This Faith and Finance podcast is underwritten in part by The Good Investor, a book by Robin John. This Faith and Work memoir hopes to inspire readers to view their work and investments as opportunities to honor God and bring blessing to the world. You can learn more now at goodinvestor.com. That's goodinvestor.com. Does following Christ guarantee health, wealth, and success?
Or something deeper? Hi, I'm Rob West. Many believers wrestle with that tension, especially when life doesn't go as expected. Today, we'll talk with John Cortinez about the prosperity gospel, how it distorts biblical truth, and how scripture calls us to trust God in both abundance and hardship. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.
This is Faith in Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, it's always a joy to welcome back John Cortinez. He serves as Director of Partnership and Growth at the McClellan Foundation. He's also a frequent contributor here at FaithFi. John, great to have you. Great to be with you, Rob.
Thanks for having me back. John, you began your recent article in our Faithful Steward magazine with a college debate about suffering. One group saw suffering as potentially redemptive, something God could use for good, while the other believed it should be rebuked and removed immediately in Jesus' name. What did that moment reveal to you that we can apply to today's topic?
Well, it was such a highlight. It showed me how differently sincere Christians can read and understand the same Bible and respond to life. One camp viewed trials as something God might use to refine and mature us in Christ. And the other group in that conversation reflected what we might call the prosperity gospel: the belief that hardship should always be rebuked right now, because God's will right now is our immediate health and wealth. And ultimately, that divide traces back to how we handle the whole council of scripture.
And it presses us on a deeper question: Is our theology centered on our comfort today or on Christ and what he's done for us? Yeah, that is the right question. Absolutely. Let's take a moment to define that. When you refer to the prosperity gospel, what exactly do you mean?
Well, I would say it's a way of thinking that links our bank account and our health and our lifestyle today to our spiritual standing. And one thing it suggests to people is that if I make the right faith declarations or if I have enough faith, So if I'm giving enough money to the right ministry, I can unlock God's blessing. And see, this is a distortion that begins with something true. It is very true biblically that God loves us and works in our lives actively. Yes.
But it stretches that truth beyond where scripture goes. And so, in the end, what health and wealth teaching is doing is that it's making those things a measuring stick for whether we're spiritually successful or not. Yeah, I think that's right.
Now, you note that scripture affirms blessings like health and possessions, but doesn't promise them. And that distinction is really key, isn't it? It is absolutely. And we could go all these places in Scripture where, like you said, the Bible clearly celebrates God's good gifts, including provision, including our well-being. But those gifts were never meant to function as proof of His approval of our lives.
So we thank God in a season of abundance. We're grateful to Him for His goodness, but we don't treat that as a promise or guarantee. our security, and our guarantee of salvation in Christ for eternity, that runs deeper than whatever season we're walking through in our temporary lives to day. Yeah, that's well said. You also point out, John, that prosperity teaching is often tied to manipulative, unbiblical fundraising practices.
So describe what that looks like in real terms. Yes, well, New Testament generosity is freely given in response to Christ. And sometimes people are told by pastors or certain ministry leaders that a special blessing can flow through their ministry or church or a specifically anointed leader if you'll give the right amount. Other times, maybe, it's implied that financial hardship that you might be encountering is tied to the fact that you're not giving enough to that ministry. And what this does, this manipulation, it turns generosity into a formula to get results in our life instead of an act of worship and thankfulness to God.
Scripture, of course, would point us in a different direction. 2 Corinthians 9:7, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
So if fear becomes the motivator, The heart of the gospel is lost in our giving. That is well said, and it's something we talk about a lot here on this program. It's really important to understand. Folks, the idea here is that the prosperity gospel measures God's love by our circumstances, but scripture, on the other hand, calls us to anchor our hope in Christ, trusting him in both abundance and hardship. We're unpacking all of this today with our friend John Cortinez as we talk about the prosperity gospel and how it really distorts biblical truth.
John serves as director of partnership and growth at the McClellan Foundation. He is a regular contributor to our magazine here on the program at Faith and Finance and really everything we do here at Faith Phi. We're going to come back right after this break and continue to talk about this topic and go a bit deeper. We're just getting started. Don't go anywhere.
What happens when we never define enough? It becomes a moving target, always pushing us toward more. For a limited time, when you become a Faith Phi partner, you'll receive our first ever Faith Phi field guide, How Much Money is Enough. Your gift of $35 a month or $400 a year helps equip believers to manage God's money God's way. Become a Faith Phi partner by May 31st to receive your field guide.
Visit faith5.com slash give. Faith in Finance is thankful for support from The Good Investor, a book by Robin John. In his book, Robin shares his journey from an immigrant child struggling in school to co-founder and CEO of Eventide Asset Management, a faith-based investment firm. This Faith and Work memoir seeks to inspire readers to view their work and investments as opportunities to honor God and bring blessing to the world. More information is available at goodinvestor.com.
That's goodinvestor.com. Uh Oh. We're talking prosperity gospel today. John Cortinez is here, and we're talking about prosperity gospel in terms of how it distorts biblical truth. And really, that scripture calls us to anchor our hope in Christ, trusting him in both abundance but also periods of hardship.
John has been unpacking that. And, John, in the article that we're referencing in Faithful Stewart, you draw a comparison to ancient pagan systems that promise blessing in exchange for money and allegiance. That's strong language. Why make that connection?
Well, Rob, you know, if you think about human history, spiritual leaders, I don't just mean Christian leaders, I mean think witch doctors, think, you know, all kinds of leaders through thousands of years. They've promised health and prosperity or rain and good crops in return for people's money and loyalty and sacrifices, idol worship. In the prosperity gospel, it carries the same exchange mindset. Blessing is something I can earn if I do the right things or give the right gifts, rather than something I freely receive from God in Christ. And so that shifts our confidence away from Christ's finished work on the cross, which is where our focus should be, and toward our performance instead.
And the really dangerous thing here is that all of this exchange is presented in Christianized language, and that can quietly distort how sincere believers understand the character of God. Yeah, let's take that a step further. What happens, John, when someone embraces that worldview you just described and then faces real loss? It could be financial or physical.
Well, this is where a severe tragedy can take place, and it's the cost of this false teaching. You know, confusion will set in, and guilt is not far behind.
So, what if some preacher tells me if I give enough money to their ministry, I'll be blessed, and I do it, and then I get a diagnosis or I face a financial problem right around the corner. People may start asking, Did I lack the faith, or did I not give a big enough gift, or maybe I've got hidden sin in my life, or maybe I'm under a generational curse? But biblically, The answer may be none of the above. Jesus said, clearly, in this world, you will have trouble. Yes.
Yeah, that's exactly right. And so let's turn that corner and begin to unpack a biblical understanding of this. John Scripture shows us that faithful believers, many of them, walked through both abundance and hardship.
So, how does that challenge a prosperity-centered mindset? That's great. You know, scripture is so balanced and so beautiful. And so we don't get that wealth is bad. We don't get that we're guaranteed wealth either.
And so you can think Abraham and David, they experienced seasons of wealth and influence as they walked with the Lord. Think about the apostles, on the other hand, they sacrificed everything financially. They faced persecution and eventually death for most of them. the early church in Jerusalem endured significant financial hardship and persecution, and of course Jesus himself, he came to give up his riches and suffer deeply and become poor for our sake. Yeah, that's right.
He even told his disciples, a servant is not greater than his master.
So, how does that truth then shape the way we think about both comfort and hardship? You know, Jesus did clearly prepare his followers for trouble, not uninterrupted lives of ease and wealth.
So, if our master suffered, we shouldn't be shocked when we face trials. It's not a surprise, it doesn't mean we've sinned in some special way. As you just pointed out, that reminder from Jesus in James 15, excuse me, John 15:20. Reframes our expectations. Hardship is not evidence that we've stepped outside God's will.
It could be correlated to that, but it's not necessarily that. In many cases, those very trials that we're in become the place where our faith is strengthened. Yeah, that's really good. John, later in your article, you introduce us to a biblical response to trials using the acronym Joy. I really love this.
Introduce our listeners to this framework. Yes. So if we're walking through a struggle in this life, suffering in this life, think of J O Y, the letters of joy. J would be Jesus went first. He knew injustice and loss and sorrow and suffering from the inside.
He lived it himself. O is Orient my heart I bring anxiety about money or health to the Lord, and I remember my hope is anchored beyond this life on earth. And why is yes to his purposes?
So I may boldly ask God for provision and healing, that's a good thing. But no matter what happens in this life, I trust his wisdom in the outcome. Jesus went first. Orient my heart and say yes to his purposes. And that is how we pursue real joy, not by just escaping hardship, but by trusting Christ in it.
James one, two says this plainly. He says, Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds.
So, I'd say to anybody walking through that, let's keep our eyes fixed on eternity and let's not measure God's love by today's circumstances. Yeah, I think that's well said. John, what would you say to someone who's listening today? Maybe they feel disillusioned. They were taught to expect prosperity, but instead they've experienced loss.
How would you counsel them?
Well, first of all, Jesus Christ knows what you are going through because he did come to earth and suffer as a man.
So he's with you in it. and their suffering, your suffering to day, does not mean that God has turned against you. The cross is the center of the Christian faith, where Christ's love was displayed through His suffering and sacrifice, not a life of comfort and ease.
So your trials have not removed you from God's presence or favor, and I would encourage you The very place where his presence feels most real is when we're struggling or suffering and we turn to him and say, Lord, I'll trust you even in the midst of this. Please come meet me in this.
So turn your heart to Jesus Christ even in the hardest times. Yeah. John, we recognize there's some folks that are listening today that are in that season and they've experienced loss or hardship and they really truly want to honor the Lord and be found faithful. And they're trusting God as provider and they're wondering where that next meal is going to come from. You know, in part, God uses the body of Christ to meet those needs.
And so, what would you say to that person who's in a season of abundance in terms of the opportunity to see people on their path and step into those very real needs? That's such a good word, Rob. And many of us who have been blessed. It is a call from God to recognize, first of all, it starts with Christ. You know, this is not guilt-driven.
This is not look how much you have, you better share it. This is look at the example of Jesus. He had everything in heaven. He was comfortable and happy and united with the Father, and yet, He set it all down and And he came to earth and he suffered and he died for us. And so he's the model.
And so whatever I have, if I have some extra money, if I have some extra time, I can be like Jesus who saved me and look around. And like you said, find the person in my church community, find the opportunity to share what I have with someone else. And that's living out the gospel in a tangible way. Yeah. We talk about moving from pressure to privilege.
It's not the pressure of I have to. It's the privilege of I get to. And you have the privilege in your role there at McClellan to see the joy that comes through giving generously. I'd love for you to just finish today by describing what happens when we give and what God does in our lives when we hold things loosely.
Well, it connects us to the freedom and purpose in Christ that He calls us to in the gospel. And I'll just say this: in working all over the world. We see that the Christian church responds to Jesus. Whether we have a little rice to eat today and that's all we've got, we can share a bit of that. Or if we have millions of dollars, we can share out of that abundance.
But the truth of scripture in calling us to give applies all the way across the economic spectrum and is just a beautiful thing wherever we see it. There's no doubt about that. John, we're out of time, but thanks for helping us think through this from a biblical perspective, my friend. We appreciate you. Thank you, Rob.
That's John Cortinez, Director of Partnership and Growth at the McClellan Foundation and a frequent contributor here at Faith Phi. You can read more on this topic in our latest issue of Faithful Steward magazine. And if you want to receive Faithful Stewart every quarter, consider becoming a Faith Phi partner when you get $35 a month or $400 a year. FaithFi.com/slash partner. Your calls are next at 800-525-7000.
Stick around. Have you ever started a budget only to watch it fall apart a few weeks later? You're not alone. The FaithFi app is the leading Christian budgeting app, combining smart budgeting tools, automated budgeting, and personalized insights with daily rhythms of scripture, short devotionals, and guided reflection. Manage God's money God's way.
Start your free 30-day trial today to lock in 25% savings for a limited time at faithfy.com slash app. Are you a financial professional looking to grow your practice while offering advice that aligns with your Christian values? By becoming a certified kingdom advisor, you'll gain the biblical wisdom and professional credibility to serve clients who are seeking faith-based financial guidance. Each year, more than 75,000 people search for a certified kingdom advisor. Join our community and share your expertise with clients looking for someone who shares their faith and values.
Start your journey today by going to kingdomadvisors.com/slash get certified. Yeah. Thanks for joining us today. I'm Faith in Finance. 800-525-7000 is the number to call.
Let's go to Arkansas. Hi, Doug. Go ahead. Hey uh yes, um I'm married and I have uh multiple kids, mixed family, and uh I have a couple of kids that just haven't been responsible in their life. One's about 44 and the other one's like 32.
And I was wondering, I've been thinking about getting like a term life insurance policy on them.
So if there's something should happen to them because of their lifestyle and their choices, I would have something that I could give to their children. And that's my question. Interesting.
Well, I don't know what you were referring to in terms of the lifestyle choices. Depending on what they are, it may make them uninsurable or it may make those policies fairly costly. But regardless, the idea that you would get a life insurance policy on them that you would be the owner of that would be on their life and then paid to their kids is an interesting idea. Are these minor kids that you're wanting to provide for just until they reach the age of majority? Or what are you thinking here?
Well, uh two of them are nineteen and uh two of them are you know younger like One's ten and one of them's fourteen.
Okay, very good. Yeah, I mean, so you can if you have an insurable interest. And you have their permission, so you need the person's consent. Then you would be able to do that. And basically, what you would say is: listen, I want to make sure that if something happens to you and none of us know the day or the hour that the Lord is going to call us home, and so therefore, I'd like to take out a policy on your life payable to your kids as the beneficiary so that they're provided for.
You know, obviously, ideally, this would be something these children would do on their own. But to your point, if that's not the way they're thinking or they're lacking some spiritual or financial maturity and you've identified that they've not taken that important step that we should all do for our loved ones, then you're stepping in and doing that, assuming you have the ability to do that financially. And again, you have their consent and what the insurance company calls an insurable interest, which these children certainly would as dependents, then absolutely, you could do that.
Okay. What would be a good amount? Because like nowadays, $100,000 ain't what it used to be. Yeah, that's right. I don't know what a good amount would be.
Well, it comes down to what type of income are we trying to provide for them.
So normally for somebody who's a working breadwinner in a family, we would say you'd want to take their income and get life insurance equal to ten to twelve times that.
So, if somebody's making $60,000 a year, we'd want to get somewhere between $600,000 and $750,000 worth of insurance. And the idea is that if you have that $700,000 in death benefit at 4% a year, you could pull out $28,000 a year, but you'd probably pull more than that. You'd probably pull more like 8%. And that's not sustainable. But the idea is you just want to get through the working years.
And so you're okay if that money runs out. But I think the starting point is to say not just what is that lump sum I want them to receive, but what is the income that I want them to receive off of the lump sum and for how long? And then it just becomes a math equation to determine the lump sum needed to generate an income stream for a fixed period of time. Does that make sense? Yes.
Okay. I just want to have something where their kids can have something, you know, from their parents. I believe in giving to my grandkids, you know, my kids and grandkids. I want to bless them when I die.
So, you know, even though they haven't lived that way, they should, I'm willing to step in there and kind of help. Yeah, I think that's right.
And I think thinking in terms of what you'd like for this to cover.
So, for instance, if you want to get it enough to cover a college education, you could solve for that amount. If you want to make it an income stream to get them in through their 20s, it could be that as well. Thanks for your call. Let's go to Alabama. Hi, Melinda.
Go ahead. Hi, Mr. Rob. Thank you for taking my call off. Sure.
Yes, I have a question. I I was wondering, is this a good season to scale up on my investments or should I pay them off? Right now I have about yeah, I have two mortgages on the investment properties that I have.
Okay. Yeah. I mean, I always like you being free and clear, but let's talk about that for a second.
So you have two properties. What are the values of them? I have one property. I pay like twenty something thousand and it's valued at like sixty five. I have about forty five thousand equity in that one.
And I have another property I paid about thirty two thousand and it's worth one hundred thousand.
So I have about seventy in equity.
Okay. All right, so you owe 30 on that one. And where would you say you? Oh, it sounds like if you pay these off. Did you say you owe forty five or you have forty five in equity on the first one?
Well, the first one, I paid it off. It was twenty thousand. I have like sixty thousand dollars in equity in that one. And then the second mortgage, I have like thirty two thousand and it's valued at like a hundred thousand.
Okay. So there's like seventy thousand dollar equity in that one.
Okay. So what would it if you wanted to pay everything off free and clear, how much would be the total that you'd have to pay? If I include it, I also have land, so that I have like a mortgage on it as well. It's like 40 acres. I paid like $55,000, $56,000 for it.
And I think it's worth maybe $150,000.
So to pay everything off, I would estimate about $80,000.
Okay, and where would that money come from? Where is that money today? To pay it off. Yes. I would have to sell it.
That's what I'm saying. Is this a good incentive? I see. Yeah. Yeah.
And so I think that comes down to: well, with respect to the properties, you know, that have dwellings on them, do you want to be a renter or excuse me, a landlord? From what you've just described quickly, sounds like you've had pretty good appreciation in these properties.
So these properties have performed well. You know, I'm not crazy about land unless you think, you know, this has real growth potential because it's in an area where they're bringing infrastructure in and it, you know, there could be a wave of development maybe moving into this area. The reason I don't like it as much is there's just, you know, it doesn't generate any income typically unless you, you know, it's farmland or something like that. And there's just risks with regard to infrastructure and whether or not anybody, it's very desirable. But with the properties that are rental properties, obviously there's a whole nother layer of consideration there because you have to decide: do you want to be a landlord?
And would you rather take that money that's done well? You described all those increases and move it over to something that's more passive, like a stock and bond investment portfolio. I could get on board with that and maybe you split the middle. You know, maybe you say, listen, I'm going to keep one, I'm going to keep it free and clear, and I'm going to rent it out, whichever one is more desirable, but I'm going to sell the land and the other one and I'm going to put that in real estate. That would allow you to get more diversification across asset classes because the way we reduce risk is we don't have all of our eggs in one basket.
So that way you'd have a free and clear rental property and you'd have stocks and bonds. And that gives you broader diversification, which is never a bad thing. I hope that helps you. Thanks for your call today. Hey, we couldn't do this without our team each day.
So grateful for my producer, Devin Patrick. For our call screener, Sandy Dickinson, and helping me with the research today, Mr. Jim Henry, plus the entire team here at Faith By. I hope you have a great day. Lord willing, we'll be back to do it all over again tomorrow.
We hope you'll join us then. May God bless you. Bye-bye. Faith in Finance is provided by FaithFi and listeners like you.
