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Money and marriage, two things God designed to bless us, but they can also be two of the greatest sources of stress.
So what if we turn financial conflict into connection? I am Rob West. Dr. Shane Enet joins us today to share six creative ways couples can build stronger relationships by having intentional financial conversations, what he calls money dates. And then it's on to your phone calls at 800-525-7000.
That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith in Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Joining us once again is Dr. Shane Enett, Associate Professor of Finance at Biola University and founder of the Biola Center for Financial Planning. He's also a trusted contributor to FaithPhi.
And Shane, it is great to have you back. Yeah, thank you, Rob. Always a joy to be here and share these ideas.
Well, I'm particularly excited about this. Shane, this is a book that has needed to be written for a long time, this idea of money dates coming together as a couple. And let's start there. Why is it so important to intentionally schedule conversations about money rather than only addressing concerns as they come up, as they arise? You know, with money, it's real personal, and when people get together.
They've done all these studies. One particular study that looked at 2,000 couples. Half of them said they're uncomfortable. Talking about money because they're worried. They're worried that it's going to cause conflict.
And so they end up not talking about it. And that ends up burying the conflict and it becomes deeper. And then, you know, the study also showed that on average, couples have about 58 arguments about money per year. Yeah, and so there's just this fear that creates something worse if you don't talk about it. And so you kind of have to maybe rip the band-aid and just get the conversation going.
But I'm wanting to try and help it get it going where it's not painful, but actually kind of a fun experience. Yeah.
Well, and Howard Dayton has talked about this for years. I mean, that was the first time I was introduced to this idea of a money date. And Howard would always say, at least monthly, you need to come together. And this isn't finger pointing. This is really about course corrections, getting on the same page.
It's about seeking understanding and driving toward our goals that should be informed by our values. But I think you've even taken it to another level because what you're telling us is these can actually be fun. And that's why I was so thrilled that in our latest edition of Faithful Steward, you wrote this great article on six great money dates.
So why is this so important to talk about it this way as a date? You know, we just want to kind of grease the wheels to get the conversation going. And dating can be a lot of fun if you're intentional, if it's something that you want to do. And so, why not kind of combine something really fun with something maybe not as fun? And then, as you're connecting in this kind of fun date environment, then I think the money conversations actually end up being more fun than if you were just at home, kind of in your normal day-to-day.
Yeah.
And the idea here is a regular rhythm, a place where you and your spouse come together to talk about money. But to Shane's point, these can be really enjoyable and you can have a great date at the same time.
So, money date number one is about sharing your money story. Unpack this for us. Yeah, so I think with money, there's a story behind how you're thinking about money, how you're feeling about it. There's a lot of experiences that we have growing up. And it's really important, just you know, as a couple, if you want to grow closer together and you want to understand where someone's coming from, to learn about their experiences.
And so, to have an intentional time where you think about kind of early childhood memories around money, how your family thought about money, what kind of messages you heard about money from your family of origin. All those things can kind of get put together in a money biography or autobiography. And if you think about that ahead of time and then bring it to the date, you can share your story, let it just unfold at the date at a good restaurant while you're eating good food and enjoying kind of the atmosphere. And then you can really get some shared sense of empathy towards your partner. If they start kind of thinking some way or spending in a way that you don't agree with, then you can connect it to kind of their money story.
Oh, I couldn't agree more, Shane. You know, one of the keys to getting on the same page as a couple as it relates to money is understanding. And there is nothing better than unpacking this question together that Dr. Enet presents in date number one. What was your earliest memory of the concept of money?
Knowing that could be a game changer. We're talking with Dr. Shane Enet today. He is Associate Professor of Finance at Biola University. He's also the author of an article in our recent edition of Faithful Steward called Six Great Money Dates.
More dates right after this. I'm Rob West, and you're listening to Faith and Finance biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. We'll be right back. Are you looking for a better way to align your faith with your finances? The FaithFi app is here to help.
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Download the FaithFi app today from your app store. or visit faithfy.com and click app. Faith in Finance is thankful for support from The Good Investor, a book by Robin John. In his book, Robin shares his journey from an immigrant child struggling in school to co-founder and CEO of Eventide Asset Management, a faith-based investment firm. This Faith and Work memoir seeks to inspire readers to view their work and investments as opportunities to honor God and bring blessing to the world.
More information is available at goodinvestor.com. That's goodinvestor.com. We've all heard the stats money is one of the biggest sources of conflict in marriage. It doesn't have to be that way. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance.
I'm Rob West. With me today, my friend, Dr. Shane Enet. He's associate professor of finance at Biolo University. He's a regular contributor here at Faith and Finance, and he's the author of a great article in our latest edition of our magazine, Faithful Steward, called Six Great Money Dates.
Six dates you and your spouse can enjoy to grow closer to each other. and become better stewards of the resources God has entrusted to you. And Shane, before the break, you shared date number one, sharing your money story. Date number two is really intriguing, and you call it give together. Explain it to us.
You know, I uh I had a lot of fun giving adventures as a single guy in my 20s and into my early 30s. And my wife, also, you know, was a great giver. And when we got married, you know, we kind of got into a little bit of a giving rhythm. But what I realized after eight years of marriage is that we had never really done a big giving adventure together. We'd never really sat down and said, Hey, you know, what is our ethos with giving?
What kind of giving would make us both kind of come together in a meaningful way? And so we had a conversation and we did some fun giving together. And we determined kind of what our household, how our household wanted to give and how, in what ways, because it's not just first fruit giving, you can also give in so many other ways as well. Yeah.
And you really give three options here. And of course, there's unlimited options for how you give, but share a couple of these.
So besides first fruit giving, you can do a giving goal, which I just love.
So I'm very competitive and giving goals you can track and you can celebrate. I love celebrating as well. And so we have a giving goal as a family, you know, and we went to a real nice, fun restaurant we would normally not go to as a family and telling our kids, hey, we're doing this big treat because we've gotten halfway on our giving goal and it's just real festive. And, you know, a giving circle is very special. That's where you find like-minded people in a Bible study, in a neighborhood, or even within your family, an extended family, and you all pool your money together and give to a common place that you're all passionate about doing.
And the last one is just let's create kind of a percentage of giving that's kind of a stretch goal. And then as we get have an increase in our income, we increase our giving over time and move towards that goal. Yeah, that is so good. All right, well this next day, date number three, you call cook the books, and have a bit of an idea on where we're going here. Explain kind of the fun part of the date and then also what they're doing financially as well.
Sure. Yeah.
With this one, it'd be fun instead of going to a restaurant to actually stay at home and cook together. And there can often be a lot of good conversation, a lot of good fellowship together as you cook. And if you don't want to cook, then what's also fun is just go to a store, grab food together to go type of food and do a picnic.
So you can kind of go either way. And then when you are making the food and then eating it and hopefully a relatively romantic way at home, you're able to just start to talk about: hey, how should we develop a rhythm for our budgeting? You know, and how should we, who should be responsible for kind of tracking things? Who should be responsible for maybe keeping some receipts if you need to look at how things are being spent? And what type of app should we be using?
And, you know, there's a little bit of maintenance when you do budgeting. And it's nice to come together with a plan about who's going to do what. Yeah, you're exactly right. And that's where the FaithFi app could be really helpful. I know Julie and I use that to track our family's budget.
And if you want to learn more, you could go to faithfy.com. Just click on app there at the top of the page. All right, let's get to money date number four. And this is around your credit report. Explain this to us.
Okay, before I do, let me just say the date I would like to pair with this one.
So, with debt, it's very emotional. There's a lot of emotional cost to it, and people get stressed. And there's actually a lot of financial, what they call PTSD, about around debt. And so, I have a suggestion.
So, the spa is usually pretty expensive and it might get you into more debt. But if you get good at doing what are called day spa passes. Then you can end up getting into all of the facilities and all of the fun ways of enjoying a spa without a treatment, but you're just using their spa and their rooms, and all of everything's beautiful, and you just spend the day there. And then you can talk about your debt and laying a credit boundary, thinking about what are your attitudes around debt? How have you experienced it over time?
Was there some trauma in the past with your family and how they, kind of your family of origin and how they experienced debt? And with your current debt, do you know how much you have? And do you fear it in such a way that you want to get rid of it? If so, how far? How strong?
Just talk about your ambition about getting rid of the debts. But all of that, you can do in just this beautiful place. And I think that would really help create a good constructive conversation around debt. Yeah.
And with all of these dates, Shane, it goes without saying that, you know, this is about coming together and making forward progress, not dwelling on what's gone wrong in the past or pointing fingers, right? Correct. Yeah.
You just want to care for each other and you want to talk openly about things that matter to each of you. And then you want to be able to agree upon kind of an exciting plan, one that you're both owning and coming together to figure out, not just telling the other person this is how it's going to be, but saying, you know, what kind of boundaries should we have about credit cards? Let's come together and agree how we should use them. Should we cut them up or should we use them to try and get travel points? You know, just honestly in what way.
And then it's neat to figure out some other safeguards as well about what type of debt you'd be willing to get and what type of debt you should always avoid and those kinds of things. We're talking six great money dates with Dr. Shane Enet today of Biola University. This is an article that's in the latest edition of Faithful Stewart magazine. Shane, money date number five is called Number Your Days.
Tell us about this one. Sure, that phrase comes from Psalm 9012. Where the psalmist is saying to, he's requesting, he's asking that we may be taught to number our days. And what happens is we gain a heart of wisdom when we do this. And I think every couple, when they come together, should consider that, you know, life's short and it's 100% mortality rate.
And it's really, there's so much that can be done now to prepare us for to essentially to number our days. And, you know, we need to think about what happens if, you know, we pass away, if we get to a place where we no longer have, you know, our cognitive abilities. And so that deals with power of attorney and healthcare directives and our will and potential trusts. And really, when you come together, the date should be about determining and identifying key people in your life who you trust, who you want to be the guardian of your children, who you want to be the executor of your will, who you want to be an agent for your power of attorney. You know, and these people are really important to figure out together.
You don't want To be kind of an emergency thing. And, you know, just spending an hour on estate planning makes a huge difference for the people that you love. And really, it's one of the most selfless connected things to the gospel because you're doing this purely for the sake of others. And I think as a household and as a couple, doing this really makes it so that, you know, you're doing, you're drawing closer as you're numbering your days and you're both together gaining this heart of wisdom.
So good.
Well, Shane, I am so thrilled that you wrote this article for us. I know you're in the process of writing a book that's going to dig deeper into this subject and we'll certainly have you back when it comes out, but really appreciate your time today. This has been great. Yeah, thank you for having me. All right.
Folks, if you want to have healthy money conversations, I recommend a money date. And our latest edition of Faithful Stewart, the article written by Dr. Shane Enett, can get you pointed in the right direction. Faith Phi partners receive four issues a year when you support the ministry at $35 a month or $400 per year. Just go to faithphy.com/slash partner to learn more.
That's faithfy.com/slash partner. Back with your questions after this: 800-525-7000. Stick around. Wondering who Faith and Finance recommends as a banking partner that aligns with Christian values? It's Christian Community Credit Union.
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Learn more at chministries.org/slash FaithFi. Hey, great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance. We're taking your calls and questions: 800-525-7000, Plainfield, Illinois. Danielle, go ahead. Hi, so I've been listening for a while, and I've had the same question in my mind that I'm finally able to call you, so I appreciate it.
Um so I'm a single parent. And um I'm thirty one years old. My son just turned five. I want to save for his future. I'm doing it all by myself, no child support or anything.
I have about $42,000 in savings in a separate account. Um but I want to start like investing, but Do something where it's safe.
So there's not a lot of risk. Um but I want to have something ready for him for his future. Boy, I love that. And Danielle, let me just commend you here. I mean, I have counseled with enough single moms to know how challenging this is.
And as you said, you're doing it on your own. God is your provider, but there's not any child support coming in there. It doesn't sound like. And not only are you debt-free, But you've got this really phenomenal emergency fund, and you're trying to plan ahead for the future for your son, and that's amazing. Um, I think the big question you have to decide is: do you want an ear market for college, or would you really want it available for any purpose, even beyond college?
Do you know the answer to that? Um for any purpose.
Okay, cool. Given that you don't want it earmarked specifically for college, which if you did, I would say use a 529 plan, then you're probably going to want to just put it in a taxable account in your name. But earmarked for your son. And so, what you would do is, you know, you wouldn't put it in his name as a custodial account. You could make him a beneficiary on it, which would automatically convert it to a custodial account if something happened to you.
But the nice part about it not being in a custodial account is you have control over it.
So, even though it's separate from all of your other money, so you know that it's earmarked for your son, if for some reason when he gets to 18, you know, he's not spiritually or financially mature enough to receive the money, it wouldn't automatically become his money, which it would be true if it was a custodial account.
So, you'd have a little bit more control over when he gets the money and how he receives it.
So, I'd put it in that taxable account in your name, and then it's just a matter of setting up those systematic contributions right into the account.
Now, you could use like a robo-advisor, like a betterment or wealthfront or the Schwab Intelligent portfolios. Those are very low cost, maybe 25 base. Points, one quarter of 1%. And then every time you make a contribution, it would automatically reinvest it without any transaction fees and it would be in the broad market indexes.
Now, I can't wait for us to have a faith-based investing robo-advisor. And in fact, there is one in the works that I'm aware of. And hopefully, this time next year, I'll be able to tell you that's what I want you to use. But it doesn't exist today.
So you would just have to own the broad market indexes and then you could set up that automatic contribution. You just let that grow. You would determine how conservative or how risky it is based on the way you answered the questions. And then, you know, you just kind of set it and forget it and just let that grow. And then when he gets older and you're ready to hand it off to him, either for college or an apartment or a car or, you know, whatever it is, then you would liquidate the investments and you could transfer it over to him.
Does that make sense? That does.
So, just like a regular savings account and put them in a beneficiary? Yeah, it would basically be what's called a brokerage account because it would be like it, if you did the Schwab intelligent portfolios. It would be a Charles Schwab.
So, it's not really a banking account like you'd have with a savings on an online or a brick and mortar bank. It's really a brokerage firm which provides a trading platform. And then you would decide at that point how to invest it. If you use the robo approach, you would use the Schwab intelligent portfolios. You'd answer a bunch of questions, and then they would automatically invest it for you in these big broad market indexes.
Okay, got you. I'm taking notes of all of this. I really appreciate the advice. Yeah, no problem.
So, summarize, you're going to keep it in your name, not put it in his because you want control over it, but a separate account. If you use a robo, I would just go into your search engine and type in Schwab Intelligent Portfolios. You'd open an account online in five minutes, you'd answer all the questions, it would determine what allocation is right for you based on your risk tolerance and time horizon and all that. And then you would make an initial contribution and then set up automatic additional contributions. And every time the money hits the account, it would automatically invest it for you based on the algorithm that was suited for you.
And it's very low cost. And then that money would just grow with the market.
Now, it would also lose with the market too, but we're counting on, you know, over the next, you know, your son likely wouldn't need this for the next 13 plus years. And so we're counting on that the overall trend of the market during that period is up.
Okay, awesome. Thank you so much. All right, Danielle. Thanks for your call today. Lord bless you.
Call anytime. Westland, Florida is where we're going next. Francisco, go ahead. Thank you, Rob. Thank you for all your advice always.
And Rob, my daughter, she's twenty seven year old. And he has a tradition as well. And four one K. Uh And she was transferred abroad.
Now then she wants to move the four one K to a fidelity IRA is I guess it is. My question to you, being her age and so young, and she's going to move it. would it be a convenient time to try to do one of those backdoor Roth that you have spoken in the in the past? Yeah, does she not qualify? Because here's the thing: there really shouldn't be an issue.
She doesn't have to do a back door. She just does a straight conversion. The back door only comes in when you're taking money to try to get it into the Roth IRA as a new contribution, and you're not able to because you earn too much money. If the money's already in a 401k, she doesn't have any limitations on converting that to a Roth. She doesn't have to use the back door.
So essentially, what would happen is she would transfer the 401k to a traditional IRA, then do a Roth conversion.
Now, I like that because she's young. She's got lots of time for growth.
So that Roth can be very powerful, but she's got to have the cash flow in order to be able to pay the taxes on the entire 30,000 when she converts it. And you just don't want that to catch her by surprise. But if she's got the money to pay the taxes, Tax bill, I think that could be a phenomenal opportunity for her as a young lady with lots of time between now and retirement to go ahead and get all of that into a tax-free environment. Perfect, perfect. Yeah, thank you.
You know what? The reason I was asking also is because. She was transferred early in the year, so Her tax bracket for this year is not as usual with the with the salary.
So I I thought that that could be also good. to do it on this year for tax purposes.
So I I I don't know. I think that's great. And she could probably make a new contribution for this year as well because of her tax. Her income is down. She's probably under the threshold where you're no longer able to contribute to a Ross.
So not only could she roll the $7,000 or the $30,000 over and then convert it. And then pay the tax, but hopefully, she could also make a 2025 contribution of $7,000. Francisco, I think you're on the right track here. Thanks for your call, sir. We appreciate you.
That's going to do it for us.
So thankful to have you along with us today on Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West. A big thanks to my team today: Pat, Sandy, Devin, Jim, couldn't do it without them, and everybody here at Faith Fi that makes this happen. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye.
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