Dealing with Debilitating Anxiety: Jeremiah Johnston

This morning we had a devotional with our team here at Family Life, the audio team, and you missed it because you forgot your iPad, had to run back home. It never happens. Ann can do no wrong in my eyes, Dave.

You know, she didn't do anything wrong. I have never forgotten it, actually. Then my shoe broke.

I've slept past my alarm. So I need what we're going to talk about today. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com or on the Family Life app. This is Family Life Today. The reason I'm telling you this, it was phenomenal.

Jeremiah Johnson did it, and he's sitting in the studio with us. Jeremiah, welcome back to Family Life Today. It's so great to be here. It's like coming home. We love having you. We don't even care what you talk about.

Just come be with us. Yeah, but I mean, you're an apologist, you're a scholar, christianthinkers.com? Yep, christianthinkers.com. That's right. You know why I've never been there? Because I'm not a Christian thinker. Yes, you are. Are you kidding?

No, it's great stuff. And we've talked about a lot of things with you over really several years. But as you talked about anxiety today in your own life, but also, you know, the peace of God that you've experienced, I just thought share with us and our listeners what you talked about today.

Well, thank you. And it was an honor. My prayer this morning waking up was that I could minister to the amazing team. And we just need to thank God for the amazing staff of Family Life that make these broadcasts so not only full of quality and excellence, but I mean, it hits a pulse where people are at. That's why this ministry has been around for 40 years.

That's why people need to keep supporting it because you all have this great ability to hit the pulse of where families are, where marriages are today. You have real talk. You don't hide away from things that we do need to discuss. And I was asked as a guest. Yeah, I just got to say, thanks for that plug.

Yeah, that was amazing. No, it's why I'm so delighted to be here. And I was honored. You probably know this, but there are listeners that do financially support this ministry. And that's why we're here.

Absolutely. So when you said that, it's like there's people that believe in us so much, they say, I want to write a check every month. And we should. And because the resources and the content and the way that you all presented is so greatly, it's done with such excellence and it makes such an impact. Last night in my hotel room, I was messaging a family that I baptized recently saying, hey, you got to check out the parenting and family materials at Family Life. And we're like, oh yes, I will. This is amazing.

This is exactly what we need. And so this morning I was asked by Jim to give the devotion. And I like to share what God's doing in my heart right now. And I had a moment recently, there was a press release that went out from the world's largest publisher that they had partnered with me to produce a Bible edition called The Peace of God Bible by Thomas Nelson Harper Collins.

Everybody's like, I'm buying that. The peace of God. But my wife and I were sitting there over coffee. We didn't say a lot and we just started weeping because I am the last guy that should write The Peace of God Bible at one time in my life.

I would have thought I would have been the last guy to write it because even though I'm in full-time ministry, even though my marriage is awesome, through an interesting series of unrelated events, I began to realize I was struggling with debilitating anxiety. And I have a high capacity. I work eight days a week. I haven't slept in six years since the triplets were born. First name basis with the guy at Costco buying 700 diapers a month at one time. You have five kids. I have a high capacity. You know what I mean?

Yeah, five children, travel and speak. I'm not a wuss. I'm not weak. But at the same time, I found myself wracked with so much anxiety. I was in an airport lounge like the United Club and I had a panic attack. And I had never had one of those in my life. And I never want to have one again.

And I'm being very transparent because I think I can be vulnerable on this show. Did you know it was a panic attack? No, I thought I was dying. What was going on? I had so much anxiety and I didn't know how to manage the anxiety and uncertainties of my life. What were your symptoms of a panic attack? I was coming home from a great ministry. I felt like I was having a heart attack, couldn't breathe, had to sit down, worried I was going to die. You know, went catastrophic thinking and it was all related not to physical challenges, but to anxiety. And this was coming off an incredible minute.

I mean, everything outward looks great. You know, I was speaking at a church, flying home, you know, doing my thing, blowing, blow up, blow out for Jesus and going home to the next thing. And it was a miracle I got home that night. And Audrey, my amazing wife said, Jeremiah, I think it's time that we talk to someone. And I think this is the first time I've ever said this on media, but I went to a Christian psychologist. You mean, Jeremiah, you have a Ph.D. in New Testament. You're an expert in the resurrection. You've written 14 books. You're a dad. You've been married 20 years and you had to go to a Christian psychologist.

Shame me all you want. Yes, I did. And it literally transformed my life. When you are going through anxiety, you believe a lot of lies. You believe lies that you're a second-rate Christian because a real Christian would never struggle with this like you. Maybe you're not even a Christian at all because you're so depressed. Maybe there's something wrong with you. And I became paralyzed by these thoughts. And I have a mind that already won't quit. But at the same time, not being able to grab, crush, and kill every one of these intrusive thoughts was starting to debilitate me. And I remember Audrey taking me to a book signing and literally propping me up. I mean, I did not want to be there.

I just couldn't function. And that's also what led me to write my book, Unleashing Peace. If I didn't write a book on anything, or for anyone, I wrote it for me on the peace of God. I was so tired of the bumper sticker fortune cookie theology that promised me peace but didn't tell me the immediate next steps to get there. And I wanted to get there. Okay, you tell me that I can live in the peace of God. How do I get there? And stop telling me it's a feeling.

Tell me how to live in the discipline. And for me, it had to be true and it utterly transformed my life. So a few things happened. I'm sorry for the long answer. No, that's good. How long ago was that? This was, it started five years ago. So right after the triplets were born. And the beautiful thing about my wife- That'll bring some anxiety.

Yeah, it will. But you would have never known it though. Really?

Go back to my social media at that time and you think I'm just living the life and I am dying on the inside. And thank God for Christian psychologists. Thank God for Christian counselors. If you feel called to ministry today, the field you should go into is biblical counseling, Christian counseling, because you will have a job the rest of your life. I can say this now, there is a waiting list. The average wait is eight months right now to get into any therapist, Christian or not.

For child psychologists, it's up to a year. And as a church, we need to step up and say, hey, we need more Christian counselors. We need more biblical counselors. We're an anxious culture. We are. We're a fragile culture. There's a fragility and a lack of resilience to our culture that we need to know how to have better coping skills. We need tools and skills to help us cope. And I now ask my friends, who are the people in your life that help you deal and manage with the uncertainties, anxiety and depression you face? You asked that to your friends. Yes.

Really? And you'd be surprised by some of the answers I received. Most of my friends don't have anyone helping them manage the uncertainty, the anxiety and the depression in their life.

And they wait too long to go talk to someone. And so for the first time in my life, I'm admitting on a national radio show, I went to a Christian psychologist and God used that lady to transform my life. She helped me understand that I'm not people's saviors. Jesus is. And you know that. I know that, but why did I feel bad when I would go back to my hotel room and I, you know, that person's going to live on a 30-second comment I made. Did I do it right?

Did I do it enough? Jesus is their savior. And, you know, I'm just a pot with cracks in it. I'm a jar of clay God's using at this time in His sovereignty. And she helped me develop the steps to live in freedom. And that's why I think on another broadcast with you all, we talked a little bit about my peace plan.

Yeah. Why did I develop a peace plan? I had to. I was dying on the inside. The peace plan was for me. And I had to start living in the discipline of God's peace, His shalom. And so fast forward five years, I learned to live in freedom. And there was a time if you would have given me this cliché, it would have made me want to get up and walk out of the room. Jeremiah, someday this pain is going to become your purpose.

Oh, yeah. We all hate that in the moment. And I didn't want to hear that. Don't give me that Christian stuff. Don't give me that, you're going to minister. I don't want, I will never minister in this. I want to forget this and this be in the rear-view mirror of my life. Be sort of a secret.

Nobody's going to hear about it. And I had some great mentors, like my friend Robert Morgan, who's like a pastor to me, wrote Red Sea Rules. I'd call him.

We'd cry together on the phone. And Jeremiah, just take the next logical step of faith. Just keep taking the next step of faith.

The God who led you in will lead you out. I mean, I lived on these truths that I brought to my life and to my marriage, but I had a wife that didn't shame me. She said, yeah, I can't be your psychologist. I'm not one. I'm your wife.

I love you. And I will listen to you all day long, but you need to talk to a psychologist. I went to one you have to pay for. I mean, legit, like, hey, you know, I'm one of your patients. And here I am traveling the country speaking as a thought leader. And do I have somebody helping me manage my stress, anxiety, and uncertainty?

You better believe it. It changed my life. So now I stand in front of audiences. I'm living in the peace of God for my life. I'm living in that tranquility that's described in 1 Chronicles 22, 9, Shekat.

I'm living in Shalom. And it has changed the countenance and complexion of our whole family. It doesn't mean we don't have challenges.

I mean, the wheels come off once a week with five kids. We have the skills and the tools now that help us approach it. And here's some of the truths that somebody needs to hear today. Anxiety is not dangerous.

I wish I could have told myself in that Cleveland Airport United Club, it's not dangerous. Well, it feels petrifying. It does. And when our kids are struggling with it, then it feels even worse because we have no control whatsoever.

That's right. Anxiety is not sin. I had to deal with a lot of bad teaching that I grew up with in certain circles that anxiety was always sin. It's like you're not trusting God. Why don't you believe more? Anxiety is not sin.

Here it is. Anxiety is suffering. So, we have to figure out how to live in that suffering and how to manage it.

And then we can develop skills and tools that will lead us into freedom, not perfection, freedom. And so, my pain became my purpose and it led to God's peace in my life. And now I'm writing the peace of God Bible, y'all. So, I've lived in it. And that's why we cried.

It took a long way to come back to that. Audrey and I live in the peace of God perpetually. And we've seen God's peace be evident in our life.

And now I have the opportunity to guide readers by the hand through the scripture and pull out. There are 600 passages in the Bible on Shalom on the peace of God. And I wish I could do 600 devotions on every single one because it is God's will for you to live in His peace today. It is God's will for you to not live in a truce.

It's His will for you to live in Shalom, which is completeness, wholeness, lacking nothing, even when we face adversity. So, we had Jen Wilkin on the program and she was incredible. And she really described rest from God's perspective and how it affects anxiety and even those around us in a real beautiful way. When we think about the Sabbath principle in our current day and age, so often we equate Sabbath with the notion of self-care. Oh, this is big.

Yes. And so, I'm not here to dog on self-care, although it needs to be dogged on a little bit, but we'll save that for another time. When it comes to thinking about a practice of Sabbath, if you look at the way the command is worded, it says that not only will you rest, but every person, animal, whatever that labors on your behalf will also rest. When I read that, I remember thinking, I have never thought of that before. Well, and think about how incredible this command is because the gods of Egypt commanded labor without rest, and so will the gods of Canaan. But we serve a God who commands that we sit still. And that's just unbelievable.

Think how it would have landed on the ears of people who were coming out of 400 years of slavery. What we so often can forget is that we, too, chase after the pharaohs. We, too, want labor without rest. That's what our whole culture is telling us, that time is money. You've got to keep going.

You've got to keep grinding. And that if you do rest, for many of us, our only concept of rest is a rest in which others serve us while we are resting. But Sabbath rest requires nothing of anyone else for you to enjoy. Shalom and Shabbat, two interesting words in the Hebrew, to be at rest and to live in the peace of God. And I think Jen nails it here because as an act of worship to rest, think about that for a minute.

Worship that requires nothing but just setting in the goodness of God, trusting in His faithfulness. And when we project that kind of peace in Shalom, on Shabbat, what does that say to our family? What does it say to our kiddos? What does it say about our priorities? And we live in a world that people are working eight days a week.

There's so much noise. And this ability to enjoy the solitude, not thinking about ourselves, but focusing on the Lord, focusing on His goodness, focusing on the grace for today, that is what Shalom looks like. And I think this notion of Sabbath can be taken further even. I think, you know, they taught the Jubilee year every 70. And listen, Leviticus 25, the Jubilee year, Isaiah 61. That was a sign of the Messiah that you were going to have a year of Jubilee. So not just rest, but also celebration.

And so for me, what does that look like? That looks like short, frequent sabbaticals based on the Sabbath. You think about sabbatical, Sabbath, and they don't need to be in a far off, distant land. I can have short, frequent sabbaticals at my home where I live, where I just refocus on the Lord and refocus on His goodness, His faithfulness, His peace. And yes, it's going to affect everyone around me because I'm going to administer and live in renewal, and I'm not going to administer from an empty cup.

And that's the beauty of what Sabbath does for me, for my family, for those that we love. Let me ask you, it feels like we're hearing more about anxiety than we ever have. It feels like our kids, especially Gen Z, is being crushed by the weight of their anxiety.

Without a doubt. The numbers are sobering. And we have to help them know how to dialogue about it. And the first thing that you all do amazingly, not only here at Family Life, but in your speaking and ministry with marriages, is we have to break the stigma of anxiety. Stigma comes from the Greek word stigmatos.

It means like you feel branded or tattooed. You're like the new leper of the church. And you don't want to admit that because Christians don't gossip. We just share prayer requests. You don't want to be that guy that struggled with a personality problem or with an anxiety problem or blah, blah, blah, whatever it may be. We have to keep breaking that stigma, but then we do need to teach resilience to our kids. We need to teach resilience to ourselves. We need to live in the resilience that the Holy Spirit gives us. Every believer is a priest unto God. We have the Holy Spirit within us.

And so that resurrection power can renew us daily. But yeah, with Gen Z, this is a conversation that needs to happen. And I see that our kids, more than anything else, need better coping skills. How they deal with rejection in their life is going to determine their success. And we have to teach our kids to deal with rejection a little better. Now, how did you step into peace? You said earlier, like, I don't need bumper stickers, slogans about it.

I want to know how to access it. So as you were walking through sessions with your counselor, and I've done sessions as well, and man, light bulbs start going on. Thank you for sharing that. He just reached out yesterday to our counselor. Yeah, I literally texted my guy and said, I need some more help. And he's like, when, where, how?

Let's do it. And again, I think you're right. A lot of people think, you guys meet with people behind closed doors and talk about stuff that's really bringing a lack of peace in your life. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, Paul had an anxiety attack in 2 Corinthians 2. Is that what it was? He had no peace of mind at Troas. He left and was never going to come back. God brought him back to Troas. Then he raises someone from the dead in Troas.

Troas, which was his trigger, became his triumph. There's a sermon for you. And so, yeah, if Paul can have an anxiety attack like he did in 2 Corinthians 2, I can. And Paul, it took seven years.

And that's, so what did I do to answer your question? I studied all 576 passages. Oh, I just go study 576 passages. I just had to study it. And as I began to study, it wasn't a feeling.

It wasn't something that people worked up for. It was a discipline. They kept re-wrapping themselves every day in truth. No matter what they felt, our feelings will lie to us.

And they kept preaching truth to their hearts. Psalm 42 and 43, we did that in the devotion this morning. Hey, I believe it, but I don't feel it. I literally have it handwritten in this Bible that I have right here in the studios in Psalm 42 and 43, which was originally a single psalm. The Psalter keeps saying, you know, hey, I literally, I don't feel it. I don't see it. But three times, I believe it, even though I don't see it or feel it. Will you read part of that to us? Absolutely. This is, my tears have been my food day and night.

Anyone there? Well, all day long, people say to me, where's your God? I remember this as I pour out my heart, how I walk with many. This is Psalm 42, four, verse five. He begins to preach truth to his heart.

He doesn't listen to his heart, the cultural mantra, you know, just do what feels good. No, he says, why my soul are you so dejected? Why are you in so much turmoil? Put your hope in God, for I will still praise Him, my Savior, my great God. And he repeats this mantra to himself throughout it three times.

Same thing. Why are you downcast? Why are you so rejected? Regardless of how I feel, I know God will be faithful to me. That's what the Psalmist is saying. I feel really bad right now.

I'm on all kinds of emotional thin ice right now. And yet, again, verse five of Psalm 43 repeats the same thing, keeps it going. Why are you downcast?

Why are you dejected? Why are you in so much turmoil? Focus your hope on God. So, I see here, literally, the Psalmist is preaching to his own heart. And so, that's what I began to do. And, you know, praying the Psalms, I also learned we all pray way too religiously, you know.

What do you mean? I opened up the 56 verses of Habakkuk and studied Shalom and Habakkuk, which is going to be in my new Bible. And he literally begins a prayer, God, are you dead? And so, if a prophet can open a prayer that way, God, are you dead? And then he says, God, you give me an explanation. And he says, hey, if I gave you an explanation, you wouldn't believe it because things were about to get worse and Nebuchadnezzar was coming. And then God begins to give him a little explanation and he passes out. And he says, God, don't give me any more explanation. So, you know, I just see myself in Habakkuk and, Lord, I don't want to pray too religiously.

You already know. I'm not informing you when I pray, you know how messed up I feel right now. And so, I would encourage people that are listening, study the peace of God, live in his Shalom, make it a daily discipline. Just like you drink water, trying to hydrate more every day or diet or exercise, wrap yourselves every day in the truth of the peace of God. Have that peace plan for your life.

It's absolutely essential to game changer. Yeah, I know that, you know, this morning as you were sharing about the peace of God and anxiety, I thought, huh, we had an interesting conversation, Ann and I, last night about anxiety. Of course you're sharing this. No, I mean, I'm not going to get into it, but, you know, Ann's like, oh, great timing, honey. That's what she said to me at dinner. Great timing. It was a money conversation.

It was a fear, money, anxiety, stress, pressure. And so, again, just this morning, your words, even at Solomon, you know, his name comes out of Shalom, which I had never heard, and I'm a Bible scholar. Yeah, this floored me, so again, just working on my devotions for the peace of God Bible, doing my thing, and I come across 1 Chronicles 22, 9, the only place this word is used for Shalom in the whole Bible. 22, 9, David has promised, a son will be born to you, he will be a man of rest. I will give him rest from all his surrounding enemies, for his name will be Solomon, or Shalomo, Shalom, Shalomo, Solomon, and I will give him peace and quiet and to all Israel during his reign. And so here's Solomon who becomes not only a person of tranquility, that's how I talk about it in the devotion, the best way to translate this is he will be a man of tranquility. And his tranquility brought peace and rest to all Israel. And so that's why Jesus said, blessed are the peacemakers, they're going to see God. I need to be an agent of tranquility and not conflict in my environment. And this is where, again, I have to push back from the desk like you guys probably have when you're writing and say, Lord, you're working on me first before I write another sentence in this book. I need to be more like Shalomo, Solomon.

I need to be an agent of peace to my community because, man, if I'm living in the peace of God and exemplifying it in my life, my kids are going to be more at peace, more at rest. Yeah, and one of the things that hit me this morning when you shared that was, you know, we're walking in this anxiety, this fear, and we think the answer is certainty. Right.

If I can just know for sure this is what the future looks like, here's where the money's coming from, whatever it is. And you made a really important point that I've said before but I need to hear now today was, you know, faith is not certainty, doubt is not—explain that a little bit because we don't need certainty, we need faith. I'm a certaintyaholic.

Yeah. You know, I'm a researcher. I need to have certainty about things, but we just will never have certainty. And so faith does not equal certainty. According to the Scriptures, faith equals trusting God through the uncertainty.

I want to say that again. According to the Bible, faith does not equal certainty, otherwise it wouldn't be faith. Faith equals trusting God through the uncertainty. My faith is not what I feel, my faith is what I believe.

Anytime I get out on emotionally thin ice, I remind myself of the truth that I believe because it doesn't matter what I feel, it matters what I believe. What brings you anxiety? Like for Dave, I've known since we've been married, it's money.

It's maybe because we've been in ministry all these years, but it's—and if he's not certain about it, then he's anxious. What brings you— Right now, my children. You know, if anything with my kids right now gets my—I mean, it can change my whole day. And so just wanting to make sure I'm present for my children.

That's why these phones are—they just take us out of the moment so much. And I try to do intentional things. My daughter Lily travels with me a lot, and we just have great experiences.

I want her to meet people like you all over the country and see how vast the body of Christ is. But I'm like a lot of people listening, my kids, more than anything. That's mine, too.

Bring me anxiety. I'm constantly evaluating. You know, I think I need to be God's chief of staff. You know, I need to give God pointers and helps along the way and help him know how to help my kids better. And so just trusting the Lord, allowing my kids to make mistakes, though, and build resiliency, too, is a big one for me. Have you shared that with your kids? Do you think, parents, it's OK to share the things or have a conversation about, these are the things that make me wake up at night and not be able to go back to sleep? We have very open dialogue in our home because, you know, even Justin will come down some— and some of us have a genetic predisposition for worrying anxiety. J.P. Moreland, you're a great professor, does.

I probably do. A lot of us, I mean, this is a genetic thing. It's a brain dysfunction at some level. And so, man, that's why every day we have to remind ourselves of scriptures. It's Romans 12, 1 and 2.

We can rewire our brain, neuroplasticity. I know we're covering a lot with the scriptures. And yes, I do talk about it with the kiddos because I want them to know they can— I'm going to be the guy to help you manage your anxiety, stress, and uncertainty. So I want to encourage you, how would you answer that question? I hope family life is one of the ministries that helps you manage your stress, uncertainty, and anxiety because we need each other. I notice that everyone in the Bible who lives in peace, they do it in community. Nobody finds the shalom of God alone. Yeah, that's good. When we're alone, we're like Elijah. We want God to kill us.

So Solomon brought peace to everyone. It was in community. I remember Ann's heard me share this before, but I was having back surgery— boy, it's been 15 years now— and I did what you should never do.

I went on YouTube and watched one, and I'm like, what in the world? I mean, it's a hardware store with hammers. That's a trigger. I should have never done it. So I'm laying there in bed. I'm the first surgeon in the morning.

It's going to be 6 a.m. or whatever, and I am gripped with anxiety. And the Bible's right there, and I just open it up, and here's what I read, Psalm 34. I sought the Lord, and He answered me. He delivered me from all my fears. Those who look to Him are radiant, and their faces shall never be ashamed. This poor man cried, and the Lord heard him and saved him out of all of his trouble. The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him and delivers them. Oh, taste and see that the Lord is good.

Blessed is the man who takes refuge in Him. And again, I had preached that before. I've walked through that psalm word for word for our congregation, and in that moment—and again, it wasn't certainty. It was just like, that's where— Yes, you still had to go do the surgery. But it was a good reminder of, OK, I can freak out, or I can go, you know what?

There's one. Because God's got me. And no matter what, I know God's got me. And I love the power of God's word.

Yes. I love that you wrote this Bible. Honestly, because I have found, too, that— It's not out yet, Ann. I know, but it's coming out, but I think as I'm in the Word every day, it's not because I'm so spiritual that I'm going to do this for Jesus. It's because I'm desperate, and I need Him, and His Word and His presence calms my soul. And then it can bring tranquility to me, which then, like Solomon, it creates this tranquility in the house. Not always, because I can be crazy.

You're getting teary even talking about it. That is the power of God's word. And I'll leave you with this. I've now studied the frequency of shalom, and it's amazing who uses the word the most in the Bible.

And it's not the people you would expect. The great thinkers of the Scriptures, like Isaiah and Jeremiah, who really struggled, used the word shalom the most. The psalmist used the word shalom the most.

So you might be facing a lot today. You're in good company, because those guys were effective, and yet they relied on the peace of God. You know, I love what Ann said there about not necessarily going to the Scriptures to do my duty and meet with God and check off a box, but going to God's word because I'm desperate. You know, one of the things I've learned from a mentor of mine is to pray this every day. And I do pray this every morning as soon as I'm conscious.

I'm a person, God, of incredible need. Would you bring your avenues of grace into my life to help me in my need? And may I be humble enough to accept those avenues of grace when they come along. You know, God's word is one of those avenues. So I ask Him every day to help me in His word. Let's run to God's word in humble desperation because we are people in need.

What a great posture to be in. I'm Shelby Abbott, and you've been listening to Jeremiah Johnston with David Ann Wilson on Family Life Today. You know, Jeremiah has written a book called Unleashing Peace, and who doesn't need to do that in their life right now? You can find a copy of his book at familylifetoday.com. You know, in times of desperation, the times that I feel it the most is the times of parenting because I found that God really helps to refine me when I'm dealing with my kids. And, you know, parents need help, and one of the ways that we want to help you at Family Life is to give you a couple of resources to help you in your parenting. All this month, when you become a partner with Family Life, you can unlock two fantastic gifts from our resource center. There's one that fosters character, relationships, and identity. It's a game called Ferret Flush. It helps you connect with your kids in a fun way to be able to instill in them those important characteristics that are really difficult to talk about with our kids sometimes without them tuning out.

And so this game helps them to focus on character, relationships, and identity in a fun and creative way. In addition to that, when you become a partner, we're going to give you access to the Art of Parenting online course. This is a video series with sessions that help deal with common obstacles in raising your children. So you can make your donation today at familylifetoday.com, or you can give us a call at 800-358-6329.

Again, that's 800, F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. And feel free to utilize traditional mail if you'd like by sending us your contribution to Family Life, 100 Lakehart Drive, Orlando, Florida, 32832. Now, if there's someone in your life who could benefit from today's conversation, we'd love it if you'd share this program on your favorite podcast platform. And while you're there, we'd love it if you'd leave us a review and help others discover Family Life Today. Now, tomorrow, David and Wilson are going to be joined by Ed Welch as he talks about the need for companionship and support in our daily struggles. On behalf of David and Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. ... Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.