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Telling The Whole Truth

Family Life Today / Dave & Ann Wilson, Bob Lepine
The Truth Network Radio
September 18, 2020 2:00 am

Telling The Whole Truth

Family Life Today / Dave & Ann Wilson, Bob Lepine

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September 18, 2020 2:00 am

Ryan and Selena Frederick, authors of the book, "See Through Marriage," join Dave and Ann Wilson to discuss transparency in marriage. Not every conversation in marriage needs to be deep, but according to the Fredericks, making a habit of always floating above the truth will backfire. Real honesty always requires meaningful risk. Ryan explains the career and parenting sacrifices he and Selena have made to pursue a marriage where they are "fully known and fully loved."

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One of the reasons we get married is because there's a longing in each one of us to be fully known and fully loved being fully known, can be scary to peers. Ryan Frederick whatever level of fear we feel about being exposed to our spouse. Imagine if we held with true regard to the holiness and majesty of God, and the fact that we are exposed to him so this verse is compelling believers to say with confidence draw near to the throne. Why not because you're worthy not because you earned it, but it's through grace that we may receive mercy and find grace and help in our time of need, so that same kind of grace is available in our marriage we can trust that God is in use our spouse to bring us further along in our walk for sanctification. This is family like today. Our hosts are David and Wilson on Bob Lapine. You can find us how can a husband and wife create a marriage where they can draw near to each other in confidence that they will be well loved, even when their spouse sees their shadow side talk more about that today with Brian and Selena, Frederick, stay with us and welcome to family life to. Thanks for joining us. If a wife asks her husband so elegantly, Bob Cubero, look over there, and both of you could weigh in on visible wife says to her husband.

So how are you really, how are you I do ask display last yes me that all the dye that is the question on date night and will and what is the most common answer a wife is going get from her husband.

Fine, I'm fine. They said sometimes Jos I don't know. I think this and what is that your dream looking forward you asked that question I want to know so my scar Dave. I want to know what he's been thinking about what he's dreaming about what he's struggling with.

This is what I'm longing for and Dave how are you I just don't have a good steak, like really just got in the evening because I mean I know what she's longing for. Now, after 40 years, but initially I would think if we gotta talk about it there's a problem if you don't talk about everything's good and I want everything to be good but I've learned to share you know and and she is help me because I was not getting. I don't know I think I'm good. I really don't know and she probe and asking that I realize now it was helpful to talk to through interesting with our kids are kids. If told Dave they long for him to ask them when you don't have to go that got some friends joining us who are now thinking about their next book which is see-through parenting. We got right and Selena Frederick joining us again on family like today guys, welcome back. Thanks.

Ravenous. Ryan and Selena are the authors of a new book called see-through marriage. They are bloggers they are lighters they live in the Pacific Northwest. They been on family life to a with us before see-through marriage is about what and is longing for on her dates with Dave which is this tell me everything about you and let me see the real you, and that the full you and what you guys are suggesting, and in the book is all of us really do want to be known and loved sob and yet most of us spend a lot of time in our marriage, trying to keep parts of who we are walled off and and hidden from one another. We got figure out how we break through those barriers so that we can have the kind of naked and unashamed marriage that Genesis 2 describes an and one of the things you say in the book is that in order to have a see-through marriage. We need to first of all, be able to go a little deeper in our self understanding. Then Dave is typically able to do what we gotta be able to look and say how are we and come up with a better answer than I think I'm fine them and now were done right so absolutely funny that he says that we want to go that deep right there so I could stay back letting there's some truth and beauty and that we can just enjoy each other like not every date night has to be this deep like probing of your inner child or likelihood of finding out what your inner pains are but of the signal we get in the habit of kind of living kind of floating above everything.

I think it is so important. I mean Andy Crouch execute this term.

The term is meaningful risk and being known in the way that lets your spouse in this case you talk about marriage relationships is also could happen and just any friendship what what the Lord lays on your heart to tell me sexing in a generate change in my own heart that's meaningful risk right and so I think yeah that's that. That is the calling of a biblical marriage and that's what see-through marriage is all about kids holding kids six for almost a year.

Okay, some people are thinking have no time for these discussions, and lifestyle right now in your busy year tax your kids are demanding, you're not sleeping how you have these deep conversations in the midst of that kind of lifestyle. Selena will she said no it's it's hard to know.

I think it's important I think. I think it's one of those nonnegotiable is right right unfortunately sometimes yes you have to negotiate sleep right that connecting with your spouse and being honest and having a rhythm that you go to like either fix once a week at least I would say once a week.

We just have to see it as valuable and if you don't then we can't be wondering why were not connecting wise our marriage feel like it's where distant or crumbling on self or that it's something you have to fight for for Sharon because if when I get anything else.

And if mom and dad aren't better than house arrest the house and eating a whole and the other obviously just sorta gave us a window in your life but you got a little kid, so it's crazy. You get a vibrant ministry so your work is all-consuming and a lot of it. Sell your house I'm guessing right every bit of it while you about every bit of it. So how in the world as a couple live in your life. Make marriage and being transparent.

Yeah a priority. Obviously, the date is important, as are other things you guys do is a rhythm that can help couples exit Outlook speak of this little bit because I so often we approach our work in our work lives or careers is almost like fixed objects in all of in this conversation right site were technically self-employed, you know it's we set our own hours. This uniqueness there, but I will say work has taken a backseat almost daily in at least three or four times a week.

There are initiatives that just aren't done because I'm just that I'm not willing to pay this price.

I'm not willing to be away from you, not willing to be away from our kids.

I'm not willing to spend the time it takes to get the things that so a lot of times in American culture.

In particular, we have to fitted around her career, but I just want to kill that sacred cow and say like maybe careers not the end-all be-all of our existence right, aside from that, just kind of speaking to that point. Mornings of become, rhythm and terms we tightly try to have morning coffee. Or we can sit and we me to breakfast with our girls but then they go and get kind of know their hair brush their teeth brushed and get dressed.

Everyone but the infant and then we sit in the, rule is like, you can be here.

You can't talk.

As were talking.

This is important to us.

Your mom and dad. We need to connect so that we can love you well and another couple that Jacobs has allowed back and they said that nine kids. They said that the one thing that they laughed and just respected and were so grateful for the boundary of that like coffee time that their parents hadn't said like you can be here, but where having this time and said that setting that boundary. I think for your kids is a loving rate setting boundaries for your marriage is levying it's I think it's a call to holiness in some levels of discipline.

I feel like it so much of a priority for us, that we can't do without funky yeah. And like you are saying is like some just as up right and we can't see straight.

We need to connect we start treating each other poorly. So you take a little time every day to touch base at least that's kind of what you're saying. Perfectly, I too was on the morning minutes in the evening.

Yeah, you know will will sit in please usually bring the book in the evening and talk through it and some conversations go great summer terrible how tired I one night she's trying to read you something now just like no fence labs don't care about that right now you got really upset and I do apologize good you are ready to hear that. So we learn you know I I'm thinking about listeners who are hearing us talk about the value of transparency and marriage, and their thinking back on past relationships, their thinking back on stuff from their teenage years and they're going I don't think it's going to help my relationship if I sit down with my husband tonight and say you have ever really shared with you about this but let me tell you about this guy I dated when I was a junior in high school is like do I really need to find it just be transparent about everything in order for us to have the kind of marriage were supposed to have a really good question because of the tendency is to, as you hear what were talking about to come and go through the litany of like sins that you create are things you regret are things that you did before you were saved, and was a hard and fast rule for this, but generally will relieve couples only asks the question is, whatever that thing is that is creating you to come and go into your whole right or to hide one another or whatever that thing is a screen dysfunction like if you had a past relationship that was really abusive and it's made you fearful in every relationship sense and you're afraid of your husband, your wife. Because of that past experience you never really been healed from that is that's a good opportunity to really be known and an experience love in that pain area of your life and experience healing.

Again, going back to first on one so that we can have fellowship and being cleansed from unrighteousness.

Not that feeling pain is unrighteousness necessarily, but it's that that fellowship that will help us walk through and and really we use the word gospel is a verb, sometimes in our marriage the gospel each other and that we were feeling kind of that lack of belief that we remind each other who Christ is and everything that he's done so to answer your question about I don't know you have to just create a laundry list and go through the whole thing but I do think there are areas that you will know the Holy Spirit will prompt you to share for the sake of greater some repetition.

Sometimes that happens like sometimes things will come to mind, and it filters through but if he said with your experience things kind of kept coming back to let any kind you see it coming back again and again in your site. It's really and it's again creating as patterns of sort of like you need to hire these feelings of being afraid. Then I say it's probably a safe bet that you need to address at a point that we can over share go into too many details yet.

We call that rehashing the crime scene right to go back to this example.

But you know men or women who deal with pornography addiction. There is a there's a certain level, that is just be stopped being appropriate and constructive to share alike. This is the nature of the addiction.

Or here's the message is not edifying in any way, nor does it help you get to a place of greater reconciliation.

It just kind of begins to hurt even more so again, nothing replaces discernment in these conversations and if a couple is doing something that's so kind of damaging and does continue to create pain that I would highly recommend getting a counselor or pastor involved so you're not walking through the loan. What you say to a couple that score the guy or the gal who's just gripped with fear. You know their sense and as you said boy I need to tell her I need to tell him I feel like God is prompting me to bring this in the light but I'm just of stock so afraid I don't know how to do or what to do what it what you tell the answer I think is simple but is not easy. Were called to live in faith, not in fear, and to live in wisdom, not an foolishness. And so I think if it's something that you know is can be devastating. That to me is more of an indication of the fact that you need help getting through it, then maybe that you need not try to go through so if that be the case if your husband who's been you know, had an affair or a wife is having affair then I would start by getting biblical counseling on how to go about starting down the path of reconciliation, not not to started on the path of of just exposing its own sake. I'm thinking about a guest we had a while back on family life today who had been unfaithful toward his spouse early in their marriage and she'd never known. And it was years later and she still didn't know but he was feeling conviction about it. He was still aware of it. I mean, he could not be with his wife in any sense without it coming into his mind and plaguing him that the accuser of the brethren coming back and saying you're not being honest. He felt like he eventually had to come clean with this. In order for their marriage to become what God wanted to be. Otherwise he was being a hypocrite every time he was being transparent with her because he wasn't being transparent with her and and this is where I think people gotta recognize to your point, you may have it covered up and polished up and nobody sees what's going on but God knows and the Holy Spirit knows and if the Holy Spirit keeps bringing it back to your mind and heart, then it's time to confess first to God and then with some help, confess to your spouse.

This is where I think of James five where it says, confess your sins one to another, that you may be healed and you think will nobody knows.

So it's not hurting anybody how God knows and and you know and it still still there. That's right you mentioned James just before that Hebrews read this verse that a lot of Christians will gnosis for the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and spirit, joints and marrow, discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart focus were all very familiar with that passage, God's word is powerful when it goes on the next purchases and no creatures hidden from his site, but we are all naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give an account goes on for since you have a great high priest who is passed through heaven Gomez versus Galveston could use the sun God, let us hold fast to our confession. Let us then go down a few verses. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy find grace to help in the time of need. Right. So we are gripped with fear me think about whatever level of fear. We feel about being exposed to our spouse.

Imagine if we held with true regard to the holiness and majesty of God, and the fact that we are at risk of being and we are exposed to him even more than we know. We could be exposed to him.

So this verse is compelling believers to say with confidence draw near to the throne. Why not because you're worthy not because you earned it, but it's through grace that we may receive mercy and find grace and help in our time of need.

And so that same kind of grace is available, but they like your same and that vertical relationship with Jesus we see that play out in the horizontal relationship in our marriage we can trust the God use our spouse as the helpmate that they are to bring us further along in our in our walk toward sanctification. You have also found and I know you guys write about it in the book the value of friendships to help us. The vulnerable, not only with our friends course. Hopefully I have. I have met in my life and has limited arrived, but there been times where I've been so honest with my guys that they looked at me and said you need to tell and and so that community. It's almost like they became counselors. Iron sharpens iron.

Talk about that because that's a couple chapters in your book the value that the need to live in community and how that helps the center transparency survey. I think that a lot of times, at least in our experience, I think we had not really lived in true community. The first two years of our marriage so we did not have people who kind of new Leslie and have people who were asking hard questions that also walking with us and encouraging and kindness sharpening us like he said see you have these conversations to go into the fire and to not be afraid right and to share what the Lord has put on our hearts because our view of God was not, at least for me it was easy to see him wise like a punisher right or someone his if you say that as well as the consequences right and so yes we do experience the consequence of sin that doesn't leave us that he didn't believe the sin like that he sanctifies us the best way that we learn that and how he does that is has been through our community. Our relationships with other godly men and women and men twice. I'm laughing because as I remember writing this part of the book and we had a bit of a burger in our saddle as we experience only versions of of quote on quote Christian community and and so much of it felt kind of contrived. It felt like throwing one of the bus Cliff like that's a cultural thing right subtly talk about meaningful risk and what it means to have false vulnerability versus meaningful risk.

So this is especially good in Christian communities, especially men talking to men. Or if you're in a large group with couples talking to couples when Dave mentions sharing something with your guy buddies are like all right that's intense you need to go tell and you tell your wife so that she can walk through this with you so we have to have a look at the table in the book that I just on so elucidating in my own life and it kind of contrasts false vulnerability with meaningful risk it in a falsely vulnerable setting you might go around the group in your all sharing you how to do in life. What was God doing in your life and someone might say all men work is been stressful on than the group respond almost pray that you're not stressed. Let's pray that you will get better. Lets it, but the contrast of that sets the false vulnerability meaningful risk side is listen. Worse, works in stressful afraid to lose my job because what because of that I've underperformed her because I was late on this deadline or because my sales numbers are way down or the kids are learning in the classroom to be teaching them, you know, and so what that gives us actual window and take that example into any context that you want like it was the window actually say okay will what's address that fear.

Why are you afraid you lose her job.

Well, okay, why have you underperformed or meaningful risk versus just kind of sharing just enough to come and get past the Q&A so they go the next couple in the group.

That's the essence of the Christian communities actually having a forum to say listen to the the playing field has been leveled call center said by grace now. Here's how we construct each other like you said somebody has to take initiative to do that at times I know that with a group of friends. We are having lunch and I love these women and we are talking about the typical things of kids in school and closing on different things and can be pretty passionate because I love to go deep for all wired in such a different way. So I rudely interrupted conversation and I say, can we start talking about nothingness with all of that some people are totally offended that I don't want to talk about this sometimes to go deeper.

I know what you're afraid of right now what you're worrying about the most right now and how your marriages are so I can be like a ball sometime grout discharge in and I've tried to learn how to do that more tactfully and yet I think sometimes in marriage.

One of us friendships when honest needs to take that step saying I'm going to stick a little deeper. How do you feel about that. Are you afraid are you into this with me. When you go there with me and maybe it's just one friend I think it's really important to do that in our marriage.

What are some of the steps we can take in a relationship when one spouse hasn't gone there and won't go there. Well this is far as the steps go. I think finding again that identity in Christ and realizing that he is more glorified the more transparent that we are right if our whole existence is for God's glory which we believe it is, and we actually believe that on a radical level, things radical nowadays that I exist for the glory of God that I think I can become the foundation for us to begin initiating those conversations where those conversations may not feel welcome. We mentioned first John one want to go to John chapter 1 verse five says the light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome it right so this is again introducing Jesus into the equation and this is, there was a man sent from God's name was John's John the Baptist came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. John goes to the pain of explaining this. He says he was not the light but came to bear witness about the light. So on the cover of our book. It's copies of the stained-glass window in one of the analogies we reuse throughout the entire book is that we are always imperfect shards of glass right with rough edges. We have different shades of color we have different varying levels of intensity in terms of pigment like world different right and there's a stained-glass window is only beautiful, to the extent that light shines through it and so that gives us the whole context that I can now glorify God even more and like you're saying those kind of chitchatting conversations or same.

Let's go deeper friends. Not so that we can just get the juicier details let's go deeper so that we can greater glorify our Creator.

The one who is the light and going deeper.

I think the motivation is to have a greater glory for God.

In that instance so you asked the question how diminishing those conversations. I think starting their is the best place to start and then from Mary's coming go W Bona china cabinet bring it up in a way that hopefully would be be conducive to conversation and I would add you know as a dad I know it's been difficult to do that with my adult sons. It takes courage to say I will know your heart and I think one of the first steps I've learned to do is share my heart you know transparency sorta begets transparency and absolutely even in a small group of nones transparent, or by just fix it and I go home.

It almost many people hide more church than anywhere else. But if somebody's vulnerable and transparent cycle. I can be that honest, and be fully known and fully love that I feel as a parent I would encourage dads and moms that really go there. This could be a time to say okay I really want to know my teenage daughter.

Her son, and I've never had the courage to speak transparently with them and I want to spy don't just want to see through marriage of a see-through family. So I believe there you known some encouragement. Don't do it lead and see what she would get this alone what you said.

Transparency begets transparency.

Absolutely that's true, but just a bit. It diffuses that tension. There are enough people feel comfortable and vulnerable. Now I rang Ray and I deftly think like prayers is an obvious one ranting pain pierced in their hearts and what they said about just courage.

I would add consistency is so easy to just get shot down right I can eat really easy to kinda fall at your side tried and it just felt horrible so I don't ever want to know. Keep trying. Remember, your identity is rooted in Christ, he is enough. Keep trying keep going because the consistency I think is is where the softening happens. Even though we may not see it in our spouse. Right now it is still faithful. I think a lot of us look at the current state of our marriage and go you know it's okay and I don't want to do anything that would make it more challenging. I'm happy with this level of transparency on this level of intimacy will just live here and I know there are things that if I shared him maybe but but maybe not try to maybe we can go deeper in making that oh yeah, or maybe we'll just stay here and and just keep going and I think what we want our listeners to your assailant is. It is worth it to brisket and to go deeper and to be open and decide this is hard, and this is vulnerable and I'm not comfortable, even sharing some of this reality of who I am with you, but I'm gonna believe that will have a better marriage, stronger, deeper, more committed a more loving marriage.1 of the things the Bible says is love rejoices in the truth, and as long as there's not a truce between you as long as there's not this kind of transparency and vulnerability. There's part of the love that is missing from your marriage. Guys, this is been really helpful. Thanks for time to be with the central being on family life to absolutely ravenous well and I hope our listeners will go to our website family like to get a copy of your book see-through marriage experiencing the freedom and joy of being fully known and fully loved by Ryan and Selena Frederick again. Our website family life to You can order the book from us online or call to order one 800, FL, today is our number one 803 586-329-1800 F as in family L as in life, and then the word today. By the way, working to continue our conversation with Ryan and Selena.

We will talk about transparency when it comes to sexual intimacy and marriage. So that'll happen online, you can go to family life and that conversations available as a podcast. You can download it and listen as we talk about what it looks like to cultivate transparency when it comes to sexual intimacy.

Finally, a quick word of thanks today to those of you who have made today's program possible. We have a small committed group of regular listeners who have taken the next step and said I want to make sure family life to continues to be available in my community not only for me and from my relationship with my spouse or my family but I will make sure it's here to help others grow in godliness in marriage and in family every time you make a donation.

That's what you're doing your investing in the lives of other men and women, husbands and wives, moms and dads helping them grow more Christlike in their marriage relationship and in their parenting, so thanks to those of you who have made today's program possible. If you're a longtime listener and you've never donated today would be a great day for you to go to family like make an online donation or call one 800 FL today to donate would like to say thank you for your support today by sending you a copy of Phil Waldrep's book beyond betrayal. We talked with Phil earlier this week about how we deal with betrayal in a relationship with her to marriage relationship for someone outside of our family. That book is our gift to you today when you make an online donation or call one 800 FL today to donate to the ongoing ministry of family life to we hope to hear from you and we hope you have a great weekend. Hope you and your family are able in some form or fashion to worship together with your local church this weekend. Hope you can join us on Monday when you talk about how important a dad is a family Brian Moritz has some things to say about that is just written a book on the dad difference talk to Brian on Monday.

Hope you can join us think our engineer today. Keith Lynch along with our entire broadcast production team on behalf of our hosts David and Wilson on Bob Lapine see you back Monday for another edition of family life today family like to use the production of family life of Little Rock, Arkansas. Accrue ministry help for today hope for tomorrow

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