Dr. Brown Is Back from Australia with Josh McDowell and David French

I'm back from Australia and I've got a special guest with me, Josh McDowell. Um It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth.

That's 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Ah, home, sweet home. Boy, does it feel nice to be back home, back in the studio.

Delighted to be with you.

So I traveled yesterday from leaving the place where I was staying to getting home was about 30 and a half hours. I got a great night's sleep last night, and here we are, ready to go. Thanks for praying for me and thinking of me when I was in Australia. Thanks for missing me. I know we had some great guest hosts, including for the first time, spiritual son and colleague Ron Cantor.

Everyone's telling me what an Awesome job you did, but I expect nothing less from Ron.

So thanks for listening and thanks for the kind words in my absence. Of course, we did shows from Australia. I just was not able to take your calls and do them in our normal format. In a few minutes, I'm going to welcome for the first time to the line of fire the Josh McDowell. Yes, that Josh McDowell.

We're going to have a great talk about his new book, The Beauty of Intolerance. And Uh just a quick few highlights from Australia.

So I got in on a Friday morning. I was there for 10 days and spoke then Friday night, twice that Saturday, twice that Sunday, then once on a Monday, twice on Tuesday, Wednesday, once on a Thursday, then flew into Melbourne, where the temperature is about 20, 30 degrees lower. It was about 70 when I left Sydney. Beautiful sunny day, got in Melbourne. I think it was in the high 30s, bad rain.

I wasn't quite prepared for that weather. Anyway, Got in there and then spoke four times Friday plus a QA, and then a couple times Saturday. Wonderful Jewish outreach. Had a delightful talk with the head of the Department of Jewish Studies at the University of Melbourne. He's followed my work for some time, knows me as a messenger too.

And he attended. We had a delightful discussion afterwards, the Jewish outreach meeting we had, and then spoke three times Sunday and then the journey back yesterday.

So we had great times, some effective Jewish outreaches, really getting to touch a number of Jewish people who didn't previously believe, coming to the meetings, hearing the message, which was absolutely wonderful. Got to see the Holy Spirit move powerfully in some of the church services and just met some folks. One dear sister drove five hours just to hear me at a QA on Sunday nights. Others telling me how they listened to the broadcast every day. But something happened.

A Sunday night that Deeply touched me. Finished about an hour and a half of Q ⁇ A. And when that was done, different people were coming up to talk to me. And a young woman came up. 14 years old.

lives there in Australia. And she's all choked up, 14 years old. and she said you have been such a role model to me. 14 years old. Can you believe that?

And we just talked a little bit, and I looked at it, and I said, I will never let you down. By God's grace, we want to be here for this younger generation. And, um, I just grabbed her to give her a hug, and she had her head on my shoulders, just crying. And you know how special that is. And when that happens, it's never just an individual thing for me.

Can I explain that? There's always the sense I have that we're in this together. There's always the sense that I have that whatever I'm able to do for anyone, It's a joint effort that I'm somehow representing you and others, and that together we're making a difference in this world.

So, for flying all the way over there, you know, basically 60 hours of round-trip travel and then. All of the time zone changes right now. It is four in the morning in Australia, so I should still be sleeping just for that one girl. to hear that one comment. was worth the whole trip.

So much happened, so much more to talk about, but we're going straight to Josh McDowell when we come back. Shake the next time. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks so much for joining us on the line of fire. This is Michael Brown, freshly back from Australia. Our latest video that you can watch by going to askdrbrown.org, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org, is: Are the Jewish People Under a Curse?

Based on a misinterpretation of Matthew 27, check that out on askdrbrown.org. A few months back, I had Sean McDowell on the broadcast here. Sean, of course, a great apologist in his own right, but the son of world-renowned apologist Josh McDowell. And look at the bio here. It almost sounds made up, but it's true.

Since 1961, Josh has delivered more than 27,000 talks to over 25 million people in 125 countries. He's the author and co-author of 145 books, including More Than a Carpenter and New Evidence That Demands a Verdict. Recognized by World Magazine as one of the top 40 books of the 20th language, Josh's books are available in over 100 different languages. You've all been blessed and helped by Josh McDowell's material. Josh, what a joy and honor to bring you to the line of fire for the first time.

Hello. Dr. Brown? Hey, we've run into each other a few different settings, but it's great to finally get you on the broadcast with us. But yeah.

I don't know who was hardest good a hold of, you or me.

Well, here we are. Hey, before we get into your new book on the beauty of intolerance, how how many college campuses have you spoken to or guesstimates of how many young people you've addressed over the years? It's a little over 1,260 universities. Wow. Probably no one else has ever done three hundred.

And it's about now it's about forty five million young people. extraordinary. And what would you say is the biggest difference or some of the biggest differences between now and when you first started?

Well, there's probably One major one is on truth. Say twenty years ago, twenty-five years ago, Uh you didn't have to defend troops. Basically, truth was believed to be that which was external, which coincided with reality. And so you could appeal to truth and everybody would understand you.

Now that has totally changed. It's gone from truth being objective Outside of yourself. to subjective truth within yourself. And uh So now basically when the most popular phrase used in youth culture over the world. is it might be true for you, but it's not true for me.

Simply means if you believe it, it's affected your life, then it's true for you, no matter what. And so now For example, I just finished a complete rewrite on new evidence that demands a verdict. Yes. And half the chapters are different. For example, I start out.

Is there such a thing as truth? You see, when I wrote new evidence, I didn't have to defend truth.

Now you have to defend truth. Can you know truth? Is there such a thing as knowledge that you can have knowledge of history? And so that's probably one of the biggest differences. And then The challenge used to be when they would challenge you Uh how How do you know that's true?

Now they say Well, what right do you have to say that? You're intolerant. And it's a shift away from objective truth to subjective truth. That's probably the biggest. And the other is, twenty years ago, Kids are saying what?

I want to deal with the problems of the world.

Now they're saying I've got a problem. Wow. And a shift from concern so much for the world to concern for the individual. Not it. And then of course that's rolled over into the same sex, marriage, transgender, everything.

Because if all truth is personal, Then what right do you have to judge anyone? Right. If there's no external reference point, then how can you say my lifestyle? is not as righteous and just as your lifestyle.

So that's kind of the changes.

Now, what what about the fact that young people are getting exposed to objections to the Bible, objections to God, at younger ages today because of Internet and social media?

Well, that's happening at a lot younger age and Most pastors and parents are not waking up to this. the Internet has changed everything. For example, Questions that I used to hear about the deity of Christ, the resurrection, the Bible, truth, etc. By third, fourth year students in the university. you now hear eleven, twelve, thirteen years old.

because the Internet is taking it younger and younger and younger. And twenty years ago, Atheist agnostics. Uh Had very little access. to our young people. Today They're just one click away.

They have the same access that a church has. And so but I don't mind that because I think we should be ready to give an answer for the hope that is in us. Right. The Internet has brought all these questions up to young people, but the church hasn't prepared people to answer them. And then what about the effective pornography?

on the younger generation. Ha has that been something that you've monitored as well? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. About six.

seven years. 'Cause I started to notice it.

So you know, I'm an apologist, present truth. I said, no, there's something affecting the behavior, the attitude. the truth claims of young people. It took me several years to find out who it was. It's pervasive Internet pornography.

And uh Pornography right now. is by far the greatest threat to the cause of Christ in the history of the church. Nazi. Nothing in the history of the church comes close to it. Like Chuck Smondahl says, it's the greatest cancer in the history of the church.

Um And if we don't deal with pornography, I don't care how much you pray. I don't care how much you teach the word of God. I don't care how many churches you start. I don't know how many group home group situations you have. We will lose.

We Will Moose. Uh Yes. fifty three percent of pastors, evangelical pastors, say in our church we don't have the problem of pornography. Right. What that means is it's probably the greatest disconnect in the history of the church.

between pastures and its people. There's not one Single church in the world. in the furthest jungles of Africa, Asia, Indonesia, whatever. that is not affected. By pornography, not one.

And here in the United States, only seven percent of evangelical churches has any program or any means To help those addicted to pornography, only seven. Percent. Extraordinary. But just show you how big it is. See, most people don't realize how big it is.

There's twenty six million pornographic websites that I can access right this moment on my cell phone. Two billion pornographic web pages.

Now one site, just one site in the last thirty days. Transferred data. produced and transferred. twenty nine petabytes of pornographic data in the last thirty days. What is twenty nine petabytes?

If printed out, This one of twenty six million sites is one site in thirty days would fill five hundred and forty million for drawer file captains. Oh fine. in thirty days. Another site every single day this last year, three hundred sixty five days, has produced about 1.2 to 1.3 petabytes. distributed a pornographic data.

Turn it out. Every day they would fill the entire Empire State Building. Another one every two seconds. Then you get four. thousand new photographic videos being viewed.

And that's one site. Mm.

So these three sites are are not even in the top three. And so uh These people say, well, I don't have to worry about it. My kids won't look for pornography. That's about the dumbest, stupidest statement I've ever heard in my life. And it comes from a lot of Christian moms homeschoolers, but my kids won't look what they probably won't.

The issue is pornography will Fine. Dip. It will find them.

So, yes, you You asked the right question. With young people. The first thing that happens They start to question authority, the authority of the Bible, the authority of Christ. Christ, the authority of the church, the authority of their parents. That's one of the first things.

Second. They develop. An aggressive view of sexuality. A very aggressive view. And women now that are exploding with pornography.

Not all women are this way, but so many of the research shows. Women watch pornography to learn how to save. their marriage. And women and girls watch different types of pornography. Pornographers know that, and they produce it.

Um They produce relational pornography for women. for young girls, which is probably the most rapid growing of pornography, thirteen, sixteen, seventeen year olds or even younger eleven, Uh They watch pornography for two reasons, mainly. One. Hey, Josh, tell you what, I've got to jump in. We've got a break.

We come back, you can finish this off. This is devastating stuff. From Dr. Josh McDowell, and then we'll talk about his new book, The Beauty of Intolerance. Time to be sober and vigilant, friends.

My oh my. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Hey friends, this is Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Because I was unable to take your calls live last week while I was in Australia, phone lines are open now: 866-34TRUTH-866-348-7884. And in a few minutes, I will take your calls on any subject that you want to raise to me of any kind.

So now's a good time to call 866-348-7884. I'm tremendously honored to have with me Dr. Josh McDowell. No apologists. That I know of in church history has had the world impact that he has by God's grace, and he burns with passion to continue to get the truth out to a lost and confused world.

His latest book with his son Sean, The Beauty of Intolerance.

So, Josh, right before the break, you were giving us staggering figures about homosexual pornography, staggering figures, and you were talking about porn that's specially made for women or for girls that comes at it from a different angle. For girls, it's just girls watching they come at girls and women. with more relational porn. set within a context of a relationship. With men, it's just straight out porn.

Uh hardcore. with girls who are watching porn mainly for two reasons. One, How can I keep my boyfriend? What do I need to do to keep my boyfriend? For second How can I get?

A boyfriend. That's why they watch porn. Extraordinary. So, Josh, in short, and you obviously have to sound by things more than ever, when you have a generation that does not accept an external standard. And that subjectifies truth.

Where do you start to point them to the fact that there is absolute truth?

Well, I started with the fact that Um How do they determine reality? What is there consideration of truth. And I found I've almost always been able to do this To bring it back. to the Oh, my mind just went blank. to the uh Oh, correspondence theory of truth.

Okay. Truth. is that which coincides with reality. or truth is that which is Or truth is that which has fidelity to the original mean, the same as equal to The PAX And so How do you know? That uh When they ask me a question on truth, I'll say, How do you know that's true?

And they'll say, well, why does it even matter? I said, what? Do you want The truthful answer? Or the non-truthful answer. They always say.

the truthful answers that I say, well, there must be that which coincides with what is. Is it raining out? Like I'm sitting here in Southern California in my home looking out over a beautiful park. about seventy five degrees. And if somebody makes a statement, well, it is snowing out.

I'll say, is that a true statement?

Well, how do you know? Truth is that which coincides with reality. If outside, There was falling white substance defined as snow, then his statement was true. Why? It corresponded with.

Reality. But in this situation, the statement would be false. because it doesn't correspond with reality. And it's the same in studying the scriptures on the resurrection. It says Christ was raised from the dead.

Well, how do you know that is a true statement?

Well you have to check out the evidence Does it coincide with what is? And what happens? And that's usually how I start. But I'm starting asking them to define truth, and most people can't. Yeah, amazing, amazing.

But just the simple way to get them to think, to draw them out of that. All right. The new book, The Beauty of Intolerance, obviously. That gets you these days branded hater, homophobe, bigot, transphobe, whatever other phobe there might be. Intolerance is an ugly thing.

And yet you're saying In a right way, it can be a beautiful thing.

So explain that for our listeners.

Well? I've created a t-shirt. It caused a lot of Unrest among people. In a big white letters across a black t-shirt in the front, it said big letters, intolerance. And then it said, Is a beautiful thought.

People would walk up to me, they'd get upset. You're a racist, you're intolerant, all they get. I wouldn't say a word to anyone. I just turn around. The back it says.

Isn't it wonderful? That Martin Luther King Jr. was intolerant of racism, that Mandela was intolerant. of apartheid. That Bonhoeffer was intolerant of racism.

That Mother Teresa was intolerant of poverty. And every single person gone. Whoa. I never realized that. I said, that's right.

Uh And So tolerance is a concept you really can't live. It's the number one virtue in the world today in almost every nation, every university, everywhere. And you can't live it. You cannot live the concept of tolerance. Why?

because the word tolerance has gone through a total change. That's why we had to write the book, The Beauty of Intolerance. Tolerance used to mean Look. I don't agree with you, but you have a right to believe it. But I don't agree with you.

Today, that is intolerance. Because today, tolerance has shifted, where all values All beliefs. All lifestyles. All claims to truth. are equal.

And if you dare to say there's any value belief lifestyle claims of truth greater or lesser than another, Then you are a bigot. and intolerant.

Well, you can't live that way. This is why Uh the Prime Minister of England came out and said, Multiculturalism tolerance is a is a failed concept. Merkel of Germany, before the big convention of the young people of her party, came out and said. Multiculturalism and tolerance is a failure. the President of France, the heart of tolerance.

came out in the Parliament of EU in saying Tolerance is destroying our culture. And this is probably why England just voted on Brexit. to exit the EU mainly because of tolerance and multiculturalism. And the way it's destroying every culture in England.

So that's why we had to write the book, The Beauty of Intolerance. For exam here's an example. Right now. we have in the Evangelical Church The first Really? clone culture of tolerance.

And he says, Josh, how can you say that? Look at pornography. ninety three percent of those twenty four years old and younger will say. That They don't have a friend. Who would?

say intolerance is wrong and most of our friends are Christians. You take Eighteen to uh 34-year-olds, 18 to 34-year-olds. And they only one Five percent. would say they have a friend Who would say Pornography is wrong. Right, exactly.

You take thirteen to eighteen-year-olds. It's one out of ten. And so, right now in the church. Look, in the church of 35 and younger. Fifty-five percent would say not recycling is immoral.

Only 32% will say pornography is immoral. Amazingly enough, Dr. Josh McDowell. That's the music. We are out of time, folks.

You've got to get the book, The Beauty of Intolerance. Thank you, sir, for what you've done for a whole generation. We are indebted to you.

Well I feel like I talked too much. I would want to be able to do it. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRU. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. The phone lines are open on the line of fire. Boy, Josh McDowell.

Does he have a message? Does he have information? Does he have truth? What a joy to have him on the line of fire. We'll have to get Sean back on the air.

Maybe Sean and Josh together at one time. That would be an absolute blast. But yeah, just looking at his bio as one. Myself, that's been out and around. It's staggering to see how the Lord has used him and opened doors for him to get the message of truth out around the world.

866-348-7884. Anything you want to ask me about, any question you've wanted to ask, anything you want to talk about? Today's a good day to call as I'm freshly back from Australia. Again, thank you for your prayers.

So, here I am in Australia doing a lot of meetings focused on Jewish ministry. That was the heart of my invitation, but then a good amount of church preaching also at let's see, one, two, three. For different locations and one Two, three, four, five, six different meetings in church settings. That were not in Jewish-related meetings. And what are some of the big, big issues they're dealing with nationally?

They're dealing with the issue of redefining marriage. They're dealing with aggressive LGBT curriculum in the schools. There is a video that many have seen where an activist, a gay activist, pushing for the safe school curriculum, as they call it, the safe program, that That he openly said, it's not about the safety of the students. We're not unsafe, it's about getting our message out in the schools.

So here we are in Australia and these things are issues. And the issue of pornography, boy, are we going to stick our head in the sand with that. Are we going to stick our head in the sand with that as if it doesn't exist, as if it's not real? I was uh writing A new book that I'm working on to come out next year, and talking about one of the chapters, The Plague of Pornography in the Church, and talking about how people younger and younger, kids younger and younger, are getting exposed to it. It's often said the guesstimate for the average age that kids first encounter pornography is 11.

But I had a guest on a few months back that focuses on these issues and said it could be as young as 8 now. average first exposure to pornography.

So there's not even an understanding of of sexuality then. There's not even an understanding of of the sexual act for your average eight year old, or certainly they're they're not thinking lustful thoughts and things like that. And uh eight eight years old. And what kind of impact does it have? What kind of impact does it have on kids as they grow and mature when they're exposed to these things?

So I had just written those words. I took a break for a second, checked my email. And there in the junk folder, you know, typical, you know, I'm some lady, I'm waiting for you, I've got, you know, just click, and there I am. It's unreal. The onslaught.

Of course, everything we need is found in the Lord. And the wisdom that we need is found in the Lord. And the accountability and the practical advice that we need is found in the Lord. And when I say in the Lord, that also means it's among God's people. We have everything we need to live an obedient life and live victoriously above these things, but if we don't recognize the urgency of the hour, if we don't recognize the level of the plague, then certainly we will not effectively address it or combat it.

All right, I'm going to go to phone the phones. As soon as we get back on the other side of the break, 866-348-7884. Oh.

So much news with Donald Trump and evangelical Christians. And a whole lot we'll talk about in the second hour. I'll have a special guest, David French, joining me to talk about Brexit, what has happened with Britain exiting from the European Union, further dimensions on that. And of course, in the aftermath of the Orlando massacre, more and more people saying the problem is Christian-based homophobia. And I've written an article.

It's getting a lot of attention. Go to askdrbrown.org, a-skdrbrown.org, check on latest articles. It's getting a lot of attention. And what's it about? It is about, we're not going to rewrite the Bible.

We're not going to rewrite the Bible for gays and lesbians. All right, your calls as soon as we get back. Shake the It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Welcome, friends, to the line of fire. Michael Brown, so glad to be back from Australia, one of my longest overseas trips in a long time. Thrilled to be back home and thrilled to be back in the studio with our great team here and thrilled to be taking your calls, which I couldn't do in Australia.

So, thanks for your patience in missing me, and thanks to our team for holding things together so well in my absence from the country. 866-34TRUTH. We start in Alberta, Canada. Our friend Nick, how are you doing today, buddy? Hi, very good, Dr.

Brown. How are you? Good. You know, it pays to call in from Canada because I tend to remember the provinces and the callers better.

So good to hear from you. Oh, good. Right on.

Well, I'm a huge fan. When I was in university, my friend, who was a Christian, who was falling away, and he started studying outreach Judaism material from Tobia Singer. And he started to ask me about a lot of the stuff, and I didn't know what to say. I didn't have any answers. And I came across your resource.

Countering the counter-missionaries. Studied that on the side, and I got to tell you, I'm just forever grateful for the information you put together there. It really strengthened my faith. It gave me challenges for him to. Just an amazing resource.

Well, thank you. Yeah, let me just mention this quickly. Tovia Singer and I debated in the early 90s. We did an impromptu one at the house of a Russian Messianic Jew that was recorded informally by a number of people. In other words, they just had their tape recorders on the table.

And Tovia Singer asked me not to release those tapes, which we never did.

So that should tell you something. We then did a debate on a show that Sid Roth had. It used to have a different radio show format, and it went to a large listening audience in New York City. And then the three of us agreed on what calls to remove from it just to get it down to a 90-minute tape and release that. And thereafter, Tovia refused to ever debate me again.

I reached out to him a lot. We had late-night dialogue a number of times. I was really interceding for him, and then he cut me off and has refused to debate under any circumstances. But when I wrote my five-volume series, Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, Tovia's material was part of what I interacted with, but there.

So many different counter-missionaries, counter-missionary organizations, books that are written that I wanted to take in a larger range of objections that I encountered in decades of interaction with the Jewish community. But the Countering the Counter Missionaries DVD series, DVD CD, which is 22 hours long, and for which we'll soon be releasing a study guide as well, that one I'm more specifically Focused on his material. A Jews for Jesus leader raised it to me that his material had done a lot of damage and was filled with misleading misinformation.

So I said, you know what? I've had the same thought. We partnered with Gateway Church. They provided the video crew and the building, and we recorded this series.

So his name is coming up more, Tovia, because he's actually trying to turn Gentile Christians away from Christianity, going to countries like Indonesia and actively campaigning to turn Christians away from Christianity, which is a newer thing that he's been doing and perhaps something more lucrative.

So in any case, that 22-volume or 22-hour series specifically refutes his material in a more focused way. And it's unfortunate he's a terrible misleader. We pray for his repentance and salvation, but it's unfortunate people have been. confused.

So so Nick, that material was of help to you. When you presented it to your friend, how did he respond?

Well actually, he never had a good answer to the challenges and the questions and the things I point out to him in the scripture that I learned from your DVDs. And uh it really got to the point where I realized he w he wasn't looking for truth. He had made up his mind that he was going to become uh uh you know an Orthodox, a Jew, no matter what, di it and it wasn't based on facts anymore. And at that point, it kind of ended our conversation. We just pretty much had to go on to other topics.

Yep. Because I realized he wasn't open. Yep, something wrong in the heart. I suspected you were going to say that. There are people that you presented with answers and they wrestle back and forth.

You can see they're trying to process them. I had a couple of talks like that with an ultra-Orthodox Jew in Sydney, and then with a Christian who's wavering in Melbourne. And you can see they're processing their thinking. And there are others that obviously, no matter what you present, They've already made up their minds, so to say. Anyway, back back to your question, sir.

Yes. The question I have for you today is, so I've been reading through the Torah, and I just spent five weeks in Israel, so I'm having the joy of visualizing the locations as I go through the books. And I came across in Genesis 14, something stood out differently to me than ever before, when Abraham rescues Wat in a battle that takes place up by Dan in the north of Israel. That that cuts. Of made me think, wait a minute, but I thought, well, if Moses is the author of the Torah.

And Dan only becomes Dan later on in Judges 18 when Moses is already passed on, and Joshua has already passed on. Then how it's an odd I think there was an anachronism that the word then is used. For that town in northern Israel, at the time of Moses being an author of Genesis.

So, could you help me sort that out of the question of who wrote the Torah? And I really love biblical inerrancy, and I want to explain to people that stuff. Yeah, what what c what could I do to make sense of this? Yeah, uh of course, these are great questions.

So if Moses wrote the five books of Moses, then how do you deal, say, with Genesis 12, the Canaanite was then in the land? Or, how do you deal with the last 12 verses of Deuteronomy 34 that speak of the death of Moses?

So these questions were asked as far back as the 12th century. By one of the foremost Jewish biblical commentators, Abraham Ibn Ezra, someone that believed that the five books of Moses were literally dictated. To him, how then do you explain these things? And then Christian scholars dealt with this with the rise of historical criticism and Jewish thinkers like Spinoza raising issues about this. And then German scholars like Grof and Vellhausen saying that, no, no, no, the Pentateuch is not written by Moses.

In fact, the Pentateuch is the last thing that gets written. It's written in the exile and the post-exilic period, etc. And that you have these references. If someone wonders what anachronistic would be, so it would be out of time historically. It would be like saying, and Abraham Lincoln texted this on his cell phone.

He didn't have cell phones, he didn't have texting.

So that couldn't be. Or if you said, Abraham Lincoln was referencing Ronald Reagan in a speech. No, that couldn't happen.

So, how do we explain these things? The simplest answer, and it was that given by Princeton scholar Robert Dick Wilson in the 1800s, is that there are clearly additional glosses. There are clearly statements that are made afterwards by other authors, like the death of Moses, or like the Canaanite was then in the land, but they're equally inspired. In other words, to say that Moses wrote the Pentateuch is not to say that he had to have written every word. There could have been accounts that were passed on to him that he then wrote down about the earlier days of human history, that God had left a record with others.

We don't know that. It could have all been penned freshly by him. But to say that Moses wrote it is not to mean that he wrote every single word and every single syllable, but that he is the basic author. And then if there are additional statements and you do have a number that you have to say yeah that's later. Then, those glosses, those additions are equally inspired by other authors.

That's the issue to us. Inspiration doesn't mean that Moses had to have written every word. Inspiration means that every word written had to be God's word. That's what it means. And there's no reason even to battle over those.

And then sometimes it's just over process of time for clarification, a certain reference wouldn't have meaning. But if you put the updated city, then it would have meaning. Right. Yeah, true.

Okay. For the scribes that were transmitting the text, it would just be easier at one point maybe to write down, and people go, Oh, yeah, there. Right. Yeah, and and the fact is they wouldn't make cavalier changes. Uh that's what we're saying, that we believe if there there were editorial hands at work.

And most of the books, or many of the books, we we certainly suspect that there could have been editorial hands involved. For example, when I wrote my Jeremiah commentary, did Jeremiah edit Every word of it could be something that Baruch described when it was done. Edited things. And some of the book is first person, some of it's third person.

So, and look, and Paul has a scribe writing for him.

So, does the scribe do any editing in what he's writing, or does he sharpen the sentence structure or anything like that? I mean, that all can be debated, but our belief is the overall process was inspired by God. And someone said, Look, but if light is refracted through a multicolored window, then the light comes out differently on the other side. And the answer is, but if God made the window to reflect the light the way he wants it refracted, then the end product is equally from the Lord. And that's how we have to look at the authorship of these books.

Mm.

Awesome.

Okay. And is there any books you could recommend to me that I could read on the authors of the Old Testament and the inerrancy of the Old Testament? I mean, there are a number of books that have been written. If you just get, say, a standard book like Gleason Archer's Survey of the Old Testament. Gleason Archer, top Old Testament scholar, and wrote one of the more important surveys that really stressed these things.

That'd be a good place to start. Gleason Archer, a survey of the Old Testament. That'll be helpful. All right, gotta go, but thank you for the call. 866-34 Truth, right back with your calls on the other side of the break.

The next time I change the world. Angel World. Oh, God of burning, cleansing flame, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Straight back to the phones we go. 866-345.

Forch. Truth, let's go to Jessica. In Indianapolis, hey Jessica, welcome to the line of fire. Hi. Mike, can you hear me?

Yes, I can. That's good. I'm here in Indianapolis, Indiana. I love. your program.

I've been listening to you for about two or three months now. Uh The way I found out about you was through a friend. Because I told her, you know, I am in a Bible-believing church, I am a Christian. I do often. I was teaching classes, but I found out that I was hungry for more.

Than what I was just teaching, and what I knew. My vocabulary is nowhere near as extensive as yours. Like the last call, I didn't even know. What acronym an anachronism was until you explained it, and I started laughing 'cause I was afraid, go get the stars. But I didn't really understand it.

But my vocabulary is not as extensive, and surely I the farthest I've ever been away from Indianapolis is Hawaii. Yeah. I'm not a world traveler, but I do hunger. For more of God. And I know that one of the ways that I can come closer to Him is understanding.

I often feel myself feeling like the The Ethiopian eunuch, when Philip joins himself to the chariot and he says, Do you understand what you're reading? He basically says, No, how will I know if no one thus teaches me? I'm like the man that called before. I would like a point in a direction to where I would start. I don't know Greek and I don't know Hebrew.

I do know what The Torah is But I find when I go searching on the internet, I find words like midrash and tanak, and I know what none of that is. And if I did have a midrash, I wouldn't know how to apply it to what I'm looking for. Jessica, I love your spirit, and I love your openness, and I love the way you're expressing this. Let me just say, there are plenty of words I have to look up to. It all depends on what field we're in, you know.

But how about we do this? How about I send you a free copy of a book called 60 Questions Christians Ask About Jewish Beliefs and Practices, where I'll explain what Midrosh is and what we mean by Torah and all these other things. It's real clear. You'll enjoy reading it, and it's just a gift to you in celebration of you being one of our newer listeners. How's that?

Okay, I really appreciate it. I thank you so much. And I do pray for you.

Well, that helps. I wanted to go to your school, but it's not online yet. But I'm hoping the Lord opens the door for you to Yeah, we put some classes online, and we're hoping to do it more extensively. But thank you. That's just another reminder to us to work on it.

Hey, stay right there, Jessica. Howard is going to get your address, and we're going to send you a free copy of 60 Questions Christians Ask About Jewish Beliefs and Practices. Thank you for the call. Much appreciated. All right, we go to Los Angeles that I was in and out of a couple times in the last 10 days, flying on my way and back from Australia.

Shlomo, welcome to the line of fire. Uh shalom, Doctor Brown. Hey. How are you? Listen, I had a question.

I'm a Messianic believer, and I do believe Yeshua is our Messiah, but I had a question, it's kind of a two-part, but. In your opinion, how do we how would you define that we know That Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John wrote those gospels. uh since we know their name wasn't a tribute to them. Yes, since they don't sign it in that way, the question is: how do we know that for sure?

Well, the first thing is, it's not an issue. If a different apostle wrote it or something like that. In other words, if Uh some w say Andrew Wrote The Gospel of Mark, and it got attributed to Mark, who was not an apostle himself, or if it was Matthew who wrote John or something. That's all the material. In other words, because it doesn't say in the text Matthew wrote this, or Luke wrote this, and Luke who learned from the apostles and checked out the accounts, it's really not a life and death issue to affirm it.

Follow me? It's one thing to say what they wrote is true, but since they didn't sign their names to it, Because of that, we don't have to make that a hill to die on.

However, from what we can tell from the overwhelming testimony of the first centuries believers, in other words, the disciples of the apostles. and those who wrote things down, and those who then quoted them. This was the large attestation. That Matthew wrote Matthew, and Mark, Luke, and John wrote their Gospels. That this was largely attested to, and it was passed on in that respect.

And if you want to do some good academic study on this from another angle, get Richard Baucom's book, B-A-U-C-K-H-A-M, Richard Baucom. Jesus and the eyewitnesses. And it's a great scholarly volume, but he'll really show you why we can tell this is eyewitness testimony. That's the biggest thing. And then Luke, of course, compiling from eyewitnesses.

And then, secondarily, we'll distill why we believe the different author, the different gospels, were really written by those people.

Okay, thank you.

Now the the second part of that is if if we have the earlier testament of the early church Why then do we ignore their testimony that some of the Gospels and even Paul's writings were written in Hebrew, not Greek? It's not some of their testimony. There's nothing that says Paul's letters were written in Hebrew. Zero. No, he doesn't say Paul's letters.

Well, Jerome wrote in his Ecclesiastes, he wrote that Paul wrote Hebrew and it was elegantly translated into Greek. No, Hebrews. Hebrews.

Okay, but Hebrews is not the consensus. Yeah, I've written on this extensively, Shilomo. The consensus on Hebrews is we don't know who wrote it. There is some attestation. Among a handful of the church leaders, mainly relying on the earlier testimony of Papias.

That Matthew compiled the sayings of Jesus in Hebrew, or it could be in Aramaic, all right? Uh or uh that there were some That's all. Not that his whole gospel, even as we have it, was a translation, but that he compiled the sayings of Jesus in Hebrew, but it could even be translated in Aramaic. That's one thing. uh that Jerome said that he had seen.

Among the Jewish Christians that still lived as Jews, that he had seen. uh that he'd seen Hebrews in Hebrew. And possibly even some of the other writings in Hebrew. And there's Jewish tradition in the Talmud that mentions some gospel writing in Hebrew. What we have is zero fragments of any ancient manuscripts of the Gospels in Hebrew or Aramaic.

Zero. all fragments And full manuscripts in Greek, and the fact that all of the church leaders are quoting them in Greek. or in Latin. Uh from the Greek. Uh but none of them are quoting an original Hebrew or Aramaic.

So it's possible.

So, the universal testimony is quite against what you're saying, actually. To get more on this, just search online, put my name in, and quotes Michael O. Brown, and then a review of understanding the difficult words of Jesus. I address this at great length, and I think you'll be helped and enlightened by it. Hey, got a run, but by all means, if you want call, we'll pursue this another day, especially on a Thursday or Friday.

I'd love to talk to you about this more down the line. All right, but out of time right now, got another hour of broadcasting online. Ask DrBrown.org to keep listening. If you've got a call, 866-348-7884, check out our special resource offer. We have an exclusive, an exclusive DVD on the gifts of the Spirit that comes along with the Authentic Firebook.

Only from us, only at askdrbrown.org. I am back from Australia. I've got a special guest to talk about Brexit and a lot of world events right here today. Um It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. That's 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Well, thank you for joining us. Yes, this is your familiar, friendly voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution, Michael Brown, back from Australia. 5 a.m. in the morning Australia time, a little over 30 hours of travel to get back. And thrilled to be back live with you.

And thanks for your words of encouragement in my absence. Thanks for praying for us. Really a fruitful trip. Spoke 21 times in 10 days. And we were in Sydney, Melbourne, and the surrounding areas in Australia.

But check this out. Check this out. As we're going to the airport early. Early Monday morning Australia time.

So it's about 3:30 in the afternoon, Sunday afternoon. I got home about. 9.30 at night. Uh stateside time.

So so Whatever that is, just around 30 hours of travel, just under, or right there.

So I had one afternoon where I did a little sightseeing in Sydney for maybe Hour and a half, something like that, we're able to do that. As I'm on my way to the airport, literally, at 5:30 in the morning. Monday morning Sydney time. The driver says, you know, five minutes from where we are, five minutes. There's a park when at dawn and dusk.

You see kangaroos everywhere. They're just hopping all over the place. Pork. Are you serious? Five five minutes five minutes away.

I could have seen the kangaroos hopping. And I missed it. I didn't know. Yeah. So I I uh I have had oh, let's just see here.

Let's just see. I have had Trips outside the United States, maybe about 160, 170 times, and Probably less than five. We've done sightseeing, but that's all right. Hey, let me just grab a quick call, and then I've got a special guest coming on. We're going to talk about Britain's exit from the European Union and a bunch of other things.

We go to the West Indies, to Trinidad. Morris, welcome to the line of fire. And thank you very much for taking my call, doctor Brong, and welcome back. Thank you, sir. Yes, um I'm the pastor of the Church of the Firstborn Assembly here in the Caribbean, and I do carry a radio program, All Time Gospel Hour.

And from two to four, Monday through Friday. I carry the line of fire, and we really look forward for your teaching and ministry. on apologetics and how we can defend the fate and to give an answer to the hope that lieth within us.

So I just thought it best Let you know that we here in the Caribbean We are tuning in and people tremendously blessed and encouraged And we pray that God will continue to use your life and ministry. and continue to make your blessing to the world. You know, we pray for the Jews. Daily, my wife and myself, and ministry. We pray for the Jews because we believe That the Jewish people have an integral part of our salvation and the purpose why Jesus came and all of those things and uh So we know exactly how to pray and what we should pray for and the importance of the Jews in the world today.

And we're looking forward as we're coming to the end time to see what God will do with the church and the Jewish nation. You know, as the Jews and Gentiles, one, one, one, one Messiah. The man Christ Jesus. Uh my dear brother, can I tell you from the bottom of my heart you have made my weak With your call, everything about it, culminating with your words about praying for the Jewish people. And we've been getting some calls from the West Indies.

And I didn't really know why, but this explains it.

So Thank you. We're out of time, but thank you, sir. And if you could just stay on, tell Howard again. how folks listen in the West Indies to the broadcast. He'll be with you in a moment.

And maybe one day we'll get down to the West Indies a lot closer to Australia and we'll do a radio rally. But thank you to your brother. It's fire we want. Oh, fire we want. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. To all the people who are in the middle of the world The national anthem of the British people.

Brexit, the big news in this last week, Britain leaving the European Union. This is Michael Brown. Welcome back to the line of fire.

So this news broke when I was in Australia. And on the line of fire, I address issues that I have expertise in, that I've focused on. Otherwise, we open things up for discussion. We bring in special guests to discuss things. Because I was in Australia and we had previously scheduled special guests and I couldn't take your calls on the broadcast when I did broadcast.

I thought, I've got to bring someone on that can address this intelligently. Thrilled to bring to the broadcast for the first time, David French. David is a staff writer at National Review. He's an attorney, for years was a senior leader in the Alliance Defending Freedom. He's a veteran of Operation Iraqi Freedom, author, a co-author of several books, including most recently the No.

One New York Times best-selling Rise of ISIS. And you may have heard his name in recent weeks because. He was put forward as a potential presidential candidate as an alternative to Donald Trump. And that brought a lot of attention to David French and his family. And after reflecting on it, he felt it was not the thing for him to do.

But, David, I would have voted for you just to let you know that this is David French. Welcome to the line of fire for the first time.

Well, thanks so much for having me, and I and I appreciate your vote of confidence. Yes. So you would have had one vote anyway. In all seriousness though, and I would have voted actually for you, but Uh I read a ton of stuff online constantly just because of my own writing and my own interest in the radio show. But as I've been reading you regularly on National Review, you've become my favorite online column list.

So many things you're addressing. I also address, especially with the moral and cultural issues, and I love the way you address them, the clarity with which you address them, and the consistency with which you do.

So, really, thank you for the hard work. I know it goes into doing this, as I write three to five columns a week as well.

So, thank you for the efforts to do this.

Well, thanks very much. It's a privilege to write for National Review. And unfortunately, It's kind of a sad time to be writing. I mean, our nation faces an extraordinary political crisis, and we're. going through an extraordinary moral crisis as well.

Yes, we absolutely are. Not without hope, but with urgency for sure. Hey, before we get your perspective on the European Union and on Britain's exit, just a few things that I know are themes you touch on all the time. Number one, are you still never Trump? And if so, why?

Yes, I am never Trump. And how much time do we have for the reason? No, let me just put it this way. I think essentially what's happened is that The presumptive nominees of both major parties are, we've ended up nominating essentially a Democrat. as the GOP nominee and a corrupt and a corrupt and dishonest Democrat at that.

I mean, he one of the things that I think is most painful about the Trump phenomenon is it's not just that he's completely ignorant of foreign affairs, economic affairs. Um it's it's not just that he's Flipped all over the place on all of his positions. I mean, he score one thing one day against it the next. It's not that he. doesn't understand the value of our foreign alliances and And doesn't have the slightest understanding of the real and true threats of jihad and what's required to confront it.

It's also that he's just so fundamentally dishonest all the time. And I believe that the act of advocating for him And for a person of that low character is going to have a negative effect, particularly on the Christian community. they're going to be finding themselves consistently in the position of defending the indefensible. For example, saying, yes, I know that what he's saying is racist and fomenting an enormous amount of racial division in this country. But vote for him anyway.

Yes, I know that he um has been treats women horribly, mocks the disabled. uh but vote for him anyway. I think that, that has a terrible effect. on people. that there are those who are going to go into a voting booth.

And they're going to look at the choice between Hillary and Trump and Maybe a Gary Johnson and just hold their nose and vote for Trump. I get that, I understand it. But what I don't understand is the notion in the act of using whatever God given t gifts and talents we have. To advocate for that man, to advocate for him becoming leader of the free world. I can't get there in any way, shape, or form.

And in one of your articles, you reflected on the role of the church, and you explained, my words, my paraphrase, it was not primarily to form a coalition behind a particular candidate, but rather to be the church in society.

So even if a Hillary came in and appointed the worst Supreme Court justices, that doesn't stop us from doing what we're supposed to do, nor does it obligate us to back another candidate if we have issues in conscience with that. Yes, the moral witness of the church shouldn't be sacrificed for the chance that the chance that Trump might appoint one or two better Supreme Court justices. The moral witness of the church is far more important than that. And I must say that I'm a little bit mystified. by this fixation on one or two justices of the Supreme Court.

The court is already pretty terrible as we've seen just in this past week. Yes. But the notion that you can fixate on the chance, because we don't actually know what Trump will do. The only thing that we know Trump will do is he will do what he believes is best in his own self-interest. That's the only thing that we know he'll do.

So we don't know exactly what that Supreme Court will look like, but we do know he doesn't know anything. And in fact, has incredibly destructive ideas in a wide variety of other arenas. that are extraordinarily important. I mean, in the foreign policy arena alone, his willingness, his seemingly willingness to discard and toss aside alliances. that have kept the peace larger peace in the world for more than seventy years, could be one of the most destructive acts of any American President in the history of the country.

And yet we just sort of uh dismiss that as if it's barely relevant because maybe He might Select one or two decent Supreme Court justices, or the fact that he is so ignorant about the economy and so aggressively. silly about it. That he could Wreck, absolutely wreck, our national economies, sending struggling middle class. families and poor families. into worse economic conditions.

But that's okay because maybe he might appoint one or two Supreme Court justices. When you look on balance, it doesn't make any sense at all. Yeah, uh who appointed Justice Kennedy? Reagan. Right, so if we think that he's the swing vote on the horrific redefinition of marriage decision and that now he's swung for the first time on on the abortion side with this ridiculous ruling uh a few days back as well, That raises questions.

By the way, my Facebook page, we're approaching 400,000 fans, but you can't easily do a survey there that's immediately tallied.

So I do them mainly on Twitter.

So it's only a smaller sampling. We've got like 21,500 Twitter followers. But I posted yesterday. My views on voting for Trump are, and I gave four choices, still for Trump, still never Trump, from against to for and from against to maybe.

So there are 21% still for Trump. There were 9% who've gone from against to four. There are 20% who've gone from against to maybe, but there are 50% say still never Trump. Obviously, it doesn't hold well. Again, it's just my little Cross-section here, but that doesn't bode well for him in terms of the coming election.

But again, we continue to pray for God's best and recognize the role of the church remains the same. All right, one last question for you, and then we'll switch over to Brexit. We've got about a minute and a half for this one. I still use the term radical Islam for the standard reasons, but you recently wrote why you don't use that term anymore. What's that?

Yeah, I I tend to use the term jihadist because it is actually describing what the theology is, the theology of this holy war. And also I don't I sometimes am uncomfortable with the term radical Islam because it would imply that their beliefs are necessarily radical within the Muslim world. in in entire nations and entire regions. The jihadist worldview isn't radical at all. It's quite mainstream.

And so we're often when we talk about radical Islam, I think Inadvertently, perhaps, minimizing the or diminishing the actual level of the threat. We have a threat from jihadists. Those jihadists are quite mainstream in many Muslim communities around the world, and they're viciously deadly as jihadists have always been throughout history.

So I tend to use that term. because I think it's more accurate and I because I think that Jihadist Islam is more mainstream than people realize and more mainstream than people hope. Got it. All clear. All right, friends.

We come back. I'll speak with attorney David French about the significance of Britain's leaving the European Union, implications for America as well. You can read his writings on a regular basis, as I do, at nationalreview.com, or you can get his best-selling book on the rise of ISIS at any of your bookstores or online book dealers. We'll be right back. Shake the nation.

Change the world. Change the world. Roll God of burning, cleansing flame, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. It was devised to make sure that the great mass of the people could not control government. ever again. Janet Daly speaking about uh Brexit speaking about the vote and speaking about The larger implications of this.

Michael Brown just got back from Australia last night. Delighted to be with you today, speaking with attorney and author David French. David, I had just not followed the Brexit situation that closely, and I just thought. Vote was going to turn out the way it did for some reason, even though polls were expecting the opposite. First, Why do you think the vote went the way it did?

And secondly, why is this having such worldwide implications? Or maybe the media is blowing it up, but what's going on?

Well, at first, you can't look at this boat and you just and think of it in terms of short term trends. The reality is that Great Britain has always had an uneasy relationship with the European continent. And the precise role of Great Britain in that continent has been fought over sometimes literally. for centuries. And so Britain was hardly all in on the EU to begin with.

It kept the pound, for example, and didn't adopt the Euro. And so this boat is a product both of short-term trends, but also of this long-term uneasiness. And so essentially what the British people did is they they said that they wanted in the in the exit pollsters showed that this was the case, both on the more liberal and the more conservative voters who voted to leave. that they wanted decisions been implicated but the UK Be made by the voters of the UK. They didn't want to delegate their sovereignty to this.

Multinational organization. In other words, they essentially reclaimed independence. granting themselves the same power to govern themselves that Americans have it. and take for granted. That's what they did.

It shouldn't be super all that surprising that the people of Britain would choose this. But I think one of the reasons why there has been such an unbelievable hysterical reaction is that this cuts against this notion, this progressive notion of history. That says That history has a side. And it has its own momentum. And that momentum is moving away from nation states.

It's moving away from sort of nationalism or patriotism and moving towards. This more globalized governmental system where you have multinational government organizations. Um The direct democracy is uh vanishing. more in favor of rule by international technocratic elite. And so this progressive notion of history is being in the last five years or so is just taking body blow after body blow.

Um and the Brexit Decision is just the latest blow against this notion of history. And if you're a progressive, you've staked an awful lot on this idea that history has a side. And what the Brexit vote does is that it it kind of casts your entire argument into real doubt. Mm.

So what what are the Implications then for America.

Well, yeah, that's an interesting question. I do think there are some common Threads on both sides of the Atlantic where people are getting fed up. with the regulator these regulatory the regulatory superstate Rule by unelected bureaucrats, fed up with the International and domestic elite that, truth be told, isn't all that elite to begin with. But that's going to manifest itself in very different ways depending on each country. um in Brexit, the way it manifested in England is very much in keeping with uh English history, with British history.

and very much in keeping with British unease with the continent more generally, Here in the U. S., of course, we have a different history. We have different challenges, but we do have problems with the regulatory superstate. We do have problems with. A technocratic elite that's done a pretty good job of putting together a system that works well for them.

not as much for everybody else. Um but you know what? As with every time there's a Every time there is a revolution, whether it's a political revolution or arms revolution, It's the responsibility of the revolutionaries to put together something better. than what they overthrew. This is only half the battle in Brexit.

Now it's time for a responsible leadership to extricate England from the EU. and responsible leadership going forward. Unfortunately, here in the U. S., a lot of our sort of revolutionary m uh mindset Both in through the Sanders and Trump campaign. is answering this failing establishment with a with failed c you know, failure candidates.

So Um you you don't it's almost to pick your poison. Do you go with a failed elite or do you go with a failed lead? failure of a candidate.

So so if if we if we just focus A couple more minutes. On America. And obviously, you focused on this to the point that you were put forth as a potential presidential candidate.

So these are issues you've reflected on deeply. Our mutual friend, attorney Joe and Franco, and I have discussed for years now issues having to do with LGBT activism and the implications thereof. But as conservative leaders, as well as lovers of people and individuals, as you're looking ahead and this whole myth of the progressive view of history, Is there a sense of inevitability that there's no way America can turn back from where it's going, or there has to be a major crash first, that that's what, quote, history teaches us, or this is the way things are progressing? Or do you say, okay, it's a dire situation, but absolutely change can come?

Well, you know, the only thing that's inevitable in history is Christ's ultimate victory. Right. You know, any given trend, any given cultural or historical trend until Christ's victory, ultimate victory, is. Uh is temporary, is transient, it's not inevitable. You know, our nation has gone through multiple waves where it's drifted away from God.

Uh, come back to the Lord. I mean, you know, you don't call something a great awakening unless people were slumbering before the awakening, right? Yep. So. To describe any sort of historical trend as inevitable, irresistible is fundamentally wrong.

And in fact, if you dig down into the numbers, you will see that America is becoming more secular, yes, but it's also becoming more religious.

So the secular population is growing and the evangelical population is growing. And those people who are more nominally more nominal believers are tending to fall by the wayside.

So what that means, the actual trend is not necessarily as much towards secularization, although that's certainly happening in some parts of the country. but towards more polarization.

So I think we will see polarization and division before we will see ultimate triumph, say, of the secular progressive point of view. Right. And by the way, I don't know if you've read Rodney Stark's book, The Triumph of Faith, but he really does dispel the myth of just the complete secularism of society or even in Europe. And what he indicates is the old Chesterton adage that when people don't believe in God, it's not they believe in nothing, that they believe in anything.

So, you know, you'll have like a higher percentage of atheists who believe in UFOs or things like that.

So the void gets filled one way or another. But David, thanks for being there on the front lines. Keep up the good work. I don't think Jonah Goldberg knows me personally, but tell him I said hi. All right.

I will. I will. Thanks so much, sir. Thanks for having me. All right.

Shake the next time. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Revenue holds our God and Christ on earth and so.

So while I was in Australia, you hear the sounds of the English national anthem, the big news with Britain pulling out of the European Union, the world shock in the aftermath of that shock among American politicians and media leaders and all kinds of implications. It reminded me, it reminded me that I had heard teaching over the years that based on the book of Revelation and this 10-headed kingdom, that that was the European Union and all the prophetic pieces were falling in place. I've always told people: if you're going to keep a prophetic calendar, do it in pencil because a lot of the corresponding, okay, this corresponds to this, this corresponds to that. A lot of it can get iffy. There's some things very clear, and there's some things not so clear.

We ought to major on the majors. This is Michael Brown back from Australia. I got home last night. And flight was delayed just a little bit landing. coming in to my home city because of some thunderstorms at the last minute.

But otherwise, I got home about thirty hours after leaving Melbourne, Australia. And I just want to say this. Nancy and I are putting the final touches On our book, Breaking the Stronghold of Food. I wrote it with her, meaning with her comments and insights, along with my story. And while in Australia, a bunch of people want to talk to me because we're eating together and they're watching the way eating salads and different things, these healthy soups.

And they were talking to me about it and the benefits. And of course, people think weight loss, weight loss as the biggest thing. Of course, that is a big thing, especially when you weigh your proper weight, your normal weight, but you should weigh for a certain height, then so many health risks just go away or greatly diminish. But it's not just that. There are all these other benefits.

So I'm coming back from Australia and I got, I don't know, four and a half five hours' sleep, And then Finished packing and left at 5:30 in the morning Melbourne time. It was about an hour and a quarter drive to the airport and then at the airport, then less than an hour and a half flight to Sydney, then a couple hours in Sydney, and then from Sydney to LA, about a 14-something hour flight. Then I had almost three hours there, and then What ended up because delay is five and a half hour flight back from LA to North Carolina. And when I got off the plane, now we did use miles. I was upgraded to business class overseas, so that makes a big difference.

You could actually put your seat all the way back and lay down. But I didn't sleep much. I did a good amount of writing. I watched some. You've got a selection of things you can watch from.

I watched some stuff. Whenever I was tired, I did sleep. But when I got in, when I landed, so this is after now. Almost 20 hours since I've left the first place and getting off the plane here. And your body clock's completely off.

It's, you know, time's totally off. I grabbed my luggage. I was happening to be the first one getting off the plane just where I was sitting. I grabbed my computer bag, which is pretty heavy, and then a bag where I had some healthy food I was traveling with. Instead of taking the escalator, bounded up the steps, you know, every other step, just bounded up the steps, walked as fast as I could to get to passport control just to get my legs moving and to get a little exercise.

And then on the way down to baggage claim, grabbed onto the escalator on either side and just propped myself up, you know, with my feet in the air so that I could just hold myself up, you know, using tricep muscles down the escalator for a little exercise. Got my luggage, put it on a cart, and jogged. I didn't want to sprint, jogged over to where I had to recheck the baggage for the flight, and I just thought, man, it pays. It pays eating healthy. It really pays.

Of course the workouts help with Hold myself up on the escalator, but it really pays. It pays dividends, and we can't wait for this book to come out. It's due out early next year, but you'll be able to get it through our broadcast in time for Christmas. Anyway, just want to give you that good report. I'm thrilled to be back.

Hey, this is Michael Brown. I want to invite you to join me for our second ever trip to Israel, February 25th through March 6th, 2017. This is a great opportunity I get to interact with you, our radio listening audience, and our ministry partners as we experience the land of Israel together and it will be a life-changer. We've got a great price on the trip. And if you're one of our monthly supporters, our torch bearers, you're eligible to receive a special discount for this once-in-a-lifetime experience.

Space is limited, and we're accepting applications on a first-come, first-served basis. For more information on the trip to secure your spot, go to askdrbrown.org, click on the Israel banner, or call our office at 704-782-3760. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to the line of fire. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you. 866-34Truth.

Tell you what I'm going to do. Because I was unable to take live calls, we had intranet speed connection issues while in Australia.

So I did broadcast from Australia, but I couldn't take your calls and use our normal live format. Because of that, the phone lines are now open for anything. Under the sun that you want to talk to me about. Especially if I have some expertise in it. But if you want to talk to me about grass growth trends in northern Dakota of North Dakota, that's just fine.

I won't have anything to say about it. But Whatever you want to ask me, question you want to raise, anything you want to challenge me on in terms of any area of expertise I have, by all means give me a call, 866-348-7884 is the number to use.

Okay. I'm probably going to write a whole article about this, but What about what about The question of evangelicals and Donald Trump. If I had been in the States last week, I would have gone to the meeting with Donald Trump and evangelical leaders just to be there, just to observe. But what happened was basically exactly what I would have expected would have happened. Exactly what I would have expected.

Which is That the evangelicals that were there would have been impressed with Donald Trump's humility. and his openness. They would have liked his answers. and they would have wished for more. That would have been my assumption, and that's pretty much what I've heard from Virtually everyone that was there, that's what I have read in terms of their assessments.

Now, I'm not saying that's a negative. I think it's positive that he reached out to evangelicals. He's hearing the gospel over and over from different people. That's positive. I know some.

James Robinson, regular guest here on the line of fire as we collaborate on the stream, stream.org. He spent. over an hour and a half alone with Donald Trump and and his son.

So uh I knew that that happened. In fact, he texted me the day he was leaving just asking for prayer. And I know James well enough to know he's going to speak the truth. in an uncompromising way, and he's going to do it in love. And I could only mention it afterwards because there is he's spoken about it more openly.

I know others who privately, not in an announced way, have brought the gospel of Donald Trump one-on-one and other small groups that have met with him. And certainly, he wants to say things that evangelicals want to hear. And I believe he thinks of himself as a Christian. And I believe that He wants to defend Christianity as he understands it.

Now, the fact that he keeps bringing up, and even brought up to the evangelicals there, you know, he's going to bring Christ back in Christmas. I to me that's about if I had a list of a thousand priorities, that's way down the list, except for what it symbolizes. except for what it symbolizes, and the larger culture. But that is absolutely not a a battle for for me to fight. Again, except for what it symbolizes in the larger culture.

But. And I have no problem with people saying they were never Trump, now there may be Trump. Are they going to vote for him? I had a guest on the last half hour, David French, who remains a Never Trump. Um A never Trump man, and he gave an articulate number of reasons for it.

But I fully understand why other of my friends plan to vote for Trump and why some have gone from never to maybe. I understand that I respect that. And now there are reports from James Dobson that he knows a businessman who led Donald Trump to the Lord, so he's a brand new Christian. I hope that's true. I absolutely hope that's true.

And I hope that prophecies saying that he's going to be the next president, that God's going to use him in a very positive way, that those are true. As I've said many times, I absolutely. hope that I'm wrong in my concerns. And I am not discouraging you from voting for Trump. Nor am I even telling you what I plan to do right now.

Someone asked me who I am voting for, I said, ask me late October. Then we'll see what it's boiled down to with the candidates we have and where things are at and how the candidates are speaking and behaving. Again, barring a miraculous conversion and transformation of Hillary Clinton, I could not possibly vote for her. That I'm sure of. But I Uh I get concerned when I see people Maybe we're not used to being in these settings.

Maybe we're not used to, when I say we evangelical leaders, having access to a candidate or something like that. How easily we can be kind of oohing and aying and taken in without realizing, oh, look, Hillary Clinton could have been there and could have said things that would have excited a lot of the evangelicals. Obviously, she would have had to radically change her abortion policies and other things, but in other words, politicians know how to say things, or leaders. With you be a great reality TV star, you know how to say things. Or if you're great at closing a deal, you know how to say things.

It's not to say Donald Trump didn't mean what he said. I hope he did. I hope he did. Tom DeLay was negative on the meeting, and he said that: look, nobody asked him a question. Look, out of all the questions submitted, there were just a handful that were answered, and nothing was really pressed.

Whereas it would have been great. Come on, press him. That's what we're there for. Press him. Press him.

But, but, When Tom DeLay said, you could have asked him, okay, where does he get his values from? That would have been helpful. Right? Or Uh have you read the Constitution? If so, what are your thoughts on it?

Those have been great questions. Those were unasked, so I don't know that we know anything more. About Donald Trump. or about where he's going. About what his positions are.

I don't think we know anything more now than we did before. Except, he wants to get the evangelical vote, and I believe he genuinely wants to be a champion of the evangelicals. But If that Conflict it with self-interest he had, or conflicted with his larger plans to be elected, or if that would transfer over to what he would actually do once elected, only God knows. 866-34TRUTH to the phones. We start in Richmond, Virginia.

Brian, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Doctor Brown. Welcome back, buddy. Thanks, man. It's great to be back.

And what a blessing, that little 14-year-old girl, man. How about that, right? Praise God. Praise God. Yeah, for those who weren't listening in the first hour, the highlight of my trip after speaking 21 times in 10 days was a 14-year-old girl coming up to me in tears, telling me what a role model I've been in her life, and then crying on my shoulder.

Just, yeah, beyond words to hear wonderful things like that. But, yes, sir, what's on your mind? Yeah, what a blessing, what a blessing. Um, I don't know, I'll just um um I'm up to hear what what's just going on in this country and the lives and the things that we're We're being told And I'm just begging America to pray for God to just to help us in this country. Ben guys, the reports came out today.

I don't know if you got a chance to read them, where they said that both Hillary and the President knew what was going on, that those people were killed, never sent anybody in to help those people out. And you know what? I just it just it really, really, really upsets me that we're being lied to on such a mass Mass volume. True. Yeah.

The same to the government. Yeah, I'll tell you, Brian, it can be frustrating. And look, just the report that was issued that the thing was sparked by this anti-Muhammad movie, and the guy even gets arrested here in the States. This is America. What's he getting arrested for?

I mean, how horrific is that? Happens right in front of our eyes. But I mean, that's not even true. It's not even true. We knew it wasn't true right from the beginning.

There was all kinds of evidence that it wasn't true, and that it was a talking point that was circulated intentionally. But here's where I think things are at, Brian. There is enough that's out there. There is enough information that's out there online. Of course, there's crazy stuff being said as well.

But there's enough out there that people Are going to believe what they want to believe. Meaning. There's enough information about Benghazi, about our neglect there, and how that led to the death of our people, and from what seems clear to me, a complete mishandling of it by then Secretary of State Clinton. And the damning report comes out. Will it affect the election?

I don't think so. Because people are going to believe what they believe. The Democratic response is: what a waste of money. And this vindicates President Obama and Hillary Clinton, and they did nothing wrong, and there was nothing that was lied about, et cetera, et cetera.

So it feels like we can present something: facts, truths. truth. Here it is in front of your eyes. And people are gonna believe what they wanna believe. This is not the first time this has happened, that's human nature, but it's scary.

to see it happen on this level. And some of you listening, you're like, what do you mean? Of course, Hillary Clinton is exonerated. Of course, Barack Obama is exonerated. I'd only shake my head on that one.

We'll be right back. Shake the nation. Change the world. Change the world. Give us strict to always do what's right.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us.

Michael Brown, fresh back from Australia. And it's, I think, I'm going to go home, take a little nap. It is Australia time, 5.50 in the morning of Tuesday.

So my body has no idea what time it is here. I just know it's time for the line of fire. Let's go to Greensboro, North Carolina. Aaron, welcome to the line of fire. Oh, man, Doc.

Welcome back to the States, man. Thank you. Giving honor to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Just wanted to say, Doc, as usual, I've called him before. 'Cause you wanted to say uh I appreciate everything you do, man.

play a significant part in my walk, man, and I listen to you and I take what you say very seriously. Uh Pretty much, you've touched everything that I wanted to ask today. I mean, I just wanted to call him and ask you, as a young man in Christ and twenty-four years old. I'm single, I got a kid, man, and you wrote a series of books, and I listened to a lot of your stuff on YouTube. Um Well, which which one of your books would you suggest I get?

'Cause I'm trying to save up some extra money, man, and and get one of them. And 'cause I really want to read one of your books, so I'm just trying to figure out as a twenty four year old young man in Christ, which one would you suggest for this day and age? Yeah. Um, so uh do you do a lot of reading? Yes, sir.

Okay, well tell you what. You you save up your money for some other things. Take care of your kid there. I want to send you two of my books as a gift, okay? I want to send you Go and Sin No More.

It's important. It's a call to holiness. Yeah, I see you got that phone ringing in the back there. All right, so Howard's going to come on in a moment, and I'm going to send you two books as a gift. One, Go and Sin No More: A Call to Holiness.

That'll help you in very obvious ways, relevant for all ages, but especially for a young man to understand God's holiness, His grace, the ugliness and danger of sin, and how to lead. A victorious and obedient life in him.

So that's go and sin no more. And then I want to send you revolution. That will help. Ignite a spark in your life to be a Jesus revolutionary, to understand how the world does revolution, but then to understand how Jesus does it, putting down the sword, taking up the cross.

So, my gift to you, sir. I don't remember the last time I said I want to send somebody two books as a gift, but just felt. To do it.

So, I was going to get your info there. My gift to you: revolution and go and sin no more. All right, we go to Fort Worth, Texas. Izzy, welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Doctor Brown.

Hello. Hi. Thanks for the invite to call in and ask about anything under the sun.

So anyhow, I had a question about the twelve tribes of Israel. Um Years ago I had a family member tell me that they had read something that, you know, pretty much All the tribes of Israel have gone throughout the world, and that essentially everybody is somehow Jewish. And I kind of blew it off. And then recently, two more people told me the same thing, and I haven't really done any research on it. Blow it off.

Blow it off, blow it, blow it, blow it, big time, way, way, way, way off. Complete, utter, sheer nonsense, rubbish. Aside from the fact. that statistically, demographically, it's complete rubbish. in that You're talking about the exiling of hundreds of thousands, or say several million people that get scattered, right?

In no way. Would that people then, over the course of time, successfully intermarry with people around the rest of the world so that everybody has some kind of Israelite blood? Complete nonsense. There is a view in what some call the two-house theory that. All those who are followers of Jesus.

Are ultimately able to trace their ancestry back to one of the twelve tribes. It's complete nonsense. And when Jacob James writes his letter to the twelve tribes scattered abroad, and when Paul in Acts speaks of the twelve tribes, this remained a definable concept even in The The New Testament era when the ten tribes as a specific entity. Have been largely lost to history. It is true that there are pockets of groups that can successfully trace themselves back on some level to the 12 tribes of Israel, like the Lemba people in Zimbabwe.

As I understand it, DNA tests. If I'm recalling this correctly, give them some ancestral heritage, not just from Africa, but going back to the Middle East. Perhaps the same has happened in India and some other places where things can be traced back. We know that with the Inquisitions and Crusades, that in countries like Spain and Portugal, that there were Jews who outwardly converted to Christianity, but secretly maintained Jewish identity over a period of time. And there are people in Latin America today or in Spain or Portugal who say, you know, I've got Jewish roots and there's some truth to it.

However, this idea that the twelve tribes are now intermingled among the nations is absolute, complete nonsense. And there are other people groups that were exiled and that no longer exist as a people, and they're gone. They're gone, and we don't think, well, the whole world now has intermixed with the Philistines of old or something. No, that's it's nonsense. It is historically untrue.

It is demographic nonsense as well.

So don't even think twice about it. But thank you. Is he for the call? You called the right day to ask the question. Let's see.

Let's go to Bobby in High Point, North Carolina. Hi, Michael. Um I was listening to that mister French. I think he's full of stuff. I told your young man that answered the phone, I celebrated my eighty third birthday the twenty sixth of May.

And I haven't remained stupid living this long. You learn a whole lot. just working with the public, which I did at AT ⁇ T for almost thirty two years. and works with people all over this world. But anyway, uh, I was watching Gary Byrne last night.

He's written a Crisis of Character. He was a Secret Service man for Hillary Clinton. Yep. Oh, I think that woman's straight out of hell. I think she would do more damage to America.

And we're in terrible shape. Like I said, I've lived a long time. I have never seen our nation in such terrible shape or the whole world as far as that goes, but we've had ungodly leaders. And I really prayed for Donald Trump. I don't know how he stands to the Lord.

I don't know how you stand. I know what people say, but a lot of people, Obama says he's a Christian. I thought, God says you know my Children buy their fruit. And when you see ungodly mess in the life and people that laugh one side and down the other and doesn't seem to bother them, you know good and well they don't belong to the Lord. But anyway, I'm I was disturbed with this Mr.

French. When I thought, was it totally about Donald Trump? Or, you know, because if you don't vote, your vote for Hillary Clinton is what's going to happen. And I think this country can implode, and I think the direction that it's headed, it will. Yeah, well, Bobby, tell you what, I just got to jump in only because I'm coming to the end of the program.

But first, Thank you for being so articulate. passionate, clear-headed and to the point. at eighty years old, what an example to the rest of us. Number one. Number two, regarding your concerns for Hillary Clinton, I share them.

Number three. David French shares them.

However, David French feels there are better things that we can do. Than vote for Donald Trump. And he gave his reasons, his strong reasons, for believing that Donald Trump could be a disastrous candidate as well. As I said, I'm not telling people not to vote for him. Nor have I come to the conclusion for sure of what I'm doing in the fall.

But thank you. Let's talk more. Please call another day. Friends, my bottom line today, yeah, America's shaking, even falling apart, but the kingdom of God stands firm and strong. Uh