Focus on Abortion

When God says choose life, that means beginning in the womb. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth.

That's 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. As the presidential elections heat up, We must go back, not just looking at the candidates, but looking at the party platforms. To see what these candidates represent, either wholeheartedly or at least on paper.

And when we look at the difference in the party platforms on abortion, those differences are stark.

So, I want to talk about life today, beginning in the womb. This is Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us today on the line of fire. If you have a comment, question, concern regarding pro-life issues regarding abortion, give me a call at 866-34TRUTH. That's 866-348-788.

Eight four. Before we get into that, looking at the party platforms. And then a probing a little bit of a comment by Hillary Clinton, a very relevant comment from a few months back. The The plot continues to thicken.

Now reading about Republican leadership, very unhappy with candidate Trump for a few reasons. His reluctance to endorse John McCain and Paul Ryan, and then some of the Well, some of his tactics in terms of responding to the father of the Muslim soldier who was killed, Khazir Khan, who spoke at the Democratic National Convention, and others saying it's just not presidential to do that. Just a few quick thoughts. This is basically a matter of this is who Donald Trump is. This is who Donald Trump has been.

through his campaign, in his mind, successful enough to beat 16 other candidates, some of them highly, highly qualified.

So here's what we're looking at. We're looking at Donald Trump being Donald Trump, for better or for worse. I don't look at Donald Trump as a die-hard Republican. At worst. At worst.

Donald Trump's campaign is about Donald Trump. That's at worst. That would be in the most critical negative view. At best, It's about making America great again, in his words, in the words of the campaign. I'm not looking at Donald Trump as being a super committed Republican any more than I was looking at Bernie Sanders being a super committed Democrat.

In fact, after endorsing Hillary Clinton, which I didn't even know that he would do, but after doing that, he's now said, hey, I'm going back to being an independent.

So with Donald Trump, he's been a Democrat. He's been a Republican. I don't look at him, though, as a die-hard Republican, or it's all for the party, or anything like that in any way. There are some, that's how they are. Hillary Clinton is a Democrat, right?

That's who she's been.

So Donald Trump saying he's not going to, or he's been reluctant to endorse Paul Ryan or John McCain, there's no surprise there. Of course, Paul Ryan's campaign said we haven't asked for Donald Trump's endorsement. But be that as it may, is anyone surprised that Donald Trump's not saying all for the party? These end up being personal issues for him. These end up being things that, if he obviously made his unfortunate comments about John McCain earlier on as a war hero, but spoke of him.

In less than flattering terms, they said, I prefer those who aren't caught. Yeah, he's a war hero, but I prefer those who weren't caught. And then John McCain being very critical of Donald Trump on a number of occasions, including very recently.

Well, why would Donald Trump endorse John McCain? And with the friction between him and Paul Ryan and Paul Ryan's reluctance to endorse Donald Trump, why would we think Donald Trump would just turn around and endorse him?

So, all that to say, there is a lot of discussion going on. And on the Republican side, it's one of those critical times because with all of the problems on the Hillary Clinton side, Donald Trump should be way ahead. Theoretically, could be, and yet the race is very, very close and difficult for either candidate to just have an easy path forward. But no surprise. No surprise.

Now does Hillary Clinton wholeheartedly support the Democratic abortion platform? Yes. Does Donald Trump wholeheartedly support the Republican? I would say not wholeheartedly, but largely. We'll be right back.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thank you for joining us on the line of fire, 866-34-TRUTH.

This is Michael Brown. Our focus today on the subject of life. beginning in the womb. In the broadcast yesterday, somewhere in the second hour, I believe it was, I interacted with an article by Rachel Held Evans. She's Christian leader leaning left more and more over the years, and I have some very, very deep, serious differences with a number of her positions that she has espoused in recent years.

She wrote an article about voting, quote, pro-choice and how she's been conflicted, how she's voted. She's voted Republican, she's voted Democrat, and she sees good sides and bad sides in each party. And I respect the points that she was making. that it's not just a matter of esteeming the importance of life in the womb. but life outside of the womb.

And in her mind, to overgeneralize, while the Republicans Better emphasize the importance of life in the womb, the Democrats better emphasize the importance of life outside the womb.

Now, you may not even agree with those points, but that's. In an overgeneralized way, what she was saying.

However, however. Here is my very, very simple position. I believe that Republicans, by and large, would embrace Any type of legislation, policy that would help. enhance, secure, benefit the life of the child outside the womb. In other words, if there were policies, if there were laws that could be enacted, if there were things that could be put in place that would help a child do better once born.

that Republicans would be in favor of those policies should they really be viable policies, whereas Democrats would not be in favor of pro-life policies beginning in the womb. In other words, if you're going to have movement, you're going to have movement on the side of those who say life begins at conception, rather than those who basically say life begins when the child is outside the womb.

Now, Now Uh A few other thoughts on this, and then I'll get to some of your calls. Hillary Clinton made a comment. This goes back a few months back in April now. And it's got a lot of play, and she got criticized from both sides. quite understandably.

It was Meet the Press Sunday, April 3rd, 2016.

So Joey, grab clip number one, and I want you to hear this important comment made by Hillary Clinton. You said, quote, the unborn person doesn't have constitutional rights.

So, my question is: at what point does someone have constitutional rights? And are you saying that a child on its due date, just hours before delivery, still has no constitutional rights? Under our law, that is the case, Paula. I support Roe v. Wade because I think it will But pardon me.

An important statement about the importance of a woman making this most difficult decision with consultation by whom she chooses, her doctor, her faith, her family. And under the law and under certainly that decision, that is the way we structure it.

Now, she's responding to a question from Paula Farris, and Paula Farris is pressing her on a quote of hers: that the unborn person. doesn't have constitutional rights.

So we've mentioned this on the air before, but from the pro-life side, she got blasted for saying that the unborn person, calling the baby in the womb a person. And yet, saying that person doesn't have constitutional rights. Boy, that's maximum other times in our history when we said certain persons, because of their color, Not have The first thing that we have done is that the mainstream is the same as the mainstream. Then, of course, she got blasted from the Pro-abortion side because she referred to the baby in the womb as a person. You must not do that.

You must not refer to the baby in the womb as a person. You must dehumanize the fetus. It's just a tumor, it's just a mass of cells. I was on the air Oh, a couple of months ago on someone else's radio show, I do lots of interviews on other shows. And This particular host Made reference to a call that he had received.

Now he had been on the air even longer than I've been on the air. I've been on the air eight years. He'd been on the air many years before that. And yet he never got a call like this either. The caller was a gentleman who was who made reference to his child.

Was not designated in the child as male or female until the child could figure out for itself if it was male or female.

So forget biology, forget chromosomes. Whatever the child over a period of time perceives itself to be, that's what he'll say that child is.

Okay, that That is not as shocking as what I'm about to tell you. the man repeatedly made reference to the child as quote a carbon unit. A carbon unit.

Well, yes, that would be logical. If in fact the baby in the womb is not a baby. Is just a mass of cells, is just tissue, is just a tumor. as as one Feminist referred to her baby many years ago. She had aborted the baby while in France, and just the tumor was gone.

If that's the fact, that's the reality, then that baby outside the womb is still just a a carbon unit. It is just a natural being with no real uniqueness and life to it, no soul to it. That's the logical conclusion.

So the pro-abortion side must dehumanize the baby in the womb. to maintain the position. Once you recognize the personhood and the humanity of that baby in the womb, then the pro-abortion side takes a massive, massive hit. And that's why somewhere around 75%. uh women who see an ultrasound of their baby.

They see an ultrasound of the baby. Uh do not end up having an abortion. Why? Because suddenly they realize that's not just a clump of cells. That's even just use the word fetus can dehumanize the baby, even though it's not technically dehumanizing.

That's what can easily happen. Once you realize what, that's That little one moving in there. You can see a shit. There's a hand or whatever. You can see certain things and certain indications.

Whoa. Wait a second. Hang on, that's a little child in there.

Now, let's just look for a moment at the party platforms here. All right. When I'm looking at the Planned Parenthood website, Oh, they They're all over this. How do the GOP and Democratic Party platforms comparing women's health hint terribly? Ah, so when Planned Parenthood is telling you that the Republican platform is terrible, that's telling you they've got a good platform here when it comes to life.

Planned Parenthood, while the Republican platform says we oppose the use of public funds to fund organizations like Planned Parenthood, the Democratic Party platform says we will continue to stand up to Republican efforts to defund Planned Parenthood in health centers which provide critical health services to millions of people. primarily abortion, my words there. While the Republican platform says we salute the many states, With laws requiring informed consent, parental consent, waiting periods, and clinic regulation. We call for codification of the Hyde Amendment and its application across the government, including Obamacare. We call for a permanent ban on federal funding and subsidies for abortion and healthcare plans that include abortion coverage.

The Democratic platform says we will continue to oppose and seek to overturn federal and state laws and policies that impede women's access to abortion, including by repealing the Hyde Amendment.

Now, here's the comparison, the way the FRC, the Family Research Council, would post it. And of course, I would be very much in harmony with the way that they would explain things. They show the difference on the redefinition of marriage, on abortion, taxpayer funding, and religious freedom, on Planned Parenthood, and the selling of baby parts.

So, on that last one, the Democrats support Planned Parenthood by name. Republicans for the first time. Call for the defunding of Planned Parenthood for committing abortions, selling baby parts, and deceiving women with faulty consent forms. They call on Congress to enact a ban on any sale of fetal body parts. I'm all in on this platform in terms of these points here.

I'm all in. And I'm all against the Democratic platform, and Hillary Clinton is all for it. As for Donald Trump, he's been saying for some time now that he's strongly pro-life. He is not as strongly pro-life as this platform.

However, He agreed to let the platform be drafted. In other words, he did not try to force his own views, which would not have been quite as strong. For example, he would want exceptions for rape or incest or the health of the mother or something like that to be written in. And that is not part of the platform, the simple philosophy being: if the baby is truly a baby, a human being in the womb. Then you don't abort it for any reason.

Um For the first time in history, the Democrats and their presumptive nominee Hillary Clinton have called for overturning the Hyde and Helms Amendments and called for federal taxpayers to fund abortion on demand at home and even abroad. The Republicans call for the exact opposite on all these points. The Democrats' radical push for abortion coverage makes no exception even for religious organizations or conscious protections for doctors or nurses who object to abortion. If you love life, Then you don't vote. for the Democratic presidential candidate.

That's simple to me. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. In Germany there unfolded an unprecedented internal war in which more and more doctors became executioners. It began with sterilization and abortion and ended in murder. From the documentary Doctors of Death. This is Michael Brown.

Welcome back to the line of fire, 866-34Truth, the number to call. Yeah, when I heard the applause when Hillary Clinton made her statement, I thought, Meet the press, why is there applause? Then I reread my notes and realized that she was appearing on the view and was being asked about comments she had earlier made on Meet the Press, hence the applause. But of course, her comments stand as you heard them.

Someone sent me a note. With uh Comments that, critical comments that have been sent to them when they shared our meme that we posted on Facebook that's been viewed now, I don't know, maybe by 12 million people. shared probably a couple hundred thousand times or close to that. And uh it simply is a picture of a baby saying if if uh Baby is not a person, then why is it double homicide if you kill a pregnant mother? That is the rule in some states.

And this person with a scientific background wrote to an old friend of mine saying that just in the early phases of pregnancy, where most abortions take place, that it's not a baby, it's not a human being, and it's hardly any different than what a celery stalk or some line like that. What's interesting. Is just looking at articles that are readily available online. And Uh articles that state what happens in the womb within hours, within days. It's it is really, really quite striking.

And I found an article from Let's see, October 3rd, 2013 by Ricky Lewis, Ph.D., and was referring to a major study that had been done on September 24th, 2013. The direct-to-consumer genetic testing company 23andMe was granted patent number 8543339 covering the selection of traits in offspring by genotyping eggs and sperm. An analysis of the ethical issues the patent raises is published today in Genetics in Medicine.

So There's a comment here: when life begins, is a pretty basic idea in biology. And this, well, is it?

Some would say yes, some would say obviously no.

So Ricky Lewis says, being a biologist, a textbook author, and a mother, I've thought a great deal about the question of when human life begins.

So here are my selections of times at which a biologist might argue a human organism is alive. And she says, I'll save my preference for the end. And she starts giving certain things. Notice this, within 12 hours, the packets of DNA from male and female, the pronuclei, approach, merge, and the intermingling chromosomes pair in part as the first mitotic division looms. A new human genome forms.

This is within 12 hours. hours. Day five, the new genome takes over as maternal transcripts are depleted. The inner cell mass separates from the hollow balls of cells and takes up residence on the interior surface. It will become the embryo proper, distinguishing itself from the remaining part of the ball fated to become the extra embryonic membranes.

And it goes on with further information there. The point being. The point being That uh Uh And then she goes on week 22, a fetus has a chance of becoming a premature baby if delivered. And in her mind, okay, that's when life really begins. Yeah.

Okay. Hang on though. If packets of DNA, this unique information, are approaching merging and the chromosomes intermingling within 12 hours. You already have, you already have the seed. The full seed of the of human life right there, do you not?

that the unique information And with the beginnings of the formation of the human genome and everything else that entails, this is not just like. Any other being, or like a pig, or a cow, or a plant, or something else. This is a human being. This is a human being. And when you read the scriptures, one thing that comes with overwhelming clarity is that God is a God of life.

Life. In fact, he destroys human beings because human beings are about to destroy the earth. And rather than destroy the earth, God intervenes. 866-34-TRUTH. He destroys those that would destroy human life because he is a God of life.

Let's go to the phones in Chelsea, Massachusetts. Jeff, thanks for calling the line of fire. Thanks, Doctor Brown.

Well, well, you're right on with what you're saying, and let me make a contribution to the program. This is what I see coming if Hillary becomes our President, a third Obama term. Um and and here's the thing. I see this coming. the churches.

Because You see, the Democrats and the New World Orders want to shut down church. Churches, radio shows, and so forth. I believe there'll be a set of guidelines to church Nationally, maybe not in Hillary's presidency, but beyond. It will be: the pastor shall not talk about abortion. shall not talk against the government.

So let's speak against Israel. Bum Shall that be too strong for you? For Israel, and here's a set of guidelines of what you're going to say in the pulpit every week. There'll be monitors monitoring you. Yeah, picture is abortion Is just one spoke in a total wheel.

We are heading towards hardcore red communism because under hardcore redism. Abortion is the order of the day. Because you see the government has got State is God, and the state. can can kill people as it wills if there's too much of a population in that state. I'll uh to China's one child.

One child per family policy. And just to jump in, Jeff, because I've got a break coming up here. Uh obviously some Callers with listeners will say, Yeah, this is the way America is going, and everything's going to be monitored, religious liberty is going to be totally lost. And others will say, Jeff, what are you talking about? Let's just recognize, though, that the democratic platform is not going to allow for exceptions on these matters of conscience for religious reasons, just like The president's health care, Obamacare, as it's called, is going to enforce things on religious communities, Catholic communities, Protestant communities.

And these things have been fought in the courts. And thus far, our side has won on these because these are fundamental violations of our freedoms.

So, regardless of how radical some of the things Jeff's saying may sound to some, let's just recognize that there would be a fundamental conflict between religious freedoms and radical pro-abortion views. And yes, countries like Russia are having to deal with the fact that they don't have enough babies being born. And a lot of it arises out of the culture of death of communism and the massively high numbers of abortion that many, many women have in the former Soviet Union and in Russia. Hey, friends. Yesterday, I read that Rush Limbaugh had signed a new contract to continue broadcasting.

Not sure for how many years to come. He remains number one most listened to on the radio. You know, a big difference between Rush and me, aside from he's got a much more massive audience than I have. You know, a massive difference? He makes millions of dollars.

He makes millions of dollars being on the radio. Hey, that's what he does. We have to raise millions of dollars to be on the radio. Would you stand with us? Would you help us if you believe in listener-supported broadcasting?

Go to the website askdrbrown.org. Click on Donate. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Check out these comments from Pope Francis, who Many liberals Applaud and say, well, he's not as radical as his predecessors, and he's much more open to LGBT issues and things like that. Pope Francis denounces transgender people as, quote, annihilation of man.

That's the way gay websites are reporting it. Listen to what he said at a recent convocation. Excuse me. during a recent private meeting with bishops from Poland. Quote We are living a moment of annihilation of man as image of God.

He said today in schools they are teaching this to children. To children. that everyone can choose their gender. He blamed this on textbooks supplied by, quote, persons and institutions who donate money. The Pope blamed what he called ideological colonizing backed by very influential countries, which he did not identify, certainly America's got to be at the top of that list.

Which one such colonization he said is, I'll say it clearly with its first and last name, is gender. good for the Pope. 866-34TRUTH. We go to Al in Queens, New York. Welcome to the line of fire.

Oh, thank you, doctor Brown. I very much appreciate the program and I want to make a contribution. Yeah.

I just joined in and I heard someone on the program said that The unborn child has no constitutional rights. And if that is so, then I think that is why we should do everything to protect that baby, that unborn baby, because if they have no constitutional rights, Then somebody gotta protect them. and the mother and everybody else, the law and everybody else should join in to protect That baby. And also, I want to commend you because I fully agree with you Uh what do I Good. Vote for Someone who is speaking often, so it's going to go contrary to the Bible.

And I find it very, very difficult for a Christian So say that they want to please God. I will cast a vote for anybody. Who will? use their outfit.

So In a way that displeases God, that goes contrary to the Bible. Especially Uh things like um abortion and so forth.

Okay. I just wanted to add my comment here and I I want to commend you for the stand that you take in, And for your advocacy, I do Wish. that many other pastors would join in. and do the same thing like you, I believe if they would do that, we will get Some of the top But keep on it doing what you're doing and praying for you.

Well, thank you so much, Al. Much appreciate it. Let me say first that. I'm not looking for a perfect candidate, and I'm not even saying that the candidate I would vote for has to be a born-again follower of Jesus. But when I hear a candidate, whichever party they're with, blatantly, overtly, directly Speak contrary to a fundamental position.

For me, the position of life beginning in the womb in scripture is fundamental. To me, the shedding of innocent blood is something that God hates. When I say to me, it's clear in scripture, in particular, that of babies and children.

So when I hear a candidate, Openly, clearly speaking against those viewpoints that are so fundamentally laid out in scripture as principles of life. Or if you ever question it, just look at pictures of aborted babies and ask how God feels about that. I cannot possibly vote for that candidate. And I just tweeted this out earlier. that a pastor who won't address sin lest he alienate his hearers.

It's like a doctor who won't address sickness lest he alienate his patients. That's not what a true shepherd does, and that's not what a true doctor does. Let us speak the truth in love. and take the consequences, whatever they may be. Thank you, sir.

Change the world. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

A few weeks back, I got a phone call, got contacted by a Jewish-believing brother that I had not been in contact with for many years. And he wanted me to know about a movie that he had been involved with. And when he told me, And watched the trailer for the movie. I thought, wow, this really looks fascinating. This could really make an impact.

This could make an impact on secular viewers, not just the church, but secular viewers as well, along with Wake Up the Church as we're focusing on pro-life issues today. I want to speak with. Stuart Migden, there is a new drama, a faith drama called Voiceless. It addresses real hot-button pro-life issues.

So, I want to tell you about it. The film is going to be out in two months. You can watch the trailer, but we're getting word out now early on. Stuart Migden, welcome to the line of fire. Great to have you on, brother.

You know what? It's a blessing for me to be on. Thank you, Michael, for having me. I appreciate it. My joy to do so.

All right, first, how is it that you got involved in the larger issue of pro-life movement, and then how did you get to this particular movie?

Well, you know what? When I came to know the Lord, I instantly was converted into the pro life position. I knew that it was wrong. And actually, before that, I knew, but I wasn't vocal about it. And so I went along and did those things that I could do.

But about four point five years ago, a friend of and I got together, and we were wanting to make an impact for Jesus Christ and the culture in which we live. And we kept coming back to the idea of doing a film. People go to the theater and they emulate the characters they see on the big screen, and they actually become those characters in their life so many times. And we just were stunned at how Hollywood produces these godless movies and even movies that degradate our Lord. And so we just said, you know what?

Let's get out of our comfort zone and let's make a movie that will encourage Christians to engage the culture against their sin. And when we chose the sin, we sort of Sort of knew that people weren't going to run to the theaters on a Friday night to see a movie about abortion, but we made it in such a way where they will be intrigued by it, but we couldn't get away from the most egregious sin of life, of lifetime, and that's the sin of abortion. All right, so in your mind, You felt abortion was wrong before. When you came to faith, it was very clearly written in your heart that God is a God of life, beginning in the womb. In your mind, this is the great sin that the American church must confront.

And if there was anything for which God was going to judge America, it would be the abortion of more than 50 million babies. Why do you think this is not something that gets more attention from our pulpits and among believers in general when very, very universally In conservative evangelical circles, especially white conservative evangelical circles, everyone agrees that abortion is wrong. Why then does it get so little attention? You know, before I address the why, let me tell you a statistic that blows me away. Ninety four percent of the evangelical church in this country does not have a pro-life presence.

94%.

Now you just said it. That statistic does not reflect pastors and even Christians in those churches, but 94% of them do nothing. And that's why 200,000 women every year get an abortion that say that they sit in the pews of those churches every Sunday. single week.

Now 650,000 women say they're Christians that get an abortion every year. But two hundred thousand of them sit in the pews. And so if we were able to overthrow Roe versus Wade tomorrow, we would still have an issue. It's a family issue amongst the church and one I believe that God will judge us on. And there's a scene from our movie where our lead character is talking to his wife.

And he says to her, I think something that will answer your question clearly, he says to her, Julia. God saved us for this world. not from this world. And I believe that Christians are too concerned about that gift of eternity in heaven with God and not as concerned once they've received that gift about doing something about it here on earth. They let the culture around us, that secular culture, impact them when we it shouldn't be that way.

Where to be the salt and the light? Where to be the ones that shine the light of Jesus Christ on the nation in which we live. And so I think pastors and Christians are silent about it because they're not concerned about this world. They think it's just fading away, but Jesus is king here today on earth. We've got to do something for him to bring glory to his name as we live here on earth today.

And Stuart, what year did you come to faith? I came to faith in 1991.

Okay, so 20 years after me, but still the same kind of mentality in the church, which is we're out of here soon. That this world is not our eternal home, that Jesus is coming quickly, we're out of here soon. And on the one hand, this world is not our eternal home, but for every generation of Christians, every generation of followers of Jesus, from the first disciples up to now, All of us have lived and died here, and then all of us have given way to the next generation. In other words, this has been our physical dwelling place just as much as anybody else's for 2,000 years. We have to live, we have to have careers, make money, have families, etc., like everybody else.

And yet, the world is often thinking long-term. If you go back to the 60s and the counterculture revolution, a lot of the radicals then, with their radical feminism and their radical deconstruction of family, and radical gay activism, and radical pro-abortion positions, and on and on, they had a long-term vision. They wanted to change the society. They are now our lawmakers, many of them. They are now professors in our universities.

Many of the believers were thinking, hey, we're out of here any minute. Why even bother? And that mentality still pervades so much of the church. It's crippling. It's paralyzing.

It's unbiblical. Our attitude should be because we are people. Of eternity living here in this earth, everything we do becomes more weighty. because what we do has eternal consequences. And therefore, the short time we have on this earth, 80, 90 years, we need to maximize and then think in a multi-generational way.

What kind of world am I handing over to my kids or grandkids? Whereas if we knew, Stuart, that there were 10 more minutes before Jesus came, we'd both hang up the phone here, you know, get on the street. Call every last loved one that wasn't saved, and then go be with Jesus.

So you're right. We've had a mentality that does not rightly deal with. Life and death issues here in the long term.

So, how did you get a strategy to address this on a practical level? Because you're right. By and large, people are not going to go flocking to the movie theaters over the weekend to watch here's the latest movie against abortion.

So what was the strategy that you came up with? The strategy Simply put, is that we did not vilify the pro choice position Look, there are people that are pro-choice that really believe passionately that they are right. They're passionately wrong, but they believe that they are right.

So instead of vilifying the pro-choice movement, we are encouraging Christians to do something about it. And you know, we were in a secular film festival up for some awards. few months ago, and they screened Voiceless. And we walked in, my partner and I, to about three hundred people that were mostly liberal, artsy kind of folks getting ready to watch this abortion movie. And so we were a little bit nervous because we knew we had to come up afterward and there was going to be a question and answer session.

But, you know, they laughed when they were supposed to and they sighed when they were supposed to, and we heard appropriate audience reaction, which was good. And then when the movie was over, they all stood up and gave us a standing ovation, so we got up front. We got up front and the questions started to come left and right, and they were great questions.

So somebody stood up and looked at my director and he said, what's your next movie going to be about? And my director, flippantly and almost in a humorous way, said, you know what, I think we're going to tackle the subject of homosexuality.

So the place is quiet now, and the guy looks right in his eye and he says, You know what? I want you to know that I'm gay. And I want you to know that I'm pro choice. And I also want you to know that if you make a movie about homosexuality and handle it in the way that you handle the subject matter of abortion. I will go see that movie.

And as a pro choice person, you've got me thinking.

So we did the movie purposely for that reason. That's incredible. That's that's an incredible first the setting there that they would that they would screen it That you get a standing ovation. And you get that response, trust me, as one on the front lines of these issues. I understand the significance of this.

All right, we've got some more time to talk about this. I'm speaking with Stuart Migdon. The film Voiceless will be out October 7th. If folks want to find out about this now, what's the best way to do this? they should go to voiceless themovie dot com, www dot voiceless themovie dot com.

They can watch our leaders video, they can see our trailer, and they can get a whole bunch of more information about the about the movie.

Alright, awesome. VoicelessTheMovie.com. When we come back, we're going to give you an overview of what this movie is and the unique characters that play the lead roles here. Voiceless the movie. Trust me, you get a couple minutes to go to the website, watch this.

You're going to be there October 7th to see this when it comes out. We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. My guest, Stuart Migden, says of the new film Voiceless, which he, together with writer-director Pat Naserato, Put together. Voiceless was made to engage the church. We believe our film artfully presents the issue in a way that pro-life supporters can rally behind without alienating pro-choice viewers before they've had a chance to contemplate our story. To watch the trailer, go to voiceless the movie.com.

The film comes out October 7th. We're getting word out.

Now, Stuart, did I properly pronounce your colleague's name? You know what? At Nicaragua. Nicaragua. I knew there were a couple of choices.

I went for one. All right. He's the writer-producer.

So tell me the storyline here. How do you draw people in?

So Jesse Dean is a shy, reserved recently discharged United States soldier. who moves across the country from California to Philadelphia with his wife, Julia, back to her old stomping ground where she grew up to take a job as an outreach minister for a church, and he quickly finds out that an abortion clinic recently moved directly across the street from the church. It's not around the corner, it's not down the block, but it's right across the street. And so he inquires of the pastor as to what's being done, and he faces apathy. And he then inquires of the church the same and faces the same.

and through a series of events that take place in his life. and through one tragic event that takes place, He gets to the point where he is willing to risk it all to stand up against that abortion clinic. Shows what can happen when one man puts a stake in the ground and says, I'm going to risk it all to stand up for what's right before God.

Now, what is it that you feel Draws people into this without alienating those who identify as pro-choice. You know what it is? We don't explain that abortion is wrong by showing pictures of aborted babies. And we don't actually there's a scene where there's the abortion clinic owner and our lead character together after something very dramatic happens in the movie. And we spent probably 40 hours editing that scene so that we would not make the abortion clinic look owner look like a villain, but that she's real.

And she's got her own issues relative to this. And we did the same for our lead actor as well.

So it's really designed to get the church excited to take action. It's not the kind of movie. where you're going to leave there with goosebumps and say, wow, I feel so good. You're actually going to leave the movie affected. Yeah.

You're going to leave this movie realizing that something needs to be done and, quite frankly, you're going to be a little disturbed. And you're going to say, I've got to do something about this.

Now, there's a quote from Francis Schaefer, which I'll paraphrase because I don't have it exactly in front of me. But he said something to the effect that every abortion clinic in America needs to have a sign in front of it saying open by permission of the local church. Do you think that's overstated? I don't. I really don't.

In fact, I think it's wonderful, and I would even say it more dramatically. I go to the abortion clinics, and you don't have to go there with signs of protest You go there and you counsel with women who are walking in to get An abortion, and I've had situations where they have changed their mind. Actually, I had a pro-choice friend of mine say, you're actually giving them a choice. But here's the sad part. I'm there.

and nobody else's. There's no path. Outside of these abortion clinics. And if every abortion clinic were attended by just one person from a church within a 10-mile radius, That abortion clinic would be closed down. The church has closed their eyes, and quite frankly, They, for the most part, are voiceless.

for the voiceless in the womb. Yeah, I have friends who for years have been on the front lines of the pro-life movement, and they're champions, they're pioneers. I was only arrested one time for being part of a pro-life demonstration, and I've had friends arrested multiplied times. Not that that's their goal, it's just what's happened or punched in the face by others who were upset. And I've got colleagues that are working holistically from baby showers to adoption when the mothers agree to have the child to all kinds of other holistic remedies, from pregnancy life centers, pregnancy crisis centers, to other forms of standing in front of abortion clinics and praying and fasting, etc.

And our students at our ministry school are always steadily involved with this. Our congregants are involved, are encouraged to be involved. But you're absolutely right. It's the tiniest, tiniest, tiniest percentage, tiniest percentage of Christians who are involved. And really, if 1% Of the believing church in America got actively involved on a weekly basis in the pro-life movement, that would turn the tide, let alone 5 or 10%.

And obviously, the goal in your movie, as you said, to get people disturbed. To do something, we've just got. Two minutes. But do you believe Because number one, the film actually came together, which plenty of people have ideas to make films, and very few ever happen. And two, that you got critical acclaim in a potentially hostile setting.

Does that give you hope that God may be doing something to turn the tide? You know what it does? Here's what it really shows me, though. When we get outside of our comfort zone, and that's what I had to do to make this movie, when we were deciding what to do, we knew that we could not do this on our own, but we had to just take a walk of faith in this arena.

So when we get outside of our comfort zone, we give God the opportunity to really shine through the lives that we live. And so I encourage your listeners to do this. Get outside of your comfort zone. Go to voiceless the movie.com. Go see the movie, bring a friend with you, invite somebody who's pro-choice, sit down next to them, and you're taking an action step.

You see, if we just take action steps, We can make a difference and we can overturn Roe versus Wade, and then, more importantly, eliminate the sin within the church and outside of it. Yeah, and develop a holistic pro-life culture because as you would know, Stuart, being in front of the abortion clinics, many women are wrestling with this. They're in pain, they're struggling, they're trying to do the right thing and can't figure out what to do. It's not just a flipping thing of, I'll just kill the baby. You may have some that are like that, but so many are not.

And we want to develop a holistic culture of life.

So think of it, friends. You can invite someone to see a movie with you. A friend that's not a believer, a believer that's not strong in pro-life issues, invite them to go see a movie. and do something that can directly lead to the saving of a life Of a baby. Go to voiceless the movie.com.

Voiceless the movie.com. Watch the trailer. Find out more. The movie comes to theaters on October 7th. Hey, Stuart, maybe we'll do one more interview that week right before the movie comes out and do our best to promote this for the cause of life.

I appreciate what you've done and your initiative in putting this movie together. Thank you, my brother. And I just wanted to say: if you go to the voicelessmovie.com website, you can get a 10-step Process of how to set up a pro-life ministry in your church, and it will include everything that you said, Michael, and more on what the church needs to do to get involved. Awesome.

Well, friends, that's what's stopping you. Thanks again, Stuart. God bless you. You too, brother. Bye-bye.

Hey friends, it is our joy. to be a voice for the voiceless. And a previous caller made a point, it was a great point. People would say the quote pro-choice side. if they would say, hey.

Uh Baby in the womb, child in the womb, we call it child, has no constitutional rights, then who's going to fight for that kid if not for us? Friends, check out my latest articles and videos at askdrbrown.org. My bottom line today, yes, I agree with Francis Schaefer. Every abortion clinic should have a sign in front of it saying, open by the permission of the church. When God says, choose life, that means beginning in the womb.

It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I talk about hearing it all. Talk about truth being stranger than fiction. How about this?

This is Michael Brown. No, that's not the truth that's stranger than fiction. That's just truth. Michael Brown, this is the line of fire. Report from LifeSight News yesterday from Ben Johnson.

Planned Parenthood has accused Donald Trump of being cruel to a baby. Joe, come on. You think Planned Parenthood could have picked a a better battle to fight You think there's not a little hypocrisy there? You think there's not a little. Contradiction there.

Planned Parenthood? criticizing Donald Trump about being cruel to a baby.

So Planned Parenthood presented Donald Trump as cold-hearted for jokingly ejecting a baby from his rally. and the process touched provoking mass Ba bas uh excuse me, in the process A touch-provoking massive backlash that Planned Parenthood may not be the most sensitive organization to babies' needs.

So He went to reassure the concerned mother that her crying baby did not upset him. Don't worry about the baby. I love babies. He said, Don't worry, I love babies. I hear that baby crying, I like it.

What a beautiful baby, he continued as the crowd applauded. Don't worry, don't worry. The mom's running around, like, don't worry about it. You know, it's young and beautiful and healthy. That's what we want.

He said, actually, I was only kidding. You can get the baby out of here. That's all right. Don't worry. I think she really believed me that I love having a baby crying while I'm speaking.

So he's having fun with this. Planned Parenthood tweets: add babies to the list of people Donald Trump would kick out of his campaign rallies.

Some responded. Planned Parenthood, don't you kill babies? Another coming from an organization that kills babies and sells their body parts. Another from the people that kick them out of the womb. Sure.

Boy, oh boy. talk about Wrong thing to post on Planned Parenthood. Come on. champions of concerns about babies, right? All right, we are going to have a fascinating interview with scholar, debater, author, and theologian John Rankin.

He has a new book on changing Changing the Language of discussion about pro-life issues.

So, we want to talk to John about that. And take your calls as well: 866-348-7884. Maybe people have raised arguments to you that seem strong. How how do you answer them? Maybe they've said well What?

We can't even afford to feed our two b kids now. We're going to bring another child into the womb, and that child's going to suffer. We can't put another burden on everybody. And look, the doctors told us our baby has a severe handicap. Why bring the child into the world just to suffer for six months and die?

And we don't even think we could handle the emotional trauma, then hundreds of thousands of medical bills to preserve a life that's going to be agony. Isn't that cruel? Why not end it in the womb? And if that's a human being, it's going to go be with the Lord anyway, to save it from hellish suffering. Or look, this is the product of ancestral rape.

15-year-old brother raped his 12-year-old sister and she was able to conceive. And you're going to force her to be pregnant and mar her whole life? These arguments seem like strong arguments, at least to some. How do we respond? If you've got a question, or if you yourself identify as pro-choice and think that we are being.

bigoted or or small-minded or imposing our views on others and now forcing a woman to make decisions based on our religious views. Give us a call, 866-34THOOTH. We will be right back. Shit. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. We've been focusing today on the issue of life beginning in the womb.

My guest, John Rankin, president of the Theological Education Institute, TEI, online that is TEII.org. He's an author, scholar, theologian, debater. We had him lecture for us at a special summer session at Fire School of Ministry some years back, and he opened up one of the greatest contributions he's made to the body, which is that the fundamental issues of life and death and morality in society are found right in the book of Genesis, right even in the beginning of the book of Genesis. And perhaps when we deal with the issue of life and life beginning in the womb, that the most fundamental truths here emerge from the fact that we are created in the image of God. John has a new book.

We'll tell you about availability, how you can get it a few minutes into the broadcast. It's a new book, Changing the Language of the Abortion Debate. And when I speak with John about these issues, as I said just a few minutes ago before the last segment ended, if you have a question, If you identify as pro-choice and you want to challenge any of John Rankin's position, which would mirror my position on these issues in terms of us both being biblically based pro-life believers, if you have a question as a pro-life person that you're struggling with or you don't know the best way to answer an objection about abortion, give us a call, 866-34TRUTH. Without further ado, John, welcome back. It is welcome back this time to the Line of Fire broadcast.

Well, good afternoon. All right, John, what's this new book about and why do we need to change the language about the abortion debate? You know, my calling into a public policy ministry goes back thirty-four years when I was working my way through Gordon Conwell Seminary. And I knew I knew I wanted to bring the gospel into the culture, but I.

Okay. quite know how and and the calling was to see theologically educated people in politics. Was back in 1981. to me was an oxymoron. It is still somewhat.

Yeah.

But I Realize that I Yeah. Have the vision or the grasp of how you could be in the political world and be faithful to the scripture. at the same time. which was reflection. uh of of my understanding of politics in in in the early nineteen eighties.

And so I began Um in prayer 1983, uh the Lord made it clear I was to um Begin this course. In Christian Pro-Life Ministry, which I did and did that full-time for eight years. And it was a tremendous. Tremendous. learning curve.

I took a very fine theological education at Uh Into the middle of the debate, I taught in churches all over the Northeast and beyond. Very quickly I was invited to do debates on college campuses entangled myself with the religious coalition for abortion rights and plan Parenthood. The ferris. And they found almost immediately But my interest was not to win a debate, but it was to win a relationship in the face of an honest debate. and that established itself quite quickly.

So what happens is that I took a good theological education. When I did my first seminar, my first two seminars on this. in Rockport, Massachusetts than in Northampton, Massachusetts. After the second seminar, I got a lovely letter from the Associate Pastor saying, thank you for the seminar. I came expecting to learn about the abortion debate, but instead, you taught me about every debate.

And I go, really?

Now, how is that? is only looking at the issue of a war. Yeah.

Well, I went with my instincts. I started My uh observations about the topic. in Genesis Yeah. which is, as you indicated, the interpretive leverage for everything there is to know in life. Yeah.

the class I did for you some years ago. I wrote an entire book. that came out of that class. that I'm updating right now be done in a few days. Doing all my own.

Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek translations. of uh using the answer. Yeah.

far richer uh to go straight to the and the source. itself. And I put that into a book. Uh three years ago Yeah. whole week-long series in Singapore.

And what I argue is there are 11 positive assumptions. Yeah, it says one in Yeah. They are found nowhere else in the world. The world that the basis for any genuine and the most rigorous liberal arts inquiry possible. And if we invest ourselves in to understanding these assumptions.

then every interpretive issue, every debate we face can be understood quite straightforwardly.

So that's how I began in this direction. And then in in some ways that this book could have been written twenty years ago but I was uh dealing with other issues and other priorities. And then I with in prayer earlier this year when I sort of Caught up from a lot. of past work. And uh in prayer in the middle of the night one night, uh The Lord said, write the book.

And I didn't know when I'd write the book. I had the title in my head for a year, Changing the Language of the Abortion Debate.

So I sat down. I had written about 300 articles over the years. wrote the book in nine days and edited in sixteen more days and have tweaked it a couple of times in the meantime. But the title is is very simply this. Is that those who define the term.

honestly are those who went to debate and the poor life movement we have to do. We have always been an not a proactive one, so I'm seeking to be in a proactive position. All right, the book, Changing the Language of the Abortion Debate. We want to delve into the contents more and even reflect back on some of those positive assumptions from Genesis 1 through 3, the 11 positive assumptions that you mentioned. But if folks want to get hold of this book, what's available now?

What's about to be available? Here's the bumper. It's not on Amazon as we do this live. It will be back on Amazon tonight. Good night.

Yeah.

In doing all my retranslations, I had to tweak something on. Yeah.

first thing this morning. Takes about 12 hours. Got it.

Okay. What I will say is this. If anyone wants to email me. T-E-I-I. At T E I.org.

Yeah.

copies I'll sell them. Half price, okay? Um and then I will and they each They've been tweaked a little bit since then. they were published. substantial difference.

Yeah, well, tell you what, as I'm looking, so you don't have to worry about selling at half price. As I'm looking here, I'm looking on Amazon, and it says paperback, out-of-print, limited ability, add to lists.

So, if folks just go there, that's the easiest way to order to Amazon, changing the language of the abortion debate. You can just click that you want it, and then within 24 hours. But they let you do that. Yeah, yeah, you just wonderful. Yeah, it just you could add it to your to your wish list or whatever, and then they'll have it available soon.

And we'll we'll roll we'll remind folks about it. I'll do it. I'll remind them later in the week and tell them to listen to the discussion here. All right, we've got I love your technological expertise. Oh, well, hey, we're just trying to listen, man.

I'm an author and I watched, you know, sometimes the blurb is not right, or the description is not right.

So we're right on it, you know, get it changed. And it is that little cycle. And I know how it feels. You know, you put these things out. It's like the baby being born.

You just here it is available, and we kind of live with these things. But two minutes before our first break, I want to bring some callers on as well. But two minutes, let's just start off. Give me one of the most fundamental things where we can change the language.

Okay, it's it's uh a threefold strategy. And the first two I'm working behind the scenes on right now. Number one. is to have all members of the United States Congress and state legislators Be pulled. to publicly answer a question.

Now we can do this in the grassroots. And we can tell the amount of members of Congress with the state Legislature. That we're going to publish. The first question is this. In biological terms, when does an individual human life begin?

They have to answer from Yeah. roster. viability, birth, or right in a different biological term. The bottom line is over 80% will take among those who are willing to answer. And we will establish what everyone knows that will establish it.

publicly that the We're dealing with discrete.

Okay. human life in the womb. Secondly, and I'm paraphrasing off the top of my head, To what extent Is human abortion directly? driven by male irresponsibility. And you can say very much so.

somewhat or very little. But I've never pulled the power. question before But it's going to be so educational. Yeah.

99% of all abortions are driven by the man who gets a woman pregnant, takes off. And women know this. The president of the National Association for Abortion Rights, Kate Michaelman, on C-SPAN 20 years ago. And so what happens is I believe that All the women who answer this overwhelmingly will say very much. Probably half the men will refuse to answer so as not to implicate them.

themselves. But in the process, we will be in the driver's seat. Abortion destroys a human life. But the deepest reality is if Yeah. woman's right.

It's a male show that is picked like. Yeah.

All right. John Rankin, the author, his new book, Changing the Language of the Abortion Debate. You'll be able to order it. On Amazon within 24 hours, or you can put it on your list of books that you want to get right now at Amazon. Again, the author John C.

Rankin, Changing the Language of the Abortion Debate. This is the fruit of decades of prayer, study, interaction, and always the goal: life. Life. Life. We'll be right back with your calls and author John C.

Rankin. His website, Teii.org. Angel world It's fire we want, for fire we It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thank you so much for joining us today on the line of fire. Michael Brown, thrilled to be back from Korea. I was thrilled to be in Korea ministering and thrilled to be back from Korea and glad to be able to take your calls.

My guest today, John C. Rankin, author, theologian. Scholar and debater, his newest book, which will be available for order on Amazon within 24 hours, Changing the Language of the Abortion Debate. John, let's grab a call and then I've got a bunch more questions for you. Ryan in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, what's your question or comment for John Rankin?

Hi, yep, I'm calling Betsy for having. me on that and basically it's it's Concerning the idea that, well, If it's If abortions are made illegal or something along those lines.

So the question remains that what happens to the children whenever they are born when let's say that their life is, you know, ended due to an abortion, or their life is Not ended because you can't get an abortion. Do you support these social welfare programs? That would maybe take care of them because overwhelmingly, when you study the actual demographics of people who are getting abortions, it's people who already have children, it's women who are married, and it's women who just simply can't afford. They're employed and they're single. And the fact that it's a maneuver in which to protect maybe the child and their.

And themselves, and I understand. not necessarily agreeing with Either You know, yes, you should do this for whatever instance, but it's the idea that they have the right to choose. And if they don't have the right to choose, are there better options for the children out there? who might not have the support at home. What's your response to that, John?

Well Ryan, thank you so much. I I know Winston-Salem quite well. I spoke Um we press down to the deeper fabric, the social fabric, which is broken. And I'll just set up a little background and then give a direct answer. Eighty one percent of all abortions are upon unmarried women.

Of the remaining eighteen percent, three quarters of them are Uh the woman is pregnant to an act of adultery.

So you don't have a married couple aborting their own child. And at the last one quarter of the eighteen percent, Okay. few exceptions left over. demands on the way out the door.

So that's why we have these two questions. Yeah.

One to establish a humanity unborn. With And then number two, to assign the responsibility to the man.

So one thing you would do is I'm not looking for punitive laws. I'm looking for laws that protect. If there's any punishment, I think overwhelmingly it lands on the man. And therefore laws you could even do now before the legal protection of the unborn is one. is to require every biological Father to be responsible.

For the well-being of his child. And then you would organize legal enforcement. On those grounds.

Now, of course. Yeah.

because you have a whole culture That teaches men to be free, a whole welfare system. Back to LBJ. that pays women more money to be single on welfare than it is to be married. Married and to have children.

So, what happens is, until we rebuild the family, we're really in no position to do that. And we're not going to win this debate until we rebuild the family.

So that's it. A very shorthand reality. The other reality is this really is not a woman's choice. Uh speak to women. They do not want to have abortion.

It's the male irresponsibility. that drives it.

So I hope that's at least a starting point to give a flavor of what direction I would pursue. Excellent. John, much appreciate it. Ryan, thank you for the call. We'll grab some more calls as we go on.

John, you speak of rebuilding the family. Where does that start? What are some of the essential building blocks that we must put in place to rebuild the American family? Oh, well you gave me a very simple question. The the answer is the gospel.

We are not going to see any difference in this culture and the complete lawlessness of our current apart from a revival of the entire church. and an awakening in the culture. If we look in the book, I think that's a good idea. and judges as well. When Israel or Judah or Babylon Both were on the verge of collapse.

completely under the slavery say the Assyrians, the Philistines. It's only one When, as a whole nation, they were desperate enough to cry out for God's help. And we, until we in the church, are desperate. All across the range of the church, those who name Jesus as Lord, unless we cry out for help. Nothing is going to happen.

How do we get to that point? And then when we get to that point, what would we do?

Well this is the focus on another one of my books called the six pillars of honest politics. And in it is a A system where you make sure that every idea is fully listened to. within the political structure Okay. way. and every debate fully aired, so that law can be reshaped.

So what I've done is for my home state, Connecticut, and then nationally, I've taken the U. S. Constitution and its laws I did this at years ago at the and reduced it to twenty-four pages. in Connecticut from seventeen thousand pages down to thirty three pages. Yeah.

And so what happens is Yeah. laws are special. interest pork barrel complicated regulations that simply enslave us.

So was Madison who said, if laws become so voluminous that we cannot understand them, And then, you know, We we're in trouble. And and we are in that place right now. And so we've got to That's to simplify the laws and So what I do in that book is I give a structure and how to do it. And central to the structure is what I've been doing for thirty five years. In the debates I did in the 1980s and in my Mars Hill Forum series, where I invite lead skeptics of my biblical worldview into public.

Dialogue. The head of the national Uh abortion right to action list. Yeah.

Association, a national organization for women, people like Jeremiah Wright. Uh the former pastor Brian. Obama we come into public forums college campuses and churches. And I simply want to make sure they're listened to. In terms of where they disagree with me and the questions they have.

And it's extraordinary when people are listened to. It's amazing how much conflict is ratcheted down and how much learning is ratcheted up. And so that's what I seek to do in in that book. Important Parcel width. that is the fan So for example, my advisor at Harvard pointed out that We do not have any Um uh social order apart from trust.

And where is trust first learned? It's first learned from a child at his or her mother's breast with the husband and father being a part of the family that we Welcomes that child into the world. Yeah.

By the way, in this book, I have a large section that is what I call Theology 101. Yeah.

Yeah.

And show how once we break the trust between man and woman, everything breaks on forward down to Sodom and Gorbachev.

So it's got to start with the church Building up the family, being hospitable. Yeah.

being salt and light in the culture. It's a time-consuming process. But unless we're biblically literate, we don't know how to begin. And that basically is what I've been trying to wrap myself around. For the last 34 years.

All right, I'm speaking with John Rankin. We've got some more time to raise issues, discuss solutions to problems in the culture. The book we're especially focusing on today, Changing the Language of the Abortion Debate, you should be able to order it afresh on Amazon.com within 24 hours. But in this list, you can read about it and should be ready for order within 24 hours. Again, changing the language of the abortion debate.

We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I have on the air with me now a very special guest. John Rankin. He is an author, scholar, theologian, debater.

He heads up the Theological Education Institute. You can go to the website as I am right now, T-E-I-I.org. See about his latest Morris Hill form. He's done 155 of these, interacting with those who believe differently, having honest conversations on difficult and differing views. He's got two new books: Changing the Language of the Abortion Debate, and Moses and Jesus in the Face of Muhammad.

And the Theological Education Institute believes one The biblical freedom to ask hard questions can change the world. And specifically, too, the gospel of Jesus Christ advances religious, political, and economic liberty for all people equally. John, thanks so much for joining us on the broadcast today. My pleasure. All right, let me throw something out at you to you.

This is throwing you a big softball pitch that you could hit out of the park 10 times.

So we'll have to limit your answer to three or four minutes as opposed to 30 or 40 hours. But because human beings are created in the image of God, Because that is a fundamental truth, what flows from that? What are some of the most important deductions we can make from that reality that human beings are created in the image of God? I'll just give you a very simple answer. In all pagan religions, Uh human beings uh Are not Um in the image of Of the gods.

The gods are in the image of Solomon. Selfish human beings.

So, what happens is These gods and Goddesses. are tyrants. And the three major sins Uh ancient Judah was um prosecuted for by Jeremiah.

Well sort of That is believing in the gods and guidance. Mm-hmm. manipulate our lives and we have to bargain for freedom. That's what sorcery or witchcraft is all about.

Okay. Number one, number two, sacred prostitution. where women and boys are treated as sexual objects in religious rituals. trying to win favors, as it were, from these gods and goddesses. And number three, child.

Sacrifice, the burning of children alive in the fire pits of Tophet, for example, outside Jerusalem. between six hundred and five and five hundred eighty six BC. A which a is a cognate. uh when you look at what uh Human sacrifice is It's the belief that if you give up this usually firstborn son, usually a few months old. then you will gain peace And prosperity and fertility.

That isn't that uh Ironic that you would kill a child to gain fertility. And yet, if you look at the entire abortion ethos today. It is rooted in an understanding that oh You can't afford to have this child come. Abort the trials and things will go better for you later. They don't go better for you.

later. The same mythology.

So if we are made in the image of God, We are equal. And it's the only The end of Revelation just trans uh translated from this recently. when there's a great multitude before heaven of every tribe and people and language and nation. I mean About a race-free reality, there is no difference in color and background. We are all made in God's image.

Yeah.

and the small powerful Scripture from the Hebrew prophets to Jesus to the apostles is they're always holding the rich and powerful accountable. Those who They're feeding off of people and they're devouring people for their own selfish purpose. purposes. And so It the image of God is a challenge to all wickedness there is in human life to All tyranny. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and John, so succinctly, as you put it, that in pagan myth, the gods are created in the image of selfish human beings, but scripturally, we are created in the image of a holy, transcendent, just God. This thereby elevates human life and says every human life has value, has dignity, has meaning, and human beings then are fundamentally. Equal. All right, I've got a bunch more questions for my guest, John Rankin. If you have a question, If you would like to ask him about abortion, you're confused.

I don't know how to respond. And what what about incest or rape? I mean, you're going to force a woman to have a baby? Give us a call, 866-343. Oh God of Bernie Clinton See Flame.

Send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Shooting birds. There are now reports that. 1 a.m., the night of Wednesday to Thursday, the 28th of July, 2016. A gang of Muslim migrants in Paris allegedly ambushed and burned down a passenger bus in the, I'm not sure the pronunciation here, in particular, district. The masked men set up a roadblock, threatened the bus driver, smashed the windows, and set the bus on fire.

This is according to liveleak.com. The passengers escaped before one of the men screamed Allahu Akbar as he threw a Molotov cocktail into the driver's side, causing a loud explosion. The bus burnt down to a metal hull. My guest, John Rankin, is the founder and president of the Theological Education Institute, TEII.org. Visit the website.

You'll find lots of fascinating information there on key cutting-edge subjects. And John's two most recent books, Changing the Language of the Abortion Debate and Moses and Jesus in the Face of Muhammad. I believe there is a connection there. John, is there a connection between radical Islam's culture of death and the abortion culture in America?

Okay. Well certainly there is. Mm-hmm. And you hit the nail on the head by identifying the image of God. Uh within Islam there is no concept of the image of God.

we are made out of a congealed spot of blood and all the way through the storyline. uh such as there is within the Quran. Uh you have no But with the Bible is quoted. It's referenced and reshaped into stuff that is fictional. But biblical understanding is.

foreign. Yeah.

Yeah.

And in my book, it's Called Moses and Jesus in the Face of Muhammad. And I'm making a very Simple observation and thesis with some rigorous work. And that is in Moses, this is back to Genesis 2. We have Yeah. playing field.

God says this is life, this is death. Choose between the two. This is slavery, this is freedom. Choose between the two. This is good, this is evil, choose between the two.

Moses reiterates that at the end of his life. Joshua reiterates it. And Elijah makes it very clear before. And so They'd be incredible, wonderful. If I can use that language, of Yahweh El Rohim.

the one sovereign creator. is that he doesn't force his love on us because is an oxymoron. The nature of doing the good Uh leads freedom. And therefore you cannot force good, you cannot force freedom.

So we are free to say yes or no to his goodness, but Yeah. An honest definition of terms. This is life, this is death. You do not have And so what I do is I lay out their level playing field. to make an honest choice in Genesis.

I show how Jesus fulfills that. In the face of his enemies during Passion Week, It's in this book. It's also in a different, another book called Jesus in the Face of His Enemies. And then I give forty-one vignettes from Mohammed's life from the most ancient and authoritative biography of his life. that no Muslim would disagree.

uh with me that I have not given an honest representation of who they understand Muhammad to be. And in all forty one vignettes, which are very honest Representing his entire which I represent more fully. in a different book. You see he's the opposite of Moses, he's the opposite of Jesus. Islam is a one-way religion.

Uh and it has orange Abu Bakr. Uh the first uh colour. in Islam, who was Mo uh was Muhammad's right hand man. He said toward the end of Muhammad's life, Uh allah gives Gave Muhammad his religion. And he strove to accepted it voluntarily or by force.

And the word translated strove for. is the word jihad.

So what happens is Islam has an agenda. And that is to bring the entire world under its domination politically. And if you become a Muslim, then you have a Higher stature. If you remain a Christian or a Jew, you are second class and you lose a lot of. rights a lot of humanity.

And so what I'm doing in this book is I'm saying, let's look at these realities. for informed choice. But then secondly, I celebrate the gospel. And I say because Gospels Yeah. Coercion.

force. And that is And back to who Jesus is. Fulfilling who Moses reveals God to be, that is the one who gives us choice. Jesus gives us the freedom to accept and reject his love, and therefore we need to give that freedom to unbelievers and Muslims as well.

So what I propose in in this book is a liberty amendment to the U. S. Constitution. And it would do real well in the Turn political debate over Muslim immigration. And very simply, In this Two sentence um uh a liberty amendment It's a the acknowledgment that all of us have religious, political Economic liberty.

under American jurisprudence. And two, we must affirm religious, political, economic liberty for all. other people equally, which means they're free to choose their religious political and economic affiliations. free from coercion. Once you put that in there, free from coercion.

You said an absolute no to Sharia law. You've all said no to Nazi supremacy. You've said no to every form of of coercion. Mm-hmm. history.

So the commonality from our perspective As biblical people is to affirm. the image of God and to affirm the gift of freedom. Yeah.

one choice. All right, someone would come back and say, but Reverend Rankin, you say no coercion. And yet you are forcing your views or wanting to force your views on society as a whole. Here is a woman who gets raped, and you are coercing her. You are saying you must carry that baby to terms.

She didn't conceive that baby by choice. She was violated. Every moment she carries that baby brings her back to the horror of rape.

Now, even if she gives the baby up for adoption, her life is forever scarred by that. At least, as soon as she finds out she's pregnant, she can terminate the pregnancy and go on with life. She's still traumatized, but it's a lot less traumatic. Yet you want to coerce her to carry that baby because of your antiquated religious views. How do you respond?

Well, first of all. I will take any antiquated charge and show that the only way to do honest history, science, and law. are found in the assumption of Genesis one and two. Let me give you a story. At Brown University in 1989, I was challenged by a woman on exactly this question.

in front of 400 people and I was debating the president of Planned Parenthood of Rhode Island, or the immediate past president. And I looked at her, and And of course the moment she said this, you could hear it. Here a pin drop in. in in that uh packed room. I said, is it fair for me to assume that you, like me, in your life, are seeking to live to love?

To laugh and to learn. And everyone. It was quiet. They all affirmed it, eyeball to eyeball. I said, is it also.

uh fair for me to assume That, like me, you're seeking peace order to Actually, I reversed the order of those two. Peace orders to be able to hope first and secondly to live, to love, to laugh and to learn. and the affirmation was complete. I said, okay. Then I just have one.

Uh observation. Far more that unites us than divides us, and it leads to a question. Does abortion unrape the woman? Or does it only add further brokenness to her life. and you could hear a pen drop.

And I was one time speaking to the wife of one of the top academics in the world in a social gathering. I was about to share the story. As an illustration, the image Yeah. And I mentioned it was the debate over abortion and she goes, Oh, I'm pro-choice. And I said, Oh, that's not my concern.

In this discussion. When I came to the point of saying, does abortion unripe the woman? We're in this house with twenty people in the living room And when I say at that point, There's an unrighteous woman. She goes, No! And everyone in the room turned around.

To look at her. They didn't know our discussion. But a passion. As a physician, She knows abortion solves nothing. It only evacuates the room, traumatizes the woman.

One time on WGAN Radio in Maine, the big 50,000 watt station up there. Uh I was sharing this with uh with with the Stee J trying to sort of put me into a corner. And woman called up and said, you know this man you're you're uh You can talk about rape and incest. And I saw a glisten in in the DJ's eye, oh man, this woman's gonna really bury you. He said, this man Listened to who has understood my pain.

I mean. I was told for years they ran that program over and over again. Uh She said, Mm-hmm. Isn't it amazing? that it's men who get you pregnant.

and then force you to an abortion done. another man. In other words, once we pull into the male chauvinistic hell. And this is what it is. visited upon women forced to rape, Yeah.

Get abortion. who have been raped. than those who are pregnant by other meat.

So back to the initial question. I don't force anything, I never have. What I'm seeking to do is to win the consensus of the culture. to protect those whom we define as human life.

So if we go back to Roe v. Wade decision in nineteen seventy three, They said, and I'm paraphrasing, we don't know when life begins.

Well In a court of law, If you don't know when life begins, or if you don't know the definition of terms, the facts of the case. don't rule in a case. But they pretend to be ignorant. And then tell you what, let me just jump right in. We've got a break.

Want to conclude with John Rankin? Visit his website, Teii.org, Theological Education Institute. Check out his newest books listed there. We'll be right back. Hey, this is Michael Brown.

I want to invite you to join me for our second ever trip to Israel, February 25th through March 6th, 2017. This is a great opportunity I get to interact with you, our radio listening audience, and our ministry partners as we experience the land of Israel together and it will be a life-changer. We've got a great price on the trip. And if you're one of our monthly supporters or torch bearers, you're eligible to receive a special discount for this once-in-a-lifetime experience. Space is limited, and we're accepting applications on a first-come, first-served basis.

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Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us today on the line of fire. We've had a special pro-life focus through the day. With two special guests, my guest almost this entire hour, John C. Rankin.

He is both brilliant, devoted to the Lord. and compassionate as well. And if you go to his website, the Theological Education Institute, T-E-I-I dot org, you'll find lots of fascinating, edifying information, as well as links to his newest books, one on Moses, excuse me, on Muhammad. Oh, hang on. I'll get this title right here.

I've got it right in front of me. Moses and Jesus. That's it, in the face of Muhammad. And changing the language of the abortion debate. Changing the language of the abortion debate, you'll be able to order within 24 hours on Amazon.com.

And what I especially appreciate about John, not only that he always brings things back to the gospel, but that he approaches familiar issues in unfamiliar ways. He'll come up with an insight, a different approach than many have, and it's refreshing to hear that.

So right before the break, John was talking about a fundamental issue with Roe v. Wade. If you're going to bring someone to court for homicide, but you can't define homicide or agree on what it means, then obviously you can't push the case forward. Yet, justice is saying we don't know exactly when life does begin.

However, we're going to rule on that.

So, John, let's jump back in where we left off before the break. Sure. And let me just make this observation. It was beginning when I started Pearl Life Ministry thirty four years ago. It was By starting in Genesis one and two, Yeah.

through the toughest questions. Gave me insights that I never would have had otherwise, and yet the insights are right there in Scripture. And I think it's true that if we just Study issues theoretically will only have theoretical knowledge.

So I've always lived a life of trying to be a scholar on the one hand and be at the grassroots where people are and where they love, where they hope and where they hurt simultaneously. But the observation was making was that their argument was we don't know where life begins. This is the weakest form of moral argument in human history. And yet we in the church have never challenged this, but have Have we even understood it? And there's two places in Scripture where this argument comes.

Up first of all, with Kane.

So he's being quizzed as to where his brother is. He says, am I to guard my brother? is a far stronger verb than most people understand. Am I my keeper? No, am I am I to guard my brother the way uh Shamar, you know the Hebrew the way that Adam was to guard The garden from the intrusion of of the ancient serpent.

And he says, So where's your brother? I don't know. he wouldn't admit the truth. He couldn't market the lie, so So he pretended to be ignorant. Then, in the face of his enemies, during Passion Week, the Pharisees try to entrap Jesus.

on where he got his authority from. And he says, Well, tell tell tell you what. Uh level playing field time. Paraphrasing. I'll answer you if you answer me.

Where did John the Baptist get his authority from?

Well, they huddled. They had a conversation with the husband. among themselves and they Option A, again paraphrasing. if they say from heaven, Well, then they'll have to repent because John testified to Jesus.

So they're not going to repent. Option B, from earth or human authority, but they know if they say that, they'll be stoned to death because the people held that John was a prophet.

So they couldn't invent the truth, couldn't market a lie, so their answer was we don't know.

So it's the weakest form of moral argument in history, and it's the basis for Roe B. Wade. So the answer for all this is the power of informed choice.

So back to our starting point in terms of changing the language of the abortion debate. What I'm recommending, and what I do in 400 pages of this book, there's a lot of autobiography, a lot of stories. a lot of good theology, a lot of good law. Um my uh Work in front of the abortion centers. The reason I The logical reasons why I said no to Operation Rescue.

We cover a whole lot of territory here. And the goal is getting people inside the storyline. thinking biblically. By the time we get to the end of very short chapter, We give three very simple strategic points. The two questions I brought up and then the strategy we used in front of the abortion centers.

where we had a huge banner. Yeah.

that said you have the power to choose life. We had worship, tremendous spiritual warfare there. We did our prayer. We we sang. We reached out and communicated.

communicated with abortion rights activists. And the Boston chapter, the National Organization for Women, after nine months of this, they stopped sending down the hundreds of volunteers because, quote, we were persuading too many of them.

So When you say you have the power to choose life, That's feminist language if you don't include the last word. You have the power to choose. But when you add the word life, all of a sudden it's comes to the power of informed choice. And so you have the power to choose life.

Well what are the power of good choice is there. And the fruit was absolutely phenomenal.

So what happens is once we spend time to look at the scriptures beginning in Genesis, Once we test the scriptures in the presence of skeptics and believers alike.

Well that's That's what I set myself to do these many years later. And so finally, it's in written form. And now that I think in a matter of days I will have finished a bunch of translation work and then for the first time In many years, I'm actually free to start raising rabble politically. Hey, I'm glad you're at that point. I understand the painstaking process of translation and editing of all these books.

Appreciate you done on the front lines, John. The latest book, Changing the Language of the Abortion Debate, will be available to order within 24 hours on Amazon. We'll remind you about that later in the week. And John's website, Theological Education Institute.org, T-E-I-I.org. Hey, keep up the fine work and do some holy rabble rousing in the days to come, man.

God bless you. Well so long as you can keep in trouble with me. Oh, I I Not a day goes by that I'm out in trouble, so don't worry about that.

So Ahab has the same opinion of both of us. Yes, sir. You who trouble Israel to Elijah. All right, God bless you, man. God bless you, Mike.

Bye-bye. Okay. All right, friends, that was John Rankin. I trust you enjoyed that interview. And yeah, yeah, I know no time to ask about Operation Rescue and what his difference was.

I just, because I've got many friends in Operation Rescue, and that's the one time I was arrested working with them.

So I'll find that out off the air and let you know. But this much we know: we stand together for the pro-life cause. And in the limited time we have, didn't have a chance to ask that. All right, friends. If you appreciate radio broadcasts like this, if you appreciate guests that we bring your way and that we are addressing these issues, stand with us.

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So if you appreciate what we're doing, Help us continue and expand by going to AskDr. Brown, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org, and clicking on Donate. To quote my guest, You abort a baby conceived by rape doesn't unrape the woman. Yeah.