We were never, neither one of us were ever interested in playing. Plain pastor and first lady. We're very much human beings first, children of God, and that means we're being sanctified. Like I still say, the first seven years of our marriage were brutal. And you would see, like some people, you can see new people in the crowd being like.
The number of people that were like, the second you said that, I knew I could be here. All right, so we're on the road, Family Life Today on the Road. I don't know where we are. Where are we? You are in Highland Village, Texas, a suburb of Dallas.
I thought we're in Flower Mountain. No, that's directly across the street. It's so close. We're all activated. Did you know where we were?
I have not. I'm just following you wherever we go. We were sitting in Matt and Lauren Chandler's family room, right? Is that where they're going? We're in your church.
Lauren, yeah, this is the student building. Was this the original church, though? This was. The original, like, it's just like an old ranch-style building right there that I can see. Nobody else can, but well, Lauren, that was the original.
This was built in 86, and now we're about a mile down the road in a storefront. No, when you were first preaching, was it here? It was right here. Really? Yeah.
And is this only for students now? Really, students. Pretty much are here, but it's about to get an upgrade, and then young adults and men's, it'll have all sorts of fun things to do. And so, for now, though, this is students, they'll be hundreds. Hundreds of them here tonight.
Very cool. Yeah. Isn't this fun to get to interview them? We've always wanted to be with Matt and Lauren. And here we are.
Here we are. And I'm sure you've got to be able to do that.
Well, we were just talking about that a couple weeks ago, life plan. We were like, if we can. If we can. Yeah, we are honored. We are so honored.
Well, give us a little bit of your history. Not just the church, but your marriage. I know you got three kids. Yeah, you're old now, which means you're old.
So he's old. Yeah, you're not Laura. I remind everybody I'm much younger. I do too. Yeah, I don't think you have to say it.
I think it's pretty clear just looking at us. Either that or like he's lived really hard. No, we've been married 25, almost 26 years. This is a big one.
So you just started. We just celebrated 25. This is 26. And it was an interesting summer. I think we're actually going to celebrate it this coming summer.
Got a surprise for us. Do you? I do. But not saying anything because it's a surprise. You're going to be surprised.
So I don't want to know. I'm surprising her. Want to be surprised. That's right. And now that's risky.
You surprise a woman like Lauren. It's risky. Because it could. But she likes it. She likes the surprise, but then once the surprise is there, it could.
You surprise me, but read my mind. It better be the right surprise. I'm glad I have a good prophetic gift. I mean, I surprised Dan one time. She was visiting her sister or something for like a week.
I got my buddy Rob said, we're painting the family room. Uh-oh. And we were so, we watched Hoosiers. We painted the family room. She comes walking in.
We're like, watch this. I filmed it. And Rob's like, she didn't like it. I'm like, oh. She hated it.
She didn't just like it. You never know. I would never touch the house. Yeah, I never knew that. Like I am, I grew up with white walls overhead lights.
Okay. I mean, that's how I grew up. I never lived in a house that had paint on the walls or a lamp. And Lauren, like one of our adjustments is beauty matters to Lauren in a way I did not grow up with.
So I had to learn to walk through a dark room to try to find a lamb, even though there's a switch right here. We have compromised on dimmer switches on our overhead lights. There we go.
So yeah, you can flip it on, but don't have it full power unless you're looking for something. There we go.
There's compromise. I've learned. Yeah. I've learned the same thing. And I literally wipe off every kitchen counter and bathroom counter.
Yeah. I can't stand spots because she's trained me. Yeah, I feel some of that in me. I don't do the toilet, but we still do that. That's great.
My guess is you're the one that's messing the toilet anyway. But anyway, that's probably too much for podcasting. Not too much for the family life today.
Okay, so kids.
So we've got three kids. Our oldest is married. She's been married for about a year. Then we have a 19-year-old son who's in school and working. And then we have a 15-year-old daughter.
So we are, who was at PAO with me? Yes. Last time I saw you guys. Yeah. I saw you guys walking through the lobby.
Just a tall, beautiful, gregarious, wonderful soul. And she's, yeah, they're great hangs. Are you feeling that as they're getting older? Like, you're not that far away from being empty nesters. Which is awesome, by the way.
No, no, no, we're not. I don't think we're nervous about it.
Well, and they've kind of stuck close. I'm not sure about the thirdborn. She's talking about California, Florida, and I'm like, okay, we'll just come visit you. But. The other two, they like being around.
And so it's kind of neat to see them grow into their own and become adults and to watch them have to adults. I'd want to hang out with you guys. Maybe we should move here. Hey, come on. I'm not moving to Texas.
No. I love snow and I'm minus 10 degree Michigan. It's awesome. You're not going to get it here.
Well, Michigan's kidding. Three days of it here. I think it's three days of 10. Um, yeah, we we have begun to. I was just talking to somebody yesterday.
It's just like this new season where there have been rhythms and disciplines in place so that we can be the kind of mom and dad and husband and wife and friends that we want to be. And it just feels like. Like, I'd never had email on my phone until recently. Wow. Because I didn't want, I had this process where I'd put my hands on my desk, would thank God that He was going to keep working because ministry's never done it.
Like, I'm building a deck. Right. And I can be like, the deck's done. Let me go home and have a beer and watch the game. Like, there's always something, always a crisis, always.
So I'd put my hands on my desk. I would thank God that he was going to keep working and I didn't have to. And then I'd drive home and then had a little driveway prayer because I never knew what I was walking into when the kids were little. They have Chandler Blood, which is. It's destructive and energetic and lots of energy.
We have three sons. We understand. Three boys will do it. We at least got the two girls, but then, yeah, at least that's probably overspoken.
So I would have this little prayer in the driveway because I didn't know what I was walking into. And I would just try to remind my heart, it's been given to me and me alone to be Lauren's husband and these kids' daddies. And my friend J.R. Basser always called it second shift. Like you're not done when you get home.
It's like second shift. And your second shift's usually more important ultimately than your first one. And so I had that kind of second shift mentality. How can I walk in and be helpful, imperfectly executed? Oh my gosh, imperfectly executed.
But. Yeah, so now we're in a season where There's rarely chaos when I come home. Yeah, you know, we just have a 15-year-old. Or if there's anyone there at all. Yeah, that would be a big thing.
She's about to drive and her friends are driving. And so she's kind of got her own social life. Total extrovert, wants to go, likes to play. I mean, Lauren, is that how it lived out? Because I'd love to talk marriage in ministry because we did it and we almost lost our marriage the year we started our church.
I was planting this church and obsessed, couldn't see it. I wanted to do what Matt, you just said, but I often just, I prayed that prayer and then I walked in the house and brought it with me. And then she's like, you're not even here. And I'm like, yeah, I'm not. See, I really want to be over there anyway.
And we almost lost our marriage.
So it's, you know, it's hard because it never turns off. Yeah. And you're passionate about it. And it's the kingdom of God. And she felt like she couldn't compete with that.
Right. So how's that been for you guys? From day one, has it been hard or good or easy or all the above? All the above. I would say at first, you know, when we got to the church and this building that we're sitting in right now, were you early?
I was 22, pregnant with our first child, and he was 28. He is an older man, isn't he? Yeah, he has an odd man. She likes to bring that up. She likes to bring it up.
I don't know that we've ever done one of these where that didn't come out. That's actually later than it usually comes out. Usually first thing you don't even ask her. She's like, I'm six years younger. Anyway, so like I was a new becoming a new mom.
We'd been married for a couple years, you know, so it was all very new. Yeah, we, it was, it was a tough seven years. What do you mean you weren't doing well? Just struggle? We had a really rough first seven years.
We did. Yeah, I think we were still maturing clearly. And we had a lot of baggage. And he had more than I did, but I had plenty and it looked just prettier. I like to say.
That Lauren came in, Lauren came into the marriage with a backpack of baggage, and I came in. I came in with, like, you would need a pretty powerful locomotive to pull my baggage. Very similar, but it's okay, you know. We were similar 20 years. I mean, you had six more years to live, so yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Those are hard years. That's right. So a lot of people are listening that thinking We have so much baggage. We don't even know what to do with it. There's so much.
How do you even start? Yeah. I think we made solid attempts at first that were a little bit misguided, I would say.
Some of it was for me: okay, I just need to try harder, pray more, read my Bible more. I just need to be better. And, you know, and my journals, like, Lord, help me be a better wife, all these things. Um, without really getting to the heart of what I was experiencing, where it was. It was this desire to be good.
Like, if I've struggled with my whole life, it's with perfectionism and people pleasing and performing. Like, what do you want me to do? I can do it. And that's even how I was with the Lord: just, being um like earning and performing his love yeah and so i would say gosh it wasn't until our second was born When I was 25, I started going to Celebrate Recovery at our church.
So we were starting a recovery program, Celebrate Recovery. Most honest people in the church. Everybody. Everybody should go. There's not a person.
Yes, they're not hiding. And I was like, he had gone through counseling. I had done some counseling, but I was 25, had a three-year-old start, like maybe I had a baby at that point, our second born. And I just had hit a wall where I was like, I cannot do it anymore. Like, I am trying to get at these deep-seated insecurities in my heart that just were not coming out.
And I was like, I'm going to go to Celebrate Recovery. And The man which is pretty crazy, the pastor's wife's wife showing up there.
So I don't know another pastor's wife to have it. To be fair, we like it was it was kind of the big kickoff. And so Matt had invited everyone to come to celebrate recovery. And so like, I was like, I'm going to go sitting in the front row and hearing the man, you know. Speak on these, he gave an illustration of this beautiful field that the Lord wanted to plant, but there are all these weeds in it.
And the person was trying to pull the weeds up and they're mowing over it, but nothing was working. And I mean, that was, he was reading my mail. I was like, yeah, nothing's working for me. I don't know how to do this. And at the end, he kind of gave this altar call, this opportunity to just surrender.
And you would go up there and you pick up this poker chip and you'd hug somebody and then you go back to your seat. And I remember thinking, I want to surrender. I've tried and I cannot do it. I think I understood. as best I could the grace of God, but it really had not penetrated my heart.
So I believe I knew the Lord and I was I had a relationship with them. I was eight years old when I got saved, but I was still bound up in a lot of perfectionism and people pleasing. And that day, I remember the opportunity passed, and I was so mad at myself. I was like, oh, why not do it? But all these things were playing in my head: like, you're the pastor's wife.
What are people going to think? And so, It came back around at the very end. They offered it one more time. And you could not hold me down. I was going straight up there.
But I think that was the beginning of breakthrough for me and healing, like complete healing in our marriage. Could you see it, Matt? Yeah. Well, you know. I was such a jerk at the time, and I'm being honest, where she's like, I just need to pray harder, I just need to be better, and I'm thinking, yeah.
Yeah, you do. Because I mean, I'm telling you, to my shame. Um because like Every other area of my life is gold. I mean, every other area of my life was gold. I am beloved here.
I am like, I am traveling and preaching. I am, you know, I like, and then there's this area of my life that's. broken and cold and and I didn't Like I was just like, yeah. Yes, let me pray for you. I mean, it was so awful.
And I said awful things. And so But There was this moment of grace where I was being a baby. I mean, I was just being a baby. And we were in my kitchen, and I'm like, I'm not going to be, I mean, like, I made like a Covenant with guy was so, it's so terrible. I'm just like, I will not, I'm not going to be my dad.
I'm not going to be explosive. I'm not going to be, I'm just not going to be that.
So, what I would do when I was upset is just get icy. And so, which is just such a... I mean, golly, such a baby. And I was frustrated for something that didn't even make sense, something I'd made, a story I was telling myself that wasn't true. And I'm in the kitchen and I'm just like ignoring, being icy towards her.
And she's like, are you okay? I'm fine. You know, I'm fine. I'm not. And I think I'm winning.
That's what's crazy. I'm not exploding. I'm not. I'm doing amazing here. I'm the freaking best husband ever.
So I'm not screaming. I'm not. I'm not mine. And that's right. That was the way it's anti-vision rather than vision.
So I didn't know this is the kind of husbands God's calling me to. I was going, I won't be this. Which is a surefire way to become that. Yeah. Just a little bit different.
So you need vision to pull you forward. This is the kind of husband God's calling me to.
Now let me live into that. Not I don't want to be these things. I think you become those things. I think anti-vision leads you. in that direction.
And so I'm in the kitchen, I'm just pouting and slamming and feeling sorry for myself and you know She came around the island and just hugged me. and just said, hey, I don't know what's going on in you. Um But I love you and I'm not going anywhere. And I went, oh, there's a family program. I won't tell you what I thought, but I was like, oh, crap.
It's me. It's not her. It's me. It was both of them. And so, but I could see clearly at that moment that all of the, yeah.
Yeah. Get better at that was gone in me. And I was like, no, no, no, I've got something broken in me. And that's when I went and started to get help. And then these things are starting to happen.
And then now you've got to figure out.
Okay, how do we do this now? We've been in this dance, you know, at that point, probably five years. And then the next two that we would say seven were hard, the next two were learning a new dance. Learning how we're going to fight, how we're going to express ourselves, how vulnerable can we be, what can I actually trust you with. Do you think every marriage, every person marriage has to come to that realization, oh, it's me.
Yes. I think the best marriages do. Me too. The best marriages do. I was so prideful thinking if Dave would get his act together, which could be great.
And then I had that thing thinking, oh, It's me. It's so humbling. It was always me, though. But it's both, that's my me. I think that's the start of getting rid of our baggage.
Man, it was wonderfully crushing. It was wonderfully crushing. I mean, and also, you know, in the ministry, your story is very similar because. You can find your life outside the home. No question.
Because you're in a position where you have power and the lights are on you and you're preaching and all that stuff. And if you'd said to her, and it's part of our story. many of our listeners have heard it, but I didn't say it to her in our kitchen. I said it to her on stage in front of a thousand women that she asked me to come speak with her at, that I feel like everywhere I go outside the home, I get cheered and I come home and I get booed. Yeah.
You know, I said that to the women. I try to say, hey, ladies, this is how it feels for us.
So I look over to Ann. She's like, what just happened? He's never said that to me ever. Can you imagine that drive home is like, you think I'm booing you? I'm helping you.
I'm not booing you. But there's also that part of me. You're more kind. You're trying to be a perfectionist. I am the one that's more verbal than Dave.
So I'm like, oh, you think you're so amazing. Dave, you're so amazing. Like, maybe you could be that here. Yeah. So what did it look like as you transitioned?
To a new dance. You know, seven years in, and you're starting this new dance. Yeah, I think. Both of us were trying to grow in trusting each other with the parts of us that were super tender. Yes.
And then learning Oh gosh, that just triggered the heck out of me. What was that? Yeah, yeah. The root. That is not personal, and that felt.
Deeply personal to me. And I know her. I know she's not trying to poke that. And so then it was just. You know, trying and failing at, hey, that.
Gosh, we're still doing it. I mean, it just happened yesterday morning. It'll probably never end. No, yeah, but now we've got language. We want to hear.
Yeah, it's.
So I can get. Like Yeah, I can get just like a low-grade agitation that's not tied to anything. I have no idea. It's just a whole trade agitation. I think it has to do with expectations.
And so this is a week for us. I mean, this is a long, full week. And here we are. Here we are. Just jammed that in there.
Talk about your marriage. And so I woke up early and I had some things that I needed to get done. I've got deadlines that other people are waiting on. And so I got up early to kind of tackle that. And then Lauren got up.
She actually got up earlier than I was expecting her to get up and came in. And I, you know, I got her coffee. That's kind of a ritual and set her coffee by her Bible and her journal. Then I sat back down and then she was like, did I tell you about my conversation with Sarah yesterday? And then I'm just thinking, no.
Oh my gosh, I have got it. I thought I waited long. I thought I waited for a good moment. Apparently I did not. And then, so then I know what's right.
But my heart and its knowledge of what's right versus what it wants is a very real internal battle. Yep. And so I literally shut my computer, I turned and faced her. Wow. But in my head, I'm thinking, surely this is over in three to five minutes.
Is it going on? Oh my god. You said, I don't know. That's what I'm telling you. The state of my heart was not such that I could take time.
I'm just kind of, I'm looking at her in her face. I am not with her. I am not, man. I am. In my heart.
I'm in my heart going, if I don't get that done by the time I leave to do this. I am gonna owe a lot of people an apology. And so I'm just, oh, and then, okay. I mean, I get it. Oh, oh, all right.
And then that made me even, I mean, it just set like this low-grade agitation.
So then I'm snapping at Nora to get out of it. She's like, 15 more minutes. I'm like, no, you told me this was the time you wanted to get up. I'm not letting you switch the time.
So feet on the floor. And then I was just chirpy.
Well, I don't think I was rude. I was just shirking. You're just short. And so then I'm in the bathroom. I'm about to leave.
I got the thing done. And I was just like, hey, I've got that thing going on in me. It's not about you. I'm just. Like, I can just feel I'm a little agitated.
I've got a lot going on. I've got a lot.
So, that would have, we had to learn how to do that. I like that language. I've got that thing going on in me. Yeah, and it's a very confusing. I don't understand it.
You know it. You know, yeah, she knows it. I don't understand it. Like, what is that? Like, I love this woman.
I said it to Dave at the airport a few days ago. I'm like, ooh, there's something going on. It's that same thing. He's just snappy. Yeah.
And when it's not about me, I can laugh at it. Right. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's always like, is it about me? Because it's not like, oh, man.
Yeah. Well, you can help me with the other stuff. I mean, how did this celebrate recovery thing, you know, help you? You know, it's really funny. I preach Sunday at a church.
I'm sort of new there. And this lady, one of the ushers, I was trying to do that. I'm going to go out in the lobby and meet people. And so I'm doing it. I'm walking back in the auditorium.
And this woman goes, hey, I've been wanting to share this with you. And she hands me the poker chip. I'm celebrating recovery. And I didn't realize what it was. And I took it and left.
I'm like, thanks. And then she goes, wait, wait, wait, no, I'm showing you that. That's an episode. Michael, thanks. I put them in my pocket.
She goes, What is your problem? Like, oh, buddy, you know what that is? No idea. I mean, but did that really change something to help you? Yeah, it did.
I started, I went through the steps. Yet, I think as a, you know, I grew up First Baptist, Longview, Texas. You know, it was a wonderful home, church home to grow up in. But You know, doing the chance that you do, like, kind of like AA and celebrity. It was very, um.
It was just unsettling, but in the best way where it felt uncomfortable. But I was like, this is good for me to feel uncomfortable and to kind of shake things up of just what I do.
So you went through the whole program. I went through steps. I led a group through steps. It was really freeing to kind of answer these questions in a confidential setting with people I didn't really know well and to be vulnerable and for them to look at me. I mean, there were answers that I gave that I thought, surely they're going to look at me like my head is coming off, you know.
But they didn't. They're like, okay, thanks for sharing. I was like, oh my gosh, like, I didn't die. They didn't run out the door, you know?
So it was very freeing to be vulnerable and then just to have the grace of God actually meet my heart to see the things that I thought were okay that weren't okay. You know, to try to be perfect, to try to be good. Isn't that honorable? I was like, no, Jesus did that for you. And yes, do we want to live a life?
That pleases him, absolutely. But we cannot earn his love and his favor, he just gives it freely. And so that was something that I needed to work into my heart more deeply than I knew. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I saw an interview.
I don't know if you saw it. Maybe last year, Carrie Newhoff with John Christ. Oh, yes. And John did that, and he said every. Person should go through Sunday recovery.
How much do you think?
So, our big tagline here at the village is: it's okay to not be okay, but God doesn't leave us there.
So, we have a huge recovery culture here. Like, there have been seasons where it's more of the front door than Sunday services. And almost every time we had mass baptisms where we were baptizing, not like stuff you see in the news. We never baptized like a thousand people on a Sunday, but when we would baptize 30, 40 people and they would read their testimonies, 80% of them came to recovery. And I think you guys model that because you can say go to celebrate recovery, but what you model is that authenticity of just saying, man, we messed up this week, just two days ago.
You know, and I think people are relieved. Like, ah, well, it doesn't help anybody for me to stand up there and wear a cape. Like, that's not going to help anybody. No, it's going to hurt them. Yes.
And I won't do it. And so we have been, we have done a good job. And then I would just say, Like, I still say the first seven years of our marriage were brutal. And you would see, like, some people, you can see new people in the crowd being like, And I always have to go, my wife knows I'm saying that. It wasn't like she was laying in bed next to me during that season going, all my girlhood dreams have come true to this man.
We were both in a tough spot. This is and then the number of people Over, you know, I've been here, it'll be 23 years this year. The number of people that were like, the second you said that, I knew I could be here. Yeah. Um and so I just was we were never neither one of us were ever interested in Plain pastor and first lady.
Yes. Like we're very much human beings first, children of God. And that means we're being sanctified. Do you think couples do you think all couples need a group where they can totally be themselves and reveal their struggle? I think so.
Deep healing only takes place in community. I don't think you can deeply heal. By yourself. I mean, what's that look like for you guys? Because I'm thinking of listeners, watchers, not having that.
What's it look like? And how do they get it? Yeah. Yeah. They want to be in your group, so we're going to invite them.
Mine is very close to the market. It's been set for a while. And it's, gosh, that is such a hard question to answer, unfortunately, because it's so different for people, like where you find that community. Because there has to be reciprocity there. You have to find people that want it too and that are willing to be as vulnerable as you're wanting to go.
And sometimes it's a home group.
Sometimes it's group like couples within a home group that you can just kind of feel, okay, I think they're wanting some of the same things we're wanting. I think it helps to have proximity to either be working together or kids. Kids, yes. And so I think just keeping your eyes open, asking the Lord to show you, okay, who are people in our lives already that you are kind of drawing towards some vulnerability and just using discernment with that. And I think it probably does take kind of taking the first step and kind of seeing, hey, are you willing that we are wanting this?
Are you guys wanting this? I don't know. I feel like you probably get this question more than I do. I mean, do you have the same couples for years? Yes.
Yeah. And it's, we've, some, there's been some flex because some have moved away. Right. Um but there are two couples in particular. It's been like 15 years.
Well with one of them twenty. Yeah, one of them twenty and then yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
We had the same thing and we you know, it's interesting that um At one point we didn't know it, but one of the wives was having an affair. Oh, yeah, yes. And nobody knew. And then it came out, and I remember I knew something was going on. I remember walking with her saying, I don't know what's going on, but I want you to know.
I don't, and I just said this out of nowhere. I didn't think it was happening. Even if you would have an affair, we would be right with you. Yeah, right beside you. Yes.
And then it came out that week where that was happening. And they made it. They made it. And they wouldn't have made it without this group. Oh, I believe it.
No, you better be embedded. That's why I'm always trying to say, hey, the command in the scripture is not that you go to church, but that you belong to one. Those are two very different ideas.
So I had a man talk to me. He he said every man It was kind of a leadership kind of thing where he's like, every man needs a king's table. And he was using David as an example. They need a Joab who's like, what hill are we taking? What battle are we fighting?
What? And then they need a Nathan to go, you're an idiot. Like, I can't believe you didn't see this. I can't believe you didn't fear the Lord. I can't believe.
And then you need a Jonathan, a guy that just loves your soul. And he was pointing out that on David's ascent, all three of those guys are present. But then Jonathan dies. And here comes Bathsheba. And without that other man that's the lover of your soul, he's not tied to your platform.
He's not tied to you being the CEO. He's not tied to your success. He just loves who God made you. And it's this kind of deep friendship of care and concern where he'll just, like my guy, he'll just go, you're right, you just seem off. Or in that meeting, you were pretty quick to power up when it didn't feel like that was necessary.
Everything all right? How's Lauren? Do I need to call Lauren? And Lauren knows him really well. And so I have tried to kind of take that idea of a king's table and go, who's the older man that I'm sane?
Any inconsistency in me pointed out. I don't want any difference between who I'm on stage, who I am with my wife, and who I am. He's got the proximity. Tell me.
So, my elders know: if at my year in review I find out something that you don't like that I'm doing, I am going to be a special kind of angry if you just sat on that for six months and waited for the, I want it quick, fast, real time. That's how I learn. But I think that You have to invite it. Because most people don't know how to do this. And so, by saying, I want to be a man of integrity, I don't want any secrets.
I mean, I share my tax returns with these guys. Like, I don't want to sing, I don't want anybody to ever walk up to me and go, Guess what? I found out about you, and have anything in me go, What? Yeah. Like, no, no, no.
You, you, you have full access to my life. She has, like, she can look at my phone whenever she wants. She can, and us. And like, who are you texting with? And, like, I don't, I don't want to live.
I'm not paranoid. Not at all. Is that a this guy that shared that with you? Did you say it was a guy that shared it with you? Yeah.
Is that a book? That should be a book. It should be. You should write that. And I'm going to, nobody write this until I can get to it.
I just took notes. It's fine. It's fine. And I think it's true for women, too. You wouldn't have to cause the Queen's table.
We caught the Queen's Table. Yeah. In fact, I shot on my podcast, The Overcomers, me and two of these guys that are in that circle. We sat and we just talked about this stuff. Like, what does it actually look like?
How is it built over the years? What's the price that's paid? What's the benefit for the price paid? And in the comments and YouTube, they're like, when's Lauren going to do the Queen's table? And I was like, I'll talk to her.
She needs to get on here.
So, what do you guys do in terms of boundaries? Because in ministry, we talked early about that, and as our church grew and grew and grew, it's like, wow, we got to have boundaries. Women come up to me after a sermon and they want prayer, and I'm like, Yeah, go talk to her. You know, it's like, yeah, we had to have those.
So, what'd that look like? I don't mentor or meet with women that aren't Lauren. We have a Beautiful staff of really gifted women ministers, and they are. More than willing and available. But I don't disciple women.
I don't meet alone with women. I don't. I mean, they might come into a room that I'm in with like a triage kind of moment for one reason or another, but Yeah, but then we do have Like, we do have friends that are the opposite sex, but in an appropriate way. Right. Yeah.
Yeah. Let's shift it because you guys, I feel like everything you're talking about is like this wealth of information. But I also want to hear about parenting. Yeah. And so, as we were talking, and let me just say, too, one of the things I love about you two in terms of your relationship is your friendship.
We have a lot of fun. I know, you can tell, you can see it, even on Instagram, on posts, like they really like each other. We do. That's why we're not worried ultimately about, like, we'll miss. When Nora's gone, that'll be a transition.
You're well-being. But I'm not, we have not cultivated a life where we have to get to know each other. Yeah, you can't eat it. You're gonna love it. Oh, we are because we're that way and it's a joy.
Yeah. I mean, even sometimes when I come over now, I'm like, what are you doing here? I'm supposed to be here. You know, get out of here. We're trying to go, what can we do?
Our hobbies don't overlap.
So we're trying to go develop a not. I mean, he does jiu-jitsu. I'm gonna go. You gotta go pickleball. I love pickleball.
And we have dominated lately. We've been 7-0 on our last little tip. Let's go. We're about to build a pickleball court out there. Yeah, we're putting one in our yard.
One in our yard, yeah. And then I think I'm really invested in, even though I'm not on staff at the village, I'm really invested in the village and his role. And I'm so I love talking shop at home. I'm like, what's going on? How can I pray?
What do you? I'll give feedback on what I think.
So he loves that. I actually do. I do. I do too. I was.
You want their feedback. You want their wisdom. Like a matriarchical authority. Who's like she's just got prophetic skills that are greater than mine. And so I've often told even guys in preaching, I'm like, if you, if my voice has blessed you, then you've heard Lauren's voice.
It's so sweet.
So I'm always, I want it from her. She sees differently than I do, and I need it. Yeah, we both. And so I've not been the guy that were like, I'm not talking shop with you because you won't be able to forgive them later. Or I've just not been that guy.
She has not shown herself. Has she ever texted you while you're preaching and told you what to do on the stage? No, but she has been quick after to go, that's not a real, that's not a real word. No, this is Dave's security. He does.
It's Sunday. She's watching. If you're listening to me and you think, oh, you could add this or do that. Oh, I do every sermon. You asked me.
You say that you invited her. I want it to be at least a lot of people. It'll come up on his stage. Maybe she forgot. She forget.
She's like, let me make this. This would be helpful, right? She's always right. She's 100% right.
So, how have you built the friendship? If it isn't common interest, I just think we like each other. We do. We just like each other. We like spending time with each other.
And I think we have. Common interest, we like good food, yeah. Food, we like hotels, we like nice hotels, stories that's so worldly, but we like it. It's okay, it's all right, we like a nice hotel, more bougie like that, but yeah, I think just we've always liked each other, and um, we've always been-I mean, he's always been my best friend, um, and so I don't what would you say to the couples that are thinking we don't have that, right? Yeah, so the Friendship with anyone has to be cultivated.
Like it just has to be cultivated. And I know somebody's like, well, me, I met this guy where, and I'm just going, ah, probably not. Yeah. Probably not. You, you chose some proximity.
You chose some time. You chose. And then the thing, we both deeply love the Lord and love to watch him work. And, you know, Lauren writes songs and sings, and she teaches and she writes. And I'm preaching and writing and leading.
And that becomes a space where now we're talking a lot about the kingdom. We're talking a lot about what God's doing in our heart, what he's doing in this place, what he's doing through this thing God's given us to do. It's so fun. It's so fun. It's just the best because it's never.
It's never going to be over. It's just the next season. And is there an aspect that's like the spiritual part of your relationship? Because I know for us, sometimes I separated that as a pastor. I'm like leading the congregation, and I come home, and there's a sense that she's like, Could you lead me?
Not like preach the sermon at me, but be as passionate at home about God as you are on the stage. That's us. Have you experienced that? Or how do you know? I think probably Lauren has longed for me to do that more than I have, do you think?
I think so. I mean, you do a good job. But definitely when you do set the tone for our home and when you seem to be on fire and not that you're not always on fire, but there are seasons. You can't always maintain that. I mean, it just has an exponential effect on me, on the kids.
Lauren, have you ever said this one time and our listeners heard us? She knew she was like, You guys, you can tell that I'm like a very- I'm all going to the full-blown thing that the short version is one time after a long weekend of preaching. And I was even on the sideline with the lions, so it was a football season. And so I'm exhausted Sunday night, you know. Oh, yeah.
Preached, I think, seven times. Anyway, I lay in bed, and she literally says out loud. Wait, wait, wait. I first said. I watch you preach and pray.
I'm like, yes. No, you didn't say anything. She said, right out of her mouth: I love this. I wish the guy that led our church lived here. That's what she said.
Oh, my word. No, I said to be. No, you did not know you did not. She was so good at praying. No, I asked her.
I'm laying there. She said, I watched the guy who lived at a church living. And I turned around and I go. What do you mean? And I was edgy right away.
What do you mean? And she goes, I watched you this morning. You're passionate. You're casting vision. And here's where we're going.
And you're praying with it. He goes, You don't bring that here. And I went. And when you come home, you're a dud. Oh, my gosh, Sunday night.
You can't say that to a man on Sunday night. No. I think you found your Nathan. I think you found your Nathan at your house. I just found Nathan in the house with you.
And man, if God would have done that with Nathan or with David, who knows? You guys, I was so bad. We've written books of how not to do that. I jumped up and said something to the effect. I don't even know.
I got hot. I'm like, let me tell you. I know the men at this church. You got the best husband in this whole stinking church. I mean, they're losers compared to me.
But she was right. She was right in terms of I brought it. The energy. I'm not saying I should walk in the house, you know, but it was like a different level. Yeah.
Like, there was a part of me that thought when you said earlier, it's like, you know, I drive home. I have this mailbox now. It's like, take the job, put it in there. Yeah. Dad, husband, let's go.
Yeah. Second shift. I've never heard that term. That's so good. That's jail that.
And I'm like, I was not doing that. And that was on me. It's like, I need to bring the most important disciples in my life right here. What am I doing? You know, we have a book called How to Speak Life to Your Husband when all you want to do is yell at him.
I think that's amazing.
So you can say, I'm trying to get better.
So that has been something you've had to navigate as well. Yeah. A spiritual part of your marriage relationship. I think so for sure. I think I am more, and I don't quite know why.
I think I've been more timid there with Lauren than I have with others. That's a good word. That's what I do.
Well, that's a vulnerable. Yeah, maybe that's what it is: where I don't feel timid with the elders. I don't feel timid with the church. I don't, but I can feel. It's interesting.
Well, and I think part of it's like, and this is just a conversation. It might be Like you You know, in psychology, that idea of golden child. I wonder, like, if I'm just going. Gosh, she's so fierce. She's so, does she want me to lead that way?
Oh, really? And then I wouldn't even know, like, okay, what does that look like now for me to lead that way? If I know exactly how that looks if you give me a room full of 12 men or I'm speaking to, I'm trying to move a congregation. Right, right. Man, that is not going to translate to leading.
So I'm curious about that. And you're a strong leader, too.
So that word timid is that's what I have felt around it. Yeah. You would say that. And you didn't have a dad. Dave never had a dad.
I didn't have a model, but I always felt like she's so capable. She didn't need me at home. Yeah, a lot of men feel that. I would imagine. I don't know.
Especially because I feel like a lot of women, like I went to this, I went to this little prayer room yesterday and it was completely filled with women, you know, and it was the time of day, which makes more sense that women might have some flexibility there. But it does seem like women just are already kind of there. And so I can see how that would be intimidating for a man. And even for, I mean, even for you.
So I hope your listeners are encouraged. And I think for you, if I were to share just maybe an invitation of, hey, the Lord's putting. this on my heart. What do you think? I kind of want to try this out in our home or for us.
And, you know, just inviting me into that, I think, is a great way to start. Instead of, okay, this is what we're doing. You know, I for sure will be like, hold on. Yeah, there's the timidity, right? Where I'm like, so I'm helping you.
Like, or even kids, like, dad, what are you doing? The kids, I think I'm less timid with the kids and probably more timid with Lauren, but the, yeah, I don't. Like it, it is. You have always felt that way to me.
So, I've always been like, I think we're good at home. I think things are really good at home. They are. I do feel like where you are. Personally at home with the Lord is contagious.
And so I think that always helps. But yeah, just letting us to Dave, too, like, man, the power that you have. Yeah. Even with our sons, when he says something, they're like locked in. And I'm jealous of it.
Yeah. I don't think he understands the power that he carries. Oh, powerful. That's right. Not being that big leader, but just his voice.
The weight. Let's talk parenting. Yeah. Because raising kids in the ministry, and I'm guessing you had the same dream we had. We want our boys to be walking with the Lord when we're in the middle of the day.
Oh, yeah. Yes, that's what we want. How did that go, and how is that going? And what would you say to parents trying to do that? We don't have much time.
Maybe we could do like, here's something. We got 15 minutes. Do we? Yeah, Matt can be late. No, I'm kidding.
Yeah, I certainly can't. No, we can't. We can definitely do that. We got about 10 years. Here's what we did right, and here's something I wish we would have done a little differently.
Okay, there you go.
Okay, that's good. You start, babe. Yeah, she's a super processor. Than I am apparently. You're just quick.
I used to say I was fast and she was slow. And she's like, I'm not slow. I used to say that too. And I'm like, well, then are you saying I'm shallow? Anyway, we'll work through it.
We'll work through it on date night with this other conversation you guys have helped us with. But. I thought we did a Exceptional job. At time. Time.
Really? Like for all that we were doing. Like I Coached teams. I was present. I was eager to get home to be with them.
I think we did that very well. And your wife is a green. Yeah. Yes. It isn't.
I thought I did. She did. We usually look at the wife. No, yeah. And that's smart.
We brought them with us on some things. My kids have better passports than most of your people. Yeah, because he was invited to speak somewhere. To London and to Australia. And then the second thing I would say we did well is I took them with me when I went, including hospital visits.
I would take them with me if the hospital wasn't too bad. I would take them with me. I just want them. This is. This isn't daddy's job.
This is who daddy is. Oh, that's and let's go. Like, come with me. And we did. We, I mean, I like you saw me, Nora was with me at PAO.
That was a trip that Lauren couldn't go on. She had something going on. Uh, and so I said, Nora, let's go. Not taking one of our pastors. We can spend time scheming.
I'm taking my little girl. Yeah. And I'm going to get great time with her. I'm going to steal away one day and spend all day at Disney. And I'm, I'm laying my yes down.
Yeah. So there's no reason for me to say no.
So you, you tell me what you want to do. And so I think we did that really well. Um Gosh, the list of what we didn't do well, I think, is much longer. Yes. I think it's much longer.
I think there were things about each one of our kids that we caught late. And by the time we caught it. It there there had been some damage done. Um each of my kids responded differently to be a Matt Chandler's kid. I had a kid that hated it, loved the perks, but hated it.
Like When Like when this kid was a kid kid. Like, if other little kids at the Christian school would try to be this kid's friend. There was this kind of Do they really want to be my friend? And then if they ever ask about me. She'd put him in the category of And then later.
moved to public school and there were people, oh, aren't Aren't you that priest's kid or aren't you that and Holy kid, holy kid, and she dang sure wasn't going to be that. Yeah, yeah. And we caught that stuff late. And then the other two have had different, but like it. What would you have done if you had caught it?
I think all I know to do is go after their heart in it and try to soothe whatever part is broken, try to get at, which the kid might not even understand. Right. They probably don't even understand. Right. And so, I mean, you know, this as a parent, you're always.
brutal on yourself more than Um Yeah, I think that I think me getting bad sick. Yeah. When they were little, little, marked them in a unique way. How old are you? How old were they when that happened?
Six, four, and six months. What do you mean? What way did it mark them?
So I think. For one of my kids, they had a very hard time trusting God after that. Like even though Like even though God healed me, and I would bring that up. I'm here. I've been healed.
But in that little soul, so hard to recognize that. But why would he let that happen to you? Like, why would he? And there still is a wrestle in that kid. Which is understandable.
Totally. Can he fully be trusted? Yeah. Can I really trust him with my whole life? Yeah.
Which is heartbreaking for me. Yeah. Heartbreaking for me. Yeah, man. Um And so we still all we all still ask that question.
Yeah, no doubt. We do. Oh, that's that's interesting. I think, too, we allowed some influences in their lives that I think we did not use discernment in and I think we just I know the Lord can use anything, but if I could go back, I would have stayed in there more instead of just letting that person kind of come in. People that I trusted, you know, adults, you know, like another kid.
Yeah, where I just thought they would be a good influence, and there was just an unhealthy back edge to it. You know, where I could have. been there.
So you wish you would have stayed in that relationship. Yes. A little bit tighter, not kind of given that person space.
So I think that's that's a regret I or something I would do differently. And then even just Speaking into who God made them to be, like being more vocal about what I saw in them that was good, that I know God planted in them. I know I said it, but I'm just like, did I say it enough? I'm not sure. Because I think so much, so often we can get stuck on their behavior or we see a trajectory.
And we're training them. We're trying to avoid pain as much as possible. And so that can communicate maybe a message to them that just through their little filters gets scared. Or probably the voice of the enemy just grabs it, you know, and uses something that you did not intend it to be used that way.
So, some of it's, gosh, in your control, some of it's out of your control. And so, another thing would be just praying, just continue. Like, I think I prayed well. More contending prayer. But more contending prayer as they were growing up.
Yeah. But I contend now. How about adult kids? You've got one married. Yeah.
And that's why I feel different. Yes. And that's why I contend even more because I realize how much control I do not have. I don't think that is talked about enough with adult children. You have no control anymore.
And it takes your breath away. Like, I have no control. And you better pick your spots for the sake of the relationship. Yeah. So you want to crush that.
You don't.
So it's a challenge, but just learning to be a friend and to. Not say things and to pray them instead. That's why prayer becomes so huge. The older you get, like, it's the only thing I have. Yeah.
It's the only thing I can do. Which was probably true when we were younger people. Exactly. But we thought that we were seeing it now. But we thought we had control.
I got that. Exactly right. It's certainly an illusion. Yes. And like cheering them on in the adulting decisions they're making and even in their mistakes.
Like, you know, their mistakes have been made. And I'm like, you know what? I hate that for you, but I'm so proud of how you have been resilient in this and you've made the most of it and you haven't given up. And I, that to me is more impressive than if everything went great. Yes.
That's good. That's really good.
Well, I'll end with this. I know, you know, your older man has another meeting he has to go to. Your older man. Older man. And I'm going with prayer meetings.
No, thanks a ton. I know your lives is busy. Oh, my God. Thank you. For opening up your church and letting us come in and do this.
It's been a privilege. Thank you. Thank you guys. Thanks for watching. Your impact on the world.
Seriously, your impact has been. It's And it's cool, Matt, because when our son, our middle son got married first, and I think they were in their first year of marriage, and they're like figuring out, growing. And she said, I'm listening to this pastor right now. I'm like, who is it? Matt Chandler.
And so I started listening to you. Like, when I want to hear who she's listening to, I'm like, oh, my God. This is so good.
So thank you for impacting. The entire country and parts of the world. And Lauren, you are incredible. She is. Yeah.
Thank you for making Matt younger and better. Both of those are true. Both of those are true. A living job. Hey, thanks for watching.
And if you like this episode, you better like it. Just hit that like button. Yeah, and we'd like you to subscribe.
So, all you gotta do is go down and hit the subscribe. I can't say the word subscribe. Hit the subscribe button. I don't think I can say this word. Like and subscribe.
Look at that, you say it so easy. Subscribe. There he goes.
