Hey, before we get started today, I've got to read you a comment that came in from one of our listeners. She said, I realized listening today that it was shame that I've been feeling my whole life.
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I said, that's for me, I'm already loved. I'm telling you, it's when people are impacted like that, that that makes me cry because that's our hope that people will meet Jesus and be helped. I mean, that's why we do what we do. I think that's what all of us want. We want to make a difference. We want to leave a mark.
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So let's just jump in together today. So as a mom, what would you say if you can remember was your biggest source of stress when we were raising our boys? Think actually any stage you want. I was going to say each stage had its own degree of stress. You know, like when they were little, will they stay alive?
Can I keep them alive? As they get older with teenagers, like what trouble could they get into or what are they doing? As they get older, like who are they going to marry? And so do you see what I mean?
Like every single stage has a different degree of stress and things you worry about. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.
You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today. Do dads not?
No. Do you never worry about our kids now? Again, I'm just one dad. I can't speak for other dads, but I talk to a lot of guys and they seem to be somewhat- Okay, I'm going to look into our studio. We got two dads in there.
It's two dads. Do you guys worry about your kids? Like 24-7. No. No? No, Jim's laughing over there. Oh, Jim does. I actually do. Jim does. I actually do. Okay, so maybe it's kind of everybody's different.
I mean, some of it's personality. Some of it's scary, but I don't think I've ever met a mom that doesn't carry it almost nonstop. So I thought it might be interesting since not every day do we have two moms in the Family Life Today studio and one dad to ask you two some questions related to we have Maggie Combs back with us again. Thank you for being back on Family Life Today.
Thanks for having me. Yeah, this is a great discussion about motherhood really from your book Motherhood Without All the Rules, which is fascinating. And it's also interesting. I have two moms of just boys. You're in two different stages and I think there's a lot of wisdom in the room. We've got a seasoned mom and a younger mom and I think not only can parents learn a lot, but moms can learn from you guys.
Thanks. And Maggie has not only written this book, which the subtitle is Trading Stressful Standards for Gospel Truths. Maggie, you wrote a book when you were right at the beginning of mothering called Unsuper Mommy. Did you come up with that title? I did.
That's good. So what happened is I put up a picture of me and my three boys and I probably have like a two month old or something and a 15 month old and a three year old and someone wrote on it, super mom. And I was like, oh. That what you were going for. I cannot bear the burden of that title.
If they could only see my house right now and my children right now, they would know I am not a super mom. You're just trying to survive. Yeah. And so the goal of that book was to help women throw off some of that expectation that really we've got nine months to set up expectations for ourselves. Exactly. Nine months to build up those expectations in our head.
And it only takes a couple months to knock them all to the floor. But you're also a writer. And you know, it's a little unknown fact is you live on a hobby farm. What is a hobby farm? I feel like the fancy term nowadays is homestead, but I don't do any of the homesteading stuff really. Are you Anne Voskamp second?
Not at all. I'm probably the antithesis of that. It's like, how can we do this with as minimal work for me as possible? So that's how I grew up. My parents have some acreage outside of the suburbs and I grew up there. We had cows and horses and then we found out we're pregnant with our third boy and we were like, get us to the farm. And so... Close to your parents. Close to the parents.
So we built a house right next door to my parents and we share the land with them. And then we added to the livestock fainting goats. What? Wait, I love these things. Have you ever like...
Yes. Next time you are like having a really bad day, go onto YouTube and type in fainting goats. I have totally done this.
You're welcome. They're so funny. Do you have goats that faint? Yes. Like all the time?
How does this work? When they are scared or excited, they faint. They just fall over or...
I've made up my own terms. Sometimes it's like they don't fully fall over. They just get leg locked. Their legs are all straight like this and they have to walk. I can't even show, obviously.
This is not visual, medium, but... This is a boy's paradise when they get scared. So how old were your boys when you got your fainting goats?
I think four, five, and seven. They're very gentle with them, but my middle son loves animals and he makes a pet of every time we have goat babies are literally the cutest animals of all time. They jump up in the air and do fancy twists and they're just so joyful. But my son always takes one to make it his and he takes it down the slide with him and then carries it all over and then one day we sell it. Oh. Talk about hard life lessons, right? Traumatized. Yeah. It's so funny. Well, let me ask some questions to you, moms. Several of these you cover in probably both books, but I know definitely in this latest one, The Motherhood Without All the Rules, you know, even when you talk about a farm, it sounds like, oh, that's a great escape for some people.
If you live there, there's a myth that you say, what do you call it? Standard. Stressful. Standard of moms deserve an escape. You deserve this. You've earned this.
Is that true? We actually, we tell ourselves we need it. Like we can't go on until we have had this escape and we set it up as the most important thing. And sometimes it is like a piece of chocolate in the pantry. And sometimes- That sounds good.
Right? I actually like start a whole thing in the pandemic that was like pandemic pantry chats where I shut myself in the pantry because that was the only place I could be alone. And sometimes it's as little as that or it's the next trip that we're planning or it's like a bubble bath and all of these things are good things. The problem is when we elevate them to a need because God actually tells us that he supplies all that we need and that he is the one who feeds us and cares for us like he feeds the sparrows and the birds of the air. And so we tell ourselves that we need these things.
And then when we need something, we are willing to fight to get it. And so a lot of times I hear moms say all the time, I say all the time, I never thought I'd be an angry mom. Why am I an angry mom?
Well, it's these kids keep getting in the way of what I've told myself that I need to survive. And then they start taking that little piece of comfort away from me and suddenly I'm just a flash point of anger and I yell at them and then I feel the shame and oh, why did I do that? It's because I had elevated this need up to the point where it was more important than my need for God. And I put it on the throne of my life and that little need was ruling everything for me. You know what else we do with that need is we look at our husbands if we're married and we think they get all their needs met and we begin comparing our lives compared to them.
I've never heard that. And then we think like, oh, if I don't get what I deserve, my escape, then I'm mad not only at my life, but at my husband, at the circumstances and at my children. And it seems like, wait, what? It doesn't seem like it's a bad thing because to say you need an escape, that's not a bad thing because that can be true and we all need that at times. But you're saying we kind of elevate it to the point where it's our savior.
Yeah. And then we create these things that aren't actually meeting the need that we really do have. And that might be actually some fellowship with women that will point us to Christ, but it's soul care kinds of things. We're so focused on self-care, our external needs. That's a big word right now too, self-care. That we totally neglect soul care. And I've heard self-care people describe it as like, well, you got to put your oxygen mask on yourself first if the plane is going down.
I've heard that too. But a lot of times the mask we're putting on has no oxygen coming from it because the things that we're using are oxygen providers. God is the breath of life.
He gives us oxygen. And no, that doesn't mean that like always then every time it's running, got to have my nose deep in my Bible, which is great, but it can be just changing our motive instead of a self-focused thing that's like, I need this so I'm going to take it. I'm going to get it, can say, oh, I am weak. I have physical limitations as a woman. So I'm going to look at my day and see God has made me physically limited and I need to take a nap now to be able to do what he's asked me to do today.
And it's just a change in our attitudes and it's a focus from ourself to looking up to God and saying, man, I am not God. I can't do everything. Moms can't do everything.
We can't be super moms. But that's embracing the weakness and connecting to God to empower us. Part of that is meeting our physical needs with an attitude of, wow, thank you for giving me the opportunity to meet that physical need. Wait, it reminds me of the woman at the well in John 4. She thought her need, she could have said, my need is for a man that would love me.
I've had five and no one has loved me. And God is saying, no, that's not what you need. That's not your escape because we're all looking for ways to escape. He was saying, I am the living water. If you drink of me, you'll have streams of living water. And that's what you mean, Maggie. He is the oxygen. He's the one that fills us up and meets those needs. All right. So that brings up another topic that I think I'll give you a shot at talking to the men, talking to the husbands, talking to the dads. What do you need from us?
Ooh, that's a good question. Tell the men, or just tell your own man, but I mean, what do moms long for their husbands to do to help them? I think what most moms, I know I, but I feel like listening to my friends talk to, we just want our husbands to see us, to recognize that it is really hard work. That maybe motherhood sometimes asks more from us than fatherhood asks from them emotionally, because we are always thinking about our children like we talked about. And just that recognition of like, Hey, I see that you've been working really hard lately goes such a long way. And then the recognition also of like, I see that this has been really hard, but I see that God is working in your life and changing our encouragement to being based upon God's work in their life instead of everything that you're accomplishing. Because then sometimes we can get it all flipped around in our head and be like, well, then if I don't accomplish it, then you won't think good of me or something. So just seeing her, recognizing, and then pointing her to Jesus too, just like we're talking about good friends do.
I would add to that too. I agree with all of that, Maggie, in this part of like seeing us. I think Dave, you would do this sometimes, but I had to ask you to do it of just asking to ask me how I'm doing.
That's really big. That's part of feeling like, oh, you hear me and you're interested in my life, which now feels super boring and monotonous. Like, oh, who wants to hear about this? I'm bored with myself. And so when you had asked me, how are you doing?
Like, really? I think you were afraid to do that because if you asked that I would say, well, I would be doing a lot better if you would dot, dot, dot. But I think for us as women, just to have been asked that question feels like you're entering into our world. And the other thing, I feel like you were good at this.
You would tell me specifically what you were inspired by in my life. One time you said, I love that you're always bringing scripture or you're praying in the car. Like, I love how you're bringing God into the boy's daily life and into your life.
And I remember thinking like, what? Wait, am I doing something that someone noticed and you've saw it? Because the kids don't know. They don't see it. They're not saying, oh, thanks mom for feeding me again.
You know, they may once in a while, but for a spouse to recognize and point specifically to something we've done well of sharing Jesus, that is like a breath of fresh air to our souls. Yeah. I remember also thinking, at least you told me this and I think you probably both agree that you also want us to help. I was just thinking, I was like, those were great answers, but also like if you just want something really real being like, hey, why don't you take Saturday morning to go do what you want and I'll watch the kids.
Yes. There was something about Dave taking the boys out and I was in the house by myself was like the most amazing gift. If you vacuumed, I'm like, are you kidding? This is like Christmas today. I remember one time, and again, it could be taking them out and we did the boys day out, which I would take all three boys for half the day once a month. And that was like a big deal and they loved it and it gave her a break.
But you talk about selfish. I remember one time, do you remember this? Yeah. Saturday afternoon, getting lunch, getting them, sit in a high chair, the whole thing. It was just their little boys. It's chaos. You got the whole table set up and I go over, get myself some ice, get an iced tea, pour it, come down, sit down. I'll never forget this. Ann's here.
All three boys are there. It's chaos. And I say to her, Hey, you know, I'm preaching on selfishness tomorrow.
I need a good illustration. And she goes, seriously? Do you see what you just did?
I'm like, what? She goes, you know, you're serious right now. I go, what would I do? She goes, you went over and got yourself a drink. You never got anybody else to drink. I got all three boys drinks. I got myself a drink. I go, you want an illustration? You're the illustration. Did you use it? Yeah. I would always use those. Because I was like, how am I that blind?
And I was. You know what gets me about when my husband takes my boys out? He'll take them to like a fast food restaurant.
Every single time, does not fail. Somebody comes up to them and him and says, wow, your boys are so good. You must be a really good dad. And this is like, isn't this amazing?
You have all of them out. We all love the world. We can say this to moms. Even if the kids are a mess for her and they're really great for dad, we can say it to moms. Yes.
It's so true. Okay. I got a whole different topic, which would be interesting to hear a mother with a 10 year old and a mom with grandkids, prodigals. As a mom, if your son or daughter walks away from the faith, teenage years or beyond, what do you do? How do you struggle with that?
How's that navigated as a mom? So I had to, when I talked about this, my book, I had to go to a mentor mom of mine to talk to her a little bit because I can see it only from my perspective right now, early in life. But I'll tell you, I think there's an identity thing in there. I mean, obviously there's like a really true, beautiful thing. We want our kids to know Jesus.
Of course. There's also an identity thing because we feel like we've worked so hard to be a mom and what is like the A plus on the report card of godly motherhood if not your kids grow up to follow Jesus. And it can be like, if that doesn't happen, then probably I wasted my whole life. And I'm a bad mom.
We get really dramatic in our heads, right? So all moms, this is just a constant fear across every season is like, what happens if this happens? So I talked to a friend of mine who experienced that and she said, you know, the only thing I could do was just say, is Jesus even better than this? Even if my daughter never comes back to the Lord after wandering away, like, am I going to believe that Jesus is still good and that he is still better, that he is my treasure even beyond the treasure of my children.
And I pray that I don't have to face that head on, but I also know that I can work now to make a daily practice of when that fear comes, asking myself that question now, so that if one day down the road I have to face a prodigal child, then I will have made a practice. I did Taekwondo with my boys. Yes, you did. Way to go.
Look at you go. That is not something I ever planned to do in my life. How did we get from prodigal to Taekwondo?
This is going to be interesting. So I did Taekwondo with my boys. I wasn't going to do it. I signed them up for it and it was like a family Taekwondo though. My youngest would not do it without me.
Crazy the things moms do. I'm not an athletic person. I was like, oh, okay. So I started doing Taekwondo and the Taekwondo instructor would yell these things at us. And one of the things he'd yell was practice makes, and everybody would yell perfect. And he would stop us and say, no, practice makes habits. And so if you are a mom where your kids are still young and you're facing that fear, we can make a habit right now of believing the truth of God's word, that God is still good in every circumstance, that he is sovereign, that it's not something that we did that created this problem with our child. He is sovereign over our lives and he is sovereign over theirs and that we can entrust them to him.
And if not, he is still better. I would agree with all of that. That's beautifully said. And I think there comes a practice and a habit of surrendering your kids every day at the cross.
And that's not an easy thing to do. I think too, that fear grips moms more than anything else if we allow it to, because we could be overwhelmed with fear every day of circumstances of life, the culture that our kids are being raised in, the things that are going on. Like we can project so much fear into the future. And I think every single day of that surrender and we picture giving Jesus our kids, sometimes I'll wake up in the middle of the night.
I've told you this not too long ago. I can wake up in the middle of the night and I have all adult children and I think, are their marriages okay? I'm going through all this stuff.
Are they struggling with anything? And in order to go back to sleep, I have to picture myself standing with Jesus and I push our kids, our sons back to Jesus. And I have to say, but Lord, you love them more than I do. You see them more than I do. You can take care of them more than I ever could.
And my worry isn't going to amount to anything that will be helpful. So I hand them to you, a good and loving father, and they're yours and I'm going to trust you. And sometimes bad things still happen, but God, the gospel of the truth of Jesus is bigger than that.
And that's hard to live out. It has to become, I like what you said, Maggie, a habit of that total surrender every day. Yeah. I think, um, yeah, it's been fun to ask two moms. Hey, I really liked your question about the dads.
Way to go. What can dads do? Well, I was thinking, and if he isn't, the wife's going to tell him. I was thinking if he hears it, he'll hear it himself.
If not, she's going to tell him. But I think that's a great word, the habit thing, because surrender is a habit. It's not a one time. It's a daily, almost minute by minute, especially with your children that you can't control. You have to, I'm, I'm opening my hands right now because we hold on tightly to our children and as they grow up and it's the hardest thing for a parent to go, okay, they're not mine. They're his, they may make bad decisions.
They may make good ones. My identity is not how they do. My identity is in Christ. I'm going to surrender again.
2 AM, 3 AM, 6 AM. I'm going to surrender and God will walk with your children. You know, I have found over decades of walking with God that in many ways, the end of myself is the beginning of God. Surrender is such a huge obstacle for me because I'm one of those people who wants to control stuff all the time. Maybe you're like me and my kids are now at the ages, you know, 13 and 10 where I'm like, they're going to do what they're going to do and I can't wrangle them the way I used to. And frankly, that's terrifying.
It really is. But it doesn't have to be because all the control I think I had when my kids were younger was pretty much an illusion anyway. Ultimately, they belong to Jesus and I need to trust that.
So why don't we just trust Jesus with our kids like we actually mean it. I'm Shelby Abbott and you've been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Maggie Combs on Family Life Today. Maggie's written a book called Motherhood Without All the Rules, trading stressful standards for gospel truths. And it's so, so necessary right now. If this book seems appealing to you, you can get your copy right now by going online to familylifetoday.com or you can click on the link in the show notes.
Or feel free to give us a call at 800-358-6329 to request your copy. Again, that number is 800 F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. You know, when we're prioritizing walking with Jesus and we're living out motherhood like Maggie was talking about, you're really making your mark in ways that you may not even understand right now. You're making your mark in your relationship with God. You're making your mark with your spouse.
You're making your mark as a parent. And one of the ways that we here at Family Life want to make a mark is by bringing the gospel to marriages and families. And the cool thing is you can help us to make that mark in people's lives.
This month, we want to raise $250,000 in new funds by the end of August. And one of the ways we can do that is with you hopping in and partnering with us to become a part of the solution here at Family Life. We need donors to link arms with us and help to make their mark in marriages and families all over the country and frankly, all over the world. Every donation that you make really makes a mark in the lives of other people that we are trying to reach here at Family Life.
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Now coming up tomorrow, how do you put your spouse first in a blended family when kids have a tendency to constantly need your attention and your time? Well, David Ann Wilson and I are going to be joined by Ron Deal and Gayla Grace to talk about just that. We hope you'll join us. On behalf of David Ann Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.
