This episode is supported in part by the Christian Standard Bible, a translation designed to be faithful to the original text and clear for everyday readers. And we're just grateful for their partnership in helping bring gospel-centered content to families like yours. And to learn more about the CSB, visit csbible.com. Hi. I always say, like, it's not long.
If our internal monologue is shame on me, it's 2.5 seconds till it becomes shame on you with your kids because they're exposing something in you you don't want to see. And so you tell them, if you would just, then I get to be the mom I want to be. Or maybe it comes out on your husband, like if he would just, then I would be able to be the mom I want to be. And the reality is that what scripture tells us is that what needs to be dealt with, and this is multifaceted, but primarily is our sinful hearts. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most.
I'm Dave Wilson. And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today. All right, so here's a phrase every mom and dad has said.
Okay. Guaranteed. Yep, go ahead and say it. It's the title of Abby Wedgeworth's new book. Help.
I'm ruining my kids. If a mother hasn't said it, she has thought it. Without a doubt, we all wonder that at times we remember and recall the things that we failed at doing that day as a mom, what we said, what we yelled, what we didn't do. And I can remember putting my head on the pillow thinking that very thing. Jesus, I think I'm ruining these incredible children that you gave me.
It's Abby. Welcome, Abby. Abby, we love having you. Woo! Woo!
Abby Woodsworth in the house. This morning, just to get to be with you guys. Where are you? I'm so happy to be with you. You're just saying that.
No. Really? You really were. Yes.
Well, we're glad you were. And my sister's here with me at a really hour. I was like, Jamie, I can't wait for you to meet my friends. They're the best. You're the best.
It's so fun to have you. And we've had you on a couple times.
So now, here's the name of this book: Help. I'm Ruining My Kids: A Gospel Guide for the Mom Who's Desperate. for change. Do you think every mom asks that question or says that? Help, I'm ruining my kids.
Okay, so for the past, I don't know, however long I've been writing this, anytime people be like, What are you working on in my real life? And I would tell them, people would just start crying. Yeah. Like literally every mom that I talked to about just the title of this book. And it was always like, I need to read that ASAP.
And sometimes they would just start divulging specifics, you know, like, here is how I think I'm messing them up. Tell me some of the things they said. I mean, some of it was yelling at their kids or limited knowledge, just like, I don't know how to handle this, or, you know, things from their past. Like, I'm trying not to be my mom. I open my mouth and my mom comes out.
Or, you know, I mean, all kinds of things. And have you thought it? Oh, I thought it yesterday. That's the thing about the book. It's not going to eradicate the thought, but it'll teach you what to do with it.
You know, so where did this idea? I mean, have you been thinking I got to write this book for decades or is this a new thought?
Well, I've been a mom for eight decades. How do I look if our kids aren't that old? No, I our oldest is 10, but really this book proposal, actually, I started crafting before our third son was born. Really? Yes.
And then I just was paying attention and plugging in content, but I wasn't ready to write it. But really, it came out of. My own struggle with postpartum mental health. And I really was wrestling with, like, okay, is postpartum rage something I need to repent of? Is this like, A sin issue?
Am I responsible for this? Because I feel like it's like hormonal. And out of your control. And out of my control. And so I really, it was theological for me a ton of it.
It was just like, what is happening to me? But whether it was an issue of responsibility or whether it was physical or spiritual or mental or whatever, what I could not deny was that it was affecting my children. That became a really, Hard fear for me to grapple with is how am I affecting them? And is it redeemable? And you can't press pause on parenting.
Like, you can't be like, Okay, everyone, hang on. I'm going to go get really holy and then come back. It's like you are with them all day, every day. And whatever you're working out is coming out all over them, you know? And so, I mean, what did that postpartum?
You said rage. Yeah. What did that look like? I have a husband who is so fabulous, but and I have talked about this. He's, he was gone a lot.
Yeah. And he will say he has a special bond with our third because he made some career changes and has been more present with him than he had with the other two. But did you say he was working 14 hour days? 14 hour days. Yeah.
Six days a week. You know, so like I show up to birthday parties, and all the dads are there, and I'm the only mom without. And so, I just, it was a lot physically. It was a lot. I was up with them, and he needed his rest to work, and I cracked up a little bit, you know, like I.
I was about two weeks into motherhood when I realized I wasn't the mom that I thought I would be. Who did you think you'd be? I picture there's like Renaissance paintings where the mothers just like, or like a Norman Rockwell, where you're just super in control of your emotions and setting the chocolate chip cookies down and like doing arts and crafts. And you got dressed at least. But, and I was really maternal and like a coveted camp counselor.
So I just thought I would be like, you're going to be great at this. I thought I had great instincts. And then I'm holding this two-week old baby who's like frantically bobbing. And I'm like, just close your mouth. I'm screaming at this baby.
Like, what is so hard about eating? Just latch. Yes, just latch. And like, I couldn't do it. And I was.
Mad and I was alone. I was crying all the time. And really, it was postpartum anxiety and postpartum depression. This is what I've learned. I never know it then.
I didn't know. And I lied on every intake form because I didn't want to be crazy. I didn't want them to put something in my chart.
So I didn't get the help I needed for a long time because I thought I was the only one. What did you think about yourself? Like, what was your internal dialogue? This is so sad. I'm like, so unkind to me.
Yeah. But I really thought. Like, how can I have been a Christian for this long and be struggling this badly? When I was a child, you've been longing for that. I had been longing for, and it was so small.
and helpless and I'm the person. I'm who he gets and I just felt so sorry for him. That's who he got for a mom. You know, you think things like, I shouldn't be allowed to have kids, or what's wrong with me that I can't cope? You know, and you think you're the only one.
You think you're the only one? And then it was like that with every baby. I was bummed too. We wanted four kids. And then we made the decision to stop because I honestly, we were like, let's give our kids an alive, mom.
You know, like, I just didn't know if I would make, I mean, suicidal ideation was part of the third, and it was really intense. And so I just wrote myself a letter and was like, how about we stop? And, Abby, you're a woman that knows the word. Oh, love Jesus. Yes.
You have the answers in your relationship with Christ, and yet. You've probably felt more guilt because that was all true about yourself. I mean, I doubted my salvation. It was like 100%. And here's the thing: like, if anyone listening is experiencing that.
If we doubt, if Satan can get us to doubt our position in Christ, our union with Him, then we will stop looking for the provision of God within our circumstances.
So that's like a really sneaky boy.
So I will say, nothing can pluck you from the palm of his hand, like not your mental health. Not your own doubts, you know? And so. Just take the promise of salvation and ride it all the way to the throne of grace. Because you're kept, you're held there.
I mean, I'm guessing there's moms listening right now, and they're like, I'm there. Yeah, I think most moms are. And the thing is, when we are not at the darkest day, when we have a pretty good day, we kind of forget. You're right, and then it's so intense when it pops back up, and you're like, I'm still here, I thought I'd be farther along.
So, there's so much shame. I think that's one of the key pieces of this. Really, the goal is to parent on purpose to have the agency to do it the way God calls us to, to show up the way we want to, as the versions of ourselves that we want to. And a major piece of not showing up the way we want to is that we're functioning in shame. We're living out of an identity of I shouldn't be allowed to have children.
I'm the worst mom. I always blow it versus living out of this identity in Christ.
Well, I mean, that's something you wrote about, and I know you experienced.
So, I'm sitting with two moms. I know dads have shame, and we have even some of the same stuff you're talking about, but I know moms carry that shame. In a way, I'd watch Ann, I'm like, You are a great mom. Are you kidding me? You're and she could not see it in herself.
She's like, No, I'm not, no, I'm not. How do you carry that and how do you dig out of it? The thing with that is moms is. When we got married, I knew th I was hoping and praying that God would allow us to have kids. And so you feel like this is one of my purposes in life.
And so we watch other moms, and especially now it's even harder because now you're watching other moms through all these different channels and mediums of social media. But I remember thinking, I'm going to be great at this. I'm going to kill this thing, man. It's going to be so good. Oh, I was going to crush it.
I am going to, this is going to be amazing. Yeah. I remember thinking I don't even know who this person is that I'm looking at in the mirror. I don't recall anything like this from my past. This is not me.
I don't know who I am. And I know Jesus. Like you've written about it because you've come out of it. But you know. You're saying you've experienced the same things.
Is it anger? Is it. You know, what is it you're looking at and going, what is it the anger part? Yeah, anger is a secondary emotion. And I think it's the easiest for us to pinpoint as moms.
It's very easy to identify, wow, I just really raised my voice there, you know, but that's it's a secondary emotion. And it's like, it's not our only sin struggle. But I've seen it with like manipulation. With my kids, like employing tactics I don't want to employ, yeah, or shame speech. I had shame speech at the beginning.
I didn't know. What's shame speech? I mean, just like. Things about making their actions about their identity. You know, anything that's like, you are this or you always this, failure speech, you know.
And I think we do it. I always say, like, it's not long if our internal monologue is shame on me. It's 2.5 seconds till it becomes shame on you with your kids because they're exposing something in you you don't want to see. And so you tell them, if you would just, then I get to be the mom I want to be. Or maybe it comes out on your husband, like if he would just, then I would be able to be the mom I want to be.
And the reality is that what scripture tells us is that what needs to be dealt with, and this is multifaceted, but primarily is our sinful hearts. You know, that is what Christ came to redeem and change. And so a friend of mine, I remember weeping when Henry, our youngest, was like eight weeks old. My husband was not there.
Solo bad times has been like a big Thing for me and struggling. And bath times. And bath times. Yeah, that was what had happened. The, you know, my, my older boys were, let's see, like four and two.
And I had this eight-week old baby. And the older boys had been splashing water out of the bathtub, which is a major affront to my control. You know, it's one more thing to deal with, one more thing to clean up. And then I was trying to nurse the baby to sleep, and they're in the other room. Giggling.
Okay, they're not even fighting. They're just Loud. And so I can't get the baby to sleep. I have all these self-pity thoughts in my mind. And then I remember I walked to their room and I said, This day is over.
There will be no books. There will be no snuckles. This is the end. Do not come out. And I slammed their door.
And then I walked outside with the baby who's screaming probably because I burst his eardrum. I mean, it was some high volume, and then I'm outside just weeping. And I was angry with the Lord for letting me be this person. You know, but a friend said to me in this season, she said, the exposure of our sin is always a mercy. And I kind of wanted to slap her when she said it because I'm like, I don't want to see that.
That doesn't feel kind or loving to me. But the reality is, on this side of eternity, we're not perfect. And self-awareness is a huge piece of how we show up to motherhood, you know?
So I have something to repent of then. Yeah. Some people just heard that and thought, wait, well, it wasn't your fault. Like, what are you confessing? What are you saying?
Like, you have postpartum? Like, is that sin? This is a great question. And I think of it.
So there are three things that are true about us as we sit here, right? One is that we're saints. Like, we have been clothed in the righteousness of Christ. And somehow. Because we've surrendered, he has offered us his righteousness.
So somehow we are saints. We are seated with him in the heavenly places. That is true of us. Honestly, that's such an important piece to realize that is the identity Jesus has given us to live out of and into. That's what we're headed towards.
And he who began a good work will bring it to completion.
So, like, we can take that and hold on tight to it. But there are two other pieces: one is that we are sinners. On this side of heaven, we will always have something to repent of. Always. Every day.
And there are things that we're not even aware of, you know? And the other piece, though, is that we're sufferers. And in two ways: one, we are victims of the effects of the fall. You know, just the general hardship that comes from living in a fallen world. And then, also, we are victims of the sins of others.
That was a big question for me, and during that time, was: Am I responsible for this? And it It's kind of like when my kids play with Play-Doh. This irks me. I don't know if you're a type A, but like, if you get them out like nine beautiful colors, and in just a minute, it's all brown. Yeah.
Like, I'm telling Dolphin. Yes.
And we want to look at suffering and sin. And we want to be able to tease out: okay, what is like I'm living in a fallen body with imbalanced hormones? And what is I have a prideful heart that loves control? And you just can't untangle that. But the good news is, God has enough mercy for your sin and enough grace and compassion for your humanity.
And so the important thing is that we're running to him with it every time. And self-compassion sounds like woo-woo. We don't want to have it, you know, but really it's just agreeing with him. I love my favorite parenting verse, isn't even a parenting verse, but it's like Jesus looked at the crowd and he had compassion for them. And when we see God seeing us that way, we don't talk to ourselves that way with that shame speech, you know?
So I can both have compassion for me. that I am not getting enough sleep, that I'm up with the baby all the time. And then it makes it really hard to have agency. And I can experience conviction that the rage that I just. Poured out on my children needs to be repented of.
And I can apologize for that and ask for forgiveness. And when we focus too much on the one side, we withhold from ourselves absolution. And the beautiful freedom that the gospel brings. And when we only focus on the sin part, we withhold from ourselves bodily care that can help us maintain the agency that we need in order to show up as people who are doing it on purpose. Helpful language for me has been.
Explanation, not excuse.
So, if we're asking the question, do I need to repent of it? Just go ahead. Get the gospel freedom. Talk to Jesus about it. Talk to Jesus and say, okay, 12 steps back, what was going on?
Did I ignore hunger cues? Did I ignore my nervous system begging me to take a deep breath or a step away? Am I taking the time to think about my history and how it's impacting? My present. Those are important questions for us to be asking, but we tend to fall in one ditch on the side of either side of holistic sanctification.
That is such a good explanation. This is honestly. Years of fighting for me. Like, what is happening to me? Because every mom has probably experienced that if she has more than one child, who's not the perfect child, even with the perfect child.
God somehow reveals this inner conflict and sin going on. I can remember very similar to yours. Dave was gone, felt like he was gone a lot. And I had a five and a three year old in the tub. I'm in the bedroom nursing basically a newborn.
Yes, yes. And I can hear one son say, I think I've shared this before, mom, I have to go poop. Oh. And so then I'm like, okay, hun, just get out and go. He's in the bathroom.
And he goes, no, I don't want my brother to see me. I'm like, okay, well, get out and run to another sector. We call that self-defense privacy. That's good. Then the doorbell rings.
And so I am taking the nursing baby who's latched on nursing. And I go down like, I don't even know why I would answer the door, but it was back in the days when I felt responsible to open the door for some reason. But I take the baby. He stopped feeding him. I open the door and it's somebody selling new, like magazines.
I don't even know what in the world. I come back upstairs and It's like an absolute Tornado has gone off. Like there's a poop laying in the middle of the hallway. And the one brother, the younger brother, is laughing his head off, running around naked, celebrating. And the other son is like pounding him, and the baby is screaming his head off.
And I am yelling louder now than all of that. To try to get control. Yes.
But there is something about in the midst of absolute chaos. When you settle down with God, we have that choice where the accuser is just the accuser of the brethren, who is Satan, just wants to go at you. And Jesus is welcoming you in. Yeah, like, come to me, all you are weary and heavy laden, and I'll give you rest. And for me, just to say, Lord, I feel like a failure.
I yelled at these kids. That wasn't even anything bad they did, really. They poop in the floor is questioning. He couldn't make it to the factory.
Okay, yes, yes, it was. And so, but there is something about when we see this ugly part of it, that sin that we carry, and to let Jesus see it and to let him come and forgive it, and we repent, and we're apologizing. There's a beauty in that of the gospel. Yeah, it's the title of your book, A Gospel Guide for the Mom Who's Desperate for Change. Yeah, and it's the unique proposition of this book, you know, in a book proposal.
What's the unique proposition? And it's that I feel like there is a lot of discussion of grace. My pastor calls it sloppy agape, where like you just, it's everything's okay, you're loved, whatever, which is great and it's so important. But I think the message moms really. Are craving is like you can change, and Jesus can change you, can change you, and so you feel this like it feels like an emergency because you're affecting other people and you so desperately want to be different.
And the enemy wants to twist that and turn it into shame. But, like, you hear Paul cry out in Romans 7, wretched man that I like, wretched mom that I am, who will deliver me? Jesus, right? He will change you. And that exact feeling that you're talking about is what changes us.
It is. The more outrageous grace seems to us. the more we will change because it is gospel gratitude and Dependence that changes us. And it's desperation. Desperation.
I feel like so many of us, as moms, and I'm sure guys do too, but it's in a different way. Our sin nature is so revealed. And then we're so desperate, like, who am I? That's when the gospel becomes even more beautiful. And you're on your face before God, like, Lord, I can't do it.
I can't do this. Yes.
And that's in the introduction to the book, I basically say to the mom, like, the desperation you experience is the best thing you have going for you. The best.
Sometimes I feel sorry for certain dads because their desperation may be in a different area. And sometimes with kids, maybe older, but a lot of them don't feel what we feel as moms. Do you think? What do you think? Yeah, well, it's just like.
Day in, day out for most moms. Yeah, it's the monotony. Yeah, and it is a nice skull on our lives. Like, and not every woman nurses their babies. There are lots of ways to feed a baby, but you know, for a lot of women, it's just by design, a lot falls on the woman.
You're carrying the baby. You're delivering the baby. Our biological instincts are so strong to care for the baby, you know, and that's all by design. But that feeling of it's all up to me, everything depends on me. I think it's a beautiful thing that calls us to action and prompts this responsibility where we care for them and nurture them.
But then we take it too far to believe everything is. Dependent on us, including their salvation or how they turn out. You know, and that makes it feel like an emergency to change. I mean, there is a sense, I think, as a dad. And I'm going to exaggerate here, but it feels like the child is an extension of you moms.
You know, and I'm not thinking it feels that way as much for us as guys. And I'm sure some guys it is that way. For me, it felt like, you know, they're my son. It's awesome, but I'm going to work. Yeah.
You know, but you guys. It just doesn't seem like it's ever disconnected. Like the umbilical cord is still connected.
Well, even if a mom's working, she still has that emotional attachment. Which is awesome.
So here's my question. Wait, wait, before we do that, I want to just hit this. Abby, like I'm thinking of moms who are struggling getting pregnant and thinking like, well, I wish I had this problem. Yeah. What would you say to them?
It's another way that moms can experience shame to be like, I prayed for this. I longed for this. And now it's hard for me. It shouldn't be hard for me. Romans 12 is filled with all these one another commands to weep with those who weep, to rejoice with those who rejoice.
And I think there's so much danger in not caring well for each other by saying. or believing the grass is greener. I don't know. I would say, like, grieve the effects of the fall. That is infertility.
But I think we have to be careful. I don't know. Yeah, and I just think too, if you're in that place of infertility, you're in that situation which so many of our Bible heroes, of the women of the Bible, were, there's a desperation in that of taking it before Jesus and saying, God, what's happening? He wants to know your heart. He's with you.
So I get that too. Uh I love having this conversation. Of course you do. This is like up my alley. These two moms talking about ruining their kids and how to stop that from happening.
And by the way, you can get her book at familylifetoday.com. Click on the link in the show notes. And again, it's called Help. I'm Ruining My Kids: A Gospel Guide for the Mom Who's Desperate for Change. What a great title, great conversation.
And we've got Abby back tomorrow. We get to talk a little bit more about this.
So, we'll see you tomorrow. Before we're done today, I just want to remind our listeners: we know life is full of challenges, and families today need biblical truth more than ever. And as a Family Life partner, your monthly gift helps bring the truth into homes every single day through podcasts, events, and resources.
So let's make a lasting difference together. Become a partner today. Just go to familylifetoday.com and click the donate button. I don't know about you. But I need parenting help, not just sometimes, but most of the time.
So maybe you feel like that too. And we have resources to help you as a parent. And you can go to familylife.com slash parenting help. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry, celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most. Yeah.
