Updates on Congress, Healthcare, and the Supreme Court, and Some Important Perspectives from a Christian Millennial

Yeah, let's talk some more about abortion, pro-life, what God is doing, what we must stand up for. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Isn't it ironic as we had an interview yesterday, a jarring interview? with co-author of a book about Kermit Gosnell.

referred to as the worst serial killer in our land, a man who not only killed babies at all all stages of development in the womb, but even killed them outside of the womb. Isn't it ironic that as we talk about those things I get an email from someone with an update about a baby miracle someone who couldn't conceive was able to. I want to share that with you in a moment. But we want to hear some voices today, some African-American voices, because abortion in many ways is a unique attack on Black America. Or it's an attack on all the unborn.

It's an attack on the child in the womb, it's an attack on the mother, it's an attack on the father, it's an attack on society as a whole. is an attack on life. But It is especially high in the African American community, and many would argue that by design. Of Margaret Sanger and the early founders of Planned Parenthood, who looked at certain people groups or the poor. or immigrants or others as somehow less Worthy of continuing on in the human race.

We're going to talk about those things today, but with hope and with life, this is Michael Brown. You're listening to the line of fire. And if you'd like to weigh in, if you are a woman, Who had an abortion? Maybe you know the Lord now, you've been walking with the Lord, but want to share a warning to others. Maybe there's another young woman listening.

Maybe there's a teenager just Quote, accidentally turned on the radio today. Maybe you've got a word for her. Maybe you fathered a child and encouraged the mother to have an abortion, and you'd like to weigh in as well. If you think you can argue for, quote, a woman's right to choose, my phone lines are open, 866-348-7807. 884.

But you know what struck me? What has really struck me And this conversation is especially important. The day when Justice Neil Gorsuch is in hearings again in terms of his confirmation as the next Supreme Court justice, and obviously the big, big, big, big, big issue before everyone, the biggest issue, the issue of life, the issue of abortion, and with that the issue of religious liberty. These are the great questions in terms of which way Justice Gorsuch would rule. But the very reason he was nominated by President Trump was because of his strong Values that would be constitutionally based, that would be in the footsteps, hopefully, of Antonin Scalia.

That would be someone who would be a strong pro-life justice. But it is it is important that when we have these discussions, we do it redemptively. And without fail. when we've brought these issues up on the air. And women have called who've had abortions.

I mean some women who had abortions 30 or 40 years ago. when they begin to talk about it. who know their sins have been forgiven and who know the love of God. Many of them break down crying. Many of them still feel the pain.

still feel the loss.

So I want to say to each woman listening that's contemplating abortion. there really is another human being inside of you. As a mother, On only you can carry a baby. I can't. I'm a man.

I don't have the ability to conceive. I don't have the ability to carry a child. I don't have the ability to nurse a child. God made you uniquely with that gift of life. And if somehow you can't see it through, You're terrified of what would happen if you had this baby.

You don't think you can care for the baby, or whatever the implications, or. It was The result of a rape or some abuse, some sexual act you didn't want to have. That's a human life with incredible potential inside of you. made in the image of God that can have a bright future. And if you don't want that baby, there are others that do.

And there's a pro-life pregnancy center somewhere in your state, somewhere in your city, if you call them. They can give you hope. We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. He had a process that he referred to as snipping. that the children would be born alive. and that they would then take scissors and place them at the base of the skull.

And snip or sever the spinal cord of those children that were born alive. This is some of the testimony against Kermit Gosto in jail for multiple murder charges. And justifying what he has done, in fact, we're going to play an extended clip for you. You can watch the entire video. And I strongly encourage you to do that on our digital library, ask drbrown.org, a-s-k-d-r-brown.org.

Just in the search engine, type in Gosnell, G-O-S-N-E-L-L. You want to watch this video. I reposted it last night. I thought Paul, we we We need to do it after the interview that I did with Ann McAlini, one of the authors of the Gosnell book yesterday. It's a video you want to watch.

Again, askdrbrown.org, just where it says search. You've got the little search window there. Click on digital library and then search. Type in Gosnell, G-O-S-N-E-L-L, and you'll read about the Bible. and Kermit Goslam.

We're going to play an extended clip for you within the next 20 minutes. And it'll be taken from our video where he talks about feeling justified in what he did after reading the Bible. 866-348-7884. Here are some African-American leaders. Johnny, clip number two, some African-American leaders who are standing up or who stood up against Kermit Gosnell.

Clip number two. I hope that there will be some folks in Congress like Thaddeus Stevens and Charles Sumner, who over 100 years ago looked at slavery and said, we're better than this. And so they fought until slavery was vanquished. I hope that there are some brave women walking in the quarters of Congress and in their communities like Harriet Beecher Stowe. There are some people who are better than Gusnell.

America is better than Gusnell. Yes, sir, an amen to those words. And may it be so. May courageous pro life leaders be raised up to help turn the tide.

So just looking at some of this interaction on Fox News, Neil Gorsuch interacting with Diane Feinstein about Roe v. Wade. And this is... This is what he has to say. Quote, he's talking to Senator Chuck Grassley about it.

Roe v. Wade decided in 1973 as a precedent of the United States Supreme Court. It has been reaffirmed, and all the other factors that go into analyzing precedent have to be considered. A good judge will consider it as precedent of the United States Supreme Court worthy as treatment of precedent like any other. Senator Feinstein, first Democrat to question him, then immediately followed up and cited the importance of the issue since she said President Trump, quote, said he would appoint someone who would overturn Roe.

Gorsuch told her, once a case is settled, that adds to the determinacy of the law. What was once a hotly contested issue is no longer a hotly contested issue. We move forward. I I suppose he's saying from a legal basis This was hotly contested. It's not hotly contested, but he certainly knows on a national basis and state basis, various states seeking to outlaw abortion or pass personhood acts or beating heart acts or things like that.

He knows this is a live issue among voters. He knows how many voters, like me, voted for Donald Trump, one main reason being Supreme Court appointees. He certainly knows all of that. He's obviously speaking in measured terms as well, but the dialogue continued. She asked him if he considered Roe v.

Wade, quote, super precedent. Meaning, a decision that cannot be overturned. He said, it has been reaffirmed many times. I can say that. Uh she quickly added, yes, dozens.

But as the report notes, he was careful in his first several answers today not to tip his hand on how he would decide any potential issue to come before the Supreme Court. Quote, I've offered no promises on how I'd rule in any case to anyone, and I don't think it's appropriate for a judge to do so. And what would you expect him to say? I imagine If this was a liberal justice coming forward, they would have no problem saying how they would rule on some of these cases in the liberal way, and that would somehow be acceptable. I could be wrong.

I have not followed all of the Supreme Court hearings in enough detail or reviewed them to say how they responded, but my memory is that the more conservative, the less you can tip your hat about which way or tip your hand about which way you're going, the more liberal, the more readily you can. If I'm wrong on that, feel free to correct me. 866-34TRUTH. But This issue now. that we are focused on.

The issue of abortion. the issue of can we turn the tide. I did a poll on Twitter yesterday and I asked my Twitter followers, do you believe Roe v. Wade will be overturned in the next 10 to 15 years? Yes, no, we're unsure.

Yes, 35%. No, 55%. 41%. Unsure 24%. I can guarantee you, if Hillary Clinton had been our president, then the no's would have been off the charts and the yeses would have been very few.

because we know she would appoint, do her best to get nominated and appointed a liberal justice and as many as she could during her presidency, that's what she would do, just as we expect Trump to do the opposite.

So There is, in that sense, that window of opportunity. But then even with Gorsuch, I'm not sure where he would stand in terms of issues having to do with homosexuality. Based on the church he attends and other quotes that I've read, the New York Times seemed to indicate that he would be pro-LGBT activists. And then one conservative leader said, why would the New York Times announce that? New York Times doesn't want him.

And New York Times is not a fan of Gorsuch.

So were they trying to make him look bad so the conservatives won't get behind him? That was a fair question to ask. But where he would go, I don't know. And ultimately, my trust is not in a man and my trust is not in the Supreme Court. And listen.

the Supreme Court could overturn Roe v. Wade. But unless we have more of a culture of life and reverence for life and respect for life and recognition of the humanity of the baby in the womb, and more respect for the sexual act, so so that it is more something that is associated with marriage and family than just recreation and fun and pleasure. Unless we have a larger change in the mentality in our culture, we will not be a pro-life, pro-family culture. And that's bigger.

That's more important than Supreme Court. Yes, it matters. But what is bigger, what matters more, is the changing of the hearts of the people in a generation. Oh, let's just see here. Clip number Yeah.

Yeah. This is from documentary 3801 Lancaster. That was the address of Gosnell's abortion mill, American Tragedy. And we're going to hear more from this when we play the extended clip. In fact, we'll plan on doing it in the next segment.

We'll play this extended clip for you. But here's Kermit Gosnell quoting. The Bible. Until I really completed my first Genesis through Revelation reading of the Bible, which I did since I was incorporated. I really didn't feel as comfortable as I am.

Genesis begins almost. I think it's Genesis 2:7, expresses the breath of life. as the beginning of life. That God breathes breath to breathe life into. Adam.

The Bible to me is very clear that life does not happen until breath. Hmm. Yeah. First, it's completely irrelevant to quote Genesis 2 about the creation of Adam because there was no womb in which he was living. He was created out of the dust.

So he does not exist as a human being until God breathes into him. God has breathed into that baby in the womb. But not only so, Gosnell killed babies that could survive out of the womb, and he killed babies outside of the womb. And where did he dispose of the bodies? It's too gory even to talk about.

We talked about it yesterday. more than enough. I can't believe that quote you're going to hear it. In a little bit further context, we come back. I'm going to play an extended clip for you.

It's six minutes and change, but I want you to get the video for yourself. All right, go to our website, go to thelineoffire.org. And where there's a little search window there, just type in Gosnell, G-O-S-N-E-L-L, and you want the video. You want to watch the video about Gosnell and the Bible. All right, it's the house of horrors, it is powerful, it is descriptive we quote from him, I'll be sharing as well.

So, we're going to play that for you in its entirety when we come back so that you can see some of the depravity here and then recognize that this is part of the larger culture of abortion, which is why the media barely reported on this. Back in the news, big time, because of the best-selling book on Kermit Gosnel. And Alan Robertson from Duck Dynasty said he was embarrassed by how little he knew about it because the media did its best to suppress this. You think the liberal media should have shouted this one for the rooftops and said, well, this guy's bad. We all agree, but it's an aberration.

This is not what really happens in abortion clinics. The problem is. The problem is this is part of the larger culture of death. We'll be right back. Shame.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. The standard that I share with everyone, and I frequently say, is that I provide the same care I would want my daughter to receive.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kermit costs though. speaking. According to reports, when the DEA and FBI raided Dr.

Goslo's abortion clinic in early 2010, they discovered blood on the floors, unsterilized equipment, and 47 babies stored in freezer. Goslow's medical license was immediately suspended. Evidence was gathered, which eventually led to the death penalty, now taking place in Philadelphia, death penalty trial, taking place in Philadelphia. Of course, he's sentenced with three life sentences. But a few days after the raid, which ended his career, Godnell reached out to a local news station against the advice of his attorney, offered to do an interview and said, oh, yeah, sure.

I mean, this is, I just provide the care the way I would for my own daughter. All right, so here's where you go. All right. Here's where you go. Go to askdrbrown.org.

Click on Digital Library. and type in Gosno. And what you will see then is, slide down, you'll see the Bible and Gosnell's House of Horrors. You are about to hear it now in its entirety. Johnny, go ahead and play it.

One of the most horrific stories in recent years was the revelation of Dr. Kermit Gosnell's House of Horrors. His crimes against the unborn and the newly born were so severe that he is now in prison for his crimes. To the shame of the secular media, they primarily ignored this story completely. The volatile trial, the accusations of his attorney, that this is a targetist, elitist, and racist prosecution of a doctor who's done nothing but give back to the poor and the people of West Philadelphia.

The media, secular media, almost completely overlooked this, in particular the liberal media. But now he's in jail. You want to talk about a lesson in self-deception. He's in jail. His son comes to him.

Did you really do these terrible things? He reads through the Bible. And after reading through the Bible, he now finds comfort for his actions. Listen to what he had to say. My youngest son asked me, Dad, did you do these horrible things that are in the newspaper?

And I said, Alex, I don't want to lie to you. I really have to do a lot of reading. to feel comfortable that I in fact was on solid ground in my thoughts and my approaches. And until I really completed my first Genesis through Revelation reading of the Bible, which I did since I was incarcerated, I really didn't feel as comfortable as I am. Genesis begins almost.

Uh I think it's Genesis 2.7. expresses the breath of life. as the beginning. of life. that God breathes Brick.

It breathes light into Adam. The Bible to me is very clear. that life does not happen until breath. I very strongly believe in my innocence, and there are many people who believe that. There are many people who come to me who say that.

How could you be this terrible person and people are coming to you for 40 years? Dude, the story just doesn't make sense.

Now here's the real shocking thing. We're not just talking about your average abortion doctor and the atrocities they are guilty of against children in the womb. But we're talking about someone who allegedly joked as he snapped the spinal cords of babies, who killed babies once they were out of the womb, once they had breath, once they were breathing. Forget what he just said about life starts with breath, they were breathing. We're talking about accounts of, quote, infant beheadings and severed babies' feet.

Yeah. This is horrific. And yet he reads the Bible. And finds comfort. Put aside the complete misinterpretation of scripture for a minute.

Let's think about the self-deception. It reminds me of the Nazis. I've read a lot of Holocaust literature. and the Nazis' treatment of their prisoners, of Jewish men, women, and children, others. utterly barbaric, utterly inhuman.

I don't understand how a human being, a feeling human being, could do what they did to children and babies. I mean, you're talking about having people dig a pit. They dig this giant pit, and then you have them stripped down, and then you shoot them. They set the pit on fire, and then you shoot them, and the people fall into the burning flames. Here's a little baby.

Here's a one-year-old child. Why waste a bullet on it? Just throw the baby in the flames. The Nazis did that. And that's one of many atrocious, horrific things they did.

But then these same Nazis would go home and play with their children. Oh, baby has a boo-boo. Come to daddy and give him a tender hug. And the wife was discouraged and the husband put the arm around her and encouraged her because they were caring human beings and they were murderers. The extraordinary nature of self-deception.

Some of them would go to church and sing the hymns and read the Bible and find justification for what they were doing. Dr. Kermit Dosnell, shame on you, sir, for using God's word to justify your crimes against His creation. As for Adam and Eve, they were never in the womb. They were created by God, so they came alive when He breathed into them.

It wasn't just breath, it was His animation as well, His life going into them. But, sir, according to court records, you killed babies that were alive as well. They were breathing. And the Bible makes clear that when God creates us now, He starts in the womb. Read Psalm 139, sir, over and over and over, until it dawns on you that God carefully formed those limbs that you tore up and the spinal cords that you severed.

And those heads that you lopped off. God carefully formed that human being that you slaughtered in the womb, and you did it. Yeah. Take that to heart, sir. Jeremiah chapter 1, God says to the prophet, Before I formed you in the womb.

That's the same word for form, same Hebrew word for form that's used in Genesis 2 when God formed man out of the dust of the earth.

Now he forms man and woman in the womb. Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. And read Luke the first chapter. John the Baptist, just as a baby in his mother's womb, leaps. Why?

Because he's already filled with the Spirit. And Mary, Miriam, the mother of Jesus, comes into the womb and she's pregnant with the Messiah. She's pregnant with a human being, the Messiah. And John, in his mother's womb, senses it and jumps in his womb. Sir, your mission.

Reading the Bible to justify your sin. Here's what you need to do. alone in your prison cell. coming to the stark reality. that you have been guilty of murder.

Not once, but many times. and then come to the amazing reality that Jesus died for those sins, those sins of murder. and then cry out. for mercy. Cry out for forgiveness.

Jesus can forgive you. You can be locked in your prison cell. and free on the inside, but deceive yourself no longer. P.O.2 Kermit Gosnell 866-348-786. Eight.

Eight. Four.

Well The horrors continue, the blindness continues, but scales are lifting. Yes, the Supreme Court hearings are very, very important. Very, very important. But for sure. For sure, the most important thing is changing individual hearts and lives.

The most important thing is changing the attitudes of human beings through the gospel, through prayer. Let us put our energy. into great awakening even more than we put our energy into political wrangle. Change the world. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr.

Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Shall we say it again? Ultimately.

Society is going to be changed from the bottom up rather than from the top down. Meaning, as the hearts and lives of people are changed. that will have a ripple effect upward to the government. But the government in itself will not change the hearts and the minds of people. people.

866-348-7884. Here's a testimony to share with you as we talk about abortion, as we talk about the Supreme Court hearings. From Tricia. I wrote to your show a few years ago about my troubles to be able to have a child. Specialist after specialist informed me That without IVF, so in vitro fertilization.

I would most likely never have a child. I struggled with this and wrestled with it. My story was discussed shortly on the air.

Well, I never had peace to go through IVF. after grieving and pushing through the pain, I surrendered my womb to God.

Now let me jump in. I'm a man. I I can't relate fully. to what it would feel like. To be a woman who who wants to have a baby and can't.

You say, but what about a man that's impotent? A man that doesn't have the capacity to impregnate a woman. Obviously, as a father, I can't relate to that either. But yeah, that would have been. very painful as a man, and I would have felt like I was failing my wife.

And sure, there'd be pain associated with that. That would be unique. And I would say there is unique pain associated with being a woman. That cannot. have a child.

because she's also going to carry that child. and have a certain identity with bearing that child, the pain I think could be even more acute. But either way, acute for the mother or the father that's unable to reproduce.

So she said, After grieving and pushing through the pain, I surrendered my wound to God. I thanked him for my wonderful husband, family, and job. I was able to put the truth of God's goodness, despite any circumstance, from my head Into my heart, I moved on.

So let's focus on that for a minute. She's saying that although she did not feel like she was experiencing God's goodness. She knew intellectually it was true that regardless of what's happening in her life, he remains good. And that intellectual truth, that absolute reality. permeated her mind, her heart, her emotions as well.

So fast forward. She says, My faith grew. and my trust was established on his goodness. Months later, I was pregnant, triple exclamation point. No, I IVF.

My son is now one year old, John Joseph, and he is dedicated to the Lord. As long as he lives, he is dedicated to the Lord. I wanted to update your listeners and encourage anyone dealing with infertility. Go through the pain with God. and watch his salvation is near.

Obviously If that's you, You're listening. And you're saying, yeah, my husband and I are praying about that right now. Do we go with some type of artificial insemination? Do we go with IVF? What should we do?

Obviously, it's between you and God. That's a decision between you and God, but be encouraged by Trish. that God opened to him. I know others have trusted God for children and did not have children. They've adopted children and they have raised those kids and that is their family and they have been supernaturally blessed by being a mom and dad to those kids and we rejoice with you in that.

And what a blessing to those kids who were adopted. But many of you will say, you know, If God wants to give me kids, he will. He's going to do it. Others will think this is no different than taking medicine. Same with IVF, no different than taking medicine.

I pray for healing, but I take medicine. Hey, again, that's between you and God. There are other issues that we won't get into here. But be encouraged by Trisha's testimony that she just surrendered her life to the Lord. All right, if I can't have kids.

You know, if the only way is with outside help, I just don't feel right about that. Then then I'm I'm gonna trust God. and worship him is good either way. This was the result she got, John Joseph, a year old now, and she wanted to share it with you, our listeners. I thought today would be an appropriate day to do so.

We'll be right back with your calls and much more. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. According to Al Franken, Justice Neil Gorsuch represents an ideology that has, quote, already infected The bench. This was in the hearings yesterday. Franken referred to the quote Roberts Court Justice John Roberts said Gorsett's taking a seat on the bench would further, quote, infect it. But this moment in our history and our nation's history calls for us a nominee whose experience demonstrates an ability to set aside rigid views.

in favor of identifying common ground and crafting strong consensus opinions, in other words, forget the Constitution. I forget the original intent of the Constitution. And forget the clear values set forth by our founding fathers. And instead Just Come up with things that we liberals can gather around. That would be an acceptable consensus opinion, I imagine.

And Senator Ted Cruz yesterday reminded Congress, not a one of you.

Some of you here now, Chuck Schumer, not a one of you voted against Neil Gorsuch when he was being confirmed for the federal bench earlier, some years before. Why in the world would you oppose him now? unless it is ideology driving you rather than qualifications. Even the Liberal Bar Association, I forget the exact title, they gave him the, out of unqualified, qualified, or well-qualified, they said he's well-qualified. despite having ideological differences with him, According to Michael Needham, CEO of Heritage Action for America.

Judge Neil Gorsuch is a nominee very much in the mould of the late Justice Antonyn Scalia. President Trump deserves credit for fulfilling his campaign pledge by nominating an individual who will, based on his record, interpret the text of the Constitution rather than create unwritten rights supposedly hidden between the lines. Faith and Freedom Coalition Chairman Ralph Reed said President Trump won 81% of the evangelical vote in no small measure because he made an ironclad pledge that, if elected, he would fill the vacancy on the U.S. Supreme Court with a strict constructionist who would respect the Constitution and the rule of law, not legislate from the bench.

So Trump did that to his credit. But even if. Justice Gorsuch became the ninth justice to replace now Antonin Scalia. My trust is still not in the court. My hope would be that they would make some righteous decisions in major cases regarding religious liberty, regarding life, regarding family, marriage, and other things like that.

But my trust would still not be. in the Supreme Court for quite a few reasons. And where just discourse such would ultimately land on certain things, we still don't know. We have expectation. But we still don't know.

866-348-7-884. Let's go to Germantown. We won't go to Germantown. I was going to, but we won't. 866-34Truth.

It was related, but I'm going to move on. Johnny Gripp number 10. As we are talking about The Harvard Abortion. This this clip comes back to mind today. It is one of the most extreme overstatements that I've heard from Christian leaders.

Brothers in the Lord. The gentleman that you'll hear on this tape. Uh Tog Frio. Phil Johnson talking. These are men, as far as I know, who love the Lord.

who care about Scripture, who care about truth, who care about God's people. who hate deception, We would have much, much, much in common, but we have very strong differences on aspects of the charismatic movement. And I have been a critic of extremes in the movement for decades as one within the movement. And others would say, well, the whole movement is extreme. Obviously, I reject that as an extreme position.

You say, well, what's that got to do with abortion? Stay right there, hang in there. I'm about to let you know, so we go to clip number 10. Jesus culture. They are huge.

15-minute worship songs, monotonous droning, and it's all about the Holy Come and fill us, come and fill us, let the river flow and fill us, we're hungry for you. What does the evangelical church need to be doing, if anything, to be addressing this issue, which is not being spoken of? It's a bigger, far more important issue than even abortion, because abortion, yeah, it slaughters infants, and we all deplore that and all of that. But these are false prophets who are ushering people into hell. Yeah bye.

God, God help my brothers. for that perspective, that deeply, seriously erroneous perspective. claiming that say leaders in Jesus culture. Are false prophets who are ushering young people into hell, ushering people into hell. And therefore, this type of worship and these services are worse than abortion.

Because abortion you know is wrong, but this you think is right, and it's leading you to hell. God help them. for that position. Of course, I've sought to interact with these brothers. We've interacted some, Phil Johnson and I once on the air, other times by email, Todd Friel and I a few times by phone.

Again, I recognize them as brothers. I respect their love for the truth and their desire for the things of God. And their desire to keep the body free from deception. And I grieve when I believe they themselves are wrong in their positions. Hey, I believe.

that there's charismatic worship that's often repetitious. I believe that. I believe often the content of the songs is lacking. These are things that have been addressed for many years. I also believe that sometimes a very simple song A very simple expression.

A simple lyric, repeat it. before the Lord can often be of great value. because it may take time just to calm your heart. Your mind to meditate on the truth of which you're singing, to concentrate on the one you're worshiping, to really ask Him, Lord, I'm serious about this, God. I really, I really want to see change, Lord.

I really want to glorify you. And these things can often take time before the Lord. And Do I find it bad? that young people by the thousands are singing songs like God I'm Hungry for You. What this this is worse than this is worse than abortion.

These are false prophets leading people to hell. What are you talking about? Am I troubled? by young people singing, Let the River Flow, Let the Life of the Holy Spirit flow in me. Or singing Fill Me?

Feel me? And Yeah, is the filmy song Maybe two repetitions Yeah, you could make that claim. But are there young people singing it sincerely? Lord, You provide the fire, I'll provide the sacrifice. No, not the sacrifice of the cross.

No, no, not singing that. In other words, Paul says in Romans 12, offer your bodies as living sacrifices. when Abraham was going to sacrifice Isaac and he said, God will provide the sacrifice. Yeah, that pointing to the cross ultimately in terms of its spiritual meaning. And there, God providing the ram instead of Isaac in Genesis 22.

But here, young people saying, Lord, You set my life on fire. Here's my life. Lord, you have that altar there. I'm going to lay my life on that altar. Fill me.

What are they saying? Fill me with. The newest iPhone. fill me with the best wireless headset. Fill me with the newest car.

Fill me with the latest Soap opera. I guess soap opera is still. No. No, they're saying, fill me, Lord, with your presence. Fill me with your goodness.

Fill me with your love.

So, yeah, I think some of our worship can be too repetitious. I also see a lot of repetitions, say, in the Psalms, where you recite a truth and then say, and then a truth and then that's repeated. You say, well, that's all responding to truth. Right.

Well, this is also responding to truth. But but to To to brand it as worse than abortion. Boy, there's deception in saying that. I say it with pain. I don't say it to bash.

And again, thinking of the subject, this clip comes up to say, Boy, oh boy just where we should be fanning those flames. Just where we should be reaching out to those young people, second hour we're going to talk more about young people. It's a good transition. just as we should be encouraging their passion. and seeking to ground them in more truth and ground them in greater understanding of Scripture and greater understanding of what it means to be a disciple.

and helping them live these things out. Instead. the the whole form of worship is being attacked Instead, the whole mindset is being attacked. Instead, the leaders are called false prophets leading people to hell. That is what's grievous.

And look, there are charismatic practices I differ with. There are non-charismatic practices I differ with. I find it to be an abuse, where someone is loud and obnoxious just to hear their own voice and they think that's being spiritual. And I consider it abuse when people sit there like Oh. How do you want it?

Like wooden Indians, yeah. The old Vance Havner thing, that the same Christians that shout like Comanche Indians or other Indians from our history on the weekend, you know, the war cry and the chant that was associated in our culture with Native Americans. And when it comes to church service, they sit like wooden Indians. I find that an abuse. I find it an abuse when people want to get in and out of a service in the shortest possible period of time so they can get on with their day as if worship of God doesn't demand some of their time.

or hearing a solid exposition of scripture doesn't demand some of their time. I find that an abuse. I find it an abuse when someone's out of order in a charismatic service. I find it an abuse when someone falls asleep in the pew in a non-charismatic service. I find them both abuses.

So there. Angel World. It's fire we want. For fire we please. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. There was an article today that's reported.

that NFL owners Don't want to pick them up. Because they don't want to get a nasty tweet from Donald Trump. Do you believe that? It's so that. I just saw that.

I said, if I remember that one, I'm going to report it to the people of Kentucky. Because they like it when people actually stand for the American flag, right? Ah, Donald Trump talking about Colin Kaepernick, the San Francisco quarterback who is now looking for a team on which he can play.

Now, number one, he has not performed well the last couple of years. That's the biggest issue. The other issue is he has a lot of political baggage associated with him. And now he's saying, hey, whatever team he goes to, he will stand for the national. Anthem.

Uh Hey, listen, you reap what you sow. I take certain stands on certain issues. People may respond to me a certain way. A publisher may not want to work with me. A radio station may want to drop me.

TV network may not want to have me on for an interview. But if I feel it's unjust, if I feel I'm being misrepresented in the cause of justice, not personal vindication, I may address the issue if there's an inequity in the system. But hey, if I'm going to stand on certain issues, yeah, I'm a Jewish follower of Jesus. And as a Jewish follower of Jesus, I'm going to be rejected by different parts of the Jewish community. What's less life?

Following the Messiah, you're going to be rejected. And if you stand for certain things, you're going to be rejected by other parts of the society. That's just given.

So, Colin Kaepernick, in saying that he wouldn't stand for the national anthem because he wanted to draw attention to what he felt was injustice against black Americans and and mistreatment by the police and things like that.

Well He did it. On the one hand, his jersey sales went off the charts. On the other hand, Teams got cold feet towards him. You say, well, he did a good thing because it got discussion going. I'd say there are better ways to get discussion going without dishonoring veterans and those who sacrificed for his freedoms, and without painting with such a broad brust that you now create other inequities and injustices.

But either way hasn't played skewed out excuse me it hasn't played out well now now Is he? Is he being a hypocrite? He took his stand, Now it's going to cost him financially.

So he he took his stand by sitting.

So now he's saying, hey, wherever I go, I'm not going to bring any of this negative baggage. I'm going to stand for the national anthem. In other words, Now that it's going to cost him his career.

Now that it's going to cost him millions and millions of dollars he could have gotten as a player.

Now that it's really going to hit him where it hurts, his pocketbook. He's being a hypocrite. and saying, Hey, from here on, no trouble from me. Is that the case? Could be.

That's possible. It could be. Or Or It could be. that he said, Hey, I got the discussion going. I wanted to get the discussion going.

I got the discussion going. And Now it's I accomplished my purpose. I never said it was going to be for the rest of my life. I got a national discussion going in a fresh way. I got other athletes involved.

I got law enforcement people talking about things. I've accomplished the mission. I've got no grudge with the American flag. Is that what he's doing? Could be.

Who knows? He knows. And God knows. I mean, he may not even fully understand his own motivations. But I'm not here to judge him.

I'm simply here to report. that it's interesting. The teams were unwilling to pick him up. I would dare say. even though he played poorly.

that there's a team out there That would have wanted him. if not for the baggage. In other words, If he was an incredible player, and and could be a franchise quarterback. and lead his team back to the Super Bowl as he once led the San Francisco 49ers to the Super Bowl against the Baltimore Ravens where they lost in the last seconds of the game, then probably a team would take him despite the baggage because they want to win. But when you have a quarterback who is not doing well.

then has the baggage. you become somewhat of a pariah. Why even Why even Uh Wrestle with it. Why even have the controversy? Ultimately, you want to keep peace on the team.

866-348-7884. for um all right tell you what i am I'm short on time. Got a break coming up, and then we start a brand new hour.

So I'm going to hold off on any calls and then restart with calls the beginning of the next hour.

However, let me Ask you, excuse me, to be praying with us. Let me ask you to pray with us. Um I'm scheduled to do a major debate Thursday 9th. Kennesaw State University campus. The gentleman I'm debating has been preparing a lot, Orthodox Jewish lawyer.

had some health issues. And his doctor said can't travel. He absolutely wanted to. can't travel.

So we are looking for a replacement. There is discussion going on to see if there is someone willing to replace him on short notice. If not, will we just do a lecture with open my Q ⁇ A and reschedule the debate?

So it's right now, it's up in the air, and it's just two days away.

So please pray for the gentleman that I'm debating Asher Norman for his healing and for his full recovery, and that God would enable us to go on with whatever would be best. For his truth and for the Jewish community in greater Atlanta, Georgia, and for the Jewish community worldwide that would have the potential of watching this online and in other ways. All right, so pray with me for God's very best. Pray for the health of Mr. Norman and pray for God's very best.

If someone was ready to step in on short notice, if I was given an opportunity, say the day of a debate. with a rabbi if someone was debating him and that person dropped out. And I was asked if I was there, if I could fill in and I had an hour's notice, I would do it in a heartbeat with joy. If it was some other biblical issue I was very familiar with or some moral and cultural issue, I'd do it in a heartbeat with joy. But, of course, we want someone that feels comfortable, that they've had adequate time to prepare and be ready.

We want the best representation of the traditional Jewish position against Jesus being the Messiah for the fairness of the debate and for the fairness of those listening.

So either there will be the right candidate that steps forward or I'll do a lecture. and then enable rabbis and others that are there, if they are, to ask questions, and then we'll do our best to reschedule the debate. But please be in prayer for Mr. Norman and for God's best. And we'll keep you posted because this is coming up just two nights from now.

It's Tuesday now, just on Thursday night. And speaking of Jewish ministry, when you join our support team this month, we've never done this before. But when you join our support team this month, so only what 10 days left to do this, when you become a torchbearer helping us with a dollar a day. or more So, $30 or more per month, as our thank you gift, and to equip you. We want to send you an exclusive hardcover edition of the Real Kosher Jesus.

Can't buy it elsewhere. along with my TV episode from Think It Through called Jesus Can't Be the Messiah, where we respond to Jewish objections, and highlights of the audio interviews we did on radio from Israel at our tour a few weeks back.

So all of that is our thank you gift when you become a torchbearer and help us reach in the lost sheep of the house of Israel and help us with our work all around the world, including being on these great radio stations and coming your way by podcasts.

So go to thelineoffire.org and join us today. Your support is invaluable. My bottom line today, let us, with the help of God, build a culture of life.

So what is really happening among the millennials? We're going to get a better perspective today. It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Well, there is a new book out called Growing Young, Six Essential Strategies to Help Young People Discover and Love Your Church.

Sean McDowell, himself an apologist and professor and the son of the legendary Josh McDowell, gives us an overview of that book. And I want to focus on not the book so much, but the subject of the book, What's Happening with Young People in America. And then the second half of this hour, not outer, but hour.

So in the outer part of the hour, I'm going to be joined by Liberty Mercarter, herself a millennial staff writer for the stream where I write. Oh, three, four, five articles a week. We're going to hear from her and get some of her perspective as well on what's happening with young people. Here's a number to call: 866-348-7884-348-7884. And I would love to hear from you.

If you are Involved in youth ministry. And you can give me a feel on what you see. Maybe you've been involved in youth ministry for years. What's happening now compared to five, ten, twenty years ago if you've been around that long. What are young people facing today that may be different than what they faced years back?

What's happening in your church? Maybe you're a pastor leader, and you can talk about the trends in your church with young people. Maybe you're a young person yourself. What's happening with your friends? Are you finding it harder and harder to live as a disciple?

Are you finding it harder and harder to go against the grain? Are you finding more of your friends saying there's got to be more and listening to your gospel message and being more open? 866-348-1. Seven eight eight four is the number to call. I've got.

I've got an email that was just sent to me. by an individual who identifies as Susan. And uh says just read your trans sanity article I want to read what Susan has to say in a moment. In fact, let me read that now. Then we're going to focus on young people.

Just read your TransSanity article. I've written several. with that title or subtitle dealing with social trans that can only be called transanity. We care about every individual who identifies as transgender. But We're talking about social trends which we have to identify as trans sanity.

Susan says, thank you for your curt and scripture-based article on this. I am a transgendered person. I struggled all my life. I turned from God and did what I knew was wrong many years ago. I was born a male.

and now live as female for the last fifteen years. God started calling me back a couple of years ago. I rededicated my life to following Jesus and living for Him. And what he can do for a lost person. I can't change the things I've done to myself.

and ones that loved me. God showed me that I should not promote or be in that community because of the insanity of thinking. God forgiving me for taking my life in my hands was easy. It has always been forgiving myself that has been hard. I'm still a work in progress.

I spend time with my Lord and Saviour every day. My past is not mine any more. My future is in God's hands. And again, thank you for the article. I get tired of articles in the news promoting.

The lifestyle. Wow. How poignant. And obviously, quote, being a work in progress.

So Lord, this individual that you know You know from birth. You know, if this individual has done to himself, herself in your sight. This individual known as Susan today makes Susan completely whole. to serve you with fullness in a way that would bring great blessing as well as joy to your heart. We prayed in Jesus' name.

Amen. It's time to change. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Hey, friends, if we're going to see moral, cultural, spiritual revolution, we've got to deal with the younger generation. We've got to deal with imparting the values of the older generation based on scripture to the younger generation. And where the values of the older generation have been misplaced, we've got to do our best to correct them. And where we have passed on a superficial faith to the younger generation, we've got to do our best to address that.

As well. and where we have set bad examples we need to repent of the bad examples that we have set. Yeah, no rocket science there, that's evident. And if we are going to see change come, young people, the younger generation, they have to experience God for themselves. They have to experience God for themselves.

It can't be grandpa's stories and grandma's stories. I'm a grandpa, got four grandkids. They have to experience God in their own lives. He has to be real to them. Otherwise, they'll just have a form.

Otherwise, they'll just have something that becomes an empty tradition. Look at what happens to Israel. Look at what happens to the people of Israel when As a people, as a nation, they did not experience God from generation to generation. What happened? We see what happened.

For example, Joshua, the 24th chapter, that the children of Israel served the Lord as long as Joshua was alive and the elders were alive who had experienced God for themselves. They had seen God's mighty victory over the forces of darkness in Egypt. They had seen God's mighty victory in the Exodus and the conquest of Canaan. As long as any of those elders were still alive, some who had been little children when these things were happening, some had been young men when they were happening. As long as they had these memories and these realities, they could lead the nation in the right generation.

But when they were gone, there was no one to do it.

So every generation must encounter God for itself. The older generation imparts the values, the truths, the realities, the stories, the testimony, sets the example. And then And then does its best to introduce that next generation to the Lord for itself, so that generation can now experience God. And for whatever reason, for any number of causes, even the narcissistic nature of our society as a whole, and young people raised with more entertainment options than any other generation in history, and all the distractions of the internet and texting and cell phones and issues that we didn't have to deal with growing up, and then many of us not transmitting a vibrant faith to the next generation, or ourselves participating in the narcissistic, superficial generation around us, the culture around us, we have really found ourselves in a difficult position now with many young people leaving. The church Of course, they're never rightly plugged in, not so much because of Well, some hostility to God, but others disinterest.

So Looking at Sean McDowell posted on stream.org, we've all heard the grim news, church attendance is declining across denominations and young people are disengaging from the church. The largest hemorrhaging is in the liberal churches. the so-called mainline denominations. The further people go from the gospel, the more these churches are hemorrhaging. And the churches that most faithfully hold to the preaching of Scripture and believe in the life and power of the Spirit.

they are either growing or not hemorrhaging the same way.

So Sean writes, in an effort to address this problem, the team at Fuller Youth Institute has released a new book, Growing Young, Six Essential Strategies to Help Young People Discover and Love Your Church.

So it's by Kara Powell, Jake Mulder, and Brad Griffin. He said what makes Growing Young unique is that it's based upon an in-depth study of scholars, national ministry leaders, and youth ministry experts, as well as research and visits to 363 diverse congregations who have effective ministries to young people. Like their previous book, Sticky Faith, this book is based on careful research and analysis. There are a few things I particularly appreciate about growing young. First, the authors recognize that there is hope for the church today.

All is not lost. Their congregations truly engaging and equipping the next generation. Second, young people should not be an add-on to the church, but the heart of the church. When this is done right, it brings a true vibrancy to the entire congregation. As the authors observed, the good news is that when we bridge generation gaps, everyone grows young.

And third, At the end of each chapter, there are practical steps for church leaders and volunteers to take to help their church grow young. This is a book of research stories. And Application. Andy Stanley, one of the most influential pastors in America. He's been very gracious to dialogue with me when I've had questions for him or challenges about certain things he said or preached.

He's been very candid. In interacting with me, and in the points he's reinforced, has reinforced biblical. orthodoxy. I'm not a spokesman. I've never listened to a full one of his messages or read one of his books in full, maybe to my own loss.

But he's one of the most influential pastors in America with maybe the largest megachurch in the nation. I think he may have surpassed Joel Osteen's congregation in terms of growth and numbers. And so, like him or not, agree with him or not, Andy Stanley basically says he wants his service to appeal to a 15-year-old. If I'm not stating it exactly right, the spirit of it is right. That he wants his service to appeal to a 15-year-old.

He he wants kids to be eager to show up to church. and they can't wait to get there and worship God and hear the message. And he's convinced if they are being drawn in and they are being ministered to that the whole church will be healthy. That you'll have a vibrant program for married couples, and you'll have vibrant programs for the elderly, and you'll have vibrant programs for all manner of different people.

Now, that's his philosophy. Again, I'm not his spokesman, anything but I'm not his representative, I'm not defending it. But I'm simply saying, isn't it interesting? that in his mind, that's a priority. And he tells the story.

The one part of one of his messages that I did listen to. And by the way, it's not that I'm so arrogant to think I don't need to listen to messages. I virtually never listen to whole sermons. I read stuff. I read lots and lots and lots of stuff.

I need to read a lot faster and digest a lot more. And there's so many authors out there worthy of reading and so many books worthy of reading that I just have to choose what I read and don't read.

So it's not like, well, I never listen to one of them but sermons as if there's some arrogant statement in that. No, I don't mean that at all. But he was talking about, say, if you're growing up. And you wouldn't think of a punishment where your parents say, well, you're not going to church tomorrow. You're grounded.

Your average kids like I and sleep in? You kidding me? Go ahead and ground me. No, they don't want to be grounded where they can't go out with their friends over the weekend. or ground it where their curfew is they have to be home earlier in the night.

That they don't want that. But grounded, you gotta stay home from church on Sunday. You know? What kind of punishment is that? And yet.

And yet, What is really, really interesting is that Andy Stanley says that his kids growing up. That'd be the worst thing. They don't want to miss the youth service. They don't want to miss being with the other kids. Not just to hang out with the kids.

but to connect with God and to hear the word. That was his perspective.

Well, that would be wonderful.

So if there is a we're not talking about We're not talking about substituting A basketball game. for the sermon. We're not talking about substituting a movie for the Bible study. We're not talking about substituting A pizza party. for the worship.

We're talking about having a service. We're rather than just saying, oh yeah, we got some young people. Yeah, the young no, no, no. What about all the kids of all the families growing up? What about all the three, four, five-year-old kids that are growing up that are soon going to be exposed to the most ungodly stuff?

Any generation has been exposed to. What about the 15, 16 years old kids that are under incredible peer pressure these days? And bombarded by a media and social media the likes of which no generation has ever had to deal with. What about? them.

Well, they don't have money to give. They're not like leadership of the congregation. I understand that. But what about saying, hey, we want them to really know God and really encounter God and really learn from God and really grow in God? Because after all, they are the next generation.

And they are the ones that right now, in many, many ways, are more liberal. And worldly than their parents, which would point to the parents not raising them in the fear and admonition of the Lord, the beauty of the Lord, and intimacy with God, and not pointing a finger. All of us that have parented, don't point fingers at others because we know if our kids come out well, thank God. And if we struggle, you know, and and they go through a hard time. Hey, Everybody chooses for themselves ultimately.

So last thing I'm just sitting here is like I'm the expert. I'm the expert, and everybody else is. No, no, no. I'm saying, let's face the facts together. Let us.

take inventory together. Let's determine together. That we can see real change come and that it must come. And let's make pouring into young people an important priority. I've had the joy.

of leading ministry schools for many, many, many years now.

So on a regular basis, I'm pouring into kids only on a weekly basis, as young as 18, fresh out of high school, and many others 20, 23 years old. I have the joy of doing that all the time. And not only does it give life, it brings life. We'll be right back. New time.

Shake the new sign. Change the world. Change the world. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Yeah, I agree, Howard, from a practical standpoint, if young people aren't drawn to the church, the churches will literally die. Yeah, you die out.

And that's what happens in societies when you don't have a younger generation coming up behind it. The society dies out. 866-34-TRUTH.

So we must have renewal. We must have renewal among young people. I'm constantly around young people on fire who love the Lord. I have friends who lead prayer movements, and they have thousands and thousands of young people completely sold out to the Lord, living for Jesus with passion.

So God is moving. God is moving. But let us be realistic about the real needs. All right, we go to Central Texas. Jerichea, welcome to the line of fire.

Yes, hello, uh, Doctor Brown. Hello? Dr. Brown, can you hear me? Yes, I can.

Yes, how you doing, sir? I just wanted to thank you for your ministry. And I pray that God would bless you tremendously. And I have really been impacted by some of the things you've been saying online. Um and I just wanted to say uh Buruka Bashima Donai Um This is he who comes in the name of the Lord.

Yes, thank you, sir, and thank you for the good word. And I've had a problem, sir. I'm a young believer. I'm twenty five. I had a similar, very similar background to you.

before I came to the Lord, um And, you know, I got exposed to the word of faith movement that brought me into the faith. And I went from that to. you know this this really radical grace message that's been preached in the last five years and it really impacted my life, but but also at the same time, you know through personal study of the scripture, I have come to realize that a lot of what the traditional church has done. is completely unbiblical like the American evangelical holidays. They're not the biblical feast And them changing the day of worship from Satur from Shabbat to Sunday, which is unbiblical.

But my my my my problem was was mainly anti-nominism and it really, really really uh affected me spiritually and I didn't know where to go and And I just wanted to address the fact that a lot of people you know, me being twenty five years old and the fact that the youth are are leaving the church from my perspective. It's it's it's the fact that They're not fulfilling Romans chapter one, verse sixteen. You know, they're just not preaching the gospel. They're not preaching repentance. They're not preaching conviction of sin.

They're not preaching holiness. A lot of the churches I go to, these modern churches, they're really. uh like positive messages that that really are are unimpacted. I don't know if you wanted to say anything about that, sir. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I would definitely want to comment on it. First, let me encourage you. To Do your best to plant your feet in the middle of the stream where your whole focus is on growing in the Lord, knowing Jesus intimately, living a godly life before Him, and boldly sharing His Word. If if you swung to a hypergrace side, an extreme grace message. Let's say you swung to the left.

You'd also swing to the right. Where you put an overemphasis on, say, Old Testament law and things like that.

So I would say, while it's fine to look at those issues and look at the biblical holidays and things like that, I don't believe that God is grieved as millions and millions of people worship Jesus as Lord on a Sunday, especially Gentiles to whom God didn't give the Sabbath.

So I just encourage you not to make that your main focus, but I want to absolutely affirm the major point you're making, and that is that. Yeah. a soft spineless message. will not draw serious commitment. that a watered-down message will not draw Serious disciples, and that if you want serious people.

then you need to preach a serious message. And what's interesting from this book that I was noting. Cheryl McDowell gives 10 helpful findings. And he says: number three, churches. that successfully engage students don't water down the gospel or the cost of following Jesus.

So this whole mentality That if we soften the message, if we lower the standard, if we bypass the cross, If we don't talk about sacrifice and service, we'll draw people in. No, number one, God won't back that message. Number two, people who really want their lives to count and are looking for purpose are not going to be drawn to some watered-down compromise message. You don't have people. pushing and and and giving themselves to a sport that demands nothing of them.

You don't find them disciplining themselves. and and and exercising and controlling their weight and their diet and pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing to be part of something that requires no commitment. No, when there is a commitment, that's when they'll get serious about it. And certainly your generation, sir, has drawn up with has grown up with more extreme sports. more extreme expressions.

more radical activities. And just the run of the mill stuff seems not to appeal. To the younger generation as much. And hey, they just watch a video game and that's going to be as extreme as, or play a video game or watch some latest movie with their headset on, and that's going to be as dramatic as anything.

Now they're not going to just walk into some lame church that waters everything down. And it's all the same for everybody. Might as well stay home for that. And in fact, what's remarkable, sir, is that studies have been done for decades. that have indicated.

In the words of A German theologian Wolfhard Pannenberg to paraphrase that basically people looking for religion are looking for something. Other. In other words, if they just want something that's secular and worldly, They'll stay home, or they'll go to the bar, or they'll hang out with their friends and some other activity. The reason they're going to church is because they are looking to experience something other than just the secular world. And when we think the way to grow the church is just to make it more worldly and secular, not only is that walking in the flesh rather than the spirit so God will resist it, but it's also counterproductive in terms of that's not why they're coming.

So amen, sir. We must preach the full gospel. We must call for repentance. We must preach holiness all out of the love of God and the compassion of God and the life-changing grace of God. The message of holiness, the message of grace are just two sides of the same coin.

The message of faith and the message of repentance are two sides of the same coin. That is what. This generation must hear, and we who are older must lead the way in living it out and exemplifying it and showing what it really means. Thank you for weighing in. May God's grace be yours.

May you thrive in the Lord. I'm so glad He saved you out of the mess your life was in, just as He saved me out of the mess mine was in. Thank you. We come back. I'm going to speak with Liberty McCarter, and we're going to get some millennial perspectives as well.

We may be able to take some calls 866-34TRUTH. Be sure to go to thelineoffire.org and check out my latest article. It's not fair when a male weightlifter competes with women. Say what? Yeah, yeah, that happened and more.

And more. All in my latest article, not meant to incite hatred or anger towards anyone, but meant to say, come on. Come on, let's wake up to reality. This is cultural insanity. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr.

Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

So what is happening with young people in America? Is this really the ultimate me, me, me generation? Is it that young people are inheriting a shallow faith from their parents? Are we negatively caricaturing a whole generation and not recognizing the many fine qualities among them? In particular, what's happening among them spiritually?

This is Michael Brown. Welcome to the line of fire. I have been wanting to chat with a co-contributor to The Stream. I write three to five articles a week for The Stream, James Robinson's publication, stream.org. And I'll often look at the articles of Liberty McCarter.

She's a staff writer for The Stream, holds a bachelor's degree in journalism from Patrick Hendry College, previously worked in Washington, D.C. as a radio producer for WMAL's Weekend Talk Show. And at First Liberty Institute in Plano, Texas, she resides in Dallas-Fort Worth area with her husband and their beloved cat. Maybe we can get a cat update as well. But I've been, you know, let's chat.

I want to chat with Liberty. And I've seen her smiling face on the stream. We've never chatted before this moment.

So, Liberty, welcome to the line of fire. Thanks so much for having me.

Well, my my joy, everything good with your husband and the cat? Everything's going great. My cat is fat and happy, and so we're really content. All right. Well, good, good.

I just want to make sure there are no urgent updates to bring. And Liberty, I assume with the name Liberty that you were raised in a Christian home? I was, yes. All right, and then Patrick Henry College. Tell me a little bit about that school.

Well, Patrick Henry College is a pretty small private college. It was founded in 2000, and it's in Northern Virginia near Washington, D.C. And there are a lot of homeschoolers that attend. It used to kind of be jokingly referred to as the home school college, but a lot more diverse group of students attend there now. And their main thing is that it is a Christian college, and they have a dedication to a class called Liberal Arts.

Curriculum. And so the thing that I really appreciate most about my education there is that they don't just Tell you what to think, they teach you how to think. And you see a lot of people coming out of PhD with. kind of even diverse political views, but they're all very thoughtful, and I think that that says a lot. And Liberty, do you know roughly the student body there, the size of the school now?

It's 350 to 400, so pretty small. Right.

So, yeah, I mean, to me, that's wonderful, though, in terms of the atmosphere there and the real ability to create a certain environment. And then, obviously, you've got to have a lot of funding to make that happen. Because it can't just run on tuition. And so it's a great vision, but it's part of the larger counterculture vision. And that's why I wanted to ask about it.

So how old are you now, Liberty? I am 23 years old. 23. Wow, so you've done a lot already for 23. That's a pretty long bio there.

At least I could say you have seven kids though by now.

So that's we just start start with the cat for the moment. But just in one minute before we get to our first break, do you think that that my generation is sometimes guilty of negatively caricaturing your generation. I think that yes, I think that is true. I see a lot of good in my millennial generation. There are obviously some flaws, and I think part of it has to do with the way we were raised.

And then there are definitely just some inherent flaws with every generation. But I do see a lot of potential, and I think that if some you know, conservative and Christian millennials really take the lead, I think we could take the country in really good places in the future. All right, so I want to hear more of this hopeful side and get a great perspective from a young woman who loves the Lord. And loves the older generation, does not have a chip on her shoulder, but could give us some insight into some of the untapped potential of the new generation. And we'll talk about some other things: Beauty and the Beast, and some other.

Liberty's got an interesting perspective on that as well.

So, all that and more. We come back with Liberty Ricardo. You can read her writings on the stream at stream.org. Shake the It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. So in the first half hour of this hour, I was giving a few quotes from Sean McDowell's article on a new book, Growing Young, Six Essential Strategies to Help Young People Discover and Love Your Church. And I mentioned, I mentioned that Point three of the ten helpful findings that he had were churches that successfully engage students don't water down the gospel or the cost of following Jesus. I have friends involved in international youth ministry who say the younger generation is underchallenged.

I'm joined with Liberty McCarter, who writes for the stream, stream.org. Liberty, what do you make of that statement that your generation is underchallenged? I think that's exactly right. And I read the review of that book, Growing Young Too, and it looks like it just has so much truth in it. I was raised And an evangelical church, and I had a great Christian family, but you know, I was in the youth group culture, and I feel like um in order to try to keep young people in.

They tried to make Christianity cool a lot of the times or like this club or subculture instead of just giving teenagers What they really needed, the fundamentals of faith, knowing how apologetics and how to defend their faith and what the cost actually is. When you just try to make Christianity seem fun and cool, for teenagers they get out into the real world and then they don't actually know how to defend their faith and a lot of them don't even really know. what they believe.

So I I think that's definitely a problem. Yeah, and and look, for me as as a teenager, a heavy drug user, I can tell you that getting high and going to a rock concert was more exciting than a pizza party where the youth leader was a clown. You know, the church is not going to do the world better than the world does the world. What we need to do is unapologetically be who we are, obviously with wisdom and cultural sensitivity. But if you were to, in your view, again, you're one person, but you're exposed to others, you interact with other young people, you have your finger on the pulse of what's happening as much as you can.

Tell me, in your view, some of the most outstanding qualities of the millennial generation. Yeah. Well, I think that one of the biggest things is that millennials are really compassionate. You know, a lot of people criticize millennials for protesting, and I think that sometimes that Those protests might be misdirected, but the good thing is that millennials really do care about other people. They're good at empathy, walking in other people's shoes, wanting to improve conditions for the marginalized.

And then they're very cause-oriented because of that reason.

So millennials are often characterized as lazy because they think they have trouble finding jobs right out of college. But a lot of millennials, when you look at statistics, are actually workaholics and they're working very hard, but they just want to work for a cause that Means something to them. And I think another benefit and an opportunity is that millennials are very spiritual. Yes. They are rejecting organized religion in unprecedented numbers.

But I've read articles recently from millennials, and I know this just from my own friends. They don't really identify as a Christian anymore. Maybe they never did, but they're still spiritual and they're thoughtful. And they know that there's something more. And I think that's why so many are cause-oriented.

So there's a real opportunity there. for Christian millennials and Christians in general. to show them the way, show them what that spiritual fulfillment really is. All right, so let's look at something where it would seem the younger generation is so wrong in embracing the goals of LGBT activism and not having a biblical mindset on this, a biblical understanding of marriage, family, gender distinctions, etc. Put the positive spin on it.

In other words, why might they be so drawn to stand with those that identify as LGBT?

Well, I think one is what I mentioned just a second ago, that millennials are very good at empathy. They don't want to see people marginalized.

So, if they see someone, whether it's a refugee or a gay person that's been bullied, they have compassion, and I think that's a good thing. But also just Because of the way our culture has gone in recent decades, you've seen a rise in individualism, and this is especially true for millennials. We were taught growing up, you can be whatever you want, you can do whatever you want, you know, you do you kind of thing. And so you see that individualism, and they were never really taught. Why not?

If somebody wants to be transgender or if they want to be gay, they don't really have a reason, a good reason, why that's not a healthy choice. Yeah, so there are different sides to it. In other words, it's not just, well, we're in rebellion and we're casting off Scripture. For some, it is, but for others, it is that empathy. Billy's a nice kid.

Billy gets ostracized at school and the other boys pick on him. Billy's one of the nicest kids I know. Why can't Billy marry Bobby?

So there's the micro empathy and lack of understanding of the macro meaning of marriage and family, and then so many conversations. come from broken homes. Haven't been raised in that healthy environment.

So that's going to contribute towards it as well. And with the individualism, how much do you think that the uniqueness of social media plays into that. In other words, there was no such thing as a selfie before recently. Not that people couldn't take a picture of themselves, but the phenomenon of the selfie or the phenomenon of just posting what I just ate and how I'm feeling. Does that tie into the individualism?

I think it does. And millennials like my generation kind of early twenties right now was really the first generation to grow up With that new technology, the internet, social media. And, um, You know, it is very self-focused. You can, anybody can have a platform, anybody can become a pendant. Anybody can get.

uh tons of likes on their statement, whether it's political or what they had for lunch. And so I think it really have kind of exasperated uh that uh individualism that's already common in our culture. But One interesting thing is that even millennials now are starting to recognize that, that obsession with social media and technology as we were growing up. was unhealthy because now a lot of millennials aren't really able to form healthy human relationships, whether it's just dating and friendships. And that's something that people are starting to see and even talk about online and in different forums.

They're saying we don't know how to really interact with people and form real relationships because we've been so isolated, even though we felt connected. Mm. Yeah, so the discussions have to help happen. At a certain point, things fail. I grew up again in the 60s, the whole counterculture revolution.

I'm 62 now. And There was this whole push that hippies were going to have a better way of life and gonna live communally and drop out of the madness of the world. And I once saw a documentary about the 60s, and this anthropologist said, you know, if it could have been done, it would have been done. In other words, it just didn't work for everyone to withdraw from life and everyone's going to live on a commune with sharing everything.

Some are going to do it, but it's just going to work for society. The same way when we break away from God's standards with marriage and family, we pay the price. And look, I got a computer in 1985. That was my first computer.

So I was 30 then.

So I've had it in that sense a little over half my life. But as things are now wired and so on, I've found it harder to just focus without distraction. You know, if you're just reading a book versus looking at something online, you have to focus a certain way.

So your generation just grew up with that's the norm, that's the reality. Even as you're texting on your phone, it's filling in the words for you and so on.

So it's interesting to see that people recognize something's broken down. I've talked to marriage counselors dealing with kids.

Well, I should say young adults in their 20s who are married that have sexless relationships because of being raised on pornography and promiscuity. And they can't have a normal, healthy relationship.

So these things don't work long term. And what you're seeing is. Is something that tells us we can reach out.

So speak to us. How do we reach out effectively to this generation raised in a unique setting like never before? If you were talking to a pastor, a Christian leader, what would be some of the first things you'd want that person to understand?

Well, I would just say that, you know, Right off the bat, the most important thing is just being true to Scripture and what the Bible says, not watering it down. It doesn't matter what generation you're talking to. Even kids are smart. And people need to know the complete truth of what they're going to believe. And so I think people really need to focus.

The church needs to focus on strengthening those beliefs for people who already are believers. That way we can learn to articulate. Because millennials have questions, and a lot of them are open-minded, they're compassionate.

So if you approach them and just say, hey, you know, this is what I believe, that's what you believe, let's talk about it and kind of that. you know, your view versus my view saying that is millennial language. And then you'll know how to actually articulate what the gospel says. I think you can start to show millennials That one, that spiritual hole that they have, that relational hole, can be filled by Jesus Christ. And two, Christianity truly is compassionate.

Obviously, the Bible says that people are always going to hate Christians, but I do think the church can do a better job just even in our American culture, of really showing the love and the compassion that Christ taught. And I think sometimes we're so focused on what we're against. And I know a lot of people have said this, but millennials really they want to see uh the church in action. And I think they're open and I think if they can really see that love that we're supposed to be known for, but still the truth that we have to be committed to, I think that could open some doors. Yeah, amen to every one of those things, Liberty.

And sometimes just a pastor leader. Or someone from a different culture, different generation just needs to know: hey, when you say this, we hear this.

So, is there another way you can get the same message across, but in a way that we would hear it? Because the way you say it, We're hearing something very differently. And the way you're doing it, not connecting. Beauty and the Beast, some interesting insights we come back. God of light, hear our cry, send the fire.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Hi.

Thanks so much for joining us as I'm speaking with Liberty McCarter, 23 years old, a regular contributor to the stream, stream.org, talking about millennials and different perspectives. And again, one thing she's urging pastors, leaders, don't water down the gospel. Don't water down. the gospel. Yeah, because a watered-down message.

Number one, it's not going to change anyone's life. Number two, young people are going to see through it. Number three, they want to be challenged. Liberty, I wrote about the Beauty and the Beast movie, not because it was a big issue to me, but because one of the actors and producer made statements that became very volatile. There's going to be an exclusively gay moment.

Same-sex couples are going to have a real surprise.

So I said, all right, if Christian parents are offended by this, I understand that for good reason. We didn't start this argument. But you raised a very, very interesting perspective. Perspective, which is, in your article, let's be honest: Disney has been sexualizing characters. for a long time.

Talk to us about that. Yeah, well, you know, I think that obviously traditional Disney with heterosexual romances is different than a gay romance. But my view is that Disney is a secular organization, a secular company, and so they're going to push what's popular in secular culture. And now that LGBT Pride is at the front of secular culture and it's very popular, then that's going to they're going to start reflecting that. And they've actually been sexualizing characters for a long time because you can just look at the traditional Disney princesses.

And yes, they were in heterosexual romances, but they were very young. Most of the Disney princesses are actually like only 15 or 16, but they look very sexual from their cartoons to their toy products that little girls are playing with.

So I I think that parents, you know, not that Disney princesses are evil or they should be forbidden, but parents should be careful, you know, when your little girl is watching that, what kind of image is she getting about her body or sexuality or romance in her mind when she's five years old. Watching these, and then you know, that's why I'm not surprised that there was. a small gay, you know, Theme with Beauty and the Beast, which actually wasn't even that big, but because this is just what Disney does. They're secular, they like to sexualize things, unfortunately. And so it just.

it kind of is to be expected. Yeah, it's interesting. Many, many years ago. With children's cartoons, I noticed as I got older that there were adult jokes that were thrown in. It was kind of commonly done.

I'm talking about way, way back when things might have seemed more innocent. Maybe you had this ridiculous violence that would take place in them, but it was all slapstick kind of thing. But there would be these adult jokes embedded in it. And you'll still have that in some family movie. You realize you've got your five-year-old sitting there, and you think, wait a second, this is a G-rated movie, but there was a subtle little thing thrown in there.

That's one thing. It's almost just, ha ha, did you catch that? But it reminds us that there's always a message behind the message. It's never just, you know, you've got sophisticated screenwriters and producers, and they've often got an ideology that they're conveying. And it's not that predators all prey on our children, as much as they have a message they want to get out.

And Hollywood's constantly getting that message out. Yeah, and and that's very true. And, you know, um Yeah. On a I saw this Beauty and the Beast over the weekend, so for parents who haven't seen it, I think Um the whole gay moment that the director was talking about kind of amounts to what you were just saying, like some of the adult themed jokes. In older movies.

I mean, if you're looking for it, then you can see where they're talking about, but there's no gay kiss or I love you or anything that I might be obvious even to a little kid. Um But you know, one thing that I would like to see just uh if when we're talking about on a purely practical level from Disney or other children's entertainment companies is don't focus on romance and sexuality so much anyway. That's kids don't need to think that's what defines them from the time that they're very young. And also parents should be the ones to talk about those things with their kids and impart their own beliefs about those things whenever they feel like their kid is ready. Yeah, wise words there.

And again, things that folks may not just focus on. All right, we've got to be quick on this. But another article on the stream just came out a few days ago where you say that the Atlantic.

So, secular publication, The Atlantic acknowledges that secularism is hurting America. The church should take note. Give us a quick summary of that. Right, so the Atlantic cited some research that people both on the left and the right are leaving church, leaving organized religion. And while many people thought a secular society would be this enlightened thing, it's actually caused both sides to go more extreme and be more divisive when it comes to politics.

So I think this is a really great opportunity. I mean, it's obvious to me that this would happen, but I think this is a good opportunity for the church to say, you know, while the rest of the secular world, both on the left and the right, is getting more and more divisive, more vicious toward each other because they don't have the love of Christ influencing them, this is where the church can shine a light and show what, you know, civilized discourse, what love for a neighbor, whether or not you agree, this is where we can really shine and show that example. Yeah, absolutely. What we've got to do is keep the perspective that Liberty is bringing to us is to be redemptive. Look at what's happening in the culture, and rather than just throw your hands up, be redemptive.

And rather than just seeing what's wrong with the generation, be redemptive. See what's right, see what can be built on.

So, in point of fact, we must reach the younger generation. And many love the Lord and are deeply committed, and many would make Ideal disciples, if we can rightly reach out to them and connect to them.

So, Liberty, keep doing what you're doing, keep raising your voice, keep setting a great example, and the joining of the generations-that's what's needed. Change America.

So my last question, a minute or less. Are you pessimistic daily as you look around your generation and society or do you have some kind of optimism?

Well, I do get discouraged sometimes, and look, especially this past year, you know, just so many things have been happening. But I'm I am optimistic. I like I said, I'm optimistic about my generation and I think that Even though a lot of people are leaving the church, I think you're starting to see a lot of people, including my peers. say, hey, we need to get back to the basics. We need to strengthen our faith, and we need to really get back to what our faith is all about.

Politics isn't going to save us. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be involved in culture. But I I'm really starting to see that and so I think As we millennials and others strengthen our own faith, and as we start raising families and imparting that Strong faith down to them. I think that in a couple generations we can see a turnaround. Hey, I am, I live with an absolute hope and confidence that we're going to see great turnaround.

And we've got to, for your sake, for the sake of your kids as well, we'll keep working together until we see the change come. God bless you, Liberty. Great. Thanks so much. All right.

So friends, you can read what Liberty's Written and read my articles on the stream, stream.org. A great place to go. You'll get a wide range of godly perspectives. You'll get insights politically, economically, spiritually on what's happening in the culture.

So take advantage of the resources there. And of course, everything I write there, everything I write on other websites, all of our videos, they're all in one place, all in our digital library, our unique, one-of-a-kind digital library. Nothing like it online at thelineoffire.org. And it's waiting for you there. And if you're blessed by it, stand together and help us.

My bottom line today, don't throw out the young generation. They are the hope of America. We must reach them with the gospel. Game to the world.