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Kevin DeYoung: Submission, Strength–and Stereotypes

Family Life Today / Dave & Ann Wilson, Bob Lepine
The Truth Network Radio
June 28, 2022 2:00 am

Kevin DeYoung: Submission, Strength–and Stereotypes

Family Life Today / Dave & Ann Wilson, Bob Lepine

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June 28, 2022 2:00 am

Can being a “submissive” wife also mean “strong”? Professor and author Kevin DeYoung tackles tough questions about marital roles.

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Who are some of the godly women that first come to your mind in the Scriptures are Ruth Esther Marysville. One of things that most likely have in common is their godliness was expressed in helping men and helping their husbands, but their godliness is in a supportive helping role. These are strong women. Esther she's courageous Ruth.

They're not doormats they're not wallflowers. They have different personalities so there's all sorts of pictures of biblical femininity in their all sorts of pictures of these godly women who embrace their role in supporting a husband in nurturing the care of children and so what many women need to hear is this message to gracefully lovingly follow support, respect your husband welcome to family life today where we want to help you pursue the relationship that matter most and will Dave Wilson and you can find us in family life or on our family life, family life today after being married to me for 41 years.

It is been a year spent mostly in several valleys, a few time you view our roles in our marriage differently than you did in year one. Well, yeah, I mean in your one I had no clue well-nigh. When I was 19.

I didn't grow up in a Christian home and divorce home didn't really have a dad and was pretty new on my face like 18 months to 24 months so I know what leading spiritually look like I didn't know what a husband look like I was we remember on our honeymoon. I broke down in tears. Yeah feeling overwhelmed with this new responsibility afternoon after going to the weekend. Remember yeah life, we can remember that we now speak for. If you have been the one to sign up right now. Go to for and go to wanted.

That's a powerful weekend but I walked away thinking oh my goodness.

I have to be this man that I don't think I can be and so I felt my role was I was ill-equipped to do it and so I was overwhelmed.

So now 41 years later, like all I am exactly God made me to be. You tell me I'm awesome and tries how strong I was just going to man, old man. In many ways you have stronger leadership gifts than I do and that caused some real friction in our marriage and we'll talk about that today.

I'm glad we can at times I think that the roles of marriage and even the friction that could happen as we try to understand our roles are a cause of contention for a lot of couples and I didn't know what that was supposed to look like either because I knew in life. I was really strong and I was a strong leader and so as I walked into my relationship with God. I was asking the question what is my role as a wife delight just push down all those leadership tendencies and do I bow at the feet of my husband all day here may think that would've been nice and I really didn't know but I was willing to do whatever God wanted.

I just didn't know. So we have given the young back in the studio back to Fay Miller today. Welcome back great to be here and that you can answer all or hardly at all this stuff, or counselor right there. Were there but you read a book all men and women in the church and it isn't just about men, women in church although much of it is it's also men and women, husbands will arrives in marriage.

Obviously her pastor, Matthews, North Carolina. You've written many books seminary trough right so you do all kinds of stuff and you write and think a lot about what we talk about right now. Well, the subtitle is a short biblical practical introduction why that well those are the sort of books that people read. So that's what I do I try to be short biblical and practical sobbed, you know, this booklet women. The church is trying to take a lot of good things have been written and said over the last 20 years about a lot of issues related to sex, gender, marriage, home, church, and try to put it in what is this hundred 50 pages that somebody might actually read it hopefully would be the most important word there is biblical yes minutes practical than a short euro marriage with Trish got nine kids.

Yeah, I'm guessing you have something that just means you get something for how we got married, had nine kids. I love my wife and feel like I have been immeasurably blessed. I have an easy wife and that scared Dave doesn't lead you to get well somebody has to say. She is easy husband so we been married for over 20 years. We both come from good Christian homes and that helps.

And yet we just we had kidded another kid and another kid said work will be open to more kids in the night. Don't know how open we want to be now.

But we have nine and it is craziness. That's not just something I say it really is crazy loud chaotic all the time people say one of my wife's gifts that she has a high threshold for chaos. She has to so there's a lot going on and if you came to the DeYoung house. I hope you feel like it's a happy house was a very normal house. Kids aren't never sitting down in the corner reading you know that Calvin's institutes of their outside their fighting there screaming and in the midst of it were trying to love each other. Trish and I are what Kevin talked to Young and Wilson married teen no church background hadn't really studied the Bible at that point. That much was new in a relationship with Christ. Yesterday we talked about men and their role. We looked at Ephesians 5. So now let's talk about winning. Yeah, I mean even as you go back to Ephesians 5 this is one of our struggles as we got married, as were new believers. Again, not brand-new but first couple years and we read passages Ephesians 5 and we talked yesterday. You know, husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church.

First 25 and then before that, and I've always joked at our church. You know, most men know one verse in the entire Bible uses 522 and we don't know what it means. But here we are. Try to understand what that looks like for aunt yeah I'll read it to us as wife submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord for the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church's body and is himself its Savior knows the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit everything to their husbands while we walk into marriage in and trying to live that out well. She felt like what you like. I had to just let me just say two weeks before we got married I went to the weekend to remember marriage get away.

You really are counselor today and I sat there as we started talking about them breaking down this Scripture why submit to your husbands and I sat in the back with my arms crossed, thinking I can't do that because I thought my mom was a doormat. He did everything my dad were in her life. He was a strong man and I felt like my mom had no voice and sell. I think when we have those feelings. It's good to go back and think what created that that Inkster thinking I'm not doing where they come from. And so then I'm trying to figure out what does it mean to submit to my husband as I think that's just a great discussion yeah one of the things to know right off the bat is it's a command for the wives, not for the husband's meaning.

The command is not husbands see to it that your wife submit that's a good commission is not something forcibly taken is something freely given on the wife's part so it's her intelligent, gracious submission to her husband's authority and leadership. I just did this in my seminary classes were talk about some of these issues and I said, who are some of the godly women that first come to your mind in the Scriptures that this is start the wood so they start saying Ruth Esther married so that they Deborah Deborah yeah Deborah, one of things that most likely have in common is their godliness was expressed in helping men and helping their husbands and sometimes helping you know Deborah helping Barack but their godliness is in a supportive helping role and the wicked women who comes to mind. The Jezebel or David's wife. They either lead their husbands astray or did not follow their husbands leadership or supports. So you see a pattern. It's not that they are all of these ironclad prescriptions.

Here's what a submissive wife looks like. So we need to distinguish between prescriptions and patterns so the pattern is prescriptive. But the pattern doesn't give you.

Here are 10 things that you must do and what it always looks like. But here's the other thing that I then said is when you look at those women in the Bible. These are strong women.

Proverbs 31 we all the Proverbs 31 woman always hater you know the wives like you never see she's up in the middle the night and under distaff, whatever that isn't she selling things he's working on. Yeah, she's a great mom and maybe is and I idealized personification of Lady wisdom there.

Proverbs 31 but these women, Esther. She's courageous, Ruth. They're not doormats they're not wallflowers. They have different personality so there's all sorts of pictures of the blue coal femininity and their all sorts of pictures of these godly women who embrace their role in supporting a husband in nurturing the care of children so we come to Ephesians 5 we realize as we said yesterday. Paul is addressing women at their area of fallenness, the husband Adam abdicated his responsibility in the garden, Eve. She usurped that authority and the serpent went to her and then she took in her husband was standing right there passively and it was a reversal of their roles and so what many women need to hear is this message to gracefully lovingly follow support, respect your husband and there's a lot of different ways of that looks like and I'm sure and you just nailed it 100%. As Dave can attest to know, and I think even if some women.

Here you can enter thinking you don't know who I'm married to. He's not a believer. Maybe she saying I have a really hard time really expecting hand. Yeah. So how do I submit to that guy like you guys you Kevin you Davey here easy to find were amazing, but there are some men that are in some women, like there there feeling like saying I don't even know how I can you're listening to David and Wilson with young family life today lawyer Kevin response in just a second person family life. We believe God's design for marriage and family. Some silly old fashion fun killing rulebook but that it's a good, true and beautiful design. And if you're passionate about more people catching that kind of vision for family, would you consider partnering with family life today all this week with your donation of any amount we want to send you Kevin DeYoung's book, men and women in the church. That's our thanks to you when you give this or you can give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329, 800 F is an family L is in life and in the word today. Right now, back to Damien's conversation with Kevin DeYoung and what wife can do.

When her husband is hard to respect we need to choose in our various situations of submission to respect and submit based upon the office, even if the person may not we feel be be worthy of it so we have to do this with the magistrate. Romans 13 we have in honor the emperor and for the office they hold whatever it is, under Gov. Pres., whether you think they person him or herself is worthy of that respect for the office that they hold. And so it is it is a choice that lots. People said this will you get married you think it's love that keeps the marriage together, you realize after years is actually the institution of marriage that preserves the love it's the commitment it's the choice you make it so it is a choice and I sympathize usually with women out there who are saying in my heart of hearts he's a jerk and some men they are and they shouldn't be in. They are submission doesn't mean but certainly doesn't mean you you just take abuse ever want to say that it doesn't mean that you can't voice your opinion doesn't mean that you let him lead you into sin.

Heaven forbid, but it does mean that even if in your feelings it's not there.

You stated as an act of the will, honey, I do love you I do respect you.

That's not hypocrisy that's a choice of godly maturity and we need to put that forward sometimes as an act of the will of the will and let that follow and hopefully if the husband is under the.

The work of the spirit that God will use that gracious attitude of the wife to soften his heart and that's you know first Peter three is about to that's what Ephesians 5 is getting yet it's a way to win over your husband said to me you never say anything but being for any relationship being a constant thorn in the flesh being a nag is never the way doesn't work yet tried it it doesn't work. It does not work also says as to the Lord yes were submitting as to the Lord had women cannot to me and say so you want me to be a Hollywood actress act like I like him or love him or when I have nothing and I said this is as to the Lord like you are worshiping God through the way you're treating your husband and you have to go back and this is hard when your emotions are so tied into it.

But think I married this man, because there something in him that I saw and so even to go back to those things and to complement your husband even when you don't feel like it and I'm not saying if he's harming you in any way like you need to remove yourself and to get help, but I'm just saying if you the relevant regular guy and he's just failing right. I think that sometimes we have that power your Kevin is talking about respecting your man.

Here's all I know you are married to one of the strongest women I've ever met. She's very strong and yet I sit here thinking she's been very respectful very submissive and one of the things we didn't understand really well in year one we thought submission meant I make every decision and I lay down my life and like you have no authority at all.

I'm or we were driving somewhere first year marriage and we did offer to get off this exit we get this yelling fight in the car and she yells back I supposed to do anything.

You're the leader you my decision. I just sit here and so I did and I got off the wrong exit and then Jesus in there like I think we missed our flight and I thought it was so ridiculous that that's what we thought submission look like you have no voice. You shouldn't say anything.

You make every decision cycle will I realize over years is likely where your wiser and so many things so a good loving sacrificial leader that we talked about yesterday is as a husband to love you and serve you and care for you would be many times I've turned Yangon. I don't know what to do what you think and you usually go.

I have an idea and a good leader goes, that's right, I didn't think it was still and maybe in the past I would've said we should do this and I don't do that anymore because you hear that, is that that's absolutely right. One of the words that I use the word posture yeah what is our posture toward one another would like. At times for life to just give us a list of prescriptions you do this don't do that, but it's a posture so you're sitting in a chair. You sitting straight are you are you slouching your posture says something about what your your attitude is the husband posture is eager to lead in the wife's postures is eager to follow but she's going to know more things in the husband about a bunch of things that you can have some personalities where the wife is the extrovert. He's the introvert.

The wife is very outgoing.

She may be better at managing the finances more organized. She may be the one to plan the trip. All those things could be true but that's why it's so good that God's word doesn't tell us have this personality. It tells us things that we can control things that we can do what I love what you said earlier in.

That's a good word for you. For wives, in particular, if you say I can't think of anything honestly that I like or love about my husband right now. The question that is is there anything you like or love about Jesus. Satan and that's where you start, you don't have to start with let's find the diamond in the rough here will get to that banner probably overlooking some things. But let's start with Jesus because there's lots to love in Jesus and he loves us and if we really love him and really worship him then will want to follow his instructions and will want to do this unto the Lord, even when the wife's husband doesn't look a whole lot like Jesus. Right now you can love and pray him into the sort of man that God wants them to be your Kevin talk about this from your perspective because we talked about this a lot. We wrote about it in her vertical marriage book, the idea of when and or when a woman or wife respects her man firms him believes in his apartment. Trust him. Those are words that use it in your book something happens in us as men that brings life to us that wants to because for years we we wrote about this and nag critique. I said one time I don't and I didn't want to marry my mom why are you but then she started cheering and believing anything change my whole that's right.

It's like I became a better man because she said I was a better man, I wasn't but I started thinking you really think I'm good. She's like yes and Mike I will be good so it it created a whole different dynamic in our marriage.

That's the power I think of respecting my right yeah and it's a picture of the gospel because God first declares something about us and then says go. Be who you are in Christ, you're as lovely as Christ or as holy as Christ. Now go and live up this person that I've declared you to be obviously it's different but there's an analogy there and I think so many of us and maybe men in particular, we are living our lives inside out.

Meaning if you think about your life and so you get your relation with God in the middle. Then you have your marriage and kids in your church and work and then you got this thing called the Internet. There are people who are living their lives for the people on twitter or Facebook or the approval of those people and neglecting what's on the inside and I was say people I can deal with a whole bunch of people hate me. The Kevin Young fan club does not have universal membership. I can assure you, but if the closer it gets to the center. It's healthy and it's good.

Then I can deal with some stuff. A church is better outside the and so outside of the relationship with the Lord. The most important thing is is with my wife and I just have to praise my wife because, yet we have fights and chilly days like everybody does. But I've always felt like I want to be the sort of person that she makes me feel like I am and respects me and I've always known that you will have disagreements we've had to make big decisions.

Certainly, I ask her I want her opinion and I'm not. I don't want to lead us in a place that makes her miserable, but I always know what the end of the day or end of some hard thing. Her posture is you know I believe in you, you know, I trust you, you know, I'll follow you, and I'll be okay.

And the Lord will be with us. That is a gift when a wife can speak that and more than speak it live that out because I really think men were not as tough as we like to think that we are and we can you know seem so tough at work and we can seem so tough when it comes to you, nor sports teams, but if we come home and and we feel like we have a wife who doesn't really look up to us doesn't really respect us are like us that we start looking for that in other ways which are bound to be unhealthy.

I'm just thinking of so many women that are feeling. This tug of their heart like I just lost on my feelings and respect for my husband. I don't even know where to start and what I would say is to start on your knees before God.

And when you get there just get in your life because I know is one person who is trying to find my life through my marriage entry. Dave he's not enough.

He's just a man, but there is a God that loves you knees you here, you knows the pain that you have felt and has seen every tear that come from your eye, and he wants to walk with you and he will I kitties done this with me. He has given me eyes for Dave that I see such greatness in him and then he gave me the power because he is already filled me up that then I can overflow and tell Dave like this is the greatness that I seen you and it all starts on our knees before a father who loves us. You been listening to Dave and Anne's conversation with Kevin DeYoung on family life to his book is called men and women in the church and will send you a copy when you give any amount If you know anyone who needs to hear conversations just like the one you heard today. Be sure to share it from wherever you get your podcasts and while you're there. It really help us out if you rate and review us tomorrow evening. Wilson will continue their conversation with Kevin DeYoung as they talk about explaining God's design for young men and young women that's coming up tomorrow on behalf of David and Wilson. I'm Shelby Abbott will see back next time for another edition of family life today. Family life to days of production of family life accrue ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most

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