Focus on Israel and the United States

I'll tell you, the more I look at President Obama and Israel, the more shocked I am. Yeah. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thank you for joining us on thoroughly Jewish Thursday.

Let me say the Hebrew words: Am Yes Reel Chai, the people of Israel live. It is a proclamation of God's faithfulness to keep his covenant promised. Promises.

So glad you could join us on the air today in a few minutes. I've got a special guest who's going to take us behind the scenes a bit in DC in the political realm and talk about the Obama administration and Israel. But I want to say this plainly as a Jewish follower of Jesus. My standing with Israel. is not primarily because I'm Jewish.

And it is not blind, nor is it sentimental. nor is it superficial. In other words, I do not sit back and think that Israel is sinless and flawless. I do not sit back and think that Israel is always guiltless and the Palestinians are always guilty. I do not sentimentalize the depth of opposition to the gospel of Jesus in the religious Jewish world in Israel.

I do not minimize the depth of Israel's sinfulness when it comes to Jewish people being like everybody else. When you read about Israel's rebellion in the wilderness and our historic sin against God, you think, yeah, that's the story of the human race. What sets Israel apart is divine calling and divine purposes.

So I stand with Israel, also recognizing the many good things Israel does and the many wonderful qualities of Israel. That's also undeniable, especially when you're there and see things firsthand. But having said all that, I recognize That it is God alone who has preserved the Jewish people through the ages, not because of our faithfulness, but because of His faithfulness. And I recognize that it is God himself who has regathered the Jewish people back to the land, even using atheists and communists and other non-believers to make it happen. I recognize the hand of God on all this, and I recognize it is Satan who wants to destroy.

It is Satan who wants to wipe out the lost sheep of the house of Israel. It is Satan who wants to nullify God's everlasting covenant with Israel. It is Satan who wants to keep Jerusalem out of Jewish hands. It is Satan who wants to keep Jewish people away from Jesus.

So all the more reason do I stand with Israel recognizing what God is doing, yes, for justice purposes as well, but recognizing God's hand. And then recognizing that if Israel is wrong, we speak plainly to Israel, still recognizing what God has done. And as we look at what's happened with our administration in Israel, it's really eye-opening. I just moments ago finished an article that will post in some places today, other places tomorrow. Obama in Israel, two thousand eight, twenty sixteen.

A study in Stark contrast I think you'll find it to be a real eye-opener. We'll get into some of that on the air today. Take any Jewish-related question that you have relevant to modern Israel or not. And in a moment, we'll speak with my guest, William Koenig. He's the author of a new book, Revealed: Obama's Legacy.

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Okay, click on the order. or Barnes ⁇ Noble, wherever you order there. And then when you click to pre-order and it's at a greatly reduced price, you'll also be getting a free e-book when it comes out January 3rd. And immediately you'll be sent the first three chapters in PDF to start reading out.

So this is through the publisher. I'm thrilled they're doing it. It expires January 7th.

So take advantage. Strongholdoffood.com. Order your copy today. We'll be right back with William Koenig. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Regrettably, some seem to believe that The U.S.

friendship means the U.S. must accept any policy, regardless of our own interests. our own positions, our own words, our own principles. even after urging again and again that the policy must change. Friends need to tell each other the hard truths.

Ah, I am all for friends telling each other the hard truth. I am not for friends wrongly obsessing on the wrong issues and putting their friends in a dangerous position before the UN Security Council and the world. This is Michael Brown. Welcome to Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. My guest today, William Koenig, his newest book, Revealed Obama's Legacy.

Bill has been a White House correspondent for 15 years. He is the president of Koenig Worldwatch Daily, and he publishes weekly Koenig's Eye View from the White House. Perhaps he's best known to some of you listeners as the author of Eye to Eye, Facing the Consequences of Dividing Israel. And Bill, couldn't think of a better day to have you on the air than this Thoroughly Jewish Thursday on our broadcast today. Thanks so much for joining us.

Thank you, Michael. Great to be with you. There's a lot that we know that is open and revealed. I mean, anyone can watch the news. Anyone can hear what Secretary of State Kerry has said.

Anyone can read what Prime Minister Netanyahu has said in response. But there are certain things happening behind the scenes and that you would have more access to this being a Washington insider.

So, first, on the broad spectrum of things, is it any surprise to you that the events of the last week have taken place with the UN Security Council resolution and with John Kerry's speech? Is any of this a surprise to you? No, it isn't, Michael. And I went into great detail in my book that you just mentioned, Revealed Obama's legacy. One of my chapters was on Israel and the Middle East and the condition that the Middle East has been left in with this eight-year president, two-term president.

And, you know, they do positive things. But then again, they do things such as the Iran deal. such as doing nothing in Syria And such as saying ISIS is a JV team, that creates a lot more problems.

So you have the good along with the money that they gave to Israel, which is really an extension of what previous Presidents have given in this new thirty nine billion dollar tenure program. But then again, they do other things that make the area, the neighborhood extremely complicated and even more dangerous. All right, so President Obama 2008, speaking at AIPAC as a candidate in June, did make clear that he advocated a two-state solution, just as President Bush did before him and President Clinton before him. He did pledge certain aid, and he's given that aid. There's been military benefit to Israel.

There's been intelligence benefit. Certainly, America has been a friend to Israel when compared to other nations on the planet. That's clear. And yet, there's been a very icy relationship with Prime Minister Netanyahu. And the average perception in Israel is that Obama has been hostile to Israel.

Is that, in your view, because of his sympathies to Islam, being raised part of his life in Indonesia, registered as a Muslim when he was growing up? Is he more sympathetic to Islam than other presidents have been? Hence, even as a friend of Israel, less sympathetic to Israel? Without a doubt. I also, one of my chapters in my book, a Muslim apologist, I have reviewed every speech he's made, every major speech he's made in Turkey, in Cairo in 2009, his speech to a mosque here in Baltimore in 2016.

I call him a Muslim apologist. He is much more favorable to Islam. to Islam in his speeches. And the the addresses that he've given are incredibly Detailed in terms of I should say incredibly revealing because. Uh he is much more comfortable speaking about Islam.

And the other thing that burdens me as a believer and many other Christians is the fact that we have Christians being persecuted and slaughtered for their faith throughout the Middle East, and he shows hardly any emotion and realistically, no emotion or no concern or doesn't make that a main issue. but he has a great concern about bringing more refugees from the Middle East and Northern Africa into the United States. Right, so along with the UN doing so little and saying so little about the slaughter of Christians and the atrocities in Syria, it is interesting that President Obama seems much more interested in not offending Muslims, whom he would see as primarily moderate, much more interested in not offending them than in dealing aggressively with radical Islam and Islamic terror. What happened with some of his gutting of law books or FBI manuals, things like that? We've read reports that words having to do with Islam were systematically removed, which would then really handcuff these law enforcement agencies from doing things.

Is that an accurate report? Absolutely. Absolutely. I have a friend that used to be involved with Homeland Security, and he revealed some things that were along that line that were very specific. that came from the White House and work its way to Janet Lapolitano, when she was head of Homeland Security, people excuse me, people of the Pentagon, that this is the way they were supposed to talk about Islam, don't emphasize radical Islam.

And yes, it's a total watered down version of the serious threat that we have here in the United States With radical Islam.

So that's absolutely true. Plus, there are seven or eight members of the Muslim Brotherhood that have worked their way into positions of influence within the Obama administration. in other cabinet positions. which also is not favorable to those of us that want to see the true a message of radical Islam exposed and called it for what it is. Right, so again, even if in many ways he would say, yes, we remain friendly to Israel and we stand with Israel, and he's.

Taken actions that would show that because of his other sympathies, because of other friends in the Middle East. People raised questions about George W. Bush and his friendship with Saudi Arabia and how did that affect his judgment. These are all fair questions to ask. But in this case, it goes deeper.

I've never believed that President Obama was a Muslim, but a Muslim apologist. Yes, even his 2009 speech talking about things like the Quran being revealed, I mean, that's Islamic talk, is it not? Absolutely. You know, the mention that Thomas Jefferson had a copy of the Quran to that Egyptian and actually the world Muslim audience, that June 4, 2009 address was carried throughout the Muslim world. It was a speech from one of the oldest Islamic centers, universities.

I think it was about a thousand year old center there. And he had members of the Muslim Brotherhood in the front row there, even to the anger of President Mubarak of Egypt at that time. But that was a message to the entire Muslim world that Thomas Jefferson honored the Koran to the extent that he had a copy of the Koran at the White House. And the main reason Thomas Jefferson had a copy of the Koran was he's trying he and John Adams were trying to figure out what makes these Barbary pirates tick. I mean, these are Muslims, so I need to know more about them, so let's study the Koran because this book is obviously influencing them.

Yeah, and s some of the sy sympathies that they expressed uh in terms of what was happening in in Tripoli, uh Libya, with with some of the the pirate issues were anything but sympathetic towards Islam. Exactly, exactly. And I think that's the thing is we need d you know to decipher what he says, how he says it, and the purpose of what he says. To fully understand his thinking. One great point here is he told the Saudis, who are petrified of a nuclear Iran, believing that Israel will be first and they will be the second because of this long time uh hate hatred between the Saudis and the Sunnis, I mean the Shiites of Iran.

So you have the Sunni Saudis and the Shiite Iranians. that do not like each other. And after the Iran nuke deal, he basically told the Saudi leadership that you need to get used to having two significant powers in the Middle East, you all, your Sunnis, your majority of the Middle East, and then also acknowledging the fact that Iran has a right to be in this neighborhood and have an influence as well. Yeah, again, things unfolding in ways that many have predicted, many were concerned would happen. And Bill, I just wrote an article that we'll post a little later today.

And in it, I went back to the 2008 speech in APAC and contrasted some of what he said there with what's happening now and what's happened over the last eight years. But ironically, he said this, as president, I will work to help Israel achieve the goal of two states, the Jewish state of Israel and a Palestinian state, living side by side in peace and security. And I won't wait until the waning days of my presidency. Ironically, in the waning days of his presidency, he's taking very ugly parting shots at Israel. Yeah, there's a big issue there for sure, Michael.

And I think the other part of the fact is that John Kerry has extended so much effort in trying to make a peace deal in Israel. And he has been very mad at Israel. He said, if you don't make peace with the Palestinians, you have the risk of a third intifada. He said if you don't do this, you're going to be delegitimized in the international community. He also mentioned the possibility of having boycotts with behind the scenes.

I understand that he had some influence on the European boycott of products made in Judea and Samaria. And also the fact is you don't want to be considered an apartheid state.

So when John Kerry doesn't get his way, he creates more problems. And when he first got involved in this four years ago, he used old plans that had already been unsuccessful. All right, tell you what, we'll stop right here. My guest, Bill Koenig, his most recent book, Reveal Obama's Legacy. We've got a lot more to talk about on this Thurly Jewish Thursday broadcast.

Ain't tour. Give us strict to always do what's right. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. In fact, this administration has been Israel's greatest friend and supporter with an absolutely unwavering commitment to advancing Israel's security and protecting its legitimacy. On this point, I want to be very clear. No American administration has done more for Israel's security than Barack Obama's. Those are the words of Secretary of State John Kerry in his 72-minute speech on Israel yesterday.

My guest, Bill Koenig, author most recently of Revealed Obama's Legacy. Bill, what's your reaction to those words from our Secretary of State?

Well, Michael, just before the break, John Kerry has been so motivated to be the guy that delivers this peace deal. He had the attitude when he first took the position as Secretary of State that Billy he believed that in his egotism Believe that the only reason there hadn't been a peace deal in the last twenty years because he hadn't been working on it. And seldom do I see the Israeli left and the Israeli right media agree that he has done a lot of things. and made a lot of mistakes that have only made the situation much worse. And I also mentioned those basic threats to Israel.

Uh which Yeah. Created an even more difficult thing for Israel and the international community. It has helped give fuel to the BDS movement, and it has brought Israel into this uncomfortable position here at the UN, the Security Council, of now basically having another UN Security Council call any legitimate settlement community in Israel, when we say legitimate from our perspective, that the settlement community are living on occupied land, illegal land, and this really burdens and makes it much more difficult for Israel going into the new year. Yes, I've been commenting on all those issues, of course, through the week and figure this one out. How is it then?

that East Jerusalem is illegally occupied territory And yet candidate Obama promised APAC in 2008 that Jerusalem will be the undivided capital. Of Israel. And then John Kerry yesterday said that there will be two capitals in Israel for Israel and the Palestinian state, both in Jerusalem. How's that all work?

Well, unfortunately the uh the guy that uh the co-chair of uh Barack Obama's uh Campaign back in 2008 was the president, Rosie. He was a president. of APAC. And this was somewhat of speaking to Rosie as he's President of APAC and also to the J the Jew Jewish money and the Jewish genius that helped get him elected, David Axelrod and a few others.

So yes, and unfortunately, those things change. And a lot of Presidents or a lot of Potential presidents say they're going to move the embassy to Israel or move the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem when they're running for office, and once they get in office, they start backtracking on that and as well as what would you that example you just used in two thousand eight. Yeah, and of course, President Bush backed away from it, just canceling it for security reasons.

However, often it had to be, what was it, every six months or something, and then President Obama continued it. And someone made the comment about Donald Trump. It's like, look, everybody talks about doing it, but nobody's actually going to do it. It'd be crazy to do it.

So why make the promise? Again, many politicians make many statements and then go back on them later on. We're just watching now as it's happening with President Obama and Israel. Let me ask a question in terms of something you focused on for some years. You felt after doing systematic research that there were clear parallels With uh America mistreating Israel in some serious way and something calamitous happening to America.

Now, some have theological questions, and how does that work? And don't innocent people suffer. Those are all fair questions. We just won't get into them right now. In my mind, I would have had to research every calamitous event in America and then see were there power, were there not parallels, how often did this happen?

But it got my attention enough that when Israel under American pressure was forced to evacuate Gaza, literally uproot thousands of Israeli families and put them in literal refugee camps within their own country. I remember thinking, what's going to happen? Are there going to be consequences? And of course, next Katrina hits us, and now tens of thousands of Americans are homeless. And many people wondered about this.

So you've written about it, you've documented it, you follow it. You can defend that thesis much better than I can. But when you see something like this happening, What are you thinking?

Now, we've got an incoming president who says he's going to reverse whatever he can reverse and things will be different. But from your perspective, having observed this for years now, What do you feel when you see our administration do these things?

Well, you know, I look at what happened this year. You know, in my book, originally, eye to eye, facing the consequences of dividing Israel, I had over just under sixty major catastrophic record-setting US events that happened usually the same day or within twenty-four hours, some cases forty-eight hours, of US pressure on Israel to divide their covenant lands, such as Judea, Samaria, and East Jerusalem. And I noticed the greater the pressure on Israel to comply, the greater the corresponding catastrophe. We had the perfect storm that was sending thirty-foot waves into President Bush's home in Maine in 1991. We had seventeen days before nine eleven, President Bush was working with Crown Prince Abdullah on a major address that he was going to give to the UN.

They finished the work in 9.10. He was going to call for a two-state plan.

something his dad or Clinton would have never done. And then Katrina, the mention there, Michael, was within a few hours after President Bush congratulated Ariel Sharon. On this courageous evacuation of 9,500 Jews from twenty-four settlements in Gaza and Samaria. we had this tropical depression formed near the Bahamas kind of out of nowhere, which is very unusual. Usually they're deeper into the Caribbean or off the west coast of Africa.

But this just developed within a few hours of Bush making that statement. and became the biggest disaster in U. S. history as a two hundred billion dollar event. when you look at the parallels of how things were being explained in Israel of the eviction of Jews from their homes, you could look at the same parallels of what happened when we had the Southern Gulf Coast area of ninety thousand square miles impacted by the storm.

So the parallels were very significant. And we have I'm updating the book right now to cover the eight years of Obama's time in office. We've got thirty-five or so events. We had six events this year. We had Winterstorm Jonas, We had when the Golan Heights was at risk, we had massive floods in Texas.

And then we had Hurricane Matthew that happened right at the time of Shimon Perez's death, and the White House. Saying that Israel is not part of Jerusalem and making a public statement on that. And then what has happened interesting since Kerry's speech, well actually since the UN decision, we've had over seven hundred tremors in California, Nevada. And yesterday, just before Kerry's speech, we had three earthquakes on the California, Nevada border in the five point seven, five point six and five point eight area. And then right after he spoke, a four point one quake in San Bernardino County area.

So You know, it it depends on the pressure, Michael, how it works out, but the pattern has repeated itself over uh ever since 91. Yeah, I cannot wait to see the new edition of your book. I'm going to look at that very carefully. Friends, Look at it, examine it, give it thought. is God speaking through all this.

Look at The evidence. Hey, friends, if you appreciate what we're doing, remember, we are listener-sponsored. Your year-end gift would be a tremendous blessing to us. Go to ask Dr. Brown, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org, click donate.

It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Now I must express My deep disappointment. We have the speech today of John Kerry. A speech that was almost as unbalanced as the anti-Israel resolution passed at the UN last week. The words, of course, of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

Regarding Secretary of State John Kerry's speech yesterday, my guest, Washington Insider, journalist. William Koenig, his most recent book revealed Obama's legacy. Bill, Prime Minister Ni Chen Yao who immediately After the UN Security Council vote, said that America was behind the resolution itself, helped craft the resolution. When there were challenges to this, Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer said, we have rather ironclad evidence. And since then, An Egyptian paper has released purported transcripts of a meeting with John Kerry and Palestinian leader Sayyib Erikot discussing the very resolution.

I have a clip from several months ago with a political pundit talking about this specific resolution being one of the options that the Obama administration is discussing. Yet the President's people are denying any complicity in this. From your vantage point, what's your information tell you? I I totally agree that they uh were behind working behind the scenes. And I, you know, Netanyahu and as Ron Dermer said last night on T V on Fox, He said, you know, he's not going to say this.

Prime Minister Netanyahu is not going to say this unless we have the facts. And he even called Ben Rhodes Master of Fiction, to paraphrase what he said.

So they it's ironclad. I don't think there's any doubt about it, Michael. They have the information. I do know for a fact, I have a friend from Austral New Zealand who also covers Australia, and he said that Kerry was in Auckland, New Zealand, We're actually welling to New Zealand on November 13th, meeting with the leaders. of New Zealand.

And we know for a fact that some of the conversation was about New Zealand's role in this, if they needed a point man or a front man in this process.

So I don't think there's any doubt at all. I think they're wise to pass it on to the next administration, Trump administration, who seems extremely favorable to Israel and are committed one hundred percent to moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. And I think it's a wise move. And I definitely think they have the information they need. Yeah, if you can tell us this in less than two minutes, great.

Otherwise, we'll pick it up on the other side of the break. But when you look at the nations that ended up sponsoring the resolution, New Zealand, Senegal, Uh Venezuela. Uh, you know, you look at yeah, yeah, uh, yeah, why what incentive did New Zealand or say Senegal have to do in this? Why would they care? You know, I don't know that because I I know John Keyes, who just stepped down as Prime Minister of New Zealand, uh is even Jewish.

And um I don't know. I you know, when you look into these things you'll find out for one reason or another why they're so committed to it. But I've been very surprised that New Zealand has been so committed to this for so long. I don't know whether they've been put up to it. uh whether some favor was offered if they were going to do something in this in this line?

I just don't know. If it's a Middle Eastern country, yes, you could see that. The other thing is the French have been really pushing a UN Security Council resolution on Israel and the settlements and on peace conference for the last couple of years. And part of that problem is they have six million Muslims in their country and have a big problem with Islam. In their country.

So I think that's one of the motivating factors. But in New Zealand's case, I just don't know why Senegal would do something like that. Yeah, very, very, very puzzling. And of course, the Nets and Yahoo administration has made it very clear that there will be consequences for this. All right.

We'll be back with my guest, William Koenig, his most recent book, Revealed Obama's Legacy. We want to get in depth a little bit more about what's happening with America and Israel. And we'll take some of your calls on this too. 866-348-7884. Change the world.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. This resolution itself is a resolution that effectively will call for boycotts and sanctions against Israel.

That's the language of the resolution to ask states in their relevant dealings with Israel to make the distinction between pre-67 Israel and Israel beyond the 1967 lines. What does that mean? People will use this resolution to stir the pot for boycotts, divestment and sanctions against Israel, and to bring Israeli soldiers and maybe even Israeli citizens to the International Criminal Court. That is Israeli Ambassador to the United States Ron Dermer talking about the implications of the Security Council resolution that America apparently helped craft and put forward, and then stood out of the way to make sure that it went. uh forward without a hitch.

And again, it not just says building the settlements is wrong, but the Palestinians shouldn't use violence either.

So, you know, statement to both. Not only says that, but it effectively says that the Jewish court of Jerusalem is illegally occupied territory. That when President Obama prayed at the Western Wall, he was praying at illegally occupied territory. And Ambassador Dermer lists other consequences that could come out of this. My guest, Washington Insider journalist and author William Koenig, his newest book revealed Obama's legacy, has been joining us the last 30 minutes.

Bill, is Ambassador Dermer overstating his concerns? Is there a reason that so many in Israel are saying this is terrible? Or is it... over the sky's falling chicken little and it's really not that bad. No, no, he's he's absolutely correct.

It has gotten much worse in the last four years. You know it was interesting, Michael, when Hillary Clinton was the Secretary of State. She brought in George Mitchell to do the piecework. She knew how difficult it was because eight years, Bill Clinton had been involved with the process.

So I I think she only went to Israel one time in that four year period. Cary has been absolutely obsessed With delivering this deal. You know, he's used old failed plans. In some ways, it's like he was on another planet for seven years and came back in with all these great ideas that had already failed. You know, and it's also rare when you have former Ambassador U.

S. Michael Oren. stating publicly that please, John Kerry, stay home. We don't need help in you negotiating between Israel and Hamas during that war two summers ago. I mean, it unfortunately, when John Kerry goes to the Middle East, whether it's being ineffective in the Syria ceasefire talks or whether it's his involvement with the Iran nuke deal or with his his involve his excessive involvement with the Land for Peace process in Israel for the last four years, it's leftist at this point right now where BDS, the divestment, the delegitimization movement, what's happening in college campuses around America are much worse because of what has happened over the last four years.

by Kerry and Obama, but specifically Kerry's efforts.

So, in other words, Israel can say we defy this resolution and we're going to keep building settlements. Friends of Israel in America. And then incoming President Trump could say this is a resolution that we reject. But the rest of the world and then much of public opinion throughout America is heavily influenced by this. And now it just adds to this picture of evil Israel going on with their aggressive policies.

What about the argument, though, that Prime Minister Netanyahu's current administration is farther to the right of any previous administration, and that while the settlements are not the primary obstacle to peace, they're an ongoing provocation against peace? What about that argument?

Well, the settlements, you know, it's however it spun. And unfortunately, a majority of the media in Israel's to the left. And they believe that any bit of settlement construction is a threat to future peace with the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority. I've even told a couple of those guys that work for Haaretz, I said when they were blasting Netanyahu four years ago for not making peace with Assad and giving up the Golan Heights to To Syria, I said, Are you guys crazy? You got to be kidding.

The most important defensive area of Israel, and you want to give it to a side?

Well, look what's happened in Syria the last four or five years, four plus years, almost five years. And you know, same thing with Judea and Samaria. You know how important those mountains are. are to Israel's security in Samaria and Judea. and to give that up to a Palestinian led government that's led by Hamas, that does not acknowledge Israel's right to exist.

I you know I d I the whole peace process should Terrorism began in Israel, but They've wanted to appease and appeal to the international community that we just want to be a good neighbor here. We just want to be an important part of the international community.

So reluctantly, they've gone along with it, and it's created a situation we have today.

Now, in Carolyn Glick's book on a one-state solution, she begins it as someone who was close to Prime Minister Netanyahu and is a leading journalist in Israel today. Absolutely. But she begins her book by explaining why a two-state solution is completely impossible, cannot happen. Then, of course, since you really have to have Gaza as a nation by itself the way it is now, you're almost talking about a three-state solution. But her argument and increasingly prevalent argument today, okay, let Gaza be its own country, whatever, and we'll have one state with Israelis-Palestinians living side by side as happens now, but except open to all Palestinians in Judea, Samaria, the so-called West Bank.

And she argues that you can maintain Jewishness, you can maintain a Jewish majority, and hence a Jewish state by doing it. Of course, you have endless problems and questions with that. You know, what's the national anthem going to be? Or Palestinians going to sing, Hatikvah, and things like that. But Secretary of State Kerry yesterday said that if you want to have one state, It can't be both Jewish.

And democratic. It's got to be one or the other. Whereas two states, yeah, you by design, this is the Jewish state and it's majority Jewish and Palestinian state, that's Palestinian, they can be whatever they want, Muslim or whatever. They can both be Democratic, but you know the way the vote's gonna go. Is it possible to have a one-state solution that is both Jewish and Democratic?

Well, first of all, the demographic numbers that said that Israel would one day be a minority in their own country are just false. There's been Jorm Ettinger and others who have done demographic studies. with some of the universities there in Israel, and that's just a false narrative. Secondly, there's three areas there in the West Bank. such as Judea and Samaria, that's A, B and C.

A is fully given over to the Palestinians. They have full control over A. Area B, Israel still has a security interest there, but all the property has been given to the Palestinians. Area C is very important, that's sixty one percent of the West Bank. And that's what Naftali Bennett and other Israelis in the Likud have called for that area to be annexed.

for their own security purposes and for the fact that the Israel's had a three thousand plus year relationship with this land. Uh that's kind of That's their plan. Other than that, I just giving up any additional land to the Palestinians at this point and the reality of the fact that the Palestinian Authority, Fatah, does not get along with Hamas, that horrible civil war they had in Gaza, they're just they don't get along. And the only time when they have a unity government, it it never succeeds because it's only for public perception, but it will work.

So realistically, Gaza is Hamas. Fine, keep that. And area B Area A and B would be fine for a Palestinian state. because it's already been given to them. The question, Michael, would come down to see.

The international community wants to see that and even more so in East Jerusalem given to the Palestinians.

So that's That's the risk going forward, and that's why Netanyahu's government is becoming more and more right-wing because they see the risk. of giving up Area C, which is a large portion of Sumeria. And when President Obama was candidate Obama, again, in his APAC speech, he talked about flying by helicopter, looking at Israel's borders, seeing how thin and slender the country was, and yet back in 2011, and then it's resurfaced since then, talk about going back to pre-1967 borders, which would make Israel at its narrowest, nine miles wide, and completely indefensible against hostile neighbors. Do you think that there'll be one more push for that by this administration? No, I think they've said that they're not going to do anything now.

They are, and this is Ben Rhodes, they've got so much blowback from the Democrats and the Republicans on Capitol Hill that they have. stated in the last twenty four hours that they will veto any additional UN resolution that happens between now and january twentieth. And I think another interesting irony is Russia said yesterday. that they favor Israel and the Palestinians negotiating directly and not favoring additional resolutions. And I think the irony to that is the fact that the United States Is going to slap on sanctions on Russia.

Matter of fact, the news is out right now, they're forcing 35 Russian diplomats to leave within 72 hours.

So the timing of that, Michael, is pretty significant that they have to 32 plus have to get out of the United States in 72 hours over the hacking thing. But I love the timing because Russia is not willing to cooperate with Kerry at the UN regarding Israel. Especially when they were getting ready to have their diplomats forced out of the United States.

So that was a Genesis 12-3 timing, I think, for that perspective. Yeah, and then, you know, you go back to the founding of Israel, and Russia casts a vote for it.

So amazing to watch history unfold in front of us. Hey, Bill, thanks for all your great work. What's the website where people can follow you? Website is watch.org. It's w-at-t-ch-h.org.

Awesome. Keep up the great work. Look forward to talking with you again. Look forward to it. Thank you, Michael.

Oh God of burning, cleanse. Single flame. Say And the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on this Thurly Jewish Thursday. What a great interview with Bill Coney.

Again, his website, watch.com. If you've got a Jewish-related question, love to take your calls. 866-348-7884. We go to Boston. Gail, welcome to the line of fire.

Thank you for taking my call, doctor Brown. I'm very glad that you took it. I'm going to be brief and as brief as possible, but I was listening to what your previous guest had to say. And forced China forced Israel to give up its land that they won in the nineteen sixty seven war. If that's the case, then what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

meaning the United States should give back all the land that they took from the Native Americans in the wars that they had back when. Yeah, I mean how about Gail not not just there and you could even say that our conflicts with Native Americans were often unjust whereas Israel's conflict with the Palestinians they were just or with the surrounding Arab nations they were just defending themselves but yeah how about didn't we have conflict with Mexico? And get some land that used to be Mexican, right?

So exactly. Absolutely. Right, so I guess time to start giving back the land. In fact, all around the world. Where there have been wars and conflicts, and borders have changed, where an enemy attacks you, and for your own security purposes, you now fight back and take a certain part of the land.

Yeah. Start giving back all around the world. Let it be a love fest that changes borders and nationalities and ethnicities around the world. Yeah, Gail, point well taken. You know, it reminds me of a little cartoon I once saw.

in a Israeli paper. And there there was an Israeli talking with a Native American, American Indian. And You know, the whole land for peace thing, right? Just give us the land, we'll have peace. And Native Americans said to the Israeli, Yeah, that land for peace thing didn't work too well for us.

And again, when you're talking about Native Americans versus Palestinians, the Israelis would be the ones like the Native Americans in that they've had the historic presence in the land, and Jerusalem has been the eternal capital of the Jewish people for 3,000 years. And on and on it goes. Thanks for the call. 866-348-7884. Let me play one more clip.

This is Jake Tapper, clip number six. CNN yesterday, he's speaking with Deputy National Security Advisor Ben Rhodes about these very issues. Voters out there, American citizens out there might think, On the one hand, you have people building homes. And okay, you're calling them illegal and they're detrimental to the peace process, but it's construction. and ultimately people can leave houses.

And on the other hand, you have people killing people, and that's just final. And that there seems to be a moral equivalence argument being made that might rub a lot of people the wrong way and confuse them. There is no moral equivalence. There is no justification for terrorism. No settlement construction should ever, ever justify either terrorism or incitement to terrorism.

On that, there's just no question. And Secretary Kerry made that clear again today. We're drawing no equivalence. The fact of the matter is, though, Jake, just describing them as people building houses, they are displacing Palestinians from their homes. They're taking land that everybody who's looked at this issue thinks would be a part of a future Palestinian state.

They're making the possibility of a contiguous Palestinian state with the territory that connects to itself impossible.

So, again, the question is: if it is U.S. policy, which has been under multiple administrations of both parties, to support a two-state solution, why should we be silent in the face of policies that clearly are going to make that impossible? Right. I appreciate the point Jake Tapper was making. An excellent point.

I appreciate the response of Ben Rhodes saying no, there is no moral equivalence between terrorism and building settlements. Again, the question is, why bring them? In the same resolution to the UN Security Council. In other words, Israel has to stop building settlements and the Palestinians have to stop with their acts of terror. You then make it.

A morally equivalent comparison. And then, when you look at the UN's gross inaction and ineptitude when it comes to Syria and the atrocities there, comparison with the outrage over Israel building settlements, again, you say, okay, something is not adding up correctly in this equation. Let's take it one step further. The whole idea that you could not have a contiguous Palestinian state because of Jewish settlements. I have I have a question.

Why can't Jews live in a Palestinian state? If raised this over and over, Why must it be in that German words Judenrein, free of Jews? Uh could someone explain that to me? Why is it that if you have two-state solution, no one is saying that all the Arabs living in Israel now, who make up about 1.5 million of the people, so if Israeli Jews are about six million, Israeli Arabs, Palestinians living there, mainly Muslims and some Druze. There are 1.5 million.

A substantial part of the population, about 20% of the population.

So the question then is this: why can you have Arabs? living in A Jewish homeland, but you can't have Jews living in a Palestinian. Homeland. Why is that? based based on what logic?

Why must a Palestinian state have no Jews living in it? You say, well, they wouldn't want to live under Palestinian government and so well, that's a fair question to ask is how they would relate and would they want to be there. But the question is, why is it presupposed that they can't be there? I think that is a fair question. Question two.

Ask all right, listen, friends. There is more to talk about. We've got another hour of broadcasting coming your way. I know that not all of you can listen on radio, but you can all listen online. Just go to thelineoffire.org and click listen, and you can keep listening on your computer, your tablet, right on your cell phone, driving in your car.

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Screen will come up. You follow through with that and boom, it is on its way. Thank you for standing together with us. Together, we are making a difference. My bottom line today, yes, yes, the nations will be affected based on how they deal with Israel.

I'll tell you, the more I look at President Obama and Israel, the more shocked I am. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. It is a great joy to be with you in the midst of Hanukkah, day six of Hanukkah. This is Michael Brown.

Delighted to be with you.

Well, tonight we'll be lighting the candles for day six. Those who do that, it's interesting. We have some family staying with us.

So it was the first time that as family with kids and grandkids, we lit the Hanukkah candles together. And it's, to be honest with you, not been an ongoing practice in my life as a follower of Jesus. For the most part, these things have had spiritual meaning to me, but growing up in a Jewish home and in a fairly nominal setting, lighting the candles was just a tradition and had very little meaning. But we felt this year: hey, we've got family with us, let's all do it together. But can I be totally honest with you?

Some nights I've been home by myself with family out or kids sleeping over in another home, or grandkids sleeping over, and I've just lit the candles by myself, and I've actually found. More meaning when I can pray and meditate. I know it's a family event and something that's done together, but when I can pray and I can meditate over this and pray for my people Israel. And then And then think about God's calling on us as followers of Yeshua. To be a light to the world.

A traditional Jew will pray a prayer, blessing God, praising God. The king of the universe. Who has sanctified us, namely the people of Israel, by his commandments, and commanded us to light the Hanukkah candles. But in point of fact, there is no divine command because the written Torah is already given. This is something that became a custom of the people.

And you could say the law of the land that people would do it. But it was not Torah law. It was not a divine command to light the candles.

So many Messianic Jews who light the Hanukkah candles don't pray that same prayer. They modify the prayer. And rather than say who commanded us to light the Hanukkah candles, we'll say Vitzivanu, Le Hiyot, or Le Goyim, or Or Le Olam, and commanded us to be a light to the nations, or a light to the world. And that's what's had great meaning for me as I've stood and prayed before the candles. God's preservation of the people of Israel supernaturally.

And often Despite our faithlessness. And by the way, if you're a Christian and say, well, that's not right.

Well, has God preserved the church because of his faithfulness or the church's faithfulness? Has God preserved you? Because of your faithfulness or his faithfulness.

So let God be faithful and let God be gracious But as I prayed and meditated, I thought, yeah, God has preserved us as a people. And in certain ways, we've been a light to the world. In other ways, because of us, God's name is blasphemed, just as it was in the past, in biblical days. It's been both. But through the Messiah, through Jesus coming into the world, we can now be a light to the world.

And boy, is it amazing to see places where the light has never shown before. places where You know, there's been complete darkness, atomism, and idolatry, and the most crass practices. And here the light of the gospel has come. People have heard about the Savior of the world, the Messiah of Israel. And now in the most obscure, distant parts of the world, the most primitive, exotic parts of the world, people are worshiping the God of Israel.

Through Jesus, Yeshua, the Messiah. And for some Messianic Jews, when they take the candle, the shamash, as it's called, the helper candle, you light that, and then you use that candle to light all the other candles. We often think of that candle as spiritually representing the Messiah, the light of the world, who lights us up. That we might shine. We come back.

I want to get to your Jewish-related questions. I'm going straight to the phones: Jewish, Hebrew-related, 866-3666. 348-7884. We'll be right back. Shake!

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

My new article, brand new, is up on the stream, Obama in Israel from 2008 to 2016, a story of betrayal and reversal. You don't want to miss that. It's at stream.org. 866-348-7884. You've got Jewish-related questions.

We've got Jewish answers. Let's go to David in London, England. Welcome to the line of fire. Hi. Hello, Bill.

Hi. Yeah. Um, so I wanted to ask you about Isaiah fifty three. Yes, sir. Um Is it I cut?

I mean, is um if I if I want to re-listen, because you might have some good answers and stuff, is it possible is there a uh recording at all that would be available? Oh yes, sir. Uh on our website, thelineoffire.org.

Okay, that's fine. I can check after.

So okay, well, if you just click on listen a couple of hours after the show's over, that'll take you right to today's archives. Ah fantastic.

Okay. I wanted to ask you the few verses which sort of caught my eye, I guess. Um I did hear one of your talks, and I think you said that the there are some points where it's talking about Israel and there are some points where it's talking about an individual like a like just like how you can have like a team leader or something and then like with the sports team, there might be the the main team and then you've got the wrong person who carries it for the team. Yeah, just to clarify that, that is talking about how the word Eved, servant, is used beginning in Isaiah 41 up through Isaiah 54, 17, where there are references to the servant or servants of the Lord. And sometimes in that context, it's explicit.

Israel is the servant. Jacob, Israel is the servant, and often a blind and deaf and non-responsive servant. And then there is an individual within Israel who is one called to regather the people of Israel and one called to be a light to the nations. And by the time we get to Isaiah 52, 13 to 53, 12, that is the focus. One individual, a righteous servant who dies for the sins of the nation, and yet his own people misunderstand him.

So I don't see Isaiah 52.13 to 53.12 speaking about Israel. and the Messiah. I see it just speaking about the Messiah.

Okay, so is it the case like so Um Is is it everything before Isaiah fifty two twelve is if I might get the first one. Is there everything from After that bit, it uh it so you're saying it was I just jumped out on the verses you mentioned, so Isaiah fifty two thirteen, yeah. To 5312, right? Yes, all Israel. And before that, for example, in chapter 41, Israel is expressly referred to as God's servant.

In Isaiah 42, the servant is called to be a light to the nations, and there's some ancient rabbinic commentators who recognize that servant as being the Messiah. In Isaiah 49. If that's the case, then I guess it sounds like most of the time it's talking about the nation of Israel. And then there's this. one little portion But you're saying it's talking about an individual?

Oh, no, no, no, quite the contrary, sir. You have quite a few passages speaking about the individual. In fact, they're some of the lengthiest ones. Isaiah 42, which, as I said, if you look, for example, at the Targum or Radak, Rabbi David Kimpe, they understand that to be referring to King Messiah. If you look in chapter 49, beginning in verse 1, there's an extended passage where Rashi and others believe it's talking about the prophet and others interpreted as the Messiah.

And his mission, even though he's called Israel, his mission is to regather Israel. In the 50th chapter, and again, look at the rabbinic commentaries, they explicitly say it's speaking about an individual.

So over and over and over, we have extended passages speaking about the servant of the Lord as an individual and specifically as the Messiah. The thing is, the rabbinic commentaries have all sorts of things. Is it possible to look at it without the rabbinic commentaries and still come to that conclusion? Yes, sir. In fact, it's the logical conclusion.

I only cite the rabbinic commentaries for the sake of religious Jews who say, well, you're just reading that into the text. And I say, no, rabbinic Jews who differ with my interpretation of the text and who don't believe this applies to Jesus also recognize this regarding an individual.

So, for example. I think that, I mean, I think that's actually, generally when you've debated religious Jews and stuff, to bring that argument about what the rabbinic text and stuff is, I think it actually. weakens your argument. because um you know if one either sort of accepts the rabbinic text or one doesn't. And if one does, then one would have to accept that they don't the rabbis don't believe that it's Jesus.

And the rabbis the rabbinic text will believe all sorts of things. Oh, no, no, no, no, not at all, sir. I appreciate the point, but it's quite illogical. Let's say, for example, that the Palestinian Authority says we recognize ISIS as terrorists, okay? And if I say, hey, look, I'm not the only one who thinks ISIS is terrorist.

The Palestinian Authority recognizes them as terrorists, and they firmly stand against many things in Israel. We do that all the time. We always quote people who differ with us when they have a similar view on something to say, hey, look, I'm not the only one saying this. For example, in Israel today. It's still a terrible.

I mean, some people might make that argument. It's a terrible argument. I would even say the Palestinian Authority have no moral backbone. And if they say some of these are terrorists, it's completely irrelevant. All right.

But, sir. A rabbinic Jew respects the Jewish commentaries. I respect their scholarship. I respect their scholarship. David, David, hang on.

David, hang on. I respect their scholarship, even though I differ with them. But here's the point. If someone says to me, David, if someone says to me, All Jews know the servant of the Lord. Is Israel in these passages?

It's universally interpreted. I said that's totally false. Here is evidence from within Jewish commentaries that say that that's false. That's perfectly legitimate, sir. Yeah, yeah, that's Yeah, I guess that but yeah, yeah, that that would be correct in that in that context.

Yeah. Right, so let's look, for example, in Isaiah 49, where it says this, the servant of the Lord speaking. All right. I have labored in vain. I have spent my strength for nothing in futility, yet my vindication is with the Lord, and my reward is with my God.

And now says the Lord, who formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob back to him, so that Israel might be gathered to him, for I am honored in the sight of the Lord, my God is my strength. He says, It is not enough for you to be my servant, raising up the tribes of Jacob and restoring the protected ones of Israel. I will also make you a light for the nations to be my salvation to the ends of the earth. That is obviously not Israel. That is an individual within Israel.

Okay. I mean that there's probably like a lot of passages, I guess, in Isaiah, which is there any is there anywhere I can see a list of all the passages in question? Um besides just Isaiah 53. Surely in volume 3 of my series, Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, I treat all of them exhaustively. I go through every reference to the servant there.

And if you're unable to get that volume, you can just email our website for the specifics and we'll gladly send them to you.

Okay, thanks. There were, I did look at three different verses, and they were kind of that's puzzled me a little bit, but let's see. One of them is Isaiah fifty three verse eight. Yeah. Now this is a funny one because I was looking to one of Tovia Singer's articles on it.

And the verse says by restraint and by judgment he has been taken. And of his generation who doth meditate. Oh, maybe I'm looking at funding translations. I mean, this is the Ryl T, the Young's literal translation or whatever, but he has been cut off from the land of the living. by the transgression of my people, he is plagued.

Now the interesting thing. was on Tovia's article It said the at the end of that verse, it says they is pl they are plagued. Um and now the word, the Hebrew word here is uh lamo. Mm-hmm. Or or he was Nagar Lamore.

So they were big to him, right? And that's what most of the translations say, which would disagree with what Tovja Singer had written. But it's a funny thing. I checked in um in Bible works which has like uh so it's got all the morphological codes for it. I've got it right on my screen right here.

Mm-hmm. Okay, so I guess it's the Globe Swila or codes or whatever, but it it says I'm looking at this, it says for Lamot, it says P P's are but First one's a capital P, so it's a a particle. Names of the little P is a prepositions, doesn't really matter. Then it's got the suffix, it says three MP. It says third person masculine plural.

which would actually agree with what Tovia Singer had said to them.

So that's Yeah, so that's really, really easy. I mean, these have been answered decades ago. It's actually a shame that Tovia still raises them. Number one, the passage is saying that the servants of the Lord. Was smitten for them, me pesha ami for the transgression of my people, Negah.

Smitten. or stroke la mot for them.

Okay, so that's what it's saying, that the servant of the Lord suffered for them. That's exactly what it says.

So it's a gross misinterpretation of the text. Otherwise, not only that, though, but Isaiah actually uses Lamo to mean for him or to it. Isaiah 44, 15, and it says this explicitly, that a man makes an idol, he makes a pesel, and the yis god la mo, and he bows down to it.

So even on the other interpretation, David, la mo can mean to it, for it. That's again no argument in terms of the usage in Isaiah 44:15. And the New Jewish translation, New Jewish Publication Translation says, fashions an idol and bows down to it. Singular.

So Lamot can mean to it. For it, for him, to him, but Isaiah 53:8, I don't believe that's what it's saying: that the Messiah is suffering Lamo for them, for the people. Stay right there. Oh, God of burning, cleansing. Yeah.

Send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks for joining us on this Thurly Jewish Thursday. This is Michael Brown having an extended conversation with David from London, asking questions about the Hebrew text of Isaiah 52:13 to 53:12. I've got an entire talk on our YouTube channel about this. In fact, if you just go to our digital library, go to thelineoffire.org. Click on digital library and click on Isaiah 53.

I have a whole lecture just on the subject that you can find really eye-opening. Also, for those who understand Hebrew and for David, where it says at the end of Isaiah 53, 8, so the way I would understand it, for the stroke of my people, for the transgression of my people, a stroke. In other words, he's smitten, Lamo, for them. I don't read it like that. It's also possible to read it, Lamo, meaning for him, as in Isaiah 44, 15.

But it's interesting that Dead Sea Scrolls there seem to read Nugah. which would suggest a passive form, hence Mipesha Ami for the transgression of my people, Nugah. smitten Lamo for them, but there's some Debate and dispute about that. All right. David, we've got limited time, but let's try to get to any other verses that have troubled you.

Okay, thanks. Yeah, so another one is verse 10 Isaiah 53 verse 10. Yep. It says he shall see his offspring.

Now Jesus didn't see his offspring, so I'm just wondering how you interpret that one. Yeah, again, these are standard questions that have been raised for many years. There are a couple of answers. On rare occasions, Zerah seed is used in a spiritual sense in Scripture, and it could be speaking of a spiritual offspring. But elsewhere, if you look, for example, at the end of Psalm 22, Zerah seed just speaks of a future generation.

So in that sense, the Jesus movement, the movement that he birthed through his death and resurrection, has gone on now for two millennia. And there have been multiple generations of disciples. Isn't it more like his father sees it rather than him? No, no. He he by being raised from the dead, he c he continues on.

By being raised from the from the dead, he he lives on. This explains how he can die and yet live on and see future generations.

So you would say that Jesus doesn't exist in a body anymore, but he exists in a spiritual realm alongside uh this the father.

Well, he exists in a glorified body. He has been supernaturally raised up in a glorified body as we expect that we will be as his followers in the future. But in a very real way, he continues and he sees the future generations. And that's again, I treat all these in volume three in some depth. And I'm thrilled that you're asking the questions.

These are ones, of course, that have been well asked and well answered. And you can dig in deeper. We'll make sure we get you what you need to dig in deeper to help you. Yes. And do you think the I'm looking at two translations, one's a niv and the other one's the RSV.

I'm just wondering if you think the niv is being a bit reading a little bit in here.

well, the RSV just says he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied. Um Whereas the the Niv says after he has suffered he will see the light of life and be satisfied. Yeah, light of life, that that's based on Dead Sea Scrolls. In other words, the Dead Sea Scrolls adds that. And that's why one of the earliest texts we have has that addition.

Now, that's the Isaiah A scroll, not the Isaiah B scroll. The Isaiah B scroll is almost identical to the Hebrew text we have today, virtually letter for letter. The Isaiah A scroll is a bit more expansive.

So the NIV is simply following the reading of the Dead Sea Scrolls and understanding this concept of seeing light, seeing the light of life. But yeah, so that's, it should say so in a footnote, which if you're using, say, Bible works, if you scroll over to NIV, okay, scroll over to NIV and then, or just go over to that verse and look at notes. Uh or analysis. Yeah, let's see. NIV, here we go.

Dead Sea Scrolls, see also Septuagint, Masoretic text does not have light of life.

So because the Dead Sea Scrolls have it, and because the Septuagint goes in that direction, the Lord also is pleased to take away from the travail of his soul to show him light.

So it's saying that perhaps is what the original Hebrew text read, and it just got shortened somehow in the Masoretic text that the other translations draw from. That's just a textual issue of ancient manuscripts. It's not the NIV trying to read something extra. Oh, interesting. I didn't know that.

That was an obvious. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, well, yes, sir. Hey, listen, David, if we can be of help to you, let us know.

I do appreciate you calling all the way over from England. And again, if you need references, lists of anything, just write through the website and you'll get a response from a Jewish ministry assistant of mine. If we need to send you excerpts from my book, if you're unable to get it or don't want to invest in the e-book, we'll gladly do that.

Okay?

Okay, thank you very much. You are very welcome, sir. All right, 866-348-7884. Do I have time for another call now? Tell you what, we'll do that on the other side of the break.

I spent the first hour talking a lot about the speech from yesterday. Let's listen to clip number four. This is John Kerry on with Andrea Mitchell on NBC talking about. uh America's stance now towards Israel. For years, Republican and Democrat administrations alike have invested in two states.

For years, look at the effort Bill Clinton put into this, President Clinton, look at the effort that way back when with President Carter at Camp David. This has been going on and on. And now it's time for people to ask, why is it going on and on? What is it that is, you know, preventing this and right now what is preventing it is a coalition that seems determined to build in the West Bank to take over the West Bank as I described today for the exclusive use of Israel except for some minor proportions that may be left and that is something that we have to look at very very carefully Wow, so Israel's settlement building is going to leave almost nothing? For the Palestinians?

So you have millions of Palestinians presently living there. And a few hundred thousand Jews at most that would live there? Would somehow displace All of them, seriously? And and why is it that without the settlements Yeah, I understand they're an obstacle. I understand that there's controversy with them.

But why is it without The settlements that there was no peace. And that every time that an olive branch was extended to the Palestinian leadership, and I blame the leadership, not the people. Every time a an olive branch was extended to the the Palestinian leadership, Instead, what Israel got was terror attacks. What? How c how could that possibly be The issue then.

It's not. We played clips from Alan Dershowitz from January of last year explaining that even though he didn't agree with the settlements himself, they were not the big obstacle to peace. And Prime Minister Netanyahu has rightly said, why the obsession with the settlements? I've got a brand new article that was just, I wrote it this morning and just posted a few minutes ago on stream.org: Obama and Israel. From 2008 to 2016, a story of betrayal and reversal.

I think you'll find it very helpful. I document quotes and specific details that should be eye-opening for you. We'll be right back with your Jewish-related calls, questions, and more. Want to talk about the weekly Torah portion and some other Israel-related news. We'll be right back.

It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRU. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Jerusalem, if I forget you. I'm not gonna come from it. Jerusalem, if I forget you. Let my turn.

forget what it's supposed to do. If I ain't forgotten. That's the voice of Matisse Yahoo singing about Jerusalem. This is the voice of Michael Brown, thankfully not singing and not rapping, but talking to you as your voice of moral sanity and spiritual clarity.

So much has happened in the world with America and Israel and the nations in the last week. And we had a great interview earlier today with Bill Koenig, who has focused on Israel-America relations for years. I'd encourage you to go to my website later today, thelineoffire.org, and you can listen to that entire interview. Just click on listen a couple hours after the show is done. It is posted free of charge to you.

And we want you to be able to take advantage of this if you miss any of the interviews. If you've got a Jewish-related call or you're wondering about Israel's relationship to America right now, give me a call 866-348-7884. In my brand new article, Obama and Israel from 2008 to 2016: The Story of Betrayal and Reversal, which is now on the stream, stream.org. You'll find it shocking to read some of the quotes from our president. Back in 2008, and to look at how things have changed in 2008 as a candidate speaking to APAC, so this large American Israel Political Action Committee.

Candidate Obama, Senator Obama, said Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel. And it must remain. Undivided. Um Yet yesterday John Kerry said that a peace agreement would provide an agreed resolution for Jerusalem as the internationally recognized capital of the two states. and protect and assure freedom of access to the holy sites consistently with the established status quo.

Well, how can it be the capital of Israel and undivided if it's going to be the capital of two different states? How do you do that? And as Joel Pollack pointed out, that the Obama administration's acceptance and really participation in crafting UN Security Council Resolution 2334 on Friday, America now regards Israel's presence in East Jerusalem as settlements that are in flagrant violation of international law.

So the very place where Israel would say this is our capital is the very place and want embassies to be is the very place that's now considered ill illegally occupied. How can that be? How can that be? So check out the article. You'll find it to be a real article.

eye opener. And I'm very thankful that Incoming President Donald Trump has promised things would be very different towards Israel. It seems his historic sentiments are different. Remember, President Obama, with his upbringing living for a time in Indonesia, registered there as a Muslim. I don't believe he's a Muslim.

I'd never have believed that, but I believe he has great sympathies for Islam. And as my guest Bill Koenig said earlier today, he has been an apologist for Islam. And because of that, he has had a divided heart when it comes to Israel. And now that there's nothing to lose, so to say, he and John Kerry have really. Gone out of their way to hurt Israel and to say damaging things.

Who's it gonna hurt most? The legacy of Barack Obama and John Kerry, in my view. That's who it's going to hurt most. And what will incoming President Donald Trump do? Will he be able to achieve peace?

That's tall order. But will he be a better friend of Israel and not stab Israel in the back in this way? Yes. I do hope for that and expect that. And I hate to say I told you so, but for years I said I've got grave concerns about where Barack Obama stands on Israel.

And he's been a friend in certain ways, and he's helped with military aid and intelligence. And at the same time, as my friend Rabbi Shmuy said on Fox earlier today, little by little, he has demonized Israel. We'll be back with your Jewish-related calls on Thurly Jewish Thursday. Mm-hmm. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Yes.

My defense, I shall not He moved, he is mighty. Defense, I shall not be ruined. He is my defense. I shall not. Welcome, welcome to Thoroughly Jewish Thursday.

Michael Brown here. Thank you, Marty Goetz, perhaps Marty's most famous song, He is My Defense. We sing it as believers. We sing it as the corporate body. And we sing it on behalf of Israel.

866-34Truth. You've got Jewish-related questions. We'll do our best to provide you with solid answers. Let's go to Steve in Vesto, New York. Welcome to the line of fire.

Well, doctor Brown, good afternoon and I am a Messianic Gentile, my wife and I here in upstate New York, thirty-five years or so into the faith. been greatly blessed in recent years by not only studying English versions, but going back as a lay person into the original language. And so Well, number one, thank you so much for your ministry. Thousands of us pray for you every day for both strength and wisdom. And secondly, I understand that you were part of the translation committee for the For the TLV, Dream Life.

version or Associated with it in some way? Yes, sir. Part of the translation committee. But interestingly, although I've had input along the way, and by the way, thank you for the kind words and for your prayer support. I can't tell you how much that means to me to have people praying for us.

But yes, I'm still involved with the translation and talking about future editions, you know, study Bibles and things like that, and different ways to get the message out. And I have had input on different passages through it. But when I did come on officially, it was helping with parts of the New Testament.

So I'm quite familiar with the whole translation and some translation issues that came up with the Hebrew scriptures. But my own involvement was actually with the New Testament. Although I'm not a Greek scholar, I understand the language well enough to look at that and know the translation issues.

So I had input on the epistles, actually, most directly.

Okay. Well, great to know.

So My questions were in Genesis, and maybe they're part of the frequently asked questions that have come in. You know, when you when you get a new translation, you'll often go Perhaps to some favorite passages just to see how they're rendered. You bet. You bet. And so the first one obviously that caught me.

was the rendering of Genesis one two. With uh Now the earth was was chaos and waste. and darkness was on the surface of the deep and it And obviously so many of us were used to the the more common, formless, and void. in many translations. And I guess my first question was Was there a doctoral intent there to perhaps address The pre-adamic fall of Satan and the Lord then repairing.

uh repairing the uh universe of the world And uh over the next six days. or do you have any sense of the use of chaos and waste as the Kind of a minority translation almost compared to many others. Yeah, well, what happens is, though, that Often, when something becomes very famous, like a King James rendering, it's in everybody's minds. And many subsequent translations are just so familiar with it that that's the first option that comes to mind, even though it's not necessarily the best option.

So looking at various translations, when I look at Tohu, the first thing that comes to mind is not necessarily formless. That's not the first thing. That comes to mind. And Tohu va vohu together having a certain meaning there in Genesis 1.2. But for example, if I'm looking at a well-known lexicon, it can describe Tohu as referring to a wasteland in certain verses, or emptiness, meaning nothingness, non-entity.

And yeah, it's a minority view, but it's not without some basis. The NET, the earth, was without shape and empty.

So formless seems to be a more common unformed, as the New Jewish Publication Society translation has it.

So the specific reasons as to why TLV translators went in that direction, again, let me just get TLV in front of me. I don't. I don't think it was a reaction to the idea that there was some fall between Genesis 1 and 2 and that's what happened. I I think it's just going in a minority way. Waste for Bohu is probably less controversial than chaos for Tohu.

But just based on usage, there was probably a. And by the way, I don't think that that. That that um Is that trying to point to something that happened between Genesis 1 and 2? I mean, why would you have chaos unless something went wrong? And so it's saying there was some kind of fall, a pre-adamic race or something.

That's a great question. I mean, it's a logical question. Why say chaos? Uh so chaos would seem to imply something happened. Not that God created things in a chaos form.

And then in Isaiah, it specifically says that when he made the earth, he didn't create it as Tohu, which is normally taken to mean uninhabited.

So Isaiah 45, 18, in fact, do you have the TLV in front of you? I do, sir. All right, flip to Isaiah 45, 18. Where the Hebrew says, Lo tohu vra'ah, he did not create the earth, tohu.

So some say, yeah, that proves something happened between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. God created the universe, then there was some kind of fall, then he had to destroy the earth and remake it. He didn't make it tohu. He didn't make it unformed. Others understand it.

Most understand it. He didn't create it to be tohu. namely unformed, but but how does it read in the TLV, Isaiah 45, 18?

So 4518, for thus says Adam and I, He who is God who has fashioned the heavens, He who formed the earth and made it, He established it. and did not create it desolate, but formed it to be inhabited. Yes. Got it.

So there they translated as desolate.

So, the question would be in verses in similar context: why chaos in 1-2 and desolate in 45-18 of Isaiah? I'm going to have to ask, it's a great question.

Well, and if we were discipling someone There certainly would be the message that God did not lose control of his creation in the. In the second verse, there is. Uh there it And and uh So Thank you for the candor on that one. That's great. And we'll both do some self-study.

And the second one I've got is actually very relevant to today's message. Is the rendering of Genesis twelve? I'd say both verse two and three. Um where uh the translation team um Instead of kind of going with the declarative of I will bless those who bless you. For I will make you a great nation in verse two.

Uh it's uh my heart's desire. is to make you into a great nation. And then in verse 3, my desire is to bless those who bless you. Is there? Is there um um a heart within the translation team that's uh It goes there with that.

Because if if you Kind of read that from an angle. I almost say, I don't want to say it reads conditionally as opposed to a declarative, but you kind of get the sense of what I'm. I mean, that's a great question. And this one, I can answer you more definitively. There was a great debate among the translation team members, and I got involved in this as well.

And what happened was this. One of the translators, principal translator, is a Hebrew scholar. She's a professor at Denver Theological Seminary and did her entire doctoral dissertation on this particular verbal form of volative Verbal form based on the grammar, and examined it in Hebrew, and examined it in the related Semitic languages, and felt that to translate in the traditional way I will make you into a great nation, and I will bless those who bless you. That to say it like that was to not accurately represent it. And it would be better to go to the other extreme.

And bring in this concept of my desire or my heart's desire.

So the professor is a colleague of mine. She's brilliant in this field. And there are some others who weighed in. A scholar from Israel who affirmed her work in this. And I opposed it, feeling that it would give that sense of conditionality, which was not the intent.

So there was a debate back and forth about it. But because of her expertise in analyzing it in such a micro way, And really wanting to say, hey, this is not just like every other translation. We're trying to get a point across, and we feel this is an important point that it was ended up, that there was a decision to go in this direction.

So it is not conditional. Rather, it's speaking of the depth of God's heart to do this very thing.

So as long as you read it like that, it's very powerful, how deeply God wants to do it. But it's not, well, he might, he might not. No, he will. He so deeply desires it that he will.

So as you're discipling someone on that, you can actually say the Hebrew is certainly declarative. It's not conditional. But it really speaks of the depth of God's desire to see this very thing happen.

So that further enhances it. But your questions are acute and excellent and much appreciated. Change the world. Change the world. Give us strict to always do what's right.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. So it's very interesting on this early Jewish Thursday to look at the Torah portion that will be read of this Shabbat.

this last day of the year. Uh It is Mikates, which is at the end of The opening words of Genesis 41.1, and it came to pass at the end of two years. And it talks about Pharaoh's dreams, and then through this, Joseph being raised up and exalted. Interestingly, the passage that is read from the prophetic or historical books is 1 Kings 3, verse 15 to 4.1. There it talks about the wisdom of Solomon, God appearing to him in dream, giving him revelation.

That's the larger context there, and his wisdom that is then internationally famed as a result.

So here you have Joseph raised up as an interpreter of dreams, hence the connection, and then supernaturally raised up to the right hand of Pharaoh from the dungeon of Egypt. That is how it ties in with the weekly Torah process. Portion 866-348-7884. Make sure I don't forget. Let me just do this now.

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If you haven't ordered, even if you have ordered, here's a great way to bless someone else. Go to strongholdoffood.com. The book comes out January 3rd. There's a special offer from the publisher that ends January 7th.

So now's the time to act. Go to strongholdoffood.com. Got that? Strongholdoffood.com. Order your copy there.

It'll take you to a link on Amazon, and you can order there at a reduced price for the book, a great pre-order price. Once you do that, it'll take you back to the Stronghold of Food website, and you'll get a free e-book then. You'll get the book free.

So, two for less than the price of one, actually. You'll get the e-book free when it's released January 3rd, and you'll get the first three chapters sent to you to start reading now. Yeah, so take advantage of this. We're already hearing from folks who've gotten the book and they're already being impacted. They're already talking about the change and the progress and no turning back.

So we want to be a blessing to you, and we're thrilled the publisher is doing the strongholdoffood.com. And hey, God gave dietary laws to Israel, so dietary issues matter for Israel's purposes to keep them separate from the nations. But we also recognize that some of the animals God forbade were dangerous to eat.

So, does God care about our health? Yes, if we're not healthy, we can't serve Him, we can't live for Him. If we die prematurely, we can't finish our race, if we're constantly exhausted, worn out, and sick and tired of life. It's hard to be a blessing to others when it's so hard just to get through a day.

So, we really hope and pray that this will be of great help to others. To you. 866-34TRUTH. Let's go to Sherrod and Raleigh, North Carolina. Welcome to the line of fire.

Hey, how you doing, man? Doing well, thank you. A quick question about the UN veto. Yeah. I haven't really had time to read it.

So I just I just heard you. The UN resol the UN resolution. Right. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

And I just wanted to know what does it mean for Israel and what does it mean for us being Israel's Biggest ally. And also, what can President-elect Trump do? Can he reverse it? Yeah, we've talked a lot about this, and thank you for the question. The resolution not only condemns the ongoing building of settlements in East Jerusalem and in Judea-Samaria, called the West Bank today, but it also declares that that territory, including East Jerusalem, where the Western Wall is and where the Jewish quarter of Jerusalem is, that that is actually illegally occupied territory.

So it is an ugly slap in the face to Israel. All the evidence indicates that our own administration helped craft the resolution and then stood out of the way to make sure that it passed. We didn't veto it. And it's been looked at as a real betrayal of Israel. As Prime Minister Netanyahu said, yes, even though we know you've had an issue with the settlements, you don't bring your friends before the Security Council.

And there's basically a moral equivalence in the resolution as if Palestinian terrorism is equal to Israeli settlement building.

So what that means going forward is it can give further fuel to the fires of Israel haters. It can fuel the fires of the BDS movement boycott divestment sanctions. It can undermine the peace process in that the Palestinians can say, hey, look, this is illegally occupied territory. You need to get out.

So it's very negative. Israel is ignoring it, but that doesn't mean the world ignores it. What can President Trump do when he comes in?

Well, he can make it clear, as he has already, that he does not like what America has done. Done that he rejects the resolution. America, in a joint way with Congress, can say we reject the resolution. And he could actually threaten no funding. We give 22% of the UN budget, if I'm correct.

He can say no funding. No funding. Unless this is reversed, that would be cataclysmic, massive for it to be reversed, but that's what it would take. Otherwise, you just have to ignore it and try to build towards something better. Thank you, sir, for the call.

Go to thelineoffire.org. And click on the digital library, and you'll find recent articles and videos. Write comment on that, including my latest article, Obama and Israel from 2008 to 2016: A Story of Betrayal and Reversal. That's the lineoffire.org, the digital library. All right, let's go to Baltimore, Maryland, Kyrie.

Time is short, so please jump right in. Hey, Dr. Michael Regan, how are you doing today? Doing well, thanks. Good, good.

I did have a quick question. Um, why is it that Jews are being aggressively missionized? when we were taught that this is a breed that you shall neither add nor detract from.

So where does Jesus fit in this equation? That's my first question. And secondly, why do you have to be a Messianic Jew to be a completed Jew? Sure. Actually, Jews are not really being aggressively missionized.

For the most part, the church world has very little to do with Jewish evangelism. In fact, even though Paul wrote that the gospel is to the Jew first, the message of the Messiah coming into the world is to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile, the church has often neglected this.

So you have some groups like Jews for Jesus and Chosen People and people like me who are active in sharing the good news with our people, but that's primarily Jews telling other Jews about Jesus. We spend massively more money, much, much more effort involved in, say, taking the gospel, the good news of Jesus around the world and trying to reach the Muslim world, etc.

So it's not a special targeting of Jews, although Jews may feel that way. But in short, sir, we simply see this as God's faithfulness. that in accordance with the breth, the covenant that he made with our people of old, that he did send our Messiah, in accordance with the prophetic scriptures, he did die and rise and make atonement for the sins of the world in keeping with the Jewish concept that the righteous can make atonement for the generation. Here, the perfectly righteous one makes atonement for the whole world. We simply believe God has fulfilled what he spoke, and therefore it's imperative for us to follow him.

For example, you would say as a religious Jew that a secular Jew can't be complete without observing Torah. We say that a religious Jew must embrace the Messiah. But sir, a matter of time, if you could call tomorrow or next Thursday. Let's talk more, all right? Thank you.

Yes, the good news, my bottom line, is for the Jew first. Yeah.