself that. Take all that pressure off.

Yeah. These could end up being lifelong friends. I'm Shelby Abbott, and you've been listening to David Ann Wilson with JD and Veronica Greer, along with Brian Goins on Family Life Today. So really, as Dave and Brian were talking about, head over to artofmarriage.com or find the link in the show notes to pick up a leader kit. It's all reimagined, and we're excited to see how God is going to use the brand new art of marriage.

You know, we've been really excited to have JD and Veronica Greer with us for the last three days. And JD has written a book called Essential Christianity, The Heart of the Gospel in Ten Words. It's basically, what is Christianity? And it kind of gives an introduction to the Christian beliefs and Christian meaning to help bridge the gap between biblical context and the challenges faced by modern individuals today. You can go online to pick up a copy at familylifetoday.com, or you could click on the Today's Resources link in the show notes.

Or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329 to pick up a copy. Again, that number is 800, F as in Family, L as in Life, and then the word Today. Now, when you're on familylifetoday.com, we'd love it if you'd go to the top of the page and click on that Donate Now button. When that happens, you can give a gift to help the ministry of family life. You can either give a one-time gift, or you could become a monthly partner with us. And the benefit of being a partner is not only that you get to give to this ministry and see God work through the ministry of family life, but you also get insider ministry updates about new products, pre-releases, and exclusive viewing opportunities.

You get invitation-only events with unique opportunities to hear insider information about what God's doing through your partnership, and special communications from family life leadership, plus a lot more, including you get a free Weekend to Remember gift card whenever you become a monthly partner with this ministry. So again, head over to familylifetoday.com and click on the Donate Now button at the top of the page to become a monthly partner. Now coming up tomorrow, the president of family life, David Robbins, is going to be joining Dave and Anne, along with Meg Robbins, to talk about the profound purpose of marriage on mission. That's tomorrow. We hope you'll join us. On behalf of Dave and Anne Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.