Before we start the podcast, we want to announce a new resource to help you discover what it truly means to be rich toward God. We've just published a study based on the parable of the rich fool found in Luke 12, 13-21. Journey through this challenging yet life-giving parable where Jesus invites us into a more abundant life with Him. Just go to faithfi.com slash give to request a copy of the Rich Toward God study today with your gift of $25 or more. That's faithfi.com slash give. Thank you in advance for your support and partnership. Knowing where and how to give to God's kingdom can be a challenge for any one person, but all the more so if you're married. Hi, I'm Rob West.
It's a beautiful thing when couples agree on how to manage their money, how much to spend and save, but finding agreement on giving is just as important. Today, Bob Doll shares what he and his wife Leslie have learned about it. Then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.
That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, our guest Bob Doll is Chief Investment Officer and Portfolio Manager at Crossmark Global Investments. Bob joins us weekly to talk about the economy and investing, but today he's going to talk about investing in God's kingdom. Bob, great to have you with us.
Great to be here. Looking forward to it. Bob, you and Leslie wrote an article for the Gospel Coalition titled How to Plan Your Giving as a Married Couple.
We'll, of course, put a link to it in today's show notes. I know the two of you have a lot of practical experience in making your giving decisions as a couple. Of course, based on God's word. Wouldn't you agree? Yes, we do. Thankfully, he's instructed us along the way, and we've learned by doing and making mistakes.
That's exactly right. Well, unpack this for us a bit in terms of some of the keys of what you all have learned. So, I think what we've learned that every Christian either learns or should learn is this is not our money. Yeah. It is God's money.
He owns it all. And so, after a while, we figure out it's not how much we're going to give. It's how much we're going to keep, and the rest we're going to give away. Yeah. We recognize that we're on this planet for, you know, kind of a nanosecond, and we're in eternity for eternity. Yes. And therefore, focusing on the long term and God's plan becomes so much easier if we really understand that. Hmm.
And I think we've also learned, Rob, the older we get, we can't take it with us, you know? That's right. That's exactly right. John D. Rockefeller's account was famously answered.
How much did John D. leave? And he famously answered, all of it. That's right. And that encourages us to give away as well. And I love all Randy Alcorn has wrote on this subject. One that sticks with me is, God prospers us not to raise our standard of living, but our standard of giving.
Yes. And that speaks volumes to us. So there's a general principle that we knew at an earlier age, but I think we really believe and are trying to practice as we get older.
Yeah, that's exactly right. We need to renew our minds. Those are truths that we can anchor our framework for giving on. But how does that foundation, Bob, then inform the actual giving decisions you make? So it makes us more generous not to wait to get started, to be all-encompassing in how we do it. Look, you know, the article is how to plan your giving as a married couple.
It implies we've figured it out. This is an ongoing process, Rob. Sure. I think, you know, not so much now, although we still have them, but early on, this was a source of a lot of disagreement.
How much? Which ones? I mean, Leslie's propensity is always to really focus on a few causes and organizations that we know intimately.
And mine, I've never met a charity that I didn't think was good. So therein lies a lot of conflict. And so we've tried to find ways to compromise parameters that help us. For example, Leslie gives approximately 20 percent away of what we give.
I give 20. And we have veto power over certain amounts, and the other 60 we come to jointly. So we've just learned over time how to do that. Yeah. We're going to get more deeply into your system, Bob, that you and Leslie have created.
And I know you said it's a work in progress, but I want to come back to one piece that I know is important to you. And that is, many folks will wait to do their giving at death in terms of their real meaningful giving. And you all really have prioritized trying to give as much away as possible while you're alive, correct? Yeah. You know, they're saying, give it away while you know where it's going.
I use the phrase we'd like for our last check to bounce. Yes. The joy of giving is a whole lot more powerful if you do it while you're breathing than when you're six feet under, you know? Yeah, that's exactly right. And causes need the money now, Rob, not when we die.
Yeah, no question about it. So what does it look like to give as a married couple? How can we do that in a way that's productive and with unity, where we can get money connected into God's activity right now, as Bob said? Bob Dole with us today, Chief Investment Officer at Crossmark Global Investments. Much more on giving as a couple just around the corner.
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Joining me today, my good friend Bob Dole. He's Chief Investment Officer and Portfolio Manager at Crossmark Global Investments. We're talking about an article that he and his wife, Leslie, wrote recently. It was published on the Gospel Coalition's website entitled, How to Plan Your Giving as a Married Couple.
What does that look like? What is the process for giving? Obviously, you need to find something that works for you, but I know Bob and Leslie have worked through this and found something that works for them that I think will really be an encouragement to you today. Bob, before the break, you shared that it's something as simple as you directing 20 to the ministries you're passionate about, she directing 20% to hers, and then you do the bulk of it 60% together. That's something that works for you because now you can each have your own ministries and really passions reflected in your giving strategy, right? Absolutely.
Early on, we tried to agree on everything and it just took forever and created too much disagreement. And we, I hope creatively, came up with this and we're educating each other on the 20 we give individually, so we both understand it, but it's a lot more productive when it goes that way. Leslie knows some ministries intimately that I'll never know intimately and vice versa, and so let's find ways to express that. Yeah. Talk about your giving strategy with regard to the where, because I know you all have developed somewhat of a pyramid and some processes to think about where your giving ends up. Share that with us.
Sure. So, we give to over 100 causes. Some of them are individual missionaries, some are big institutions that we all know about, and we give about 90%, usually ends up being about 95, to faith-based organizations. We try to seek balances between, for example, evangelism and discipleship, between feeding the poor in spirit and the poor physically. Geography, it's not all to the US. Most of my giving, because this is where I spend most of my time, is in the US. Leslie does a lot of ministry work in the Middle East, so a lot of the money she designates go into the Middle East.
And yes, you mentioned the word pyramid. The ones we know best, the ones we're on the boards, we tend to give the most to. The ones we know the least tend to be at the bottom of the period, smaller amounts and far more of them, and then a couple of levels in between, Rob. Yeah, that's really helpful. Bob, how does prayer fit into the process of you and Leslie determining your giving each year? You know, very importantly, and again, we've learned this over time, it used to be, okay, December 31st is coming, if we're going to do what we're supposed to do from a tax standpoint, we better get the checkbook out.
And boy, it was a laborious process. As we start earlier, think about it, pray about it individually and together, that gives us a much easier process as we move forward, Rob. We try to do a better job, I tell people all the time, God gave me two ears and one mouth, I should do a far more listening than speaking, and that applies to all kinds of subjects, including the giving process with spouse. So that's really important. We try to dig into the organizations, particularly the ones we give the most to, get an update, how's it going? Take a look at their financials, take a look at their website, take a look at their 990s, who's giving how much are they giving, and that helps to inform, if we don't know them as well, what it is that God should motivate us to do. Yeah, and that's a really key point. I mean, Bob, you spend most of your work life analyzing, researching companies, you're very strategic about the investments you're making there as a portfolio manager and CIO at Crossmark Global, you try to be kingdom strategic with your giving, don't you? Hear, hear, absolutely.
I just remember God gave us a brain, and he gave us responsibility. I like to say, if this were really my money, who cares where I give it? But it's God's money, so we have to be very strategic about how we do it, not just emotional.
I mean, we all fall in love with stories, and that can be a good starting point, but it's like when I analyze companies, if I love the product, doesn't make it a good stock. And so you've got to work through, you've got to dig in, you've got to think about it, you've got to pray about it, and consider what is it that God's calling us to in the giving process. Yeah, that's really helpful. Some may be asking, where is Leslie today? She was going to join us, but she's off with one of the ministries that she's connected to, which brings us to the point about getting engaged in some of the ministries you're giving to. How is that really important?
So important. If Leslie were here, she would really emphasize that. I remember a bunch of years ago, she said, you know, I feel like a checkbook.
I just write checks. And that started the process to say, we've got to be involved in ministries. Now, there's different stages in life.
If somebody is, you know, 32, and they got three kids under the age of four, it's kind of tough to do that sort of thing. But as life progresses, and you find more time getting involved in ministries, particularly those that are kind of to the top of your giving pyramid, it's not just your check that God wants. He wants our involvement.
He wants our lives. And that's another extension of it. Yeah. Bob, I know you've served on and continue to serve on a number of boards of directors. Is that something you consider with regard to your giving, trying to get involved at that level?
Absolutely. You know, there's so many wonderful causes and so many wonderful boards to serve on. And when you're on a board, you see the thick and the thin. You see the good and the not so good in every organization.
And that's informative. And you'll hopefully help it along, not just by writing a check, but by your presence and your ideas along the way. So that's one way to get involved in a ministry is to participate on the board.
But there are lots of others as well. Volunteer! If this is an organization you love, go volunteer, help them do whatever it is that they do.
You'll get to know it better, and it'll raise your confidence level. I love that idea. Bob, what about those that are listening today that are saying, well, I'm delighted to hear that you and Leslie are on the same page, but my spouse and I aren't.
I have the giving gift that God has given me. My spouse doesn't really see that as a priority. How do we reconcile that as a married couple? You know, I come back to any reconciliation in a marriage, any subject that creates difficulty, sit down, talk about it, pray about it. When you pray, you generally come together where you know the old triangle, the closer we are to one another in prayer, the closer we become to God.
And some of those things will break through. I know that sounds an idealistic answer, but it does work. Yeah. Bob, just about 45 seconds left. The need is now, there's urgency with regard to the gospel going to the ends of the earth. Would you finish by just challenging our audience today about their opportunity to be connected into God's activity through their giving?
Sure. I come back to remember it's not your money, it's God's money. And you already said it, the time is short, the need is great, and in many cases, the cost is high.
So getting started for a lot of people is the hardest part. They might get a little here, give a little there, but get on with it. Decide how much you're going to give away and let it grow over time.
Experiment with increasing it, particularly if you've got a lot of savings, which a lot of people do. You don't want to die with a million dollars that the hearse has to carry. It's not going to carry it.
And if it does, you can't take it with you in the coffin. So start giving it away. Well said. Let's leave it there, Bob. Thanks for stopping by, my friend. My privilege.
That's Bob Dahl. Again, we'll put the link to the article, How to Plan Your Giving as a Married Couple in Today's Show Notes. All right, your calls are next, 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. I'm Rob West, and this is Faith and Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
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Thanks in advance. All right, let's head to the phones. By the way, I've got three lines open. You can call right now. 800-525-7000. Let's go to Virginia. Hi, Marilyn. Go right ahead.
Yes, I have a question. Both my parents are in their 80s and my mom didn't really work a lot. She stayed home with us. Then my dad worked a job for a long time. Someone told her that if something happens to him, she cannot draw his Social Security and that she wouldn't be able to draw his pension. So I didn't know if there was something that they could do about the pension so she could draw it since he worked all those years and made that money.
Or if you could give me advice on any of this. Yeah, absolutely. So that's not correct on the first part related to Social Security. So your mother would be able to draw what are called survivor's benefits if your father passes away. Now, right now, while he's collecting his benefits, she could be drawing spousal benefits, which is up to half of his benefit. Is she drawing spousal benefits today? I don't think so.
Okay, so that's easy. And she could get even if she doesn't have enough work record, it's not a matter of her having any work history. She just has the ability to collect half of his as what's called the spousal benefit.
And that doesn't take anything away from his benefit whatsoever. That would just be incremental income. Now, if he passes away, she would then no longer take the spousal benefit, but she would get survivor's benefits, which is equal to his retirement benefits. So whatever he's getting today as Social Security benefits, she would begin receiving that as survivor benefits, and she would have to drop her spousal benefit because you can't get both. So today, they could get both benefit, he gets his full benefit, she gets spousal benefits, if she doesn't have her own work record, equal to up to 50% of his, he passes away, she drops the spousal benefit, but she starts getting the survivor benefit, which is equal to his current retirement benefits.
And then she'd continue to earn that for the rest of her life. Now, with the pension, that really comes down to whether there's what's called a survivor benefit for the pension. And if there is, then your mother would be eligible for that. So I would have them contact the pension administrator, or they could check the statements to find out if there's a survivor benefit. And that way, she would at least know is this going to stop at his death? Or will I as his spouse and survivor continue to receive that?
And it could go either way. It just depends on the pension. Okay, well, that's been very helpful. Also, someone told him the other day that there's a thing now where you have to apply for it, they don't just give it to you. It's extra $150 a month.
Do you know anything about that? What are we talking about the pension or Social Security? Social Security? No, I mean, you know, you, you know, a lot of times Social Security, you know, will automatically kick in, in some cases, you know, you do need to apply for it.
And so I would call Social Security on their toll free number, or you could visit the office. But you know, if you if she's not receiving that spousal benefit, then she needs to apply to get it, because she's, you know, eligible. If he's collecting benefits, as long as she's at least 62 years old, and if she's not getting it, she needs to apply to get it. Okay, so even though he's getting his Social Security, she can apply for what once again? It's called a spousal benefit. Yeah, spousal benefit. And she could go ahead. What does that do to his?
I mean, it does nothing. Now, that's just an additional benefit that's available to her as a spouse of a worker who is receiving benefits. So as long as he's receiving his benefits, and as long as she's 62, and preferably full retirement age 67, then if she waits until her full retirement age, he's collecting his benefits. She can get up to half of his as a spousal benefit, and that doesn't reduce his one penny. So she should do that right away. And there's even an online way to do that.
So there's an online tool if you go to if she goes to SSA.gov slash apply SSA.gov slash apply, then she can apply for that spousal benefit, you know, right there online. Okay, yeah, they're both in their 80s. So, okay, well, great. Well, thank you so much. You've been very helpful. You're welcome. Thank you for calling. May the Lord bless you.
Let's quickly go to Texas. We'll finish with Lucy. Go ahead. Thank you for taking my call. I'm updating my will now that I live in Texas, and I'm wondering if it is God willing for me to just give my children, you know, a percentage of the funds that the Lord has gathered for me, rather than splitting it three ways for them, because I would like to give it to also to a not to three nonprofit organizations that I'm supporting now.
Yes. Well, first of all, I don't think there's a right or wrong decision here, Lucy, you are the steward. And so I would pray about and ask the Lord for wisdom. As a part of that, I would ask the question, what is the worst thing that can happen when I leave the money to the kids? And here's the idea, whatever their life trajectory is, the money is likely going to accelerate that. Now, that may be a good thing. They may be on their own doing great, financially mature, spiritually healthy.
And that's great. If any of them or all of them are not that way, just consider what impact the money may have have, because what's most important is their spiritual direction and pursuit of the Lord. But at the end of the day, if you decide to give a percentage to each of them, and you've got some ministries on your heart that you want to fund through your your estate plan, that's great. There's nothing that says you have to leave all the money to the kids.
In fact, I think each person should really perfectly consider that in terms of what they ultimately decide. Hey, I want to send you a copy of a book that I think will be helpful for you. It's called Splitting Airs. It's going to be our gift to you. Stay on the line. We'll send it out to you, Lucy. You read that.
I think it'll help in some of these decisions. God bless you. That's going to do it for us. So thankful for my team today, Jim, Anthony, Dan, Amy and the rest of the team here at Faithful. May the Lord bless you and we'll see you tomorrow. Bye bye. faith and finance is provided by faith buy and listeners like you
