My daughter, Courtney, my oldest one, she gave me a gift of the New Testament, and in the Gospels, she used one of those Sharpie knives, and she cut out all the parts of the Gospels that had to do with disability.
It's incredible. Like, there's shreds of pages left. I'll hold up the Bible and I'll say, well, is this Bible complete?
Well, of course it's not. And I'm like, the church is not complete without disability. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.
You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today. So I think I'm going to say something I've never said on Family Life Today broadcast.
What is this? We're going to talk about animals today. I'm telling you.
Barnyard animals. I'm going to say I'm so excited. This is a whole other part of me that nobody knows, but I am secretly so excited about this today.
Because, one, we have Paul Miller back with us, and he has brought his wife Jill with him to the studios of Family Life. Jill, you're famous because he's talked about you in ways that we just want to know you. Oh, honey.
I love you. It's really sweet. But the other reason I'm excited is because, Jill, you've written a devotional for kids, and it's called Finding Jesus on Upside Down Days. Even the title is intriguing. It's beautifully illustrated.
It captures your heart, your eyes, and I have this love for animals. It just, they speak to me. And Jill, they speak to you.
Absolutely. Oh, they do speak quite clearly. Much more clearly than I speak. Is this Dr. Doolittle? What's going on here? Animals still talking? You know, sometimes I do go in the barnyard, and in the morning I'm like, you know, I call them the boys. They're two donkeys. They're so sweet.
I'll go up to the boys and say, hey, you know, your great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great uncle spoke to bail them. That's right. That's right. I just read that. And if you have a word to speak to me, I'm all ears. Not quite as big as yours, but I'm all ears. Well, let's start here. Tell our listeners who you guys are.
Yeah, what you do. You know, I'd love to hear at least Jill's side of the story, like how you met and a little bit of your marriage story even before we jump into the devo. Because I'm not kidding. Our listeners have heard Paul many times, and he's mentioned you, and this is the first time they're going to hear your voice. So they'd love to hear sort of who you are, what you do and how you met. The secret story of how we first met. Yeah. Well, Paul's sister was my best friend in high school.
All right. And she started in 10th grade. And I eventually ended up in her bedroom on the third floor in their Victorian house. And she was trying to help me with algebra. So it was a beautiful late spring morning because exams were coming, and I had to get this in my head because finals were coming. And so the window was open because third floor, no air conditioning, and Barb's parents' house, they didn't have much money for air conditioning. So the window was wide open.
And so, you know, it was late in the afternoon, I was tired, and I didn't really want to learn about algebra. So I picked up my math book, and I threw it out the window. Of course you did. Then I heard this little voice go, ooh, wow. And I looked out the window, and this person looked up, and I said, oops, sorry. That was Paul. Really? So Jill has this crazy side.
We hadn't noticed. And that was my introduction to Jill's vivacious spark that she's brought into our lives over many years. Paul, are you different from Jill? Someone needs to be stable. Yeah.
So how have you made that work? Oh, prayer. That's why Paul's written a book. Repentance. Two books on prayer. Three books on prayer.
Two books on prayer. You know, I mean, God has been so good to us. He really has been. You know, in some ways, our marriage has been a series of laments for one another that God has answered.
And, you know, he's so good. Has there been a sense, you know, it just hit me, one of the first times we talked to you on Family Life Today was the J-Curve book. I don't know if that was the first time, but it was one of the first times.
Which is so good. It really impacted us. Oh, every one of them has been. I mean, even the last time you were here talking about the praying church. We talked about it all night after the day. It was so powerful. But thinking of the J-Curve, and again, I'm not going to go through the whole J-Curve, but there's a death resurrection. Have you seen some of that in your own marriage over the years?
When haven't we seen it? Kim was a biggie. Well, you have six kids.
Yeah, we have six kids. And you've talked about Kim. Share a little bit about Kim and why that has been a biggie. Well, when she was born in 81, we knew right away that Kim was going to be different than our other three kids we already had. And so when she was 18, we finally found out she had a deletion in one of her chromosomes. I explained it to my mom that there's a forest and Kim's had one tree cut down.
And so my mom turns around and she says, well, that must have been an important tree. So Kim, she has autism and she uses a device to talk. She's very good at it. She won't let me go near it because she knows I'll mess up the machine.
It's a computer. She has a wonderful sense of humor. She loves Jesus. She's very tuned in to where I am, where people are next to her.
It's beautiful. But has that been for a marriage? And she still lives with you.
Oh, yeah. We're together. We're not empty nesters. We are so thankful.
We are so, so thankful. Kim, one day when I was walking two of our golden retrievers, and I always memorized a verse before the kids were born, kind of to get me through the grueling pains of having a baby. And Kim's verse was no harm will come to them. And this was like a claw on my brain because there was a lot of harm.
What do you mean by harm? Life was so hard for her. It was really hard in school. Spitballs thrown on her.
People assuming she couldn't learn when she really loved to learn. School was a battleground in so many ways. The church got hard too.
Yeah. And to the point that I went back to school and became a special ed teacher because I wanted to, I knew both sides, parental and teaching. I wanted to do that. How was church hard? You know, when you suffer in some way, your world narrows.
You just don't have capacity to reach out. And our church had really a which we love. But our church loved reaching out. And Jill was one of those people who reached out. And now she was in a position where she was isolated.
So, some people would think of that as ingrown. And Kim was really sick in the beginning. We were good at things where God answered prayer quickly. We weren't as good where God drew you into death and into suffering that wouldn't go away.
It might be a general weakness of the church, particularly the American church. And so Jill felt isolated. So, Jill, you're a person. You bring life.
You carry life and joy wherever you go. So, for you to be isolated, that had to be hard. And to feel like you're fighting on Kim's behalf because no one else seemed to be on her side in some ways maybe. You know, I think it's that long-term suffering.
People are okay at short-term. You know, like you ripped your bicep. Oh, I'm sorry. You have surgery and you're better in six months.
But that long haul. And when I looked around in our church, there weren't that many people who were affected by disability. So, at one point, years later, my daughter Courtney, my oldest one, she gave me a gift of the New Testament. And in the Gospels, she used one of those Sharpie knives. And she cut out all the parts of the Gospels that had to do with disability.
And I wish I should have brought it. It's incredible. Like, there's shreds of pages left. That's how much the Gospels discuss. It's her way to show you it's everywhere in the Bible. And I'll say, I'll hold up the Bible and I'll say, Well, is this Bible complete? Well, of course it's not.
And I'm like, the church is not complete without disability. Just as this word is not complete. And I think that's what I felt like. But back to that story. I want to finish this story and then we can go off again. So, 18 years later, I was walking our two dogs. 18 years after? After Kim was born.
Okay. And I was walking down this hill and it was like a Kodak moment. I don't know if you all have Kodak moments. We're old enough to remember Kodak. The picture is in your mind. You'll never forget it.
You don't need to have a paper that shows you the picture. I was walking down and I'm not a weirdo with this. I heard God say, what you meant for Kim, I meant for your whole family.
No harm will come to them. And God used Kim in our family and continues to use Kim. Like, she's such a gift. You know, I remember the night she was born, again, I almost heard God say, you have two ways to go, Jill. You're going to go on your own to the left or you're going to the right and you're going to follow me. And I said, okay. How has she changed you guys and your whole family?
What does that look like? I'm thinking of the family who's right in the middle of learning their child has a disability. And I've talked to many that feel so alone, so isolated that the church has in some ways forgotten them. Tell us how this has been something that God has, it's been a blessing for your family. You know, it's interesting because we had to all surrender time and space for Kim.
So she has autism. Just to give you an idea, when we went to the circus, we didn't have much money. So when we got tickets, it was a big deal. And so we had hyped up this circus. Yes, there's eight of you going to the circus. Everybody went. This is in a squeaky minivan that's smoked. And so we're all psyched and we go in and she has this incredible meltdown and we all had to leave.
This is just one tiny thing, but multiplied over and over and over again. And we all had to leave. And the kids learned love.
And patience. We had this one bathroom and now, even with my kids in their 40s, they'll mimic Kim banging on the door and then she'd bang once or twice and then just charge in. Very funny. But it was just, she's just taught us how to love. Ashley, our second child, who's now in heaven, she went through special ed. Andrew, who works in education, he works with kids who really have needs. Emily's a nurse. Kim touched all of our lives. She shaped a lot of their vocations. And so what, you know, when I prayed, no harm will come to her, them, it really was our family.
And Paul and I, Lord have mercy. Yeah, I wanted to know that. How's it, you know, four decades, how's it affected your marriage? Was it hard in the beginning? You said the J curve. That's where we started the conversation when you go down.
You know, you do adjust. So 81, Kim was born. But by 90, 91, money was gone because I had been working in the inner city and then in missions and we didn't have a lot of money and just God took us through a lot of stuff. And I think Jill was really feeling the isolation. And also she was feeling the culture of the church that was drawn to shiny things.
And Kim and her effect on our family was not a shiny thing. She brought a little bit of dust. Yeah. She continues to bring dust. Kind of like that character in Peanuts.
Pig pen. Yeah. Everywhere he goes, there's a storm around him.
Yeah, it's a storm of dust wherever he goes. Sweet one. Yes. And I mean, one of the, I mean, there were so many good things God did even during those years, but learning, you know, for me particularly was learning to love a wife under stress. Like, Kim, you can kind of figure that out, you know. But to learn to love Jill in new ways.
And when I took this Jesus sabbatical, I call it now, in 91 where I saw just little basic things about how Jesus loved, like he looked at people. Like, so when I looked at Jill, I could, you know, prior to that, it was, you know, in my heritage, I could see what was wrong as opposed to, wait a minute, just don't judge. Just look, you know, be aware of her. Be aware of her world. See.
I mean, get it on your shirt right now. See. Yeah, yeah. See Jill, you know, see her world. Don't come in with judgments and, you know, just receive, you know, just receive her.
And part of that was to incarnate, to step in her shoes, you know. Hold off on the advice and just look, you know. And I still am amazed that she doesn't necessarily want my advice because it's really good. It's really good.
I feel the same way about Ann. I just gave you some of the best advice that anyone will ever give you. I was never looking for the advice. I wanted you to see me. As Paul says, can I give you a little bit of a suggestion? No. No. And I'm like, okay. Well, Paul, keep going because I remember last time you hear that, that thought was so good.
Just finish this though. See, feel is what I hear when you say feel the compassion. Yeah, there's this pattern in the gospels of Jesus that Luke has it particularly strong of Jesus looks, he feels compassion, and then he acts. And in my scholarly Reformed heritage, you know, we looked and gave advice.
And theologians, you know, gave good moral advice. Absolutely. To the T. Well, and I'm thinking about that, Jill. Your home was six kids. It's nuts. It had to be absolutely crazy. It wasn't just six kids. It's five plus one with a disability.
Yeah, and not just that. So this might be edited with the people in that little room that I'm looking at, but between you and me. And it could be more people because I think it's hysterical. We decided after Kim, that's it, you know, of course. So then comes along Andrew. I thought I had done my part.
So then two years after that, Paul did his part. And I got pregnant with the six. Come on.
Exactly. To the point that I called the urologist at 11 o'clock at night. Oh, this is very funny. So we had people over for dinner because I was trying to be a good wife. You're trying to be a good wife. I'm really trying, Paul. You suggested to have the people over.
The people. So I had the people over, and I'm signing to him because Kim learned sign language. And I'm signing to him that I think I was pregnant.
And Paul said, that's impossible. We're at either end of the table. Exciting. Wait, are the people there? We almost literally take the people by their pants and shirt and throw them out the front door. Got rid of them. What made you bring it up while the people were there at the table? With chicken. I had chicken. And I gagged.
Oh, that's it. And I'm like, oh my word. My eyes get like big as saucers. And I'm like, oh my goodness. And I started sweating. I'm even sweating now just talking about it. I'm like, no way. Paul said, don't worry about it. I know the drugstore that's open 24-7.
At that point, there were very few. So he says, I'll just get the kit. So we get the kit.
So this has to be edited. We get the kit. And Paul's like, here, just tinkle in this.
We won't even wait for morning. It'll take three minutes to turn awkward. These chairs?
These chairs. Like three seconds. I slid down the bathroom wall like, slid. I'm like, you got to be kidding. Still holding the vial. Really? Oops.
Yes. And so like, everything in our life was nuts. Tell me in that moment, as you slid down the wall, you're sitting on the floor. Tell me what's going on in your head. Really?
That's what was going on. Like, I'm speechless. Speechless. Like we can't do it. Like, oh my word.
And at that point, I'll take the clock way back, when Kim was one, she was up eight times a night. Oh. So, and screaming.
Not like just up and rolling around. So that was like part of that autism. And 40 years ago, autism wasn't as known. Right.
Do you know what I mean? It really was not. It's not necessary. I mean, we broke the ice in lots of things.
We could be here forever. In school, there was not education for a kid with autism. There wasn't a one-on-one.
There was no communication device. We brought it all into our public school. And, but when Kim was one, prior to me having Kimberly, we had a neighbor. She was a Jewish gal. Beautiful woman. Her name was Carolyn. And she came up to me when I was washing the car, and she said to me, and all the three kids were in the driveway playing, not fighting, they were playing. And their clothes matched.
This is how I needed Jesus. And we didn't have money, so I made them. Like, can you imagine? Okay, hello.
It's just a little thing you just threw out there. You're washing the car. In the morning.
Because there weren't car washes. With the kids clean and matching. So you did it yourself, yeah.
With their shoes on the right feet. Okay. And I turned around and said, Carolyn says, Jill, how do you do this? And I said, you know, Carolyn, I just wake up in the morning and I decide I'm going to do this and I do it. And then I had Kim, and he taught me, Jesus taught me, no, Jill, you do because I've let you do. I give you the strength to do. And so after getting up eight times a night for a year, it took that long for Jesus to break my will. I said, I remember nursing her, and the tears just hit.
My tears just hit her cheeks. I said, okay, I'm on for the ride. Wow. It has been a ride. That act of surrender. It's really been a ride. You know, I'm hearing you, Jill, and I'm thinking there are listeners that are getting up at night, whether it's a child or maybe their marriage is just blowing up. Oh, a diagnosis. So many things.
So many things now. They're just feeling what you've felt, and they want to quit, and they want to scream at God. And you're saying God's right there. Talk to them.
Talk to that person. He is so there. He is so present. And you know, when you're so close to something, you can't see it. Even if you pick up a plant and you bring it so close to yourself, you can't identify it.
You just see the color. And Jesus is so close, and He's got it. And He's for us. And you just, all things will work together for good. And it's interesting, and I'll just keep bouncing around if that's okay.
This is part of this. You know, in your marriage, you just have marriage, not marriage, waiting to get married. Wherever we all are, it's crazy now.
There's just so much stuff going on. And we had a daughter, Ashley, our second daughter, who's in heaven now. Have you talked to them about Ashley? Share a little bit, like what happened to her. Okay, so she, Ash had colon cancer, was diagnosed at 36.
90% chance of making it. And anyway, after six years and an awful lot, God took her home. She has three kids and a husband who loved her. And I, my faith, I have faith, but I was crushed. I cried out. I fasted.
I did it all. And I knew He heard me. And I let go of her, but I was crushed. And I remember, I was out in the barnyard. Barnyard's kind of like my church. And it's a great place to be because it's quiet.
You can think, no phone, I don't have a phone on me. And I was just crushed. And then my dog, Anaya, got cancer. And she was diagnosed with this crazy cancer and very, very lethal. And I said to the Lord, Ashley's life hit so many people, so many, I'll never know. The ripples of her life.
Like her service was just lines and lines and lines. And I remember saying, well, Lord, it's me and the dog. It's just me and the dog. Can you please just help this dog live to be 13? She was nine at the time. Help this dog be 13.
And then I said, okay, Aba, 12's okay. And I just had her 12th birthday. And she's known at the vet as the miracle dog. And the neat thing is her name, Anaya, is a Hebrew word that means, and I did not know this when she was born, or Ashley was not sick.
Her name means God answers. And it's just, he does answer. So if you're alone, he's got it. He's got it. He's with you. He's for you. There's no thing that will keep him apart. No thing.
Hang on. You know, when I hear stories like that, it reminds me that God hears our prayers and wants us to approach him with the big stuff and the little stuff. He cares about the intimate details of our lives. He cares about all of it, the big and the little things. So go to him and offer your life to him in every way.
You won't regret it when you do. I'm Shelby Abbott, and you've been listening to Dave and Anne Wilson with Jill and Paul Miller on Family Life Today. Jill has written a book called Finding Jesus on Upside Down Days. This is really a book that intertwines the beauty of something like farm life with profound reflections on faith and walking with God. And you can get your copy right now by going online to familylifetoday.com, or you can find it in our show notes.
Or just give us a call at 800-358-6329. Again, that number is 800, F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. And, you know, we've been talking about family today. And earlier this week, we had Dr. Gary Chapman on who wrote a book called Five Traits of a Healthy Family.
Steps you can take to grow closer, communicate better, and change the world together as a family. So this book by Dr. Chapman is gonna be our gift to you when you give to the ministry of family life. You can get your copy simply by going online and donating at familylifetoday.com and clicking on the donate now button at the top of the page. Or you can give us a call.
Again, that number is 800, F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. Or you can feel free to drop us a donation in the mail if you'd like. Our address is Family Life, 100 Lakehart Drive, Orlando, Florida, 32832. Now tomorrow, Paul and Jill Miller are gonna be back with Davin and Wilson to share their journey of creating inclusive Bible studies for individuals with intellectual disabilities. And it was all inspired by their daughter Kim's autism. We hope you'll join us for that. On behalf of Davin and Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry, helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.
