Kingdom Advisors equips Christian financial advisors to bring their faith into their practice with the industry-recognized Certified Kingdom Advisor designation. We bring those advisors together with other industry leaders to form a vibrant network. And through that network, we give them the resources, tools, and encouragement they need to serve clients like you, helping you align your values with your financial decisions and investments. To learn more, visit kingdomadvisors.com. The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice.
Proverbs 12, 15. I am Rob West. Wise financial decisions don't happen in a vacuum. They often require wise counsel. But how do you know if the person giving you advice shares your convictions and values?
Brian Cochran joins us today to explore how biblical wisdom should shape not just our decisions, but the voices we trust. Then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith in Finance: biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, it's a pleasure to welcome my friend Brian Cochrane to the program. He's a certified financial planner and a certified kingdom advisor. Serves as the chief stewardship officer at John Moore Associates. Brian, great to have you here. Yeah, so excited to be with you, Rob.
Brian, I know the team at John Moore recently celebrated an incredible milestone. That is over $50 million given to those in need through your clients' charitable giving, which is just incredible. And that's not just impressive, it's a powerful reflection of the mission there at John Moore Associates. Many financial advisors focus on helping clients grow their wealth, which, of course, isn't a bad thing. Money is a good gift from the Lord.
But as a Certified Kingdom Advisor, you're also focused on helping your clients give more of it away.
So I'd love to start there. Can you expand more on what sets you apart as a CKA? Yeah, it has a lot to do with our why, our purpose for being as a business, as individual planners in our team. We have 15 folks that work with us, Rob, that are all aligned in our mission, which is to walk alongside the families we serve, helping them become wise and generous stewards.
So rather than just try to be a profitable business or to make a living as individuals, we feel we're called to influence the families we serve in ways that guide them to better money decisions based on what the Bible says is wise when it comes to wealth and finance, but also to help them become generous. And that $50 million number you mentioned is a reflection of that. Yeah, there's no doubt about it. I love that you mentioned this as a calling. You know, you're a financial pastor of sorts, and because we know money issues are heart issues, which gives you an amazing opportunity.
And I love that you're so clear for you and your team on what that looks like as you engage with clients.
Now, you've said before, Brian, that financial planning. Planning is more art than science. That may catch some folks off guard.
So I'd love for you to unpack that a bit. Yeah, I think people believe because we're dealing with money and numbers that it's all technical, that we're all just a bunch of nerds sitting with pocket protectors and you know, and You know, crunching numbers and doing calculations and following the markets and trading, but there's so much of what we do as financial. Pastors, if you will, or financial planners that go beyond the math side of a financial plan. You know, that's the taxes, the investment returns, the laws and regulations, those all matter. But the actual advice you receive from a financial planner and a certified kingdom advisor is largely driven by the values, the priorities, and the personal convictions of that planner.
So that's where the art part comes in: you're going to see a different result based on those values of the person across the table. And so, in a sense, you could sit down with 10 different financial advisors, and one family could go to 10 different offices and see 10 different results in terms of the financial planning recommendations based on the preferences and values of that financial planning team. Yeah, that's well said. I mean, at the heart of it, Brian, as believers, there's really a deeper purpose at work here, isn't there? Exactly.
And I think what's important for us to remember is that we are stewards. We're managing God's money.
So if we're enlisting someone like a financial planner or a tax advisor to help us be wise in our financial decisions, it's not just about what we want, but we're trying to meet God's expectations for what He's given us to manage. And so we're in a stewardship role. And we often say, as financial planners, we're the stewards of the stewards. We're trying to help people make good decisions with their piece of God's portfolio. And you have to ask yourself, does this person, does this advisor, understand what I believe about money and why it matters to me?
And, you know, is my financial planner really going to help me reflect God's will and God's purpose for these resources? Or is this just about making more money? Wow. Yeah, if you're a steward of Stewards, you know you're going to give an account someday to not only what God has entrusted to you financially, but also with your clients. And I know that's something that weighs heavy on your heart.
And I love how you all live that out there at the firm.
Well, we're going to take a quick break. We come back more with Brian Cochran today. What does it look like in terms of the questions you might ask as you interview an advisor or engage with an advisor who shares your values? And how does this play out in day-to-day life? Much more just around the corner.
We'll be right back. Don't go anywhere. What matters most to you when selecting a financial advisor?
Someone who shares your biblical values? How about someone who will take the time to explain your financial options clearly? Certified kingdom advisors meet high standards of competence, integrity, and biblical training, equipping them to offer financial advice grounded in God's Word. No more wondering if your advisor truly understands what's important to you. Find a certified kingdom advisor near you at faithfi.com.
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Financial Wisdom for Living Well, SoundMindInvesting.org. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West. With me today, my friend Brian Cochran. He's a certified financial planner and a certified kingdom advisor, and he serves as the chief stewardship officer at John Moore and Associates.
And boy, it's a delight to have Brian here as we talk about the role of a certified kingdom advisor who's really on mission, who's approaching the advice relationship through the lens of stewardship. And one evidence of that is the firm just celebrated over $50 million given to causes on the heart of God through their clients' charitable giving. And that is something that we just celebrate here today. And I think it's a great picture of really the work of a certified kingdom advisor because at its core, Brian, an advisor may look at that and say, wait a minute, that's $50 million you could have been managing and therefore charging fees on, right? Yeah.
Yeah, it's God's economy, though, because our business has tripled in the time that we help clients give those dollars away.
So we didn't help clients be generous because we thought it would grow our business, but I think God's continued to bless our firm and the families we serve as we've walked many, many families through this journey of generosity. Yeah, that is so true.
Well, Brian, before the break, we were talking about the deeper purpose at work when you engage with clients well beyond the numbers into hard issues and really the intersection of values and our faith and the decisions that you're guiding clients to make. Give us a picture of how that disconnect might show up in real life. Yeah, unfortunately, we've seen this happen and we've heard many stories from friends in the industry. One example from the generosity side, we were just talking about charitable giving and how we encourage the families we serve to be generous. But we've heard examples, and I've seen a few examples myself, where we build a generosity strategy and help a client give maybe more than they've ever given.
And we actually might face pushback from a tax advisor or an attorney who doesn't really understand the heart of the client and can't make sense of why someone would be so generous.
So they're actually saying, well, are you sure you want to give all that money away to these nonprofits, to these ministries? And they just don't follow the thought process and the heart of the client. And sometimes they actually can get in the way of the process and slow it down.
So if they're not.
Sort of with you, there could be a chance that they're working against you in your generosity journey. Another example we see a lot as part of our role is to help people manage their investments, is we see people show up who've worked with advisors for years that could be very competent advisors. But we also unpack the client's portfolio and find out many of the investments that they've chosen or the advisor has chosen for them, if you will, might not reflect the client's values.
So maybe they're investing in companies that profit from alcohol sales or abortion or pornography, and the clients are a little disappointed or even appalled to find out that they've been participating with these companies.
So the things you own and you invest in can differ based on the planner you're working with, and you want to make sure that's aligned. And so, really, it's just all these things can steer you in directions that don't align with your faith and your values, often without you knowing. You know, we would rely on these professionals to give us good advice and guide us in ways that are wise and prudent. But if they're not aligned with your values, they might be taking you a direction you did not intend. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
I think one of the biggest barriers to God's people doing something significant for God financially is often the financial advisor. You know, the Lord lays something really big on their hearts. They walk into the advisor's office and he or she says, You don't want to do that. And they don't. And I think that really underscores the difference here around an advisor who understands the heart of God and the counsel of scripture and can really journey with you through these really critical stewardship decisions.
So let's talk about how then that conversation changes, Brian, when your advisor does share your values. What does that look like? Yeah, if the values alignment's strong, Rob, it should feel different. You should feel a connection there and a stronger relationship, but also it should impact the actual advice you receive. For example, on this topic of generosity, rather than an advisor questioning your giving or maybe not even discussing generosity at all, maybe your financial advisor and your tax advisor become cheerleaders for you that celebrate your giving with you or.
In some cases, challenge you in your giving and saying, you know, you seem to have capacity to give more. Why aren't you being more generous at this time? Or what opportunities are there to be more generous? That's one thing we work with a lot with the families we serve is we're always on the hunt for those families that maybe are already giving but don't understand how great their capacity is to be generous and that they can afford to do so.
So we're actually pushing clients and challenging them in their giving in a way that's productive. And a big thing we see that changes a lot in our conversations is changing from an accumulation attitude of just the goal is always more money to a real sense of purpose that starts with contentment and understanding how much is enough, which is a very uncommon conversation in our culture, but also in the offices of financial planners.
So if we can talk more about contentment rather than always buying faster cars and bigger houses, it tends to lead to a whole different set of decision-making and more satisfaction. More joy. We know that from scripture. That's what we should expect. And then, when it comes to the investing side, rather than just investing as everyone else does, maybe looking at companies and strategies that reflect God's principles and investing in companies or funds that really reflect the client's values and then helping them understand the benefits of that so they become, in many cases, more excited about their investing and more engaged with a strong sense of ownership of what they're buying with their investments so that they feel empowered there and they know with confidence that they're not supporting things that are counter to their values.
Yeah, that's really helpful. Brian, if someone's looking for an advisor and really wants to begin to have this conversation to ensure they share the same Christian values, what would be some questions that they should ask? Yeah, that's a great question, Rob.
So. trying to keep it very open-ended. And I like to start with values. All of us make decisions based on our values, whether we've ever actually documented our values and thought about it.
So, the first question could be: What are your firm's core values? Or you as an individual, what are your core values as a financial advisor? And then let them share. You know, for us, it's simple. We know our values, we talk about them every week with our team.
So, everybody on our crew is prepared to answer that question with conviction. And then ask: How do those values show up in the way you serve clients?
So, one of our values is generosity. And we talked to Rob about we track how much our clients give. That's one way it shows up. And then we talk about generosity with every family we serve. And then how do they define success for a client?
What does a successful client relationship look like for their firm? That's a really good one because if success for them is just that they're beating the market or they're seeing more clients or they're seeing client assets grow, those are good metrics. But is there something that defines success for them that's aligned with your definition of success? Yeah. It's always also good, Rob, to ask about compensation.
You know, how are they paid? Are they paid based on the assets they manage, based on products they sell, based on that time they spend with you? And then, in line with that, are there any conflicts of interest in how they're compensated or in the investments they choose for you? And then I think as a believer, you should be bold and very direct, and just say, How will your advice support and strengthen my faith? That's really helpful.
But what about somebody, Brian, who's already working with an advisor and is starting to feel some tension? Maybe their values don't line up any longer, or maybe they never did. What do they do? Yeah, changing advisors is hard, so that's a tough decision, Rob. But I think you can ask a lot of those same questions, and if you don't get the answers, you Feel are appropriate, it may be time to go to that search page and find a kingdom advisor who can better align with your values.
Yeah, I think a key idea here is this is God's money, and your advisor works for you. And so having this values alignment could be a game changer. Brian, thanks for your time today, my friend. Yeah, my pleasure. That's certified financial planner and certified kingdom advisor, Brian Cochran, with John Moore Associates.
If you want to find an advisor who shares your values, go to faithfy.com and click find a professional. We'll be right back. We're grateful for support from Guidestone, whose diversified suite of investment solutions align with Christian values to create positive change in the world. More information is available at guidestonefunds.com/slash faith. Investing involves risk, including potential loss of principal.
Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses of Guidestone Funds before investing. They're distributed by Four Side Funds Distributors LLC, which is not an advisory affiliate, a registered investment advisor, nor do they provide investment advice. As the leading advocate for the Christian financial industry, Kingdom Advisors serves the public by promoting the integration of a biblical worldview across every aspect of the financial services industry. And we serve a growing network of thousands of Christian financial professionals, equipping and empowering them to carry biblical financial wisdom to their clients, peers, and community. For more information, visit kingdomadvisors.com.
That's kingdomadvisors.com. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance, helping you see God as your ultimate treasure and money a tool to accomplish God's purposes. To Naples, hi, Becky. Go ahead. Hi, Rob.
Glad to be able to get through for this question because I have someone coming out tomorrow to talk to me about an annuity. And I've also spoken to someone earlier in the week. And I know that you said a lot of times there's a lot of cons, not so many pros. Can you kind of give me a real quick flyover of the pros and cons of the annuity? Yeah, I'd be happy to.
I mean, the reason people use annuities, and you're right, they're not my first choice, is because they're wanting to offset the downside risk of investing. And so they're generally looking for the guarantees that come from the insurance company that they're not going to lose money, but they like the upside potential, either in the form of a fixed rate of return or getting a portion of the upside of the investments with a variable annuity. Often they're tied to an investment plan. But there are plenty of downsides, and I think that's what you're getting to here: which is, number one, there's the lack of liquidity. And so your money is often locked up.
And if you try to access the funds early, it comes with surrender charges, usually for five to 10 years. They're complex.
So they have a lot of fine print, they're complicated, there's risks. And caps and fees that are hard to understand. And that's why I think they're challenging. Three would be their high fees, especially with variable annuities.
Some of them charge 2% to 4% annually plus the rider costs. And so those fees can eat into your returns. I think generally they have lower returns because either it's a fixed rate of return that would be below what you might get annualized in the market, or even with the indexed annuities where it's tied to a market index, you only get what's called the participation rate.
So you get a portion of the upside of the market. And this is perhaps for me the biggest risk or downside because here's what you have to recognize is that market returns are, let's call them lumpy. And here's what I mean by that. Usually it's a big up year followed by a sideways year, followed by another big up year. Up year and then maybe a little bit of a down year.
But you know, with the annuities, you max out on what you're getting. And so the way over a 50 or 75 year time horizon, we get 9% annualized returns is largely driven by those. Big up years. And if you don't get that because you cap out at a certain amount and the insurance company keeps the rest in exchange for the downside protection, when you kind of average that out over a longer period of time, you just don't get the annualized returns that you would get in the market, even though you have to take the downside risk with it. And so I think for that reason, you know, I don't love them.
So, anyway, hopefully, that gives you a little bit of insight into why, you know, they're not my favorite. But feel free to fire away with any questions that you have. I do have a couple of questions. earlier this week had said that they do not do fix, that they do variable and they attach it to the S and P and these so that if and it looks at your anniversary date is when you accrue it. And it looks at the whole year, how the S ⁇ P did.
And he said, and if they do bust, you still get a guaranteed rate, but if it does better, then you get a percentage. As far as the fees, because I know you've always said that these people make money off of the fees. He said there's no fee that he makes his money from the insurance company.
Now he did say, he said you're allowed to take up to 10% per year at no penalty, but he said if you take more than that, then you will be penalized. And the longer you've held it, the less penalty you get.
So the reason I'm looking at this is for diversification and to have some stability. in our investment portfolio. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
I mean, so a couple of thoughts on that. Number one, how are agents paid on annuities? Yeah, the insurance company pays the agent a commission when you buy the annuity, but the commission is built into the product's pricing and fees.
So while you don't write your agent a check, the cost is ultimately passed on to you. You know, you likely pay a fee each year that they call the M ⁇ E fee, which is mortality and expense. And then there's fund management fees, and then there's optional rider fees. And so all that together, you know, reduces your returns, even though the agent's commission isn't directly visible to you. In terms of, you know, what he's saying about the SP 500, yeah, that's absolutely true.
You do get the downside protection where you can't lose money. The insurance company is going to guarantee it. But again, I would go back to this idea that you're only getting a portion of the upside. And often where those better annualized returns. returns come from when you invest directly in the stock market.
Even though you're taking the downside risk, it comes from those dramatic up years. Like take last year where we were up more than 20%. If you capped out at 8%, you could say, well, that 8%, great, I'll take it. Yeah, but it's the 20% last year on top of the 20% the year before. When you put all that together, that's how you do well in the market.
And I think, you know, you're giving up a lot for that downside protection with the annuities.
Now, how do you manage the risk?
Well, you do that through diversification. You might add some bonds to it and some gold. And then, yes, you'd have the stock portion, but rather than putting it in a complicated insurance product, you manage it by diversifying the investments and having an investment advisor. But my experience is you just do better over time when you invest directly in the investments. You manage the risk through diversification and asset allocation.
And the other benefit is you get full access to your money if you need it.
Now, the 10% a year without paying. Penalties is nice, but what if you need more than that? You know, I think that that is a downside for me, if all that makes sense. It does. I'm just thinking at my age at seventy.
I want to I'm not out there to play the market anymore and I'm tired of it and I've got about 5% in silver and some money in the actual in the market itself and some bonds and stuff like that.
So I was looking at it as diversification with stability that I know that I've got a guaranteed income coming in every month. Yeah. And I think that's where it can really shine. If you want to, you know, you've got bonds, you've got some precious metals. I mean, what I would say is typically, you know, at 70, I would say you'd want probably only 40% in, you know, a stock portfolio and probably 60% in bonds and, you know, plus some precious metals.
And that's how you reduce risk. And you keep that 30 to 40% in stocks because we still need this money to last, you know, Lord willing into your 90s or beyond. And so, you know, we know that's the growth component. Yes, at any given, you know, month or quarter or year, it could be down, but over the long haul, it's going to do well.
So listen, I think what you're talking about with the annuity could be a great piece of the overall plan. I don't have a problem with it. I would just make sure you get a second opinion. Thanks for your call.
Well, that's going to do it for us today. I hope you found something helpful and encouraging today. But above all else, I hope you were encouraged to go. Back to God's word. You know, in our role in managing God's money, we always need to be reminded that God owns it all.
We're stewards, and money is a tool to accomplish God's purposes.
So, as stewards, we have to understand the heart of the master. We find that in scripture. A big thanks to my team today: Taylor, Devin, and Pat. And we'll see you next time right here on Faith and Finance. Faith in Finance is provided by FaithFy and listeners like you.
