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That's faithfi.com and click give. The purposes of a person's heart are deep waters, but one who has insight draws them out. Proverbs 20, verse 5. Hi, I'm Rob West. Today we're kicking off a new series on temperaments. How our God-given wiring shapes the way we communicate, relate to others, and make financial decisions. Kathleen Edelman and Tracy Shepherd join us to explore the red temperament and how it influences our financial decisions. And then we're on to your calls at 800-525-7000.
That's 800-525-7000. This is faith and finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, today we're kicking off our four-part series with Kathleen Edelman exploring the four temperaments featured in her book and course, I Said This, You Heard That. How your wiring colors your communication.
It's a powerful resource that unpacks how our God-given wiring shapes every part of our lives, including our finances. And Kathleen, delighted to have you back as we begin this journey. I love talking about this topic with you. Well, it's so much fun.
I'm so looking forward to every part of this. And I know you've brought a friend with you, Tracy Shepherd, who helped you teach on this temperament in your course. She's here to give us an inside look at the first temperament we're exploring in this series. And that is the red temperament. Tracy, great to have you as well. Oh, I'm excited to be here.
Thank you. Kathleen, I'd love for you to begin by just providing a brief overview of the four temperaments for those who may not be familiar. So the temperaments date back to Hippocrates, 600 years before Jesus walked the earth, and they fell into four categories.
And each one speaks their own language. So we have the yellow sanguine speaks the language of people and fun, an extrovert that's people oriented. We have a red choleric that speaks the language of power and control, an extrovert that's on the task side of the chart, a blue melancholic that speaks the language of perfection and order, an introvert that's on the task side of the chart, and a green flagmatic that speaks the language of calm and harmony, an introvert that's people oriented. So these temperaments play into how you speak, how you hear, how you talk, what your behavior is, and how you deal with money.
Yeah, absolutely. And as we mentioned, Tracy's temperament is red, which is typically a take charge kind of person. So Tracy, I'd love to know when you first took Kathleen's assessment and it identified you that way, what went through your mind? When I read the definition of a red temperament, I thought, yep, that's me. I love tasks, give me all the tasks.
I'll get them done. So it was definitely an aha moment to learn the why behind how I communicate and the relationships I have and the behaviors, the good and the bad and the ugly of a red temperament. So most reds aren't shocked. And they feel like the fix it person in the room. And they've probably felt this way since childhood. But many tell me that it's really simple.
If you say you're going to do it, then do it. If you don't do it, then they feel like they have to step up, step in, take charge, fix it. You know, the temperament framework helps them to see the strength behind that drive. And it helps them become more aware that of that dynamic leader that they can be instead of the bully on the playground.
So it gives them the tools to balance that strength with empathy and connection. Well, let's get right into it. So Tracy, how does that red wiring then show up in the way you approach money? Well, I love budgets. I love a plan. My desire to know a plan definitely comes from my red temperament wiring. And I'm goal oriented. So give me a budget or a goal to have in savings, and I'll make it happen. Just tell me what it is.
I'll figure it out. My husband is a yellow temperament who is has different interests and opinions on how we spend money. But I've learned that that it's not necessarily wrong what he enjoys and how he spends money on food and entertainment vacations and concerts. It's just not how I would use money.
And that's okay. I value having an efficient budget that with a large savings account to feel safe. So I just think that learning how other people are using money isn't a bad thing. It just helps you understand the why behind it. So we have a lot of conversations about budgets and finances. We own a business together, and which is interesting as a husband and wife. But we oftentimes will bring in a third party to help us when we can't be on the same page about making a plan or a savings, how we spend, save, and give for sure. So helpful and it makes so much sense. We're talking temperaments today, specifically the red temperament with Kathleen Edelman, along with Tracy Shepherd, our representative red temperament today. And we're talking about how all of this affects money and money decisions.
Also how you communicate back with much more after this. We're grateful for support from movement mortgage who provides residential home loans in all 50 States guided by a mission to love and value people and a goal to redefine the mortgage process movement seeks to help others achieve their financial goals. You can find out more at movement.com slash faith movement mortgage LLC supports equal housing opportunity and MLS number 39179.
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We're kicking off a four part series on your temperament and how it affects your money decisions. Uh, Kathleen is our good friend. She's the author of the book and the course.
I said this, you heard that how your wiring colors, your communication. We're also joined by Tracy Shepard, who is here to talk about specifically the red temperament. She has taken the assessment. She is clearly a red and she's representing all of you red temperament folks out there in our audience today as we talk about money and money decisions. And Kathleen, before the break, Tracy was sharing that as a red, she loves budgets. She wants to know the plan. She loves a goal. She will make it happen. And that has real implications.
Oh yeah. Reds are doers. They see money as a tool to accomplish a goal and what they're uniquely wired for is visionaries. They can see that goal so clearly, but that same drive can lead them to control conversation or dismiss others inputs and not seeing the obstacles in the path, just the means to the end. So in family or business settings that can cause tension unless they slow down and invite collaboration using the important communication skill of showing interest and curiosity.
Tracy, let's talk about that for a moment. Would you say that kind of confidence is an advantage when it comes to managing money? Yes, that confidence is definitely helpful.
Someone that's like she said, the doer. I have no doubt that I can get the job done. I can stretch a budget and I don't even care what the budget is big or small. I can make it work. I will say though that I do find that showing that interest in other people's temperament when discussing the budget in the workplace and at home is asking, all right, hey, tell me why you think that way.
Tell me the why behind, I'm curious, you know, why you would spend money or save money that way. So definitely have to throw in a third party to help make that connection sometimes. Yeah. Reds, they're bullet point bottom line thinkers, but what we have to understand is they do think things through, even if others don't see it. Oh, so far ahead. Yeah.
Oh yeah. So they don't always pause to hear another's perspective. A red would benefit greatly by another important communication skill, which is listening to understand instead of listening to reply. But when a red steps back and listens, they can make the good and hard decisions and they can help everybody through the process.
Yeah, that's really helpful. And they want to make sure that we're following the plan as well. Kathleen, you've shared before that each temperament has specific emotional needs. So what are the innate needs for someone with a red temperament? So red's loyalty right off the bat, being prioritized and knowing you have their back, sense of control, everybody pulling their weight and following the plan, appreciation, being valued for their unique strengths and credit for work, being valued for their contributions. So if these needs are not being met, the red may not be met. The red may start to control with anger or tone. Tone is what we really struggle with with that red temperament. But when they are met, they are dynamic leaders we're following, and they inspire others to move forward in their own strengths.
Yeah, that makes sense. Tracy, how do those core needs resonate with you? Oh, big time. I mean, sense of control is huge for me. I don't want to be the one in control.
I just need to know that somebody is in control. So and loyalty really resonates with me. I value authentic relationships and friendships that are honest and open.
I mean, friends that are supportive and show up and I show up for them is definitely a value. And for credit for work, when I have a vision in any area of life, I enjoy gathering information, collecting the facts, thinking and working through until I see it come to fruition. I get a sense of accomplishment from that. So when Kathleen says that reds are always thinking, we're thinking 10 steps ahead all the time.
I love that. So many reds do have that aha moment around these needs. And you heard Tracy, she doesn't want to be in charge. She wants everybody pulling their weight and following the plan. So they realize that that's when they can get angry is when somebody doesn't say what they're going to say they're going to do, or especially if somebody else takes credit for their work. It's not ego. It's about innate needs.
And once they can name those innate needs, they're far more likely to express them in a healthy way. Yeah, that's really encouraging. And, Tracy, what about when you're having conversations about money?
Do you feel like your red temperament comes through in those moments? Yeah, like, especially working with a budget, like somebody give me the budget, I can make it if you want me to, you can be in charge of the budget, just tell me what the budget is big or small, and I'll make it work. I'll take charge and follow the plan. I like everybody else to follow the plan also. But I'll be loyal and stand behind you if you make the budget. And I'm not easily overwhelmed with finances.
So if you give me a project to work on, I'm happy to do that. So reds can go into an I'll decide or let's move on mode. If somebody else doesn't step up, they're efficient. But they can come off as impatient or even harsh if people aren't stepping up to the plate.
So it's important reds to slow down. This will make a huge difference, especially when they learn to ask the other temperaments. If you just ask them, hey, what do you think about this?
What do you feel about this? There's more than one way to be right. So that communication skill of the power of the pause, this can change the whole tone of the conversation for the red. Well, that is so helpful. Tracy, what's then the key takeaway for someone who is a red or for someone in a relationship with a red?
Well, I have so much I could say about this. Since learning so much about the temperaments, mine and others, I am so much more self aware of how my words come across, how they affect other people. I'm constantly reminding myself, Tracy, pause, don't be so blunt. Don't talk over other people. Like I said, my mind's moving faster than what it comes across. And I sometimes can speak before thinking. For other reds, I would just say, hey, slow down, try to remind yourself to be present.
We quickly get ahead of ourselves and not stay in the moment. And for those in a relationship with a red, I asked my husband this too. And he agreed to remind others that reds are not trying to be controlling or strict. We just want to know the plan and we know someone's in control, then we can feel safe and are better mentally prepared.
Yeah. Being a red is a strength, uniquely wired to be a visionary and see goals clearly. It's important that the reds out there, it's important to them that the other temperaments understand that you have thought things through. You heard Tracy, she's 10 steps ahead of everybody else, thinking it through. So trusting in others' strengths and connection will definitely take you further than any force could ever take you.
So reds, your big picture thought process brings value to any financial decision. And when you lead with both confidence and compassion, that's where the transformation and communication and relationships and financial discussions are going to happen. And I think we're going to continue to see this theme throughout this series, Kathleen, and that is when we really lean into this, we're going to make better decisions in the long run when we bring everybody to the table and they're heard and they're understood. This has been such a great conversation. Unfortunately, we're out of time, but thank you both for joining us today. If you found today's conversation helpful, there's more to come. Kathleen Edelman will be back next week to cover the green temperament as well as other colors in future episodes. Read Kathleen's insightful article on the four temperaments and how they affect money and faithful steward get a copy each quarter when you become a partner at faithfi.com slash give back with your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is faith and finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
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Mutual funds distributed by Timothy Partners Limited and ETFs distributed by Foresight Funds Services LLC. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance. Here in our final segment today, we want to get to as many calls as we can. So if you have a question, call right now. Anything going on in your financial life, 800-525-7000. Laverne, thanks for calling. Go ahead. Thanks for taking my call, Rob. Okay, so my husband and I, we sold our primary home last year and we're going to invest it in multi-family. That didn't work out.
We're still going to do that. However, we have another building that I'm running my business out of. We have a mortgage balance of 180.
The interest rate is 3.75. So we're thinking of paying off that 180 by doubling the mortgage over two and a half years versus 24 years. Is that a good idea?
Yeah. So let's talk through this. I mean, I never would be opposed to you paying off a mortgage early. It is a low interest rate.
And so I'd want to understand just the opportunity cost of what you're giving up by putting that money into this illiquid asset of a home. But let me just make sure I understood what you said. Did you say you already did sell your primary residence?
Yes, we did. Okay. So what is this property here with the 3.25%?
Okay. So it's an investment property. We're temporarily staying there. We were renting for a year, which was 30,000 for that year. So we decided to pretend we're still paying that rent, put it on the mortgage and pay it off in two and a half years versus 24 years to save that interest. Yeah.
Okay. And so where would that money come from? So you in two and a half years, you're going to pay off 180,000. Is that right?
That's how I worked it out. The mortgage we're paying now plus adding the rent that we were paying, which was about 3,000. So we would add that extra 3,000 to the mortgage to be mortgage free in two and a half years. So that's about six, I mean, what about 7,000 a month you're going to send to cover the interest?
A little over 6,000 a month. Correct. Yeah. Okay.
Yeah. And what other assets do you have right now? Well, we, we have the money from the primary. Oh, it's about 200,000.
And we have about 16,000 in business credit card debt and about 3000 in personal, which get paid off every month. Okay. Yeah. But you don't have any retirement accounts or anything like that? No. Okay.
Yeah. I mean, the only thing I would say is, you know, there's not a whole lot of diversification there. I mean, you would have pretty much all of your assets tied up in real estate, which there's nothing wrong with real estate. It's just that, you know, you, you don't have anything working in a tax deferred environment and you are all in one asset class, that asset class being real estate. Now that real estate is going to appreciate regardless of whether you pay off the mortgage. So really, you know, all you're doing is you're saving the 3.75%.
And the reality is, you know, if you were to take that same you know, I don't know whether, what is it? 3000 a month, 36,000 a year and put it away elsewhere. You know, you could probably, you know, it wouldn't be that difficult for you to outpace that 3.75%. And at the same time, you'd be further diversifying yourself among asset classes. So in addition to real estate, you'd have some in stocks and bonds, which is more liquid. Because if you ever need to get to it, you could, you know, sell the stocks or bonds and have the money whereas as you know, it's it's more illiquid. You know, with real estate, you've got transaction costs, and it takes time to sell.
So unless you all just are obviously you like real estate a lot, but unless you're just opposed to investing in the market, and therefore you'd rather just keep everything in your real estate, I would say, especially given that you're planning to buy a multifamily property here with the proceeds of the primary residence, I would probably just ride that mortgage out at a low rate and get that money invested so that you've got something that can be growing for your future alongside the appreciation of that real estate. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. Thank you so much. Yeah.
And I you're welcome. I try to get as much of that going into a in a retirement account as possible if you do that. So I'd probably use Roth IRAs. Are you all over the age of 50? Yes, we both are. Okay.
Yeah. So you would be able to put in $8,000 each for the year. So 16,000 for 2025. And then you could turn around and do that again, perhaps even a little bit more for 2026.
The additional amount beyond those IRAs, you'd have to put in a taxable account, but you still could, you know, get that money working for you and make it and invest it. So hopefully that gives you some things to think about. Laverne sounds like you and your husband are doing a great job managing all this. We appreciate your call today. Let's round out the program today by talking to Tammy in Mississippi.
Go right ahead. Hi, Rob. Thank you for taking my call. I have a question about a whole life policy.
I'm calling for a friend of mine on age 68. And he's had this policy business since the early 90s. And the issue for us is he doesn't need the money for a death benefit.
He's got that covered. But it says that there is a cash surrender value of 36,000. But our concern is, do you actually get that money? How do you discontinue it? What happens to the money in these policies that he's already put into it?
Yeah, very good. Yes. So the cash surrender value is in fact cash that's available to you. And it in most cases, that cash value life insurance is not taxable, as it grows within the policy. So it's tax deferred, which means it, it could be taxable as you take it out.
So you'd want to understand that. But yeah, you should be able to take that out. The implications would be, Tammy, that you're collapsing the policy so that that death benefit would no longer be enforced, the policy would be canceled, and they'd send you a check. But you absolutely can do it. And to your point, if the death benefit is no longer needed, I like that idea.
And I think you should be able to take that and put it to better use. Great. Thank you so very much. I appreciate it. You're welcome. And check with your CPA on that.
You may find that, you know, like I said, it isn't usually taxable, but you just want to make sure nothing catches you by surprise there. Thanks for being on the program today. May the Lord bless you.
Well, folks, boy, what a treat to be along with you today to help you think through your role in managing God's money. Hey, before we wrap up today, let me just invite you to become a FaithFi partner. Partners are a key part of our ministry as a listener supported ministry. We can only do what we do because of your generous support. And so if you find value in the program, maybe you listen regularly, you love what we're able to do each day to encourage you in your journey as a steward. Well, being a partner would be a key way for you to help support this work.
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That's faithfi.com. Big thanks to Amy, Anthony, Lisa, Tahira, and Jim. It takes a team to pull this off each day. For the entire team, I'm Rob West. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye-bye. Faith and Finance is provided by FaithFi and listeners like you.
