Following God’s Will Together

All right, so as you think back on marrying me, your biggest thought was, I will never marry what? A pastor and go to Detroit. And a bald guy.

Well, I never thought about that, but that could have been one, two. How did that work out? Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson. And I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com or on our Family Life app. This is Family Life Today. So how did that work out?

It's so funny because I thought, these are the things that would be horrible if I did them. And now I'm living it. And it has been the greatest journey of my life.

It's been an amazing journey. And it's because of Jesus, because he's taken us. No, it's because of me.

Come on. Oh, I'm sorry. That's right. That's you, honey.

Yeah, it's because of Jesus. I bring that up because we've got a couple today that's lived a similar journey in terms of Levi and Jenny Lusko have started a church in Montana. And welcome to Family Life Today, you guys. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having us.

So fun. By the way, as many people know, not only are you pastors of Fresh Life Church in Montana and Wyoming and Utah and all kinds of different places, which you'll have to tell us how that happened, but also authors, prolific authors of incredible books. We're going to talk today about Through the Eyes of a Lion, but you've got I Declare War and Swipe Right. And how do I know all these things?

Because our son is your agent, your literary agent, which is really, really cool. But talk a little bit about your story. Well, wait, wait, wait. I want to hear. Look at that.

See how she cuts me off? I know, I'm already interrupting. How many years have you guys been married? Seventeen years.

Okay. And how many kids do you have? Five. We have to do a head count.

A bunch of little hooligans. You guys are looking at each other like. Five, right? How old are they? Well, you know, that's a tough question to answer always. We always struggle with it because people ask, we see us on an airplane, they go, how many kids do you have? Or is that all your kids? And for us, of course, and we'll talk about it, I'm sure that the tension is we have a child in heaven. And so we have four kids on earth, one child in heaven. So the asterisk on that is people ask how many kids you have or how they see us with the girls.

And they would go, oh, all girls. You know, and it's like, it's just funny because when you have a child in heaven, the clumsy articulation of an answer to that question is we technically still have that child that's not here with us. But five altogether. I gave birth to five babies. Yeah.

And how can you not include her because she's such a part of your story and your life, right? So our oldest is 15 and our youngest is three. Wow.

And we had four girls in a row and then a little boy three years ago. That's fun. Wow. So fun.

How has it been having a boy? Is it different? Amazing.

Oh, everything's different. So funny. So at Christmas, Levi was preaching obviously. And he had ordered a suit. For Lennox. I got a Lennox for a little kid suit.

For Lennox. So but for Levi, he was wearing a suit and Lennox was like, I want to wear a suit too. And I hadn't planned his like Christmas outfit. So Levi ordered one for him. And the whole time he was like, I'm going to get married on Christmas because he thinks like wearing a suit, he was going to get married on Christmas. And so it was just so cute because even now, like he's so, he always talks about his wife and how he's going to meet his wife at church and how he's going to kiss her on the lips.

Like that's like one of his big upsets. Pray for us. Pray for us. We got problems. I know. I know. And so anyway, it was so cute.

He's watched Beauty and the Beast a few too many times. Tell me this. Did you guys sort of meet the way Lennox wants to meet? Did you kiss in church? Is this how your relationship started? Oh, what a great question.

Yes, that is a great question. We didn't meet in church. You know, Jennie was an intern in the missions department. I was the assistant youth pastor and we met serving in the youth ministry, setting up chairs for the youth service. And she was volunteering. I was volunteering.

Well, it was my job. She was volunteering. And I knew immediately she took her all of two minutes and we both kind of had like this sense that she tells the story. She saw me and said, I would like to grow old with that person. And I just remember seeing, thinking she was beautiful. I didn't think anything about old age, but we definitely hit it off pretty quickly. Jennie, what made you say that?

That's interesting. Well, I think I said that further on in our relationship. Oh, I thought it was early. I don't think I. He wants it to be early. I don't think it was right away.

I'm compressing everything, of course. But it could have happened. My memory is not great either, but no, I remember, I think we were dating, but I remember like just looking up at you one day and thinking, I'd just love to grow old with, with Levi. Like because obviously you love Jesus, you're just fun, kind of a weird, like, I don't think of that often, but like, I just think it was just a sweet little moment that God kind of brought that to my mind. It was really sweet. It wasn't this moment.

Was it? Do you know the song? I want to make you smile when you are sad, carry you around the house when your arthritis gets bad. All I want to do is grow old with you. Come on. You don't know that. No, that's so sweet.

This is one of those moments where Austin would be so embarrassed because I would grab my guitar and sing that that's Adam Sadler in the wedding singer. Oh man. That's right. I didn't see that movie.

So you guys are too young. No, you saw that. No, I saw the wedding singer. That's a great reference.

It's on the airplane. It's so weirdly now that you say that. And that's a great movie reference, by the way, and you just fully like busted that out singing. I know. That's kind of what he does, you know? Whatever. We're done with that. So take us back, Levi.

You're a PK. Your dad was a pastor. Where did that begin? Like, did they grow up in the church?

Take us back to that. My parents were both radically saved in the midst of the hippie movement. They're both first-generation believers.

Their family's before them, atheism and secular is intellectual. And my mom's mom was married and divorced three times. My dad was raised by his stepfather and his mother.

He never knew his dad. And you know, he was told by his stepfather, he called him his dad. He put a $20 bill down on the table one day and said, that's the only God you ever need to worry about. Basically, that was the only education in spirituality he was given his almighty dollar.

So no upbringing of faith to speak of, or really love or affection for either of them on both sides. And so they just had to find their own way in the world. My dad got saved in Hawaii.

He was there to join the Greenpeace, Saving the Whales. And my mom got saved, I believe through InterVarsity, and she and him had dated before they were and lived together before they got saved, went their separate ways, both found Jesus, ended up coming back together, got married, super involved in church ministry and church planning. They ended up later getting divorced. Some things surfaced from both of them had lots of, of course, trauma, especially my mom from things that she faced before they came together. But so they're no longer together. But I had a very happy life, grew up in the church, knowing Jesus my whole life as a second generation Christian.

And so very different than them. And since I was two years old, felt a call of God on my life to be a pastor, like my dad is how I used to always say it. And I've never really done anything else but that. So if we had seen you in high school or maybe college, would we look at you and go, there's a future pastor. You're living a life that would make me think he's going into ministry. Well, I mean, I was not without my own my dips in sanctification, the sanctification journey, to be sure, but I preached my first sermon at 14.

I mean, I would get dropped off after school at church and serve in the youth ministry, help plan summer camps and mission trips. And I had a real significant challenge, a crisis of faith my senior year in high school, where for a few months, I mean, I was the chaplain of my Christian high school as a volunteer. So I mean, I was literally, you would have thought future pastor for sure. But that for about a three or four month period, I really wandered away and thought, it was kind of one of those proving times. I had been giving my whole life up to this and it kind of had to come to do I really believe this is really what I want to do and dabbled in drinking a little bit during that period and really had a wake up call of this is, you know, I was running. It was my Jonah moment.

I think it was mostly just feeling like that panic that like, maybe I made a mistake and you know, maybe I missed out. And I realized through those few moments of sin, it was kind of like a prodigal son coming to my senses, realizing how good I had it at the Father's table and really kind of never looked back from following wholeheartedly Jesus. And Jennie, what about your faith? When did that become really important to you? I grew up in a Christian home and I remember when I was seven, and I had seen the gospel presentation at church with Salty, the singing songbook. Salty, our kids love Salty.

Yes. And I remember that night, I remember my dad praying with me and I accepted Jesus, understood that I was a sinner and I needed, and Jesus died on the cross for my sins and rose from the dead. Like I remember understanding that to some extent when I was seven. And then it's really kind of been that journey of what it has looked like throughout different seasons and stages of my life to love Jesus and to follow Him. And I'm so grateful, but when I was in middle school, we were super plugged into our church and I just immediately got plugged into a small group and going to church and really kind of having my people at church and loving it and mission trips. I feel like mission trips where we would go to Mexico every summer and we thought we were doing something good for other people, but ultimately looking back, I see how God was just getting a hold of my heart and so grateful for that.

And then just journey through high school and boys, that was always a struggle, wanting to be liked by a boy, wanting to like a boy. But when I was 10 was when my mom brought me to this purity conference, it's called a Garden Enclosed. And I remember hearing for the first time that God wanted me to save sex until marriage and to save myself for my future husband. I didn't even know exactly what that meant, but I knew that I wanted God's best for my life. So I remember at that point really having that kind of goal of like, I want to live my life for God and I want to honor Him and I want to save myself for my husband one day, whatever that is. And what's so sweet was that was that at age seven and 10 were very significant moments with God. And it kind of like just led me through and, but I still had struggles with wanting to be liked by boys and stuff like that, but it was just really special when I was 19 and I felt like God was calling me to New Mexico and to be a part of their missions internship there. And it's so funny because my whole, even through high school, like I wanted to be a missionary and I always thought I was going to be a missionary in Africa or Asia.

So I'm literally missions moved me from Monterey, California to Albuquerque, New Mexico. And Levi and I met like right away and, but I had made a decision to not date that whole year just to focus on the Lord and not have any distractions. And so we met halfway through that year and looking back, it's just so special because God truly gave us the gift of a foundation of friendship. And so where my whole life I'd even from kindergarten on, I've always wanted to be liked by a boy and need to have that relationship with a boy. And here I am, I meet the man I'm supposed to marry, but there's the decision I had made to not date. So we literally were forced to be friends and I'm so looking back, we're so grateful for that.

But, but then we started dating right after my internship and got married. And so that's kind of, and my, my parents were Catholic. I was actually baptized as a baby as in the Catholic church, but they gave both giver lives to Christ when I was five, I think. And so that, that was kind of a legacy for me to walk in.

And since then, I mean, my parents aren't married anymore either, but I just, they laid out a good foundation for me and now so grateful. So here you are, and I'd love to hear how you end up in Montana. You know, I know that you had sort of a youth pastor or maybe teaching pastor job in Southern California, but then you get this call. So tell us that little story. And you said it was kind of a cush job.

Yes. Meaning, you know, didn't have a lot of responsibilities outside of communicating a message, which is in and of itself a challenge, of course, anybody who's ever had to preach is it's, it's hard work. So it takes time if you're going to do it well. And Levi's always put his heart and soul in messages. So even when we were leading youth group in New Mexico together, he would pour time and effort, energy and prayer into these messages for these students. So I've looking back, even seeing the, the love and the care and effort and energy going into messages back then, that's just kind of been a, I mean, you guys think through his whole life.

It's hard work Chris. But I didn't have any of the other responsibilities that make ministry more challenging. You know, dealing with teams, dealing with the burden of finance, HR, all the things that really bring headaches and complexities to ministry. And yet we kind of always deep down knew that one day that we, we had the desire, you know, kind of entrepreneurial mission. Like we said, we both got our start in missions and that mission, that missionary spirit that is at the core of church planting. You guys are church planters, you understand that? And so we kind of felt like the time was going to come when we would probably feel that call and we weren't in a rush or hurry.

We were always under good leaders. And so we knew the time would come and God would show us and we'd be, you know, given the go ahead to go do that. Well, it came sooner than expected because the senior pastor at our church left. And when that happened, the board looked to us to start doing the teaching.

And in that season, we were fine with it. But then, and the church was maybe 2000 people, so it was a good sized church. It felt small compared to the churches, the church I grew up in specifically, but you know, it's in America, that is a big church and, and I was, okay, yeah, I'm excited. Actually it was, I was excited to teach in the main sanctuary as opposed to just the student ministry. I was nervous it wouldn't work.

So I just sort of gave the same student messages I would give and lo and behold, it worked. It connected. Then people were like, that's great.

You know, truth is truth, right? It reached them. But then the board said, Hey, this is going well. The church is growing and responding well to your gift. We'd like to make this permanent and make this like the arrangement that you'll be the teaching pastor and someone else will make the decisions. And that was when we felt pause because it was fine as a temporary arrangement, but to be in a situation where we had no leadership say, and we just were there to show up, give a message and then shut up. We didn't feel as comfortable with that because you know, we'd have to basically prostitute a teaching gift to the exclusion of any other abilities we have.

Not to say anything about the kind of idea of the authority of the pulpit should be matched with vision and leadership, you know, say so, because how I think the communication of God's word should set the pace for the vision and the execution of the church. And so to have someone else doing that, it just didn't sit right with our spirit. And so we began the journey of praying about what God might have next for us, as opposed to just staying there, but not really believing that that was what God called us to do because it was a good paycheck. We had a great life. We lived a mile from the beach, had season passes to Disneyland, you know, and it's, it's something California who doesn't want to live there, right?

When you say Kush, that was kind of why we called it a Kush job. We could have very much stayed on autopilot there and given a message once a week and you know, basically just, but we wouldn't have felt right. And we knew that if God called us to something else, to say no to that would be to miss an opportunity, even though it seemed like the path less taken. And for us that, that ultimately led us to Montana, which didn't feel like suffering because I grew up in the ski towns of Colorado and I loved that. But it just wasn't the metropolitan area that we always kind of deep down suspected we would end up in Los Angeles or New York city or Chicago or something. And you know, it was mountain town, small little area, and yet it was what God kind of put into our hearts. And so you started fresh life and I'm guessing you didn't start with a thousand people, but probably sort of small and it starts to grow.

Tell us a little bit. Yeah, 14. 14 people came. 14? Uh, 14.

We met above a bar in an upper room. We had, uh, left California was 70 degrees in January. We got to Montana first Sunday was 14 degrees, which is very different baby. As you know, in Michigan, 14 is cold and, uh, you know, wind chill worse than that drifting snow. And we both were like looking at each other, like what, where are we done?

Well, and sounds a little bit like Detroit. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you find that, I mean, it was some 20 degree wind chill really quick and we were both looking at each other and thinking we made a huge mistake. And did you have kids at the time?

We had one and Jenny was pregnant, but I didn't know I was pregnant until we moved to Montana. Right when we got here, we found out. But it's interesting because today there are church planning, like organizations that help people. Okay, so you want to plan a church in Chicago. We're going to help you. Here's, here's what you do. Here's finances.

Like, so there's an organization that can come behind you and support you. We didn't have such a thing. And all of our friends were old who had planted churches, so we would ask them what they did and they would say, well, you know, we started duplicating tape cassettes. It was like, no, I don't think that's going to help us. Literally all the friends were fifties and sixties.

So their frame of reference was, you know, three decades prior, which is all principles are true. I mean, meaning people and connection and all that, but as far as like, you know, so literally we were taking out ads in the newspaper, you know, we just didn't know what to do. But the cool thing was God, you know, it was kind of like the old commercial. You asked for it, you got it. We felt like you asked for an adventure, you got adventure, baby, you wanted to use faith. Here you go. And you wanted to be a leader.

Well, here's a chance to lead. And it was, it was a beautiful chance for us to develop into who God wanted us to be. Most of our listeners are married. They've got families, blended families, you name it. I'm guessing that could have been somewhat difficult on your marriage at that time, starting a new thing and small and stress new thing. Talk about that a little bit.

What was it like for your marriage? I honestly, I mean, I'll just speak for you. I thought that that was one challenge that really wasn't too hard for us. We bonded together. We were, we were really in it together, us against the world. It wasn't like Levi felt this is what God's calling us to do. And then I was like, okay.

And reluctantly going, it was like, no, yeah, this is a, this is what God's calling us to do. I feel like, well, we were only, we had been married three years. And so, I mean, we were new, newly married. And then Olivia was 15 months old and then I was unknowingly pregnant with Lenya. And how old were you guys at the time?

25, I think. Yeah. But again, but like I said, we, we had, we've been in what we were doing for a long time. Like I said, preaching at 14, you know, we both had planned and led mission trips.

You were made to do this. Yeah, honestly. And it hasn't felt like we were thrust into anything that God hadn't prepared us for.

Right. Like it was definitely hard. And I think the bigger step of moving to Montana wasn't as hard as just the daily. And I think that even in my life, I feel like that is definitely more of a struggle. It's like, oh yeah, the big step of faith, that's actually easier to trust God in.

Cause it's like, it's a big thing and He'll take care of it versus the daily leading and in marriage. Yeah. Like the little, I remember one of the biggest challenges I remember was we, we had, we failed to turn a form in soon enough after our second daughter's birth. And so the health insurance rejected her entire first year on being on our, on our health insurance.

And so her birth and all the subsequent things, and then she had RSV, so it was hospitalized. We ended up having to pay out of pocket for all that. And we, you know, we had the funds to live early on very simply. And so the unexpected medical bills, that presented stress that was unique to that season of our lives.

And I remember looking back going, you know, that, that really was challenging to trust God through. And so your church started to grow quickly, rapidly, I mean, God was really moving and your family started to grow too. Take us to that point when you have four kids. Oh goodness gracious, like rabbits, cold winters, got to stay warm. That's how we had all those kids.

You know, how do you get, how else are you going to stay warm, right? Well, the church grew and soon we had, and I know you guys have a story, similar trajectory of just growth and new cities and opportunities. And we had multiple campuses and then multiple kids. We had four daughters and then a little, little boy came way, way, way, way later. But, um, uh, it was very much like every day a new thing and it was a beautiful, we've always said like the church plant journey was like skiing in front of an avalanche and God's Holy spirit was in it and people are getting saved and touched and, you know, lives are being impacted. And that's been kind of the fun, beautiful thing watching all the kids before COVID, we were, we had just opened our 13th location, which was in a prison in the state prison in Montana, which we had a population every week gathering to watch.

And yeah, such a fun blur looking back on it all. And obviously, you know, we have a devastating moment coming in your marriage and in your life. But before we talk about that, talk about calling, you know, as a couple, cause you've talked about your call. How do you know, how do you sense what God wants you to do? Well, I think that asking of the question is where the journey begins.

It's one of those paths that you don't find until you start trying to walk it. And so I think where we begin in scripture is always with the general will of God. God's will is that none should perish.

So am I saved? God's will is that I'm sanctified and sexually pure that I'm thankful and rejoicing always. So like when we start to do those sorts of things, I think the, the more specific tangential areas of this school, that brand of toothpaste, those things sort of God, as you're walking in the general will puts in your heart, the desires that He wants you to walk in. And so I think it was Augustine who said, love God and do whatever you want.

And there is some truth and some freedom to that. God's call is whatever you do to the glory as you walk with Him in relationship. And Colossians says, the peace of God will rule in your hearts to which you're called and be thankful. So I think there's a sense in which you really can say, look, I'm saved. I'm not in gross sin. I'm serving, tithing, giving, you know, all these things that I'm supposed to be doing. And now I get to do whatever I want. So is God, is my desire to take this job? Great. Take it. Do I desire that sport in school? Amazing.

Go for it. And I think there's a freedom in it that where you view God's will more as a launch pad than a lockdown. That's good. I think, I think also in the marriage where both the husband and the wife are following hard after God individually, because I think when we're hungry for God on our own, and then we're together asking God to lead us and what He has for us and the daily things too, it's easier because we're both listening for God's voice and we're both wanting to be strong in our relationship with Him individually, that it makes it easier and it takes the pressure off of each other to try to like, well, Levi, you're leading me, so you have to make all the decisions. But it's like, no, I'm also hearing from God and there is such a peace right now in this decision. And honestly, like there's such beauty in that when we're both following Jesus and loving Him and then letting Him lead us together. As I listen to you guys, what I hear and what I see are lives that are just surrendered. Like God, here we are, we'll do anything and go anywhere for you because we want to make your name known.

And I think that's the key and maybe you're listening and your spouse isn't on the same page spiritually, but you still can go before the Father who hears every single prayer. As you call out to Him, He's like, I hear you, I hear your passion, I want to answer you. And so even if we go before the Father and we go before Jesus and Lord, I want to live the life that you've called me to. He's not going to say, nah, I'm not going to do that. He's like, I'm all about that. I want you to live because I've created you and I've put gifts in you and strengths in you to bring glory to my name and it will bring you joy. And as I look at you two, that's what you've done.

You've surrendered. You've heard the call and you're just kind of walking this path of what He's placed before you because He's put so many gifts into you. And I'd also sense that it's a joint calling that He calls the two of you. I know that when we got married, I knew that my call would be our call.

It isn't God calling me or calling in. We're married. We're one. He's going to call us together. Obviously, we've walked a similar path in terms of planting churches, but I think that's true for every couple.

When you're married, it isn't a separate. It's a calling as a partnership for kingdom impact. True? Right. Yeah.

That's true regardless of how it actually works out mechanically. I think if someone listening, if their husband is on the road or whatever, it's like you're still a part of it even though you might be behind the scenes. Someone asked John Glenn what it was like to be the man who'd orbited the earth for the first time. And he said, well, I got to actually be there, but there's 400,000 people at NASA who put me out there. So I think maybe in our roles, we get to serve more publicly.

You're on the radio together. We lead as a church planting couple together. But for the couple who maybe the mom stays home or whatever, you still are a part of what God's called your husband or your wife to do even if you serve in a way that's unseen.

As Paul says, the hand needs the eye, the eye needs the foot, et cetera. I think knowing that it changes too because for us, there's a season where I was literally home all the time with our kids and homeschooling and all that stuff, and now it just looks a little bit different in this season. But knowing that it's not like just because it's one way, it's going to always be that way, but being sensitive to the spirit leading. And Levi also was so amazing in leading in that way, too, of like giving me more of like kind of pushing me because I'm more like a reluctant leader, I guess. And so he's more like, no, I want you to say something or I want you to choose this or I want you like. And so that has also been super helpful for me as being more of a no, actually, I like being in the background and I don't want to do anything like that. So that's been helpful just in even our relationship, too. And I also think, you know, when you think about calling, especially as we're talking about a married couple, you think God's call will not involve pain, it will not involve loss. And as we step into the rest of your story, we're going to find out sometimes it doesn't go the way we think and it's going to be really, really hard.

Anytime we're facing an option between a place that looks good and the place that God is calling us to, it's always the right choice to go where God is calling us. That's a great conversation today with Dave and Ann Wilson talking to Levi and Jennie Lusko about their story, about their life, and as Dave mentioned, there's more to this story that we'll be hearing this week. Levi has written a book called Through the Eyes of a Lion, Facing Impossible Pain, Finding Incredible Power, which is the story we're going to unpack. That book is available in our Family Life Today Resource Center. You can order the book from us online at familylifetoday.com or you can call to order 1-800-HELP.

1-800-FL-TODAY is the number, 1-800-358-6329, that's 1-800-F as in family, L as in life, and then the word TODAY. Now this is the last day of May and if you've been listening to Family Life Today at all during the month of May, you know that we have been hoping, praying, asking you to help us take full advantage of a matching gift opportunity that was made available to us back at the beginning of the month. Generous friends of this ministry came and offered to match every donation that we received during the month of May, dollar for dollar, up to a total of $350,000. And with this being the deadline day, we are hoping that many of you will call or go online and make as generous a donation as possible so that we can take full advantage of this matching gift opportunity during the month of May. In fact, you've heard me talk about being a monthly legacy partner, somebody who supports Family Life Today on a monthly basis.

When you do that, every donation you make over the next 12 months is going to be matched dollar for dollar as long as there are funds still available in that matching gift fund. And new legacy partners will receive a certificate to attend an upcoming Weekend to Remember Marriage Getaway as our guests, that certificate is transferable. You can pass that on to somebody you know who would benefit from going to a Weekend to Remember. We're so excited to have weekends to remember happening again.

We have a few this spring and we have a full schedule planned for the fall. Become a legacy partner, get your certificate for a Weekend to Remember, and help us take advantage of this matching gift opportunity. Make your donation online at familylifetoday.com or call 1-800-FL-TODAY and do it today if at all possible. And we hope you can join us back again tomorrow when Dave and Ann Wilson will once again be talking to Levi and Jennie Lusko and we'll hear about the day right before Christmas several years ago that was one of the darkest days in their family's history and how God met them in that moment. That comes up tomorrow. Hope you can join us for that. On behalf of our hosts Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We will see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.