Thoughts on Messianic Judaism and an Interview with an Orthodox Jew, Live from Jerusalem

You don't want to miss today's Thoroughly Jewish Thursday broadcast live from Jerusalem. Mm-hmm. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. You go yes, good day.

Royal. I'm going to see you call me. Yerushalayim, Jerusalem, no place like it on earth, past, present, and future. This is Michael Brown, and we are coming your way now live from Jerusalem. All right, our tour group here, another few amazing days ahead of them.

We've got some special guests that are going to be joining us. You don't want to miss a single minute of this broadcast. And tomorrow night, God willing, or last night live from Israel, you've got questions, we've got answers.

So you certainly want to be one of those who calls in with your questions. Hey, before I introduce a special guest to you, I've got another special guest that I want to introduce to you. And David, grab the mic here. David is accommodating us in the most amazing way with SAR-EL tours. He does an amazing job with my friend Scott Volk and some of the best-known ministries in the world, coordinates the tours here.

Hold that mic right up there. David, how long have you lived in Israel now? I have lived in Israel for 25 years. 25 years. And how long have you been working with SAR EL?

For 22. What's the largest tour group you ever accommodated? 1,800 people. 1,800 tour group.

So that's what? That's like six. No, how many buses? 1,800 divided by 50.

Okay, got it. Can you do that as your bathroom group? Yeah, about 36 buses, roughly. I mean, that's extraordinary. And where was that from?

It was international. And then we also did a bigger conference that was even more than that. Got it. And Mike Huckabee is one of your regulars. Mike Huckabee, Governor Huckabee, travels with us regularly, and we appreciate him very much.

He was just here two weeks ago with 400 people, eight buses. Wow. These are major tours. It's a lot of fun. Obviously, you enjoy doing it.

You throw yourself in. I keep getting blown away by the personal care that you put into this. But what have you seen happen to people who come here on these tours?

Well, I'm going to share with you what I say to. As many of our visitors as I can. And I mean what I say. I believe that a visit to Israel has the potential to change a Christian's life. I think that their understanding of the scriptures is dramatically.

Enhanced and changed by being here, as is their understanding of their role as Christians with the State and the people of Israel.

So for us at Sarah, it's a real pleasure, an outreach, a sense of ministry to the church to provide them with the services that they need to travel here in Israel and to not just not just tour, not just shop, but to have a real Experience And a deeper understanding of the scriptures at the biblical sites. Yeah, and the thing that. actually surprised me. You know, I'm I'm very jealous for our Uh our Our folks, our listeners, those that follow our ministry, I'm jealous for their funds to be used right. You know, when we ask them to give, I want to make sure every dime is used for proper purposes.

So it's not cheap to fight Israel, to be in hotels, to be on a tour.

So when I finally agreed to lead a tour or help lead a tour two and a half, three years ago, I was shocked by how much everyone got: the quality of the hotels, the quality of the food, the amount of the touring.

So I thought this is an amazingly good investment on top of it. But I guess as you hear the reports, it probably never gets old for you. No, it does not. It's new every morning, I could almost say. Got it.

Yeah, barring from Lamentations, the mercies of God, new every morning. All right. Not everyone has a church that's doing a tour or a Christian leader they know or some other group. If they just want to find out about tours, they can be part of, where do they go? They can get on the SAR-L website, www.sarltours.com or.co, or they can just send an email to SAR-L, S-A-R-E-L.

At SAR-L Tours, S-A-R-E-L-T-O-U-R-S dot com. And either Mario or I will answer them personally. All right, awesome friend. Get over to Israel. We'll be right back with a special guest with an amazing story as we come your way live from Jerusalem.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. All right, once more, we are coming your way live from Jerusalem.

If some of you are thinking, I should have been on this tour. Yeah, well, Godwin will do it again, or my friend Scott's doing them all the time. And again, you found out how to find out about these tours, sorry, tours. There is an old friend, former student, that I want to introduce to you, Yariv Goldman. He's got quite a remarkable story, and I want him, as an Israeli believer, to talk about what he's seeing God do among the Jewish people and do here in the land.

But Yariv, let's have a little fun. First, just give a short word of greeting in Hebrew. Salon and Kulam, Ericovo, Toronto in the Debye.

Okay, and then uh greet everyone in Spanish. En español. Yeah. All right, and Chinese. Chinese.

Nimen hauma. Chanchufo nimen. All right. So we just found out that you're re learned Chinese recently.

So you grew up as a boy in Israel, not in a believing family. Correct. You learned English, though, pretty well watching T V. Yeah. So we w we watched uh cartoons, but actually I had a strong interest for some reason in uh Middle East T V we call that, with Pat Robertson was uh playing uh Seven Hundred Club a lot, Superbook, Flying House, and at a very young age somehow I really uh understood English.

Yeah, so that you would see it in English, they'd have Hebrew captions, but you you kind of learned it. I remember the first time you translated for me, I was amazed. You said, Yeah, I learned learned English watching uh watching American T V and stuff. Yeah. So, uh how old were you when you came to faith?

I was 16. 16. And where was your life at at that point? It was seeking out of a strong background of drug abuse, occult, Eastern religions. That's how I grew up, and not drugs, but Eastern religions, and got into drugs and devastated mentally, basically.

All right. And in Israel today, so you have the very, very religious Jews. That's one part of the population. The majority of the population would be more secular. But among the secular, how much interest is there in things like New Age, Eastern religion, occult, that kind of thing, New Age type stuff?

It's very prevalent. It's it's all through society. It's it's become the norm. The norm in what way? The normal, this is the common talk.

People can talk to you about energy, cosmic energy, past lives, all the way. Aliens. Aliens, yeah, yeah. Those are still kind of considered a bit weird, but yes. But yeah, people talk about aliens.

It's common practice.

So it's so interesting that even though you have a higher percentage of Jewish atheists, say in America, than non-Jewish atheists, yet there's this high percentage of Jews, if they're not religious Jews, they're on some kind of spiritual search somewhere. And that's where you found yourself. And how did you come to faith?

Well, in this search, I realized I had to call for help. I got to a point where I realized I really had to cry out for help. And I was in this stream of New Age that really did not permit invoking the Bible or the God of Israel. But I got to such a desperate place where I actually opened the book of Psalms to Psalm 27. What did you think of the Bible at that point?

At that point, I thought it was old, it was ancient, it did not belong to modern people who had advanced enlightenment like I did at the time. Right at 16 on drugs, right? Yeah. Yeah. No, I was also enlightened when I was 15, 16, using hallucinogenic drugs.

Yeah, I discovered the secret of the universe actually while huffing diesel gas. You know the feeling. Yeah. Okay.

So you started reading scriptures. And I really felt God spoke to me because it was during a time of severe kind of a paranoia attack. He broke. Through the word, the Lord is my light and my salvation. Whom shall I fear?

And even at that time, being kicked out of the house, so it had the verses that says, The Lord will gather me up, though my mother and father forsake me. Which led me to begin to pray. When I heard the gospel, though, from evangelists that I met on the street, fully rejected it completely, thought it was nonsense, but because I was much more enlightened than that. But they really prayed for me after I saw the hand of the Creator sovereignly bringing me to the only then at that time messianic-owned drug rehabilitation work in Israel. And there is where I heard the gospel, rejecting it, but becoming desperate.

And I think much due to the prayers of the people who interceded for me. And at the time, I said, no, Yeshua cannot be the way. Then I became desperate. I said, God, I don't care what way is it. I have to find.

You. It was soft knocking on the door, and it became to I'll break down the door. You have to show yourself to me. Um. The night before I came to faith, I debated the evangelists against everything they said.

Early morning, around 5 a.m., I woke up and went outside in the southern city of Elot. Just the very presence of God came. Instantly, I knew it was Yeshua. Just overpowering presence. And who had Jesus been to you, Yeshua?

Who was he growing up? Was he in your thinking at all? Was he the God of the Catholic Church? Was he some Jew that was misunderstood? Who was he to you?

So I had a unique paradigm growing up with a very new age father. And I also had the paradigm of having seen the testimonies at 700 Club with Pat Robertson and having really been touched deeply by these testimonies as a five and six year old and prayed actually with him many times and only to forget about these prayers later on. And then when I began to read Narnia books, I'm immediately as a kid, maybe about 10 years old, I was like, okay, I know what you're trying to do here. I know who Aslan is. And it really, so the image of Yeshua really appealed to me as a good part.

Positive image throughout my childhood. Interesting. And you know what's fascinating? Of course, every young man in Israel, unless you're ultra-Orthodox, is going to serve in the military for three years. Correct.

And I'm just looking at statistics here that every year there's 75,000 young people that are discharged from the IDF. A third of them then travel across Asia, South America, supporting businesses at home and abroad. But a lot of this is a spiritual search. A lot of it. And you can go to Kathmandu and Nepal.

You can go to various places in India. In fact, I have some friends. They're set up in Nepal to do outreach.

So Christian friends who love the Lord and they have a house of prayer, and they're there specifically for Israelis that come by there. And not far from them is an ultra-Orthodox Jewish house, Chabad, their group, and they're set up for this.

So they're in Nepal. And one of my friends was there, and he said there are even restaurants you can go to that have menus in Hebrew in Nepal.

So there's this level of spiritual seeking, but it's not only outside of the pale of our history and tradition, as if that's. Where you're going to find that enlightenment, just like we went through in the 60s, especially in America.

So, God, after God working on you for a period of time and the prayers of God's people reaching heaven and God dealing with you, convicting you, you experience His presence. You know it's Yeshua. How old are you at this point? Oh sixteen. Still sixteen.

What happens to the drugs and and all the other stuff? It went away. But before I tried to quit just because of the wanting to be spiritual in the new age term, but it was difficult. Then all of this went away. I remember that it just lost all its magic.

I basically was looking in the drugs for something that would be so overpowering, like an escape. But when the presence of God came, that was the true overpowering, which I did not want. I wanted to be overcome because I just love and the peace. the peace. Actually, the same night I came back from work and debated with the same people, only debating for the gospel.

That's what's called born from above. Born again. New heart, new life, transformation. And we could, there's a whole... Detailed story from then to today and 13 children later.

So, how old are you, Yarif? I'm 42. 42. Yeah. Do you remember how old you were when you had your 10th child?

When I had my 10th child. Oh, my God.

Well, do you remember how many kids you had? I was probably, I was 30. Yeah, I was 30 around 30.

Okay.

So there's a whole history there and many stories. And your six-year-old daughter is here with you tonight. Just came from a house of prayer going after the Lord. But you ended up coming with your family. I forget how many kids it was then.

Five. To our school in Pensacola. And then went from there to work with perhaps the most radical missionary in the field that we knew in Mexico. Just went there. That's where you learned Spanish.

Yes.

Okay, so you never did it the easy way. No. Just went in wholeheartedly. But you've been back in Israel now for years. You worked with Sarah Al Tourist for a while.

Now you do a lot of work with translating. But you're involved with friends, another grad from our school, that are in what you call a house church movement.

So, people being saved and then discipled in that setting and then multiplying those groups.

So, we come back. I want to talk about what you're seeing. What's different in Israel today than, say, 25 years ago when you came to faith? What's happening in terms of spiritual openness? What's happening in terms of people having their faith in Yeshua and anything happening among the religious, among the young people?

We'll find out as we talk to Yariv Goldman on the other side of the break. I may take some calls also. 866-34TRUTH, 866-348-7884. If you have any Jewish-related questions, we will take your calls as well. And everybody in the room here, get thinking.

If you have a Jewish-related question you want to ask me, we're going to take some Jewish-related questions on the air today. 866-34Truth. Oh, listen, if you're listening to me on 5:70 a.m., WMCA in New York, I've got a very important announcement. We come back. Don't go anywhere.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Jerusalem, if I forget you I am not going to come from Rabbita. Jerusalem, if I forget you. Left by right hand. Forget what it's supposed to do. Words of Psalm 137 from Matisse Yahoo, a man who's been on his own unique journey.

Pray for him to really come to know the love of God expressed in Yeshua. This is Michael Brown coming away live from Jerusalem. Uh I was looking at an article today on the foreword. This is a liberal Jewish publication in the States, and it's one of the oldest, maybe the oldest Jewish publication, Hebrew, Yiddish, English. And there's a question about Donald Trump's speech to Congress.

Was Donald Trump's speech his bar mitzvah moment, meaning his coming-of-age moment? But it takes a Jewish newspaper to report it like that. Also, interestingly, interestingly, the Uh page of the Palestinian Authority was shut down on Facebook. You say, well, why would it get shut down? Apparently, because it depicted Mahmoud Abbas with a weapon, and this was looked at as potentially violent or inflammatory.

I've seen a ton worse stuff there, which I've pointed out to Facebook, and they said, no, it doesn't violate our standards and guidelines. You go the other way, you know, something that's considered offensive to Palestinians, that would often get blocked, but offensive to Israelis wouldn't. But anyway, just to note that for you. All right, before I go back to my guest, Ariv Goldman, and get an eyewitness report on what's happening here in Israel. If you're listening on 570 AM WMCA, it's been our joy to come your way daily the last five years.

Six years, actually, starting in March of 2011.

So it's six full years now. It's been our joy to do so. And in fact, I've actually gone around the country and preaching and teaching as we've raised funds for ministry. We've actually raised funds to be on the air in New York. It'd be great if everyone in New York covered the cost of the broadcast, but that was never the case.

We have sacrificially raised funds for the joy of being on with you in New York, but we will not be broadcasting at this time on WMCA as of the end of this week.

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So you don't have to miss a single second of our broadcast. 866-348-7884. Let's go back to Yariv here.

So, Yariv, when you came to faith, that was a little over 25 years ago. You've been out of Israel some, but you spent much of your time here. You've had your own journey, like everyone else, passed through ups and downs and challenges, and you've seen God's faithfulness through all of it. Your wife now has a very interesting history. How did she get to Israel?

She was actually quote unquote adopted from Brazil when she was four weeks old. During the 80s there's been like an epidemic of Brazilian babies being hustled or dealt or kidnapped and trafficked basically. And the country I think that received most babies by far was Israel.

So she was brought to Israel to a Jewish family. And she grew up as an Israeli. All right, so she is still still searching for her family now. Correct. Right, and you you gave it the best case description.

She was adopted here. But basically she was. Kidnapped from her family? Yeah, yeah. Basically, she was sold.

Many kids had, like, let's say a drunkard uncle sell them, or some relative that was unhealthy to them sell them. But on many other occasions, they were just forcing, they were using different manipulation techniques and the social services that were on payroll by the mafia, or sometimes just flat-out kidnapped, led in suitcases, led in back trucks in trucks. And they had a whole system with breastfeeding moms in the back of trucks and were smuggled across the border to Paraguay.

So, through one of those ways, she got here. Yeah. Amazingly. And then she came to faith. Yeah, she came to faith about five years ago.

Five years ago. All right. Yeah. And again, hold your we're we're leaving out lifetimes of stories here, obviously.

So, yeah, Reeve, uh, just in short, What would you say is the biggest difference that you see now in Israel sharing the gospel with the lost compared to when you first came to faith? Uh, I see a tremendous difference when I first came to faith. You'd be really hard-pressed to find anybody who knew what a messianic Jew was. What is this? You know, nobody knew.

Yeah, I remember trying to explain it in Hebrew in 1986 when I was here first time. Yeah, so in 91, the situation might have been a bit better, but it was still very, very, very sketchy. And for Army service, you'd be very challenged in the Army service in the IDF. They'd look at you really strange. Your security level, clearance level would have dropped.

Probably, it was very difficult to get decent jobs at the time.

Now, things have so turned around. For example, myself in the IDF, it was so weird. My daughter had just a quick example: she had a permission to be sworn in with her Bible, which has the Tanakh, Toran of Im Tovim, and the New Testament. Right, so all the New Testament, yep. Yeah, and she actually had.

At an interrogation by one of the head rabbis, he asked, Why don't you get sworn in just with the New Testament? He called her up in the middle of just before getting sworn in, high-ranking officer. She almost died. And he's like, Why just get sworn with the New Testament? She's like, No, God forbid.

He's like, Why? She's like, Well, that's the basis, everything. This is my life, the law, the prophets, and the writings. And he's like, Wow, I've never met somebody like you. And he gave her the permission.

Green light to do that. And so things are really different in this respect. And most Israelis that I meet will know when I say Udima Shikhid, they're going to know what this means now.

So things have changed. And then in the Arab world, the Muslim world, some of your colleagues who are involved with church planting, reaching out, they're seeing some amazing things, aren't they? Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah, some of the grad from School of Ministry, BRSM, and they're seeing house congregation movement in Muslim areas. With secret believers, but it's increasing tremendously.

And now we're hoping to duplicate and replicate the same increase of this network inside the Jewish population. All right, friends, pray for your reef, pray for others. There's so many in Israel reaching out. You can stand with them, and you can stand with us as we are on the front lines of reaching the Jewish people the gospel.

Some of the most effective tools in Israel took materials of ours, put them out in Hebrew, and they're reaching people.

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So go right now. Go to the lineoffire.org, click on donate, and let's partner together for Israel's salvation. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. The same Welcome, welcome, friends, to the line of fire broadcast live from Jerusalem. There's still just something about the city.

I know that Jewish people need Jesus, need Yeshua to be saved like anyone else. I know there are great spiritual strongholds here in Jerusalem. I know that the prophets throughout the scriptures had very strong words of rebuke for Jerusalem. I think of Yeshua in Matthew 23, beginning in verse 37, where he says, O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you stolen the prophets and killed those sent to you. How often I wanted to gather you together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you weren't willing.

And he says, Behold, your house has left you desolate. And I say to you, you will not see me again until you say, Berucha, Baba-Shema-Nana, blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. It's a word of judgment on Jerusalem, and yet. He says, you won't see me again until you welcome me. In other words, a Jewish Jerusalem must welcome the Messiah back.

So there is history here. like no other city in the world. There is a present battle over the city like no other city in the world. It is the city of greatest controversy of any city in the entire world that everyone wants to divide up a certain way. And it's the city to which Jesus himself will return.

So there is a future here. And Isaiah 62, the prophet is called on by the Lord, and the prophet calls out to. Set up prayer and intercessors who will call out to God night and day. Until God makes Jerusalem the praise of all the earth. In Isaiah 62, 7, it says that that has not yet happened.

And you can't just spiritualize it and say, well, that means the church. That would have been a completely foreign meaning to the prophet and to the whole context. And there's a fascinating verse where God says, give yourselves no rest and give me no rest. They're called in Hebrew maskire danai, which is literally those who put the Lord in remembrance.

So he loves it when we go back to him and we remind him. But God, you promised, like a little child. But daddy, you promised. It's written. You promised.

When are you going to do it?

So he says, give yourselves no rest.

Okay? The watchman on the wall. Give yourselves no rest and give God no rest until he establishes Jerusalem as the praise of all the earth. That will not happen through Israel's brilliance. That will not happen through military might.

That will not happen through the beauty of Jewish tradition. That will happen when King Messiah returns here and establishes his kingdom here. And as many times as I come to Jerusalem, there's something just significant and impacting about it.

Something unique, something unusual, something eternal. I was praying one time at what Israelis was known as the Kotel, the wall, but others would call the Wailing Wall or the Western Wall. And someone said, Well, what's the big deal of praying there? It's just just a piece of real estate. I understand that.

I fully understand that. But when there is a history to a place, you can feel it. And when you join your prayers with the prayers of millions of others who've cried out there, some in desperation to know God and seeking God, there is just something very, very sacred about it. And our tour group will be getting to sacred places, the Garden of Gethsemane and the Mount of Olives and the wall itself. And we'll see outside what would have been ruins of the second temple, these little places you walk down steps on one side, come out on the other.

These were just the many baptismal pools, the pools for ritual immersion. And there would have been plentiful pools available.

So when Peter preaches in Shavuot, the Feast of Weeks in the book of Acts, Pentecost, the second chapter of Acts, and then 3,000 come to faith right as a result of his message, there would have been plenty of places to immerse them right there. We come back. I'm going to take some questions from our tour group, Jewish-related questions on this thoroughly Jewish Thursday. And if you've got a question for me, give me a call, 866-342-888. 866-348-7884.

Any Jewish-related, Israel-related, Hebrew-related question of any kind, we'd love to take your questions. Do our best to give you solid answers from the Word of God. We come back live from Truvers, stay with us. Shake the name. Change the.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Jerusalem Uh Oh, Jerusalem.

Wow. Don't you believe in him? Don't you know? Can't you see your key? It's a smell.

From Galilee. Thanks for joining us, friends, live from Jerusalem. This is Michael Brown. Welcome. To the line of fire.

Yeah, we are live here. Hey, let me mention one thing before we go to the phones. 866-34Truth. It's 866-348-7884. And field some questions from our tour group here as well.

But if you heard in the first half hour of the show, Yariv talked about watching Middle East TV as a boy and watching cartoons that had a Christian message in them and the watching 700 Club.

Well, we are about to start broadcasting two shows, two Jewish outreach shows on Middle East TV. Nothing like this has ever been done in terms of what's going to be broadcast specifically to reach Jewish people with Hebrew captions.

Some of the shows are shows we developed in the past with Inspiration Network that will now be aired on Middle East TV exclusively for Jewish outreach. And others we are about to start recording early next month. Pray with us. Believe God with us for anointing. I'm going to be sitting in a studio in the States talking directly to Israelis, both sex and Israel.

Secular, Orthodox, and everybody in between and on either side. We also have footage that's already been shot of many Israelis answering questions. What do they believe about Messiah? What do they believe about the coming temple? There's going to be another temple built.

What do they believe about Yeshua? Things like that, sin atonement. And I'll be interacting.

So this is a unique opportunity. Basically, if you have a TV with a cable connection, which would be the vast majority of TVs in Israel, you get Middle East TV. And this is an extraordinary door that the Lord has opened.

So believe God with us for supernatural favor and grace and for many Jewish viewers to come to faith. And we'll have ways to get Hebrew New Testaments to them and other things so that there can be follow-ups.

So an extraordinary, unprecedented opportunity. All right, let's go to the phones. We'll go to Frank in Richmond, Virginia. Welcome to the line of fire.

Well, thank you, Dr. Brown. It's an honor to speak to you. I have a general prophetic question to address. When do you expect um the Jews to rebuild the third temple.

And do you expect a timeline or is that unknown?

Now, I have a very precise, detailed answer. In fact, I'm going to reveal it here live from Jerusalem to everyone listening around the world. I have no Idea. That's my very precise answer. I don't know that there's any way that we can know that, Frank.

Certainly, when Israel was reestablished as a nation in 1948 and people recognized the miraculous nature of that, there are many Christians thinking, okay, this is it. It's all over. Everything's going to change rapidly. Certainly, within 40 years, they're saying Jesus will return. When Jerusalem was restored to Jewish hands in the Six-Day War in 1967, people thought this is it, everything is imminent, and then, well, maybe 40 years from there, well, of course.

All these things have gone on. We're about to celebrate the 50th anniversary now of the liberation of Jerusalem. Still, the Messiah has not returned, and still, there's no prospect of building a third temple. The reason being that you've got the Dome of the Rock, you have the two mosques there, Al-Aqsa Mosque and Dome of the Rock, but the one primary one would be on the location where the third temple would have to be built.

Some have argued there's another location, but basically, that's the general consensus. And it would take a massive, it would be a world war of cosmic proportions if there was to be an actual attack on that mosque. Just the rumor spreading. That Israelis are trying to keep Muslims from praying there, or that someone went in there that was defiled, causes riots all over the city, causes Jewish blood to be shed by a 15-year-old kid that gets worked up about it and goes and kills someone. The idea that the idea that there would actually be a demolishing of that.

And that a temple would be built there is is completely impossible to conceive.

So Joel Richardson has a theory of it that if you have an Islamic Antichrist figure, that he could broker an arrangement with the Jews, because why else would Jews even care about a peace process here with someone like that? But that he would give the dome of the rock and say, okay, here, go ahead, do what you need to do, build your temple here. That's actually a scenario that makes sense. I can't give you an ounce of scripture. To support that happening, or a specific scripture that would point to it.

So I really don't know.

Now, here's the interesting thing, and Yuri, let me just get you back over here for a second. There There is a group called the Temple Mount Faithful. There are people who have built A lot of the garments for the high priests and the Levites, the altar, the sacred utensils to be used and things like that, the lampstand, lots of things have been built. Obviously, there's no Ark of the Covenant or Ten Commandments or things like that that have been recovered or found. But in point of fact, a lot of this has been done.

But Yariv, your average Israeli, do they think about the Third Temple? They think about it just because they hear about it on the news. I mean, it looks like a group of extremists who are actually thinking to actualize it. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Right.

So, in other words, Christians who are into prophecy actually are more aware of this. That's how the Israelis are finding it, because otherwise, it's just not even a thought. Yeah, not a thought. It's like sometimes in the future, those who do believe in God, we hear that the Messiah will construct the third temple, but that's like, you know, pie in the sky for most of them. Right, and for a religious Jew, It will happen when the Messiah comes.

Definitely. Yeah, that one of the things the Messiah will do is rebuild the temple. I mean, that's codified in the 12th century by Moses, Maimonides, in his explanation of what Messiah will do. You have scriptural basis for it, Zechariah 6 and other passages that point to Messiah building the temple.

So there are religious Jews who think that Israel shouldn't even be... Occupying the land now as a state, live here with Arabs, that's fine. But they think that's getting in the way of the Messianic era because it's up to the Messiah to regather the exiles and establish Israel and build the temple.

So all that to say, Frank, that your average Israeli, the only reason they're thinking about the third temple is because they hear the news, because Christians make a big fuss about it and the prophecy and so on and so forth. But does your average Israeli even know? You know, okay, where is this group? Where are they building things? If you're in the old city of Jerusalem, where do you find them?

No, no, no idea. Yep.

So, just wanted to give you that consciousness here from Israel.

So, Frank, I really have no idea. And I honestly, I don't think about it. My eyes are set. And I'm not saying you're thinking about it in the wrong way, sir. But my eyes are set on the Great Commission, reaching the nations with the gospel, reaching my Jewish people with the gospel, and seeing Yeshua return.

That's what my eyes are set on. And if the if If there will be a third temple, and it seems there will be. And one that will be destroyed at the end, or part of an attack on Jerusalem at the end. It seems there will be, because Matthew 24 has application to the generation after Jesus and to the end of the age, as I understand it. Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, the so-called Olivet Discourse.

And then 2 Thessalonians 2 seems to point to a temple that this Antichrist figure will set himself up in the temple of God claiming to be God.

So it seems there will be a future temple. Others interpret those verses differently, and nothing that I'm going to be dogmatic. About, all right, let me answer this question from our tour group from Kelly. from Iowa. At a hotel I saw a sign that read, This establishment violates the Sabbath.

Why is this? a pre-admission to prospective customers. No, no, no. This is somebody who's trying to hurt the business of this hotel. And for example, the hotel that we're staying in in Jerusalem, as is common in hotels all over Israel, has what's called a Shabbat elevator, a Sabbath elevator.

And listen, if you're not used to this, If you're in a big hotel with like 20 floors or 25 floors or something like that. And it's Shibbatzo is from Friday night through Saturday at the end of the day. Uh at at uh The sundown? I just want to tell you, don't get on the Sabbath elevator. 'Cause it stops on every floor.

So, you're going to, if you're on floor 23, you're going to make 23 stops because, according to Jewish tradition, you can't operate.

So the pushing of the button is doing work.

So you can be on it, you can do the ride, but you can't push the button. And what you you know, some would do something, because you can't ask a Gentile to do for you what you can't do on the Sabbath, but you can figure out a creative way to get them to do it. You know, you're on if they know what's going on. And they know that you can't push the button. You could say, yeah, the seventh floor is a very interesting floor.

To see if they think, because you can't say, would you press the seventh floor?

So anyway, the Shabbat elevator stops on every floor. But this is a warning, probably something to do with food. Maybe they have non-kosher food there. One hotel was threatened that they were going to lose all their business, weddings, and all the big business they would do through that. The rabbis were going to revoke their license because they hosted a conference with Messianic Jews.

And that got really ugly. There were protests outside, people holding signs saying Hitler wanted our bodies, you want our souls. There were some extremists that sliced the tires on the bus, and this was years back. And the hotel was, we had to go from one hotel to go to a different one because the first one caved under the pressure, which I can understand. Why do one conference and lose your business for the rest of the year?

So this is some kind of warning. This is either, again, I haven't seen it, it's either an official statement from the rabbis. that are there to inspect, saying they violate the Sabbath, or it's someone who knows about it just on their own, is trying to hurt their business.

So that's why it's there. It's not the hotel saying, by the way, we just want to warn you, we violate the Sabbath. They wouldn't do that. God of light, hear our cry, send a fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Have the sound of live clapping and voices. From Jerusalem, full of enthusiasm.

Just amazing to be here. All right, we're going to take some Jewish-related questions from our tour group here.

So, you're first up, man. This has got to be a good question. Everyone said it's a good question. It's a good one. This better be a good question.

It's a good one. All right, better be good. I'm hoping to stump you. All right. Okay, so my name is Paul from Minneapolis, Minnesota.

And my question, Dr. Brown, is in Revelation 7:5 through 8, there's a unique listing of the 12 tribes of Judah that are sealed with the seal of God on their forehead. And there's a lot of unique things about this listing, but I particularly want to focus on two things. The tribe of Dan isn't mentioned. And instead of Ephraim, which received the right-hand blessing from Jacob, Manasseh is mentioned.

And I was just curious: do you have any ideas as to why that is? I've never really, I've researched, I've never really found a satisfactory answer of why Dan's missing and why it's Manasseh instead of Ephraim. Yeah, actually, it is a good question. And if you stump me, you've stumped a whole bunch of others as well. I've never seen anything that was really clear and satisfactory either.

Some tried to argue that the tribe of Dan is not listed there because of, if you go back in history in the book of Judges, certain sin that was committed by the tribe of Dan and the severity of that and so on. But I just don't see a substantial basis for that. And let me say a few things that seem clear in the seventh chapter. You have this vision of 12,000 sealed from the 12 tribes. The most bizarre and the most impossible, the most ridiculous explanation is that that's the Jehovah's Witnesses, because the 144,000 sealed.

So we toss that. Another view is that it's symbolic of the whole church because the church is the new Israel and it's 12,000 for each tribe, the fullness of the church. I don't see that in any way. I see the church represented as a whole when you get to verse 9 after this. I looked and behold a great multitude that no one can number for every Nation from all tribes and peoples and languages standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes with palm branches in their hands.

That to me is the fullness of the Gentiles.

So I see Revelation 7 as symbolic of the fullness of Israel's salvation, as in Romans 11:25 and 26, and the fullness of the Gentiles as well, both represented here symbolically and spiritually.

So 12 times 12, meaning that fullness of Israel coming in. But again, why Dan is missing? I've not heard an acceptable answer to that either. The symbolism is clear.

Some say this is 144,000 Jews who get saved in, quote, the great tribulation. And I understand the. The teaching there, I don't see it in that way. I see it symbolic of the salvation of the Jewish people as a whole, culminating with the fullness of Israel. The other thing here, so you have again the tribes listed.

You have Reuvan, God, Asher. Naftali Manasseh. Simeon Levi Issachar, Zebulun, and tribe of Joseph for the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

So the other abnormality is Joseph is one of the 12 sons, right? But normally he gets displaced by his two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh. And then they take the place of Levi not having a portion in Israel.

So hence Joseph gets two. All right, so why do you have Joseph and Manasseh? That's a little easier to answer, only in that we know in later Jewish literature that Ephraim basically equals Joseph. that when we'll talk about restoration with Ephraim, that that equals Joseph. And for example, you have a tradition that developed of two Messiahs, the Messiah son of David and the Messiah son of Joseph.

And he's also called in rabbinic literature Ephraim.

So for whatever reason that Ephraim or Manasseh gets associated with Joseph, that's an easy one. Uh but why you have them listed in full because once you have Levi in and the two sons of Joseph, now you're you're missing. I haven't been satisfied with an answer either. And maybe someone will come up with it. Maybe you can devote your life to figuring that out, you know.

But. Just don't know. Just don't know that there's a good answer to it.

Now, of course. The critical answer would be John made a mistake. You know, that would be a a logical answer, but it's actually illogical. Because these books first were not just written in a day. You just sat down and wrote it out and hit a button, sent it online, and never saw it again.

So these are written only over periods of years. And you have time to correct your errors. That's one thing. The second thing is you have editors. Who are now maybe rearranging a text, or putting the prophetic books, the oracles in a certain order.

Or at the least, you have scribes who are copying. Even if John wrote it in its final form from beginning to end, you have scribes copying, and scribes, even though they recognize this as sacred text. it's very likely that if they see something that seems like an obvious error, For example, I was reading something today and I sent it to the website because a friend of mine is the editor there. And I said, hey, you got somebody else's article, but it mentions so-and-so as the ambassador to India. It's a Japanese name.

It's like he's the ambassador to Japan. He goes, Whoa, big error on this news website.

Well, you immediately fix it because it's so glaring. You know, if I said, you know, you're Paul from Minneapolis, Mexico, it's like, no, it's Minneapolis, Minnesota.

So it gets corrected.

So there's actually A tradit not a tradition. part of the science of what's called textual criticism, where you try to discover what's the original reading, what's the more accurate reading, that there's a Latin phrase called leccio differtilior, which is that the more difficult reading is to be preferred. that if you have something that just why would you have Minneapolis, Mexico? No one would have made that mistake afterwards.

So was that the original?

So, unless you have a reason to not accept the more difficult reading, you go with it. In the case like this, it would seem to be the original because it's not the kind of error. You would make, and that nobody else would catch because we all catch it reading it. It's like, what happened there? Don't know.

But in that, you've stumped all Revelation commentaries, and I've never written a commentary on Revelation. And like I said, I haven't seen an answer that's satisfying. That being said, And actually, it doesn't affect our walk with God at all. It doesn't affect a single thing we do in obedience to God.

So, for those, like, oh, but I thought the Bible was perfect. Yeah, yeah, but there's a lot we don't know.

So, chill. Chill. That'll be all right. All right, thanks. Good question, man.

All right, friends, let me encourage you again. This week, join us, join our support team. By God's grace, we're on the front lines of bearing much fruit in Israel and among the Jewish people. And it's amazing to run into folks around the world and find out people that have come to faith through outreach mature we've done. We've got a major debate coming up with a rabbi later this month in March, and some major video debates we're going to be going on with rabbis as well.

By God's grace, we're on the front lines seeking to make a difference, but it's a team effort. We don't do anything on our own. We have folks who pray with us and for us. We have folks who serve in so many ways, just like a broadcast is a team effort. You hear my voice, but without the team, it wouldn't happen.

So partner together with us. Join our support team. Become a torchbearer. Put aside a dollar a day or more per month. Not a dime goes into my pocket or our staff.

It's 100% to fund this gospel work. Thelineoffire.org, click on donate, but especially we put something together because I'm in Israel where we've gotten some great Jewish resources for you, some of the top resources, all in a package with hardcover books that you can't purchase otherwise, and with video and audio.

So take advantage of that at thelineoffire.org. You'll be blessed as you do. And remember, Pray. For the peace of Jerusalem.

So, my bottom line today: don't let up, don't stop. God establishes Jerusalem, the praise. of all the earth. You don't want to miss today's Thoroughly Jewish Thursday broadcast live from Jerusalem. The It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Mm. Yeah. Welcome, welcome to the line of fire live from Jerusalem. This is Michael Brown here, and we are having a great time.

And our folks out on the tour through the day, every day, seeing sights and experiencing things that, well, it's hard to describe. When the tour starts, and Scott and I are talking about the schedule, and I'll be thinking to myself, okay, you want people to get in every last thing they can see, and you hope it's enough. A few days in, you think, every trip to Israel is total overload in terms of what you take in. You process it for weeks and months and years thereafter. 866-34Truth, if you have a Jewish-related question, For me, friends, there is a spirit of radical Islam.

It is directly tied in with terrorism. It draws from the most violent possible interpretation of the Quran in Islamic history. And it really is demonic in that it is full of death and it is full of destruction. And there there is an attitude of extreme hostility to non-Muslims, extreme hostility to Muslims of other persuasions, extreme hostility in particular to Christians and to Jews. And I'm looking at an article on jihadwatch.org.

If you've never been there, it's disturbing reading and it's accurate reporting. From Pakistan. Muslims hail the UK jihad murder of blasphemer Hero.

So here's a report by Robert Spencer from yesterday. On Monday evening, about 400 gathered outside his family's home in the city of Mirpur and Pakistan-administered Kashmir for a rally in his honor. The crowd chanted slogans praising Ahmed as brave and courageous.

So what are they talking about? This is a man in England. And he killed a man who was, quote, a blasphemer. and sentenced to a minimum of twenty seven years in jail for murder. The judge said he committed, quote, a brutal, barbaric, and horrific crime.

He stabbed to death Glasgow shopkeeper Asa Shah. who belonged to the persecuted Ahmadi sect because he believed he was committing blasphemy by uploading online videos in which he claimed to be a prophet.

Well, in any case, this man kills him, and you have a rally in his honor, his family's home, 400, praising him as brave and courageous. Friends, this is the mentality of radical Islam. It is blind. It is destructive. It is deadly.

We need to pray for the opening of eyes, not just of secular Muslims and liberal Muslims, but pray for the opening of eyes of radical Muslims. There are... There are friends, Muslims, there are terrorists that these people come to faith. God does work. And yes, where crimes have been committed, there must be justice.

This is important. This is essential. But hear me. God is working even among radical Muslims.

So pray. I believe that God will turn hearts. This is something that's on your mind in Israel. You know, Israel doesn't just talk about security in an abstract way. When you talk about Iran and nuclear weapons, you're talking about radical Islam in Israel, you're talking about an existential threat.

To the nation. You're talking about people who want to wipe Jews off the map, or at least wipe Jews in Israel off the map, and wipe Israel off the map. And Palestinian textbooks that don't even show Israel as existing in their textbooks. This is what kids are raised with from their earliest days. They're victims too.

They're victims of this hateful ideology.

So pray. As you pray for Israel, pray for the Jewish people. Pray also. For God to move powerfully in the midst of the Muslim world. All right, we'll be taking your questions: 866-348-7884.

Take some questions here from our tour group. And I'm supposed to be doing a special interview with an Orthodox Jew that's going to be fascinating, but he's not here yet. When he shows up, we'll give him the mic. We'll be right back, live from Israel. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome friends to the line of fire.

This is Michael Brown live from Israel. In particular, let's do it once more live from Jerusalem. Oh, yeah. All right, my guest has just walked in, just finished a talk, hustled over here, and I can't wait to introduce you to him and him to you. Just quickly, there's a question from Larry in Dayton, Ohio, as to whether the priest wore a rope when he entered on Yom Kippur into the holiest place of all, because you have many of the instructions God gives to Moses and Aaron: don't do this lest you die.

And we know that there were bells that would ring, and you'd know if the guy's alive because of still moving and breathing. But Jewish tradition, and there's a Jewish website, ah.com, that addresses this. It says that in the second temple period, some people who were unfit took the position of high priest when they entered the Holy of Holies on Yom Kippur, they died. Since they lacked the ability to handle the spiritual power of that place, the other priests had to devise a plan to pull the dead body out since no one other than the high priest was allowed to enter in the Holy of Holies.

So they tied a golden rope to the high priest's leg when he entered the Holy of Holies, Yom Kippur. According to Jewish tradition, what the Bible would remind us of, for example, Leviticus 16. Which talks about the requirements on Yom Kippur, Day of Atonement, is that the high priest doesn't just go in there at any time. And there's even a reference to drinking about that. And some speculate that Aaron's oldest sons, Nadaf and Avi, who had actually gotten drunk, offered up unauthorized incense before the Lord, hence their death in Leviticus 10.

And that's why it's mentioned there in Leviticus 16.

So, Larry from Dayton, Ohio, appreciate the question. Bottom line is, bottom line is that it was sacred, sacred work, and hence this tradition arising. Hey, it's a great joy to have with me for the first time on the line of fire a man with a very interesting background and life calling. He is David Nekrutman, and he's the executive director of the CJCUC, which is the Center for Jewish Christian Understanding and Cooperation. Hey, David, I need you to hold the mic right up there.

Thanks so much for joining us tonight. Where do you live in Israel, David? I live in Netanya. Netanyahu. All right.

And where have you studied over the years? Any place that might be known to our listeners?

So currently, it's my last semester at Oil Roberts University, taking a master's in Christian theology. I'm the first Orthodox Jew to be accepted into a spirit-filled University College. The purpose of it is to find the bridge to help Jews and Christians communicate better. And so my thesis is on the Hebraic roots of the Holy Spirit from a Jewish point of view.

So I'm in the midst of doing that.

So we're examining Deuteronomy chapter 31, verses 18 through 19, and the fulfillment of that in the Bible through the book of Esther.

So that concept of God's hiddenness and accessing the Holy Spirit in God's hidden state. How do you do that?

So it happens to be less than two weeks. We'll be celebrating Purim anyway in the sacred holidays of the Jewish calendar.

So this is an opportune time anyway to finish off my thesis. All right, amazing.

So as an Orthodox Jew and not as a believer in Jesus the Messiah, so you've been warmly accepted there. Yes, 100%. It's been a fantastic experience for me. Again, as the first Orthodox Jew to be there, but I also want to pay tribute for people who made that happen because it's a big. Yeah.

I think Courageous step on their part for allowing a modern-day Pharisee like me to come into the insides of the evangelical movement and the Pentecostal movement specifically.

So, credit to like former president Dr. Mark Rutland and currently one of the major professors there, Dr. Brad Young. Yeah, and Brad's written great books on the Jewishness of Jesus and parables studied under David Fleuser, things like that.

So he would have a heart to do it.

So it's not that they would look at you as some Threat, but you're supposed to be a believer in Jesus to be there, and you're not, yet they've opened the door wide. And I'm sure it's been a great learning experience for everyone. I'm sure people have learned by spending time with you and interacting with you. Correct. So I've been on campus as part of the requirement of me attending that we have the interactions.

And it's been very helpful by having healthy discussions. I don't believe in debate. I always say to Christians, I know you believe in Jesus, divine and savior. This is a given for you. Just understand that this is something I don't necessarily adhere to.

But what the commonalities between Judaism and Christianity have need to be developed because for almost 2,000 years we've been pretty much enemies. And I think it's the first time within recent history that we can actually sit down and have a healthy discussion on the things of kingdom and holiness, which is both of us are mandated by God to do.

So I'm not going to change a Christian. I don't want to change a Christian. That's not the intent of the center. It's really to explore from at least an Orthodox Jewish perspective and how we can interface with Christians and make the world. better under the concept of the kingdom of God.

And also you're helping persecuted Christians.

So I want to talk about that. And I want to talk about the origin of the Center for Jewish and Christian Understanding and Cooperation. But first, as you talk about the Holy Spirit, years back when I was just doing research on the Holy Spirit in Second Temple Judaism and the rabbinic literature that followed, I'm not an expert on it. I didn't focus intensely. But what I found very interesting was there was a lot of personifying of the Holy Spirit.

This type of stuff you might have expected to find in New Testament literature. But the Holy Spirit, you know, in New Testament Greek is the paraklitas.

Well, you know, you have the Greek comes into Talmudic language as well, and you have similar concepts, but the Holy Spirit could be interceding. The Holy Spirit could be speaking and acting. And even though the Holy Spirit was not conceived as a third person of the Trinity in Second Temple Judaism, and although it was believed the Spirit Was on the sages to rules wisely as opposed to being prophets in that sense. There's got to be a lot, though, of overlap. There's got to be a lot when you read the New Testament, because it's a first-century Jewish document, and then you're reading some of the developing Jewish thought at that time and the traditions that have been passed on.

There's got to be a lot that's like, wow, this is very similar.

So we have our differences, we understand, but there's got to be a lot of similarity. Right.

So, again, Many Christians within mainstream Christianity will believe Father, Son, Holy Spirit, co-equal, co-eternal. As far as the dynamic of the mystery of the Trinity. Obviously Jews Don't have a Trinitarian understanding of that. I think the commonality that you'll find actually is a lot of the language used within at least the Pentecostal Charismatic movements on how they say. God is moving them in this direction.

Orthodox Jews will actually say the same thing. Actually, we have our own Jewish ease way of speaking with one another, where we'll use hashkacha pratit, it's divine providence, or something within me is moving. My move to Israel would be a move of God within me. And the communication Um device. Of God speaking to us personally is through the soul, which is something that both Judaism and Christianity share as far as how, where's where's the communication really coming from?

So I think those are the commonalities. You also see that for me, the state of Israel couldn't be what it is today without a move of the Holy Spirit. And the remnant within Christianity supporting Israel and the Jewish people couldn't have happened without a move of the Holy Spirit. Got it. And how would you define the Shechinah?

Now, listen, because I didn't come from an Orthodox home, as you know, I was not familiar with many of the rabbinic concepts until once I was a believer in Jesus and then began to study literature that I would have learned growing up in an Orthodox home.

So I heard about this thing in the church, the Shekinah glory. And then a rabbi said the Shechinah. I thought, Shechinah, that doesn't Shekinah. That sounds like really good. Shechinah, what's that?

So I didn't even realize it was a Jewish term that had come into Christianity.

So a lot of Pentecostal charismatics is the Shekinah glory. But Shechinah, that's not in the Bible. It's in rabbinic literature. You have the concept of God. Dwelling with us.

For example, Exodus 25, God says to Moses, Vesudi Mikdash Veshacha Tivatocham, have them make for me a holy place, and I'll dwell in their midst. Dwell in them. Yeah. It's actually that God doesn't care about the.

So much the tabernacle itself. That's more for us. God is more interested in having a relationship with us. You're right, the shechinah is more in the rabbinic literature than it is in the Bible itself. The foundations are in scripture, but the foundations are there.

So the shechinah for us.

So I would say this: when the Jews went into exile after the destruction of the second temple, The the Sheina went with us into exile. And it takes the form So we say that the Ruacha Kodesh, the Holy Spirit, is the voice of the dove, and when it's manifested in hiddenness. such as the destruction of the temple was and we were in exile, it takes the form of wings of a dove.

So, God is with us, trying to protect us of what's going to happen in the future. And what's interesting about this is that you learn a lot of this through the book of Esther itself, because we believe the book of Esther was written by the Holy Spirit. And actually, there's a whole Talmudic discussion of seven verses to prove. That the Holy Spirit was making this book happen, even though it doesn't have the name of God. And what's interesting is in Christianity, this book was trying to be pushed out from the canon and always made its way back in.

And the second most quoted verse within Christian Zionism is a time such as this.

Next to the Genesis 12:3, I will bless them. Esther 4:14. Right, Esther 4:14. For me, that, as a Jew observing this whole miraculous thing within Christianity, standing with the Jewish people, quoting. A book that was supposed to be out of the canon.

Amazing. Right?

So, yeah, for me, that's my observation on that, especially coming up with the holiday itself. All right, a lot more to come. You don't want to miss a word of it. Means for It's fire we want, for fire we please. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. All right.

Welcome, friends, live from Jerusalem. This is Michael Brown. Here we are. All right. Okay.

I'm with David Nkrutman from the Center for Jewish Christian Understanding and Cooperation. Not here to debate issues, but to get David's viewpoint and find out what they're doing. Find out more, go to cjcuc.com. That's cjcuc.com. David, the book of Esther, unique, unusual book.

Again, does not mention the name of God among. Manuscripts, parts of the Bible, the Hebrew scriptures found at Qumrom, Dead Sea Scrolls. It's not found there.

Some would have excluded it from the canon. But it does play a very sacred role in the life of the synagogue and the church and is the foundation for the holiday of Purim. But there's an interesting title for God in Judaism, Hamakom, the place. What does that have to do with the book of Esther? Wow.

That's an interesting question. I wasn't expecting that one.

So I actually have to deal with that because a makom usually is used when we are trying to comfort somebody who lost A loved one. And we say when someone is passed, we say that person is with God. And this is that you should be comforted among the mourners of Zion. And the name for God is Hamakom.

So I actually have to explore that name. I have to say, I don't know. We have to go, I guess, have to come back. I thought I was setting you up for one that you did know. No, all right.

So it's Esther 4:14.

Okay.

Right.

All right. This is the subtle reference where if you don't act, then help will come from another place. Right.

And this is probably where we got Makom from as a divine. Correct. So salvation will come from a different place. You're right. And that's inferred to mean that God will go ahead and save the Jewish people from a different way.

But I haven't studied the word enough to make. An educated response to what you're asking. And I don't want to try to go ahead and try to do this without thinking I'm educated. I thought I was playing right into your question. No, no, you're fine.

You're fine. I'm just, you know, again, I just came from German Christians that came to Israel.

So I just dealt with a speech in that. And then I was helping out with Pastor Stephen Corey, one of my best friends, who has an evangelical ministry here. He's a Baptistal. And we're trying to help the persecuted Christian community in Israel.

So my head is not into the whole rabbinic literature. I'm a malcom.

So I just want to be honest with you.

So I have to say, I don't know to be continued. All right. We're good. We're good on that. And let me just say this.

If you say, wow. All these Orthodox Jews, they know baptic. No, no, no. David has been immersed in the Christian world as an Orthodox Jew, so he's much more familiar with terminology. He's much more familiar with what Christians believe.

He has much more sensitivity to what's happened in history and helping to build a bridge. Your average Orthodox Jew, especially living in Israel, a very Orthodox Jew, would not know What a Pentecostal was, let alone a Baptecostal or anything like that.

So, David is much more in the know of this because of the circles in which he travels. But let's talk about Stephen Corey for a moment. He's been on my show. He is a courageous Arab believer, so a Palestinian Christian believer. He and his father have been persecuted for the faith.

What's that got to do? You're an Orthodox Jew. What's that got to do with you? You have enough problems. Jews are under enough attack.

There is enough hostility towards Israel around the world. What do you have to bother with helping for someone else who has their own problems?

So I always get this question, and my answer is: I really don't understand your question. Covenant land comes with covenant responsibility. It's my mandate that I'm given a gift from God to be a steward for his land. And that comes with a lot of responsibility, including those who are indigenous to the land before statehood. Christians have a presence here since early Christianity started.

Christian Arabs, you know, I know some people can't balance Christian and Arab together, but that is a fact. There are Christian Arabs out there. They're misunderstood. They're part of different denominations. Most of them are part of the Greek Orthodox Church and the Catholic Church.

It's not easy being Christian in the Palestinian-controlled territory, nor is it easy to grow up Christian within a Jewish state.

So here we are for the first time. Jews are ruling. Are reborn in their state. We are a Jewish nation. We have 20% of our population are not Jews.

And then you have within that a small minority of Christians. About 150,000 Christian Arabs live in the state of Israel. They are probably the most marginalized, or their needs are not really on the radar screen for all the Israelis. And I know what it means to grow up as a minority, as a Jew, in the United States.

So I would have to say a lot of this is influenced from my upbringing. I would have to even say that Catholic nuns. Helped my grandfather, who I never met. My grandfather passed away when my father was 18. But it was the It was Catholic charities.

Who was there at the end of his life?

So, for Christians to go ahead and reach out to my, and this is pre-Vatican II. To reach out to help out my grandfather. To me, this is all part of who we're supposed to be as what, as I said to you, kingdom and holiness.

So. If the Christian community needs help, it's my mandate to help them. It's covenant, pure and simple as that. And it's more than tikkunolam. This is not the peace core.

This comes down to if I believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, that comes responsibility. And part of that is you should not oppress the stranger in the land, and you have to love the stranger in the land. And the stranger doesn't mean my own people, it means the other. And since we're a center for Jewish Christian understanding, my specific mandate and calling in life is Jewish-Christian relations.

So I can do great with the Western church that visits Israel. I go out around the world and they talk about the importance of this relationship. But if I don't do anything at home, then I'm a hypocrite.

So I have to find those Christians willing to work with us. And Pastor Stephen Corey. literally is a courageous man of faith. He sacrificed so much. And for him to have a relationship with me I think is is more profound because the worst thing for me is a bad PR day.

But the worst thing for him is actually little physical harm. Yeah. And so. He he made me a better Jew. Throughout this process, because of what he's done for his community.

So I feel this is simply. What I'm supposed to do because God said I have to do this.

So that's why I don't understand sometimes the question.

Well, good. I'm glad you don't understand it, which is wonderful. And again, there are perceptions on the one hand. And along with that, there are other Israelis that may not have the same insight that you have, because there's just enough trouble. And they're mainly thinking of Arab as Muslim and maybe radical Muslim or hostile.

So that's why it'd be easy to overlook the 150,000 Christian Arabs. Yeah, I think on top of that, you mentioned something about me sort of immersed within this world of Jewish-Christian relations. And for 17 years, I've been trying to build up relationships. But we as Jews tend to think of Christians as medieval Catholics. And we really don't understand the diversity within Christianity and really understand that a lot of support for Israel comes within, I would say, the spirit-filled movement that crosses denominational lines.

And that to me is fascinating, but most Jews won't understand what a spirit-filled Movement is.

So, because we like pre-packaged Christianity to deal with at the end of the day, I know that you believe that, that, that. And that, and what I've learned over the 17 years is you have to take the person for where they're at right now in their journey. And most people don't understand their calling for the support of Israel. They're learning as they go along, and it will take them years to sort of flesh that thing out. Same thing with me.

When I first started out, believe me. I didn't know anything and I just wanted to have a sincere relationship. All right, more to come with David McCrutton live from Jerusalem. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to the line of fire live from Jerusalem.

And our tour group in full throat here, and I'm also joined by David Nakrutman. He is an Orthodox Jew. He's finishing up his Ph.D. work at Oral. Masters, Masters.

Oh, Masters, Masters. I promoted you ahead of you. I would love if you'd get me the doctor. His master's degree at Oral Roberts University as an Orthodox Jew is part of his role as working in the Center for Jewish Christian Understanding and Cooperation. Notice it doesn't say the Center for Jewish Christian Conversion and Confrontation, but the Center for Jewish Christian Understanding and Cooperation.

Listen, we each live in our own particular worlds. We each have particular missions. David knows I've done many debates with rabbis and interacted. And wherever. I can build a bridge to a fellow Jew, and we can understand each other better and work together for the common good of the synagogue and the church, for the people of Israel and Christians.

We'll do it in a heartbeat, with with great joy.

So I love to have debates and discuss issues, and I'd love to be friends with my fellow Jews. And for David, I really appreciate what he's doing because, look, There is not some secret ulterior motive here. Just like having him on the air, I have no secret ulterior motive. He has no secret ulterior motive where he's trying to get Christians to be anything but Christians. He wants them to be better Christians by better understanding Jewish roots, Jewish foundations, and And let Christians pray for Jewish people, do everything they do, but understand better, have a way to cooperate, work together.

So it's not just abstract, kind of a sentimental love.

So, David, tell me about the origins of the CJCUC.

So, um. My it comes with two journeys that are working in parallel up until 2007.

So, for me, my personal testimony begins with the Israeli Consul in New York, where I was serving as a media and community relations person. And I was able to put my boss who spoke Spanish, the Deputy Consul General Yossi Livnet, on Telemundo Television. A pastor from Bay Ridge Christian Center in Brooklyn, New York, saw my boss had a calling from God in early 2001 to do a night to celebrate Israel in Spanish. And then at the last moment, An hour before Shabbat I get a call from my boss saying he can't do it. can I go and do it instead of him?

And this was a very it was it was a dilemma for me for one moment saying, do I adhere to my religious upbringing and not going into a church from a very strict religious interpretation of the law? Or do I value my job?

So I confessed that I value my job that particular moment and I said yes, and then the guilty feelings descended upon my shoulders from heaven. And well, a nice Jewish boy like me needs a legal loophole, 1A0 call a rabbi. And then I called my pulpit rabbi and I asked him for the dispensation to go to church. And he gave it to me, saying, listen, we're in a war right now. This is the beginnings of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Commanding officer told you to go, no questions asked.

So I said, Thank you. And again, I go back, I think of Christians as medieval Catholics, Sister Act II, stained glass windows, Jesus on a big gigantic cross, monks, whatever they're doing, and some type of pool in the back because you like to dunk. I just am totally naive about anything of Christianity, and I'm afraid to walk in. I'm thinking something is going to happen here. But when I do walk in, it's a pleasant surprise of hundreds of Spanish-speaking people.

Waving Israeli flags and singing Israeli songs. And I'm like, I'm in the Twilight Zone. This is a Twilight Zone moment. I'm like, who are you? And where did you come from?

So, whatever happened that particular Friday evening, and speaking to the church, Monday morning comes around. And the ambassador calls me into his office and says, you are now in charge of Christian affairs.

So, in Christianese terms, I need to pray about it. In Jewish terms, I really need to think about this. And I was like, you know, because I went to a church service and because I'm the token religious Jew in the Israeli Council, it doesn't make me the expert in Christianity. And I go back to my rabbi who gave me the original dispensation I could go and I said, What do you think? And he reveals to me for the last 25 years what we'll hear on the other side of the break.

Oh, yeah. and I know you're not going anywhere. Angel World O God of burning, cleansing. Flame, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Yeah. That music tells you it's Thursday Jewish Thursday, but also tells you this week we are live from Jerusalem.

All right, and I'm sitting here with David Ncrutman. Tell us the fascinating origins of the Center for Jewish Christian Understanding and Cooperation. Go to cjcuc.com, cjcuc.com to find out more. All right, so David, you're telling us about how you kind of thrust into this journey providentially, and now what happens?

So, um, My rabbi reveals to me that he was involved in Jewish-Christian relations for the last 25 years more in the Jewish-Catholic relationship than within the evangelical one. And he lays out this vision for me saying that Jews and Christians believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. We have a common scripture that we believe is the Word of God. We are supposed to be His active agents to bring the kingdom of heaven down to earth, and we're all waiting for this messianic moment together. Yes, there are differences between Judaism and Christianity, but what.

Uh What the commonalities we have between one another far outweighs what divides us. He also said to me, If you're going to be a leader within the sacred calling, you must be led by him, by that voice. And it's going to take you into very uncomfortable situations that you're not used to from your yeshiva background. And I come from a very strict yeshiva background. And so I just said yes.

And I said, I don't have no idea what you're talking about. I'm a deer in headlights, but I'll learn my street theology as we go along with this.

So I go back to my boss and I said, I'll do this on three conditions. Number one, I need to learn about Christianity because I think it's dishonest to enter into a relationship without knowing who you are. Number two, I then parrot everything my rabbi said about the vision and how to do this on faith as opposed to a media moment to get Israel's story into the Christian media. And number three, I need my rabbi aboard. And he agreed on the condition that I write a white paper on every single denomination within Christianity, their political and theological stance on Israel.

I had six months to complete this with a strategy.

So, as I told you before, since I thought you were all Catholic, I thought this was going to be an easy thing to do. But then you sort of learn the history of Christianity and learn that there are about over 30,000 different movements within Christianity. You have your Presbyterians, your Episcopalians, your Lutherans, your Methodists, and then somehow you have the Southern Baptist, but the Northern Baptist, the 150 Independent Baptist movements, and then within the Spirit-Fill movement, you have Calvary Chapel, Assemblies of God, and Foursquare. Wow, this is confusing. And I thought Jews had problems.

We don't even have a tone.

So I'm just saying. But this was very hard. You know, how do you explain this to Israelis that are? I I don't have a clue about until you figure out certain common denominators, it can look pretty confusing. It is very it is, right.

So at the beginning, I honestly wanted to work with the Catholics because there were, at that time, 35 years of official dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Jewish people, plus you had Vatican-Israel relations, and people are appointed to these positions, and Jews love A spokesperson. If I can go to you and you can represent everyone, I want you. Mm-hmm. You find out really quickly if you're not working within the organized religious world. That you have to develop this relationship one pastor at a time.

And at that particular time, I didn't go with the Catholics because of, unfortunately, the sex scandal abuse that was happening at that particular point of time, budget cuts, and Israel's not on. the radar screen. And then you have the mainline Protestant movements. At organizationally, beginning the BDS boycott divestment and sanctions movement. And from a government perspective, that's not an equal symmetry.

And then I heard about Non-denominational Christians or spiritual Christians in in uh the ni in mainstream movements willing to stand with Israel, but just didn't know who I'm supposed to speak to. Because I'm looking for that spokesperson. And then I actually have a coffee table book. Billy Graham, ambassador to God. And I'm like, wow, you guys have an ambassador.

That's it. This is amazing. Appointed by heaven. You bet. And maybe I should speak to him.

And actually, this is when the voice of God pops up again and says, You need to go back to the church who originally invited you. And I said, okay.

So, this is your Seinfeld moment. We meet in Mendy's restaurant at Grand Central Station over some good deli. And I'm going to conquer Jewish-Christian relations in this moment. That's how naive I was.

So we sit down and we talk about the concept of. A Christian prayer service for the peace of Israel inside the Israeli consulate, since that's the state of Israel within New York. And in March of 2002, we have the first Day of Prayer for the Peace of Jerusalem, which eventually became the International Day of Prayer for the Peace of Jerusalem with Robert Stearns and Jack Hayford. On the first Sunday of every October.

So that came out from my office. Really? Yeah, and the first Christian Taglit birthright program, the Israel Experience. Was a road trip from Reverend Thomas Trask's office, the former superintendent of AG. Yep, some of this of God.

Right.

And then making our way to Mike Bickel. Before that before the new Facility. It was still in the old the old house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. International House of Prayer.

which I didn't know I thought it was the International House of Pancakes at the time. That was better known. IHAP was better known for that. And these folks have been praying for Israel for years. Right.

And there's this 24-hour service of prayer constantly happening. But again, this is all new. And so on this road trip with my rabbi and Robert Stearns, myself. We come up with the idea of the Israel experience. And there are other things that have happened within.

Watchmen on the Wall program, so and so on and so forth.

So I've been very fortunate serving a greater vision than I than me, for the advancement of Jewish Christian relations, but I want them to make Aliyah. And I do that in 2005 with my family. Never thinking I would go back to this.

Now, at the same time, Rabbi Shomo Riskin, who's the chief rabbi of Afrat, is going through his Christian experience. It began with the Sisters of Mary from Darmstadt, Germany. Yeah, Besslier Schlink.

Okay, Sister Mary. Yeah. Forty nuns and Lutheran habits, come to a fraud in 2002 To comfort the city because no one was coming to Israel. Tourism was down, I think it was 85%. and no one was visiting.

Uh, any place in Judea and Samaria. And here are these forty nuns coming off in a yeshiva campus. Singing Nachamu, Nachamu Ami, comfort ye, my people, comfort ye, my people. And then more and more Christians started to visit, and from Rabbi Ruskin's point of view, He's experienced this unusual Christian that's standing with Israel. And he starts to have his transformation.

And then in 2007, at Ben-Gurion airport, Rabbi Riskin and I meet. To begin talking about creating the first Orthodox Jewish Center to religiously. and spiritually advance our connection with one another. Unlike some other Orthodox Jewish organizations that only go ahead and interact with Christians on a social justice issue or a common educational issue, for example, school vouchers in America, right?

So the Orthodox Jewish community is in tandem with the Christian community of having charter schools and having tax dollars pay for religious education. But I want this is beyond that. This is a spiritual connection.

So, Rebber Riskin. which we will call sort of the Billy Graham of Judaism. Because he's that type of person that's able to cross denominational lines within Judaism, has done so much for world jury and for the state of Israel, re-established the city of Afrat 35 years ago. And he's had a... He left left being a major synagogue in Manhattan.

Right.

He started a synagogue during a studio 54 days in his apartment, and then became thousands of people, became members of the Lincoln Square Synagogue. And he didn't always have a great experience with Christians. There was a time when he was involved in some mainstream Jewish-Christian relational dialogue during the Yom Kippur War in 1973. And a priest said to him, Well, maybe it's time for the Jewish state to finally be decimated. And that actually gave him a negative attitude to actually never come back into this again.

And it took the Sisters of Mary from Don Shab Journey to change this transformation for him. And in 2007, both of our worlds collide when we meet at Ben-Gurion Airport. Amazing. And, you know, I spent time with the Sisters of Mary. They had a base near Phoenix, and sometimes when I'd speak out there, that would be the place where I'd be accommodated.

They had guest rooms. And some were f from America, but some were from Germany. And it was hard to find more saintly human beings on the planet. And it's like every day they carried the pain of what Germany had done to the Jewish people. And whenever I would speak, some of the German sisters would come up.

I'm preaching at a church. They said, please speak on anti-Semitism. To them, it was the only message. And it was, and of course, Sister Basilia, who was Dr. Clara Schlink, was a courageous voice during the Holocaust and subsequently said, you know, if we had just spoken up, if we had rung the church bells, did something on Kristallnacht on November 9th of 1938, things would look different and just the pain and agony of it.

And I thought, I quoted one of my books because I said, most Jews have never heard that voice. But to me, when I came to faith, all I ever met was Christians who had this tremendous love for Israel and the Jewish people and that believe God protected Israel and his hand was on the Jewish people. And to find out about anti-Semitism in church history, which was so prevalent, was such a shock. Because I'd never run into it. I'd never seen it.

And I've traveled the world, the most outlying jungle in India. And I meet people, they say, we pray for Israel every day. We love the Jewish people.

So something is happening, and you gentlemen have seized on it in a remarkable way. Friends, go to CJ. Cuc.com to find out more. This is a one-of-a-kind place. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Fix the debt, I'm sinning depth.

Priest of the order melt kiss the deck. This Jewish man brought more Gentile to God the energy The ancient king who gave him seed. Faithful priest for whom angels sing, the beginning and end. That is the voice, the voices, I should say, of Hazakim as we come your way live from Jerusalem.

Alright, Org. Delayed reaction there. And yeah, but it was it was fervent when we when we got it. According according to campus reform, Georgetown University criticizing Sharia as hate speech. Isn't that wild?

taking issue with with radical Islam, criticizing Sharia. is hate speech. And I look at another headline. Hezbollah threatens to attack Israel's nuclear reactors reported on thetower.org. Israel lives with this day and night.

Israel lives with the reality of radical Islam. And here, here, Georgetown University is saying if you criticize Sharia, which has certainly aspects of radical Islam in it, that's hate speech. All right, friends, I hope you enjoyed the interview with my Orthodox Jewish friend David Nekrutman. And again, our purpose was not to argue doctrine or to try to persuade one another of what we believe, but to talk, as me as a Messianic Jew, him as an Orthodox Jew, about some of these areas of commonality and common concern. And I commend Rabbi Risk and David Nekrutman for doing what they're doing.

Again, it is what it says it is. There's no ulterior motive there. I just want to change gears for a moment. Oh, one other little. One other little news item.

Might as well hear it first on the line of fire. It's two weeks old, but perhaps you haven't heard it. I didn't hear it until today either.

Some churches that call themselves LGBT inclusive, as the Lent season comes and as people will be marking with Ash Wednesday, whatever, they're going to be mixing glitter into the ash. The gay-friendly churches, anyway.

So, what's that got to do with anything? Nothing really, but just wanted to mention it to you.

Okay.

Last night, you heard from one of the the folks on our tour group, an 80-year-old woman, full of life energy, zeal. I never believe she's 80, talking to her and experiencing the tour with her. But she talked about at the age of 72, that God laid it on her heart to start writing children's books. She was told when she tried to write previously she couldn't write. Just your writing's terrible.

And here God's used these books, first one, over 55,000 in print, and little kids loving these books. She's written three books so far. And she just wanted to tell everyone, hey, do something. God can use you. Whoever you are, God can use you.

So, you know, the internet is a big place. And there are tons of folks online that are reaching lots of people that I don't know at all. And it so happened that we had another interesting guest with us, Roberta, that was with us last night. We've known for years. And we watched her on this journey where, you know, shockingly, she starts writing these children's books.

So we've got a strong presence on Facebook, like 520,000 something Facebook followers. YouTube, we're growing. We're newer there. We're getting up to maybe 30,000. But it turns out a young lady with her husband on the trip here has over 800,000 YouTube subscribers.

And some of the YouTubes have been viewed more than 40 million times. And she's in the studio tonight. Your first name is Karis. Karis, but you're better known online as Charisma Star. Charisma Star.

Okay, so you've got this mass following on YouTube. First, What do you do? And then how do you use it for the gospel? I do it's a pleasure to be here, doctor Michael Brown, big fan. I do makeup tutorials, beauty, fashion and inspiration.

Okay.

So so who is your target audience? Who do you think you're reaching special? Mostly teenage girls from the ages probably twelve to eighteen.

Okay.

Now obviously I shouldn't say obviously. I would assume there's a lot of competition out there. I'm not really following the makeup scene. I don't know for sure. I do have to have makeup when I do TV and stuff.

You don't need it for radio, which is sweet.

Okay, so I don't really know, but I'm assuming there's going to be a lot of stuff out there. Yes.

Okay, so what is it that has gotten you such a following? I believe it's Jesus. I believe it's the favor of the Lord. I think that a lot of girls out there are looking for something real. They're tired of fake.

And I try to be as genuine as I can, letting them know about the outward beauty. You know, I believe it's a fun enhancer or just like an artistic way to express yourself. But I'm teaching them about inner beauty and how that's important. Interesting, interesting.

So you've got this this large following and is that your most viewed one over forty million? Yes.

Views.

Okay, and and what exactly was that video? Uh that was a cartoon, uh a character that I did. Um I know I do a lot of Disney characters and Mattel characters as well, cartoon characters. Yeah, my producer here just said Christmas star my hero. We need her expertise because I'm the one that has to care these dark eyes and things like that.

You're going to be on my channel, right? I'm going to do your channel. This is the plan. Friends, what do you think about this? We've got Charisma here herself.

The plan is that she's going to do a makeover for me on her channel. All right. Now, Scott Volk, my dear friend Scott, is concerned that she'll lose half of her subscribers in the process. But I'm going to come in just looking raggedy and tired. And she's going to makeover so that I look fabulous and alive and like 25 years old.

And then we'll just say to find out more, go to Ask Dr. Brown on YouTube, Ask A Dear Brown on YouTube. And then suddenly I'll have hundreds of thousands of people. 13 year old girls. 13 year old girls wanted to come to my site for more makeup tips.

Anyway, no, we could basically say, just like we say, if God can use me, God can use anybody.

So if you can do a makeover for me, it can work for anybody. But seriously, though, these are. Teenage girls, they're under a lot of pressure these days. Yes.

I mean, you got kids cutting themselves. You got suicide. They got to look a certain way, and you got the sexual pressure, sexting the boys. And so, do you hear back from them at all? Yes.

One of my favorite tutorials, it's not a tutorial, it's actually my testimony. It's called Our Love Story, and I share Jacob and I's testimony and how God brought us together. But in that, I share how I struggled with suicide when I was a younger girl. I was born and raised in a Christian home. I went to public school.

I was teased, constantly abused. And I feel that there's power in your words. And when you hear something over and over and over again, you begin to believe it. And so there's power of life and death in your words when you're speaking that over people. And I got to the point where I believe those words and I was contemplating suicide.

And in that God, in that moment when I was contemplating suicide and I was about to attempt, God spoke to me. And I felt the fear of the Lord first, you know, wondering if what if hell is real. And then immediately after that, I felt the love. Of God, and he said that I am fearfully and wonderfully made, and that he had a plan and a purpose for my life, like it says in Jeremiah 29:11. And so that changed everything for me and my perspective of me.

Instead of basing myself, world of my self-worth on the world, which left me feeling worthless, I based my self-worth on the cross, which made me feel priceless. Because you can't put a price on Jesus' life, you can't say he's worth 50 bucks or $5,000. He is priceless. And when he laid down his priceless life on the cross, he laid it down for me, and that made me priceless and everybody in the world priceless. Awesome.

Charisma, that is the Karis, Charisma Star, Karis. That is just awesome to hear. And I can't believe you get to reach so many girls. What an amazing audience. They get saved.

They get right with God. Then it's going to save them literally from death. Not just eternal death, but death and depression and hopelessness in this world.

So keep on doing what you're doing. And hey, Matt wanted me to clarify: we need your YouTube expertise more than your makeup expertise.

So he just want to make that clear. But thanks for sharing that. And friends, here. You heard from an 80-year-old. You hear from someone outreaching 12, 13-year-old girls with makeup.

God can use you. God can use you. My bottom line today: God wants to use you to touch the Jewish people.