The Rhythm of Discipleship

All of us as parents want our kids to fit in, right? Adam Griffin says we ought to rethink that. One thing that we should talk about that's really, really important in family discipleship is we are trying to raise kids that are very used to being different when you're trying to raise a Christian kid, because our culture is increasingly secular. One of the most important things for us to remember is to raise a Christian right now is not to raise a kid that's ready to be the most popular kid in school.

It's ready to stand up for what's right, even when nobody else wants to. This is Family Life Today. Our hosts are Dave and Anne Wilson. I'm Bob Lapine. You can find us online at familylifetoday.com.

How can we raise kids who fit in and yet still stand up for their faith at the same time? We'll talk more about that today with Adam Griffin. Stay with us. And welcome to Family Life Today.

Thanks for joining us. We need to do this again. A few years ago at our church, we got together three couples who are now empty nesters, and we had an evening where they shared with the parents in our church what they would do differently if they were doing parenting again. Great topic. You get parents together and ask them, tell us about your parenting, and most of those parents can go, well, here are the mistakes we made, right? We overlooked some of the victories, and we're just aware of the fact, the things we wish we could have done differently. But these empty nesters had a lot of great insight into some of the very practical things that they were doing, and these younger parents were eating it up.

You know, I'm sitting right now beside an empty nester named Bob Lapine. Bob and Mary Anne, what would you share? Well, I think we'd go back to some of those things we wish we'd done differently. We've talked this week about trying to model goodness and forgetting that we needed to show our kids that we're fellow strugglers and that we mess up and confession, repentance. I remember a guest on Family Life Today who said every discipline encounter he has with his child, his goal is to have that child love Jesus more at the end of that discipline encounter. I thought, that's not what I was thinking when I was disciplining my kids. I was thinking, my goal is to get you to straighten up and make my life easier, right?

So it would be those kinds of learnings where I'd go back and say, yeah, if I had a do-over, I'd do some things differently. And I'm just thinking, we've got a lot of young parents who are listening to Family Life Today who would love some coaching, and we've got a great coach. We do have a good coach. Who is joining us this week. Thanks, Bob, I appreciate that.

Family Life Today. I'm talking about Adam Griffin joining us. Welcome back.

Hey, thanks for having me. Adam is a pastor from East Dallas. He and his wife have been married for 10 years. They've got three sons at home.

He has written a book together with Matt Chandler called Family Discipleship. And in reading the book, I was just impressed with the fact that this is something that you've moved from the kind of the abstract ideas of we need to be about these important topics into some of the very practical, here's how we're trying to live this out in our home. If you were sitting down with a couple and they told you our baby's going to be born next month, and we just want your coaching tips on what we should do in the early years and then what we should start getting ready for as our kids get older, where would you start with them?

It's a great question. The congregation, actually, that I pastor is very young, and so we actually have that question a lot. It's a lot of people having kids for the first time and thinking about what does discipleship look like from day one, from step one. And I think one of the things you pointed out that you would want to do over, and we say that while you don't get to actually do anything over, there are a lot of try agains. There are a lot of, I'm going to try again, and I may not be able to do yesterday over again, but I'm going to try again. And that's true from day one of parenting. It's really easy to find things you regret or wish you had done different. But for every one of us, we can come up with the example of what it looked like in each one of our families. And whether it's around this table, around your church, and it's going to be different for every family. So the struggle was, when writing a book, I don't want to just write a book that says, well, here's what it looks like for the Griffins and the Trimlers. Here's the formula.

Follow the recipe and your kids will turn out great. Yeah, just do it like us. But we have some general categories and then hopefully some helpful examples that say, well, while it doesn't have to look just like the Griffins, it could look more generally like the Griffins. I'll give you an example. So where I live, I live in a neighborhood that is very diverse, and it's actually a lot of refugees. A lot of people who have moved here from another country, escaped something horrific, and now they're trying to learn a new culture. And so for me, the general principle might be, hey, invite your kids into how you want to demonstrate biblical hospitality. The specific example might be, in the Griffin family, we try to do our best to welcome those families that are new to our neighborhood, understanding that they're refugees and new to the culture to let them know.

If there's anything you need help translating, anything you need help navigating in the city ordinances or in the city, or as you need help finding a job or getting resources, that's why we're here. Without turning other people into a charity, helping our kids understand this is how we make friends. This is how adults make friends.

We don't do it like you do it. We do it like this, and this is how we love our neighbor. And so the general principle will be, hey, families, invite your kids into how you love your neighbor. And here are some ways to think about it. Whether you are a person who goes to the gym or you're a person who's involved in a school or you're a person that's involved in the community, invite your kids into how you do that.

And here's what it looks like for the Griffins. As our kids were growing up, I had the impulse, the thought that maybe on a Thanksgiving we should see if we could volunteer somewhere where they're serving meals, right, to people who are less fortunate. And at the same time I'm having that impulse, I'm thinking, yeah, but it's Thanksgiving and you want to do the family thing at Thanksgiving.

You want to watch the Detroit Lions. You want to make the dinner that's the memorable dinner. You want to make a memory for your family. So I always defaulted to that, kind of being the family centered, this is how we're going to celebrate, because that's what I did when I was growing up. I do look back and think I should have been more purposeful with our kids and say, this is what we do.

We serve, we find ways to serve, and it's not just mom and dad go do it while we get a babysitter for you, but we find ways you can serve right alongside of us. Yeah, I think one of the things you just brought up even in a joke talking about the Detroit Lions. You love the Detroit Lions, right? Like this organization, your kids would not be surprised to find out you'd like to watch the Detroit Lions game. It's a forced love.

Forced love, okay. But it's not hard to be around you and be surprised by that. And that's what we're talking about in family discipleship is I want families where if your kid found out you were a Christian, that would be so heartbreaking. It should be so obvious to your kid because they see the way that you are in the Word, the way that you pray, the way that you follow the Lord, and what you say to them, how it colors your conversations. And it should be so ordinary for your kids to know you love the Lord. At the same time, it's okay to invite them into like, hey, the fact that dad loves the Detroit Lions, maybe family discipleship is going to look like, hey, when it's halftime, we're going to do a little locker room talk with dad. Let me talk to you about dedication.

Let me talk to you about what we're seeing in the game. And it doesn't have to be the, okay, let's stop our normal life and let's start this kind of false Christian life on the side. It's seeing that God infiltrates every avenue of what we do. It's part of everything that we are, whether it's our love of football or whether it's our love of crafts or whether it's, you know, our jobs.

The Lord is a part of all of it, and that's what I want our kids to see. Well, you made this comment, and I don't even know exactly what you meant, but I heard this, and I had read your book about loving your neighborhood and the diversity of your neighborhood. And again, I don't even know what you meant by this, but you made this comment, maybe you guys didn't hear it, but you said something about taking donuts to the bus stop.

And I'm like, okay, that's interesting, and I'm guessing your boys are watching this happen, so what's on the phone? Well, my boys really wanted the donuts if you want to start there, but kids wait for the bus in front of our home. And this is how we've met our refugee neighbors is as their teenagers and their kids are waiting for the bus, we decided, hey, they're literally coming to us.

They're in our front yard. Why don't we just go out and offer them something to eat and strike up conversations and then leverage those into opportunities to share the gospel? That's the driving force behind it, not to create some version where our kids will just witness it, but we invite our kids because we want them to grow up where it's very normal to see their parents evangelizing and discipling. And being exposed to other cultures has been very good for our kids as well. In fact, one thing that we should talk about that's really, really important in family discipleship is we are trying to raise kids that are very used to being different when you're trying to raise a Christian kid. Because our culture is increasingly secular, one of the most important things for us to remember is to raise a Christian right now is not to raise a kid that's ready to be the most popular kid in school.

It's ready to stand up for what's right, even when nobody else wants to. Walk us through that conversation, Adam. Like, what does that sound like as you're talking to your kids? Well, even this week, I'll give you a very present example. We were talking through the story of Zacchaeus in our family discipleship time before I put him to bed. And the story of Zacchaeus is about a wee little man who comes to know the Lord, and even though the entire crowd thought it was a bad idea for Jesus to go to his house. And so what we talked about is, is it always accepted by the crowd to follow Jesus?

Or does Jesus always do what the crowd thinks is right? And they were like, no, it's not. And so the language we've been using in our house is, did you know that following Jesus will sometimes make you weird and sometimes make you different? And it doesn't mean it's not right.

It's actually righteously abnormal, is the words we use in the book. We want them to be prepared to stand up for what's right, even when nobody else thinks it's a good idea. And that's because we believe, scripturally, God says, if you follow me, people in this world are going to hate you. And so if I'm not preparing my kids to be hated by the world, then I'm going to send them out into a world that is very different than what is the reality.

The reality is that this world, its sensitivities are offended by many of the things that I believe. And so I want my kids ready to be strong, not that they would be intentionally irritating to the world, but that they'd be ready to believe what's true, even if it does irritate their friends or the people around them. And that's very different than my parenting instincts that say, hey, be universally loved by your kids and all those around you and create kids that are universally loved by their teachers and those around them and their peers. Instead, I'm saying prepare kids to universally love God no matter what, no matter what their friends think, no matter what their teachers think. I want them to understand what is true, right, and good. Well, it's interesting as you give an example about the bus stop.

Yeah. I'm sitting over here thinking, wow, what a different perspective than many parents in even Christian homes. There's kids in my front yard trampling down my grass waiting for a bus stop every day.

We've got to move the bus stop. I don't want these kids in my yard. And your perspective is God's bringing the world to us. Let's go out there and love them. You know what I'm saying? And they don't look like us.

They're different backgrounds. Again, I'm a pastor in a church, and I know many people in my own church would say, I don't want those kids and those kind of people in my front yard. And what does that parent just translated or model for his kid? Yeah. The opposite of being the light of Jesus and loving their neighbor, and yet you walk out there and you, you know, I don't think you said, boys, here's how you love your neighbor. You just did it because what do you think Jesus would do? That's what he'd be doing.

Donuts always work, by the way. Yeah. I like the idea of asking God, what have you put in front of us?

And that's what happened. And God is longing to show us. He's longing to disciple our kids. He's discipling us along the way. So I like that you're saying, who are you?

What has God put before you? You're living in this neighborhood. What are our neighborhoods like?

And Bob, I would say that's one of my regrets. I think it's easy today to become so consumed with school, so consumed with sports. We go to church on Sunday. I think a lot of parents feel overwhelmed by homework and COVID and you're doing school online and they feel overwhelmed.

So now they're thinking, oh, great, now I have to have a ministry too. And my kids have to see me. That is such a good point because I think every parent will relate to that. Every important thing in this kid's life. So are we saying that now, Adam, you're going to add something else important to this?

We're already stressed enough. And I think actually what we're saying is let's not do the disservice of pretending those things are more important than leading your kid towards eternity. So we'll add it to the list and be like, now I also got to do a family devotion.

It's like, no, no, no. If you don't have time for this, then you actually don't have time for all the sports and activities. And this is so much more important than whether you're feeding your kid, whether you're clothing your kid, whether you're getting your kid in the right school. The spiritual leadership of your home is the priority the Bible puts on your family. But we make it one of a list of priorities.

And so we tried to write this book in a way to really communicate. This is not to stress you out with one more thing. This is to help you understand the truth of all the things you're doing.

And I think it's, I mean, a lot of guys maybe are like me where I coach high school football. You put a defense in front of me as an old quarterback. I can tell you where to attack it.

I walk in my house and my wife says, can you lead us spiritually? I'm like, uh, what's that look like? You know, I know what cover two looks like.

I know how to throw a seam wrap down the middle and look. You want me to what? Yeah. I'm supposed to what?

Well, I mean, what do you say to the dad or the mom? Yeah. How do I do it? I don't feel equipped. I've never been trained. I've been trained these other years. I know how to get a sales job done.

Yeah. But lead my family and create disciples. That's the pastor's job. That's the church's job. That ain't my job. Or that's my wife's job.

What do you say to that parent? Well, do you look off the safety and the safety of Satan in this case and then you're just. We're not going that far. Okay. Every Satanist.

Every safety of Satan. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I think that's the purpose of the book we wrote was to say, hey, there's a lot of families out there who didn't grow up in a home that discipled them. And there's a lot of families out there that are going, hey, I've got all these resources. I've got a kid's Bible and I've got kid's music and I've got kid's storybooks. But how is this part of a plan?

What am I supposed to do with this? Is this occasional? Is it sporadic? Is it every day?

Is it all day? And what if my kids don't seem like they're driving with it? And so the book is to help no matter what your family looks like, no matter how it's made up, to be able to sit down and get on the same page with your spouse or your church or your community with what can a very simple plan that's ingrained in what our life already looks like, how can a plan like that happen in a way that's not going to stress me out or overwhelm me and is going to help me see the permission, the empowerment of the Holy Spirit in it, and at the same time not minimize the importance of it to make it something where, yeah, every once in a while we'll think about that. But this is something that we are perfectly capable of doing, not of our own strength or will, but because of the God that we follow. God has made this a priority.

Therefore, we know God has empowered His people for it, not to do without Him, but to do in and through Him. In one section of the book, you actually model for us what you do at night. Yeah. I mean, I'm a guy, and I'm like, just tell me what to do. Just tell me what to do. And you walk through bedtime. Walk us through bedtime. Well, we have a very simple rhythm. Often it's just we read Scripture, we share, we sing, and there's prayer. And that's very, very simple.

And our kids are— I gotta tell you, some guys just went, oh, boy. That's too much. We sing, we pray. But I'm guessing it's just pretty simple, right?

It is very simple. And we sing a very simple song that we sing at church, which is a benediction or a doxology. I'll tell you, of the people, without busting my wife out, of the two people in my marriage, one of us is not a great singer.

Can I say that? And it's still great. It's still a chance for us to sing with our kids. It's not goofy.

It's not strange. Singing is something the Lord has called us to. Now, not every family is going to sing. Not every family is getting out the bongos and the guitar and worshiping together. Although, for some people, that is it for them. They love that.

Maybe they're putting in the music, and they're listening to it, and they're focusing and meditating. That's not my family. My family is—we're going to read a very short Scripture story. Often, it's a parable or a narrative from the Bible. And then we're going to just ask a couple questions about it. Like, do you see what I see here?

Or what do you see from it? And the older our kids get, the more complicated those questions can be and the more vulnerable and honest I am with my own struggles. And then we're going to sing something almost as we conclude our time together. Let's just remind ourselves to align our hearts around the Lord, and then we pray together. And as our kids get older, we invite them to pray or ask each other what they can pray for, and they share those things with each other. Do you put your hands in a little huddle? We often do. We'll hold hands while we sing, and then we'll put our hands in the middle while we pray. And it's a physical ritual that helps focus. Because my kids, like you guys have described your three boys, they can be all over the place. But if we do something like, hey, all the Griffins are going to put our hands in the middle, at the end of our prayer, when we say amen, it's going to be almost like we're breaking the huddle.

It is a sweet treat for my family, and it helps them focus. And it feels like we're doing something together. You just modeled the Griffin family.

I'm guessing the Lapine's didn't look that way, the Wilson's. You can, it's almost like we can step back and go, what's ours going to look like? Are we going to sing?

No, we're not singing. Okay, what are we going to do instead? You know, what is going to be a Wilson-ness or a Lapine thing that makes disciples our unique way?

That's fun to think about. Well, and that's what we're saying is that there's a time, moments, and milestones are going to look different for everybody, but the framework itself can work for everyone. That we're saying there should be some time set aside. We're saying this is time where our family is just thinking about the Lord. There should be times where we're taking advantage of things throughout the day. And then there's milestones that we should be aiming at, pointing towards, celebrating when the Lord does something really significant. And how do we incorporate those three aspects of the framework into how do we disciple our kids? You have life verses for your kids, you incorporate that into bedtime somehow?

Yes, absolutely. As we put them to bed, and I've talked to some friends about this too. It's one of my favorite things. Some of my friends have written kind of original blessings for the kids. Like, hey, I'm so proud of you. I love you.

These are things I see in you. What we've done for each one of our kids is for each one of our kids, we've chosen a verse from the Bible that we will share with them every night as we put them to bed. And as they've gotten older, it's the first verse that they memorize, and now they can say it back to us.

But for each one of our kids, for Oscar, it's from Corinthians. We say, be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like a man and be strong, and let everything you do be done in love. And it's a great blessing verse, but it's also, when we incorporate it into discipline, we'll say, hey, remember how at night we'll say to you, let everything you do be done in love.

Walk me through what just happened. Do you feel like what's going on in your life right now is living up to this principle that we want to live to, that everything we do is done in love? And the same thing for my other boys with their verses. How did you pick the verses for your sons? Honestly, my wife and I just had a conversation where we said, hey, what verses stick out to us from the Bible that would be something we really hope would be true for our sons, or what situationally happens in the Bible that we hope we get to repeat in this one. So for my son, Gus, my second born, we chose the last words of David to a son, Solomon, where he says, hey, basically he says, be a man and follow God.

And that's what we wanted for him. And then for my son, Theodore, our third born, it was a little bit more of like, hey, there's so much in the Bible that is so good, and we want him to remember. And we settled on Micah 6-8 just to really try to give him something clear that was a summary to say, we want you to be all about justice and mercy and walking humbly with your God. And hopefully as they get older, they can appreciate the greater depth, but right now it's just words they remember. I remember talking to a mom and dad who would change that every year on the child's birthday. They'd come up with a verse for the year that was going to be their focus verse.

And again, that kind of a regular rhythm. You can have a life verse, but if there are yearly verses as the kids are growing and in new chapters or new phases that you can incorporate in, that's just a great way to keep planning God's word in the life of the child and keep reinforcing spiritual principles. And I'm thinking of the dad or the mom listening that right now are feeling like they blew it. Maybe their kids are teenagers, maybe they're older, maybe they're even still young, but they're listening going, boy, I haven't done any of this. What do you say to them?

One, I'd say it's never too late to start. And one of the best first steps you can take with kids is to have what we've kind of bounced around a lot is a repentance talk. And so if you need to sit down with your growing or grown kids and first ask for forgiveness saying, I wish our family had been different. There are some things I wish I would have done more. And there are some things I wish I would have done at all maybe and ask for forgiveness to say, man, mom or dad didn't lead you the way we wanted.

Just ask for forgiveness and then help your kids take ownership on what you want to do going forward to say, I want to spend more time on the word together. Is there any way that you have in your mind that you think our family could do that well? Is there a time that we have in our week? Is there a meal or is there a commute or is there a kind of a cross points that our family already has where we could say, let's dedicate some of that time to the Lord?

Maybe it's our drive to or from church or maybe it's once a week could I take you out for breakfast? Somebody told me they had so many kids. They're like, how can I, with the number of kids I have, possibly get involved in each kid's life?

And one of the ideas that came from a family with a lot of kids that, again, there's so many things you could do. But they said every month on the day of the month, that's the same as their birthday day. So if they're born on the 5th of August, then it's the fifth day of every month. They spend a little extra time with that one kid. So it might be if they're older now, maybe it's they write a letter or a text to that one kid to say it's the fifth of the month. I just want you to know today's your day of the month. I'm thinking about you.

I'm praying for you. And then if they're in their home, maybe it's they stay up a little bit later with that kid, but they give that child a little bit of extra focus. And again, it's taking the time like you would in your workplace, like you would in any relationship to say, I'm going to spend a little bit of time thinking about this and planning it and giving it some intentionality. We do that with almost anything else, but we expect parenting come to us naturally. And the fact that we struggle with it, we beat ourselves up over it instead of going, hey, this is hard for everybody. The universal truth is it is really hard to be a parent. And the other universal truth is it's really hard to be a kid. And so if we can give each other some grace there to say all of us make mistakes, that's why we have a perfect savior who's so willing to forgive and calls us to something important and doesn't just say, you know what, don't even try.

Don't even bother. No, he says, no, I'm the one who's going to save kids, but I'm inviting you into how I do it. And what a grace that we could, with full encouragement and confidence, walk forward knowing that we've made so many mistakes, knowing that other people around us might judge us honestly for what we're trying to do now or what we should have done earlier. However the judgmental world wants to operate here, I can still walk forward in confidence knowing who I was does not have to be who I'm going to be. And the family the Lord's given me, even if that child is prodigal, I know that the Father loves to save people. And there's no such thing as a hopeless cause for the gospel. And so I see that over and over again in scripture that he, like the Father waiting for the prodigal, is so eager to be compassionate.

And I can be like that too as I try to imitate my Heavenly Father. I would add this as I'm listening, because we talked about the parent side. The kid side, if you're sitting, listening, thinking, boy, I never got this.

I wish I had even 10% of what I've heard today. I would say to the child, maybe you're 20, 30, maybe you're a new parent. It's time to forgive your parents. It's a hard thing to let go of that. Forgive them, you know, and become the parent.

Maybe they weren't. That's sort of my mission is like I'm going to be the dad I never had. But at some point I had to forgive my dad for failing in this area. And that was okay. And that was a step of freedom to become the man God had called me to be. Do I understand that you've got some signage, some Griffin family signage up at your house?

Yes, Bob. We have a mission statement that we've posted in the hallway of our home. And again, for some families, they'd be like, well, that's hokey. And for us, I'm like, man, my kids, two-thirds of my kids can't even read yet.

So don't even imagine that. It's not like they're walking out every day and reciting it either. But we just thought we should, in order to create a family discipleship culture in our home, we wanted to kind of summarize who we're going to be and how we make decisions as a family. So for us, one of the aspects of our mission statement that helps us make decisions is that it's to know God, to make Him known, and to honor Him in all that we do. And so if you take the bus stop, for instance, we might say, hey, there's kids meeting in front of our house. So if our job is to know God, to make Him known, and to honor Him in all that we do, what can we do? Would it be to say, not in my backyard, I'm going to call the city about this? Or would it be to say, hey, the Lord's brought these people to us. They're right in front of us.

What does it look like to make Him known? And does it honor God to bring them donuts? I would say 100% yes. Now, maybe my gluten-free brothers and sisters might not agree with that. But I would say, yes, this is what the Lord's done for us. But it also helps us decide what we're going to expose our kids to, what they're going to watch, what they'll listen to is based on, well, does it honor the Lord?

Does it honor the Lord when we do these things? I think that one simple idea of having a family mission statement and saying, what are we going to be all about as a family? You had a family mission statement, right?

Yeah, we did. And we don't have time to get into it, but it's been a discussion with our sons. It's really important for the parents to know it, not always for the kids, as long as you know. Because most parents don't even know, what are we shooting at? And that family mission statement gives it to you.

So I think there's a balance of letting them in on it and sometimes just knowing as parents, that's the goal. And it comes back to the word we talked about, intentionality, purposefulness. It's where are we going? Do we have a plan? If we're trying to drive somewhere as parents, do we know where we're trying to get to?

And to have a map and say, here's where we're going, here's what matters, this is what's going to be important to us, these are what our values are. That goes a long way for moms and dads to have family discipleship happening in your home. Adam, thank you for the time, thanks for the wisdom, and I appreciate the book and all you and Matt have poured into this for moms and dads like us to benefit from.

It's really been my pleasure, thank you. And I want to encourage our listeners, we're making Adam and Matt's book available this week. If you're able to support the Ministry of Family Life today with a donation, just ask for the book as our thank you gift to you in exchange for your support. Go to familylifetoday.com to donate or call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Make sure you let us know you'd like a copy of the book, Family Discipleship, and we're happy to send it to you. We are grateful for your ongoing support of this ministry.

In fact, we are especially grateful for that support in this particular season. David Robbins, who's the president of Family Life, is here with us, and David, it's been a challenging season for our ministry, for a lot of families. A lot of us wondering when is life going to get back to normal.

Yeah, I mean, we project and we hope, man, after the election it will be back to normal, after the year ends it will be back to normal, but what's true is this is a type of wilderness season. There's all sorts of things in the scripture around wilderness seasons and how it shapes us, and like many of you, we at Family Life, we're feeling the effects of COVID and everything going on in 2020, and many of our outreaches have been drastically shifted, but we are so grateful to our faithful financial supporters who make sure we are able to continue to produce new content that meets people right where they are and helps with the needs that are surfacing during this unique time. I got a message from a listener that was impacted by some of our COVID outreaches that we've been doing, and he said, thank you so much for all of the content your ministry is putting out during this pandemic and this unique season.

It has been such a tremendous blessing to me, helping me shepherd my two young children through this, helping me and my wife in our marriage, and helping me walk with a dear friend who is not a believer, and his father suffered through COVID and passed away. Again, this is a wilderness season for many of us, and yet God shapes us in it, and we are here for you, and we're so thankful for how our financial partners have been here for us also. Yeah, indeed we are. David, thank you for that. And I hope our listeners can be with us again tomorrow. We're going to talk about how grandparents can be more actively involved in helping to equip and disciple their grandchildren. Josh and Jen Mulvihill are going to join us for that conversation. We hope you can join us as well. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life of Little Rock, Arkansas, a crew ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.