Making Money an Asset to Marriage

Money is just one kind of asset in the world of finance, but can it also be an asset in marriage? Hi, I'm Rob West. Money is usually cited as one of the top reasons for divorce.

It's almost never seen as a way to actually strengthen a marriage. Dr. Gary Chapman joins us today to talk about how you can make that happen. Then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. This is faith and finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, we're delighted to have Dr. Gary Chapman with us today. He's a pastor, speaker, counselor, and author of many books on Christian relationships, including the Love Languages book that you're probably very familiar with. Dr. Chapman, great to have you with us. Well, thank you, Rob. It's great to be with you. As I shared with you before our broadcast here today, Dr. Chapman, my wife, Julie, and I are actually working through right now a couple's guide to a growing marriage. It's been really meaningful to us in our own marriage. But when I got to the chapter on money in marriage, I immediately thought, wow, we got to share this on the program.

So I'm delighted you're here today to talk about this. It's, of course, a really important topic, as you well know, as a counselor and a pastor. But one thing we want to make clear from the beginning is we're not talking about how having more money will make your marital relationship better, are we? Absolutely not. Some of the happiest people and strongest marriages I know are folks who are just making enough money to pay the bills and keep everybody fed and clothed.

Yes, that's exactly right. And some of the people struggle the most are those who have lots and lots of money. So now money doesn't make or break a marriage.

Yeah, that's so true. Dr. Chapman, we bring to the marriage different money backgrounds, different personalities, different wiring. How does that affect our relationships? Well, I think a lot of it does have to do with the families in which we grew up in and what we observed or what we were taught, you know, by our parents. For example, I was taught by my parents, and this was a long time ago when I got a 50 cents a week allowance.

Five cents of it went to God. Well, I came to my marriage with that concept, you know. Fortunately, my wife grew up in a family that also taught tithing, so we didn't have any struggles over that.

Of course, we didn't have much money in those early days. But I do think a lot of it has to do with, you know, how we grew up in the families we grew up in. Yeah, we're also wired so differently, aren't we? I mean, some of us hold money tightly, others more loosely. Invariably, God brings together a spender with a saver, and we've got to bring that into the equation too, don't we?

That's right. We have to accept the reality that we have different personalities in many areas, and certainly it is when it comes to money. Because I think, you know, the common struggle that many couples have is, well, you know, why did you buy that? That was too much.

Or you could get it cheaper over here. All those kind of arguments. Just simply because we're human, and we have different thoughts and different feelings related to money, as with the rest of life.

Yeah, that's exactly right. So then what is required, Dr. Chapman, to get both spouses on the same page financially so that money actually becomes an asset to the marriage? I think communication, communication, communication.

We've got to talk about this part of our marriage. And I know some folks have stopped talking, because when they try to talk, they end up arguing. But I think we have to learn how to listen to each other and try to be empathetic. That is, try to put ourselves in their shoes, and try to see the world from their eyes. Because this is typically not a right or wrong, you know, total issue.

It's more of what we're talking about, personality differences. So I think if we learn to listen to the other person, respect them as a human, and realize, okay, we're gonna feel differently, but let me hear, let me hear what your perspective is. What would be the best way for us to handle this from your perspective? And then I share mine, and you listen to me. And if we do disagree, then we ask, okay, what might we try that we could both agree on, you know, because we're on the same team. We're not enemies.

That's exactly right. And I suspect that communication can't just begin the day we get married. It should probably start before we get married, huh? I really encourage couples before they get married to discuss the whole issue of money.

Did you grow up a tither? Do you think we ought to give 10% of our money to God as a starting place? How much money you think we ought to save? Yeah, I think we need to do that before we get married, ideally. Absolutely. Well, we're talking about money as an asset to marriage today with Dr. Gary Chapman.

It's a real treat. This is just one chapter in his book, A Couple's Guide to a Growing Marriage. When we come back, we'll look at some key responsibilities in your marriage related to money, and we'll continue to unpack this.

Back with more with Dr. Gary Chapman just after this. Stay with us. Every day, Faith by is working to meet people right where they are. Through our national radio program, app, and website, we're helping people put their faith in God and not in money and possessions.

And we're encouraging and equipping Christians to have a passionate pursuit for sacrificially living and giving the money entrusted to them. If you believe in and have benefited from Faith by, would you consider becoming a monthly Faith by patron? Learn more about the Faith by patrons membership at faithby.com and click Give. Are you looking for a financial professional who aligns with your biblical values? Certified Kingdom advisors are trusted financial, legal, or accounting professionals who have completed a rigorous certification program to ensure they provide biblically wise financial advice as part of their practice. You can find a local CKA professional in your area by going to faithby.com and clicking Find a CKA. Delighted to have you with us today on faith and finance.

I'm Rob West. Joining me today, Dr. Gary Chapman, among other books, he's the author of A Couple's Guide to a Growing Marriage. We're talking today about one chapter in that book on making money an asset to marriage.

That's right. Money can often drive conflict in a marriage. We want to flip the script and see if we can make it an asset in your marriage. Before the break, Dr. Chapman was talking about our differences in personality and really the key being communication. We want to talk, though, about some of the financial responsibilities, and Dr. Chapman, you unpack three of them in the book.

I'd love for you to start with that first responsibility. I think the first is to honor God with what we've done. This is true in all of life, but I think it's also true in money. The Bible is pretty clear about that. In the Old Testament, of course, God laid down 10% Israel to tithe of their possessions and all of that.

Jesus affirmed that in the New Testament. That's a starting place, in my opinion, for Christians is to just say, we're going to give 10% of whatever God brings our way back to God. Many times, I give primarily that through the church. You can also give to other Christian organizations to be sure.

I think that's the first thing. If you put God first in your life, then when it comes to money, you should be thinking in terms of, okay, what does God want of us first of all in our relationship? We can, of course, have differences of opinion on a whole host of things. Giving is one of those. Again, going back to our earlier conversation, a lot of this could be informed by how money was modeled or handled growing up. How do you reconcile those differences of opinion, Dr. Chapman, about giving? I think we have to respect each other's ideas and say, okay, you prefer that we give our money to, and you name a Christian organization, rather than giving it through the church. The reason for that, very likely, is that they grew up in a family that supported that other organization.

So, consequently, they have friends in that organization, people they know. I think if we understand why we want to give in a certain way or to certain organizations, then we have to hear that out and respect the other person's perspective. If we differ on that, then maybe we decide, okay, we'll give part of it here and part of it here. The important thing is to work toward unity, because the scripture pattern is the Bible. We're not opposing each other. We're on the same team, so let's get our plan together and how we're going to give. Dr. Chapman, we hear from folks periodically that one spouse has come to Christ after marriage, the other is not yet a believer.

They're having trouble reconciling that. How would you counsel that believing spouse to handle the giving conversation with an unbelieving spouse that doesn't want to give? I think essentially what we can do is simply share our heart as to why this is true and that you do have this relationship with God and you recognize that really, he gives us breath every single day.

We're here because of the love of God and the gift of God. Therefore, I just want to honor God in this way. Many times, I think a non-Christian would be willing to accept that, even though maybe they don't even believe in God, but they honor your respect, your belief in God. We can't make the other person agree with us, and I certainly wouldn't steal money to give to God. God's not that hard up. I think if they're not willing, then I think my feeling is, you say, okay, then we won't do that, but I want you to know that I'm going to be praying that God will help us get together on this because this is really, really important to me. I think when they see that kind of spirit rather than a fighting spirit, they're far more likely to come around to giving. That's good.

So helpful. Let's move on to the second, financial responsibility. I know it has to do with family and even lifestyle. What would you have us to know here? I've always found that verse interesting in 1 Timothy 5 and verse 8. It says, if anyone does not provide for his own relatives, his own family, especially his immediate family, he has denied the faith and he is worse than an unbeliever. Wow.

He's not mincing words. It's pretty clear. God's big on providing for our families. Cultures are different, of course. There was a day years and years ago when the husband was the one that made the money and brought it home and provided for his family. Today, many, many, many wives are working full time outside the home, which is fine. But I do think we have a responsibility and the emphasis is on if a man is not willing to work. Now, obviously, a person has to be able to get a job and sometimes that's difficult in certain places. But a person who just chooses not to work and invest his time and pleasure are worse than that.

He's off on drugs or alcohol and therefore can't. It says he's worse than an unbeliever. He's speaking to Christians. We demonstrate our love for God by providing for our families. I think that's pretty clear in the scriptures.

How do we find the balance, though? What about that couple that's searching for the appropriate lifestyle to maintain as believers? Well, that's often the case because we have different ideas of what a normal lifestyle ought to be like. Again, I think we have to share our perspectives. One spouse may have been brought up going every other week to the beach or some other place with their family doing things. That's what they feel like doing. But maybe we can't afford that.

Your parents could, but you can't afford that right now. But I think to say, well, honey, we can't do it now and we can't do it that often, but let's do it. How about this?

Once a month or whatever. I think if we, again, respect each other's ideas, we're far more likely to find a meeting place. The problem comes when we take the attitude, I know I'm right on this and we're going to do it my way. You're just destroying what you want to have in a marriage. And that is a loving, supportive, caring relationship. So I think we have to be open to share and try to find a meeting place. And sometimes that meeting place is in between the two ideas that the two of you had. Sometimes one of you will go to the other side after you hear their perspective, you'll think, okay, I think we can do that. It's not what I particularly would like, but I think we can do that. So it's a matter of seeking unity and that only comes through open communication.

Yeah, that's exactly right. Well, the third financial responsibility has to do with saving for the future. One of the exercises you have couples do in the book is to write down in percentages how much of their income they would like to save, spend and give. Do you find that spouses are often surprised by each other's answers? Yeah, I think they are.

I sometimes make the poem when I'm doing premarital counseling. I said, there's only three things you can do with money. We're talking about them. One is you can give it away. One is you can save it. One of them is you can spend it.

So what would be a good place to start? I sometimes suggest this to young couples who don't have a whole lot of money. I say, what if you give 10% to God and save 10% and then live on the 80%? And I just throw it out as a possibility of something they might want to consider because many of them have not yet considered it until they do something like this in a book. I wrote a book called Things I Wish I'd Known Before We Got Married. And one of them is I wish I'd known that we had talked about finances before we got married. Because if a couple can go into marriage, having agreed on the amount they're going to give and amount they're going to save, and then they can order their lifestyle in keeping with that 80%.

So they don't think in terms of everything we have, but 80%. Oh, that's so good. Well, Dr. Chapman, we've just scratched the surface. We're going to have to have you back sometime. But thanks for stopping by today. Well, thank you. Great to be with you today. That's Dr. Gary Chapman, the author of A Couple's Guide to a Growing Marriage. You can pick it up wherever you buy books. We're back with your calls just after this 800-525-7000.

We'll be right back. We are grateful for support from Praxis Mutual Funds. Praxis Mutual Funds has seven impact strategies that are designed to create positive real world change. More information is available at praxismutualfunds.com. The fund's investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses are contained in the prospectus and summary prospectus. This and other information is available at praxismutualfunds.com. Investments involve risk.

Principal loss is possible. Foresight Fund Services, LLC. Are you struggling to fit your faith into your practice as a Christian financial advisor? The Certified Kingdom Advisor designation teaches you a step-by-step process to confidently deliver advice that aligns with Christian values. Discover the skills you need to help your clients make a kingdom impact.

Get started today by enrolling in the CKA educational program at kingdomadvisors.com slash get certified. That's kingdomadvisors.com slash get certified. Welcome back to Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West. Good news, every line's full. That means we've got some great questions coming up. Let's dive in.

South to Miami, Florida we go. Hi, Maria. Thank you for calling. Go right ahead.

Yes, hi. I have a question. My dad has me as a beneficiary on his saving account, but now he wanted to add me on his account and then now he changed his mind and he wants me to be the only one on the account and take it off. But I was thinking if he do that, then I have to pay taxes on that money, right?

Well, yes, not when you receive it, but you'd pay taxes on the interest. But let me back up for a second. What is he trying to accomplish? Why does he want to do this?

Well, he's already old. He's like almost 90 and I don't know why he wants to put it on my name now. And I'm like, yeah, but I don't know if that's good enough, but is this money and he can use it whenever he wants to. But he's been changing his mind. Now he wants me to be the only one on the account and end up like, I don't know what to do. Yeah. Well, there's a couple of things here.

I mean, essentially what would happen is if he changes the title of the account over to you, he's essentially making a gift to you of the amount in the savings account. How much is in there? I don't know. A hundred thousand.

Okay. A hundred thousand. So he'd have to file a gift tax form with the IRS because he's making a gift to you of a hundred thousand dollars. And now let's say it's earning interest, you know, at 5%.

So it makes $5,000 over the next year. Well, that's $5,000 that's going to be interest income that will be taxed to you as the account owner as ordinary income. So now you're going to be paying taxes on the interest, which if it was a $10,000 account, wouldn't be a big deal. You know, a hundred thousand dollar account all of a sudden, especially at today's interest rates, that becomes meaningful.

There's two other considerations. One is it, if in fact this is money that he uses on occasion, it's going to make it more difficult for him to use it because it's your money. And so it's going to have to just practically run through you, although you could set up mechanisms for him to do that. Maybe he gets a check, trek writing privileges on it, or he gets, you know, login credentials from you for the online account. The second thing is if he's really just trying to make sure that there is an efficient transfer of this asset to you at his death, well, putting you on the account is not necessary. You know, through the you being named as the beneficiary, which it sounds like that's what the way it was set up, you're going to get it outside of probate anyway.

So it's going to come immediately to you. It's not going to go through the probate court. And then it remains his asset, which means he's still liable or will be liable between now and his death for paying the taxes on the interest.

So I think you just need to step back and say, is this really necessary? And if really he's just trying to create an efficient way to transfer it to you at death, well, a beneficiary is going to do that. Does that make sense? Yes, that makes sense. What about if we put the account on both names? Well then you would, yeah, well, based on the percentage of ownership. So if it's a joint account, you would each be responsible for 50% of the interest with regard to taxes. Oh, okay.

Okay. And then his 50%, it would need to state that you're the beneficiary of that. Otherwise his 50% and his death would become a part of his estate. And then it would be passed according to his will, which may not necessarily mean it comes to you.

You'd have to look at the will. So I think perhaps maybe an additional conversation with him just to try to figure out exactly what he's trying to accomplish, because there may be some unintended consequences here that he's not thinking through with regard to putting you on the account today. It's not quite as simple as it sounds. I hope that helps, Maria. Thank you for calling today. May the Lord bless you. To Indiana. Hi, Vicki.

Go ahead. Yes, I just had a new roof put on my rental house and there's a $4,000 payout out of pocket pocket. It needs some updates.

The windows are in bad shape. It needs a new water heater. And I was thinking about refinancing. And what I saw was adding, it would add five more years to my payments because I've paid to the point that I'm at 15 years to pay it off. But if I get a 20-year loan, it stays at about the same interest rate, but it also adds like $60 to my payment that I make now. And I didn't know if that was a smart way to do it or not.

I'm kind of at a loss. Okay, so you're refinancing anyway, is that right? No, I'm thinking about refinancing. Okay, so tell me about the current mortgage that you have. I owe about $24,000. And the interest rate is at 7%.

Okay. And why were you refinancing anyway? Because I have to come up with $4,000 out of pocket because of the new roof that got put on.

Right, right. But you wouldn't have to touch the existing mortgage. You could get a home equity loan for that. And then you don't pay the costs associated with refinancing the whole thing, especially if you're not going to improve your interest rate at all. Right.

Yeah. So what I would probably do is just leave that right where it is. And the other thing is with this being a rental property, it's going to be a higher interest rate anyway. So if you refinance it, I suspect it could even go up, although maybe you've looked into that. But I think what I would likely do is just leave that where you've got it and then just borrow as little as possible in the form of a home equity loan to cover the renovations or the maintenance expenses that you have. I mean, you could certainly compare a refinance, but if it's going to cost you more, I'd probably leave that existing loan alone and just do it through a home equity loan.

The key is get a fixed interest rate, try to pay both of them off as quick as you can. Our friends at Movement Mortgage could help movement.com forward slash FaithFi. Quickly to Grand Rapids. David, you'll be our final caller. Go ahead. Right.

Hey, thanks for taking my call. My wife and I will be retiring here in two years and looking at we're debt free. We have a great retirement income going to be coming in cash flow. And at the end of the day, we want to buy a truck and a camper to pull. And so we are financially, we are definitely debt free and we have a great pool of income that will be coming in and we just want to know what would be the best means to finance to actually go and buy that truck in a couple of years in that trailer.

Yeah. So, you know, I would just go out and get a loan with a fixed APR and a set repayment plan. You know, there, there are loans for both camper, you know, trailers as well as RVs, you know, as much as up to 20 years. So I would use either lending tree.

I'd probably look at bank rate, do an internet search, get at least three bids before you do this, but it sounds like a blast. And I'm so excited for you all as you enter this next season. Thanks for calling today, David. Hey, we're almost out of time, but I wanted to let you know that you don't ever have to miss a program. Just download our Faithfi app for your mobile device and take us with you anywhere. Thanks for joining us today. I look forward to talking with you again next time on Faith and Finance. Faith and Finance is provided by Faithfi and listeners like you.