Is Our Theology of Money Upside Down? with Paul David Tripp

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I am Rob West. Most of us view our income as God's primary way of providing for us and then almost as an afterthought, we consider giving. But what if scripture teaches the opposite? Paul David Tripp is here to flip our theology of money upside down and then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. This is faith and finance biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, our guest Paul David Tripp is a pastor, author, and speaker who's written more than 30 books and videos on Christian living. His passion is connecting the transforming power of Christ to everyday life. He's a good friend of ours here at Faithfi. Paul, it's great to have you back on the program.

It's good to be with you. Paul, you have a really insightful blog post at PaulTripp.com. It's titled, Is Our Theology of Money Upside Down? And boy, it really hits to the heart of what we do here at Faithfi because our vision is that all Christians would see God as their ultimate treasure, which really aligns with this idea.

I'd love for you to just explain this idea of the blog for us. I mean, I can explain this idea in two words. When we think of money, we think God gave us money so we could live. He's actually given us money so we could give. And that flip will transform the way you think about money and use the money that God has given you. You know, it's a game changer of an idea and we start with this idea that God owns everything and we are his household managers of what he has entrusted to us.

So we own nothing, but we have stewardship responsibilities. Money is a good gift from God and it's okay to enjoy and to provide, but you're proposing that's not the primary objective. Unpack that theology of money that you're articulating from God's word. Well, the Bible is the world's greatest generosity story. Yeah, literally the display of God's generosity is spread across every part of Scripture, maybe captured by the nine words of John 3 16 for God.

So love the world that he gave. We worship a generously lavishly giving God and money is his means of inviting us to join him in his generosity mission on Earth. That's that's the theology of money and it's rooted in fact that God is the one who allocates money to us. My money is not just the result of my gifts and my hard work.

Jeremiah 27 says it is by my great power and my outstarts arm that I made the Earth and the men and animals that are in it and I give it to whoever it seems right to me. So you start with the fact that God has allocated whatever funds I have and he's done that for his purpose. And so perhaps Paul then the different question we should ask is not how much should I give but how much should I keep? Well, that's exactly right because that's that's the flip if my primary purpose of my money is generosity then rather than how much should I give to God? It's how little should I keep for myself so I can join God in this glorious mission of generosity. Wow, that's powerful. So therefore we live in the tension of this and I think that's a good thing because that involves wrestling with the Lord and really a posture of prayer and open-handedness.

Isn't that right? Well, it's rooted in trusting that God will fulfill his promise and he will provide. Yeah, if you don't trust in God as provider, you're going to take provision as your main job and we're endless vats of need and need will never end and will be very little that's left over.

Incredible. Well, we're talking today with Paul David Tripp. He's the author of the book Redeeming Money.

Folks, if you haven't read it, you need to pick up a copy today. Redeeming Money, how God reveals and reorients our hearts. We're talking a theology of money today and perhaps we need to flip our thinking about money upside down.

We'll continue to unpack this just around the corner, including the practical implications for our money management when we embrace this big idea. I'm Rob West. He's Paul David Tripp, back with more faith and finance right after this. Stick around.

Our Dayton, Ron Blue and our own Rob West. Grow in wisdom and knowledge by connecting with a community of thousands of Christians striving to be good and faithful stewards at FaithFi.com or by downloading the FaithFi app. FaithFi is grateful for support from One Ascent. One Ascent believes that your values inspire why you invest and how they can inspire how you invest. One Ascent's goal is to provide solutions designed for every need and invest in businesses that bless the people and places God has made. They want to help investors do well by doing good to explore a new way of investing that aligns with your values.

More information is available at OneAscent.com and by clicking analyze my investments. Great to have you with us today on faith and finance. We're joined today by our good friend Paul David Tripp. He's a pastor, author and speaker. If you haven't read a copy of redeeming money, how God reveals and reorients our hearts, pick it up today.

It's a game changer. It's been really instrumental in my own development of the theology of money. And that's what we're talking about today.

Here's the question. Is your theology of money upside down? And Paul, you challenged us before the break with this idea that the real idea for why God entrusts to us what he does is not so we can live on it. It's first so we can give. And I like to think we're most like God when we're giving because as you point out, he's the ultimate giver, isn't he?

Yeah, it's again, the story of the Bible is just mind blowing generosity of God on on every page. And so money is God's means of welcoming us into this mission of generosity on Earth. So how do you counsel folks that approach you on how much is appropriate for their lifestyle?

What counsel would you give on wrestling through that? Well, we get to the issue of money management. And again, you have to start with biblical values. So is money management important? Absolutely. It is. Yeah. Is being a good steward of my money important?

Absolutely is. But not so I could have a better lifestyle or so I could have a bigger retirement. But so I'm more able to be generous as God has called me to. When you're sloppy with money, then there's all kinds of waste. There's all kinds of needless expenditures.

There's all kinds of emotional spending. And that gets in the way of your ability to be part of this generosity. And Paul, as you pointed out before the break, it really starts with this idea of understanding where our money comes from, because like the parable of the rich fool, you know, he said the words I and my like nine times in that short story, essentially taking credit for what he had received. And really that, you know, that's a misunderstanding of even the power to get wealth, which we know from Scripture comes from God. Right.

Well, there's so much pride in acquisition. Yeah. That passage that I read in Jeremiah 27 five in the last segment just decimates because God says, I made it. It all belongs to me and I give it to whomever I choose. So I have what I have because of divine choice.

Yeah. And all the gifts, all the opportunities, all the experiences, they're all part of God's plan to give me what I have. Paul, we like to say money issues are hard issues. Jesus, of course, said where your treasure is there, your heart will be also. So we know our heart follows our money. And frankly, it's a privilege to be able to give to God's activity.

I mean, he doesn't need us, but he allows us to participate, doesn't he? Yes. I want to comment on what you just said is the way I think of it. Your wallet will only ever go where your heart has already gone. If you can keep that in your mind. My money will only ever go where my heart is already gone. And so change is not first a matter of budget. It's a matter of the allegiance, the loyalty, the love of my heart.

Yeah. And it really comes down to what is your ultimate treasure? You know, I mentioned the parable of the rich fool and we see that profound idea right at the end of the story. After he's called a fool, we see it was because he was not rich toward God. What does that mean, Paul? What does it look like to live rich toward God? It means I wake up every morning and I can't believe that I am a child of God. That God says to me, because I'm his child, he will give me everything I need for life and Godliness.

Bill Gates is rich, but he doesn't have everything. God says, I'll get everything I need for life and Godliness. So I don't wake up feeling poor and needy and looking around me for satisfaction. I get my satisfaction vertically.

Yeah, I'm not shopping for horizontally. So much of the way we waste money is we're searching for ways to satisfy our hearts. And money will never satisfy your heart.

Yes. Yeah, we just have to look around and see plenty of people who have plenty of money that are unsatisfied. The late Tim Keller said money is the most common counterfeit God. He did every sin confessed in his office save one and it's the sin of greed. You know, we can attempt to redeem greed in the name of the American dream if we're not careful, can't we?

Yeah, that's exactly right. And that's another concept theology. Paul, as we think about this topic and then how we're to live, what would you say to that young person, perhaps that newly married couple that's just starting out, how they can resist what I'll call affluenza, this natural gravitation toward our level of spending always rising to our level of income.

What does that look like? Well, if I could refer you to a passage, one of the passages that was transformational for me was Ephesians 4 28. It says, let the thief steal no longer, but rather let him later join honest work with his own hands. Now, you would think that Paul would say next, so he has enough to live on. Yes, but what he says is so that we may have something to share with anyone in need.

Put that verse on the mirror that you look at every morning. Wow. And remember that the labor of your hands isn't first for you.

It's first for someone else. Wow. And just as God expended his lavish goodness to give, give, give to us. God says, expend your labor so that you have the wherewithal to give to others.

Start there. Yes. Paul, we've obviously got to make lifestyle decisions and I want to finish here today. We've got just a minute left. What does it look like then to settle into an appropriate lifestyle that you believe is God honoring and still reflects a proper theology of money that you've articulated? Well, I think the two things we do is we set places that we are always going to give. That's first. We make those decisions first and then we are always looking for needs that come up that we can give to. That means we have to have wherewithal to do that.

Yes. So we're not starting with our needs. Boy, that is a big idea and a game changer when it comes to our money management. The idea that God would be your ultimate treasure and money, a tool to accomplish God's purposes.

And perhaps the primary reason for your wealth is so you can give. Paul, thanks for being here today. You're welcome.

Thank you. That's pastor, author, and speaker Paul David Tripp. You'll find a wealth of insightful content to help you connect the transforming power of Jesus to your daily life at PaulTripp.com. By the way, be sure to check out his book, Redeeming Money, how God reveals and reorients our hearts out of nowhere after all of his books on Christian living and parenting and so many other topics.

He came out with a money book and wouldn't you know, it was incredible. It was something I just thoroughly enjoyed reading and I know you will as well. All right. A quick break and then back with your questions. The number, 800-525-7000.

We'll be right back. We're grateful for support from Eventide Investments on the Faith and Finance program. Eventide's approach to values based investing is grounded in the belief that humankind was created in the image of God with intrinsic dignity, value and worth. Eventide calls this investing that makes the world rejoice. More information is available at eventideinvestments.com.

That's eventideinvestments.com. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions today and it's just about that time. If you'd like to get in on the conversation, call right now, 800-525-7000. Again, that's 800-525-7000. Let's go to Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, JP.

How can I help? Hey, Rob. How are you doing? Doing great. Thanks, sir.

Very good. I have a quick question about my student loans. My wife and I have about 36 grand of student loans and it's bucketed into various groups that have balances between around two grand.

With a rate of three to four percent all the way up to I think the highest ones at around 12 to 15 grand with a six, seven percent rate. So I've been targeting payments towards that higher bucket. But I heard on a previous show that speaking of debt in general, you advise someone to target the lowest balance first.

Should I change my strategy there? Yeah, it's a great question, JP. And what you're asking about is referred to as two different methods of debt repayment. One they refer to as the snowball method.

The other they refer to also in the snow theme, they refer to as the avalanche method. And basically what it gets at is the snowball method is usually recommended where you go from smallest to largest balance regardless of the interest rate. And the reason is because the plan that's most successful or the best plan for you is the one that you will actually complete. And studies show that with the snowball method, even though you might end up paying a little bit more in the way of interest because you're not necessarily prioritizing the higher interest rate first, you are getting that emotional win. So emotionally and psychologically, you're rewarded by taking those early wins of paying off small debts. And those victories over debt incentivizes you to keep going. And again, the one that you'll complete is the one that's the best for you.

Now, the other method, which is referred to as the avalanche method, will actually save you more money in the long run because you'll pay less interest. But that first victory, as is in your case too, is going to come a bit further down the road. And a lot of people get discouraged and give up their debt repayment plan. So here's what I would say. If you're determined, you and your wife are on the same page, you're like, listen, nothing's going to derail us. And you're confident you're going to see it through, then obviously the avalanche method, the method you're employing right now is going to be the better one. If you're already seeing yourself getting discouraged and perhaps slacking off on maybe some sacrifices you've been making, then that snowball method with the quick victories might be the way to go. Does that make sense?

It does. My quick follow up question to it, though, is there is unpaid interest accumulating in the other buckets. I have to imagine it's accumulating at a slower rate than it would in the large bucket that I'm paying off. Is that OK in the grand scheme of things? Is me paying off the highest ballot, highest interest loan going to outweigh the unpaid interest that's accumulating in the other buckets? Or should I at least throw money at the smaller groups to prevent interest from accumulating? So are those in deferment at this point?

By choice. But they're allowing you to to not pay them and just accrue the interest. Is that right?

Yes. That's my interpretation of it. It confuses the heck out of me. I that's what I get a message on my student loan portal that basically says no payments are due at this time. So it's thoroughly confusing.

But I just I don't understand anything about it. It may be that it's deferred. Is somebody still in school that these debts were for?

No. My wife was in school when she started to accumulate and then she started working for a public institution, which got her some kind of benefit for it. Well, here's my advice. As long as you're focused on it, you feel like you're not going to get derailed. Then I'd say let's use the avalanche method, which you're currently doing. But with one exception, I would pay at least the interest on that other debt, just so we're not seeing that balance continue to rise. You know, now, if they're given the option, obviously, if it's an interest rate that's half of the other one, you can still make the case just to let it grow.

And we'll come back to that. But I would say in either case where you pay the interest or let it grow, I would prioritize paying off the larger debt. It's going to save you money in the long term. Thanks for your call to Virginia. Hi, Ann.

How can I help? I'm going to try to explain this. My husband and I are retired and we're in the process of moving monies from an IRA into a Roth. And so our CPA has explained that we can put some monies into a charitable gift account to help offset some of the tax that will be paid. Then they suggest that we can use charitable gift monies to pay our regular tithes.

And something inside of me seems gray about that. I feel like we've received a benefit from putting those monies into a charitable gift account and that tithing needs to be off of new monies. Just want to know your thought, if I'm explaining it correctly. No, I appreciate that. So you've got if I understand correctly, the money is in the IRA right now, correct?

Correct. OK. How much do you have in there? It's quite a bit. And we're doing it in chunks, different years. OK. And you're then going to move it to a Roth or did you say a charitable gift annuity or what is it going into from the IRA? We're in the process of trying to get the IRA into a Roth, all those monies into a Roth, just to since we're retired, taking care of that tax amount. OK. And some of the monies putting I'm not real sure I'm the one on the outside listening to them talk. But they're suggesting that we put these monies into a charitable gift, not the Roth or other finances or other monies from somewhere else. And they say, well, if we put these monies in charitable gifts, then you can use those to pay your tithe every month or week or whenever we do that. And I just look at them and I it just seems like a gray area to me. I feel like we receive a benefit tax benefit or we receive something by putting monies from our finances into charitable gifts. I feel like the charitable gift monies need to go to other charitable things versus I feel like the tithe needs to come off of new income. Got it. Yeah. You know, here's the reality.

And I don't understand all the pieces that are moving here. And I want to make sure they're considering what's called a qualified charitable distribution, because if you guys are at least 70 and a half, you can take money out of the IRA and go straight to your church or your charity of choice or ministry and never pay any tax on it. So it doesn't need to be converted to a Roth. But here's the way I look at I think the heart of your question was you and your husband before the Lord decide how much you want to give. And then where you pull those assets from and whether or not you're doing in a tax advantaged way, I think is just good stewardship.

So I wouldn't divide up the buckets. I would just decide how much do we want to give based on the increase we have, the new income, the assets we have. And let's decide on an annual basis. And then as the Lord leads, we can change that. How much we want to give and then decide from a planning standpoint. OK, how do we want to do it and how do we do it in a way that's tax advantaged? That's the way I would approach it.

But also ask your adviser about a qualified charitable distribution. Fortunately, I'm out of time, man. Thanks for your call today. Big thanks to my team today, Sandy, Devin and Jim. God bless you. We'll see you next time. Faith and finance is provided by faith by and listeners like you.