Updates on Israel and Islam, and an Interview with a Former Black Hebrew Israelite

She was a member of the black Hebrew Israelites and left, and she has a story to tell. Oh no. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. It happened, it happened.

Early in the 1990s, I don't know exactly what year, could have been around 1993. I was doing a Jewish outreach, a Saturday night Jewish outreach in conjunction with Times Square Church. Don Wilkerson and I were working on it. Those days, I was preaching for David and Don Wilkerson at Times Square Church in the city. And we were doing a Jewish outreach this particular night, Saturday night.

So I was in the Times Square area and Walking around the city with a friend of mine, another Jewish-belief friend. And on a Saturday afternoon, nice day out. Everybody was on the streets. I remember there were Jews for Jesus guys on the streets handing out their literature. There were people selling all kinds of different things.

I mean, every imaginable person, and this one hawking this, and this one selling this, and this one giving this away. And then there was another.

Sound though that was different. They had a sound system. It was loud. And I heard shouting. And when I came walking up, I noticed the folks were dressed in an interesting way.

It was almost like kind of a combination of a biblical outfit and some contemporary clothes. And it seemed odd. As I began preaching, I realized that it was a particular cult, Hebrew Israelites. And they uh Run into them in some different settings, and they said the white man is the manifestation of Satan and things like that. And so I asked one of them, I said, If the Jews were black, then why did Hitler get them wrong?

So he tries, you know, why did Hitler try to kill all the Jews when they weren't really Jews? And he begins to, you know, give an answer. Anyway, I walked away, we were done, walked away, and I felt the Lord say to me, I felt the Lord say to me, You're not done. And I went back. And I began to Preach loudly.

I didn't have any amplification. I said, These men are deceiving you. They preach religion of hate. Jesus preached religion of love. We need each other.

Black and white, and Jew and Gentile, we need each other.

Well, the only thing I didn't calculate was that I was the only white person in the crowd. And anyway, things got pretty interesting thereafter. But I've not had a lot of interaction with those who identify as Hebrew Israelites over the years, except that we get more and more calls, sometimes on a weekly basis, emails, calls saying, Can we deal with this more? Can we deal with this more? What's the theology?

What are the beliefs?

Well, I've got a guest with me who's actually written about her own experience, Hannah D. Spivey. And she was part of the Hebrew Israelite religion and left. And I don't know exactly. Where Hannah stands in terms of faith or gospel or Bible in general.

So we'll find that out. We've just got a minute before our break. But Hannah, so glad you could join us. Welcome to the line of fire today. Hello?

Hey, tell our listeners the name of the book that you wrote documenting your own experience. Oh yeah, it's called Why I Abandoned the Hebrew Israelite Religion, a memoir slash self-help guide. All right, and how long were you part of the Hebrew-Israelite religion?

Well, I would say I was seriously a part of it for about a year and some change. But my father is actually a Hebrew Israelite, so excuse me, it's my Uh my father, he's you know, he's been part of this since the early eighties. Got it. Got it. All right.

And you are a stay at home mom, so I guess we have some proof of that in the background. And are you a person of any particular faith today or nonfaith? How would you describe yourself? I'll just say I'm a person of non-faith at this time right now. Got it.

All right. Listen, I want to give that context as we get into things.

So as soon as we come back, I want Hannah to describe from her perspective, with her dad active in this and then herself seriously active for a year plus, what her own experience is, how she defined Hebrew-Israelite beliefs, and If you got a question, by all means, give us a call 866-34 TRUTH. It is Thoroughly Jewish Thursday, and we'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Welcome back, friends, to Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. This is Michael Brown, my guest today, Hannah Spivey, her book, Why I Abandoned the Hebrew-Israelite Religion, a Memoir Self-Help Guide.

So, Hannah, I'm going to ask you questions as if I'm completely ignorant of Hebrew-Israelites, and you can fill in our listening audience because some will be more informed than others.

So, is this basically a religion, just like if I was a Muslim or Christian or a Jew, that I would become a Hebrew-Israelite? Is it A religion with practices and beliefs like any other religion.

Well, to me it is a religion because it's based in it's based in the Bible, but Hebrew Israelites don't believe that they're a religion. They believe that they are descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. and they believe that they are they have kinship to the forefathers in the Bible. But to me they are religion because I mean they read from the Bible like the Christians do, but course in in their culture, it's not a religion. It's their lineage is their heritage.

Got it. Right.

Well, the same way a Jewish person would say, okay, these are my forefathers, and this is my lineage, my heritage. But are there meetings that you go to? Like instead of going to a church service, you go to a Hebrew-Israelite service and someone's going to preach and lay out the ideology. Is that how it would happen? Similar to that.

There there are Hebrew Israelite camps. there are Hebrew Israelites who don't who don't go to camps.

Some may just have like a little fellowship amongst each other, but there are um Israelite camps just like there are churches, just like there are synagogues. just like their temples or like the Kingdom Hall with the Jehovah's Witnesses. Got it. And as far as distinctive beliefs, would they be reading the Bible the same as a Christian? Would, so believing in Jesus and so on, they'd be reading the Bible the same way, except.

instead of thinking that those who identify as Jews today are actually Jews and the people of Israel today are Jews, that they're the real Jews, so they believe everything the same as a Christian would believe, except they believe they're the real Jews or the real Israelites, or do they have unusual beliefs as well? Um, yeah. I mean, they they do believe that they that the Bible is black people's history. They believe that the Bible is for black people and written by black people. And um yeah, they would read the Bible the way Christians would read it except they don't keep the traditional holidays as the Christians do.

But Oh, go ahead, sorry.

So, would they keep Passover instead of Easter? And things like that. Exactly. Feast of tabernacles. the Day of Atonement, yes.

Got it. And I I know that there are different groups and some some are more extreme than others, but would they believe the standard things that Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead, except that he was he was a a black man as opposed to a Middle Eastern or Caucasian? Yeah, they do. I mean, you got Macy and the Hebrews who do may believe that, but they don't believe it the way the Christians Believe it. You know, like when it comes to Eastern time, they think that it's a it's a pagan ritual.

Right.

And um Yes, um There are Hebrews who are non-Masonic to where they don't believe that. 'Cause they believe that there's There's more than just one anointed person. They don't believe that Jesus or Yeshua is the anointed person. They believe there's more than just one anointed person. And that's where the clash comes in at within the Hebrew community where you have the non Um The non-Masonic Hebrew Israelites versus the Messianic Hebrew Israelites.

It's kind of like the bloods in the crypts, honestly. It's like it's one group of people ha believing like they ha believe that they have a knowledge different or better than the others, and that's why there are so many different Israelite camps because they have their own interpretation of the Bible, and that's why they have all those debates all over social media.

So yes, like you were saying, there is one Group of Israelite camps that are more extreme than the others. And then you have the most prominent Hebrew Israelite camps that are on social media. You know, you have the ISUPK groups, you have the GMS groups, you have the I U I C, if I'm pronouncing it correctly. And then you have the um gathering of What's it called? Gathering of Christ.

the G O C C camp basically. and they all have their own different types of distinct doctrines. And everybody Of course they all clash over just based on their own understanding. of the Bible. Right.

And but the Bible for all of them would would have some level of authority. In other words, they're not reading from the Quran or other books, they're reading primarily from the Bible. Absolutely. Got it. And can you join if you are Hispanic?

Yeah, unless you're like a dark skinned Hispanic person. They're they're I mean, they don't to my understanding, they don't really accept like the pale skinned Hispanics or the light skinned Hispanics. They they're more receptive to the dark skinned Hispanics, but I mean I have seen like lighter complexed Hispanics who do consider themselves Hebrew Israelites. What about a lighter complex A black person. Yeah.

I mean unless I mean, if they're like let's say if their father is black. And their mom is white, they would be considered like a biracial person or a mulatto person, and yeah, they would be considered a Hebrew person. But if both of their parents are light skinned, but and they're light skinned, if both of their parents are black, especially their father, because Hebrew Israelites grow just based off the lineage of the father, then yeah, a light skinned person would be accepted as a Hebrew. All right, and then Caucasians. Are we viewed as a manifestation of the devil, or simply not the original Israelites, say, or Caucasian Jew?

Is there hostility or is it just a matter of well, you're not the real chosen people?

Well, they do believe that the Khazarians what they allude to them as the Jewish the Caucasian Jewish people of the day are not the original Jewish people. And there are some hostility towards whites. And you have some Hebrews who don't have a problem with white people, but of course, they believe that the Bible is only written for the Israelites, the people who are descendants of slaves in America. Got it. All right, and what was it that drew you into this?

Obviously your dad being involved is one factor, but what drew you in personally? I thought that being a Hebrew Israelite was the it factor. I thought that they were because they claim to be set apart people, meaning that they're not like all the other nations and they do out they do everything within the Bible, they follow they try to follow all the laws, statutes and commandments of the Bible, but you know, with my father being an Israelite and he's been practicing it Supposedly like for 35 years. And I thought that, you know, just from him telling me, yeah, we the true we the true Jews, you know, we are the original people. And I mean, I was very enticed by it.

at first, and I remember being learned about this group GMF. and they were very hostile people. you know, towards women of color, black women, white people And I mean, I I it didn't it didn't deter me from not wanting to be part of the Hebrew Israelite thing, but I will say I've learned more about it on my own. when I relocated to Atlanta. And I consorted with other Hebrew Israelites, and it just took me to realize that they're just like anybody else.

They have they're flawed people like everybody else. It's just like it's just that they pretend or act like they're much better than so many people when their community is really in shambles. Wha and shambles in in what way from your experience?

Well, poverty is one. Misogyny. Multiple camps. a lot of disrespect for each other. Especially towards women.

Um What do you attribute the hostility towards women too? Wh w where would that come from?

Well, I mean, the way they feel like women should be submissive to men who are pr who aren't really worthy of being submissive to. I mean, you have. camps out there who 'cause the Hebrew Israelite women are allowed to be teaching. in the you know, they go scripture scripture-wise, I think it's the book of Timothy. Yeah.

isolate, but, you know, 'cause I haven't really Been in the Bible like that in a while, but they don't believe that women are allowed to be speaking before a group of people. and what they call like what the Christian church would call the congregation, Hebrews of Lights will call it the assembly, a body of people who are who are fellowshipping and who are and where they have like a an elder or a more that's teaching them about the scriptures every sh Every Sabbath. And I mean, it's a lot of domestic abuse that goes on within the Hebrew community. It pretty much goes swept under the rug. because a lot of women, they are afraid of being punished either by the God that they follow or and or they're afraid of being stigmatized.

because it's it's like a a loyalty thing, a racial loyalty within their community. And recently, I was just reading an article about uh it was like it was it was a police officer who was a Hebrew Israelite And basically, it was him and another guy who was a former police officer. Tell you what, I've just got to jump in here. We'll get this on the other side of the break, the rest of the story. Hannah Spivey's book, Why I Abandoned the Hebrew-Israelite Religion: A Memoir, Self-Help Guide.

We come back up and want to ask her: what's the appeal? Why would someone want to identify as a Jew? God of light, hear our cry, send a fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Make me violent. By your Jesus, oh Lord, so I sing for joy at all your Friends of me. How great are your works, O Lord?

It is Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. This is Michael Brown. I'm speaking with Hannah Spivey, who's written the book Why I Abandoned the Hebrew-Israelite Religion. Hannah, right before the break, you were mentioning a situation with a police officer who was a Hebrew Israelite. We had a jump in there.

So, back to you.

Okay, yeah.

So, it was it was it was it had ha the incident, it was it was a tragedy that happened last week, and there was a police officer who was a Hebrew And then there was a another guy who was a former police officer, and they both took turns in beating this woman who was part of the Hebrew culture. and one of them had Again, they both actually both beat her. And I guess they call themselves beating her in beating her into submission because they were saying that she was not submissive. And that's like the word submission is. highly stressed in the Hebrew community.

Submit and submit to your husband. You know, the woman the man doesn't submit to the woman, the woman submits to the man, the man submits to the Most High or Yah. uh, whatever name that's you know, the Hebrew called, but Most for the most part they'll say Yah, Yahuwah, Yahweh. um, whatever, however they understand the name for themselves or however they learnt the name or who taught them when they were first introduced into the to that culture.

So yeah Yeah.

So here's what I'm trying to understand. Obviously, if. because of African American history, because of the terrible suffering. Endured uh In the slave trade, slavery, and then hardship under segregation, and still issues that arise today. For a black person to say, hey, I'm one of the chosen ones from ancient times.

I'm an original Israelite, that could be empowering, that could be life-giving. I know many Christians, and they're trying to search, do they have Jewish blood? You know, somehow it gives them a greater sense of identity.

So I could understand why they'd feel that way, and then how it could translate out in some circles to hostility towards the white man for what whites have done to blacks historically in America. What I don't understand, though, Hannah, as a Jewish follower of Jesus myself, I know my people's suffering through history. I know the times that we have been decimated, where people have tried to wipe us out in country after country after country. And what I don't understand is why would someone want to say, you know, we are the ones who are. Who suffered the curses of Deuteronomy 28, because those are curses for disobedience.

I can't imagine in the days of Adolf Hitler, say, or another time when Jews were being persecuted, that people would be wanting to come forward and say, Hey, I'm the real one, persecute me instead.

So, what's going on that makes people want to identify with a group that's been so persecuted through history?

Well, I mean, they believe it's in their genes, you know, based on the four fathers and um like you were mentioning, Deuteronomy chapter twenty eight, I mean, is they believe that it's like the twelve tri tribe, the twelve tribes of Israel and Um, Judah, like, with the the people who actually came here into America on the on the slave ships. And I mean, they identify with those people and they believe that that's how their ancestors got here. Right.

And like you were mentioning, them being under the curses, 'cause the contradictions come in that is where they say that they are a cursed group of people, but yet they and and they say that they were brought here for being disobedient but yet they hate the white people here. They hate the white supremacy here. But it's like, well, you blame white supremacy, but you're also saying that you did it to yourself because you were disobedient and you were worshiping other gods and you were following the ways of the other nations. And that's how you ended up here, so it wouldn't make any s sense. Yeah.

So that's what I don't really agree. I had it's just that right there didn't really sit well with me. Understand. Yep, that's clear. And and because there's a certain lifestyle that's called for, a certain discipline, way you have to live things you're supposed to do, not Do you think this has any parallels to black Islam that calls young people or people in the inner city?

Uh to live lives of discipline and puts rules on them. Most people would would run from rules, but others say, no, we need some kind of structure. Is this providing some kind of structure that wasn't there before and that's part of its appeal? I think about that because, I mean, it it can get it as far as structure, as far as like living righteously and and eating kosher foods and just you know, following the ways of the creative that they follow. I mean, that's a sense of structure, but it's like Down there.

with them believing that they are the chosen people.

Okay. in their to them, in their culture, you know, they're better than everybody. Everybody come off as very arrogant. Yeah. And then it's like it's like when they're trying to adhere to the the law, statutes and commandments to that Bible, Yet they still find themselves strugg find themselves struggling within their walk.

Because no matter how they try to structure, and I have nothing against discipline, don't get me wrong, but if they're trying to be a disciplined group of people, Yet they still kinda like veer off into the opposite direction. you know, being cruel to other people, even if other people who don't even if people outside of their culture do not understand their culture like that, but they're very, very critical towards Christians, Jews, and Jewish people, um, Even uh Muslim people 'cause they don't they believe that the Muslims uh worship a phony god. Mm-hmm. And it's like, okay, it's great that you have all this discipline and all this. I mean, you want to do what's right, but don't forget that you are still a flawed group of people too.

And you also make mistakes because nobody Is immune to nobody is exempt from making mistakes, is what I'm saying. Yeah, or the way Paul said it, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I mean, that's one reason Christians say we seek to live lives that are godly, but we know that we need a Redeemer to cleanse us and wash us. Hey, Hannah, obviously, there's a lifetime journey that many of us are on, but perhaps at some point in the future, you'll pick up the Bible, maybe through yet new eyes. and read it and discover some things about who Jesus is that'll be life-changing for you in a positive way.

But I appreciate you taking the time to share with others in book form what your experience is. The book, Hannah Spivey, Why I Abandoned the Hebrew-Israelite Religion, a memoir self-help guide. And hopefully, you'll get a lot of people to really think about issues in a non-emotional way so that they can rationally examine the evidence and come to their conclusions. I wish you the best and hope that. Jesus will be someone very special to you in the coming years.

Okay, I thank you for having me on your show. You bet. All right. Thanks so much.

Okay. Well,. There's so much more to talk about.

So many things. And obviously, hearing Hannah talk about things like kosher. You know, there's, I've got to, I've got to reach out somehow. To Hebrew Israelites in a non-hostile way and have some friendly conversations because things get pretty hostile, pretty intense pretty quickly. But we're moving towards that.

We will do that. I've got friends more and more involved in these areas trying to understand what beliefs there are. If you go to karm.org, they're accumulating more and more information there. My friend James White has been addressing these things as well.

So hopefully, there'll be more and more resources so that we can help people hear the fullness of the message of the gospel. Friends, Visit the website askdrbrown.org. You've got to check out my latest article. Is there a hidden prophecy about Obama in Luke 10:18? Check it out, askdrbrown.org.

It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. There there is video. A sickening, heartbreaking video. Prime Minister Netanyahu said it just shook him to the core of his being. Here's a Palestinian father.

Egging on his four-year-old boy. He's egging on the four-year-old boy, and the goal is to try to get. The uh Israeli soldiers to shoot him. To shoot him. Yeah, yeah.

This is what the father is doing. Obviously, to provoke a confrontation. Obviously, Hating Israel. And hating the Israelis more than he loves his own son.

Now, Palestinian Authority, when they released it, they're showing that even a four-year-old boy knows you can't make peace with the Israelis. Even a four-year-old boy understands that you don't shake their hands. Whereas the actual video, the soldiers reach out, as a little boy, they reach out, and basically it's a little high-five handshake. That got edited out by the Palestinian Authority. But listen to what Prime Minister Netanyahu had to say about this.

Sadly, this father's crime is not an isolated example. In Gaza, Hamas runs summer camps that teach children to value death over life, suicide, kindergarten camps. The Palestinian Ministry of Education in Ramallah recently organized an event for students, to honor terrorists who murdered three civilians. Two weeks ago, Palestinian Authority's official newspaper. Praise teenage terrorists.

and wrote that Death as a martyr? Is the path to excellence and greatness. That's a direct quote. Palestinian and Israeli children deserve better. They deserve to live.

They deserve to live in peace. Children are not canon fodder. They're the most precious things in the world. They're the most precious things we have. Yeah, what's so tragic?

I've seen the school plays, the Palestinian Authority or Gaza, the school plays where the children are celebrating martyrdom. I've seen the little girl holding a knife and the father's interviewing her, what do you want to do? Precious little girl, kill a Jew. This stuff is poured into them in their earliest days. And wasn't it Goldmair who said something to the effect that peace will come when the Arabs love their children more than they hate the Jews?

When you are trying to provoke someone to shoot your own child so that you cannot have an incident on film. That that shows the hatred. For others is greater than the love for your own kids. One more telling comment from Prime Minister Netanyahu. And today I appeal to every father and mother around the world.

I ask you to join me. in calling for an end to this abuse of children. The Palestinian leadership must stop encouraging children to kill. They must stop encouraging Palestinian parents to call for the death of their own children. It's horrendous.

Peace begins with respect. If parents don't respect their own children's lives, how will they respect the lives of their neighbours? We must love all children. They should never be pushed to violence or hate. Join me in educating all children, For peace.

I cannot Imagine that anyone who truly loves their children would not say, Yes, let's educate our children for peace, let's educate our children to respect others, let's educate our children not to hate, let's educate our children not to want to kill each other, but rather learn to live side by side. And yet, the hatred against Israel is so great, the propaganda against the state of Israel is so great. That many Palestinians will see that and differ with what the Prime Minister is saying and said, no, we will train our children to hate you until we wipe you off the map. These are very, very deep issues. When children become pawns in them, that is a massive, massive problem.

We will be right back on Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. Around the new sign, shake the new sign, change the world, change the world. Oh, God of burning, cleansing flame, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks so much for joining us on this Thorly Jewish Thursday. This is Michael Brown.

Delighted to be with you. 866-34TRUTH. Number to call 866-3487-884. Do you have a Jewish-related question? Do you have a Hebrew-related question?

Do you have a question relating to Israel and the Middle East? Do you have a question relating to radical Islam? Give us a call, 866-34TRUTH. I wrote an article. Last night, this is kind of old news, but I never addressed it in writing.

And I was asked about it again yesterday. I thought, you know what? I'm going to reply to that. And it's the question of in Luke 10, 18 when Jesus says, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Is there a hidden prophecy about President Barack Obama, associating him with Satan and therefore the Antichrist.

No, no, no, no, no Yeah. Of course not. Complete and utter nonsense. It doesn't work in Hebrew and it doesn't work in Aramaic. And more importantly, as Jesus is speaking to his disciples, he's not giving secret coded message in Hebrew or Aramaic to be deciphered a millennia later.

That would have no relevance or meaning to people then? Of course not. Someone suggested, and I end my article with this: that if you take President Barack Obama. And rearrange the letters, you end up with an Arab-backed imposter. Oh, let's see, it's hidden.

No, it's not hidden. That's just playing with letters. That's all that is.

So, where do people get this notion from? That when Jesus said, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven, that the original Hebrew or Aramaic. Was actually speaking of Barack Obama. It is complete and utter nonsense. But let me break it down for you, and then you can read the article in full.

And if you had any friends that actually held to that wrong, nonsensical teaching, you can refer them to my article at ask Dr. Brown, ASKDRBrown.org.

Okay, first, we're told that even though the words we have of Jesus here in Luke 10 are recorded in Greek, as Luke wrote his gospel, they're actually originally Hebrew or Aramaic. That would be accurate. Jesus would have been most likely teaching in Aramaic, possibly Hebrew, but most likely teaching in Aramaic to his disciples. And some of them say, well, Aramaic is an older form of Hebrew. No, Aramaic and Hebrew are sister languages, just like Italian and Spanish are sister languages.

They're close sister languages, but they are distinct Semitic languages.

So Jesus was either speaking in Aramaic or Hebrew. But in this case, the key words are the same, so we'll just leave it.

So I saw him fall like lightning from heaven. What's the Hebrew word for lightning? Barak. Oh, there you go. It's the same in Aramaic, basically.

Barack, well, see, there you have a reference to Barack about. No, no, no, hang on. Just because you have a word for lightning. That sounds the same as the name of the president doesn't mean Jesus is talking about that.

Okay, I hope you can understand that. The whole thing unravels momentarily, anyway. But. The Hebrew for Barak, it ends with the letter Kof in the Hebrew, okay? Barak.

And it has more of a sound in Arabic. and it would have an ancient Hebrew or Aramaic. The word for bless, the root for bless is barak. Uh Baruch blessed, Mivarach, blessed. Hasnimubarak, that is blessed.

That's the same word in the Semitic languages in Hebrew or Aramaic or Arabic. And it's very likely that the name Barak is in Barack Obama comes from that root to bless, which is a separate root. This ends in a kaf and would be pronounced differently than Barak lightning, which ends with a kof. They may seem very similar in English, but they're two distinctly different roots in Hebrew or Aramaic or Arabic.

So that's the first thing that in all likelihood the word is a totally different word, a totally different root anyway. Anyway. But some have argued that the name Barak Does not come from the root to bless, but rather from burak, which was the name of Muhammad's mythical steed. That would fly him around to different places and occurs elsewhere in Islamic folklore, and that that's what he's named after. Barak was the name of Muhammad's mythical steed, and therefore it comes from that same root relates to lightning.

So let's just say for argument's sake, let's just say for a moment, for argument's sake, that that word, Barak lightning, is related to the name Barak, as in Barack Obama, okay? Let's just Say that for argument's sake. Where do you get Obama from? You don't. It's not there.

Jesus is referring to Isaiah 14:12, where this lofty being who decided he was going to be like the Most High is cast down. And it says, How are you fallen from heaven? Oh hellel. Day store. Helel ben Shachar, Deistar, son of the dawn.

When the Latin translator, when Jerome translated that into Latin, he translated Helel, Ben-Shachar, this shining one, son of the dawn, with Lucifer, which is light-bearer in Latin, which we know as Lucifer. Hence, if you look in the King James, it will make reference to Lucifer there. But the Hebrew is just speaking of light-bearer. Jesus says, How are you fallen? Jesus says, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven, which is alluding back to Isaiah 14:12.

Are you with me so far? How are you falling from heaven, O day star, son of the dawn? And it could well be referring to Satan's fall. Jesus says, I saw that. Either I saw that happen before the world was created or when Satan was cast down, or I saw that happening in the spirit as you were going out driving out demons.

That's what his disciples were doing. I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. But from heaven is Meshamaim. Meshemaim. That's from heaven.

So, how do you get Obama from Ishamaim? You don't. You say, what does Obama mean? Obama means nothing in Hebrew. There's no such thing as Obama.

You do have a word bama. And bama can mean a hill. It can refer to the back of something. or high place.

So when the Israelites offered sacrifices to other gods or sacrifices to Yahweh in unauthorized places, they often offered them on the high places.

Okay?

So Bama is high place.

So someone said, yeah, that's what he was actually saying, that I saw Satan fall like lightning from a high place, and that's Balma. No, no. Bama in itself is not referring to heavenly heights. If it was referring to heavenly heights, it would have to be like on the back of the clouds. And Bama is just back there, the heights of the clouds, as in Isaiah 14:14.

All right. The word itself doesn't mean high place like heaven or sky. It doesn't mean that, it means hill.

So, when they were offering up sacrifices on high places, that's what was going on. Jesus didn't say, I saw Satan fall like lightning from a hill. Lightning doesn't fall from a hill. I mean, this stuff is just such utter bogus nonsense. But with the hope of putting to rest this internet myth once and for all, I'll keep going another moment.

Where do you get the O from?

Well, well. Actually. Actually. You have u in Hebrew, which is another form of and.

So we're told in some forms that you have the ooh before Bama, so Barak U Bama. Yeah. Please. And for those that don't know, this is my field, my doctorates in Near Eastern Languages and Literatures from NYU. E even my bachelor's is in Hebrew.

I mean this is this is so ridiculously bogus. There are ten trillion things you can find in the Bible that are more accurate than this, okay? Even this idea of taking the words President Barack Obama and rearranging the English letters to an Arab-backed imposter that's got boring To commend it than this nonsense, but it's all it is all nonsense. Is that clear?

So, if you want to reconstruct this, and Jesus said this originally, we'll make it Hebrew, okay? Which is less likely than Aramaic, but just for argument's sake. What he would have had to say is I saw Satan like lightning and a high place. That's what it would be.

Okay. It is not what Jesus said. Jesus didn't say, I saw Satan fall like lightning in a high place. No, no, he said I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven, which is distinct and different. Like Barack?

Uh uh Mehshemiam or Meheshemaiim. Lightning from heaven. The fact that this actually got some credibility and that people were naï enough to say, Jesus secretly prophesied about Barack Obama being the Antichrist in here. It's so bogus. It is so ridiculously, idiotically bogus.

The Bible is not about that. The Bible tells us the characteristics of Antichrist. Oh, I remember someone telling me years ago, Ronald Wilson Reagan, the Antichrist. Look, he's got three names, each with six letters: six, six, six. That's actually less bogus than this one, but they're all completely bogus.

So, how about reading the Bible for what it says and what it means and what it conveys and acting on that? I think that would be good. Oh, and by the way, it tells us to pray for our leaders. How about praying for President Obama? We'll be right back.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Welcome back to Thoroughly Jewish. Thursday. 866-34-TRUTH. It is a delight to be with you. And want to take your Jewish-related calls.

We'll go to Karen in Boston, Massachusetts. Welcome to the line of fire. Thank you. Dr. Brown.

I have a question. Hello? Go ahead. I have a question about Romans eleven twenty six. where it says that all Israel will be saved.

Um How do you interpret that? Certainly. All Israel shall be saved in Romans 11.26 follows immediately on the heels of Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in in Romans 11.25. Obviously, those who are hardened in 1125 are those who were saved in 1126. I understand this, that at the end of the age, there will be a national turning of Israel, a national turning of the Jewish people.

And that although not every Jewish person in the world will be saved, there will be massive national repentance and the salvation of Israel as a nation. I do not believe that in any way you can refer it to the church as a whole, Jew and Gentile together. I do not believe that you can refer it simply to the accumulation of the remnant of Jewish people through the centuries and say, okay, Jews who've been saved through the centuries, that's all Israel. It's a climactic act at the end of the age. Zechariah 12 speaks of it where there's a spirit of repentance poured out on the people of Judah and Jerusalem.

Jesus says he will not return until the Jewish Jerusalem welcomes him back in Matthew 23. Peter says that Jewish repentance is the key for the return of the Messiah in Acts the third chapter.

So I understand Romans 11, 26, all Israel, meaning that although there's only a remnant that's saved today, people like me, and in Paul's day, people like Paul and Peter, at the end of the age, there will be a national turning of the Jewish people, and all Israel will be saved.

So um the fullness of the Gentiles is the end of the age? Fullness of the Gentiles. Yes, certainly this is talking about the culmination of the ages. Paul continues. He says that the Redeemer will come from Zion and will Will respond to those who turn away from iniquity in Jacob.

So, the fullness of the Gentiles is obviously the end of the harvest. Revelation in the seventh chapter: a multitude that no one can number of Gentiles from every tribe and nation around the world.

So, for sure. For sure. The fullness of the Gentiles is something that takes place at the end of the age, the fullness of the Spirit being poured out.

Some would even say the Gentile world coming to its full level of iniquity. But the fullness of the Gentiles and all Israel will be saved. These are things that take place at the end of the age. We are not yet there. This has not yet happened.

Okay, thank you very much. You are very welcome. Thank you for the call. 866-34TRUTH. If you will.

Go through Romans 9, 10, and 11. And just read it through. And ask yourself each time Paul references Israel, who is he talking about? Every time he references Israel or the Israelites, who's he talking about? In my view, it becomes indisputably clear.

what the subject matter is. Especially when you go right up to Romans 11:28, when he says that right now. uh the Jewish people are enemies for the gospel. But But they're beloved. For the sake of the fathers, Romans 11:29, for the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.

So Paul is brokenhearted. It's the beginning of the chapter. For the lostness of his people. He could wish that he himself was cut off. Cut off from the Messiah.

If That would bring mercy to his own people. And he says that they. have right now the promises. that the covenant promises are theirs. He doesn't say were theirs, but are theirs.

theirs okay Uh so He makes that clear, but does it mean God's word is fail? And he says, no, verse 6, it is not as though the word of God has failed. for not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel. And not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but through Isaac shall your offspring be named. This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

So he's saying that within Israel, within the nation of Israel. there is a true Israel. Or a spiritual Israel, or a believing Israel, that is the remnant, the remnant of Jews who believe.

So he now uses Israel in a special sense, but thereafter. Every single time he says Israel, and you count ten times every single time he says Israel. or Israelite. Through the rest of Romans 9, into Romans 10, into Romans 11, he's speaking of the nation as a whole. the nation as a whole, over and over and over and over.

So he he summarizes things by saying, for example, Romans 9.30, what shall we say then, that Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it? That is, a righteousness that is by faith. But that Israel, who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness, did not succeed in reaching that law. Who does he mean by Israel there? The nation as a whole.

He's not speaking of the Israel within Israel. And then 10.1, my heart's desire and prayer to God for them, who the Israelites is that they may be saved. And he goes on, we'll jump ahead later in the 10th chapter. Uh of Israel. 1021 of Israel, God says.

All day long have I held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.

So who's he talking about when he says Israel? He's talking about the nation as A hole. The nation as a whole. And he talks about how the nation as a whole is under judgment, and yet there is a remnant that believes. And then he says in Romans 11.

12.

Now, if their trespass means riches for the world and their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean?

So he's distinguishing Israel from the Gentiles. Verse 13, now I'm speaking to you Gentiles. He doesn't call Gentiles spiritual Jews. I'm speaking to you Gentiles. In as much then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry in order to somehow make my fellow Jews jealous and thus save some of them.

For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? Then he goes on to say, verse 25, I don't want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers. Lest you become arrogant. Ignorance would lead to arrogance. A partial hardening has come upon Israel.

Upon whom? The nation is all. A partial hardening has come upon them. It's not on the entire nation. It's not for all time.

Until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way, All Israel will be saved, either provoked by the example of the fullness of the Gentiles or on the heels of the fullness of the Gentiles. All Israel, as F.F. Bruce says, it's impossible to separate all Israel here in verse 26 from the hardened Israel in verse 25. This will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.

The deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob. That is what scripture teaches. And then, all Israel being saved is a promise of national salvation. Not every Jew who's ever lived. But an end time turning, I long to see that day, and we sow seeds towards that.

Every day of our lives to see Jewish people come to faith. Hey, friends, have you signed up yet for our Israel trip? Been thinking about it, putting away the money, budgeting out. Hey, get your deposit in, get your down payment in, and trust God for everything else to work out as you go. And you will have the trip of your life, February 25th to March 6th.

Go to ask Dr. Brown, A-S-K-D-R-Brown, for more. My bottom line today: don't look for secret coded meanings of the Hebrew that no one's ever discovered. Look at what the word says. Do it, and you'll be healed.

You know, I've got about 400 million new reasons why I'm so grieved over America's deal with Iran.

Okay. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth.

That's 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Do you have a Jewish-related question, a Hebrew-related question? Messianic prophecy type of question.

Question about Israel and the Middle East. Give me a call, even an Islamic-related question. It's Thurley Jewish Thursday. We focus on these issues. This is Michael Brown.

Welcome to the broadcast: 866-34 TRUTH, 866-348-7884. By the way, By the way, I was talking to someone about this the other day, and they had no idea that this was part of my background, but. Brown was not the original name of my ancestors. We don't know what it was. We've had some check and really get involved, trying to find out more, but we never knew.

My dad wasn't sure. His brothers weren't sure. They're all deceased now. My cousins, as far as I know, don't know. But we did come from Russia.

That we know in terms of on my father's side. We did come from Russia, Russian Jews. My mother was from England, English Jewish family, but What's clear is that the name Brown was not the original name. It was shortened at presumably at Ellis Island. As the immigrants came in, longer names were sometimes shortened.

I was talking to an ultra-Orthodox Jewish man coming back from India one time. We were on a flight together from Holland to the States, and I mentioned, yeah, my name Brown doesn't sound like the most Jewish name. He said, Oh, there are a bunch of Browns on my block, ultra-Orthodox Jewish area.

So they got shortened. We don't know from what, but we do know they got shortened. There is a famous scholar, probably deceased now, but he was a scholar of what's called Karaite literature. These were Jews who were very prominent. There's a very small remnant of them today, but very prominent a thousand plus years ago.

They were religious Jews, but they claimed that the Bible was the sole authority. They rejected rabbinic tradition. They're called Karaites. And one of the leading scholars in the world on this was a Russian scholar whose last name was Namoy. N E M O Y N O Y.

And What I was told by someone who tended to have very, very accurate information. Was that when he was a boy, that he witnessed soldiers killing a man. in cold blood. And were executing him, and he was so traumatized that after that he was unable to speak. If he could possibly, through great effort, get words up, but he was so traumatized the rest of his life he was unable to speak.

And when he was coming into Ellis Island, and he was asked for his name. The Russian man behind him said, he's namoy, he's dumb, he can't speak, which is what the the word means in Russian. and that became his name. and that's how the whole world knew him without knowing the background to it.

Well, the story with with would have been my grandparents coming over from Russia is a story that I never got to uh hear first hand. And somehow For whatever reason.

Something that my father and his brothers didn't seek to find out from their parents. What was our name originally? Because they just grew up as brown and thought it was it, and perhaps the goal was to be as much part of the culture as possible, and that name fit in better. I don't know. But for whatever puts forth, as it's thoroughly Jewish Thursday, you think, Brown is not the most Jewish Saturday name.

It's not, and it was shortened from something. We don't know what, and I don't know exactly where we came from in Russia. One day I'd like to find out, but that's all I know. All right, listen, we're going to come back, go right to your questions. We've got a bunch of A bunch of Jewish-Israeli news, some Islamic news, we'll get to as well, right here on the line of fire.

Hallelujah. Shake the nation. Change the world. Oh God of burning, cleansing flame. Send the fire.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. See?

Thank you for joining us on this Thursday Jewish Thursday. Michael Brown here, 866-34Truth. Let us go right to the phones. We'll start in Washington, D.C. with David.

Welcome to the line of fire. Thank you. How you doing today? Doing well, thanks. My my question is this.

One of the basic tenets of the uh the the Hebrew Israelites of that Um Salvation was not extended to the Gentiles, and this comes from when Christ says, I did not come before the lost sheep of Israel.

So my first question is How it or or does Christ take na or um Deal with this. salvation to Gentiles during his earthly ministry. And my second question is How come Gentiles By and large, are excluded in Revelations. Revelations kind of deals more with Um Israel directly and the twelve tribes of Israel. Yeah, I appreciate the questions.

The first thing is That Jesus in the Gospels and the teaching that continues into the rest of the New Testament is clearly a salvation for the whole world. He comes first and foremost to the people of Israel because that's where the mission begins. They're the ones that have to receive him and make him known. They're the ones that have been prepared for the Messiah so they receive him and make him known. But even in his earthly ministry, he's reaching out to Gentiles all the time.

So Matthew 10, he's sending out his disciples on a specific mission and saying, hey, I'm just here for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Concentrate on them when you go out. But that's Matthew 10. Matthew 8 already, you have the healing of the centurion servant, and he says, many will come from the east and the west. And will sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, whereas the children of the kingdom, meaning the people of Israel, many of them will be cast out.

And he commends the great faith of the Gentile there. And then in Matthew the 15th chapter, where dispute arises about eating with unwashed hands, what is happening there? Jesus, then in that chapter, It makes plain that what you eat doesn't follow you, what goes into your mouth because it passes out of your system, it's what comes out of your heart. And he immediately goes from there, travels like a day's journey into Syraphoenicia, and he heals the child, the daughter of a Gentile woman, and then comes back. That's the only thing he does is heal that woman and commands her great faith.

And that's first, he's showing the food laws because that's what kept Israel separate from the nations. And he's showing that there's something deeper than that. And then he kind of puts it into action by going and healing this Gentile woman's daughter. And then the great commission that he gives is go into all the nations, make disciples of all the nations. And then John 3: God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son.

So you have this unfolding now. And then, of course, in the book of Acts, they take the gospel to all peoples.

So he had a specific focus in terms of why he was here. And that was to raise up disciples among his own people and to give the nation of Israel the opportunity to receive their long-awaited Messiah. Once that was done, now the floodgates are open for the message to go to the entire world. As for the book of Revelation, There are events that focus on the land of Israel, and there is some. Mention of the people of Israel, but Revelation the seventh chapter speaks of a multitude that no one could number.

From every tribe and language. And it describes it every possible way, and no one can number. Revelation at one point talks about an army of 200 million, and yet it says this is a number that no one can count, and that's among the Gentiles, and that's in distinction from the 12,000 from each tribe of Israel earlier in Revelation 7, which I take as representing the fullness of the people of Israel.

So for sure, it's a message for all nations. Revelation 22 says that the kings of the nations, the kings of the nations will bring their glory into the new Jerusalem.

So it's definitely for all people there. It speaks most plainly of the harvest of all nations more plainly than anywhere else in the Bible.

So again, it's one of the exclusivistic errors of the Hebrew Israelites, which is another tragic deception of that group.

Okay. Well thanks for the answer. Yeah, and the biggest thing, David, to understand. Is that God's purpose for Israel was to be a light to the nations? That's the whole thing.

In other words, he chose them out so that they could make him known to the whole world, declare his glory among the nations, so the whole world could find out about the salvation of the Lord.

So it turns things completely upside down. But thank you very much. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Well, you know, the other thing.

that I was going to say, because I I get in I see these I see people from this group a lot. Um and one of the one of the things they say about nations is that that's tended to mean Those who were uh They were Jewish by As of Of being dispersed. Mm. Um and I mean obviously you can, you know, beat a bad whore. they're stuck in their ways.

But um I didn't know if maybe that's there's Reconciliation there, or that I mean, or that? No, no, look, when you look at Genesis 12, when God chooses Abram, through him, all the families of the earth will be blessed.

Okay. You don't even have a people of Israel yet. But through Abram's seed, all the families of the earth will be blessed. That's repeated. And then when you get to Genesis 49, the chosen ruler that will come from Judah, to him will be the obedience of the nations.

So that is talking external to Israel. And then in the days of David, no one's been scattered yet. You've got the United Kingdom under David. And you have this in 1 Chronicles and in Psalm 105. declare his glory among the nations.

So who are the nations then? It's only one possible group. It's the others. It's those on the outside, outside of Israel.

So basically, the whole system is completely unbiblical, the Hebrew-Israelite system. It turns truth completely on its head. And with each, you know, when you tell a lie, then you have to add another lie to cover up that lie.

So, when you've got this seriously erroneous theology, you have to keep heaping up one error after another, after another, after another on top of it, unfortunately.

So, the problem is, as I'm trying to look at this more and look maybe to set up some good debates with some of their leaders, the problem is not to be on the side of truth here. That's easy. The problem is to convince people who are caught up in the error. I remember one time I was riding the the subway from Long Island well, from from the edge of Queens, New York into Manhattan. And There was a particular group that would get on.

They were part of what I think was called the Ansar Alam Mosque. They had a mixture of Islam. They used the Bible some, and then they had the teaching of their own leader. They dressed kind of a combination of military fatigues and Islamic outfits. They taught that the white man was the manifestation of Satan.

And they had Hispanics and blacks among them. And they'd come on the subway, they'd give a brief presentation, and they try to raise funds for, quote, children's education. And this one particular time, I got into an extended conversation. They got on the subway ride, and it happened to be a long ride between stops on this one particular train. And I was on my way into NYU, getting my doctorate in Semitic studies, and we end up debating about the Hebrew language and the Arabic language and Semitic languages.

And there was a group of young men surrounding them. They all happened to be people of color. And I've got this stuff. I so happened to have manuscripts in my briefcase as I was on my way into study. You know, it was in the 80s, the pre-computer days.

So I've got all this stuff there. I've got text. I'm going to read them in the original languages. It's my field. And every point they're making, I'm answering.

And the young guys there, they're kind of laughing and smiling. And I thought, wow. They're really with me. They really, really understand because I'm demolishing these guys' arguments with facts. And when they got off the train, when it stopped, the young man applauded them.

And I thought they were cheering for them, not for me. And I realized it's got nothing to do with color here.

Okay, you could switch the colors, that's not the issue. But when you are sympathetic to a particular group. It's very difficult, whatever the group is, any side. to get people to hear things rationally. And that's what I'm praying for.

Wisdom to expose error in such a way that the light goes on for those who are caught in deception. And ultimately, it's a spiritual battle as well, because you give truth and facts.

Someone comes up with something completely bogus. We have to say politically. You know what I'm saying? That I'm for this candidate, you're for another candidate, and we see the whole world through kind of a partial vision. And that's the challenge.

So, we've got to pray for people to be delivered from bondage. And then, somehow, those who are seeking truth are open, at least, that the light will go on for them. Hey, David, got to run, but thank you for the questions. And may the Lord use you with wisdom as you reach out and witness. Thank you.

All right, 866-34TRUTH. We will be right back. And I want to go right back to the phones, take your Jewish-related questions on this thoroughly Jewish. Jewish Thursday. If you didn't hear another apparent Islamic terror attack, this time in London, a Somali man stabbed to death an American woman and stabbed some others crying out, Allahu Akbar.

According to the reports, And you've got now a Muslim mayor. in London. Telling everyone, hey, stay calm. Of course, stay calm, but This is time to take action as well. We'll be right back.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Shout, shout out, jump, and get the. I don't know. The taste of the righteous of the Lord. Welcome to Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. Michael Brown, thank you, Paul Wilber, for singing shouts of joy 866-3666.

Three for truth. Let us go to Mooresville, North Carolina. Tim, welcome to the line of fire. Dr. Brown, thank you for having me on.

You're very welcome.

Okay, I have a logical syllogism about the deity of Christ, and I'd like you to try to give me some insight on how to answer a Jewish believer.

Okay, so premise number one is: only God can do something, only God can do X, the variable. Jesus did X. Therefore, Jesus is God.

So why would that not work? to convince a Jewish believer. And the X could be forgive sins. create things A number of different things. Why would that not work, in your opinion?

Sure. Obviously, you could say God alone is the Savior, we have no other Savior but God.

So if Jesus saves, then He must be God. But there's a more fundamental problem that would arise. I remember a rabbi asking me when I was a fairly new believer. saying to me, could God cease to exist? And I said, Well, Psalm 90: from everlasting to everlasting, you are God by nature, He's eternal.

He said, Correct. By nature he's eternal, and by nature he's not a man. Numbers 23, 1 Samuel 15, God is not a man.

So if the syllogism ends with something that would be considered impossible to a Jewish person and a violation of the nature of God, that would therefore throw out the syllogism. That would be the first thing. The second thing would be they'd say that's according to your beliefs. According to your beliefs, he forgives sins. According to your beliefs, he saves.

According to your beliefs, he does these things. That's another reason why he's an imposter, why we can't trust the New Testament, because they're attributing things to him that only God can do.

So they would reject it. They would reject the witness of the New Testament. They would reject the representation of his words. And if in fact he did things that only God can do, then they would say that all the more does that disqualify him and disqualify the New Testament.

So you'd have to overcome all those other issues. And I would normally approach it in terms of using evidence from the Hebrew scriptures that lay out why Jesus is the Messiah, and evidence from the Hebrew scriptures that lay out. How God can make Himself known in human form. I also avoid just the simple statement, Jesus is God, because to a Jewish person, that would mean that God in heaven ceased to be God. And came down among us like one of the Greek gods, came down in human form and lived among us.

Whereas we would say that God is complex in his unity. That he sits enthroned in the heaven, fills the universe with his presence, and yet can tabernacle among us. That's why John 1 is so nuanced. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And then the Word became flesh, as opposed to God became flesh, which could be more readily misunderstood.

So I appreciate where you're going with this, but from a Jewish perspective, these would be some of the objections that would come up. All right, I appreciate it. Thanks a lot. You are very welcome. Eight six six three four truth.

Before I go back to the phones. At the top of the hour, I mentioned that I've got 400 million more reasons to be grieved over America's deal with Iran. And the fact that now Cash in all different currencies is video evidence of this four hundred million dollars. Being delivered to Iran as American prisoners are being released, but were being told by the White House: no, no, no, this was not ransom payment. I just More evidence of the absurdity of this deal that was made with Iran.

In that sense, in that area, I agree with Donald Trump, who said that it's the worst deal he's ever seen. And it's not just hundreds of billions, it's billions of dollars that are going into Iranian hands. And these monies are going to be used not just to rebuild their economy. That they're going to be used for terrorism. And Iran's as much as said so.

We're going to do what we've done before. and ultimately be used for nuclear proliferation.

So we'll come to some of the White House comments on that in a little while. First, we go back to the phones in Washington, D.C. Damon, welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Dr. Burr, how you doing?

Doing well, thanks. Yes, sir. I got a question about the origin of the original Jews. Yes. I'm sorry, I'm not asking about any type of ethnic supremacy or or just basic fa factual factual truth.

Mm-hmm. I guess first I'll tell you I do identify with price and the example of the experience, the example of the comprehensive line renewal and the power of it. I've listened to your show a long time, and so it's a little intimidating asking you questions because you've done a lot of studies and and you speak on what you believe is fat. And before I ask the question, I don't want any disrespect to the present-day Jewish peoples or or the history of their struggles. Um, but back to Hannah and the Hebrew Israelite.

I'm not a Hebrew Israelite, um, um, personally. I just want to ask you, because you've done a lot of the studies, is there any factual evidence That the ancient Jews may have left. uh the the the the um Jewish uh I'll say Palestine and Jerusalem, they left melanated and possibly came back non-melanated. Is there any? Yeah.

That may be why people may think they're originally Hebrew Israelites because they may have done some factual studies. That's a question that I would have for you. Yes, and Damon, maybe another time we can chat about your view of who Jesus is. But first, thanks for your graciousness and respect and humility in asking the question and even qualifying it as you did. I truly respect that and honor that.

According to everything I've read. and study. Uh there there is not Evidence for the original Israelites being, if you said melanated, let's say black, certainly darker skinned than me as a Caucasian. But lighter skin than an African, from everything I can tell. When you have the fact that Paul was mistaken for an Egyptian terrorist in Acts the 21st chapter, some say, well, that would mean that Paul was black.

No, the people of Egypt are not primarily black, they are darker skinned. But if you'll look, you can see ancient depictions from Egypt where the Nubian slaves. Yeah. And the Egyptians were of a lighter color, again, not Caucasian, but commonly what you would see in the Middle East today. There's certainly some mixture of black blood among the ancient Israelites, and there's certainly black characters that occur in the Bible.

But no, I see no evidence of that. And by the way, I would encourage every white listener. To imagine Jesus being black. and to imagine Paul being black and to imagine Moses being black. And then to imagine them being Asian.

And then, for a black man or woman to imagine them being white or Asian, in other words, that we each put ourselves in one another's shoes. And do not try to get caught up with a racial identification or a skin color identification as our primary way of relating to the Lord. The way that you would explain people like me. Caucasian Jews is that there was a lot of intermarriage along the way. But this was intermarriage where Europeans and others, people of Caucasian ethnicity or skin color, that they married into the Jewish people and continued among them.

And you've got intermarriage in different countries.

So you have Jews in Africa, you have Jews in Egypt. But I keep looking at this to see: is there any evidence for any of these positions? But again, from everything I can see and from ancient inscriptions where you actually have depictions and things like that. you're looking at a Middle Eastern people darker than Caucasian, lighter than African. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr.

Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

I'm looking at a very interesting document here on Thorne Jewish Thursday. Jewish Telegraph Agency JTA reports Yesterday, Black Lives Matter platform says Israel an apartheid state committing Genocide. Am I surprised to see that? No, I'm not surprised at all. There is somewhat of a radical ideology among many in the Black Lives Matter movement, and there is the siding with the victim to the point of rewriting history or reality in certain points, and that's what is happening here.

In this official platform statement, according to the platform, quote, Israel is an apartheid state with over 50 laws on the books that sanction discrimination against the Palestinian people. The platform claims Palestinian property is routinely bulldozed to make way for illegal Israeli settlements. That Israeli soldiers regularly arrest and detain Palestinians as young as four years old without due process. Everyday Palestinians are forced to walk through military checkpoints along the U.S.-funded apartheid wall. I mean, you couldn't even get better.

Anti-Israel talking points, if you tried. I mean, this is all standard embrace of propaganda. I'd encourage Black Lives Matter leaders to go on a tour of both sides in Israel. And to spend time with Israelis and spend time with Palestinians, and sit and listen. and find out a bit more of the history.

And maybe visit some of the hospitals for the victims of radical Islamic terror in the Middle East. And then see exactly who is who and what is what in the conflict. 866-34-TRUTH. If you've got a Jewish-related question, before I go to the phones, let's go to clip number 10. This is White House spokesman Josh Ernest yesterday explaining why the US payment of $400 million to Iran was $400 million.

And this isn't cash. Was not any type of a ransom. Clip number 10.

Well first of all it's a Rodian money. And I think what is true from all of the money that Iran has received since January. Including from sanctions relief, which actually, as we know, is more than $400 billion. It's much smaller than the hundreds of billions of dollars that critics of the deal predicted, but we can get to that in a little bit too. The analysis that We done.

Okay. uh confirms what we predicted, is that largely that money was spent for to address the dire economic condition of the Nation of Iran. The President was quite forward-leaning in advance of the nuclear deal even being completed in acknowledging that we know that Iran supports. terrorism. We know that Iran supports uh Hezbollah and the Assad regime.

And it certainly is possible that some of the money that Iran has is being used for those purposes too. Mm. Oh yeah, yeah, we know that we are going to be funding terror. We know. We know in giving Iran this money, this was basically said, we know that we will be involved in funding terror and a lot of it against Israel.

That there'll be Jewish blood. And there'll be Arab blood, and Muslim blood, and other blood on our hands as we finance terror in Iran. That's what it comes down to. Yikes. And yeah, we know there's more money than this.

The $400 million, why in cash? What I read, I can't verify this, was so that the Iranians could say, hey, look, look at the good deal we're getting as we're releasing these Americans. Look at the good deal we're making. One more clip, clip number 11, as Josh Jones continues to speak. That's precisely why this administration on the front end has been deepening our engagement with our partners in the Middle East to counter those activities, to more effectively interdict.

Illicit materials that could be used to support Iran's ballistic missile program to more effectively. strengthen the defenses of our partners. Uh to counter. Iran's nefarious activities. This is insane.

You're gonna help them build a nuclear bomb? Just give them a little time to do it. And you're gonna help underwrite their terrorism? And then do our best to work with our partners against that terrorism. That's insane.

Why? Why make this kind of deal? We'll be right back with your calls. Hey, this is Michael Brown. I want to invite you to join me for our second ever trip to Israel, February 25th through March 6th, 2017.

This is a great opportunity I get to interact with you, our radio listening audience, and our ministry partners as we experience the land of Israel together and it will be a life-changer. We've got a great price on the trip. And if you're one of our monthly supporters or torch bearers, you're eligible to receive a special discount for this once-in-a-lifetime experience. Space is limited, and we're accepting applications on a first-come, first-served basis. For more information on the trip to secure your spot, go to askdrbrown.org, click on the Israel banner, or call our office at 704-782-3760.

Give us strength to always do what's right. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks for joining us on Thurley Jewish Thursday, and I do hope to see you in Israel next year. Be sure to go to the website askdrbrown.org and sign up. It'll be a trip of a lifetime.

So unique in that we go to the great historic sites, the key sites that everyone wants to see. We also connect with Jewish believers in the land, Arab believers. You get to sit in on live radio shows that we do and have meals together. It's just a spectacular time, life-changing, and a great deal on top of it. For more info, ask drbrown.org, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org.

All right, let's go over to Charlotte, North Carolina. Greg, welcome to the line of fire. Good evening, Dr. Brown. Shalom to you.

Shalom. I am a black Jew, and we get ridiculed a lot for saying that there were black Jews in the Bible. And I just wanted to clear up a couple of things. In the Song of Solomon, it says Solomon, he says it in his own words: Don't fear me because I am black.

So he was a black Jew, which was the son of David. No, no, no, great, great, great. Just one second. If you're gonna quote scripture, you gotta quote it accurately. You say that was Solomon speaking?

Mm-hmm. Okay. You're sure it wasn't the woman speaking? No, it was Solomon. You're sure of that?

I'm positive of that. Uh-huh. All right. So, uh do you want to draw me to the particular verse? I think it's Saul of Solomon, verse 115.

He says, don't look down on me because I am black. And us as black Jews, we get ridiculed a lot by Christians and Jewish of not our relation of our I want to say race. Right, right, but you're so you're right, you're you're talking uh you're you're talking about verse six All right, do not gaze at me because I'm dark, because the sun has looked upon me. My mother's sons were angry with me, they made me keeper of the vineyards, but my own vineyard I have not kept. That's the woman speaking there.

Well, okay, then another point I want to bring out that there is black people that are Jewish is how could Abraham, I mean, not Abraham, how could Moses leaders um chosen as Pharaoh's son if he wasn't of color. And if he was of color, how could he know that his people which were the chosen people of Israel the same color as him? Yeah, Greg, do you know who the Nubians were? Have you ever heard of the Nubians? Yes.

They were black slaves in Egypt. And if you ever see a painting from ancient Egypt, the Nubians are black. I have been to the pyramid right now.

Okay, so the Nubians are black, and the Egyptians are of a lighter color, just like in Egypt today.

So, so, so, so that's what I'm that's that's the point I'm trying to bring up to you, Dr. Brown. If the slaves were black, he wanted his people to go. Let my people. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, the Nubian no, here's the point.

The Nubian on the pyramid, but great, great, great, great. The Nubian the Nubians were not the Israelites. The Nubians were in Egypt then. Excuse me? How could Jesus hide in Egypt?

Because he was a Middle Eastern man. He was lighter than you and darker than me. He was a Middle Eastern man, just like the Egyptians today. The Egyptians today are not. That can't be true that he was a Middle Eastern man if his feet were like burnt brass.

Burnt brass has a color on it. That is not Middle Eastern, it's more darker, correct?

Okay, he also has a sword coming. It is a picture. It is a picture in a vision. What about Lamentations 4? That your priests were white like snow.

Lamentations 4, the priests were white like snow. Greg, Greg, we can't. Greg, Greg, Greg. We can't. First, you start off with Solomon, you're wrong.

Solomon is not speaking there. It is the woman that is speaking.

Okay?

It is the woman that is speaking.

And she's saying she's dark and that she has been tanned by the sun.

Okay, so her skin is dark by the sun. If you are a Middle Eastern person, your skin is darker than mine and lighter than yours. And that skin darkened by the sun would be pretty dark, but it is not negroid. All right. That's the first thing.

There was a dispute when Moses married a Cushite woman in Numbers 12. Cushites were Ethiopians. Could have been upset because she was African, and Moses and Aaron and Miriam weren't happy with that. But the fact of the matter is, the Israelites were not Negroid, they were Middle Eastern.

Now, let's just go to Revelation, the first chapter.

Okay, since you mentioned that, here's a picture of Jesus appearing. All right. So let's just look, all right, and let's check out the description here. The hairs of his head were white like white wool like snow, and His eyes were like a flame of fire. Is this a description of just your average person?

His feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters. This is a glorified vision where he's shining like someone burning in a furnace.

Okay, that's the picture. Is that a description of Negro? If Jesus was a black man, fine, so be it. If Moses was a black man, fine. And if they were Caucasians, fine.

And if they were Asian, fine. It's immaterial to me. But factually, the ancient Israelites were not. Negroid and in point of fact, if you'll trace history We can trace where Jews were expelled from various countries. We know the communities where they lived, Greg.

We know this for fact. We know when Jews were expelled from Judah by the Babylonians. We know the communities they developed in Babylon. We know the communities they developed in ancient Egypt in different parts of the world. We have their inscriptions, and then you can trace them through the centuries and see where they continue.

Alright, and then DNA tests would confirm this. And you have some intermarriage along the way so that you have uh Jews in India who look Indian, and Jews in China who look Chinese, and Jews in Africa who look African, and Jews in Europe who look European. That's through intermarriage. But the ancient Israelites were Middle Eastern.

So that's simple, simple facts, and Jesus in a vision here. He's got a sword coming out of his mouth. In his right hand, he had seven stars. From his mouth came a sharp two-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in full strength.

That's not black. His face is like the sun shining in full strength. That's that's much more white. You can't deduce the skin color of Jesus from this picture here, Greg. Please, I hope I hope you can see this.

I had to just put you on hold for a moment because two of us can't talk at the same time. But just to to you, Dr. Brown. Dr. Brown.

Go ahead. His hair was like wool. namely another race that here is led African American. Name me a race other than white that shines like has a face that shines like the sun. Dr.

Brown, I've met Indians. I've met Indians and Middle Eastern people whose hair is like wool.

Okay?

That's a lie, Dr. Brown. That's a lie. All right, Greg, tell you what. I know you're trying to be respectful when you refer to me as Dr.

Brown. But when you tell me I'm lying... I've got no time for this. I remember we had a conversation previously and every time I refuted what you had to say, you said, well, we're going to agree to disagree. No, no, no.

I'm not going to agree to disagree. What you're saying is factually wrong. And does Jesus literally have a sword coming out of his mouth? No, it's a vision. And the sun, when you look at the sun shining, that is bright, that is like white.

So you're going to make an argument then that he's got black feet? But he's got a white fa- No, no, it's a vision, and he's being depicted in these visionary ways. Greg. Why not? Learn to be a disciple of Jesus and put skin color aside.

I could care less if I'm white if I'm black. I could care less if the ancient Israelites were white if they're black. I want to be a disciple and loyal to God. and follow him as a Jewish believer. and live in a way that honors him.

I'd encourage you to put this secondary stuff aside because it's based on Falsehoods. Errors misinterpretations.

Alright. And by the way, If you're black, you don't need to be tanned by the sun. I understand you can get darkened as a black person, but you don't need to be tanned by the sun to explain the darkness. And also, tell me how the Israelite princes in Lamentations 4 were white. Like snow.

or white like milk. How's that? And now darkened through mourning and grief and ashen-faced. No, I don't believe they were Caucasian. But you're not going to make these arguments about skin color through misinterpretation of verses.

Yeah. I do hope you have a year's to hear. I hope you have ears to hear because you're on a path of error, sir. You seem like a nice guy. Respectful guy.

But please. don't be blinded. And when someone tells you something they've seen factually, Don't call him a liar, all right? Don't call them a lie.

Some lies.

Alright, we'll be right back. Around my new time, shake the new sign, change the world, change the world of light, hear our cry, send a fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on this thoroughly Jewish Thursday, I I've got another question. I've got another question for those who identify as Hebrew Israelites or black Jews. Before I go back to the phones. Why is the woman here?

The Beloved in Song of Solomon. Why is she saying And I'll oh, let's just see which translation will I read this from?

Okay, let's let's just read it from the New English translation, the N E T. If the ancient Israelites were all black, What's the meaning of this? I am dark but lovely. O maidens of Jerusalem, Dark like the tents of Kedar, lovely like the ten curtains of Salma. Do not stare at me because I'm dark, but For the sun has burned my skin.

If they're all black, what meaning does this have? Uh well You get the point? She's saying don't don't look at me because I'm so dark. Don't look at me funny. I'm I'm the sun has burned my skin.

My brothers were angry with me, they made me the keeper of the vineyard, to last my own vineyard I could not keep. I agree with what Billy Graham said many years ago as he was speaking to a mixed crowd and he looked at the blacks and said, Jesus was lighter than you. He looked at the whites and said, Jesus was darker than you. They're darker than me. But again, I encourage everybody.

to think about, and I've done this myself. Think about Jesus, think about the disciples, and picture them, they're all black. Because that's how a black person is constantly. confronted with Caucasian Jesus and Caucasian disciples. you know, European blue-eyed blonde hair kind of thing sometimes and old depictions.

You know, it's that foreign. Or or Asian.

Okay, picture that Jesus was Asian. You know, look Chinese and Moses look Chinese. Picture that. Or Native American. In other words, just see how you'd feel.

And could you still relate? And then realize, okay, we have to relate beyond those distinctions. Beyond those distinctions. 86634TRUTH. Let's go to Samuel in Winston-Salem, North Carolina.

Welcome to the line of fire. Yeah yeah. Yes, an amen, brother, to your last statement there. Um My wife asked me a question the other night and and I couldn't answer it, so I I'm I told her, Well, I'll have to call you and find out what it is. she said the Hebrews wandered in the desert for forty years and they all the whole generation died out.

But how does that square with the fact that in the Old Testament, you had all these guys living for like hundreds of years and stuff? Like What's that all about? Oh yeah. Easy answer on this one. First, the lifespan had greatly decreased.

The really, really long lifespans were primarily before the flood. Where you've got six, seven, eight, nine hundred plus years where people lived. After the flood, the lifespans greatly decrease. And you'll have, for example, an Abraham living to what, 175, but others in his family, you know, 137 and ages like that. And Moses living to 120.

I mean, that's really, really old. Psalm 90, which is attributed to Moses, says basically you can expect to live 70, maybe 80 years.

Okay. You've got Caleb in his 80s and he's still going strong. That was exceptional. But the bigger answer is that it was divine judgment. Numbers 14, 29, in this desert your bodies will fall.

They died because of divine judgment.

so if you were twenty years old or more, So let's say you're 21 years old. that the children of Israel come out of Egypt. Because of divine judgment, you're going to drop in that desert. You're not going to live to be 60. Because they had 38 plus years of wandering.

So it was divine judgment. All of them should not have died. Many of them should have been living. Instead, it was only Joshua and Caleb did.

So, simple answer: divine judgment cut their lives short. Oh, okay. I see that. Yeah, okay.

Well, thank you very much. Yeah, you're very welcome. And by the way, There are many, many questions like that in scripture we puzzle over and then find the answer is very simple. That happens to me all the time. But thank you.

It's a good question to ask. All right. couple things of interest. The Pope Has made clear that you cannot associate Islam with terrorism. And that if you're going to talk about that, then you have to talk about Catholic terror and things like that.

Now, I appreciate what he's saying. And I appreciate him acknowledging the misdeeds of the Catholic Church in history. But ISIS, and that the Pope's whole argument: you cannot associate religion with terror. But the Pope says the Isis says you better believe you can. Their response, as reported by Thomas Williams on Breitbart.com.

Islamic State answers Pope Francis, Ours is a religious war. And we hate you.

So in the most recent issue of the ISIS magazine Davik, Um ISIS criticizes Pope Francis for his naivete in clinging to the conviction that Muslims want peace and that acts of Islamic terror are economically motivated. Quote, this is a divinely warranted war between the Muslim nation and the nations of disbelief, the authors state in an article titled By the Sword. This would be standard Islamic theology, certainly radical Islamic theology. The Islamic State directly attacks France for claiming that authentic Islam and the proper reading of the Quran are opposed to every form of violence, saying that by doing this, France continues to hide behind a deceptive veil of goodwill, covering his actual intentions, excuse me, Francis, not France, covering his actual intentions by pacifying the Muslim nation. They say Pope Francis has struggled against reality in his efforts to portray Islam as a religion of peace.

They speak of taking up the sword of jihad as the greatest obligation of the true Muslim. And despite the obviously religious nature of their attacks, the article states many people in crusader countries express shock and even disgust that Islamic State leadership uses religion to justify violence. They say, waging jihad, spreading the rule of Allah by the sword is an obligation found in the Quran, the word of our Lord. We have a video graphic on our Facebook page, ask Dr. Brown, ASK Dear Brown on Facebook.

If you haven't seen it, check it out. We've got it pinned to the top. Meaning, as soon as you go to the Facebook page, you'll see it. But it is just a graphic about Islamic terrorist acts this year. Islamic terrorist acts last year, the amount of casualties, Islamic terrorist attacks since 9-11, the amount of casualties.

Please show me the parallel in Catholic terrorist attacks or Protestant terrorist attacks. They're not there. They're not there. Yes, the Catholic Church has been guilty of serious misdeeds in the past, and there were atrocities committed in the midst of the Crusades and Inquisitions and things like that. But Catholicism does not breed terror, and Protestantism does not breed terror But Islamic theology does at least one legitimate strain of it.

And ISIS is saying, hey, we're just carrying out Our religion, and for you to deny that is to deny reality, all right, friends. Check out my website, askdrbrown.org. I have an article, my most recent article, that addresses the question: is there a secret prophecy? Is there a secret prophecy about Barack Obama buried in the original Hebrew or Aramaic of Luke 10, 18? The answer is no, no, no, no.

But check my article so you can see this demolished in front of your eyes. Check out our special resource offer when you're there. My bottom line today, let's not get into these endless battles about the skin color of the ancient Israelites. Let's do what God says in his word and honor him.