Thinking God's Thoughts About Israel, the Word, and the Church

I am poised to function as your voice of moral sanity and spiritual clarity. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. You know, there's something about the word of God and the truth of God that it's kind of like a holy slap in the face, if you know what I mean. Oh, it wakes you back up.

Oh, it startles you. Oh, there is reality. And I want to do my best to function in that capacity today on the line of fire, serving you and helping you, bringing that truth to light again. Oh, it sobers up. It helps us wake up out of the stupor and the confusion that surrounds us.

Michael Brown, welcome to the broadcast. It is my joy to be your voice. Of moral sanity and spiritual clarity in the midst of a society and chaos and a church, all too often in compromise. Here's number to call. 866-3.

348-7884-866-34-TRUTH. A bunch of things I want to talk to you about today. But first, encouragement to all of my listeners right now that love the Lord, that are followers of Jesus the Messiah. Please pray for my Jewish people. Maybe you're Jewish as well, your Jewish people, but please pray for the lost sheep of the house of Israel, especially beginning tonight.

24-hour period, little over 24 hours, Yom Kippur, the day of atonement. For traditional Jews, the holiest day on the calendar. Even non-religious Jews will be in the synagogue a lot. And traditional Jews, this is hours and hours of prayer and repentance and asking God for mercy and confessing sin after sin personally and as part of the community of Israel. And we honor the sincerity, we honor the zeal, but we recognize that without the shedding of blood, there's no forgiveness.

Without the atoning sacrifice, there's no forgiveness. That the Yom Kippur ceremony centered around two goats, one that was killed for the sins of Israel, the other that was sent away into the wilderness to bear the sins of Israel, to carry them away. Jesus Yeshua, the Messiah, fulfills both of those roles and does it so powerfully and wonderfully that when you find forgiveness in him, amazingly, remarkably, incredibly, the guilt is gone. Maybe you're listening as a Jewish person. Maybe you're.

A Hasidic Jew, a from Jew, and you're listening in secret in Williamsburg or in Borough Park. or somewhere else in New York or in the States or maybe even in Israel. And I just want to remind you, God did not leave us abandoned these many years with the temple destroyed, with the khorban of Beita Mikhail Shashani, the second temple being destroyed. God has not left us without atonement. He sent his son, the righteous one, the Messiah.

You've heard the teaching, the death of the righteous atones. If you're a traditional Jew, you've read it in the Talmud. He's the ultimate, perfect, righteous one. He died in our place. He took all the guilt, all the wickedness, everything we've done wrong, the secret sins that we're so ashamed of that only God knows about.

He took every one on his own shoulders and died in our place that we, through him dying to sin, could live for righteousness and experience forgiveness, atonement, and cleansing, and the guilt disappearing in a sense of a clean new heart beyond. anything you could imagine. If you call out to him, If you say, God, I want to follow you and your Messiah, whatever the cost, whatever the consequence, help me to know the truth. He will help you. He will give you the strength and the courage.

You can tell him, look, I'm afraid. I'd lose everything if this is true. My family would reject me. My community would reject me. Just remember, that's a small price to pay to be part of the family of God.

And perhaps you can be the one to help lead your family and your community to Jesus the Messiah. Call out to him while he's near. Yes, this is a time of the nearness of God as Jewish people around the world seek him. May hearts and minds be opened to the reality of Jesus Yeshua being the Messiah of Israel, the One. He pays for our sins and takes them all away.

We come back, I've got some strong words for Christians who are minimizing, justifying, base, vulgar talk. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on the line of fire, 866-3487. Eight, eight, five. Yeah.

Something has grieved me these last few days. It shocks me even though I shouldn't be shocked by now. But Donald Trump's comments on tape revealed, and I talked about it yesterday. I have an article about it. Just go to thelineoffire.org and look for the latest article.

I'm not shocked by his comments. to Billy Bush in 2005. I mentioned that yesterday. I'm not shocked, because that's who I understand the man was. I understood him to be vulgar, I understood him to be uh One that would Objectify women, you know, just evaluate them on their bodies or sexuality, whatever.

I'm hoping that's not who he is today. But certainly that's who he was. Not that he treated every woman like that. But that's exactly who I thought he was. The guy who made money with casinos and had this massive strip club in the midst of one of his casinos and yet didn't feel the need to ask God for forgiveness in his life, the one who boasted about adulteries with other women in the past, famous women.

So I I'm not surprised. to hear that content at all. That's what I would have expected from him. What surprises me? is when Christians minimize it.

Professing Christians. professing followers of Jesus. People are supposed to be men of God, men who love the Lord, and therefore by definition, men who love purity. and men who honor their wives and honor women. and treat others with respect and dignity.

And don't think in those crude terms, let alone speak in those crude terms. I see. Posting by Christian men, minimizing this.

Now again, my issue is not Donald Trump. That's a whole separate issue. And my issue is not, well, did Bill Clinton do worse? That's not my issue. Or what would happen if Hillary Clinton was president?

None of those are my issue right now. Those are completely other discussions, discussions we've had before, and we'll have again. in the few weeks leading up to the elections. My issue is with Christians. With followers of Jesus who are called to be like Him, who are called to put aside darkness, who are called to walk in the light.

who are called to be people of purity. People of sexual purity to just minimize it.

Well, just locker room talk, we all get caught up in what? Christians get caught up in talk like that? It's one thing if a Christian guy said, Hey, I got to watch my eyes. Yeah, I'm married, but I got to be honest. I see a pretty girl walk by, I got to watch my eyes.

Fine.

Okay. Agreed. We have to watch our eyes. You know, I was watching this TV show and it was a football game, and they showed some cheerleaders. I checked them out.

I felt sorry before, oh, okay, human weakness there. And I gotta be more careful with my eyes and not let things go wrong with my thought life.

Okay, fine. But to say, well, yeah, what's the big deal? Just talk, just locker room talk. We all get caught up in it. Who all gets caught up in it?

Listen, when I was in the world, I was a foul sinner when I was in the world. Maybe I was too young to fully talk like that. I was 16 when I got saved, but we were vulgar. We were in sin. We were living ungodly lives.

But even then, Maybe we didn't have the star power, you know. But to talk about women are doing things, you just do this or that to them, and they let you do it. You know, I mean, we didn't, we didn't talk. talk like that. We are foul sinners.

So Let me read some scripture to you, all right? And don't say, well, we're not perfect. Fine.

Understands we're not perfect, and God is the one who puts this in the word. Ephesians 5.

Well, you know what? Let me back up. Ephesians 4.29. How about this? Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouth.

But only such as is good for building up as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. You mean to tell me, Christian man, I'm going to talk about women. in those vulgar sexual ways, talk about the things they they want to do to women in those vulgar sexual ways. You mean to tell me there's any possibility your heart and life could be right with God and you engage in trash like that?

And that wouldn't grieve the Holy Spirit of God. Yes, there's forgiveness in Jesus. Yes, there's repentance in the Lord.

Sometimes even believers do ugly things, but we don't justify them or minimize them. We grieve over them, we repent before God and man, and then we seek to live different lives. Ephesians 5, beginning in verse 1. Therefore, why? Because we've been forgiven through the cross.

The imitators of God. as beloved children. Does God engage in that kind of talk? Can you be an imitator of God and just sexualize others? Can you be an imitator of God and talk about them in vulgar terms?

How would you feel? My dear brother, If you're raising teenage daughters, if you knew that your neighbor who claimed to be a Christian talked to his friends about your daughters like that and where he wanted to grab them and what he wanted to do to them. How would you feel towards your Christian brother? Maybe your wife's thirty years old, attractive woman. How how would you feel if they were talking about her like that?

I mean, come on. Therefore, be imitators of God's beloved children, and walk in love. as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering. and sacrifice to God. But sexual immorality, and all impurity, or covetousness must not even be named among you as is proper among saints.

Shouldn't it be named among you when people talk about sexual scandals and sexual immorality and greed and Shouldn't even be named among us. Oh, that doesn't happen in our midst. No, no. When you think of us, you don't think of that. At all.

Here, when When you think of the Amish, okay, these people living in Pennsylvania and other parts of the country with this extreme, antiquated, conservative lifestyle, I don't mean the conservative is antiquated, but horse and buggy instead of a car, living in very, very simple ways and things like that. When you think about the Amish, You don't think about them saying as yeah, they're on the cutting edge of cell phone technology and intranet communication. No, not the Amish. You don't think about them in those terms. If you think about ultra-Orthodox Jews in Brooklyn, say, and these men studying Torah and Talmud all day, you don't think, yeah, those guys, they are your next top MMA fighters.

Those are the men, yeah. No, no, you don't think of them in those terms. In the same way, When it comes to followers of Jesus, sexual immorality, impurity, covetousness shouldn't even have any association with us.

So let's keep going. Let there be no filthiness. No foolish talk. nor crude joking, which are out of place. But instead Let there be thanksgiving.

Gutter talk among us. There shouldn't be any crude joking or foolish talk among us. Filthiness For you may be sure of this: that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous, that is, an idolater. Has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. If people live in such a way that these things are the characteristic of their lives, either they've never known the Lord or they walked away from the Lord.

Either way, they are not of the Lord. And they have no inheritance in him. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not become partners with them for at one time you were darkness. You a lot of us were foul, vile, ugly, profane, despicable sinners.

At one time you were darkness, But now you are light in the Lord. Walk. As children of light. One man called my show years ago in the early days of radio. He said he got saved out of a similar background to me, but he had lived in his longer.

So he was a drug addict and drinking heavily for years. He got saved.

So he knew immediately. There was trash to get rid of. He knew immediately, okay, stop drinking, stop doing drugs. That was obvious. Maybe sleeping around, whatever else he was doing, stop that.

But then there were many other decisions in life he had to make, what kind of entertainment was appropriate. What kind of relationships with people were appropriate? What type of life choices were appropriate?

So he talked to a pastor about it, and the pastor said, Well, look at the issue, look at the choice, look at the decision you're making, and ask yourself, is this light? Where is this darkness? Is this light? Or is this darkness? And he said, wow, it was amazing how few things were left to do.

But if you can do it out of love for the Lord, not in a legalistic bondage, but out of love for the Lord and gratefulness for his redemption in your life, boy. Is that a wonderful way to live? All right. I've got a lot more ground to cover, but I've got a question for you. I've got a question for you.

I was never into the whole birthrow that Barack Obama was born. in in Africa. I never got into that whole thing. I saw evidence. Could it be true?

I don't know, whatever. But I was never into this, oh, we got exposed. It was really born in Africa. But I never thought of it as a racist accusation. I just thought that it was said that he was illegitimate.

Right? That that he was he was not. Born in the States, therefore, he couldn't be the president, just like the accusation that Ted Cruz was born in Canada. But I never associated. the the birth of thing with racism.

Am I missing something? 866-342. It's fire we want, oh fire we It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks so much for joining us on the line of fire. My joy, my great joy to be with you. You say you say that a lot, Mike.

Well, it's my great joy to be with you on the line of fire. 866-348-7884. I did a short video yesterday, some reflections after the debate. And I Uh Nancy watched it today and sent me a note and was not happy with it, feeling that I was, I minimized things about Trump or his lack of real apology. And I said, you know, we've been talking about things on radio and I'd written about stuff and I've blasted him enough.

I wanted to focus on other things. And, you know, I said I'd watch it again, but I said all this to say this: is that. Women may have an even more acute perspective. Of the gravity of Donald Trump's comments. The last thing I did was dismiss them, and she understands that.

But my thing was to focus on other stuff in the debate. Because we we've talked about the the tapes and all that, and why should we s be surprised? That's the man he's been in the past. Why should we be surprised in the least? If you're endorsing him, you better know who you're endorsing from the start.

Course, there's going to be all kinds of serious baggage. But again, my point is. that a woman's perception of this is going to be more acute than a man's in most cases.

So uh Beth Moore uh has has led a cry of evangelical women who are splitting from men regarding Donald Trump. Here's an article by Joshua Dubois on the Daily Beast.com. Beth Moore doesn't spend much time on politics, the enormously popular evangelist. Her sermons and conferences sell out arenas and printed Bible studies of perennial bestsellers. Is more likely to be found helping women understand the life of the Apostle Paul or tweeting about her husband, new granddaughter, and two adorable dogs.

But something changed for Moore after Donald Trump, the Republican nominee for President of the United States, was caught on tape bragging about his ability to sexually assault women. When Trump said, When you're a star, black, black, black, black, we've heard all that. She said, I'm one among and by the way, I just don't want to repeat it again. She said, I'm one among many women sexually abused, misused, stared down, heckled, talked naughty to, like we liked it. We didn't.

We're tired of it. She also had a word about evangelical leaders still supporting Trump. She said, try to absorb how acceptable the disesteem and objectifying of women has been when some Christian leaders don't think it's that big a deal. That's the issue to me. If they say, of course it's terrible, of course it's wrong, of course it's horrific.

And under no circumstances do we minimize it. We're grieved over it, but we understand that's. The man he's been, we're not surprised we're we continue to preach to him and preach repentance to him and urge him to really. to be an honorable man in every way. We just believe he's a better alternative to Hillary.

That's one thing, when you get the impression it's no big deal. That's what Beth Moore and other women are rightly referring to and rightly stating 866-348-7884. By the way, the response to my Twitter question. Overwhelm I posted this just a little while ago, so it's only the first hundred votes. I never embraced the Obama quote birther movement, but I also never saw it as racist.

Did you see it as racist? 80% said not racist, 13% not sure, 7% racist. And I wonder how that breaks down. Boy, I should have asked people if there was a way to identify their ethnicity and color, because that would be interesting to know. But let's get your feedback.

866-348-788. Eight four. Let's go to New York. Is it Ada? I'm not sure how to pronounce your name.

Ade. Ade. Ade. All right, Ade. Thank you.

Go ahead. Ah. I'd have liked to address a breadth of question, but Right now, I just want to address the the Trump thing. Yes. First and foremost, Trump is who he is.

But for me, the greater damage is being done by the evangelical pastors Who are Perils in this man. and supporting him. Because and if I may read this to you right out of Second Timothy, But know this. That in the last days Perry times will come. for men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, Boasters, proud, blasphemers.

Disobedient, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderous. without self-control, brutal despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness. but denying its power. And from such people turn away. And then this is interesting as it links to second Corinthians eleven.

Where it says Satan at the For such a false appearance, Puzzles. Deceitful workers transforming themselves into apostles of Christ, And no wonder for Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light, Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness Right, so yeah, just to understand then, your issue. is that they are making him into a A paragon of Christianity or a savior kind of figure? Exactly. In other words.

They are saying It's only human. You know, but he's still a Christian. Therefore He is to be supported no matter what he does. But his conduct is telling us, out of the abundance of the heart the mouth spaketh. Got it.

Right.

So, so you're if they said, look. We find his comments deplorable. We know he's not a Christian, but we believe he's a better choice than Hillary, and we're speaking into his life and calling him to repent. And that would be different than minimizing it and trying to paint him As a Christian. By the way, thank you for reading those scriptures, which speak very powerfully.

I want to get to a few more callers, but loud and clear, Ade, thank you for weighing in. 866-34TRUTH. We go to Karen in New York. Welcome to the line of fire. Hi, thank you for taking my phone call.

I also would like to comment on the Trump thing. When people say it's not a big deal to many Christians, I want to say let him who is without sin cast the first stone. What Trump said 11 years ago, and he's being crucified for things now. Maybe he matured and maybe he didn't. But the bottom line is we need to choose between the lesser of the two evils.

And when Um Secretary Clinton. Did what she did in Benghazi, and then she turns around and says, What's the big deal? What difference does it make now? When she. What what difference does it make to those families of of the Yeah, horrific utterly horrific comet.

Absolutely horrific comet. Right.

Where nobody is denying that Trump is not the perfect candidate, nobody is denying that he's A poor representative of a Christian, nobody's denying that he's said and done stupid things. But our government is not It's not just one person pushing all those buttons, one person making, he will have a cat. Of people of the best of the best advising him. The president, even Obama, he doesn't do everything well by himself. It's what the rest of them let them do.

Yeah, and by the way, I apologize for having to cut you off. I'm just out of time. The problem is when people present him as a Christian or minimize his weaknesses and sins. But yeah, I fully agree. You've got to look at the larger issues and then weigh things accordingly.

That's why I couldn't vote for Hillary, and that's why Trump could win my vote, but Hillary. couldn't.

Alright, a lot more to talk about. Keep listening at thelineofire.org. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to the line of fire. In a few minutes, I'm going to be joined by apologist Sean McDowell.

A lot to talk about in terms of defense of the faith and how evangelicals are perceived in America and whether intolerance can ever be a good thing.

So we'll be joined by Sean McDowell shortly. Just want to grab a few more of your calls. Here's what I agree with. It is absolutely wrong to present Donald Trump as St. Donald and this paragon of Christian virtue and a wonderfully changed man.

However, to say I am looking at various factors and categories. I will not vote for Hillary Clinton, but for the following reasons, I'll vote for Donald Trump with my eyes wide open.

Okay, fine. That's not my argument. My argument is to minimize what he's done or to minimize the wrongness of it, to gloss over it, and then as believers to be associated with him, and people think, well, what's with you guys? What's with you guys? If we're going to be associated, let it be with clear parameters and caveats.

All right, that's my issue. Let's go to Stephanie in Melville, Long Island. Thanks for calling the line of fire. Hi, how are you? Doing well, thank you.

Um I just I think the the colour prior to The one Uh I necessarily do. Was right spot on. I mean, the thing is, it's just there's something called integrity. And it's named. that you know Christians for the We've arrived at Donald Trump because we've allowed for the quote unquote leaders to kind of lead us down a path.

Where we got stuck with something as ridiculous as Donald Trump. Donald Trump does not show the moral. Or two. that we would need from any leader. At 59 years old.

Who you are is pretty much that. And it's I'm not sure if I can do it. A man is saying that he's going to touch a woman in that way, there's no excuse. We have to have standards. It can't be, you know, just because everybody has sinned and all of a sudden we can't we can't have an opinion.

Because if that's the case, then there are no standards. There's nothing to stand for. We have to be able to say, you know what, this is absolutely wrong. Everything that comes out of this gentleman's mouth. Does not represent Christianity, does not represent us.

Why are we sticking behind him? Why did we allow ourselves to get into a position where he's the only choice? We had John Kasich, we had a number of other people that were better, but yet we let leaders, we let people who like the limelight, who want to be on Fox News, push us into a situation. Yeah, that's a good idea.

So we're gonna have to stand kind of Like behind trucks. We don't have to stand behind us. We don't have to stand behind any of these people. We have to tell the truth. And sometimes the truth hurts.

And we have yesterday I heard another commentator from the same news station as you say. that oh it was a pot Wait, they said what? Yeah, Stephanie, you cut out. I'm having a little hard time hearing you.

Someone said it was what? What Donald Trump said it was That he simply I had a potty mouth. That you know, I prefer a potty mouth into the things that I'm talking about. All right, got it. Here, tell you what, yeah, let me weigh in just because we have a break.

First, uh trust me, I feel your heart and your passion. and you speak for a whole lot of people. I would say That evangelicals getting behind Trump during the primaries to me was an indication that we were more moved by nationalism. and populism And this notion of make America great again, as opposed to being primarily moved by moral values and by kingdom values and by things like that.

So I point the finger at ourselves, not just at leaders, but yeah, to minimize. Look, it's one thing if you say, look, I know, I know, I see the flaws, but I still believe I'm going to vote for him for the following reasons. Versus Hillary Clinton for the following reasons. I can respect that, but don't minimize, don't gloss over. That's why I wrote this whole article and put out a video.

Why are people so surprised by the take? That's exactly who the man. Was, maybe still is, and it's utterly excusable. And for a Christian to minimize it, means there's something wrong in our relationship. with God.

Thank you for weighing in. Gains the world O God of burning, cleansing flame. Send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. All right, from the political scene, we switch over to another aspect of the moral and cultural battle, but one that starts with the scriptures and goes out and touches the society. My guest, Sean McDowell. Is a professor, assistant professor in the Christian apologetics program at Biola University, popular speaker at schools, churches, and conferences nationwide, the general editor of Apologetics for a New Generation and the Apologetic Study Bible for Students, and the author of other important works dealing with apologetics.

Sean, great to have you back on the line of fire. Hey, doctor Brown. Thanks for bringing me back. This is fun. My joy.

Yeah, we're making it a family thing. We had your dad on just a few weeks ago as well.

So it's a joy to have you on the air. Sean, when you talk about apologetics for a new generation, what generation are you talking about?

Well, we're really just kind of talking about culturally where we're at today.

So not so much just millennials or Generation Z or boomers. I'm talking about how do we do apologetics in our increasingly secular culture. in which It used to be if you're an American, you love baseball and apple pie and you're a Christian.

Now, if you take your Christianity seriously and actually believe it, You're extreme, you're irrelevant. And in some circumstances, you're kind of dangerous.

So how do we proceed and do evangelism and apologetics and really ministry in this culture that's changed pretty substantially right before our eyes? You know, Franklin Graham was speaking recently, a few months back, and someone asked him the question, well, why are you addressing these cultural issues? Your father didn't address them like you do. And he said, look, when my father was growing up, they read the Bible in the public schools. Uh, Professor Darrell Bach made the comment that years back you could say it's true because it's in the Bible.

Now you have to say it's in the Bible because it's true.

So a lot of the presuppositions that a previous generation had, our generation doesn't. And it's beyond that. All out Unashamed hostility. towards God in the scriptures that we're dealing with.

So, Sean, without compromising our faith, without apologizing for it or watering it down, how do we defend the faith and reach out and cross these barriers at the same time? You know, it's really interesting. You mentioned Franklin Graham and kind of the legacy of his father. You had my dad on. And my dad in the sixties and seventies and 80s and even early 90s did a lot of Debates and discussions on college campuses.

And originally, when he first started debating, people would say, prove it, give me evidence, show me that's true.

Now, when he starts presenting the case for Christianity, people will frequently say things like: well, what right do you have to say that? That's intolerant. You're a bigot. And there's been this cultural shift about how people even think about truth.

So in some sense, we kind of have to do an apologetic for apologetics. We have to convince people, which they know deep in their hearts because Romans two, one and two tell us we're made in the image of God. But here's what truth is. Here's why we need to follow truth. Here's why it matters.

And just convincing people that reason and truth and evidences are ways we can get in touch with reality. And I think the key is, especially for Christians, we need to do as apologetic as much as we've ever done it. But there's such a sense that Christians are hateful and bigoted and out of touch. I'm really convinced that our kindness and our graciousness and our gentleness and our relationships speak more today than they probably ever have been. Especially in American culture.

All right, so Sean, before we talk about what we can do right and live out and demonstrate that kindness and love, which is not something that we learn, oh, here's the technique, it just has to be the expression of who we are. But let's start with: if you had to be brutally honest, what are some things you think we're doing wrong or we've done wrong? We know the world is against us. Jesus said, If the world hates you, remember it hated me first. We understand there's a spiritual battle.

We're not looking to be loved by those that crucified the Savior. But certainly, as a church, as leaders, on some level, we've done things wrong or we're doing things wrong. Where do you think you could really point the finger most at some stuff that maybe we haven't done the best way?

Well, I think there's two ways we can look at this. One way we can look at what we haven't done as good as we can with the outside world. And second, what we haven't done as good as we can with this younger generation and with inside the church. There was just a a a post yesterday that came from the Pew Research And it was talking about how a high percentage of people who call themselves Christians and go to church. their theology is essentially heretical.

I mean, the many people that go to church that think the Holy Spirit is not even a person. the number of people who say Jesus is God, but he's also sin the number of Christians who say there's many roads to get to heaven I mean, the first thing I would say within the church is before we try to fix the culture outside. We kind of got to get our house in order. And we have not done a good job of just teaching biblical theology and a Christian worldview in all areas of life.

Now, when it comes to outsiders, I think as a whole, one thing we've done is we've kind of shielded ourselves and created this culture war. It's us versus them. We throw rhetorical bombs, so to speak. And I think the most effective strategy you cited Daryl Bach, and he just said today, when people hear the term that Christians are bigoted and hateful and homophobic, their first thought needs to be, you know what? I know a Christian.

And Christians aren't that way. That's how we begin to change this narrative.

So in-house, I think theology, I think worldview, we need to take seriously rather than entertaining this generation. Training this generation. And then outside, we need to get out of our comfort zones. We need to build relationships. And I'll tell you a story.

I was speaking at a conference recently, Dr. Brown, and a lady raised her hand. She goes, I don't know what to do with my kids. Every time I take him to Disneyland, It's gay day. She goes, What do I do?

I don't want my kids to be corrupted. That's how she framed it. And I paused, I said, you know, now that you mention it, I might plan to take my kids to Disneyland on gay day. She goes, What? Why would you do that?

What if What if they say something to offend them? I said, Then you teach your kids how to say you're sorry. I said we can't run from this world that's around us. Jesus calls to be in the world, but not of the world.

So we need to step out of our comfort zones and just build relationships with people. hopefully let them see Christ through us. Yeah, so when it comes to the sin of the world, we come out of the world. When it comes to reaching sinners, we go into the world. And obviously, we don't put ourselves in a dangerous situation, or, you know, a guy doesn't go into a strip club to reach a stripper.

You know, we understand that. But there are so many ways that we can interact with the world, interface with the world, and demonstrate the love of God. As I always say, if you cut us, we should bleed love.

So we need to ask God to break our hearts and give us His heart for a lost and dying world and whatever issues we stand for, be it abortion, be it God's intent for marriage, whatever it is, we need to ask God for His heart for those that we're differing with, and that people can see that and feel it.

Now, at the same time, though, Sean, and you're going to give a presentation on this at the Southern Evangelical Seminary Apologetics Conference, which is coming up this weekend. In fact, you'll be speaking on Friday. The beauty of intolerance. You're not saying that we should become wimpy and like, oh, everything is fine. We don't want to hurt your feelings.

I put it as we need hearts of compassion, backbones of steel. Those are my words, but talk to me about the beauty of intolerance. Oh, that's a great way of putting it. Essentially, what's happened is we live in a culture where instead of having genuine conversation and debate, People just silence others by calling them names. Oh, you're hateful, you're exclusivistic, you're bigoted.

silences conversation. We're trying to help Christians kind of slow down and think through what we mean by terms like tolerance. What really is dignity? What does it mean to be inclusive? And should we be tolerant or should we be intolerant?

Well, my dad made a pretty provocative shirt where the front says. tolerance is a beautiful idea.

Now I've worn that around, Dr. Brown. You should see the looks that people give me. Like, are you thick in the head wearing a shirt that intolers the beautiful idea? But if you flip it around, the back of it said says Mother Teresa was intolerant of poverty.

Bono was intolerant of AIDS. Mandela was in torrent of classism. Jesus was in torrent of bigotry. saying in a sense that All of us are intolerant of something. Intolerance in itself is not a bad thing.

So, the title is just meant to shake people up to get clarity on these terms because, frankly, taller choice to me, and I disagree with you, but I still love and respect you.

Now you're in taunt if you even think that somebody is wrong. And we need to call people on that and be willing to have these conversations to clarify some of these misunderstand terms. Yeah, and again, we have to be with people. And engaged to have these conversations. And I told your dad, he mentioned the shirt on the show.

If I recall, it came up then. And I said, I didn't know that was yours because I remember seeing a pro-life activist wearing it in 93. And I saw the front and I thought, yeah, that's typical. I mean, this guy's in your face. And then the back, you know, Martin Luther King was intolerant of racism.

And I thought, wow, look at that. I didn't know that your dad had come up with that idea. And of course, you've written on it. All right. When we come back, I want to talk to Sean McDowell about.

The fate of the apostles, and he's going to be presenting on this as well at Southern Evangelical Seminary.

So, to find out more, again, the conference is this weekend. If you can't get there, you can stream it on your computer. Go to conference.ses.edu. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Alright, we we've all heard it said. that if the apostles just Imagined that Jesus rose from the dead, or worse still, concocted some false story to cover up the fact that their Savior, the one they were trusting in, had died.

Why would they then die for their faith later on? Certain point and think, okay, this isn't working out. And we may, you know, we're if it was selling well, we'd go with it, but it's going to cost us our lives. I mean, forget it. And so that's been a good argument that's been used to say, yes, of course they saw the risen Messiah.

That's why they were willing to die for it because they saw him, they met him, they experienced him. There was no question.

Well, my guest, apologist, author, conference speaker Sean McDowell is going to be giving a presentation on the fate of the apostles at Southern Evangelicals. Apologetics conference, which takes place this weekend.

So, Thursday is for ladies only, then Friday, Saturday for everyone. Go to ses.edu to find out more.

So, Sean, obviously, in just a few minutes, we can only get a little bit of what you're going to present there at the conference. But is it mainly myth about the early apostles and their fate, or can we be pretty confident about what happened to them? What do you think?

Well, I was sitting at an event with some high school students on an apologetics mission trip to Berkeley, and we brought in some. atheist to speak to our students, and I train my students how to defend their faith. And this is about five or six years ago. One of my students goes, Well, why would all the apostles die if it was just a myth? And the atheist guy, a friend of mine, he goes, Give me some proof that any of them died as martyrs.

And like in unanimity, they turned and looked at me, and I was like, I don't know. I've heard this argument. People have talked about it. I've heard pastors preach on it. I've never really examined the evidence to see if it's reliable.

Well, that launched me into my doctoral dissertation. published it as an academic book. And I think the bottom line is, Dr. Brown, I think we can make an argument for their sincerity of belief. their willingness to die.

I think we can show that at least some of them died. But I think a lot of the stories that we've passed on in Christian circles are really five, six, seven hundred years removed. And a lot of them are just probably myths.

So what I aim to do in this session is just talk about, okay, what do we know about Peter, about Paul, about some of these leading apostles? Is this actually a good argument? Does it help us know the resurrection? What really happened to these guys, and how do we best make this point? to advance the resurrection and ultimately the gospel.

What do you feel most confident about? in terms of the apostles dying, martyrs deaths. I would say probably the Apostle Peter. We have two references in the first century in John chapter 21. And then in Clement first in his his letter Uh First Clement, the letter that was written about ninety five, ninety six AD, And then I think we have about seven or eight sources in the second century.

And there's a consistent, unanimous story That Peter was martyred for his faith. And there's no contradictory stories apart from that.

So I think that is we have high probability in that. I think we also have very high probability for Paul. I think we have good evidence for both James. James's son is evident in Acts 12. Then James, the brother of Jesus, is mentioned in Josephus and some other sources.

And I think Thomas and Andrew are at least maybe more likely than not. And the rest of them, I think, are legendary, they're late, they're contradictory. And we really don't know what happened to him, to be honest. in terms of where the evidence points. Right, so it's not we're saying that we know that they just went off on a cruise, spent the rest of their life whining and dining, and it was a myth they're martyred.

We just don't know for sure the fate of a number of them. The thing that is so interesting is that you have key leaders where we feel very sure that there's good evidence saying that they were martyred for the faith. And if you think of, say, the best-known Christian leaders in America, For the last hundred years or 200 years, none of them were martyred. And you think if you're in England, the greatest leaders of the day there and the Spurgeons and the William Booths of past generations and then other leaders in the 20th century and now into the 21st century, the same deal. Not martyred, and you'd have to go over to Syria or you have to go over to India or Africa or other countries where Christians are regularly getting martyred.

But this was the reality. For that New Testament faith, and yet. Things grew rapidly and supernaturally, which attests to the reality of what the Holy Spirit was doing and the reality of Jesus rising from the dead.

Well, I think that's right. And the distinction we have to make Is leaders today, you and I, we have good reasons for what we believe, but we were we are not eyewitnesses of the risen Jesus in the way the first apostles were.

So somebody for Buddhism or Islam can die for that faith, that just shows they're sincere about what was passed on to them, second, third, fourth hand. that the apostles saw the risen Jesus And the key is not so much that we can prove they all diet as martyrs, But if you look in the beginning of Acts, we see that they, number one, believed in the resurrection. And number two, they were all willing to suffer and die for that. There's no record any of them recanted. And we have good reason at least to believe that some of them died as martyrs.

So this doesn't prove Christianity is true. But I think it's one piece of the larger argument that says, you know what, these guys weren't making this up, They weren't inventing this. They're not liars. They really believed they had seen the risen Jesus and they were willing to go pay the greatest price. to pass on that truth than to show the depth of their convictions.

And they gave proof to what Jesus said, unless a grain of wheat falls in the ground and dies, it remains alone. If it dies, it bears much fruit. Hey, Sean, if folks want to follow your work, find out about your books, other materials, where's the best place to go? Sure, I would say Sean McDowell dot org. Sean McDowell.org.

All right, and that's Sean S-E-A-N, Sean McDowell.org. Hey, I will be away during the Apologetics Conference, but great blessings to you, and may the Lord wonderfully use you in the next few days in the Carolinas. Hey, thanks for having me on and keep up the good work, my friend. Yes, great to talk to you again. All right.

Again, friends, that was Sean McDowell. The conference will be held and hosted by Southern Evangelical Seminary. To get the details, ses.edu. You. All right.

Uh I'm part of a video that's a compelling video. about the city of the great king, The controversy surrounding the city of Jerusalem. Past present and future. And this video is just coming out now. We have it on DVD, or you can download it directly and have it to watch just.

Well, within minutes of downloading it. And you can also download with it my. My lecture on Is Israel an evil occupier? Every so often I go back to the PowerPoint I used that night when I delivered this lecture at University of South Florida to pull out quotes from it and anecdotes and illustrations because I felt that I delivered this with greater clarity and ever to explain. The Jewish people in the land today, not so much from a prophetic viewpoint, but from a historical viewpoint, and to explain the legitimacy of the claims.

It's a real eye-opener. And then we're interviewing some of the other folks that were part of the City of the Great King DVD and putting that together on a CD for you.

So, to order, go to the line of fire, thelineoffire.org. You'll see it right there. My bottom line today. We have a faith worth living for. and worth dying for without flinching without fear.

From Jerusalem to U.S. politics. Oh yeah, we've got you covered today on the line of fire. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

My guest is a New York Times best-selling author. Perhaps you've read his books um The Islamic Antichrist, or when a Jew rules the world. He is an executive producer for the Covenant and Controversy series and appears. On these videos, these DVDs as well. And the new one just being released this week, I'm on it as well.

The city of the great king Focusing on Jerusalem Why should this matter to every single believer? It's not just Well, right now is a special time of the year. Tonight begins Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, where Jews around the world would be already starting in some parts of the world fasting, praying for forgiveness and atonement. A great time for us as the body of Messiah to pray for the opening of the eyes, the opening of the hearts of the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But.

It's more than that. This is something that should be year round. Why the church should care about Israel? I want to talk to my guest, Joel Richardson, about that, and we're going to focus on Jerusalem. Joel, welcome to the line of fire.

Dr. Brown is It's a pleasure to be with you. Yeah, thanks for joining us again. Joel, you're not Jewish. don't come from a Jewish household.

How is it that you have gotten such a tremendous burden for Israel? And the Jewish people, and feel that this is important for the body of Christ as a whole. Sure. Started Probably twenty some odd years ago, shortly after I came to Faith, I had a Messianic Jewish teacher at the Bible school that I was going to and really just through his influence. The Lord opened up my awareness of what I was doing.

I'll call the thoroughly Israel-centric nature of the scriptures. And so for me, the the relevance, the importance, the centrality of Israel. It really is an issue of simply understanding Uh culmination of God's redemption. plants. you know A lot of Christians, I think, the issue of Israel, the issue of Jerusalem, it's detached from the gospel.

For me, the One of the reasons that I feel it's So absolutely critical. Yeah.

one of the points that the film makes is that Yeah. This is not merely a geopolitical nation state. that this is a peculiar peculiar people in which is tied the culmination. Of the gospel, the very gospel itself, as I said, the culmination of God's promised plan. not just for that piece of land, but literally for all of creation.

So basically If you care about the end of the story, if you care about the climax of God's purposes for the world, if you care about the return of the Messiah, then you care about Israel and Jerusalem. Yeah, it's really just a matter of aligning our heart with the things that God's heart. R are in tunes with You know, um Yeah. it's very easy, you know, as I said, we get caught up in sort of I guess what I'll call sort of a uh A minimalistic gospel. Most often throughout the church, the gospel is sort of summarized is you know But God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son.

That um The idea is that someday we die and go to heaven forever. But the fact of the matter is when you actually read the words of the prophets, When you read the gospel, if you will, as it's been verbatim, by the prophets. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's actually a very substantial message, and it involves. the literal redemption of a very you know specific city through which all the nations of the earth would be blessed. And so if we want to discern what is unfolding in the earth today, we want to discern and understand why Satan is so enraged with this particular nation. We need to understand the theological history behind what is unfolding right now. And unfortunately, like I said, much of the church just is not there.

Yep. All right. We've got a break. We'll talk theology, but we'll talk politics. Everything we're talking about today is of relevance for us today as well as for tomorrow.

Give us strict to always do what's right. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Come, come em and rent some captives. Is right. I'm speaking with New York Times best-selling author Joel Richardson, also filmmaker and teacher. We're talking about the brand new video, City of the Great King. To find out how to get that packaged together with my lecture, Is Israel an evil occupier and some of these interviews with different leaders involved in the City of the Great King?

Go to thelineoffire.org, thelineofire.org, and you'll see it right there on the homepage. Joel, I'm Obviously, we have to be careful when we look at prophecy and contemporary events, but having studied the scriptures carefully over the years with a focus on these issues, in broad strokes, what do you see happening where biblical prophecy is being fulfilled in front of our eyes? You know, I I like the analogy of the hurricane. came from hurricane terror. And I've I'm in Tornado land.

But you know Hurricanes they start out is this tropical Yeah. And next thing you know, you have this this storm that is engulfing you know the whole east coast or you know all of uh the southern states or so forth. Israel in many ways is like that. The scriptures say that Jerusalem will be it's a it's a burdensome stone for all the nations. As the wards plans of redemption are unfolding.

Eventually all of the earth is going to be pulled in like a magnet Into the controversy that surrounds Jerusalem. you know, in very broad strokes I always Make the sort of silly little Shay I say listen. if God is done with Israel. it's very clear for anyone with just a little bit of discernment That Satan has not received the memo. And so the point is, we can understand, we can discern, we can see the rage of Satan as it's swirling around Israel.

and it will only increase as we get closer to the completion of the Lord's plans when Jesus himself will actually come back and as the scriptures say, Yeah. The throne of David. And it's from that very location that the God of heaven and earth. is going to rule all of the earth. Of course Satan's up.

Why do you think there is so much world controversy? Over the city of Jerusalem. There is no other city worldwide whereby the whole world wants to divide it up a certain way. Everybody's got an opinion about it. I mean, you've got regional conflicts, national conflicts around the world, but nothing that parallels this.

Why does the whole world care so much about Jerusalem?

Well, I I think it's because, you know, and I I hate to I I hate to sort of keep going back to Satan, but The scriptures say that Satan is the God of this world. And so, of course, we can point to all sorts of various natural reasons. We can say, well, The reason that Islam is so focused on Jerusalem, we could point to various historical events. But again, I think if we have discernment, we recognize that there has been a satanic hand that has essentially been guiding history which is which is fomenting this controversy. And so, whether it's through Islam, whether it's through the anti-Semitism of the church historically.

or through the UN or any of these things, we can see that there is a very real A devil who is actually pushing and stirring up this controversy. Apart from that, There's really no logical basis to say why is So much controversy raged. Hatred. and division. Focused on this one particular city.

There's really No other way to Explain it. All right, let me come at this from a different angle, Joel. You're married with five kids.

Someone living in the States says, Look, I got family to deal with. We got everyday life issues to deal with. One of the kids is really sick. You know, I cut back on hours of my job. It's hard to put enough food on the table.

We got crazy political elections coming up.

Some of us just went through a hurricane. Why should I care about it? All right, so whatever's going to happen in Jerusalem, it's like big to God, but he's going to take care of it. Whatever's going to happen is going to happen. What does it mean to me?

Unfortunately, Joel, you know that many American believers think like that. You know, how does this affect me? And that's my only real concern. But if it's going to just happen anyway, God has his plan, Satan's going to lose. Why should believers care?

Do we actually play a role in what happens?

Well, absolutely. And of course, the church is that they are the, you know, we are called to be the watchman on the wall. We're called to. just sound the alarm and so forth. And so Yeah.

Storm coming. And yes, there's going to be various events that are going to punctuate everything between now and the return of Jesus. It's going to be all sorts of events. But in the long term, Paul warned, he was very clear in Romans 11. He says, listen to you Gentiles.

You've been brought in by grace. You've been brought in by mercy. He says if there's one issue that you don't want to get wrong, you don't want to follow into conceit, arrogance, or ignorance. It's with regard to what I'm doing with Israel. And historically, we look at the long history of the church, and this is probably, this is the biggest issue that Paul warned about.

yet this is probably the biggest issue that we have fallen down on. You know, if we're in nineteen thirty Germany, And you're warning of a storm coming. There are very real heart issues. that the church need this theological issues which are behind the hard issues that we need to be prepared. Because if we don't, in the same way That those Christians that we look back now and we judge the German church, you know, it's so easy, they failed so miserably.

But yet we, by and large, as the church, we're doing nothing different to prepare for this controversy, which as I said, is only going to get worse in the days ahead.

Well, let let's Not go far afield, but just switch directions a slight bit. You've looked a lot at Islam in recent years. You've looked at Islam in the Middle East, and you've even written about the potential of an Islamic Antichrist. What do you see happening in the days ahead with Islam in the Middle East?

Well, you know, unfortunately, um I'm a pretty conservative American and I always you know, tell the story after 9-11 how George Bush stood there on The rubble of the World Trade Center, and he said, you know, these folks are going to hear from us soon. And, you know, the whole nation cheered. And I was on board. I was all on board with we need to go in and take out Iraq, he's violated all these UN promises and so forth. But right now, as a result, not just of what the United States has done, But through a vari you know, through a handful of of uh trend.

The entire Islamic world is trending radically toward jihadism, toward radicalism. you look right now, ISIS, this group, they've recruited nearly thirty five thousand young people. you look at the church in America today, have we have we raised up three thousand missionaries, young missionaries that are going to the Middle East to give themselves to the gospel? ISIS, radical Islam is winning the propaganda war. They're winning the hearts of many of these young Muslims.

you know, you go back twenty years ago, It's it's just sort of assumed right now.

Well, radical Islam has always been a problem. You go back twenty years ago, fifteen years ago. And it was well, uh let's go back seventeen years, but let's go just before nine eleven. This was not a problem. As American foreign policy, we were supporting the Taliban because the big issue back then was was the Soviets and so forth.

And so I I see radical Islam as exploding, as metastasizing throughout the nations. And my God, as voices, as leaders in the body of Christ, we need to be saying, What is it that they're appealing to? What are the hard issues that they're appealing to among the Muslim youth? And what is it that we are failing to appeal to among the Christian youth. Because I want to know that my life mattered and that I influenced a generation to give themselves to the gospel.

And um and so you know Islam's doing it, but I am afraid that much of the church today we're doing just the opposite. We're losing. Uh you know just stiff. Statistically, we're losing our youth.

Meanwhile, they have they have a revival taking place. Yeah, it is a revival and it's a revival of death and destruction. And yet, Joel, you remain confident that right in the city of Jerusalem, the most divided, contested city in the world, the purposes of God will stand. And despite the rages of radical Islam and other forces, we've got less than a minute before the break. What's your goal?

What do you want to see accomplished through the new video, The City of the Great King?

Well, you know, again, I think I always say whoever controls the narrative controls the argument. And right now, the argument, the controversy over Israel, it's really been. taken hold of by those that are opposed to Uh Jerusalem or who embrace and espouse replacement theology. Those of us who are voices, who are leaders in the church, the youth in the church, we need to reclaim the narrative. We need to bring the narrative back.

To that which was proclaimed by the biblical prophet. I want to lay hold of this present generation and snatch them out of those that deceptive snare of replacement theology. that is truly blinding them to the gospel. It's blinding them to the very substance and the conclusion. of the gospel.

All right, we come back. I want to talk with Joel Richardson about that very issue. What is blinding the younger generation in standing with Israel today? We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Jerusalem. Uh Oh, Jerusalem.

Wow. Mm-hmm. Jerusalem, Jerusalem. This is Michael Brown speaking with best-selling Christian author Joel Richardson. We're talking about the brand new DVD.

We're both on it. Joel was an executive producer of it, The City of the Great King, a real eye-opener about the controversy over Jerusalem. Joel, right before the break, you mentioned replacement theology, the idea that the church has displaced Israel. and the promises that were given to it.

So, for example, the modern state of Israel is not a divine restoration or there are not future purposes for the nation of Israel, those who have been displaced by the church. You say that this in particular is hurting young people, young Christians, and blinding their eyes in terms of the nature and identity of who Israel is and what God's doing among the Jewish people. Why do you think this is especially prevalent among the younger generation?

Well, you know, again, as I said, he who controls the narrative controls who wins the debate. Mm-hmm. You know, see you go all the way back. to David and Goliath, you know. this is a story everyone can relate to.

It's it's the young revolutionary against the you know, the behemoth And you know, you step. Forward Jesus against the religious act. Aristocracy, this young preacher.

Well, today, you know, you have your average. You know, let's say kid going to seminary, let's say he's in his early twenties. And he's looking at this debate. And the way it's most often framed, you know, you look at the way it's being framed by those at Christ at the checkpoint and so forth. And it's on one side, it's protection.

trade is sort of know the generation of my father you know the sort of the uh the Texas bap Baptist Bible Belt, you know, the Bible says, you know, God in America and Israel. match made in heaven, this sort of thing. And on the on the other side you have this very soft spoken British Anglican vicar who's just Waxing eloquently about how he once was a dispensationalist, but now he's Actually, spent time in Israel and he's been with a suffering Palestinian Christians and so forth. And you know, of course, this young twenty-five-year-old, he's going to look at those options and he's going to choose the thoughtful. replacement theologian with an Oxford PhD and this sort of thing.

And so it's so essential, you know, and yes, of course, there's voices out there, there's voices like you, and there's others. But it's it's so essential that those who are voices take back the narrative. and highlight the fact that while having this veneer of humility and this emphasis on justice, What is actually behind it is very real racism And an actual demo. demonically empowered theology Which Conveys a God who is not faithful. And this is really what it boils down to.

As ambassadors of the gospel, as ambassadors of our Father, are we conveying a God who is faithful or are we conveying a God essentially and and I'll just use the analogy, But who got tired of his his pre Bride and went out and got himself a new model. because that's exactly what replacement theology essentially conveys, is that God divorced that old Israel and He got Himself a new bride. And this is the witness that we're giving to the earth, and we need to take a hold of the narrative and bring it back and say, no, no, no. the message of God's faithfulness to Israel, that is the message of justice. That is the message.

That is community. communicating. the character of the God that we want to communicate to the world. Yeah, and of course, well said and clearly said, Joel, what What I believe is has happened And to kind of come at this from another perspective is I was born in 55, but that was very close to the birth of Israel. And 1967, the Six-Day War, it was clear God was defending our people and fighting for our people.

And I remember having a friend of mine whose parents were Israelis, and during the Six-Day War, they were listening to what's happening on the radio. And I'd go over to his house to play basketball. And we were both 12 years old or so, and the parents were so tense over things. And then the victory, and it was God fighting for Israel. And look, you know, the horrors of the Holocaust and the church being so ashamed, and now Israel rebirthed, and a miracle.

And well, people who grow up today, Israel's old hat. Israel's been here forever to them, and And Israel, they're the ones with nuclear arms. And Israel, they're the ones with all the military expertise and all the backing of America and all that. And these poor Muslim Arab nations, I mean, what do they have?

So it's extraordinary that things have been turned around the way they have. You know, look, this terrible, brutal wall, this horrific wall, as opposed to here's a security barrier to keep murderers and snipers and terrorists out from killing and maiming innocent people.

So it's it's almost as if the younger generation Loving justice, wanting to side with the victim and the underdog, has bought into a partial narrative, a micro focus that is so micro, it really misses the forest with the trees because of the trees. And that's where we have to say, of course, we care about justice, and there's a larger issue. When you look at it this way, you'll see that one group does want to see it and the other really doesn't. Joel, do you think that the city of the great king helps put things in better perspective for believers? You know, I think so.

I think not only is the film put together in an A really stunning, you know, artistic It really is a work of art. But it's also communicated in such a way, I think, that the younger generation can. Mm-hmm. Um it it's It's not trying to cut corners, you know, it's not trying to simplify the message. In fact, it's very Fairly uncompromising.

This is a meaty. Uh a film. but it really does communicate a lot of the issues that you and I just talked about. That this is This is an issue of justice. This really is an issue of just You know, and it's interesting that you mentioned the issue of justice for the Palestinians or for the Arabs or for the Muslims.

You know, the film is primarily created by a team of people most of whom are actually giving themselves to to the Islamic world, who have actually moved their families into the Muslim world. That's their primary focus.

So this is Most certainly not an issue of Israel versus the Arabs. This is an issue of walking out the gospel you know, in a Pauline manner, which recognizes that this gospel is first and foremost to the Jew. And the reason it's first and foremost to the Jew is because that is the manner in which God has ordained. his unfolding plan of redemption. You know, we'd like to say that it's universal and it's just, you know, it's just for everyone, and of course it is.

But in order to accomplish that, that global plan of redemption, he chose one man. He chose a man named Abram, and he turned him into a family called Israel. And he chose a city. And that may offend some of us, but this is the way God always works. He chose you and He chose me.

I'm just this week. struggling brown seed, so to speak. the glory and the beauty of who we will be after the resurrection. I mean, that's unfathomable. And in the same way that the city of Jerusalem and the nation of Israel today, it's the It's a it's a city of contradictions and religious uh strife and ethnic strife and so forth The glory and beauty of what it will be when God Himself comes back and dwells there.

That's what we need to communicate and fix our eyes on and understand that That's the goal. That's what we're working toward. Yeah, Joel, I appreciate you laying that out clearly. Appreciate you joining us today. My guest, Joel Richardson, the new, brand new movie.

The City of the Great King. Powerful documentary, I'm on it, Joe Richardson on it, other friends, colleagues on it. Real eye-opener. Go to thelineoffire.org to find out how to get that resource packaged together with a couple of other very important, life-changing resources regarding Israel and the Jewish people. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr.

Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Let's also remember that the yellow star that Jews wore in the Holocaust was first something that they wore in Muslim countries. That they had the status of Dimis, which is a second-class citizen status.

Now here they are in the land of Israel, and Hajamin al-Husseini, who became a colleague and comrade of Hitler, famous pictures of him together with Hitler, working together for the extermination of the Jews. Those are comments made during my lecture. Is Israel an evil occupier? This is a time to be thinking about Israel. This is the time to be thinking about the Jewish people because Yom Kippur has already begun.

Some parts of the world in the land of Israel right now. It is now 10:30 in the evening. And there are Jews that will still be in the synagogue or praying at the wailing wall, what's just called the kotel the wall to religious Jews. There'll be others who will be home now in the midst of a fast, just starting the fast a few hours back and getting ready to go back to the synagogue for a day of prayer and repentance, asking God for mercy, confessing sin in the most contrite way. By the way, if Donald Trump confessed his sins To God and man, the way a traditional Jew will, at this time of the year, he could go a long way in terms of finding the grace of God.

Great time to be praying for the Jewish people, that God would open hearts and minds, that my people would recognize that with no temple, with no sacrifices, God has been saying there's a better way, there's a better way, there's a better way. Forgiveness has come in the person of Jesus, Yeshua. the Messiah. By all means, pray for Israel. And our special resource offer this week, you can get my lecture, Is Israel an evil occupier?

There's a little history to that. I was asked to debate a Muslim or Palestinian activist at University of Central Florida about Israel. Did Israel have a right to the land? Was Israel an evil occupier? Did Israel mistreat the Palestinians?

We couldn't find anyone willing to debate us.

So instead, I was asked by a student group there to just do a lecture on this. I remember before the lecture started, a man came up to me with a backpack, a young man. I thought he was a student. He said, just want you to know I'm part of the security here I'm carrying. If any incidence happens, we got you covered here.

We got this guy over here, this guy over there. They wouldn't even let me do open mic Q ⁇ A. I had to answer questions, submit it by card because they just thought I could be dangerous with open mic or someone coming up and approaching you and whatever.

So we didn't even do that. But I did this lecture. We had a great facility to do it. They got this massive place because they wanted to fill it with a debate. And I thought, Okay, if we're not doing a debate, just a talk.

Maybe we'll get 50 people or 100 people, so let's do it in a small location. But instead, we this monstrously large, beautiful location on campus. And because I had these big, big screens behind me, so we've got a great PowerPoint presentation. And it's really eye-opening to see what Islamic leaders said in 47, 48, see what Jewish leaders were saying, to look at some of the history leading up to the modern state of Israel. You'll find it really.

Informally, even the map that we put up at the beginning, where you see tiny little Israel surrounded by Muslim and Arab nations, and Israel's land, one 650th of the surrounding Muslim-Arab nations.

So, when you get this, we're packaging it together with a brand new DVD, the City of the Great King. I just want to mention it now to make sure I don't forget it later. Just literally hot off the press. You can download these directly so you didn't have to wait for the DVDs. And then, some special interviews with those who were part of this new DVD about Jerusalem, the city of controversy, the city of the Great King.

To find out more, go to thelineoffire.org. Thelineoffire.org to find out more. We come back. Yes, we're going to talk. Presidential politics again and I want to find out From a spiritual advisor, an evangelical Christian.

who's been an advisor to Donald Trump, not an endorser, but an advisor. How's he feel about what happened over the weekend? What kind of counsel is he giving to Donald Trump? Is Donald Trump listening? Where's the Evangelical Church stand today?

Be joined with James Robinson. I'm eager to hear what he has to say. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thank you for joining us once more on the line of fire.

So I've been writing, talking a lot about What's happened in the last few days with our presidential politics? I wrote an article yesterday, why all the fuss about The tape with the vile, despicable comments by Donald Trump 11 years ago. Didn't everyone know that's who he was when they endorsed him? Didn't they know that's who he was at least 11 years ago? Why the shock now?

Now, of course, we want to see complete contrition. I wrote an article with King David could teach Donald Trump. I understand there remain large issues that we're looking at with a potential Hillary Clinton presidency and how do we decide what to vote on. But I'm really curious to get the spiritual side of this more than the political side. And I can't think of anyone better to speak to about this than my dear friend and colleague, James Robinson.

James, thanks again for taking time to be with us on the air today. I love you and respect you and I just think that we've got to be very careful. The big test today, more than The national. And by the way, I'm getting the cop feedback, my voice repeating. I don't know if y'all can hear that.

But anyway, the thing that's more important even than what we're watching in the political scene is the way Christian leaders tend to treat each other. Are passing judgment on one another when they don't even know what the others are actually doing. We need to be praying for each other. I know there are a number of real strong spiritual leaders that agreed to offer advice to any candidate that invited them in and they've been invited. And now they're being criticized for even trying to give, let's say, wise counsel to someone they haven't endorsed.

which I think we better be doing that to every candidate and every voter because it's obvious that people need wisdom. And yet, Christians talk about each other. Just like you wrote about I told you from the get go, I don't believe it's best or wise to endorse a candidate. I think you just tell them the truth. Because if you do endorse, then all the other people who may have picked up uh Santorum or Rick Perry or Mike Huckabee or Ben Carson and Those people think that, well, you've already said you're wiser than them and you've done this, and now why should we listen to you when you tell us what you think?

So I always just try to hold up truth to all of every candidate. And I say I don't endorse, I'm going to endorse and embrace truth and exalt it and hold a standard up for everybody. But if you were lit and you felt like you were, I don't have a right to judge your heart or Ben Carson's heart. Because you might actually be the person that opens the door to that candidate's heart. where they would hear all of us more clearly.

We got to be very careful about the way we mistreat each other. See, I think the real test today. is whether or not the Church of Jesus Christ is going to actually look like his body Connected to one another, properly aligned and submitted according to their divine giftings, and all of us together submitted to the one head, Jesus Christ. And whether or not the family of God is going to actually behave like the children of the perfect Father. I think that's the real issue.

And so I'm trying to build harmony among leadership. I'm trying to ask them to take away the Pharisaical tendency to judge one another according to your own place in your spiritual walk and actually be unkind. The other thing is, and you know, you talked about David and the way he was so contrite. Consider this. He had an intimate relationship with the Lord while he was a shepherd.

He spent so much time with God, but even David was not contrite. and broken until Nathan said you're the man with a simple story. And then he broke rightly so. And he could express himself far more appropriately than, let's say, some man that has not had an intimate walk with God. And then let's take Simon Peter.

When he denied Jesus three times after boasting he's the bravest man on the planet. And when Jesus confronted him, I don't see him saying, Oh Lord, please forgive me. I'm so sorry. It was so terrible. It was rotten what I did.

It was despicable. He just simply answered, basically, Lord, do you know the truth? You know the truth. You do. You know the truth.

And the Lord every time said, Feed my sheep. And who of us today in the ministry world? Would have ever approved Simon Peter, who denied Jesus in such short time to never see publicly how much he had repented and changed. And he would be the keynote speaker at Pentecost. Which of all these ministers would have put their approval on that?

I think we better be very, very careful how we try to determine what Almighty God may be doing with something that the rest of us don't even see clearly. And let me just go on record and say this. whoever I'm speaking to. I embrace, endorse and exalt truth to that person. I do it faithfully, I do it fearlessly, and I do it forcefully because that's my demeanor.

It's the way God made me and designed me. And I have done that with Donald Trump, and I will do it as long as I have breath in my hair, and I will do it to Hillary Clinton. I will do it to every voter, and every person, and every church member. I will proclaim the unadulterated word of God without apology, even if it's calling me to repentance. I'm going to declare the truth and pray that we respond to it in brokenness and submission to the will of God.

That's my prayer. And in a time like this, when you were speaking to Donald Trump, you're speaking to him as a candidate. But you're speaking to him as a human being who needs the Lord.

So, right now, if I was Donald Trump and you were speaking to me, I was guilty of this, these comments leak out from 11 years ago, these shameful comments. And I call you on the phone and say, brother, what do I do? What would you tell me if I was Donald Trump?

Well, he did do that, and I did tell him the truth, and he was broken, and he was contrite. And then he goes in the room with all the people who are trying to tell him how to appropriately say everything. And although he started his speech the other night with very appropriate statements, there wasn't the contrition. You've got an exhausted man who's been going too hard. He sat for several hours With all of these other counselors, and there wasn't a lot of great spiritual power in that room because we don't have spiritually powerful people in the political echelon because the church has told them, Oh, stay out.

It's so bad, stay out.

So we don't have people in the right places. But then he comes out exhausted after an hour of being on redo, redo, redo to try to use a teleprompter straight on, it looked natural. And it didn't come across contrite. And then to say it's locker room talk, that's absolutely unacceptable. It's not acceptable to the gutter.

And so for us to know, and this is what he hears from me. there has to be an a little renouncement that that person And you must not be held captive by your past. None of us should. And America must not be, and current leadership and past leadership has led this nation to become a prisoner of past rotten decisions. And we must not be held captive by the past, and we must not choose leaders Who made us a prisoner to all these rotten decisions and policies and practices?

We're going to break free from the past. I'm going to break free from the past. We're going to do it together. And that's the kind of thing that needs to happen deep down in everyone's spirit. We will not be prisoners of our past rotten decisions and inappropriate practices.

So that's the kind of message I deliver, and I'll deliver it faithfully. Got it. Yeah, I trust that you absolutely would. What I see, going back to the first point that you made, that so concerns me, is. Things have gotten so volatile.

Now, with the elections among evangelicals, among believers. And yes, I wrote an article the other day about the danger of endorsing candidates. I've weighed this a lot. I said, I endorse Senator Cruz. I felt right about doing it, but I may never endorse a candidate again.

And one reason is that you now hyper-divide over this because you'll have one evangelical likes Mike Huckabee, and another likes Marco Ruby, and another likes Ted Cruz. And then it almost brings out the worst in us. And you even wonder: is God using these elections to expose a lot of rottenness in the body? But it's vicious, isn't it?

Well, that's the main rottenness we need to deal with. See, we don't need to try to deal with the rottenness in everybody else, but the evil that lurks in our own heart. and the weaknesses that we too often allow to take over. And what I'm doing, Michael, and you know because of my journey with you. You have so much to offer.

And I have watched you. based on our discussions. become so much more obviously redemptive even in your correction. the way you've dealt with Andy Stanley, such a precious man. A son of a great man of God that I love.

And the way you're saying Andy? Would you analyze this? And then for Andy to analyze something, and yet for us to hear what Andy wants us to hear, that's hell. I mean, this is where we come to the table of reason together. We don't wrangle over words that lead to the ruin of the hearers.

We come and sit in the presence of the Lord and let Him hone us. And to me, you're becoming a master now of tremendous correctives, practices, and words. I mean, to me, You're becoming the wiser, more discerning, more truly anointed of God prophet, writer, apologist than you've ever been. I can't tell you how thrilled I am at the Jesus that's being manifest through Dr. Michael Brown.

And you know, we need a miracle. We need to see a total transformation. in many ways of the church family. But of these candidates, I mean, if if whoever gets this thing. The church had better be holding the standard up to them because if we keep murdering the innocent, Innocent blood, God says, I'm not hearing your prayers.

And I mean, you you know, you it's not getting any higher than the ceiling. You need to deal with these issues. And when you teach people to depend upon the federal government as their source, And then you say you're taking care of the poor by handing them money or food stamps and you don't even know how they spend them or use them. You don't know if they use them on food. Are they eating food that causes them to get so obese and so sick?

Now they're on government health care. And are they maybe trading it for cigarettes or for alcohol or beer or drugs? We don't even oversee what we do with the people's money when we say we're helping the poor. I mean, we have become an insane nation. We are worse than submitted to Pharaoh and to Caesar.

I mean, it's like we have sold out to the father of lies. And we got to get it stopped, Doc. And I'm going to do my best to help get it stopped. And I know you are too. Awesome.

Well, thank you again, dear brother, for joining us. Our ears are wide open. Keep speaking the truth. May God use you to. Speak truth to power.

Thanks so much. I love you, sir. Blessings to your audience. It's fire we want for fire we It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-342. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks so much for being part of the line of fire today. 866-348-7884.

I write regularly for the stream, stream.org. This is a website that is published by James Robison. It's got a tremendous group of editors and writers for it. And then it brings in the best redemptive, constructive, insightful reporting from the Internet. It's a great place to go for news.

And for Christian commentary on the news, I'm blessed and privileged to write for it regularly. And in fact, all of my articles will appear there, as well as exclusives that I do for them as well.

So check it out: that's stream.org. And here's an interesting article here. Catholic leader why I serve on the Catholic Advisory Committee on the Trump Pence campaign, the agony of the Republicans, my recent article: Why all the fuss over the Trump sex comments tape?

So check out the website. I think you'll find it very, very helpful. And if I'm edifying, by the way, there's an inspiration section as well. And there's sections on science, technology, God, and arts and entertainment.

So check it out, stream.org. I think I should mention this. Uh James Robinson was kind enough to mention things that I've done interacting with others or constructive criticism. And uh In a fruitful way, in a way where the goal is always to be fruitful. and constructive and life giving and life building.

Uh so James mentioned my interaction with Andy Stanley, pastor of the largest church in America, I believe, and one of the most influential pastors in the world, and a man who's been nothing but gracious to me privately and made himself available to me to direct message on Twitter and to email back and forth. I don't do it much because I know he's super busy. And I know what it's like when people try to bombard me a lot. But Saturday night, I was speaking at a conference in California. And the lead speaker at the conference made the statement: quote.

Andy Stanley's mega church accepts same-sex marriage.

So, as the speaker was speaking, A dear brother, a great scholar and theologian. But had heard certain reports about Andy Stanley's church that gave him that understanding. I sent a direct message to Andy. I said this. I'm speaking at a conference.

And the lead speaker just said. Andy Stanleys Mega Church accepts same-sex marriage. Would you like me to say anything to him and the conference? If so, what? And immediately, Pastor Stanley wrote back to me, We don't.

You can tell him. and ask him to correct it publicly. Thanks. I did immediately that next morning, I told the leader, he said, Well, why don't you immediately correct that publicly? Which I did.

Then shot a note back to Andy and said, Done. And he said, Thank you.

So All that to say, That we've had differences on certain points. I wrote an article recently on questions for Andy Stanley about the Bible and sent it to him, and he appreciated me sending it to him, but we interacted privately first so I could make sure I understood what his points were and then what I agreed with, what I affirmed, talked about on the radio, and where I had some questions and differences still. And my friend Dr. James White has raised some in more acute form. Others, my friend Dr.

Frank Turek, have been more sympathetic to what Andy Stanley said.

So these, Dr. Al Moeller has been very critical. Professor Scott McKnight, sympathetic.

So this is a discussion happening in the body. Uh but my point is this. That again Andy Stanley immediately wanted it to be known no His church does not accept same sex. Marriage. And he wanted me to correct that publicly when it came up.

Now, because he wanted to correct it publicly, I'm correcting it now. on national radio for those who have heard other, you said, but I heard this, I heard that, or he said this, he said that. I'm telling you, I'm looking at his direct message to me and answers the question. Uh It is said that Andy Standers Megachurch accepts same-sex marriage. Would you like me to say anything?

And if so, what? And again, he wrote back immediately: We don't. You can tell him, the speaker at the conference. and ask him to correct it publicly. Thanks.

Now, what's my point in all this? My point is We can have differences, we can raise questions, and we can do it in a way that's destructive or constructive.

Now, look, there's some people completely outside the faith. and we need to call them out for blatant heresy. There's some people who are on a dangerous slide. And we need to do our best to call them up. But in every case, we call out redemptively.

And it doesn't mean we can't be strong. It doesn't mean we can't be clear. It doesn't mean we can't be direct. It doesn't mean we can't sound the alarm. That doesn't mean that we don't say this is dangerous.

All right, I'm saying whatever the case is, I'm just talking generically here. But let us do whatever we do redemptively. And I'm listening, I've done plenty of things wrong. And I've tried to reach out to people and maybe been too aggressive and pushed them away. Or maybe they think all I want to do is debate, and they don't want to debate me.

So I'm far from perfect in this, but to whatever extent, I can build bridges rather than burn bridges. I want to do that. And that's what James Robinson was saying at this time of extreme volatility within the body today. an extreme division within the body today. That boy, let's talk to each other, not past each other, and not through each other.

That means When you want to talk to me about what you think I did wrong or said wrong. That before getting all of my case in order to demolish your position. Before again, we're not talking about debating a radical Muslim.

Okay, and where my goal in debating a radical Muslim is to demolish their false arguments and present the truth. We're talking about a brother or a sister. who who differs with us on something. that it's very easy. For us, as we're listening to them, to just put our refutation together to show how wrong they are without ever saying, is there any truth to what they're saying?

Someone asked me the other day with book reviews that are posted, meaning non-professional, just on Amazon and other places, how do I deal with the critical ones? Do I ever look to see if there's truth in them? I said, well, sometimes I read all of them if it's just, if they're not a lot, post it. Or if there's not a lot of other stuff going on, but many times I don't even get to see a lot of the reviews and things posted. because of the flood of stuff that comes out.

And some of them are just trash. They're meant to be trash. They're from hostile people that didn't read the book. I said, but if it's from an actual reader and they have an issue, of course I look at it. If I have the time, it's from an actual reader and they raise issues.

Yeah, is there truth to their criticism? Of course, I think that way, because none of us are perfect. Of course, I stand behind when I write and preach and teach and what we say, but. We come with a position of humility. And then if we're right, we're right.

Good, fine, no problem. But we don't come with the position of I've never done anything wrong, I've never said anything wrong, I've never thought anything wrong, therefore you can never say anything to me about me doing anything wrong because it doesn't apply. That's not the human race. Hey. Spouses, family members, remember that too, and seek to be peacemakers.

Rather than troublemakers. All right, let's really be in prayer. Prayer for the candidates, prayer for Christian leaders who are close to these candidates, and prayer for the church and the nation. What? A time for us to be before the Lord and get on our faces and seek Him.

Check out a very special resource offer, Jerusalem, City of the Great King, brand new DVD. Check out the resource offer, it's a great three-part package at thelineoffire.org, and as always, at a great price. My bottom line today: remember what Paul said. If we bite and devour each other, we can utterly destroy one another. Change the world.