Dr. Brown Welcomes Two Special Guests

So how does it apply to Jewish people today that the Jews are loved on account of the patriarchs? Um It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. All right, talk about a setup for Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. Not only is it your thoroughly Jewish host, Michael Brown, but we are in Brooklyn, New York.

It's Brooklyn, New York, one of the most Jewish cities in the world in terms of Jewish population. And I'm broadcasting from the Feinberg Messianic Center of Chosen People Ministries, where I'll be doing a talk tonight, 7 o'clock, free and open to the public. Everybody listening to me on WMCA, head down to Brooklyn tonight or up to Brooklyn or over to Brooklyn.

So, you can join me for the talk, Isaiah 53, The Rabbis and the Messiah. It'll be followed by live QA. I'll do a book signing as well. Free and open to the public. We will receive a love offering to help us with our radio ministry and Jewish outreach.

If you've got a Jewish-related call, Jewish-related question, Israel-related question, something to do with the Hebrew language and literature, something to do with Judaism, something to do with what's happening in the Middle East, give me a call today, 866-34Truth, 866-348-7884. In a moment, I'm going to be joined by another thoroughly Jewish guest, my good friend Dave Harwood. You've heard David Harwood on the air with me before. We normally talk about his book on God's true love and the subject of the love of God. We're going to talk about it from a different angle today in terms of God's commitment to the Jewish people, God's commitment to Israel.

Just a couple things first before we do this. Uh a young man just uh a colleague in my home city just sent me uh a funny email that uh on Twitter you'll get emails sent, here are some people you might want to follow. And they normally connect it to your Social leadings, your political leadings, or your sports interest, or whatever, and they see who you follow and what you're interested in. And then they send your list of people that you might want to follow. Oh, I didn't know he was on Twitter.

I didn't know she was on Twitter.

So he's a conservative Christian. Here are some people we think you might like to follow: Hillary Clinton. That was a surprise. Governor Mike Huckabee. That would make more sense given he's a conservative Christian.

How do you get from Hillary to Huckabee, though?

So the three people on the list: Hillary Clinton, Governor Mike Huckabee, and Dr. Michael Brown. I didn't see that third one coming, but that was cute. Also, also, have you heard the. The accusations that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas was actually a Soviet spy.

in Damascus in the 1980s. Israel's Channel 1 television reported this yesterday. Yeah, just yesterday.

Now, to be honest, if the Palestinian Authority brought some charges like this against an Israeli, I think it's just propaganda.

So the Palestinians are saying it's just propaganda, and I have no way of investigating. But according to Channel One's foreign news editor Arin Nahari, the famed Mitrokhin archive, which never heard of before at this moment, kept by KGB defek Yavasily Mitrokhin, revealed that a boss was a Soviet mole in Damascus in 1973, code named Kratov. Wow. What do you know? Had a code name and everything, if true.

Hey, it wouldn't surprise me, though. I mean, his doctoral dissertation was basically a denial of the Holocaust. Just so you are aware of that. All right. What do the ancient promises of God in the Scripture have to do with Israel today.

Really, a connection. Come on, look. If God said, I'm going to bless Israel, and maybe I'm going to destroy Moab, I'm going to destroy Amon. Who is Moab? Who is Amon today?

What makes us think that old, ancient? Promises given to Israel centuries ago in a whole different setting. What makes us think they have any application to Jewish people today? And do we even know who the Jewish people really are?

So we're going to take that up when we come back with Pastor David Harwood. Paul says the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. He says that the people of Israel, the Jewish people, are loved on account of the patriarchs. What does that mean to us today? We'll be right back.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome to the line of fire.

Michael Brown here, thoroughly Jewish. Thursday, you've got a Jewish-related question. Give me a call, 866-348-7884. Before we go to your calls, and we'll be interspersing this over this next.

Next hour, my friend and colleague David Harwood, I want to talk about the applicability of ancient promises to Israel. Two Jewish people Today and uh David You've looked at this not just as a Jewish believer. But as a Jesus centered Man. You really are. I don't say that like you really are centered on Jesus and spiritual things.

You're not one of these card-carrying Zionists, and you walk in the house and there's Israeli flags everywhere, which is fine if there were. But your sense about the importance of God's promises to Israel ties in directly with your understanding of God's love and who Jesus is and what he's done.

So help us sort this out because a lot of people think, you know, if you're pro-Israel, if you think God has purposes for Israel today, that that displaces Jesus or it's like going backwards. Help us sort these things out.

Well, rather than going backwards, when you take a look at what Paul wrote in Romans, there's a lot of present tenses that he uses to try to inform the uh Gentile believers in Rome that the Jewish people were Still important to the heart of God. You know, I began to look into this all over again over the last five or six years because I want to thank you for mentioning the book that I wrote on God's Love. When I wrote that book on God's Love, I specifically used the Jewish people through the scriptures as being a metaphor for all of humanity. And I had good reason for that. The Jewish people, prophetic people, a priestly people, an example of God's dealings with all of humanity, in analogy, oftentimes, a manifestation of how God deals with individuals, families, churches, perhaps even nations.

And people who blow it as well. Yes, and people who blow it as well. But what I was challenged by some friends are: well, look, you're using our people as a metaphor. Why don't you also write about the love of God for the Jewish people? And knowing that the love of God for our people is more than a metaphor, I began to look into this, specifically trying to find the heart of God.

Heart of God for the Jewish people through the eyes of the New Testament, rather than simply referring people back to Genesis 12 and a couple of other verses. I will bless those who bless you, those who make light of you, I will thoroughly curse.

Well, I said, well, what is it that actually was written in the New Testament scriptures, the apostolic writings? And of course, where you're drawn to is Paul's writing in Romans. Right.

So when you mention present tense, let's talk about that at the beginning of Romans, the ninth chapter. What does Paul say, not about the past and not about the future, but about the present? As Paul was writing to Roman believers, what language gets your attention there in Romans chapter 9, David?

Well, the beginning of it is very intense because he starts off saying that he has great sorrow and unceasing grief in his heart for the sake of his brethren who are his brethren according to the flesh, speaking of Israel, the people Israel, and he is manifesting the actual attitude and heart condition of God towards the Jewish people. This was not just some sort of a Jewish patriot. He wasn't simply, well, of course, he loved his people. We're called to love our people. And whatever ethnic group you're a part of, you should love your people.

But he was as an evangelist, apostle, a man who also had a prophetic anointing upon his life. He was in touch with God. And when God begins to speak and share his heart's disappointment concerning the Jewish people not turning to him with all of their heart, the language of That he uses in Ezekiel or in Jeremiah or in any of the prophets is one of heartbreak, it's one of anguish. And Paul is saying here, I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart.

Now, he was not saying that this was just a matter of like, hi, I'm from Iceland, I love Icelandic people the best. No, what he's saying here is that I could wish myself accursed, separated from the Messiah for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, who Are Israelites? These are those who are not walking in the fullness of new covenant reality. They are Israelites, not they were Israelites. Let's just pause there for a second.

In 9:6, he says, Not all Israel is Israel. And many people make that the last word and say that physical Israel today, Jewish people today, that's not really Israel. It's only the believers within the nation or even the church in general. That's the real Israel.

Now, he does say that they're Israel within Israel. That's the believing remnant.

So you and I, in Paul's view, would be the Israel within Israel. But then the rest of Romans 9, 10, and 11, whenever he says Israel, Israelites, he's talking about the nation as a whole. And here, the ones he's burdened for, who he calls Israelites, those are the lost ones.

So his heart is breaking when he says not all Israel is Israel. He's talking about that larger Israel, not the remnant within. And what does he say of them? They are Israelites. What else does he say, present tense?

Well, again, I wanted to go back to this. For the sake of the believing community, to be in full communion with the God and Father of our Messiah, Jesus, it's important to be able to understand and identify with his heart. Paul is saying, I am grieved. This is a manifestation of God's grief. Paul says, I wish that I could be cut off.

God incarnate was cut off for the sins not only of Israel, but of the entire world. And when Paul begins to write about his kinsmen according to the flesh who are Israelites, he does not say to whom used to belong the adoption of sons, but now it belongs to the church. To whom used to belong the glory, but now the glory belongs to the church. To whom used to belong the covenants, but now the covenants are ours. To whom was the giving of the law, and then the church goes, oh, ho-hum.

But Paul seems to have thought that it was something that was highly valuable. To whom belongs the temple service, but now divine worship belongs to us. To whom belongs the Jewish people, to whom belongs the promises. The promises haven't been taken away. It is a present tense.

And this is a man who is in conflict with many of the Jewish people of his day as he sought to present Jesus as Messiah to them. And then he says, whose are the fathers? Not whose used to be the patriarchs, but now they are our spiritual fathers. There are a lot of Present tense in this. And then after those seven blessings, he then says, From whom is the Messiah, according to the flesh.

Isn't that right? Yeah.

So let's just read it again. They are Israelites, the ones for whom Paul's heart broke. And to them belonged the adoption. Not belonged. Right, not belonged.

Belonged currently. To them belonged the adoption. The glory.

So the glory still belongs to them. The adoption still belongs to them. The covenants still belong to them. The giving of the law still belongs to them. The worship still belongs to them.

And the promises still belong to them. To them belong the patriarchs.

So Abraham, Isaac, Jacob still are the fathers of the Jewish people. And from their race, according to the flesh, is the Messiah.

Now, that, by the way, is an incredible line there, because as I was considering this in some of my writing and meditation, I was thinking, what this is supposed to be not just a fact, but Paul is trying to build honor in the Gentile believers for the Jewish remnant who have returned to Rome and they're trying to work out issues of unity. And he's trying to also impart to the Gentile believers a sense of honor for the Jewish people, even the Jewish people who are not spiritual brethren. And he says, whose are the fathers? From whom is the Messiah according to the flesh? That's intended to be like this.

This is a high honor.

Now, I have a friend, close friend, who is a charismatic Episcopal Church priest. And because of him and other relationships, I have friendships within people in the historical denominations and who are involved with liturgy. And I think, well, what would this verse be if it was, from whom, from the Virgin Mary is the Christ according to the flesh, who is overall God-blessed forever? If that had been written of the mother of the Messiah, it would be one of the most incredibly well-known verses throughout the entire world. But because, and of course, it would have been, look at this honor that is due this woman, the mother of Jesus.

What honor? From her came the Messiah into the world. But that's not what Paul wrote. He says, from whom his Jewish brethren, his kinsmen according to the flesh, from whom is the men. Is the Messiah.

And he's trying to say, look, honor these people. And I would say to people who are coming from a church background that was somewhat liturgical or who were taught to appreciate Mary and perhaps, you know, of course, from my perspective, appreciate her a bit much. But consider what this is saying. What Paul is saying is, these people are to be honored, and I am heartbroken over them, that they are not walking in the relationship with God that God desires them to have. Which means that that same principle applies to this very moment, this very day.

We'll be right back. Your calls, comments, are welcome? 866-348-7884. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Sometimes people get frustrated because the Bible seems like a foreign book to them.

Well, often it seems foreign because of the figures of speech. and the images and the customs and so on. But when we explain those, Then the Bible becomes intriguing again. and people are able to get at what the Bible was really addressing. That's the voice of Professor Craig Keener.

Boy, you can hear his heart. Wanting people to really get into the word and understand it.

So, you can get my exclusive two-hour interview with Professor Craig Keener. And when you order the Cultural Background Study Bible, we'll pay the postage on this 2,350-page Bible as well that will make the scriptures come alive to you in so many amazing ways.

So, to order, go to our website, SDr. Brown, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org, and we'll be sure to send that right out to you. All right, just remember, full four hours and 40 minutes from now, we start in Brooklyn, New York, 1974 Coney Island Avenue at the Feinberg Messianic Center. Can't wait to see you there for my talk tonight. All right, let's go to the phones in Wilmington, Delaware.

John, welcome to the line of fire. How you doing, Dr. Brown? Doing well, thanks. Uh I did a question.

The branch in Isaiah 11 and the branch in Jeremiah and the branch in, well, actually, Zachariah 3:8, and then Jeremiah.

Sometimes the word there there there's different Hebrew words. Is that correct? Yeah, Isaiah 11 it's Netzer, in Zechariah 3 and Jeremiah 23 it's Samach. Uh both both words meaning branch though, just different aspects of it.

Okay, so there's no difference in the warning. That is the same person that's being prophetic there, right? Yeah, ultimately these are best understood as messianic prophecies, Isaiah 11, Jeremiah 23, Zechariah 3. Yes. And Zechariah 6.

Because the JPS, I was reading there, they have a different wording. It's the shoot, but that just means branch, too. There's no difference in that as well, right? Yeah, again, Netzer you might argue is more a shoot and Semach more branch, but they're both messianic. Types.

Isaiah 11, it's clear it's the son of Jesse who's going to rule and reign and recognized as a messianic passage in Zechariah 3 and Zechariah 6, although having the context of the Second Temple, Joshua the high priest is kind of a messianic prototype who then sits on a throne as a priestly king or as a royal priest.

Okay, yeah, thank you very much. You are very welcome. Much appreciated. 866-34TRUTH. David, a question posed for me.

Why is God uniquely brokenhearted for Israel? On the one hand, He wants all people to be saved. Jesus died equally for all. There are no favorites in that respect. But in Zechariah, when God tells the nations, if you touch Israel, you touch the apple of my eye, things like that, in what way would you say that there's a unique Pain in God's heart, as there was in Paul's heart, because of the relationship, Israel being the bride, the Ezekiel 16 imagery.

What would convey that more deeply to us? I think that the thing which for me is most important in regards to that is just that God does not back out of relationships. He remains faithful through it all. When I think of speaking of God's heart towards the Jewish people, I'm going to go back to Romans and it says, But as for Israel, he says, All day long have I stretched out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people. I don't know that I have necessarily an answer as to what this unique love is caused by.

I can say this, though. God is Pleading with Israel to return. And I don't know that we need to look any further than, oh, let's say Deuteronomy chapter 7, where he says, but the Lord earnestly desires you, he's attached to you, not because you're some wonderful people, but because the Lord loved you. And he kept his covenant, he kept his promises. And I think that sometimes we are not necessarily going to know why.

And I can say that I don't really think that I do. All right, so let's get into Romans the 11th chapter. And towards the end of that chapter, Paul saying, yes, there may be enemies. Right now for the gospel, but they're loved. On account of the father.

So explain that generational love and open up that passage, if you like.

Okay.

Well, the first thing that I would want to say about that is: once again, we're looking at something which is in the present tense. Just as in Romans 9 it says, to whom belongs all of these various promises and blessings, so also here it says that the Jewish people are beloved, are beloved for the sake of the patriarchs.

Now, the sake of the patriarchs. I think that within the framework of our culture, we can best understand it as: suppose you had a best friend, and your best friend had children or grandchildren that were going to be showing up at an airport, and they called you up and said, listen, would you please, I know I'm coming to you, you know, based upon our friendship, would you go to the airport and pick up my children? Would you go to the airport? Would you pick up my grandchildren? I want to make sure that they're safe.

Well, we can understand that. This is something which we can understand because, well, if we were in the position of needing someone to watch over our children or our grandchildren, we could understand as to how we would want someone to do that for us.

Well, God was friends with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, according to the Gospels, are still alive. God is not the God of the dead. God is the God of the living. And as such, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob still have a vibrant life before the throne of the Father.

And the Father sees Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and says, In the same way that I was committed to you, I will be committed to your children. And this would be the type of thing that, believe it or not, is on the hearts of the patriarchs.

Well, here it says that these people are, from the standpoint of God's choice, Beloved for the sake of the patriarchs.

Now, what that means is that to this very day, the Jewish people. Are beloved by God for the sake of his relationship with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And then it goes on to say that the gifts and callings of God are irrevocable. Personally, I like the King James Version, which says that they are beyond repentance, that he loves the Jewish people, having given to them gifts and callings, and that he does not regret giving the gifts and callings to these people. As such, they are irrevocable.

So, when we take a look at the love that God has for the Jewish people, we can say this. We know that at some point in the future, that that love will end up being satisfied. Do you realize that earlier in Romans chapter 11, Paul wrote, and said, For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery, so that you will not be wise in your own estimation, that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the nations has come in, and so all Israel will be saved, just as it is written, the deliverer will come from Zion. He will remove ungodliness from Jacob. This is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.

So, what he's saying is, I am going to bring this relationship to completion. These people are going to know me. They are going to love me. I am going to remove ungodliness from Jacob. This is something which is real.

It's something which God anticipates. It's something that those who love him should anticipate. And that means if you as a child of God recognize your own weakness and struggles, look at how God dealt with Israel and be encouraged with his steadfast love for you. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome back to Thurley Jewish Thursday, 866-348-7884, the number to call Times of Israel reports.

Netanyahu thanks Christian Zionist in Netherlands for support. Quote, we know we have no better friends on earth than you. That's what Prime Minister Netanyahu, who told the director of Christians for Israel there in. The Netherlands, and of course, that is the land of the Khori Ten Booms, the family there with a profound and deep love for the Jewish people, not because of Jewish righteousness, but because of God's promises. Meaning that our love for Israel and our prayers for Israel are not based on how good Israel is or how welcoming they are to Jesus, it is based on God's unconditional love.

Yes, there's discipline in the midst of it, but his love remains. 866-34-TRUTH. David Harwood joining me. We're going to continue our discussion about God's heart for Israel, but we'll take another call. We'll go to Richmond, Virginia.

Nick, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Doctor Brown, thanks for having me on. How are you? You bet. Yeah, let's just have a qu Quick question.

You've probably answered it a million times, but since we were basically talking about Israel on the topic of Romans nine, I just wanted to see what your take was when Paul says in verse eight that it's not the children of the flesh. who are the children of God but the children of the promise. I guess, in regards to elections. Yeah, David, would you like to comment on that? No, I prefer you to.

All right, fine.

So let's first see what Paul is and isn't saying. He's talking about those who are the recipients of The promise regarding the Messiah, right? What would have been expected would be that the Messiah came to the Jewish people. The Jewish people received the Messiah and now they made it known to the world. Whereas the Jewish nation, by and large, rejected the Messiah, which caused people to wonder: well, did the word of God fail then, right?

That would be a logical question. Maybe something went wrong.

So Paul's explaining that, no, always through history and to this day, there's a remnant who believes. There is a remnant within the nation who has received the promises, who has believed. And what's happened in the past has happened to this very day.

So he now demonstrates that the nation as a whole, which he still calls Israel and still recognizes, is called by God and loved by God, that they have not been the recipients of the promise. Hence, this means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, meaning those who are in relationship with him through Jesus the Messiah, but the children of the promise are counted as. Offspring. Go ahead, David. I think that it's important to say that unless you have an understanding of Paul's belief in a godly remnant that comes right out from Isaiah and other places, I mean, we're talking about a very defined theology of a godly remnant in the midst of the chosen people who are being used by God to preserve them, just as right now the church is being used as a remnant people from all the nations of the earth in order to preserve our nations.

So, when Paul, if you don't understand that Paul highly valued this concept of the remnant, saw himself and the other apostles and the Jewish believers of the pre-70 AD Jewish believing, Messianic Jewish believing community as being this preserving remnant, you cannot understand what it is that he's writing in Romans. Because his understanding of the godly remnant is foundational to what it is that he's trying to say. Absolutely.

So we're going to finish answering that on the other side of the break, Nick. But the short answer is this: that you can be called by God nationally and only have a remnant within the nation actively receiving the promises and the full benefits. What Paul's saying is that at the end of the age, there will be a turning so that the nation as a whole that has been rejecting the Messiah will turn towards him. We'll be right back. Use time Shake the knee It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Israel, all of mankind can be born in him singing all of mankind can be born in.

The Talbot Brothers. Amazing music. Michael Brown, that is Thurly Jewish Thursday sitting with my friend David Harwood. I'm in Brooklyn, New York, getting ready for our event tonight at the Feinberg Messianic Center, right in the heart of Jewish Brooklyn. If you've got a Jewish-related call, give me a call at eight, Jewish-related question, give me a call at 866-348-7884.

So just want to go back to Nick and Richmond. I'm sitting with Dave Harwood, and we're talking about Romans 9 through 11. Nick, is there anything in particular troubling you in Paul's wordings that would suggest to you that an Israelite who does not believe in Jesus as the Messiah is somehow no longer part of Israel or no longer part of the general promises to the nation? No, I guess specifically, I was just more asking for your view on. As far as the election goes with the Jews, when you know, uh Paul goes on to say that Um, God will have mercy on whom He has mercy and how that basically plays into the election.

But did you use And by election do you mean to eternal salvation specifically? Yeah.

Yeah, okay, so again, in short, there are promises given to the nation as a whole. And whether Israel believes or not, those promises still apply. In other words, God will preserve the Jewish people until the end, whether Jews believe in him or not. There will be a regathering back to the land. There has been and will continue to be, whether or not Jews believe in him.

They come back to the land and unbelief. In fact, the modern state of Israel was founded by atheists and communists and unlikely pioneers. And yet that's what God did and whom he worked through.

So there's that election which stands regardless, okay? And that does not guarantee salvation. As to those who are believers, Romans tells us how one gets in, that's by faith. In other words, I see the references to chosenness in Romans, or Jacob, I loved Esau, I hated, having to do with service, not with salvation. Because Jacob I loved and Esau I hated.

That's a quote from Malachi 1, which is speaking to the nations. And all of Israel was not saved, and all of Edom was not lost.

So the election there is to service.

So I don't see that as an election to salvation. Romans has laid out quite emphatically: it's not by works, it's by faith, and whoever believes will be saved. He even lays that out in the 10th chapter as well.

So I don't see this in a Calvinistic way as a predetermined election.

Some God's chosen salvation, others to damnation. He's chosen the nation of Israel as a whole for his purposes, and those who put their faith in Jesus the Messiah will be saved, and in that sense will be part of the elect who have eternal life. And other references, again, I don't see even raising up Pharaoh, I don't see that as a salvation issue, but an issue of how God was going to work through him and raised up a hardened man and made him even harder to demonstrate his glory through the earth.

So anyway, I appreciate it. That's my take and understanding on it, and it seems to work well. As I read through all of Romans, you get to the end of Romans 11. God's had mercy on all, who, Jew and Gentile. He's stirred up all men to unbelief that he may have mercy on them all.

David. The images having just read through the prophetic books again recently I was struck, especially in Ezekiel, with the graphic language of the images there and Israel's. Unfaithfulness to God. I mean, it's literally whoring after the other neighbors, even with the details of, you know, it's graphic the way it's laid out. What does that convey to us in terms of God's heart?

Well, from my perspective, not just Ezekiel, but all of the exilic prophets were brought into a place of grief and loneliness. We have, I mean, you're an expert on Jeremiah in particular, and that man is a celibate. You have Daniel, who most likely was a eunuch. You have Ezekiel, who is a widower, and God is looking for people who will be able to identify with him in his grief, in his loneliness, whether it be like it's been so long since she has been with me. It's been so long since I have been with her.

She has turned away. She has turned away. Or in Ezekiel's case, she's died. It's like God looking for people who will identify with his heart. Right back to what we were mentioning in the beginning of your program, Paul identifying with God's heart, saying, I am filled with grief.

I am filled with unceasing anguish for. For Israel, for the Jewish people, for those of Israel who have not come to a saving knowledge of God through the Messiah. All right. We have another trip to Israel, February 25th to March 6th. And one thing that you will get on the trip.

Is many of the things that Israel does in a good way and ways that Israel's trying to deal righteously in difficult situations. And you'll meet Jewish believers in the land, you'll meet Arab believers, but certainly it is a pro-Israel trip. It's not one to raise hostility to the Jewish people, the Jewish state. But the fact of the matter is. Uh Jewish people are fallen like everybody else.

Jewish people are human beings.

So wonderful qualities, terrible qualities. That's just the way it is. And you have Jewish mafia or whatever it's called. You've got Jewish drug dealers. You've got prostitution issues in Israel.

You have the world. And then you have the very religious, some of whom are hypocrites, just like in the church.

So the more we understand how deeply God loved Israel and Israel straying, that should mean to me then that my commitment to pray for Israel and love Israel is not based on how good Israel is. In other words, if there's bad news and Israel mistreats Palestinians, okay, I hate that as a Jew and as someone who stands with Israel. As a friend, I want to address that. But that doesn't lessen my love or commitment, whereas a lot of Christians have to almost make Israel into like so supernatural and wonderful and beautiful to love him. Whereas it's really the opposite of God's heart.

Right.

Well, in Romans 11, it says, the deliverer will come from Zion. He will remove ungodliness from Jacob. This is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.

So when the Lord comes again, there's going to be a good thing. There's going to be ungodliness which needs to be removed.

Now, by the way, many people who read those verses don't go back to see the context of what Paul was referencing. Because a lot of times, when Paul will quote something from the Hebrew scriptures, he's expecting people who are learned at that time to understand the entire context. And here, what we have is the end of Isaiah 59, Paul putting these verses together, looking to Isaiah 59. The deliverer, the redeemer will come to Zion, in this case from Zion. He will remove ungodliness from Jacob.

This is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.

And then the very next chapter, he says, Isaiah says, Arise, shine, for your light has come, and the nations are going to come. You're going to be completely restored. It's going to be the beauty of holiness upon you, and I am going to be there. With you.

So, this is what it is that we are looking forward to. This is something which God desires to bring to pass, and he is looking for those who will love, who will stand first, love him like God. What you love is what I will love. You actually love these people? Yes, Paul says, they are beloved for the sake of the patriarchs, beloved by God for the sake of the patriarchs.

Getting on to God's wavelength concerning this is very important for all those who desire to fellowship with this God. You know, as you're saying these things, it reminds me that kids will grow up. And they like certain foods because mom and dad like those foods. Of course, they ate them, but they saw their parents like them. Why do you like that?

Why do you vote this way politically? Why do you dress like this? A lot of them, well, because that's what my mom and dad did, or someone I really admire in the religious Jewish community. Why do you wear this particular garment? You know, the clothes that you wear go back to a certain Eastern European community.

Yeah, well, that's the way they dress, and we really honor them.

So we kind of perpetuate that memory.

So, again, You know our Heart for World missions, our school of ministry, we have workers all around the world. In fact, we have a handful in Israel, but we have more in the Muslim world than we have in Israel, and then more in just the general world that's out there. what, 100 to 1 pretty much compared to Israel.

So you can have a heart for the nations, and then you've got a great heart for the church as a whole, and a heart for worship. You're a worship leader, you led worship at the pastors made this morning, you're a songwriter. You can have that, and yet recognize there's just something about God's love for Israel. Again, Jesus died for all people equally, and within the body, there's no caste system or class system. We both hate anything of a Jewish superiority.

We're all one in the Messiah, and yet there is something. It is the Messiah's own people, after all. You don't think we'd have a different heart for Russia if the Messiah was Russian? A different heart from Mexico if the Messiah was Mexican. A different heart for Nigeria if the Messiah was Nigerian and if the Nigerian people as a whole rejected him and they were scattered around the world now in judgment, all the more would we be burdened to pray for Nigeria.

But when it's Israel, oh no, you're being racist or you're making God into a racist. It's a double standard. And that's one reason why I do so appreciate non-Jewish believers in God through Jesus who love our people.

Now, I don't appreciate an over-the-top zealousness which ignores much of the scripture, but those from the nations who love the Jewish people, they are treasures. Yeah, and we'll pick that up on the other side of the break. A wild. College thing I got to talk to you about in one minute, too. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-342. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Okay, I've got a brand new video on this.

You've got to watch it. Go to the line of fire. Dot org, the line of fire.org, the latest of social justice warriors. David, you're not going to believe this one. Cal State University in LA, they are now fighting microaggressions at the request of black students on campus by giving them segregated housing.

You say, am I serious? Yeah, I am. Serious.

So check out my latest video, thelineoffire.org. And how about this? How about this? Cal State in Berkeley. Uh Oh, okay.

They are now doing their best with one particular professor. to basically erase Jewish history from Israel. Uh the I'm just looking at the fellow that's going to be leading this initiative here Uh let's see. He's co-founder of the militant Students for Justice in Palestine, an organization so virulently anti-Israel that it can shut down any speaker it disagrees with on almost any campus, even before you can enunciate the monosyllabic word Jew. This leader Bazian is a street orator whose disgust with America is such that he called for an American intifada.

He is a major supporter of the US campaign for the academic and cultural boycott of Israel, and a one time fundraiser for Kind Hearts, which the US Government shut down for its alleged ties to the terrorist organization Hamas, He refers to the modern-day Palestinians as the descendants of the Philistines. and on and on. This is Cal State Berkeley.

So, Hatem Bezian, sponsor of UCB's new anti-Israel course, calls for an American intifada. Amazing. On our college campuses, eight six six six six six six six three four truth. Yeah.

Uh okay. If you have, I just want to make a general. observation. If you have any question for me on the Sabbath on tithing On divorce. Don't call in, just go to my website.

Go to thelineoffire.org and just click on the digital library and just type in Sabbath. Or divorce, or tithing. There are a ton of other subjects we've done videos on, but we would get so many calls on these subjects that. We have teaching videos.

So, if you have a question for me about Sabbath observance, about tithing, about divorce. Give me a call. No, no, don't. Don't give me a call. Go to the website thelineoffire.org.

Go there. And Just do a search for Sabbath, for divorce, for tithing. In fact, go there first because you'll find many of the questions you have we've already answered with a radio show, with a video, or with an article.

So, David. You were saying that there's a certain pro-Israel mentality. That just personally you're not a big fan of, that perhaps. is based my words On a more political zeal, or more sentimentalism, or something more superficial that perhaps could be moved if Israel didn't do right, or whatever. Uh so Oh.

Well Basically, what the call is in the believing community are to people who are going to be identifying with God's heart. And when one identifies with God's heart, our response to any people, any people group, is going to be one of love.

Now, my challenge to the believing community is that they would make room in their heart for the God who still loves these people. It was important enough to the Apostle Paul that he said, listen, I'm even viewing my ministry as a means to bring my unbelieving brethren to jealousy. A lot of times I find that the people who are most zealous for the state of Israel are not really zealous for the eternal well-being of the Jewish people. And I understand. that when you have a certain ministry standing with Israel, That the Jewish perception is your only goal is to convert us and pull us away from our people and bring us into the church.

That's the way they would perceive it, because of which we're a little skeptical. And you're just showing us love in order to convert us.

Well, a little skeptical. Yeah, yeah. Rightly, and I understand it given church history.

So, look, I have friends. That work selflessly to serve and help Jewish people, and they do it because they love Israel, because they love Jewish people, period. And they don't preach, they don't, quote, proselytize, and they say, Hey, I'm just there to serve and love, and you're a Jewish believer, you can share your faith, but I don't want anyone to have a wrong impression. I fully understand that. I do too.

But when there is not a burden to see Jewish people saved, when there is not a deep prayer to see Jewish people saved, then something's wrong. Or when there is a refusal to stand with the Messianic Jewish community, both in the land and amongst the nations, like in the United States, for fear of offending the greater Jewish community who would be like, How can you be for them and love us at the same time?

Well, the reality is that we are called to love the brethren, and we are called to stand with those people who are from a Jewish background, who are maintaining their identity, and yet also serving the Messiah. Messiah, Jesus, and identifying with Him both in the land and amongst the nations. All right, so on a practical level, we've just got a minute and a half. You're a pastor of a church, got a congregation, got a million other things to talk about, teach, help, family issues, general life, growing in the Lord, etc. What should your average pastor do with his congregation concerning Israel?

Well, amongst other things, I would have the congregation to understand that God still has a special and unique love for them because of the patriarchs, and that they have become, to some degree, an extension of the believing Jewish remnant who are loyal to Jesus. These people now, it's like, hey, listen, you have an identity with the Jewish believers. You are part of the same commonwealth. You are serving the same king. You are saints together with these people.

You know, that's something which maybe I might be able to speak about at some point, Michael, is the skewed. Way in which people see the scriptures because they're reading about the demographics of the first century church in an anachronistic fashion, seeing the population of the church as being like 99.9% Gentile and like 0.1% Jewish. Whereas when the epistles were being written, it wasn't necessarily quite that way in the opposite. There may have been 10% Gentiles, 15% Gentiles, 20% Gentiles in the church. And Paul was writing to the Gentiles and saying, Listen, you folks have such value, you have such dignity, and you are accepted together in the Beloved with us.

We are one new man. You are fellow citizens in this commonwealth of Israel. In which Jesus is the king. Yeah, and it makes a massive difference when you put things in their background and context. And by the way, just another reminder: we've extended the offer.

We've just got a couple more days. Get the Cultural Background Study Bible done by Professors John Walton and Craig Keener. A massive, amazingly practical, rich work. When you order it, we'll give you free the two-hour interview with Professor Keener and we'll pay the postage as well. You can do that right on our radio website, thelineofire.org.

My bottom line today: the tenacity of God's love for Israel, even as Israel sinned, is a great comfort to me as a follower of Jesus, the Messiah.

So is there a connection between ancient Israel and Africa? Mm. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. That's 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. It is Thurly Jewish Thursday here on the Line of Fire.

This is Michael Brown. Delighted to be with you. Coming away live from Brooklyn, New York, the Feinberg Messianic Center. Run by Chosen People Ministries. If you've got a question, Jewish-related, Israel-related question, Hebrew-related question, give me a call, 866-34TRUTH.

866348. Eight, eight, four. By the way, just on a general news note, another school shooting, just saw this for the first time moments ago. One female student in Texas shot and wounded another before fatally shooting herself, Texas's Alpine High School, reported by a sheriff there. Just another reminder of the degree of attack that this younger generation is under and the need for us to continue to bring the gospel.

All right, I am going to be speaking with a guest that. Uh that I do not know personally and do not know a lot about personally.

So we're going to get to know each other together on the phone today. I want to find out what are the differences between his beliefs And those of what are called Hebrew Israelites or black Hebrew Israelites who say that they are the original Jews, that the original Jews or the original Israelites are all black.

Some of the most radical say that there is no salvation for the white man.

Some of them believe in salvation through Jesus, but have some other skewed beliefs about their relationship to the law. And for months now, I've been receiving requests. When are you going to address this? When are you going to talk about Hebrew Israelites, especially growing in the inner cities? We're having problems with these things.

And there's more and more Information is they have websites now because it's not like there have been a ton of books that they've written or produced. It's more been a grassroots thing. And we're getting more and more calls from those who are professing Hebrew Israelites. My friend Dr. James White has now done some debates.

I believe there's one gentleman that I'm at least one I'm supposed to debate soon, a Hebrew Israelite.

So my guest is coming from a different perspective. We'll find out what that is together. But yeah. It was January No, no, it was uh Yeah, 2015. Hundreds of people arrived to celebrate the life of Ben Ami Ben Israel.

Who founded the Black Hebrews community in the 60s and passed away last week at the age of 75? the actual founder of the African Hebrew Israelites community. And this was in Israel. And among those who gathered was uh the mayor of Dimona, uh and the sp and a speaker the speaker of the Knesset According to the mayor, he was a true gentleman. He will be greatly missed with the community and in the city, within the community and in the city of Dimona.

Hmm. This is what Mayor Benny Bitton said of the late spiritual leader who passed away at age 75 after reportedly being ill for a year. Bitton is planning on naming a new neighborhood in Demona after the black Hebrew's leader. Born in Chicago is Ben Carter. Ben Israel's death occurred a year and a half after he finally received his Israeli citizenship.

Quote: He was a leader of great stature, a Zionist throughout every bone of his body, loved Israel and the country. I hope that with the help of the new Interior Minister, we'll be able to give every member of the community citizenship. Is is this yet something else where Gentiles convert to Judaism, and now become embraced by the nation of Israel and stand with the nation of Israel. Which would be different than Hebrew Israelites who do not believe that the rabbis would have authority today. Then my guest has yet another perspective.

So I'm eager to find out more about where he's coming from. My guest Sar Sharat Masayahu. Find out How he got that name, where he studied. and what his views are when we come back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I just want to live in Israel. Live a life of purity.

Away from the wild. and wicked world. To teach my children how to be free. That's the voice, the sound of the Spirit of Israel and soul messengers. Uh African Hebrew Israelites Commemorating their deceased leader, that I just mentioned, Ben Ami, Ben Israel.

Israel.

Okay, so. We're going to sort some things out here. The difference between this community and Israel. The difference between Hebrew Israelites and a perspective that my guest has now. Let me just introduce him, Sar Sharat Masiyahu.

Holds a bachelor's in history and education from Lincoln University in Oxford, Pennsylvania, and a double-content master's degree in teaching and history from Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia. And we are just getting to know each other today.

So, Sar, is that how? how I should address you. Welcome to the broadcast. Oh, welcome, and I thank you for that welcome, Michael. You can refer to me as Masayahu.

That is fine. Masayahu.

Okay.

Let me ask you how you got that name, and then I want you to. Give me a context of where you're coming from and how it's similar to or different from what we know as Hebrew Israelites or black Hebrew Israelites.

So, again, my goal is to find out. Where you're coming from, what you believe, what you feel that you have uncovered that's important for the church to know in general.

So, how did you come to have this name, sir?

Well, first of all, I want to give all glory, honor, and praise to the Holy One of Israel, Hakosh Geruchu, and the Messiah of Israel. Um and I I I come to uh to to do um His will and to help to use my gift and talent that he's given me in the area of history and research to. to dialogue with with your audience. As far as the name, Sasha Rad is a title that was given to me by One of the elders of Israel. It's a general term.

I'm sure you understand what it means. A chief or prince. to minister. Because of the work and ministry that I've done, Within the messianic community. But Masayahoo is a name that was given to me.

by the elders of Israel. It's not a name that I decided one day I figured out who I was and said, let me name myself this. We don't do that in our community. The children are named. Um and uh you know after uh after prayer and You know, looking to find a way to give them something powerful that they can live up to.

And so I was given that name and My actual the family name that I'm called throughout my family, they just call me Israel. Um that's just one of the more uh familiar names uh that my mother and and everyone else calls me. But my yeah, and j just to understand one thing though, when you make reference to the elders of Israel, who who are you referring to? We're talking about Those Israelites that are still here in America today. And we don't make a separation between racial groups.

We're not racialists. We know that the prophecies of the Tanakh say that the Jews or the Israelites would be spread to the four corners of the planet Earth. And therefore, there are Israelites today in the four corners of the planet earth that resemble people from around the world where they have gone and miscegenated and mixed, et cetera. And so my particular community, when I say the elders of Israel, I mean those from the congregation that I belong. But, you know, elders of Israel would be any of Israel around the entire world that are part of the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

All right. And I know this is not what you want to major on, but help us understand what's the difference between what you believe and what's popularly called Hebrew Israelites that says that all of Israel is originally black and some more extreme views that there's no salvation for the white man. What's the difference between what you're saying and what they say? Um I don't know exactly how this show is set up and how much time for here and there. But I just want to say this to you right now.

Um Basically the tradition of Um uh being Israelites. amongst so called African American people, is actually a tradition that goes back and spans centuries. into West Africa. And then once you get into West Africa, there are traditions that span back centuries there.

So if you want to at some point discuss the history there, okay. But as far as just to answer your question up front, Um basically Um The Hebrew Israelite movement has a beginning. It's not an original movement. It's not what the Ancient Israelites called themselves, they didn't refer to themselves by the term Hebrew Israelite. This came on the scene.

Around the nineteen late nineteen fifties, early nineteen sixties, you begin to see this terminology begin. It gains more weight around the nineteen seventies. And by the nineteen eighties, it actually had become A hallmark of that particular group of people.

Now, I don't want your audience to be in any way confused because we know the Father's not the author of confusion. But What has happened is you have authentic West African Jews that came to America centuries ago Um some through the transatlantic slave trade. And they passed on certain traditions that were handed down. orally since that time, since the seventeen hundreds at the very Uh least. and we can document this.

Now, what happens is a group of people that caught on to this tradition. then began to mix it with the black nationalism that started to happen in the nineteen sixties. And there was a group in the nineteen sixties that was called the Israelite School of Tanakh. It was led by a man who was called Rabbi Eberbin Yeoman. And he was a member of a group called the Commandment Keepers.

Also known in history as the Black Jews of Harlem. They're very famous in New York City. They had a huge synagogue there on the west side in Harlem. like West one hundred and twenty second to one hundred twenty five, around that area. There were a lot of groups during that time.

So Iber ben Yeoman split with that group because he had a conviction about the New Covenant or New Testament manuscript and the Messiah of Israel. And also because he was very radical. He would go out on the streets and tell black people, you're the ancient Israelites and the white man is Esau. And so there a split came because a man by the name of he was called Rabbi Wentworth Matthew. Actually, the founder of Commandment Keepers was actually from.

the Caribbean by way of West Africa. And he was like, we're not getting into the racialism and calling people out by names. And he actually had a very decent working relationship with the Ashkenazi community in New York City. And so Iber bin Yeoman wanted to actually get out there and combine like the Malcolm X Nation of Islam, Elijah Muhammad kind of black radicalism with the message of this oral tradition. And then it turned when he died in the late sixties, he was actually killed by the Muslims.

On the street corner for provoking them, his followers opened up this school called the Israelite School of Universal Practical Knowledge. And those are the guys that you see that wear the outfits with like the studs and the metal and all of those, and they're on the street corner saying, you know, the white pan and all of that. They actually morphed out of a halalically traditional. Jewish Black Jewish or Israelite movement that started in Harlem. They don't like to talk about that.

But they're the ones who broke off, and once they did, then you begin to see breaks throughout the eastern seaboard of America, and then you see certain disruptions happen in the Midwest, in Chicago, et cetera. And after their knowledge, after television comes, public access, it gains momentum, right? And now because we're in a time of the Internet, et cetera, the momentum is outrageous. And so these little groups that had little storefronts in Harlem, nineteen forty one, Madison is where one of them is after the group split, and others are in Brooklyn off of Atlantic Avenue. What happened is they expanded worldwide.

And so because of the racial fervor that's taking place now, because you see the oppression of people of color as it is perceived by people of color in the nation, then these groups are gaining momentum just as In the early 90s, you saw the white version of it because there are white Hebrew Israelites, Michael. And they're called the Christian Identity Movement, and they teach that they're the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. And the one thing in common is they all hate the Jews. Yeah, yeah. So that's a little bit of the history of how it turned into From a group that followed halakha and did the observances, et cetera.

Into a group that Became what you see today. And they don't like you talking about that, and they'll probably not be very pleased with me for mentioning that, but it's a matter of fact and truth, and that's what I'm here to represent. Got it. Hey, I appreciate it very much bringing that clarification.

So we come back, wanna talk about then your history and origin as you understand it. What connection is there with ancient Israel, with Africa? We talk about Ethiopian Jews or the Lember tribe in Zimbabwe and say, hey, they're legitimate Jews or they're Indian Jews. Are there African Jews in America? It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. This is Michael Brown.

Welcome to Thirdly Jewish Thursday. If you're anywhere near Brooklyn, New York, join me tonight. Thursday night, I'll be doing a lecture on Isaiah 53, the Rabbis and the Messiah, at the Feinberg Messianic Center, from whence I am broadcasting now, 1974 Coney Island Avenue. I'm joined by Sar Sharat Masayahu.

So, Masayahu, I love. The details that you're giving, because this is helpful for us in sorting out historical issues. I know you could take hours to To open up certain things.

So, I'm going to ask you some questions. If you give us the bird's eye view first, then we'll dig deeper and get into the worm's eye view of some of this. But as you understand your origins, your history, you say that you're part of a community. of African Americans that maintained Jewish-Israelite roots that somewhere in ancient history, through Jewish people being scattered around the world, then through inter-marriage, where people would marry into Judaism instead of Jews assimilating, that customs and traditions were passed on, like we speak of some Ethiopian Jews or Lemba tribe in Zimbabwe that I mentioned previously, and then primarily through slave trade were brought over to America and continued to keep these customs and now have come in with full embrace of the Messiah as well. Is that the right summary?

Am I understanding how you identify correctly? Just about. But the part about making a focus about the intermarrying. I want to just point out that my position is not that we are Jews because we intermarry with Jews, but that we are Jews. And so we wouldn't talk to Russians, we wouldn't talk to Yemenites, we wouldn't talk to various French Jews around the world and say Right.

In other words, the the fact that I'm a I'm Caucasian and I'm a Jew. Obviously the Israelites were not Caucasian. And yet we don't say there had to be intermarriage somewhere along all the time.

Okay, I accept that. Right.

I recognize it. All right, so the tribal origins, West Africa, how from what you can understand, going back and research, when does Israel now connect with some of these West African tribes?

Well, you stated earlier, Michael, when you were talking before the show, given the build up for this segment, You made the statement that the Hebrew Israelites hadn't really written any Source material or anything of that nature, and it's just sort of books. And that was my perception. Yeah.

Yeah, well what I would say is, Michael, is that maybe you're looking at you know, you're trying to find The needle in the haystack, and there's a pile of needles that's like right next to it.

Okay.

Because there's a massive, there's a ton of material. I mean, I'm a historian, so my library is filled with books written by Israelites that have maintained this tradition, not Hebrew Israelite, you know, white man on the corner. Right, that's what I was referring to. Right, right. Right, right, okay.

Because, for example, there is a book that today I think it goes online for upwards of $200. It's written by a Hebrew brother named Jose Malcyon. He was born in Panama to a Moroccan Hebrew mother. And he if you see him, you would say, this is a black man. You know, he might have the curly hair or what have you, but he looks not too much different than I look, okay?

Now in this book, he's written over 400 pages. And it's called the African Origins of Modern Judaism. And what he does is he pieces together ancient African traditions and traditions of black people from around the Caribbean and around the area of Africa that have carried on these traditions, and he documents this in this massive text.

Now there are a lot of books that I could mention. I could mention From Babylon to Ten Buck Two by black Jewish historian Rudolf Wenzor, Moses Farrar. There are so many. But let me just give you a little basis for the historicity of black Jews.

Now when we talk to our Ashkenazi brothers, right, I mention and I talk and I'm regularly in those communities and interact. And I hear them say, for example, I was talking to one rabbinic leader and he said to me, Oh, I can trace my roots all the way back to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. I said, Well, can we have that discussion of how you can do that? I said, I'd like to go down that line with you. I've got all day.

And he was like, well, That's not important. What's important is how we practice our Judaism. See, everyone has tradition. Everyone has this tradition. You mentioned on one of your shows about how your original family name wasn't Brown, but you didn't know exactly what the original name was.

Right.

Well, the only way that you know you're Jewish is because there's a Jewish tradition that was handed down to you from your parents and so forth. But we don't have the temple documents anymore that have been destroyed after 70 CE.

So we have to know DNA testing as well.

Well, that's possible, but that's where those of the Limba and the Venda of Uganda and other parts of South Africa took the test, and they found the Y chromosome that was related to the Kohanim.

So it has been done.

So it's not like there are no black Jews or Hebrews in the world that have taken DNA tests to find that this is the case.

Now the thing is, the oral tradition is what's important because It tells us something.

Now, do we base everything that we do on oral tradition? Of course, we know not, because I know your position on actually the Torah Shed El Kei, right? The law from Sai that was oral law.

So now here's the piece. The Ethiopians have a book book called The Kiber Nagoth. And in this book, it's a history of Ethiopia. And they mention this tradition of being descendants of Menelek I. Who was a son of Solomon, and Makeda, who is commonly known as the Queen of the South or Queen of Sheba.

And this is one of their most, you know, Highly held beliefs on their origin. I'm just going to give you a couple of traditions. Yeah, and by the way, Haile Selassie was considered to be of the offspring of Solomon and the Queen of Sheba. Right.

You are correct.

Now, let's go back a little further though.

Now you have um a man by the name of Mahmoud Khati. And he writes in a Arabic manuscript called the Tariq al-Fatash. And he writes about Jewish communities in Ghana, Senegal, and Mali. And he speaks of this one dynasty of Ghanaian leaders that are called the Za. and the chief leader of the Zah Empire was Zah Eliemin.

which we know to mean Zah the Yemenite. And he was the leader of a Yemenite dynasty that was in Ghana that bordered on the Niger River.

So that's very interesting because we're not talking about European people. We're not talking about people from other areas of China, India. We're talking about people right smack dab in the middle of West Africa.

Now there is another man by the name of Abdurrahman bin Abdullah El Sadi, and he writes a book in the seventh in seventeen hundred called The Tariq al-Sudan. And he reports that there's an Israelite community in Mali that's called the Bani Israel.

Now, there's a website called the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, jta.org. They did an article on the Bani Israel. Yeah.

And these are the. That's pretty well known, actually. Yeah.

Yeah, and they were found in the Senegalese bush. But what's interesting, Michael, is that they're Muslim, and they say they don't want to become Jewish. They do not like to speak of their Jewish heritage. And the writers of that article in JPA said that, you know, actually, it was not to their benefit to even say that they were because of the persecution. Stay right there, we got a break, we'll be right back.

It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Welcome back friends. To the line of fire. This is Michael Brown on this thoroughly Jewish Thursday. Any calls you have, Jewish-related, Israel-related, 866-348-7884 is the number to call.

I'm speaking with Sar Sharat Masayahu, who traces his origin to African Jews or African Israelites who came over to the United States via the slave trade and maintained certain Jewish traditions that were passed on orally. And we're asking the question, okay, there is one thing, a Hebrew-Israelite movement that you might run into on the streets of cities in America that can be militantly racist, that can have a black supremacist argument, and that does not come. Claim ultimately or trace similar roots. My guest is coming from a different perspective, and we're Having an interesting discussion about origins.

So, Maseyahu. Just so I understand something, and again, radio is limited time. We have breaks and segments and things like that. But as you understand the origins of the Israelites, right?

So going back to the very beginning, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Who, of course, come from Abraham, from Mesopotamia into Canaan. Uh When you understand that history, are you looking at them more as? And this is a very secondary question, okay? But I'm just curious to know where you're coming from.

Are you looking at them as more African-like or more perhaps Middle Eastern like as we would see today or more Asian? What's your perception in terms of your understanding. We we would see these people coming, as you said, you know. Abraham Lovinu coming from uh Mesopotamia, Erv, the Cal D Um what is modern day Iraq moving across Tigris, Euphrates area, moving into the land. of of Canaan Um these were uh people and when you go back you get you have to look.

that there was a Cushite empire that was established East of the Nile. And a lot of people may not be familiar with that. Rudolf Windsor, in his book, Babylon the Timbuktu, discusses it at some length, about this Cushite empire that was established. And you read in the scriptures about the Kushim with a double Yud, and it's in reference to the Kushim near the two rivers. Um There is history that shows that there were people from continental Africa that actually set up some inroads into that area.

We know seventh century BCE that Taharka definitely goes not only through Egypt, but goes into the land of Canaan and goes into the land of Mesopotamia.

So we see one of the first countries that still exist today mentioned in the Torah actually was Ethiopia or Kush.

So there's been a long traditional relationship between Africa and that area that today is referred to as the Middle East. I don't like that term because I don't know where the Middle West is. But that area there. And so we refer to people from that region generally, linguistically, as Afroasiatic. And that term is also used in some instances in the scholarly writing for the culture of the people also.

So there's always been a mixture. And that's why you see that Joseph comes into Egypt, Messiah comes into Egypt, Isaiah 44 talks about the Judaites who go into Egypt. You constantly see this connection between Egypt and Israel. And you even read about in Isaiah how the father says he's going to pull his people out of the land of Egypt, out of the areas surrounding.

So there's been a constant relationship between those groups of people.

So I do not believe that any of those people historically were European. I don't believe that. We agree on that. Clear enough. All right, tell you what, I've got one more question for you.

And my purpose was not to debate, but to have a discussion and find out where you're coming from. And we'll take your calls. But I've got one more question for my guest, Sar Sharat Masayahu. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome to the line of fire. This is Michael Brown. Blessed to be with you to this day on this thoroughly Jewish Thursday.

Just having a very interesting conversation with Sarah Sharat Masiyahu. I've discussed some issues in terms of Israelite origins, in terms of what we can determine about ethnicity or color of skin or whether these things matter. I've encouraged everyone, whatever your own skin color, to picture Jesus or the disciples or the patriarchs as a different color than you just to see how you relate to it, because a lot of people ended up having to relate to a European Jesus, which is the one thing we know for sure is not. Accurate.

So, Maseyaho, one last question for you. And again, my goal is not to debate the issues, but to hear your perspective. As far as your own traditions, the community you came from, who was Jesus Yeshua to you? Is faith in him something more recent, or is that passed down? Where does that come in?

Because historically, obviously, the majority of the people of Israel rejected Jesus the Messiah.

So just curious to know where that fits in in your own history and tradition. All right. Well, Michael, I'll answer that question as briefly and completely as I can. And if there are any questions and if you wanted me at any point to answer any by any callers, I'm available for that just to let you know. As far as the Messiah of Israel, within those who carry on this this tradition.

Um there are two groups, and there are those who are called Tanak Only. Or we used to call them Torah only. And then there are those who are Messianic, or Meshikarim.

So now I come from a tradition of messianic, and we believe in the Messiah of Israel.

Now, I've talked to you before online, but I don't think you knew that it was me, and I had questions about philology and word morphisms and things of that nature because we hold to the name of Yahushua, HaMashiach, and we know the traditional pronunciation is Yahushua or Yeshua in its shortened form. And I understand your point of view on those things. But that's a part of the tradition also that has been given down to us, and we stand by that tradition. We believe that the Messiah of Israel is the central focus. The scripture says we are complete in him.

And so when the statement is made in the scripture that there is neither Jew nor Greek, male or female, it doesn't mean that males cease to exist or females cease to exist, et cetera. But it simply means that in our faith and our ability to accept the redemptive work that he did at the place of the skull over 2,000 years ago, it doesn't matter whether you're a male or a female, whether you're black or white, a Jew or Greek, it's faith in him that makes the difference. And if we put our trust and confidence in the Messiah of Israel, and trust in the sacrificial offering that he did on our behalf, then he can transform our lives and create in us a new heart, a new way of living, and we can have a powerful, resonating effect upon the rest of the world by the example that we live. Got it. Yeah, loud and clear.

And yes, sir, I was not aware that we had interacted. Most of my online interaction has to be very brief. Unfortunately, I can't get into things in more depth. But thanks for drawing that to my attention. And thanks for sharing that.

Tell you what, since we have a caller with a relevant question, stay right where you are. And we'll go to Dallas. Ian, welcome to the Line of Fire. What's your question for me or for my guest? Uh, it's Actually, just kind of providential, I didn't realize you were going to have the guest on that you have today.

Um I'm a I typically I go witness out in Dallas Fort Woods area And it's I've been a couple of times now. I'm not, I don't know anything about your guest, so I'm not sure if he's. in the uh dhi or any of that i don't i don't know so i don't know yeah yeah we we we discussed that that's the very first thing i asked him to clarify but but he um he gave me the most detailed uh background that we've yet had presented on the line of fire about the origins of the various groups the black hebrew israelite groups etc so that he's he's coming from a very very different perspective but but go ahead with your with your question Sorry, I I don't want to go too far off what you guys are talking about. But, anyways, I was uh I've interacted with one group Um They were a little more calm. I think they were the GMS group, the Great Milestone group.

They were a little more calm and a little more easy to deal with, but still very racist. And then I went to Dallas a couple of weeks ago with some friends of mine into a predominantly black area, and they were out there, and I mean, they were. They were calling, and I'm a Jew, I'm actually Jewish, so bringing that up to them did not go very well. No, no, and uh, it hasn't gone well for me over the years either.

Well, uh, anyways, they're calling me devil and I mean, they don't they don't care to have any dialogue. It's all monologue, and then they scream at you if you're white, and then they they say, See, we just scared him off with his tail between his legs. It's like you can't even talk to the guy.

So, well, I'm wondering. There are some groups that do Do a little more dialogue like that first group that I dealt with. Uh and I just need I've heard uh James White And uh um Another guy he had on there went over a few things, and I saw he had a debate with a guy from GOCC, and I got some information from that. him and Vocab Malone was on there and had some guys Um That used to be in the group.

So, what I'm really asking is: do you have any resources like books or Sermons or lectures or anything that I can go to in case I run these guys again, and I just be more. Prepared knowing where they come from, I don't really know enough about them, even after listening to all that. Yeah, so I'm I'm gonna give you my answer and then I'm gonna let my guest uh join in as well. Uh I'm I'm supposed to start debating some of their leaders in the days, weeks, months ahead. That'll help flush things out because there are different groups with different beliefs.

And because of that, you have to find out which particular group you're dealing with and what exactly they do hold to. The CARM website, C-A-R-M.org, they keep expanding the material they have there.

So if you check out CARM.org, of course, the James White debates. There's nothing I have, though, as far as an extensive teaching I've done on it or. a major video presentation or anything.

So in the days to come, God will then we want to serve the body by helping equip in these areas. That is distinct from those who would say they are African Jews and who have Practice Jewish tradition through the centuries, and some of whom, like my guest, are believers in the Messiah.

So, Masayahu, is there anything that Gives an overview of some of these recent radical racist groups. Any literature or things that you would point to that would be educational for a believer? I would say I was shocked by the caller saying that GMS was the calmer of the group. They are the most wicked. Of all the Hebrew-Israelite groups.

They teach things such as child rape and various other things of that nature. I would never even interact or waste my time talking to them because they are reprobates. Uh the only thing you can do i is to pray.

Now What I would say is, if you want some information, some good books to just give you some background, there's a now some of these books, I don't know how available they are, but there's a book called The Hebrew-Israelite Diaspora. That was written by a man named James H. Boykin.

Okay, that's a very good book, sort of giving you some history there. There's another book written by Cohane Michael Ben Levy. And he wrote a book called Israelites and Jews: The Significant Difference. And what these two books will do is give you a little bit of background on the starting of some of the groups. and sort of give you some of the basic beliefs.

But unless you're really led to do so, getting involved with groups like GMS and IUIC and other groups like that, it's just not going to be fruitful because they already believe by the color of your skin that you're condemned. And so therefore, their only point is to try to ridicule you on camera and make you look bad and use you as another notch on their list. You can also contact me as well and I can give out my phone number at the end of the show and also my website, leadingbyhistory.com. It's going through some renovation right now, but you can actually go there and I can supply you with information via the website also. Got it.

All right, Ian, thanks for the call. Yeah, I made the mistake one time in New York City. I don't know if it was a mistake. I might do it again if I felt led to, but I ran into these gentlemen preaching on a street corner in the early 90s and the whole odd outfit and all of that. And I asked a question.

I said, hey, if. If the Jews, if none of us are Jews, why did Hitler try to exterminate us? And they came up with some kind of answer. I walked away, and then I just felt led to go back.

So I went. Back of their midst. And I had to raise my voice because they had the mics. And I said, These men are deceiving you. Jesus preached a religion of love.

They're preaching a religion of hate. And we need each other. And I said, the black man, the Jew, we need each other. We've both been at the bottom of the barrel. We need each other.

Anyway, the thing I miscalculated was I was the only white person in the crowd, and the listeners were pretty stirred up.

So they started chanting death to the white man. And anyway, I mean, I did try to reach out, but let's just say we didn't have a substantive theological discussion. Hey, we don't like to give out phone numbers on the air, but if you could just give the website again, folks, it's under construction, so that means go back and it'll be improved. But give us the website again. And if you want to find out more about the origins of these different sects.

We're talking about the radical racist sects. Again, you have radical white racists, radical black racists, but they share a hatred for Jewish people, interestingly enough. Give us the website again, please. All right, yeah. LeadingbyHistory.com is in speedly format now while it's being updated, but it'll be up and running in a couple of weeks.

All right, so check it out then. All right, fascinating discussion. I'm sure we'll talk again. God bless you. Yahushua Brakata.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Hey, just want to say a few things.

Uh there are guests that we bring on. And the purpose is debate. They know I differ with them. They know in that sense they're going to be in hostile territory, but I'll be as fair as I can. with them.

There are others that come on where I have a different perspective. and want to hear where they're coming from. Or where I don't really know what perspective they're coming from and going to find out. And that was the case largely with my last guest.

So the purpose was not to debate And that's why my goal was not to push back that the the proper pronunciation of the Lord's name is is Yeshua, not Yahushua or or Yahshua or different things like that.

So I just want to make that want to make that clear But my goal was not to have a debate. And again, the point that we agreed on was that the ancient Israelites did not look European and they were not of European origin.

So, I mean, that's a major point we'd want to make. And, you know, Billy Graham one time was preaching to a black crowd. He said, hey, Jesus was darker than me, lighter than you. That's the way I understand it. But either way, it's all ultimately not the issue.

It's not the issue. And yes, there is a tradition in various African nations. You can go to Nigeria. And you'll meet Nigerians. that observe the Sabbath.

They practice the Sabbath. And they pray Jewish prayers. Where did that come from? At what point in history? Many would say well it go goes back a couple thousand years or twenty five hundred years and there's there's debate about lots of these things and then if they want to come to Israel and become Israeli citizens.

Well, there's the right of the return for a Jew.

So, are you a real Jew? And in many cases, the rabbinic authorities would say, Yes, but you have to do a little bit more, so we accept you. And then others would say, Well, where did your traditions come from? We never heard of them.

So, your traditions are later, so there's always debate about that. But I especially appreciate the care with which. My guest is research things. There may be points made where I'd have a different take. But what's especially Informative to me was, he wasn't on for this purpose, but explaining some of the origins of this Hebrew-Israelite movement, which is something very different and is often joined together with extreme racism.

And then you have white groups, and they claim to be the original Israelites, and then they have an anti-black racism.

So you have this one group says white man is of the devil and there's no salvation for the white man, another black man is the devil with no salvation for the black man, and yet they both claim to be true Israel and they both hate the Jews.

So you know where that stuff comes from. But Something strikes me, and I just want to mention this on a larger spiritual level. Uh point here. Have you ever heard the saying that heaven and the at one and the same time will be a great eye-opener. and a great mouth.

Closer? A great eye-opener. and a great mouth closer. That there will be many people that you see there that you did not expect to see. And there will be many people that see you that will be shocked to see you.

So the same thing with the people of Israel. You can go to to Israel and here meet Chinese Jews. An Indian juice. And African Jews. And European Jews And yet they all have definite ties back to the people of Israel.

at different times in history. Through intermarriage. uh in some cases through proselytism. And they became part of the larger community of Israel. And then, because of the place in which they lived, Now, more and more people of similar color, similar background became part of their community.

So, there is a diversity. What I take issue with Is when someone says to me, Well, you're not Jewish, you're Oskenazi, and that's just European origin, that goes back to the Khazars who converted. have a small percentage that would have ultimately made up of the Jewish people in the Jewish nation. And in fact, what's interesting is that Through history, people are not really vying For the right to say, hey, we are Jews, therefore hate us. We are Jews, therefore exclude us, we are Jews, therefore put us out.

And I can pretty well guarantee you. That in Nazi Germany, you would not have had a Hebrew-Israelite movement coming, we're the real Israelites, come and kill us. Uh that being said There are those that have centuries of tradition and those in different countries around the world. Uh you find it in in the Spanish-speaking world. That there are communities where the Christians have continued to observe a seventh-day Sabbath or circumcise their kids on the eighth day, and they say, We've done this for generations.

And you trace it back and find out that they were forced to flee from Spain or flee from Portugal during times of Inquisition or things like that. They have Jewish roots, they became followers of Jesus, but they did not lose sight of their Jewish roots despite persecution that they experienced. And some of the persecution even came from the church. In other words, you cannot have any Jewishness and be part of the church, which is obviously a complete perversion of the gospel. Anyway, we will continue.

To discuss these things, we will have some debates with these groups that we vociferously differ with and do our best to expose their error. And maybe one day I can break it down on radio as to why we believe Yahweh is the right pronunciation of God's name or Yeshua the right pronunciation of the Messiah's name. But ultimately, these things I think you all agree are secondary. to the recognition of who he is. What it means to be born again in him and to be in him and to make him known to the world.

I think that we agree on is what matters the most.

So, let me remind you again: if you're in the greater New York area, Brooklyn, tonight, I'll be doing a really eye-opening talk on Isaiah 53, the rabbis and the messiah. I think you will thoroughly enjoy that, be enriched by it. It's possible that we will do a live Facebook video.

So, tune in a few minutes before seven, go over to my Facebook page, ask Dr. Brown, A-S-K-D-R-Brown, if we're able to. We will do a live feed. And to get access to tons of information. Teachings I've done, videos, articles.

Go to my website now, ask Dr. Brown, A-S-K-D-R Brown.org. And start searching through the digital library. It is super extensive. It is filled with free information for you.

Archives of my teaching, of videos, of articles, thousands of resources there for you.

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