Imagine having biblical financial wisdom delivered to your inbox every week, helping you integrate your faith and financial decisions for the glory of God. At faithfi.com, you can join a community of over 70,000 people who are already receiving our weekly wisdom email, filled with articles, videos, podcasts, and exclusive offers on resources that will deepen your understanding of biblical stewardship. Start your journey today by creating your FaithFi account at faithfi.com. Just click sign up.
Now, let's dive into the podcast. We live in a world that never seems to slow down. Deadlines, family demands, and constant notifications all compete for our attention. Hi, I'm Rob West. But what if God designed rest, not just work, as being essential to our flourishing?
Today we're talking with Pastor Tom Nelson about the Sabbath, why it matters, and how it can transform the way we live and trust God. Then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, it's always a privilege to welcome Tom Nelson back to the program. Tom serves as senior pastor of Christ Community Church, a multi-site congregation in the Kansas City area. He's also the founder and executive chairman of Made to Flourish, a network equipping pastors to close the Sunday to Monday gap, and also the author of Why Your Work Matters: How God Uses Our Everyday Vocations to Transform Us, Our Neighbors, and the World. Tom, great to have you with us. Yeah, it's a delight to be with you.
Tom, would you take just a moment before we dive into today's topic and just give a thumbnail sketch of Made to Flourish? I would love for our listeners to be aware of this incredible organization. Yeah, thank you, Rob. Made to Flourish is really designed as a renewal movement in the church across our nation, and it's really helping pastors and church leaders really equip more intentionally their congregation for their Monday world. We talk about focusing on discipleship for the majority of their life.
And they're Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday World.
So we are really deeply invested in helping more fully as church across the country to disciple people for the majority of their life. And so it is very exciting. It's a growing movement, and it's really a discipleship church renewal movement. And we are thrilled by it.
Well, I'd love for you to check it out. If you're a lay leader or a pastor listening today, go to made2flourish.org and check out their incredible resources. All right, Tom, let's dive in. In our current issue of Faithful Stewart, our magazine, you wrote a really thoughtful article on a really important topic building on the idea that not only does our work matter to God, but also our rest. Talk to us about that.
Yeah, well, what we see about this theme, Rob, is that from the very opening pages of scripture, that God's creation design involved both us working and resting, all image in God. And interesting in Genesis 2, the first verse is God rests, not because he's tired, right? God created time and time as a gift and Sabbath as a gift.
So it's really pressing into God's design in all dimensions. And clearly, we talk a lot about work. I do, paid and unpaid, but rest really matters. And this is woven into the very fabric of God's design. And in fact, it's a thread through all of scripture from the beginning to the very end.
Yes.
Well, Exodus 28 to 10, of course, reminds us: remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it, you shall not do any work. Tom, why do you think God elevates this to the point of putting it right there in the Ten Commandments? Yeah, isn't that amazing?
And you think of all the commandments, that's the most expansive, like in commentary.
So it says it's important. You know, there are many reasons I think understanding that the 10 commandments came after our fall. God knew our propensity to idolize work and to focus on the six days and ignore the seventh. I think. That's just the nature of fallen creation.
The lack of Sabbath just shows the fallenness of creation and our lack of dependence and delight in Him. And I think the idea here is that God wants us to experience. Even in this already not yet moment of redemptive history, an echo of Eden, and then to look forward to a foretaste of rest in the new heavens, new earth.
So it is an echoing of Eden, even though we've lost Eden, but it's also a hopeful look to the future when we will work and rest in the new heavens, new earth in perfect beauty and joy and delight without sin. Isn't that amazing? Oh, it sure is. What a beautiful picture. What is it about rest that calibrates our hearts to the fathers, do you think, Tom?
Well, I think it's really, really important because God's design for creation for all of us image bearers is deeply relational. You know, we serve a triune God. And I think the purpose primarily of Sabbath is to recalibrate. The orderings of our hearts' love and the priority of relationships. I would say.
It's a recalibration and God knows we need that and delights in that. that the primary calling in life as image bearers of God is not accomplishment for God, it is intimacy with Him. I love it. We're going to continue to unpack this after the break. What if Sabbath feels nearly impossible?
How do you build that into your rhythm? And what does it look like practically? We're talking today with Tom Nelson. He's the founder and executive chairman of Made to Flourish, a network equipping pastors to close the Sunday to Monday gap. Check it out at madetoflourish.org.
Back with more just around the corner. Stick around. What does your money say about what you truly treasure? Hi, I'm Rob West, and I want to invite you into a 21-day journey through God's Word in my new devotional entitled, Our Ultimate Treasure. It'll help you align your heart and your money with what really lasts.
With your generous one-time gift of $400 or more or $35 a month before December 31st, we'll send you an early copy as our thank you. Just head to faithfy.com slash give. We are grateful for support from Timothy Plan. Since 1994, Timothy Plan has shared good news with investors and advisors by offering faith-honoring mutual funds and exchange-traded funds. More information is at TimothyPlan.com.
The investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses are contained in the prospectus and summary prospectus available at timothyplan.com. Mutual funds distributed by Timothy Partners Limited and ETFs distributed by Forside Funds Services LLC. Investing involves risks, including possible loss of principal. Delighted to have you with us today on Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West.
With me today, Tom Nelson. He's pastor of Christ Community Church. He's also founder and executive chairman of Made to Flourish. He's a regular contributor at Faith and Finance here and wrote an article in our recent issue of Faithful Steward, our magazine, on the topic of rest, alongside an article on work. And we're talking today about this work-rest rhythm that God designed and why it's so important to us.
Tom, I know you've mentioned in the past that you used to dismiss the Sabbath. What shifted your perspective? Yeah, that's one of my great regrets in life, Rob. That sounds a little like an overstatement, but I think when I think of my own spiritual formation, my relationships with others, my own physical and emotional well-being, I realized I really missed it. But most importantly, I didn't see the importance of it in scripture.
And so to understand that Sabbath is a gift. Uh, it's not an obstacle, it's not a drudgery, it's not legalism that I have to do this, and that to Time is really at the heart of this. You know, I remember often saying, hey, we're stewardships of our time, talent, and treasure, but I often forgot the time part. And Sabbath really is a stewardship, not of just things, but of time itself, this great gift of time. And the shift came to me when I realized that God designed the Sabbath as the climax of the week.
And one of the ways we can understand this is that often for me, for many years, I thought a day off or a Sabbath was rest from work, but actually, it's the other way around. It's we work the rest of the week from this day of rest.
So I thought that I didn't have time to do this. And now I understand I can't afford not to do this. That this is vital for my intimacy with God, intimacy with others, my own.
well-being and a stewardship of time, which is such a a wonderful gift. Yeah. I so appreciate the work you've done teaching on the topic of work. Your book is obviously an essential read on this topic: Your Work Matters. But anything, Tom, as you well know, creation, when worshiped, when we worship the creation over the creator, it becomes an idol.
And that's true of our work. And what you're saying here, I think, is that rest can actually guard against that idolatry of work and productivity, right? Yes, very much so, because the tendency for us as idolaters is to make work our sense of identity and meaning and take something really good and make an ultimate. Rest enter, you know, it stops that dynamic and puts us in a place of healthy rhythms.
So yes, I think one of the great benefits, and Sabbath itself is intrinsically good, but it has instrumental value, amazing value to nurture our relationships with God, to delight in beauty, to deepen our intimacy with others, and to bring spiritual, emotional, and physical well-being. Yeah. Tom, for somebody who's listening today saying, well, wait a minute, you don't know my schedule. I mean, I'm building a new business or I've got a young family. I mean, setting aside a Sabbath feels nearly impossible with what I've got on my plate.
What would you encourage them with today?
Well, first of all, I would say it's not a legalistic thing. I mean, God's not more pleased because you do this or don't do this. I just think even we think about Sabbath echoes the gospel, Rob. You know, the gospel is not based on what we do. But for what God has done for us in Christ.
And I think that is a picture of Sabbath.
So I would just say we build a Sabbath rhythm. From the grace of God and the goodness of the gospel. But I would also say practically, you cannot afford not to do this for the well-being of your relationship with God, your health. All of it, right?
So I think you start small, take steps. The most important thing I think we do in this world is to have a technology fast on that weekly day. That is so important because we have to shut down and slow down the distractions of our mind and heart. But I would start where you are and build it in, and you're going to have to help others understand that you take a day of Sabbath rest. And I'm just hopeful that as you begin to share that also with others, and you can build into it slowly, but you can build into it, that others will really understand the beauty of it as well.
It can be a kind of an evangelistic activity for the goodness of God's design for many people who may not know Jesus. I love that. Let's take that a step further. Paint a picture for what this could look like. Obviously, we're not trying to build a formula here, but give them a sense of what this could actually look like lived out in daily life.
Yeah, for most people, I think Sunday, and there's a reason why we call the Sabbath, Christian Sabbath, Resurrection Day, and it doesn't have to be Sunday.
Sometimes we have to work on Sunday, but I think ideally is to build your Sabbath around Sunday for most people. Because Sunday is a time, first of all, for corporate worship.
So Sabbath is about vertical relationships and horizontal and family and beauty.
So I would just say that for most, I would encourage people very strongly to make their Sabbath day begin with time alone with God, time in church with their community of corporate worship and fellowship, and then build the rest of the day around quiet spaces where we don't work, we enjoy nature, we enjoy one another, we have time to reflect on a relationship with God, and we delight in just being. It's about being in time. But yet it focuses on our timeless eternity.
So I would say you can be creative what you love to do. People take walks, they love nature, beauty is a part of our healing process of Sabbath, but it's meant to be a day of delight and not of productivity. It breaks the productivity cycle that we feel like we have to be productive to be. Either successful, safe, secure, or whatever that motivation would be. That is so good.
We can all do it. It just takes time. It's beautiful, it's transformational. Yeah, no doubt. You know, there's clearly this is about the vertical relationship and deepening and recalibrating our relationship with our Father.
But I love that you said it's about the horizontal relationships as well, deepening those also. How have you seen that play out in Sabbath?
Well, I would just say my own life, it's very easy to give those we love, and maybe it's just me, our leftovers. You know, we work real hard six days a week, we're working really hard, and we are we're spent. And so what hav often happens when we do not build Sabbath in is that people we love, our closest family members, friends, do not get unhurried time of our attention that is leftovers rather than first fruits of our heart, our emotion, our love. And I think when I find as a pastor, when I find people facing burnout rob or marriages that melt down, there's many reasons for this. But one of the connecting threads as a pastor, can I just be really transparent?
I'll ask them, what kind of Sabbath rhythm do you have? Yeah. They do have a Sabbath, it's an afterthought rather than be built into the very basic of their life rhythm. Relationships with our children, relationships with our spouse if we're married, relationship with God, our well-being, and burnout. One of the consistent things I find in burnout, which is so common today, is a lack of Sabbath.
Yeah. Oh, I can only imagine. And I just love what you're describing here. I want to finish today by you unpacking this verse we see in Mark 2:27, where Jesus says, The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. What do you think he meant by that?
Yeah, what I think he meant by that is that the gift of Sabbath and creation That was truly a gift. had been corrupted by first century Judaism to be a legalistic burden. Rather than a delight. And like in his great invitation, Robin, Matthew 11, 28 through 30, Jesus, Rabbi Jesus, goes back to creation and notice the themes of rest. He talks about Sabbath in Jesus.
Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath, not rules, not regulations. It's a person. And he says, Come to me, all who are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you what? Rest. That's right out of Genesis 2, it's Sabbath.
Take my yoke and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble of heart, and you will find rest for your souls, for my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
So Jesus' great invitation to apprenticeship with him is an invitation to Sabbath rest in him. I love it. Friends, when we rest and take Sabbath, we're reminded that life isn't sustained by our work, but by God's provision. Our guest today has been Tom Nelson, author of Why Your Work Matters. Tom, thanks for being here.
been a delight. Folks, if you want to read this article on rest, consider becoming a Faith Phi partner when you visit faithfi.com/slash partner. I'm Rob West, and you're listening to Faith and Finance. A quick break and back with your calls after this. Stick around.
Imagine having biblical financial wisdom delivered to your inbox every week, helping you integrate your faith and financial decisions for the glory of God. At FaithFi.com, you can join a community of over 70,000 people who are already receiving our weekly wisdom email, filled with articles, videos, podcasts, and exclusive offers on resources that will deepen your understanding of biblical stewardship. Start your journey today by creating your FaithFi account at faith5.com. Just click sign up.
Are you looking to maximize your charitable impact this season? The National Christian Foundation has a smart solution. It's called a Giving Fund, and it helps you give more strategically, grow your balance tax-free, and amplify your charitable impact. If you want a donor-advised fund that aligns with your values, open a giving fund today and start making a bigger difference for the causes you love. Learn how at faithfi.com forward slash ncf.
I'm so glad you're joining us today on Faith and Finance. We've got a few lines open today. We're taking your calls and questions. The number 800-525-7000, you can call right now. Let's head to the phones.
Indiana is where Ann is located. Ann, go right ahead. Hey, Rob. I rely on and I'm really grateful for your biblical advice grounded in God's Word, and that's why I'm calling in.
Well, I'm so delighted to hear that. Thank you. That's very kind. How can I help you?
Well, I'm reaching out because we have a new ministry in our community. And we are probably only about But we'd really like to get the ministry started biblically Uh How should we handle that? just as a leadership group. and going forward. Yeah.
So talk to me about kind of what are the startup costs needed and kind of where do you stand today? There is a large portion that's just the startup cost. Um I would say it's probably $6,000 the month that we actually started up. And that's actually quite small compared to some. And then ongoing, we would need probably Half of that three thousand dollars to continue going, but we've probably only got.
contributions to about five hundred dollars a month now.
Okay.
So you you've got enough for 500 a month and you said how much do you think you would need per month? Um after the initial six thousand probably three thousand a month.
Okay.
Yeah, so a shortfall of about 2,500. And if we were to look at, you know, the next. 24 months, two years, you know, that's $60,000. One year is obviously just $30,000. And then we're adding the $6,000 and startup costs on top of it.
And that's just, I would imagine, an estimate. Not that it's not a good estimate. It's just that anytime we're getting into a new endeavor, there's usually unexpected expenses that either on the startup side or on the ongoing side that you may not have thought of, things you're going to need that just kind of come up. And so is it just you and your family that's starting it, or are there other parties involved? Yeah, it is a whole board.
And the board Um You know, we'd like to always be in agreement and, um, Some feel like we should wait. and garner more community and contributions and some think we should take it on faith. Yeah. And what would that look like if you took it on faith? Are you talking about getting a loan of some kind?
Yeah. Yeah, we would have to borrow.
Okay.
And is the board willing to contribute to this, or do they have the ability to? They already are.
Okay.
Yeah, and so they're part of the 500 a month. It's probably At least. Half of that, if not more.
Okay.
All right. Yeah, I mean, I would be in the camp that says, let's wait. And here's why. You know, I think going into debt to start a ministry is generally unwise. I mean, Proverbs 22, 7, the borrower is the slave to the lender.
So debt creates pressure that can distract from the mission and the burden, you know, the future ministry efforts. It also assumes upon God's future provision rather than waiting for his present supply. And I think ministry really should flow from faith and not financial presumption.
So, you know, I think I would use this as an indication of the need and the support of God's people to fund the work. And I would say, you know, when that's evident by way of provision, I mean, you know, the idea that you need $6,3,000 a month and we're at 500, I would say, is at the very least just an indication that perhaps a pause is necessary just to say, okay, why is that? Is it that we haven't communicated the vision clearly? Is there less need for this ministry than we thought? Is there less people who are interested in supporting it than we thought?
Or do we just need to give it more time and perhaps do a better job of communicating the heart behind it? But in any case, I would say that that's at least evidence of perhaps we slow down and we wait and we continue to pray and we continue to tell the story and wait for people to step up. Because the idea that you would take on that in the form of debt, especially with the ongoing carrying costs of this on a monthly basis that would run you 36,000 a year. And at best, you've got 6,000 of that committed, that's a pretty steep obligation. And if the people who are going to be leading it are not in a position to fund that, they don't have the financial ability to do that, that could spiral pretty quickly.
And I would just say, I would have confidence in saying that if this is where God is leading, then where he's leading, he will provide. And let's trust him in faith for that, but let's not get ahead of him by taking on debt, especially just given the warnings in scripture around debt. Does that make sense? It sure does.
Well said. Thank you. Uh, but I don't want to in any way squelch, yeah, what you're believing God for, but let's believe him for it and then let's watch him provide and then move. And so, maybe this is an opportunity to start small and you know, scale resources as they come in. Maybe we're building partnerships, um, you know, and looking for people to invite into this.
You know, maybe you phase it out, uh, or maybe it's just a pray and wait season. And, you know, let's see God provide even miraculously, and then you're ready to move. But I don't think we should get ahead of him in that. And I would say we would be just based on what you're describing here and the dollars that have been committed thus far.
So, and I appreciate your call today. Thanks for your kind remarks about the program. And if I can help further, don't hesitate to reach out. Lord bless you. Quickly to Missouri.
Wayne, I have less than a minute left. Go ahead with your question about credit counseling.
Okay, the crazy. Counselor is offering basically a $29,000 payoff thing, but it's $36,000 worth of credit they're consolidating. And then the payment program is saying five seventy five are Yeah, 575 for 52 months. which only equals twenty nine thousand. Is this a scam of some sort?
Yeah, it's probably not credit counseling. It's probably debt settlement. And this is where you're not paying the full amount back borrowed. They let it get past due, and then they come in and try to negotiate a reduced payoff. I'm not saying it's fraudulent or unscrupulous, although there is more of that in this space.
For sure. And so, what I would do is reach out to our friends at ChristianCreditCounselors.org just because they're trusted. I prefer that program. It's superior to debt settlement. It's going to protect your credit and get you on a scheduled program where you're not relying on somebody to come in and negotiate on your behalf.
So, I'd go to ChristianCreditCounselors.org and have them look over what you've got here, Wayne, before you sign anything or take another step. Thanks for being on the program today. Thank you for being here as well. We'll hope you'll come back and join us tomorrow. We'll do it all over again.
We'll see you then. Bye-bye. Faith in Finance is provided by FaithFy and listeners like you.
