Grandparenting Teens? Don’t Let Go: Mark Gregston and Larry Fowler

I don't share my opinion unless I'm asked. I think that's the role that, as Larry said, that a lot of grandparents get in.

It's like, I've just got to share my opinion. They don't want your opinion. What they want is perspective.

They want to know how do you see this and see it differently in light of what they've been taught, applying it to a world that is out of control in one sense. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.

You can find us at familylifetoday.com or on the Family Life app. This is Family Life Today. Talk about grandparenting for another day, maybe another couple days.

Yeah, this is going to be fun. I mean, we have a lot of listeners who are grandparents, and I think we underestimate the power of what God wants to do in us, but especially through us in the lives of our families and our grandkids. And I think when we become empty nesters, we can think we're done. And there is a segment before our kids might have their own kids.

But man, I feel like in a lot of ways, it's just beginning or can just beginning with our grandkids, and we can have an impact. So this is going to be fun to continue this conversation. Yeah, we got Mark Gregson and Larry Fowler back in the studio. Welcome back for day two, guys.

Good to be here. Mark, I don't know when this came out. You wrote a book called Grandparenting Teens Leaving a Legacy of Hope. How long did this come out?

A couple of years ago. It came out in one form under another title that worked well, but then... The subtitle was the title, Living a Legacy of Hope? Yeah, Leaving a Legacy of Hope. And then somebody said, to market it better, you need to change the name.

It'd be a little bit more direct. I don't think there... Are there any books in the Christian realm on grandparenting teens? No. Larry, you would know. Larry knows.

There are not. Yeah, so I mean, and I think that's the time that teens need their grandparents the most. I don't believe that God's keeping us all around. You know, hop in an RV, drive to Arizona and play shuffleboard the rest of our life. I mean, that's not... Pickleball. Pickleball now. That's right.

Pickleball. But I want, you know, I think he's keeping us around because he knows this generation needs the wisdom and the insight and even the tradition to be passed on to that next generation. Because parents are struggling through so many things. And Larry said it before, and I've heard him say it at other times, that a grandparent isn't just a parent on steroids. It is a different role, and it's a role that kids welcome. I mean, I have probably never been as loved by kids as I am now. And I've turned colors. I mean, he's got a mustache.

I know it's from 1880, you know, and I know I'm outdated and my hairstyle is one of like a billion years ago. But it's amazing to me how kids want to spend more time with me now than when I was a youth pastor or a young life leader. That's really true. And it's because they're wanting something that their generation is not offering one another in relationship. But it's also the challenge with parents to say, Mom, Dad, your kids are wanting something different than just more information.

They're desperate for wisdom because they're drowning in information. And that's where the world's changed so much. And I think I think grandparents, if you gather wisdom by observation, reflection and experience, then grandparents have that role and they have a story to tell. And that's what needs to be passed on to their grandkids. That's their legacy. They're not going to be remembered past their grandkids, you know, unless you're some serial killer or rock star. I mean, that's the only way you're going to be remembered. But pretty much everybody else gets forgotten about. And so but what a what a greater way to make an impact on somebody else's life and the destiny of your family than as a grandparent to pour your life into a grandchild that can carry that on to their kids and to their family.

I mean, it just keeps going and going and going. But it happens with a grandparent's involvement. And we talked yesterday about how our grandkids as teens can pull away from us, just like our kids did as teens.

They can start pulling away. So we talked about we need to also be pursuing them. And we also talked about it's not our job to be training or disciplining them. Larry, like talk about that a little bit more of what is our job then as grandparents? So let me let me go to the negative first. What our job is not is to share our opinions with them nonstop.

In fact, if there's any way to drive away a teenager is to do that. They want a relationship with us. They want us to listen to them. One of the one of the questions we need to be asking our teenage grandkids all the time is, is help me understand.

Well, it's not a question, but, you know, help me understand. Maybe it's about their culture. Maybe it's about their view of culture. And we know that their world's different from ours.

But it's about a relationship, understanding and doesn't mean compromising truth. But but we're not we're we don't need to just blast them with our political opinions. Yes. And so forth.

We will drive them away. Yeah. Mark, as I was reading this, I over and over you keep saying, ask questions, ask questions and love unconditionally. Yep. Yeah. I mean, I think you have to. I mean, it's asking questions. I don't share my opinion unless I'm asked.

I mean, I think that's the role that, as Larry said, that a lot of grandparents get in. It's like, I've just got to share my opinion. They don't want your opinion. You know, opinions are like armpits that, you know, everybody has two of them and they both stink.

And I mean, nobody wants those things. What they want is perspective. They want to know how do you see this and see it differently in light of what they've been taught, applying it to a world that that is out of control in one sense. And I'm not an anti-world kind of guy, but I also know that 82 percent of kids are leaving the church upon graduation from high school and they take a hiatus and they don't come back and they're 29 or 30.

Yeah. And so during that time, I'm going, they make there's some pretty big life decisions there, who they're going to marry, whether they're going to have kids, how they're going to spend the rest of life, where they're going to live. And I want to be involved in that. And so there's a part of it that that I mean, you see in scripture over and over again that that there's a place for a grandparent. But I remember what Paul said when he said, remember when he wrote to the Corinthians, remember how I was with you, how I was with you. And so I look at my grandkids and I go, I want that.

I want it to be not a teaching time. I mean, they get enough of that in other places. Yeah. And that's what their parents do.

That's right. I want to offer something that they can get nowhere else. And that's that's my life is a reflection of God's presence and allow the word to become flesh and dwell among them to to offer them a viewpoint when they ask to give them perspective of life and to give them a great sense of hope that you can get to the other side of this. And there's always going to be challenges.

Let me share a time where I blew it. I grew up on a cattle ranch and at Thanksgiving a few years ago, my oldest grandson, they came out to visit us for Thanksgiving and he announced to us that he was a vegan. Now, what do you think a cattle rancher thinks of a vegan? Right.

Yes. Is he a teenager at this time or how old? He was about nine, maybe early 20s, early 20s, just turned 20.

I'd love to be there. I didn't say anything. So Diane, being the gracious, loving grandma, she accommodated his new diet and I didn't say anything. And then in January, I got a call from my daughter. She said, Dad, I called to tell you Tyler's really angry at you.

And I thought, what did I do? She said, well, do you remember at Thanksgiving when he told you that he was vegan? I said, I didn't say anything. She says, well, your body language did. And I was sharing my opinion through my body language. I wasn't with my words, but through my body language. And I deeply offended my grandson. Did you?

And I love that grandson. What do you wish you would have said? Well, so here's what I did. I don't I in the moment, I don't know, because I was I was wrestling with my grandson turning vegan. But I thought, I don't I am so sorry, I didn't mean to offend him. So I thought, OK, I want I want him to really know I'm sincere. So I decided I was going to go on a vegan diet myself. So for two weeks, I tried a vegan that about killed me, Mark. Did you tell him any of this? Well, my my son in law, his dad told him that grandpa was going on the vegan. He got word of it and I got a call from me. He said, Grandpa, I hear you've been doing a vegan diet.

Yeah. And I said, Tyler, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to I didn't mean to offend you. And he said, well, grandpa, you're forgiven. And he says, you don't need to go do the vegan diet. It's OK. Yeah, you had a steak that night hamburgers best hamburger I ever ate.

But but you know what? If I hadn't restored the relationship, if I hadn't been willing to say I'm sorry for when I blew it by getting by sharing opinion too quickly, I wouldn't have been able to maintain that relationship. There are grandparents that are listening. The need to ask forgiveness for being too opinionated and leading with that rather than leading with the relationship.

Yeah. Larry, when you said that, I started to tear up because saying I'm sorry is not done in a marriage and parenting. And especially now, as you're saying, as a as a grandparent, we don't do it. We don't own up our sin. And I'm I'm guessing we don't have teenage grandkids yet, but I'm guessing that's a big way to pursue a relationship with your grandkids is to own your sin, own your mistakes and speak it out and reach out to them.

Right. We had a grandmother listening to a webinar we have on Legacy Coalition called Grand Monday Nights. And she was really impressed with the truth of leading with grace and not just putting out her own truth in the form of opinions. She told her story. She had a daughter that had been estranged for 20 years. The daughter had walked away from the family, had gone through detachment counseling where the counselor actually teaches them how to detach from family. And she had not had any contact with this daughter for 20 years. And she began to realize that that came because she was too pushing opinions too hard. And she was able to get contact through. And the very first thing that she said to her granddaughter, to her adult daughter was, I want to ask for your forgiveness for for speaking my mind too much. And it was the start. It opened the door to reconciliation. And now that grandma's 82 years old, she's restored her relationship with her daughter and the family unit where there was no hope. That's been restored now. It's just blessed our hearts to hear that story.

But that's what happens when you begin to exhibit grace rather than lead. Yeah. Mark, I was reading I don't know what chapter in your book about you, your son saying I'd rather live somewhere else. Yeah. Why not? Because you're such a clean freak? Well, yeah.

Which is good. My wife is the same way. She loves clean. I'm obsessive compulsive. I can pretty much ruin any relationship.

And if you'd straighten up the books on the table, it'd make you feel a whole lot better. But I mean, it really is. I mean, I am just wired that way.

I see things other people don't see and I can run a relationship. And so you begin to realize that, you know, that it's not about me. It really is about me pre-teens. Once they become teens, it's not about me anymore. It's not what I want.

It's what they need desperately. And for some reason, my son trashed out his room and it just drove me nuts because I thought you're being disrespectful. All these different things. And he got to the point because I would just hound him out. I didn't walk into his room for three years. And what I realized was is that I've got to give him some space and let him, you know, figure it out on his own. And so I'm not one of those guys that says make your bed and all that stuff.

I don't care about that stuff because what they're dealing with is so much other stuff. I want to be a place that relieves some of the tension they feel from the culture. That'd be the first thing I would tell parents is you've got to provide a place of rest.

When Jesus said come to me, all who are weary and heavy laden, and you will find rest for your soul. That's what a home needs to be. And I was not creating that.

And when he said I'd rather live someplace else, you know what my first thought was? Well, the house would be a lot cleaner if you would. But it just shows my own selfishness. And so, you know, I spent a lot of time encouraging parents to say, hey, there's something that you need to know about our family. And I want to make sure that I tell you, hey, there's something that you're going to hear about. And I don't want you to hear about it after I'm gone. Or a grandparent that says, you know, I haven't done everything right.

And I want you to know that I've done some things wrong. Until you say you're sorry, you ask forgiveness until you say you're wrong. You will never hear those words out of a child or a grandchild.

You know, I mean, you will never hear them. And you are the example, you're the living example of biblical principles being lived out before your kids. There's no better, words don't even compare where the scripture says that let us not only love in words, but let us love in action indeed. That's what they need is a living example of somebody that's fleshing out, struggling through their relationship, and trying to apply those things that we embrace to a world that's a little bit crazy and let them know that it's a struggle. As a matter of fact, it's going to be a struggle, you know, until we get to the other side of life.

It's always going to be a struggle. Yeah, and you guys know there's something that happens in the soul of the other person when somebody confesses or apologizes or says, I'm sorry. You know, we talk about this in our marriage stuff. It reignites your passion even in your marriage when your husband or your wife says, my bad, and I really hurt you, and here's what I did specifically that I said or did that hurt you, I'm owning that and I'm sorry. They're drawn to you. I mean, you don't do it for that reason. But if that works in a marriage, same thing's happening to your teenage grandson or granddaughter, right?

They are drawn. Maybe their mom and dad's not even doing that. So they feel like, I don't want to go to mom and dad, but I feel safe with grandpa or grandma because they've been humble enough to say, I'm sorry how I responded when you said you were going to be a vegan. I mean, all the big decisions a grandkid's making in his life, that one's not that big a deal. Not that big of a deal.

Even according to scripture, right? Exactly. Yeah. You know, I mean, I'm a Texan.

You know, I would have thrown him a piece of broccoli and gone, okay, great, who cares? You know, let him live their life. But I mean, you're from a cattle ranch, you know, and I think there's so many times, and grandparents figured this out eventually, that we are so consumed with ourself and what we want that somewhere there's a switch that you begin to realize it's what they want. And I don't know whether that's because you get toward the fourth quarter of life and you begin to look at life differently. But it's not about me anymore. It's now about what do I pass on?

How do I engage the relationship? How can I leave a legacy? How can I do this well at the end rather than having them live up to me? Because if I'm creating the world that they have to live up to me, they'll be gone in a heartbeat. They will leave and say, you know what, that's the world I live in. I don't want to live in that kind of world.

I want somebody that's looking out after me. And I find the minute that I say I was wrong in what I said the other day, the immediate response from kids that I get, from parents that I get, when I've said things, they come back and say this, no, I want you to know that I didn't respond well. I mean, it's like this. It's instant that you open the door and they walk through it.

And it's those words that are so hard to say. I'm sorry, will you forgive me? Or for men, I was wrong.

Because men are never wrong. Are they? Of course not.

I've never been. I don't know. Well, it's the whole gentle answer turns away wrath. As soon as you go low, people are drawn back to you. Well, here's my question to you guys.

How do you make that shift? Because, Mark, you're saying it's not about me anymore. And again, I know there's some grandparents that I felt it in my own soul. You know, we're empty nesters now, the house is clean. You know, it's all picked up.

It's never chaos anymore. It's the way we want it. And then the grandkids come in. And ours are younger.

Yeah. But it's chaos and it's loud and they bring their puppy. And you're worried about him peeing on your, you know, your good carpet that's all, you know, vacuumed. Again, maybe it's just me, but there's a part of me that's like... No, I don't feel that. I'm surprised that you feel it. Because I used to feel it when they were young and you're feeling it more now. Yeah, I mean, I've dealt with it, but it's in there. You know, and when they leave, I'm like, huh.

And you became a radio host? Are you serious? But I'm just saying, I know it's a shift you have to make in your mind.

Because it isn't. It's like, who's thinking cares about the carpet? Yeah. Really. You've got your grandkids in your house. Oh, my goodness. I never even knew my grandparents.

You know, I was from two alcoholic parents in divorce. And now I get to change the legacy. And there they are. And so the shift has got to be made. But I know there are grandparents listening right now that are like, I still like my house clean and my privacy more than this. There's a shift in mentally that you've got to make to say this is more important. You've made the shift.

How do you make it? Think about what you just said. You said, grandparents say, I still want. That's the starting point for me, is what do you want? Yeah. You have to decide what you want. And the phrase that just burns in my soul is, I want my grandkids in heaven with me.

Yes. I want them in heaven with me. And everything else is secondary to that. And so when that becomes my driving passion, then it helps me to figure out which things are less important, which are more important. That's good. As we talk about legacy, take us into Deuteronomy. We started going there the other day because, I mean, this is for us is a life verse that you're going to share and talk about.

Yeah. The verse that really moved my wife and I literally moved us because we were living in Chicago. We moved to California to be obedient to this verse. Deuteronomy 4, 9. Moses is speaking to the children of Israel right before they enter the promised land and before he dies. And he says, teach your children and your children's children. That's a command to both parents and grandparents.

And so as a grandparent, I need to fulfill that. Well, we know they conquered the land and Joshua dies a number of years later. And right away in the book of Judges, we find out that it didn't continue. And we have that very frustrating verse that says another generation grew up that did not know the Lord and other things. What he had done.

What in the world happened? And then we know just mess up after mess up in the nation of Israel. And several centuries later, David's now king. And his chief musician, Asaph, writes some Psalms. One of the Psalms is Psalm 78. And Psalm 78, it's like Asaph read that passage in Judges and he says, I don't know what went wrong, but I'm going to fix it. Because he says, we're going to remember the things and we're going to pass them on to future generations. But you know what he records in Psalm 78? He records all the failures of the children of Israel. He mentions the miracles and the victories, but then he says, but then they just walk away.

They disobey again. You know, that's the gist of it. And it's interesting that that vulnerability over even the history of Israel is an important lesson for us to follow. We were talking yesterday about being vulnerable.

Mark was talking about that. And that's a biblical way to approach our history is to bring out the stuff, the messy stuff. And just talk and put it out there so that we can learn and future generations can learn from it. Now, is that the kind of stuff you cover at the summit?

And tell our listeners again when that is. Yeah, the summit is at the third weekend in October. The Grandparenting Summit. The Legacy Grandparenting Summit. It's a national conference live in Dallas, Texas, but streamed to 150 sites across North America. And you can find a site probably to attend near you. Mark is one of our speakers, and if you've appreciated his wisdom as you've listened, just know that there's a whole bunch more, just like Mark, that are going to be on the stage.

He will be one, but there'll be others that are sharing some absolutely amazing insights that'll blow you away. You guys, help us as we're kind of finishing up. There's a lot of grandparents that have teens that the relationship is broken. You know, the kids have drifted away because they're busy and the grandparent feels rejected, like, I guess they're busy. They don't want or need me anymore. How, after hearing this, maybe they're thinking, no, I want that.

How could they go about restoring that? What would you say, Mark? Well, today's the day. You know, I think you just look at it and say, today's the day. Now is the time to call them, to text them, to get a hold of them, and just say, I just want you to know that I've blown it. You know, I think that's a hard, hard thing, and people get there as a result of trauma in their life. When you lose friends or you lose something. I mean, I lost a home in a tornado, you know, and when you have lost everything, it changes your perspective on life.

You know, and for an obsessive compulsive guy like me, you know, you begin to realize you take none of it with you, so it really doesn't matter. But I think it changes the way you engage when you see loss all over the place, and you take that and you say, I need to share something with you. I've missed your heart. I haven't done what I've needed to do. I haven't been the parent that I feel like I've needed to be. I feel like I haven't been the grandparent. I'd like to be involved in your life. And it's not so that I can start sharing all my insight and all my wisdom and all that.

It's because I love them dearly. And this is a challenge for people that live apart from their grandkids. You've got to figure that out and say, maybe it's a couple of trips.

Maybe it's taking them where they want to go. Maybe it's spending some of your money, you know, because you take none of it with you and, you know, just spend the money and enjoy, you know, the fruits of life, if you will, with your grandkids so they have those experiences. If wisdom is transferred, observation, reflection, and experiences, I want to create experiences as long as I can.

You know, go make some memories before you lose yours. You know, I mean, it's, you know, it's, you may not remember it eventually, but they will. And I think it's doing things in such a way that your child knows that with a humble heart and a sense of gratitude and a sense of either loss or a sense that I've done something wrong, that creates an atmosphere that people will move towards you.

And I think you begin to see that value, especially as you're losing people on one end, you're trying to gain those relationships with your kiddos. Yeah, I was just sitting there thinking, Mark, when you were talking, I don't know what you thought, but I remember, I don't know what year when the cell phone came out and texting became our means of communication. Ann's dad, who really became my dad because I didn't really have a relationship with my dad.

So when I married Ann, Dick became my dad and he was my high school baseball coach. So anyway, I remember him coming to me in our kitchen. And at that point, I don't know how old he was, but his fingers were starting to shake a little bit when he would try to do stuff. And he says, hey, teach me how to text. He just pulls his phone out. And I mean, again, this is a much newer version of a phone, but he's like, I need to learn how to text. It's back when we had flip phones and they were really hard to text.

He had to hit the eight three times to get to the whatever. And I'm like, Dick, no, you don't, it's okay. You don't need to text. He goes, I'm not texting you. I'm texting your kids.

I need to be able to communicate with the grandkids. Now we're talking 12 grandsons. Yeah. I'm glad that you talked about that because my dad, he wasn't strong. Like he became a believer late in his life. And he had 12 grandsons, no granddaughters. And he passed away two years ago at 92. And every grandson and their wives were all at his funeral. And Dave officiated and he had every single grandson come up and talk about my dad. And every single one had so many stories because he pursued them. He texts them almost every day. And he would write them letters. I remember all our boys, they gathered all the letters that he had written to them before they got married, going into school, going into college. And he would always, this is the part that he did. I'm like, oh, this was so good that he did this. Every single note would say, this is what I see in you. This is the greatness that you have. These are, it's really identity.

This is, and I can't wait to see what you do as a man. And when each of those grandsons got out to talk about him, they ranged from the age of 40 to the age of 30. He had, I can't even remember 30 some great grandkids. And that was a legacy because he pursued and pursued and pursued. Yeah, that's a grandpa that's made an impact. How cool is that?

It's so cool. And he wasn't the greatest dad, but he was an amazing grandfather. Now mulligans, for those of you who don't know golf language, mulligans are second chances, a do-over, so to speak. So whether or not you need a mulligan, move toward grandparenting with intentionality. Such great wisdom and encouragement today.

I'm Shelby Abbott and you've been listening to Dave and Anne Wilson with Mark Gregsten and Larry Fowler on Family Life Today. You know, Mark has written a book called Grandparenting Teens, Leaving a Legacy of Hope. Leaving a legacy, that's the opportunity to grab that mulligan.

That's really what it is. Passing that wisdom along to the next generation. You could pick up a copy of Mark Gregsten's book, Grandparenting Teens, at familylifetoday.com.

Or you could give us a call and request your copy at 800-358-6329. That's 800, F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. You know, grandparenting is one of those things that, you don't know how to do it until you start to go through it. Well, the Legacy Coalition Grandparenting Summit can help you as you're moving into grandparenting or if you've been a grandparent for a long time.

It's happening from October 19th to the 20th in Dallas, Texas, or you can actually attend the summit online. The link will be in our show notes at familylifetoday.com if you want to find out more information about the Grandparenting Summit. Now, coming up next week, Willie and Corey Robertson are going to be joining Dave and Ann Wilson. You might recognize those names because their story is going to be featured in an upcoming movie called The Blind, which tells the backstory of Willie's parents, their journey of love, redemption, and faith. They'll also discuss the impact of their TV show, Duck Dynasty. That's coming up next week. On behalf of Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. .