The Marginless Marriage: Why Your Relationship Thrives with more Time

There is this secular rhythm of like, we're going to work, work, work, work, work, and then take a vacation and fuel up with all this time off and then work, work, work, work.

And yeah, we're going to have relaxing things we do on the weekend, but it just blurs. And God says, okay, no, I'm the one that made you. And I made you with finite limits.

And out of a practice of you saying, I am finite and God, you are not, I can give you everything to delight in the people and to delight in God around me. He invites us to Sabbath. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.

You can find us at familylifetoday.com or on the Family Life app. This is Family Life Today. So do you feel like I'm hurried when I drive? I knew you were just going to, you couldn't even answer. You just had to start laughing. It is like we're on a racetrack and in a race every single time our wheels hit the pavement. I don't know what it is about me.

What is that? Is that your internal engine? That's how fast it goes? I guess, but here's the blind spot. You're as bad or worse than I am. And you're laughing because I have told you that and you cannot see it, but you drive 80 miles an hour just like me sometimes.

No, mine is displayed in how fast I walk. That's true. I can't even run and keep up with you. And you know what? We need some help in this area.

We've got David and Meg Robbins. What is this area? Craziness? Hurriedness, fast-paced life, never taking a break. I mean, we landed at 1 a.m. last night. Here we are.

It's a little crazy. And we've got David and Meg Robbins in the studio. You're going to be our counselors today. Yeah, right. If only we weren't just as guilty.

Exactly. This is an area of need and why it's important we talk about it. Yeah, we need to talk about marriage and margin and rest. I mean, I know you guys are as busy or crazy and you've got kids in your home. We have nobody, not even a dog, just us. And we're just crazy busy. I remember when my parents were empty nesters, Dave and I would sit around, you know, with our kids and sports and we're like, what do they do all day?

We don't have anything to do. And now we're realizing, oh, there's a lot at this stage, too. But you guys are in with four kids. And you're the president of Family Life. I mean, your life's got to be crazy. Well, it is true, though. I look at you guys and I go, your life's just as crazy.

And it's filled with different things every stage. Newlyweds. I longed for the time that we had as newlyweds. But I look back at that season and I go, no, we were scraping and scrapping and grinding. Singles. Yeah, exactly. Dave, I'm hearing you talk about your speed and then, you know, revealing and speed. And I just go, Pete Scazzero talks about you can't go warp speed without warping your soul. Did you have to bring in truth? I'm only bringing in truth because I need to look in the mirror. I mean, that's the reality. You can't go warp speed without warping your soul. And I came across this quote after I've been doing some intentional reading after a 360 review as Family Life president, where I got the board and my fellow executive team members and people underneath me to do this 360 review on me, which I've initiated and I'm glad to have to keep getting a better view of God. So they sort of give you a view of yourself from all around. Right, exactly. What did you learn?

What did you hear? My main area is my lack of margin takes away the empathy that I end up engaging with Megan and our marriage, like it zaps a strength I have in my marriage and at work. And when I'm not having margin, I don't have time to bring the clarity to leadership that people enjoy when I bring it.

But one of the number one things is when I'm so hurried, so busy, I don't have it for it. And so as I began to process it, words like, how much do I spend time just skimming through life right now? And the word that really came up was I feel, when I was journaling, I feel muted. Like the colors of who I am in my life, when I am at my best walking with Jesus, bringing what I want to bring to my marriage and to work and ministry. Yeah, I'm pretty muted right now. And the colors are muted and it's because of the lack of margin. It's been something that's been front and center and it affects home life more than it does work life.

I was just going to ask about your home. I mean, Meg, have you seen this? Have you felt this? I mean, I know it goes both ways, but. Yeah, it definitely goes both ways because I think we both operate in this place right now where we're realizing, wow, we've got to figure out how do we get more margin? You know, just that extra space for the people we love for sure. But even people we don't know, people that we encounter different places in the grocery store, wherever, in the line, that I'm not thinking of the next thing and missing out on who's right around me. But yeah, I mean, I think we both feel it, whether it's the lack of time that we have.

You know, we love the idea of having regular dates, but that's not happening right now in this season as much as we would like for it to. But those are kind of the planned things, you know, but I think the margin that we're talking about is, you know, having space for the unplanned conversations, whether that's with our kids or with each other. I think we do feel it in our home and it's like you have to fight for that to create space, to have time in your day where you can say yes to someone who needs you in that moment. I think that's a great question, though, to even ask, like if all of us were asking ourselves what happens when you don't have margin in your life, like what stops? As David, you were saying you stop being empathetic. I wrote down, I stopped dreaming and I stopped seeing. Like I'm always dreaming of like, oh, it'd be so cool if we could do this new ministry or I don't know. New ministry, more work. But I also stopped seeing people and then I stopped saying things to people that God would want me to say.

What do you do, Meg? I think I stopped seeing people for sure. That's the first thing that came to my mind. And then I think I also stopped letting people see me, like what's in my heart. I have to have a little margin in my life in order to let people in, if that makes sense.

Yeah. I mean, that even for sure happens in our marriage. You know, I kind of closed the door of my heart a little bit. To David. Yeah, to David. Just because it takes time to open it and let him in and tell him the things that I'm processing or feeling.

And as an internal processor, it does take you time to actually process in order to let in. That's even where you started. You mentioned recently also, I thought this was a good little litmus test of how's my margin going in life of you being at a T-ball practice.

Oh, yeah. I was sitting on the bleachers. I came home and told David this because I was sitting there and there are like three moms around me who I don't know yet.

You know, it's kind of a new T-ball team. And I was realizing like normally I would sit down in that situation. I'd be so excited to get to know who are we on this team with and new relationships we might have. But I was just so drained and exhausted. Like I didn't even have the emotional energy to pursue them and ask questions and want to get to know people.

And I kind of sat there quietly for probably 30 minutes before I realized I'm not like the quiet person on the bench with people I don't know. And so it made me realize that part of the problem was my emotional tank was just on empty, you know. I totally relate to that. And I do that same thing like I'm so tired. Like I love this person next to me, but I have nothing. I can't even engage. Dave, what do you do besides drive fast?

I drive fast, which is really a symptom of I'm too hurried. It really is. And I should take a better look at that.

But I can remember standing in the front yard and seeing a neighbor start to walk toward our house and feeling like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I want to go in. I don't have time to talk to you. I'm just getting my mail.

Please don't. And that is so no margin. That's all that is. It's like I got things I got to do, things I got to call.

I should be able to go, this is why God put me in this cul-de-sac. I really believe that. You know, impact our corner of the world. Make a dent where you're sent. We pray for our neighbors. We want to have an impact on our neighbor. And here's my neighbor walking toward me.

And I'm feeling that's no margin. And the other thing I thought of, and I don't know if you guys have this, I feel like there's, you know, the thing I don't do is I don't see and I don't care. The thing I do is I have more anger. I'm quicker to trip. I'm quicker to harshness or, you know, come on, come on, you know, that kind of thing to a son or daughter, like, get over here.

Or even a grandchild who can't walk at barely one. And I'm like, hurry up. And you're like, what is wrong with my soul? I think your soul does get warped if you don't pay attention to it.

I love how you just point out it does affect the relationships that matter most to us. I just wrote down, typed up a few examples of when my life gets hurried. Here's a few things that happen. I can't shake the feeling of having too much to do with too little time. Here's another day where I'm going to end the day with not enough time. I routinely fire off quick opinions and judgments. And sometimes I can even come with anger. I become overly concerned with what others think a lot of times, especially of me. I'm always rushing.

I had someone go, David, you just kind of come into meetings spilling out. You're carrying your computer, your cord's dragging, your backpack, so on. I go, yeah, that's a sign of a hurried life.

Yes, okay, I need to own this. I'm routinely preoccupied or distracted. I think a life without margin ends up meaning we actually pour our time distracting ourselves with quick hits. And maybe we'll get into the phone a little bit later because it's such, it's the four-inch screen in our pocket that allows us to feel something when it just distracts us even more, even when we have good intentions. I consistently ignore the stress or anxiety or tightness in our bodies. We both actually have back things going on right now.

It could be that we did roller coasters with our kids. However, it's days later and it's like, boom. It's like, all right, what's our body telling us? And my last one is we end up spending more time or I spend more time talking than listening.

Others may shut down and actually not talk. And obviously for each one of us, what are those symptoms for you where hurry takes over? And we each have our unique, and maybe you guys will share some, but the verse that came over as I started listing these off was do the things you did at first. If our hurry is actually a disconnect of our union and connection and communion with Jesus, well, then what he says to the churches in Revelation of when we lose our first love is to go do the things you do at first, which seems so simple, yet a lot of times it is that simple. You know, it's interesting you bring that up because he also said, well, first he said repent and do the things. And I think there's the do the things part, but I think there's a come to Jesus moment to say, I've got to admit I'm living too fast and I got to repent of that. And I tell you what, it's hard to do.

Yeah. It's like, yeah, but I have this meeting and this I'm important person. It's like we got to get to a place where we're humble enough to go, you know what? The world is fine without me.

I do not have to be at all. It's like, am I going to repent and say, you know what? My health and even my soul is what these people need from me more than my hurriedness.

And if I don't slow down and take care of my soul, what I bring to these people that are the reason I'm hurried is not worth what I'm doing. Here's my confession. Oh boy, we get a confession. I blame everyone else for my hurriedness. I blame you, Dave. Like, look at our schedule.

Look what you've done to me. You know, we can blame our jobs. We can blame our kids sports as if I have no control. And so I will blame everybody else. And then I feel so out of control that I do want to go somewhere, David.

I just want to look at dog pictures and puppies on my phone. Which maybe that's better than other things. She does. She does. I look over and we're really fried and I'm like, what are you doing? She's looking at golden retrievers. Maybe we do need to get that dog.

Everybody needs a way to unwind, I guess. And that's better than other things I could be looking at. That's true.

That's true. Well, I will say this, because I want to get to, okay, what do we do? Because I'm sure a listener's like, okay, okay, I'm there.

Identify. They're like, hurry up, hurry up. But I also think when you talk about the phone or any other device, I think when you're really tired and you're really hurried, you can step into sin, too.

It's an easy fix. You find yourself looking at things, doing things, just to get some life back in your life. And that is, I just want to say to a listener, look at that.

That can lead you to a very bad, dark place that could impact your marriage. Trying to escape. Yeah, you're escaping your life. You need to step back, and we're going to talk now.

Let's say, what do we do? How do we slow down? Well, I mean, even before you get to that really dark place, I mean, even for me, it's true that a lot of times I think I have no margin and life is so crazy. But if I'm super honest and take a look at how I'm spending my time, I am running so fast and crazy that then I just feel like I need some time for me. But then I'm probably not using that time always in the best way. Maybe I've got something I'm watching on Netflix or I've gotten caught up in watching Reels on social media. And people hurting themselves. That's what makes this.

People falling down. It's terrible. Anyway, I mean, I've gotten where I've had to take Instagram, just take it off my phone because it's such an easy, quick go-to, but it doesn't really fill up my heart. You know, clearly I'm still in an emotional empty tank if I'm not talking to people around me. Yeah, let's go to two familiar places. We're on one, let's stay on phones and then let's go to Sabbath. Because those two, they don't change everything. But one is an ancient practice, God in creation set for us to live in a sacred rhythm of. I mean, it's a 10 commandment.

Yeah, it's a commandment. And the other is a modern day, only 15 years old guy. Like we all remember, or at least around this table, there are digital natives now that don't remember. But we all remember the corded phone and the ability not to answer it or buzz and distract you. And so let's go to the phone one. There's this book by Sherry Turkle called Alone Together.

And I'm just going to read this sentence. She says, studies of conversation, both in laboratories and in natural settings show that when two people are talking, the mere presence of a phone on the table between them or in the periphery of their vision changes both what they talk about and the degree of connection they feel while they talk. People keep the conversation on topics where they don't mind getting interrupted unconsciously. Even a silent phone disconnects us.

Wow. And I think about our families and our marriages and yeah, we've taken some practical steps and we revert back. You kind of have to constantly do these audits because the pull toward a distracted life is so big where Meg, you've taken Instagram off your phone at times and then you add it back and go, oop, I got to take it off again. I've gotten an old analog alarm clock where I don't have my phone by my bed where I'm not tempted first thing to look at my email. I'm going to look at my phone later after coffee and I spend time with Jesus. But then I think about our date nights and I think about our times together at night and I go, man, just having it present.

I read that quote and I go, for our marriage, for my own walk with Jesus, I've got to be even more countercultural to counter form against the lures of what the phone can do because it is built in and wired to make us addicted to us. I mean, that is fascinating that it changes your conversation and it's just sitting there. You're not looking at it. It could even be turned over.

That's scary. I mean, that statement right there, I've never heard that quote, says you need to have times in your life where it's gone. I mean, it's either turned off like you said.

Mine's beside my bed at night. I'm like sitting there going, what am I doing? I mean, you feel like, well, there could be an emergency at three in the morning and maybe if you have a watch on, it's still going to buzz. So, well, maybe you get rid of the watch.

I don't know what I'm saying, but man, oh, man. One of our sons decided to do that. He did the same thing, David. He doesn't have his phone beside him in the bed, but he also decided on a Sabbath every Sunday he puts his phone away and he puts it upstairs in the closet and he never goes and gets it. For the day. For the whole day. A true digital Sabbath. Yeah.

I am so inspired. It's marked him because they have four kids and he says, I'm realizing I'm always present with them. Otherwise, when your phone's there, what is that communicating to my kids?

It's really convicting. You know, I've said this many times. If I was God and I was coming up with 10 truths that will literally be the most important truths in the world, I don't know if Sabbath would make the top 10. And yet God said it's that critical that we rest. Our bodies, our souls, our minds, you have to rest. And I think of all the things we do, this is one we think, ah, it's not that important. But it is.

That's because we're Americans. I think other cultures do find it important. There is more communal value and family. Yeah, that's true.

That's interesting. The Sabbath, just to be clear, it's a 24 hour block of time that God commands us, stop working, enjoy rest, practice delight, and contemplate God. It's not just about stopping work, but there is this secular rhythm of like, we're going to work, work, work, work, work, and then take a vacation and fuel up with all this time off and then work, work, work, work.

And yeah, we're going to have relaxing things we do on the weekend, but it just blurs. And God says, okay, no, I'm the one that made you. And I made you with finite limits and out of a practice of you saying, I am finite and God, you are not, I can give you everything to delight in the people and to delight in God around me. He invites us to Sabbath. What a incredible sacred rhythm he has given us of work and rest and work and rest and work and rest so we make it for the long haul. Like we want to be people that make it for the long haul and don't have cycles of burning out.

And we're not, like, I'm saying all this with passion because I'm preaching to myself. Like we are, we do compromise it way too often and we're, we're coming to terms with that and for a new season, especially as our kids at this formative times in their life, it's a rhythm we want to, we're looking at hard. Even tying in the phones to the Sabbath. I mean, you said it, Ann, and it's something that we have done in the past and we're not in a season of being very good about this, but is putting away our phone for that day. And I think what happens when, cause I think it's easy to justify when if you're using your phone and it's not for bad things, you know, like it might be good things or necessary things or funny things or, but I think that no matter how much I want to justify it in my mind, that maybe this is my way I do downtime, but it prevents me from connecting with the people that I love and that love me. And if we commit to putting our phones away for those 24 hours, or maybe it's just, okay, realistically, we're going to take 10 hours of this day and put our phones up and maybe we need to check in with family or whatever, but it allows for deeper levels of connection and a rest that my mind has a harder time shutting down when I'm constantly getting text messages or I'm constantly getting email notifications. And they may not even be important, but we all know that when you pick up your phone to answer a text, I mean, for me, I get caught in three different things. And then I'm like, why did I even pick my phone up, you know, and forget to do the thing that I picked it up for in the first place.

Well, you're right, Meg, because your mind automatically shifts. And I'm thinking when you watch all of us now as Americans in line for anything, what do we do? We're bored, so we pull out our phone. I'm talking to all these young moms now, remember feeding our babies in the middle of the night?

Yes. In the darkness, in the quiet, and so many times I would pray because there's nothing else to do. But now it's so easy with phones, like we're not praying. When we're in line and we have empty space, even on a Sabbath, if we get on our phones, we're in a whole nother world and it disconnects us from the Father. I just heard recently that mothers are lacking connection with their infants. But bonding. Yes, they're not bonding in the same way because it's supposed to be eye to eye contact during that feeding time. But they're spending so much time scrolling and looking at their phones that they're missing some of that connection.

So it'll be interesting to see like how that pans out. I mean, for us, we didn't have phones with our older three. And then when Matt came along, our youngest, I did have an iPhone by that time. And I remember that tension and having to work through that. I mean, thankfully, I did have some people challenge me on that, but it was such an easier way to use my time. It's interesting to think, you know, when Jesus was challenged about the Sabbath, he said in Mark 2, toward the end of the chapter, he says, you know, man wasn't made for the Sabbath, Sabbath was made for man. It's a gift from God, rest to us. And I was challenged years ago, David, when you were talking about work, rest, work, rest to think the other way. Think rest, work. In other words, your work comes out of your rest. So look at your calendar and say, because here's what we do. Work, work, work, work. Where am I going to find a day or time for Sabbath?

Then we put it in. It's like, no, no, no. Start with Sabbath. This is my day of rest. This is I'm not going to compromise.

And then out of that energy that hopefully I've, you know, build up as I get to rest, I'm going to work. You know, it's a whole different way to think about life. And I tell you what, it's easy to say. Yeah, right. I mean, I always said pastors are the best at preaching about Sabbath and not doing it, you know, and it's like we do the same thing here at Family Life. It's like we work really hard and often we let our soul and our marriage just dissipate.

Yeah. You know, as we think about these concepts, I'm in the conversation, but all of a sudden, as you were sharing, Dave, I was like, man, okay. As a listener and as a achiever performer, which I am, which makes me not have margin in my life to the whole point of the topic. I just start putting on these shoulds on my life and okay, I need to do this with my phone and I need to do this for Sabbath. And I just would invite you, whatever God has piqued your interest in, just go dig into that. Like, go ask him, Lord, what do you want me to do with this?

Yeah. Because there's no prescriptive way, yet it is worth us just taking a moment. I'd love to create a little margin for us, even as you listen together, that we would have margin together just to hear God's word for the ultimate invitation he gives us. And it is a daily invitation of grace he gives us. It's one of our favorite passages.

Matthew 11. Hey, I would just add this. As David does this, I know me as a listener.

I'd be like, I don't have time for this. You got to choose right now. Take a deep breath and let's go on this little journey.

Yeah. Let's reflect together, create some margin to go with to Jesus's words. He says in Matthew 11, 28 and 29, Come, come to me, come to me, all who labor, come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden. take my yoke upon you. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take My yoke upon Me and learn from Me. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart.

And then one more time. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and lonely in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. My yoke is easy and my burden is light."

There's something about the repetition for me that in my hurriedness and as a achiever personality, it requires it for me to actually slow down enough to go, okay, God, you're not just wanting me to come away. I can freely come, okay? Lord, thank you for your grace. And I can approach your throne of grace with confidence, even though this whole episode, you know, makes me feel some shame and should. And I can come to you and I can learn from you.

Like you're the one who walked three miles per hour. I get to learn and I can come to you and I can find rest for my soul, for the gentle and lowly one who will take me by the hand and help me pursue Him well, pursue my spouse, pursue my kids, pursue the vocations and purpose that we have. But man, we ultimately long for that intimacy with Him and one another and out of that flow, purpose and making a difference. But man, let's come to Him. I'm Shelby Abbott, and you've been listening to Dave and Anne Wilson with David and Meg Robbins on Family Life Today. You know, David and Meg, along with Dave and Anne, are going to be speaking and cruising along with us on the Love Like You Mean It cruise. Now, we've been counting down all week to the sellout of the 2024 Love Like You Mean It cruise, and today is the day we expect to sell out.

This is Friday, so hurry if you'd like to join us. The cruise is gonna be early next year from February 5th to the 11th, and it's gonna feature some of the best speakers and Christian entertainers. As I said, the Robbins' will be there, the Wilson's will be there, along with so many others. So if you're looking for a unique and unforgettable marriage experience that'll give you time to really rediscover one another and reconnect with God, the Love Like You Mean It cruise is for you. So as I said, we're probably gonna sell out today, but definitely hear me on this. We don't want to let that stop you from calling and getting your name on a waiting list for the cruise.

Now, if that ends up being the case for you, we can all but still guarantee that you and your spouse will have a spot on the Love Like You Mean It cruise. So you can go online to LoveLikeYouMeanItCruise.com, or more importantly, give us a call at 800-358-6329, and a great way to remember that is 800, F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. You know, part of our struggle as Christians is that we think in terms of finished products, but next week, Kelly Kapik is gonna be with David Ann Wilson to talk to us about how we're only human, and the creation narrative explains to us that God values process as much as destinations. That's next week. We hope you'll join us. On behalf of David Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.