You would think being drafted as a quarterback into the NFL meant that your life was headed in a good direction.
But it didn't take Dan Orlovsky long to recognize that although his football career was looking promising, the rest of his life wasn't. I was heading down a path of becoming everything I did not want to become when it comes to being a husband and being a dad. I was going to cheat on my wife at some point, whoever that wife was going to be.
I was going to cut my kids down and belittle them and intimidate them and kind of become this version of myself that was my greatest fear. This is Family Life Today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.
I'm Bob Lapine. You can find us online at familylifetoday.com. We're going to hear from Dan Orlovsky today and teammates John Kitna and Josh McCowan about how God did a work in all of their lives and a lot of their teammates' lives back in 2006. Stay with us.
And welcome to Family Life Today. Thanks for joining us. Does it matter to you who is in the opening game of the season, whether you like these teams or care about the teams or not? Are you just going to watch the first game of the season?
I'm talking about football, you know, which is getting started here. Does it matter what two teams are playing or will you just be there no matter what? I'll be there no matter what.
Yes, he will. Oh yeah, it's exciting. And again, I'm not the guy that sits on the couch and watches every NFL game, but I do like to watch an occasional game and I get excited. You know, you get your Diet Coke and you jump over there on the couch. And again, I'm a guy that for 33 seasons was on the sideline and never got to do this. And I didn't realize how wonderful it is to lay on a couch, watch the replays, yell at the screen.
None of that I could do. I was so surprised that you liked it because I thought, oh, this is going to be so hard for you to transition out and you're loving it. Yeah, I was never a fan. And now I'm a fan because before you're there, you can't experience what the typical fan experience is.
And I think it's fun. What about like wings or particular food that you're going to have? Pretzels?
Oh, all of it. He's a popcorn guy. Really? Yeah.
And pretzels and wings. Well, we're talking about football because football has been a big part of your life. 33 years, you were the chaplain for the Detroit Lions. You played college football at Ball State. You were a college all-star playing for Ball State. Hall of Famer. That's right.
Thank you, honey. Thanks for throwing that in. And you, in your years as chaplain, you saw God do some great things in players' lives. But we've been looking this week at the 2006-2007 season for the Detroit Lions, which was a remarkable year, a year of spiritual renewal and revival in the locker room that really centered around, as we've already heard this week, two guys who came into the team already sold out for Jesus. That's John Kitna and Josh McCown, right? And then there was a third guy who shows up who's a quarterback, and he wasn't in the same place spiritually, was he? No, and it's, you know, on a football team there's different positions, and they really spend a lot of time in those positions. So there's the quarterback room, which had a quarterback coach, John the starter, Josh the backup, and Dan the third string sort of rookies, really, in his second year. But they're spending a lot of time together.
It becomes a small group in a sense. And so Dan is watching John, who's this on-fire, strong man of God, and Josh, the same thing. And I'd never seen that in all my time in Detroit, these two quarterbacks who had not only these unique walks with God, but they also understood, we're not here just to win football games here, we're here to win a locker room to Jesus.
And so they were on mission, and Dan got to watch them, and Dan started to ask questions like, what is this faith that you guys have? Well, it's interesting, too. You may be listening to this thinking, oh, I'm not going to listen to this because it's about football.
But we all interact with people in our workplace as moms, maybe you're at school functions and watching your kids do things. We all are on a mission. It's not just football. And this story really isn't about football. This is a God story, and we had a chance recently to get these three guys together, John Kitna, Josh McCown, Dan Orlovsky, and revisit what happened in Detroit in 2006, 2007, and the transformation that was just about to take place in Dan Orlovsky's life. I want to get back to Dan's story a little bit, because Josh and John, you came to me, I think, one Saturday mid-season. Dan would know for sure, but you said, hey, man, I think if you share the gospel tonight at chapel, Dan's ready. It was before the Green Bay game.
Correct. And I was just like, wow, so that means not only are you guys praying and sharing with Dan in the locker room and in the quarterback room, but you're seeing some movement. And I shared the gospel that night, and I didn't always have an invitation at chapel, but I did. I closed it and said, hey, tonight's your night.
Give your life to Christ. I hear nothing. You guys go to meetings. I go home. Next day, I'm on the sideline. I don't know if you remember this, but Kit, you're running over to go on to the field after a punt, offense taking the field. I'm standing there. Dan's got the headset on. Josh is up there, and you literally run by me.
Kit, you remember this? You go, hey, man, ask Dan what happened last night. You run on the field, and I'm like, who is thinking about this right now in an NFL game? It's probably why we were 3 and 13.
Yeah, exactly. But I walk over to Dan during a timeout, and I'm like, dude, what happened last night? And he goes, dude, I gave my life to Christ. I'll tell you later. So, Dan, talk us through this.
What happened? Well, we got to go back in time a little bit because we talked about meeting Josh and John and then their kind of initial dive into the locker room. And so I'm watching them, and my thoughts are starting to kind of figure out, like, okay, there's something different about them. So I start to ask them questions about the way they live their life and why they live their life.
And they're both incredibly open and transparent about it all. And so I'm that annoying young player that I'm asking more non-football questions than football questions, really. And so, you know, they really both just decided to, like, start inviting me into their lives and start kind of answering the questions with actions. And Kit kind of takes me under his wing of discipleship. And I start going to Kitna's house, like, a couple times a week.
Correct me if I'm wrong. I want to say, like, 5 a.m. or something like that. And so it's 5 o'clock in the morning. I'm going to Kit's house, and he starts me off. I remember the first time we did it, he said, I want you to read First John, chapter one.
And so I'm like, all right, where's First John? You know, like, you know, so I was kind of on this journey. I didn't want to believe in Christianity strictly because, like, the quarterbacks of my team did it.
And, you know, I thought that was my way to play in the NFL for a long time. And so I asked a lot of unique and difficult questions. And I kind of really dove into this studying because I'm like you, Wilson, in many ways skeptical and try to prove people wrong type thing. And so read First John and Kitna's, you know, discipling me through it. And then he asked me, all right, now you're going to read Acts.
And so I read Acts. And so we're going on this journey month after month. Meanwhile, sprinkling in Bible study on Thursdays and the couple study me as a single person on Monday nights.
So I'm going to all these studies. Kit is discipling me one on one in the mornings. And then obviously we're with each other almost every single day. We're playing golf with each other all the time.
We're playing hoops with each other all the time. And so in many ways they were discipling me with the actual Bible. And then they were discipling me with their actions and their words in their everyday life. And so that September twenty third of 2006 is my second year. And I'm pretty into I'm on fire at this point and pretty into my discipleship and whatnot. And it's we're in chapel that night and I'm sitting somewhere in the middle of the room. And I just remember you going like, guys, I don't normally do this, but it's put in my heart that I should give someone the opportunity or anybody the opportunity to accept Christ tonight. And I remember sitting there and going.
No way. I think Wilson's talking to me, but I'm not going to say anything. So he's like, all right, you know, close your eyes and repeat after me. And I'm just looking around and no one's doing anything. And I'm repeating the prayer. But I'm like, I feel like this is strictly to me, like I'm getting this nudge in my back to actually say something. And I'm like, no one's touching me. I feel like he's talking to me.
So, you know, that is the night in the process of me giving my life to Christ. And I didn't tell anybody that night and I woke up the next morning and I remember running around the field and pregame and just having this freedom, this like weight lifted off of my shoulders, this joy. And I remember Kit coming up to me and being like, what's up with you, man? And I'll be and I was like, nothing. You know, I was like a nine year old who just got some kind of cool video game or something.
Nothing. And, you know, through a couple of minutes of conversation, you know, I told them that I'd given my life to Christ and him and Josh actually both got me this Bible. You guys probably can't see it, but yeah. Yeah, it's the archeological Bible. I'll never forget that. Yeah, you guys gave me this Bible shortly thereafter and wrote like personalized notes in it to me for brothers in Christ or born in Christ and really cool stuff.
Yeah, it's pretty cool. The other day, Dan, your text to John and Josh and I, the group text was if you had been drafted somewhere else, you don't know who you are today. What did that mean? I was heading down a path of becoming everything I did not want to become when it comes to being a husband and being a dad. I don't think I would have been bad at it, but I knew I was going to become what I didn't want to become with it. I was going to cheat on my wife at some point, whoever that wife was going to be. I was going to cut my kids down and belittle them and intimidate them and kind of become this version of myself that was my greatest fear. And when you look back at like, man, why did you get drafted by the Lions in 2005 and the weather stinks and our team stunk? And as I went through this process with you guys, with Josh and Dave, you know, what I realized was like I never went to the Lions for football. If I had gotten drafted by the Bears or the Chargers or someone else, I more than likely would have ended up being exactly what I didn't want to end up being.
But because somehow God decided to put me in Detroit and Kit in Detroit and Josh in Detroit and the Wilsons were there. It just changed my life. It changed my kids lives, changed my wife's life, and I don't know where it goes from there. But I just know if it wasn't for that, if it was to 31 other teams, I'd be a loser, dude, you know, in many ways. And it's hard for me to try to put into words on a daily basis, like how thankful I am that I went to Detroit because of that time.
I didn't become what was my biggest fear of becoming. Hearing you share your heart and God knew exactly what he was doing, obviously. He always does. But to put Josh and I there at the same time, because Dan was skeptical and Dan likes to argue and Dan likes to bring up stuff. Like before he was saved, he would he was really trying to like stump you with questions.
And I'm a black and white person, like it's just like and a lot of times that would cause Dan and I would be, you know, kind of going at each other a little bit. And Josh was always right there to kind of kind of come and soften a blow for Dan. But then also to grab me behind closed doors and say, I think you were wrong there.
And I think you're approaching is totally wrong. And like it was literally Paul and Barnabas type stuff, like watching it happen and living it. And like knowing that Josh, it's like Proverbs, a wounds from wounds from a friend can be trusted.
Like that's what he was. And he's like, dude, like and it wasn't just Dan. There was multiple guys in the locker room like that that Josh would be like, look, man, you're going to lose them.
You're saying truth, but the way you're saying it, you're going to lose them. And Josh was so good at that, that, you know, at just really making sure he had the you know, he was very in tune with the pulse of guys in the locker room and collectively and individually. And, you know, who's Josh's idea? Like, hey, let's let's carpool with Dre Bly and Dom Riola and, you know, like stuff like that. He was just unbelievable that way.
I'd never seen it. And you got to understand, I was at the end of my run, but it was just it was amazing to see how God orchestrated that. Yeah, I just think it speaks to community and why we're supposed to do life and community, because we all have different skills. And as believers, obviously we have different gifts and and those things are needed so that God can draw people to himself. And that's what for me that year, more than anything, it's just like, all right, I think some of the things that I saw in John, like I admired, like he was he was so firm on things and I was all I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings.
And, you know, I mean, and so I think those are things that I walked away from that year, like getting better at, you know, and growing as a man in that in that regard and understanding that. But there was always a need to bring it together. And it was just the combination, I think, allowed us to be able to use each other's strengths and gifts for God to amplify our gifts and glorify himself.
So, yeah, it's great to think. And I know you guys know the word so well. And John, it talks about Jesus coming in grace and truth. And that's what I watched you model. There was a truth that was firm and strong. And there was a grace. And I'm not kidding. I've rarely seen the kind of joy and laughter and acceptance that was in that locker room with you guys at the same time.
There was no compromise in the truth. But there was. That's why I said the locker room leaned toward. I mean, they're playing cards over by you guys. They didn't play the other side of the locker room.
They played by. Because joy is contagious. Joy is contagious. And they wanted to be around Josh's joy and laughter and kids truth.
And it was just the gifting of the body of Christ was so real that it drew Dan and others. And think about this. I mean, I know you know this, but the legacy of you guys. I mean, I watched you now as husbands, as fathers with your sons and daughters. And you each have an amazing wife. Each of you. Like your wives are incredible.
Yeah. And so, I mean, I would just say for Ann and I, and I don't know if we've ever said this to you privately, but we love you guys and we thank you for that year. It was in 33 seasons, one of the best, if not the best year of our lives. Watching you guys do the ministry. It wasn't our ministry. It was God's ministry through you. We called it the year of Jubilee. We called it the year of Jubilee because we ended up with a car at the end of the year, and that was pretty special too. Hey, you know, the whole time you guys were talking, I was thinking of Matthew 5.14.
Because you guys and your wives were this to the Detroit Lions that year. You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven. I don't know if I've ever seen that lived out so well as all of you, and you're still doing it. I think that's perfectly timed, Anne, because one of the most appealing things through all of it, for all of us that were part of that, was Josh and John never wavered.
In the midst of absolute darkness, when it comes to our everyday life, what we were doing with our jobs, it was a struggle. There were multiple opportunities for those guys to waver or a chink in the armor to be exposed and for it to look fake. There was never a wavering of Josh's joy. We practiced as hard as we possibly could and we lost 35 to 14 or something like that. Never a wavering with Josh's joy.
Or practice as hard as we can and we get beat by whatever. Never a wavering of Kitna's truth. It was never the circumstantial thing dependent on if we were playing good, if we were winning every game. That was, I think for so many of us, certainly for myself, that was such a defining aspect of it. That's when it was real. When everything pointed for you not to be that way, you guys were that way. It was hard to be that way, I would imagine, given the circumstances we were in. That's what was the craziest thing to me at that time was how the circumstances of what we were going through had no impact on your foundation of who you were.
The thing that, and I tell this all the time, such a part of my testimony in the Lord, which is it was literally like watching the Bible just come to life. Dan said four years, that was his four years. My two years and four games inside of that and then Josh's one year inside of that.
And the reverberation effect of what happened there. Dave, you said 25 and I think it was somewhere around 25 that one year. I was at PAO three years after that and a teammate that was in Detroit that I'd never had one conversation with comes up. I want you to baptize my wife and I. The last I counted was 39 people that got baptized because of what happened that year.
Again, it was just so fun because it was God, right? Like Dan said, four years for him, three years basically for me. Ten games. We won ten games in three years.
By all accounts, it's a complete disaster. I'm not speaking for Josh, but I'm pretty sure Josh came there and was lied to. Why he signed there. I'm almost positive. We've never even talked about that, but I'm pretty sure Josh was lied to. But God got him there somehow because God choose the foolish things to shame the wise and the weak things to shame.
He did that. Thirty-nine people are getting baptized and that's not talking about, like Dan said, his family and his wife and his kids. Now you watch what Josh is doing. It's freaking Jesus is walking in the NFL wherever Josh goes.
And I want to add this. We've talked about the legacy, but what John and Josh, you guys don't know, is when Dan goes away from the Lions, traded, and then comes back. How many years later, Dan? Was it before he came back? Five years? Six years.
Six years? Yeah, he comes back six years later and guess what he is in that locker room? He's now John and Josh.
He led like you guys led. This guy who didn't know Christ now comes back and leads a revival in a different way, in a smaller way, but in the same way hosts the Bible study at his house. And then John, you go on to coach high school football and you're impacting kids around the country and you're going to continue to do that through your own family and others. And Josh is going to play football until he's 60 and then maybe he'll coach high school football.
I don't know. But anyway, your legacy is continuing on and it's the way God designed us to do life. We are called to make a dent where we're sent. It was just, I'm telling you, it's such a, like Dave, you were like the perfect person because you just like created this space for us. Like, yeah, come to my church, you know, like preach like, and of course, Josh and I were like, absolutely, let's do it. You know, the guys are coming and in chapel, you're giving us opportunities to lead and in Bible study and in like you're giving us just incredible stuff. The real man stuff, like my whole coaching career is based on that, those four pillars of manhood. And, and you know what you meant to my wife and how we would just show up at your guys's house on Friday nights for date night and just sit on your couch. And still to this day, but the, the, the space you created, not just for us, but for, you know, how many years were you there?
50 years? I am the losing this chaplain in the history of the NFL. That's been, that's been clarified by data. People are, people are getting saved though. Can I ask all three of you guys to talk a mom with a 13 year old son who loves football and can't wait to play in the junior high games and she is scared to death of her baby. And she's reading about CTE. She's thinking this is just not where my son ought to be. Is it legitimate for them to be concerned about their kids playing football? I think it's absolutely legitimate. It's fair concern, but ironically enough, I just look at where the game has come at the highest level and how aware we are of head injury and how we're handling from safety equipment to, you know, in game itself. I think it's, we're light years ahead of where we were. And because of that, they can know that it's safe.
And I look at the wildcard game that I played in this year where Carson Wentz comes out of the game and he comes out because of a head injury. And it was just the protocol and I think everything that he went through in the steps in the process was what the league is looking for as far as being able to identify and keep the game safe. So I absolutely think the game is safe and I think there's, you know, nothing to worry about. I think there was a few years there where we were in the dark and didn't have enough information, but I think we're gathering more information and making the game safer.
So I don't think there's anything to worry about. Dan, you're on the sidelines with these guys now as a reporter for ESPN. I'm watching Bryant Gumbel on HBO Real Sports and it sounds like nobody should play football anymore.
Yeah, I mean the last thing that I ever try to confuse myself of as a doctor or, you know, someone that has any kind of history in the medical field. I know this to Josh's point of how far the league has come. I've been adamant for the last two years that the NFL changed its rulings, not necessarily to protect the players that are in the NFL right now, but to make mom and dad feel secure about their kids playing football. The NFL plays the long game as good as anybody. They know that the eight-year-old that falls in love with football is going to create more of their friends that fall in love with football and they're the 30-year-old that ends up watching it and spending money on it 22 years later.
And so, you know, I believe that that was a big part of the rule change. Listen, I think that we have to be very careful ripping away the passions of our children. You know, if my child is super passionate about something like that, I think it's more important, not necessarily the game, but who we allow our children to play the game for. The parent has to go watch the practice and watch the coach and see how the coach does things and know that coach is doing the right stuff. You know, they're teaching the right fundamentals, they're handling these situations the right way, or nope, that coach is cut from the cloth where I don't feel comfortable with the head injury situation. So I think that if the parent pays attention to the coach and has, you know, an open dialogue with the coach and watches and understands what they should be looking for, then football is an incredibly safe game where it is in 2020 and beyond. And John, you're a high school coach.
What do you think? Yeah, this is my world. And I agree 100% with what Dan just said, I did that with my own son. And, you know, he's, I think, fifth grade. And I went to practice, he'd been practicing for a couple weeks, and I went to a practice and I saw what they were doing.
I'm like, you're done. It's about the people. And now they've established these norms that if you're going to coach youth football all the way up through high school, you have to go through tackling training, the safe tackling stuff. And redefining what tackling is and how to do it. And it's not, I don't really feel like it's making the game any less attractive. It's just making it better. It's making it, you know, more palatable and guys are smarter. Things have been eliminated from the NFL on down and the way that it gets coached. Is everybody on board?
No, but it's getting there. And kids can get hurt doing anything. And I understand like, oh, well, in football, it happens more. You're probably right, but more people are playing football. And there's more opportunity that way. But I have three sons, they're all playing.
They all play quarterback. And it's just one of the inherent risks that we know. But if we see something that isn't right, you know, we put an end to it for us individually, but then also as a coach, you know, that I'm trying to train up coaches. What did you see that caused you to say, I'm pulling my kid from his fifth grade football game?
What should parents be looking for? It wasn't a game. It was practice. And it was just unsafe practices and putting unrealistic expectations on kids. Like they would run. They literally would run for 45 minutes with no water. Like that's not even football. We're not. This is not the military.
We're not here to like, you know, what are we doing? And then they would finish that and they dead tired and they'd lay them on the ground. And they would reward kids that came in heads down and crashing into it. They would reward that.
And they would ridicule the kid who shied away from that. That's not football, but it takes a while for it to trickle down. But I've watched it personally from the time that I retired, you know, eight years ago to now where it's just like Dan said, it's light years different from where it was. And it's only, I think Josh said, we're getting better and it's getting better and it's becoming a less dangerous game and a more enjoyable game. Let me ask you guys this.
You each have four kids. They've all been involved in sports. Can there ever be a time where sports, we have too many sports, too many activities in our families? Absolutely. You know, it's probably one of the main epidemics going on in our country right now. And I think it could be one of the benefits that comes out of this horrible, tragic situation that we're in with the pandemic is hopefully it forces some leaders and some parents to take a step back and be like, oh, we don't need 17 travel baseball leagues. And the parents don't have to force it upon their child to play in all these different sports and how them having the opportunity to be kids is important and them having the opportunity to breathe is important and feel valued outside of their sports is important. So, yeah, I think we have to listen.
You know, I think that's one of the great things that I've certainly learned in this, you know, pandemic as a parent is like just listening to our children. My wife is significantly better at it. You know, sometimes Tiffany, my wife, will come to me a day later and Hunter said this yesterday, and this is what it means. And I'm looking at her like, what are you talking about?
And then I'll sit there and be like, how does she know this stuff? And I just, you know, I think that like, yes, we can have too many sports. I think there's a benefit to playing in the backyard rather than having to play on the second baseball team or the third basketball team or the fifth football team. Well, we've been listening to three old friends, as you said, it's just nice to hear their voices. John Kitna, who was the starter for the Detroit Lions in 2006, who is now a high school coach in Texas. And Josh McCown, who we're not sure if he'll play this year or not.
He probably will end up playing again, like season number 18 or something. Pretty amazing. And then Dan Orlovsky, who we watch on ESPN, all three of them a part of the Detroit Lions team in 2006, 2007, when God did a really remarkable thing in their lives and a remarkable thing on that team during that season. And there is something about sport and about team and about camaraderie that comes with that, that is fertile soil for the gospel seeds to be planted and for God to do a work. Yeah, and it is pretty amazing, even now, years later, to hear Dan cry and tear up when he thinks, what if I had been on a different team? He doesn't even know if he's the man he is today, but God's providence is real in his life and it's real in your life. Which has affected, that decision to follow Jesus has affected his life and his legacy, his marriage. Everything is different because of that decision.
I mean, think about that. We sat in Hershey, Pennsylvania, a couple years ago with Dan and Tiffany having dinner Saturday night at a weekend to remember. Their second weekend to remember. That they drove over to and all that started because he was a Detroit Lion and now he's impacting, and John is, and Josh, and their families.
It's really a picture of how God works and wants to not just do something in us, but through us to impact the neighborhoods he puts us in. If you know somebody who's an NFL fan or a Detroit Lions fan, you ought to go to our website familylifetoday.com and send them a link to the podcasts we've done of these programs. Again, we've been able to include additional content as a part of the podcast that we could not feature on air. So go to familylifetoday.com, download the podcasts. All of our programs are available for free at familylifetoday.com. Anytime there's a subject that you're wondering, I wonder if they have anything to offer on improving communication in marriage or conflict resolution or what do you do if you have a wayward child or what about anxiety or depression, any of these subjects. You can go to familylifetoday.com and download podcasts of past programs on these subjects.
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1-800-FL-TODAY is the number. And thanks in advance for your support of this ministry. We appreciate you. Now tomorrow we're going to talk about the profound power of a gentle answer in the face of escalating heated rhetoric.
And there's a lot of that going on these days in marriages and in families and in the culture in general. Pastor Scott Sauls is going to join us tomorrow. I hope you can be with us as well. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life of Little Rock, Arkansas. A crew ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.
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