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Mm-hmm. The world constantly tells us you need just a little bit more. But what if real peace isn't found in having more, but in learning to need less? I'm Rob West. What comes to mind when you hear the word wealth?
For some, it means freedom. For others, it brings anxiety and pressure. Today, Jeff Mannion joins us to explore how we can cultivate contentment in a culture that always craves more. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000.
This is Faith in Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, Jeff Mannion is a good friend. He's the teaching pastor of Ada Bible Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and the author of several books, including Satisfied: Discovering Contentment in a World of Consumption. And that's our focus today. And Jeff, we are so glad that you're with us. Rob, it's such a joy to be with you today.
Thanks for making the time. Jeff, early in your book, Satisfied, you write this. Wealth confuses me. I want to start there. Why do you think that's an important place to start this conversation in your writing?
Oh my goodness, Rob is just such a moving target. I mean, Chris and I started out in ministry when we were 21, tiny little church of 25 people. And by the way, if you're looking for a fast track to financial freedom, do not take a church of 25 people that refuses to get off the ground. I mean, Ada Bible Church is sizable today, but it took seven years to get up to 100 people consistently. And so we lived simply out of necessity.
I mean, it was just always barely enough. But it fast-forward the tape decades. And The church is now sizable. We did so many of the right things, set up an emergency fund, studiously avoided debt. And yet, still, I wrestle with this issue of contentment and sufficiency.
And you would think, you know, now that we're out of those days of shortage, dude, you must have nailed it. And I'm going, it is an ongoing struggle. Learning contentment in financial status of sufficiency is radically different than learning contentment in a season of shortage. Yeah, but the common denominator for both is learning. And we can learn in different environments.
And one of those environments you learned in, you called the desert classroom. Share that with our listeners. Yeah. And the desert classroom refers to the Israelites. They were enslaved for generations in Egypt, right?
And then, under the leadership of Moses, they go out into the desert and they have this 40-year detour in the desert. And that's where God. Provided for them every day with this food substance called manna and basically kept them alive in the desert. But, Rob, then there's this fascinating, uh, for me, chilling and jarring conversation that takes place just when they're ready to leave the desert. And it's like Deuteronomy chapter eight.
It's like, when you get into the land of promise, the promised land, which was often called the land flowing with milk and honey, right? And they're going to trade in the desert for rushing streams and growing grain and flourishing grapevines and pomegranates and figs. And there's this warning: don't forget the Lord your God who brought you out of Egypt. And you think, well, it would be automatic that their hearts would be drawn to worship once they get into this season of sufficiency. My friend, it's not.
And it's like, you're going to get into the land of promise. You're going to get into a nice house. Your flocks and herds are going to increase. And you're going to say, you know, I think I did this. My strength did this for me.
And it's like, do not forget the Lord your God. He is the one who even gives you the ability to grow wealth. And so, again, that's part of the wealth confuses me thing. And just the shifting target is that when a financial status stabilizes, you've done the right things, debts paid off, the student loans are gone. Maybe paying off your mortgage, given consistently to retirement fund, is kind of like, okay, right there, right there.
That is a dangerous moment. And you need to just double down on the journey of trust. And just remember, you know, I know where my stuff comes from. Yes. Wow, that is so powerful.
Yeah, I'm thinking about those Israelites about to face their most significant challenge: prosperity. What is it about prosperity that makes it so difficult for us to understand the source of it and to navigate it?
Well, we're talking today with Jeff Mannion about contentment. It's a learned behavior, and we're going to try to help you with some of that learning today. Jeff is teaching pastor of Ada Bible Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan. The book is called Satisfied: Discovering Contentment in a World of Consumption. We'll continue to unpack it just around the corner.
And then, your questions at 800-525-7000. Don't go anywhere. We're just getting started. We chase money thinking it'll bring security. We seek success hoping it'll satisfy.
But the book of Ecclesiastes exposes this truth. Lasting contentment isn't found in what we own, but in a personal relationship with Wisdom Himself, Jesus. Faith Phi's study, Wisdom Over Wealth, 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money, will help you break free from empty pursuits and discover what truly lasts. Purchase your copy today or place a bulk order at faithphy.com/slash shop. We are grateful for support from Praxis Investment Management.
Since 1994, Praxis has offered investment products designed to meet practical needs for everyday investors seeking to steward their assets consistent with their desire to promote positive social and environmental impact. Praxis aims to bring a faith-based approach to ETFs, mutual funds, multifund portfolio solutions, and money market accounts reflecting their 500-year-old Anabaptist Christian faith tradition. More information is available at PraxisInvest.com. We're talking the secret to a satisfied life. This is Faith and Finance.
I'm Rob West. With me today, my guest, Jeff Mannion. He's teaching pastor of Ada Bible Church in Grand Rapids, Michigan. And I'm so thrilled to dive deep into his book today: Satisfied: Discovering Contentment in a World of Consumption. And, Jeff, before the break, you were talking about what that looks like and the journey of learning that and drawing from scripture and the Israelites.
And you know, in the book, you also share about your personal journey of decluttering. And I'm sure that's a topic that resonates with a lot of our listening audience. Why was that season so impactful for you? And what did you learn?
Well, I I think what happens is uh stuff Rob, stuff grows. Yes. It's like it multiplies and reproduces. And it's not only our lives are filled with all this stuff. And we go, I don't even remember where some of the stuff came from.
And so I went through this seven-week exercise where I gave away five items a day for seven weeks. It was like 210 items. When I say gave away, I don't mean generosity. This was like getting rid of three dozen CDs. I didn't listen to CDs anymore.
And there they were hibernating, you know, in a box in my basement. A 40-piece dish set that we donated to a housing center that we hadn't used in like two or three years and a drawer of t-shirts. It's like they followed me home from 5K races and conferences and events. You know, it's enough to outfit a small village. And so 210 items later, the experience I had was just number one, coming in contact with the stuff that inadvertently surrounded myself.
With, but just I felt 210 items lighter. I felt richer for having less. Right. We can all resonate with that, and there's all plenty for us to declutter.
So that's a great reminder. All right, Jeff, let's begin to dive into this idea of contentment a little deeper. I know in the book you reference Paul's words to Timothy: godliness with contentment is great gain. What does that look like in our lives today? Yeah.
I think the words that we are seduced by are the words there and then. That is, I will only be at peace there and then. I will only be fully alive there and then. When we're able to break away from this monotonous routine and go on vacation there and then, when we're able to get out of this apartment and get into a house, when we're able to renovate this outdated kitchen and get into a different kitchen there and then, that's where life is. That's where we can be fully alive.
And I think contentment, Rob, is learning to be fully alive to God. fully alive to the people around us, here and now. Not there and then. I think a critical word is before. The more fully alive I am to God and people while I am in the apartment, the more it is likelihood I'll be fully alive when we get in the house.
The more fully alive I am here now with imperfect people in an imperfect place, the more likely I will be fully alive when we go on vacation for a week. The more fully alive I am without the renovation, the more fully alive will I be after the renovation. This renovation will not fix me. And there is not a mountain of Amazon boxes large enough waiting for me on my front porch to fill the empty space that is in me. And so I call it the school of contentment because in another place, Paul would say, I have learned to be content.
I think that's pivotal. It's not just that some people have the contentment DNA and others don't. I've learned to be content, whatever the circumstances. And by the way, those words were written by an inmate. He was not where he wanted to be.
It's during a house arrest, imprisonment. And he goes, I had to learn to be content, whatever the circumstances. And so I think when we're in, so contentment is not gained by getting what we want. Want. Contentment.
We arrive at contentment through having this joy and peace and being alive, even when we don't get what we want. And I think it positions us to have extreme joy if the day comes and when the day comes when we do get what we want. I think it's a powerful, powerful force. It sure is, boy. We could finish right there and we've learned everything we need here and now, not there and then, but we're going to keep going.
Jeff, let's talk about the comparison trap. You talk about comparison as a major barrier to contentment. Why is comparison in particular so spiritually damaging? And why do you think we struggle with it so much? Yeah, you know, Teddy Roosevelt, I don't know if he actually said it, but he's credited as saying comparison is a thief of joy.
And so I don't know whether Teddy Roosevelt said it, but I believe it's true because, Rob, there's always someone with a bigger boat. Yes. A better landscaped yard. A longer five-star vacation. And what comparison does is it causes my heart to focus on what is being withheld rather than focusing on the blessings that are bombarding my life day after day after day.
And by the way, if this was a problem 30 years ago, yeah, multiply that by 10 now because of social media. Yes. Because I'm no longer comparing my life to somebody else's life. I'm comparing my life to somebody else's image crafting. Yes.
And so, not my reality to their reality. but my reality to my impression of their reality. And it can shrivel the heart and it can kill generosity. Because generosity comes from the sense of abundance. Yes.
That I am given much. Abundance meaning more than enough. I have more than enough. That's the fountain from which generosity flows. And so when I am looking around at my life and I go, not enough, not enough, not enough, it will cripple generosity and it will cripple joy.
Oh, so good. Let's go there next because you're right. Giving, we say, often breaks money's grip over our lives and over our hearts. Why is that so powerful?
Well, it's interesting. That famous passage, I just, it's my key passage on. How to deal with my wealth in an appropriate way. 1 Timothy, where Paul writes to the younger pastor, command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant or to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. And then Rob, right after that, command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, to be generous and willing to give.
And I think that be generous and willing to give, what Paul is pointing at there is that when we open our hands, It is a reflection of the generosity of God, the God who was generous first. Creation and in Christ. And as we begin to reflect His generosity, wealth can begin to lose its stranglehold as the source of joy and identity in my life. Mm. Wow.
Well, Jeff, no doubt we want this for ourselves. We also want this for our kids. We have just a minute left. How do we begin to pass this down, this deeper legacy of living a truly satisfied life? You know, I thought this was important as a dad, and now I, you know, a couple gentlemen, you know, we have, you know, five grandchildren now.
Yeah. And I think it's what's caught. Values are caught. And I just hope that my children and grandchildren observe that Chris and I, that our greatest joy is not new and better stuff. That's just a story too small.
And I hope they can see the source of the lives of generosity that we pursue, and that is that it just imitates the generosity of God for us. When we are generous, it's like it's reflecting the DNA of Christ that's been implanted within us. Oh, Jeff, man, incredible stuff.
Well, listen, folks, I'm sure you've picked up on it and we've only scratched the surface. You need to read Satisfied, discovering contentment in a world of consumption. It will be a game changer. My friend, thanks for being along with us today.
So grateful, Rob, for these moments. That's Pastor Jeff Mannion. Again, the book is called Satisfied: Discovering Contentment and a World of Consumption, available wherever you buy books. Back with your calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith in Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
If you love what you hear on this program, there's even more waiting for you at FaithFi.com. Explore podcasts, videos, articles, Bible studies, and devotionals, all designed to help you see God as your ultimate treasure and money as a tool to advance his kingdom. Pursue wisdom, practice generosity, and steward God's resources in a community with others who share your faith. Visit FaithFi.com to take the next step in your faith and financial journey today. That's faithfi.com.
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Visit ChristianCreditCounselors.org or call 800-557-1985. Hey, thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions. The number to call today, 800-525-7000.
We've got plenty of room for you, so now would be a great time to call. Again, that number with any financial question, 800-525-7000. You can call right now to South Carolina. Hi, Jeff. How can I help?
Yes, sir.
Now that we've passed the big beautiful bill, is this a good time for the next four years to take some of that before tax money and finally pay the tax on it?
So, tell me a little bit about what you're thinking. What do you have in the way of assets, and how are you going to use the money?
Okay. I've got about uh assets are about one point five million. I got about five hundred thousand that would be available that is in well, I got two annuities that we set up for our RMDs when they come due.
So I would want to touch those.
So it would be about 400 that over the next four years. We're living off of our Social Security and our pensions, not even spending our Savings income right now.
So I'll still be about twenty thousand. Short of getting above the 12% federal rate this year, now that the bill is helping us out. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm tracking with you there, and I think that makes a lot of sense.
So I think you are thinking about it the right way.
So where are you going to, when you pull the money out, what are you going to do with it at that point?
Well, that's something I'll pass by the advisor once I make the decision. Yeah, okay, yeah, very good. Yeah, I mean, I think because we've locked in these lower rates, it does, you know, remove some of that uncertainty and gives you an opportunity. I think the key is go into that with a real clear strategy on how you're going to reposition the money once it comes out. But I think this is a great time, just given the assets that you have, Jeff, to visit with your CPA and your advisor to do some tax planning and some investment planning and see if repositioning some of these assets makes sense.
You know, don't miss the opportunity for the qualified charitable distribution to get money out of any IRA accounts that you have tax-free. Are you aware of that? Yeah, already doing that. My wife is w we started that this year with my wife. I'm not there yet, but yeah, are doing that one.
I wish I could do it myself. Yeah. Yeah, you gotta be 70 and a half, unfortunately. Getting closer, though. Hopefully, La Lord Terry's and I can get there.
Or maybe not, right? I think we'll be in much better shape. Here we go. Here we go. Hey, God bless you, my friend.
Stay on the line. I want to send you a gift. I appreciate you calling today. I want to send you a copy of our magazine, Faithful Stewart. I think it'll be an encouragement to you and your wife, and we'd love to send that to you.
So stay on the line. We'll get that out to you and call anytime if we can help you. All right, to Louisiana. Didi, thanks for calling. Go ahead.
Hi, I appreciate your show so very much. Very nice. Thank you. I appreciate it. Honestly, I couldn't.
That's awesome. Mm. Grandchildren, their ages are 3, 18 months, and one week. I'm going to have set up some kind of account for them where I can put money in. Here lately, I've considered.
Anyway. Universal lighting. Insurance policy, and at this point, I would love your advice on. Which direction to go? Yeah.
Universal life for grandchildren, I would say, can work, but it's generally not the best tool and not going to be my first choice for sure. It's more expensive than other savings vehicles. The returns on the cash value are often low and can be eaten up by fees. And I think you could have better long-term financial growth in either a 529 plan or other investments.
So if your goal is a financial blessing and not really insurance, because we don't need insurance on the kids or on your life because nobody's counting on you for income, then I would say either considering an education savings plan, if that's what it's for specifically, like a 529, or considering just a straight investment account where maybe, you know, it's still in your name, not a custodial account, because the problem with that is it becomes the kids' account at the age of majority, and they may not be spiritually or financially mature enough to take. Take it at that time. And yet it automatically becomes their money.
So, if they wanted to buy a sports car, or, you know, let's say, and let's pray this isn't the case, but their lifestyle happened to be at that moment kind of orienting away from the Lord, this money could be used for things that you're not very excited about. And so, that's where a custodial account kind of takes that away from you in terms of choosing how and when you're going to actually hand this money off to them.
So, if you didn't want to do the 529, I'd probably just have you open separate brokerage accounts in your name, or if you're married, you and your husband. And earmark them for each of the three grandkids and then just dollar cost average, you know, however much money, whether it's a one-time amount or a monthly amount, into that account, have it just go into some straight, high-quality exchange-traded funds or mutual funds, and just let it grow. And you don't need to pay the expenses related to the insurance, you know, which makes it more complex and more expensive. And just have a straight investment and just kind of forget about it and even automate the contributions. And you'll have quite a nest egg down the road when it's time to think about handing this off to the grandkids.
Does that make sense though? It does make sense. My goal for them is for them to have money for education or whatever field they choose. to go into. I in no way want them.
Uh just did it out first. Are possibly irresponsible with it.
So I appreciate this information. Yeah, no problem.
Now, I mean, the question is always, especially when it comes to CranKids, do we want to put it in a vehicle that requires it to be used for qualified educational expenses? And that typically means vocational and technical schools as well. Because if you believe that's really what it's for, then I would say the 529 plan is the best way to go. You can get the money out if they get scholarships and grants on a pro-rata basis. They can use it for college.
They can use it for trade schools, vocational and technical.
So the money grows tax-free as long as they pull it out for those qualified educational expenses.
So if that's what you're thinking, then you control it as well. That's the direction I would go. The key is which 529 plan? Because you may find that Louisiana is not the best one for you.
So I would head to my Favorite website for this? It's savingforcollege.com. Savingforcollege.com. And you'll find it'll, you tell it all the information about you and it'll recommend the top five 529 plans because you can go out of state to another state's 529 if the returns are better in terms of historical performance. Savingforcollege.com.
Didi, you sound like a great grandmother. Thanks for your call today.
Well, folks, that's going to do it for us, man. We covered a lot of ground today.
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