More Debate Reflections; Luther's Anti-Semitism; and Jewish Torah Insights

from my debate with an Orthodox Jewish rabbi to Martin Luther's anti-Jewish writings, all coming your way on Thurly Jewish Thursday. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I am excited to be with you on the broadcast today. This is Michael Brown.

Welcome to Thoroughly Jewish. Thursday with your thoroughly Jewish host. We've got a lot of ground to cover. And as always, if you have a Jewish-related question, something regarding the Hebrew scriptures, something regarding Jewish tradition or Judaism, practices or beliefs, something regarding the modern state of Israel, something having to do with Jesus, Yeshua being the Messiah, give me a call. 866-348-7884 is the number to call for your Jewish-related questions today.

That's 866-348-447. for truth. A few of the things that we'll get into, we want to take you back into the debate from last week. We did a brief update, played a couple of clips for you the day after the debate with Rabbi Daniel Freitag last week. But we're going to give you some more clips from the debate, play some clips from folks that were there: Orthodox Jews, Messianic Jews, Christians from different backgrounds.

So we will play those for you. I'll be interacting with them, hopefully, giving you further insight. And someone sent me a link from R. C. Sproll's ministry, Lingonier Ministries.

There was a panel discussion, and a question was asked about Martin Luther. Were his writings anti-Semitic? And I want to interact with those. I'll read some of those quotes to you rather than play those for you. I want to interact with that as well later in the broadcast.

We're going to open up the scriptures. And we're going to look at a passage, a well-known passage in the Hebrew Bible, which is a... Messianic prophecy, and I want to give you insight into why it's translated in so many different ways, and that will be specifically. Genesis chapter 49, verse 10.

So we'll be getting into all of that on the broadcast today. The weekly portion being currently read in the synagogues is from Leviticus chapter 1, 1:1 to 5, 26, which are fundamental laws of sacrifice and offering. And it's a question to ask why does the Torah spend so much time talking about sacrifices and offerings. Why does it spend so much time talking about these things? Could it be?

Could it be? that this was a lesson God was communicating to Israel. Could it be? that this was something God was saying to Israel in terms of substitution. Substitution.

Substitution. What's interesting. What's interesting is that The Uh the Corresponding passage from the prophets being read in the synagogue, Isaiah 43, 21 to 44, 23. God says to his people there, You have not brought me your sheep offerings, your sheep for burnt offerings, nor honored me with your sacrifices. I have not burdened you with meal offerings, nor worried you about frankincense.

You have not brought me fragrant reed with money, nor sated me with the fat of your sacrifices. Instead, you've burdened me with your sins. You have wearied me with your iniquities. Hence, the tie-in with this portion from Leviticus chapter 1. And something that came out in the debate that was interesting.

God is not against sacrifices. God is not against sacrifices any more than he is against. uh any more than he is against Uh Sabbath observance or prayer. He is against hypocritical observance. And that's what he addressed.

among the prophets. That's what he addressed saying that there was a problem here and the problem was you are being hypocrites in your sacrifices, in your offerings, in your Sabbath observance. The issue was not the law. The issue was hypocrisy. All right, we'll be right back.

Change the world. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

You want to know why Jews don't believe in Jesus? It's not because we have something against the idea. It's because the concept That something has changed. between Jews and God. and that he has altered our covenant.

to be something other than it was, is appalling and offensive And fundamentally, Anti-Semitic. That was Rabbi Daniel Freitag. This is Michael Brown, and you are listening to The Line of Fire on Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. And The rabbi was arguing that this is a major reason in our debate last week that Jews don't believe in Jesus. And his whole argument, of course, was a straw man, that we say that someone died for you so that you no longer keep the law.

And here's how I responded. Let's grab clip number 11. This was my response to Rabbi Freitag after his presentation. When it was time for my rebuttal, this was my response. The question is, what does God want us to do to be righteous?

To believe in Him? and to obey him. Who said that changed? This whole polemic that Jesus tells you to stop keeping the commandments, the law was never given to the Gentiles. The law of Sina was never, Mount Sina was never given to the whole Gentile world.

That was never required. The first followers of Jesus, Yeshua, lived as Jews. Yeshua said it, Matthew 5, 17, don't think I came to abolish the law of the prophets. I didn't come to abolish, but to fulfill.

So all of his first followers were Jews who kept the commandments. And this, again, strikes me as utterly disingenuous. There are many people here, I'm sure, who are part of Messianic Jewish congregations. Why? Because as Jews, they say we're still Jews.

We still observe the Sabbath. We don't keep a lot of the rabbinic traditions because we see those as adding to the Torah. When God was very explicit, don't add. When you light the Sabbath candles and say, as God commanded us, he never commanded, show me in the Torah where he commanded. He never commanded that.

So many of the practices are not kept or they're kept differently, just as within different branches of Judaism, there are different expressions. But many Messianic Jews, that's how they live. They live as Jews. Many of them live in Israel. They're a Sabbath observant.

They serve the country. They observe the calendar of Israel. And here's what bothers me. When Messianic Jews seek to live as Jews, the Orthodox community and other rest of the Jewish community persecutes them and says you're being deceptive. You have no business doing this.

First, we're told we're supposed to keep the commandment as Jews, and then when Jews try to keep the commandment as followers of Jesus, we're called deceptive. Exactly, and that's part of the irony of all this. That when Messianic Jews say, yeah, we love the Lord and we love the law, we're not under the Sinai covenant in terms of its condemnation or in terms of something to make us righteous, but we love Shabbat, we love the biblical calendar, we observe the dietary laws, just part of our identity as Jews. But we have experienced forgiveness of sins through Jesus the Messiah, and we are transformed people.

Well, we're told you're being deceptive. Why? And just because the church cut itself off from its Jewish roots through history, Does it mean that we are required to continue to do that? Didn't Peter and Paul and the apostles live as Jews? Didn't Paul go out of his way in Acts 21 to say he's not telling Jews to forsake the customs?

It's the traditions that get in the way, human traditions that get in the way of the word of God that we oppose. An approach to God's Word that is not by the Spirit, we oppose that. We oppose adding to the commandments as if they're equally binding. We oppose living out the law as if we could somehow be righteous by our own works. We oppose all of that.

But but being a Jew who loves the law and following Jesus Yeshua at the same time Where's the conflict? There is none. Listen to, oh, let's see. Let's grab number six here. Here's an Orthodox Jewish man, excuse me, who was at the debate.

And this is what he had to say. He was interviewed by some of our team after the debate. This is what he had to say. I'm Jewish. I'm an Orthodox religious Jew.

So I was coming in with one side, if you will. I I really enjoyed. I learned a lot of new things. I thought they were very nice dialogue and everyone learned a lot. Interesting.

Interesting that he didn't come away hostile. Interesting that he didn't come away saying, you know, like this proselytizing or attacking me. Obviously, he's he's a civil guy and speaking in a civil way. But it's interesting that he heard our side presenting Jesus as the Messiah. and found it to be an interesting discussion.

Perhaps there'll be more openness in his heart and mind. I don't know where he stands, but perhaps there'll be more openness in his heart and mind. The possibility that Yeshua could be our Messiah, and that they're missing the first part of his. mission. And one more post-debate interview.

We'll be playing some other quotes from the debate for you, some more interaction. But let's grab clip number two. This is a Christian man from Ghana. Listen to what he had to say after the debate. Yeah, I thought it was a good debate.

I thought Rabbi Freitag, I think his debate was centered around making an emotional appeal to the Jews. He didn't really address the issues like, is Jesus the Messiah? And that's one of the questions that I wanted to ask him. Another interesting thing is he seemed to not be really interested in the Gentiles. He was really only concerned about the Jews, which was a little bit interesting because he was making a few statements, kind of condemning anti-Semitism.

But then the way he was talking was making it seem like he didn't really care about Gentiles, and so he didn't worry if we were in error. He really cared about the Jews. But I thought it was a good debate, but he didn't really address the issues. Very interesting. Very interesting to hear that.

Of course he was there for Jewish people. As a rabbi, that would be his focus. As a rabbi, his focus was not getting Gentiles to stop believing in Jesus. As a rabbi, his focus was not helping some Gentile living in Yeah. In New Guinea.

To help that person find the knowledge of the true God, his focus was responsibility to fellow Jews. And his issue was, as a Jew, He did not want Jews to turn away from the Torah and the traditions and put their faith in Jesus. And that was his perspective. And he said right from the start, he was uncomfortable being there because he Felt that he would be speaking against Christians and Christianity. He didn't want to do that because he loves Christians and so on and respects their faith.

Of course, If you say Jesus is not the Messiah. and that he didn't rise from the dead, then obviously you're saying that Christians are believing a complete myth.

So you can't have it both ways. But I understand the tension he was dealing with and why he was there. But it's interesting. One fellow contacted me and said his brother is an ultra-Orthodox Jew. And when I made the point that if in fact the rabbis are right and Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah, then you have to throw out the entire New Testament.

then you have to say that everything that 2 plus uh billion people believe around the world. is false. is based on deception. is based on either outright lies or people being deceived about what they believe. But if Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah, then throughout the New Testament, throughout the faith of more than 2 billion professing Christians worldwide, All right.

And this ultra-Orthodox rabbi was jarred by that. He was actually jarred by that. And and You know, if that's the case, then why aren't they warning the whole world and maybe there's more to this? I found that very interesting and hear this Christian brother from Ghana saying the rabbi didn't seem interested in the rest of the world, Gentile world. That's a true observation.

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It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Folks go with followings on this Thoroughly Jewish Thursday, 866-3487.

We'll start in DC with Mark. Welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Doctor Brown. How are you? Doing well, thank you.

Sir, I had a question. I've got a friend that was a Jew that He said he was challenged one time as a Jewish person. He's a great guy. He's been a friend for almost 20 years. He said that in the back of the uh the Jewish Talmud somewhere in the latter half of it, It referenced Jesus Christ as the illegitimate son of Mary.

that he was referred to as Tanfera. And that um He was he practiced magical powers in Egypt and or learned magical powers in Egypt and that practiced them in Palestine, led an insurrection. and crucified the uh I think was the day prior to the Passover. I was blown away by this. I don't know anything at all about the about the Jewish Talmud.

And I wanted to ask you about that. Is this true? Does the Jewish Talmud actually say these things? Yeah, first thing to understand, the Talmud is a series of many, many, many volumes. And if you have it on a shelf, you'll normally have it in a set of 20 volumes.

And it's got almost every imaginable Position discussed in there, almost every imaginable subject comes up. But yes, along the way, And this is in several different places in the Talmud. There are disparaging references to Jesus.

Some of this seems to be in response to church opposition and church hostility towards Jewish people. But yes, there are some ugly statements. He's referred to as the son of Panthera. Word being that Mary, Miriam, had an affair with a Roman soldier. And the best guess on that, Mark.

Is that the Greek word used for virgin Parthenos? That rather than saying he was the son of Parthenos, he was the son of Panthera. this Roman soldier.

So some think that's where that myth came from. And yeah, there's another charge that he went into Egypt and he learned magical arts there and he came back and then deceived many in Israel. Another would say that he's burning in hell.

Sometimes he's not referred to directly. He's referred to by another name, like Balaam would then represent Jesus. And then some scholars say, well, these really weren't references to Jesus of Nazareth. But there are other texts mention him, mention some of his disciples, mention him being crucified on the day before the Passover. Yes, so there are those Talmudic traditions.

And then Mark, over the centuries, as... uh anti-Semitism developed and got uglier and uglier in the church and Jews were actually killed if they would not be baptized. They were given a choice of baptism or death. Then the literature got uh even uglier. And Martin Luther was exposed to some of this later in life, and that's part of what turned him into such an ugly, horrific...

To have such an ugly, horrific stance against the Jews. Of course, there's no excuse. What he did was murderous and ugly and terrible and ultimately used by Adolf Hitler. But he actually had the misapprehension that Jews cursed Christians in their synagogues every Sabbath, etc. But he did see some of these things.

And again, what's in the Talmud about Jesus is ugly and also inexcusable.

Some of it, unfortunately, was a polemic against the Christian attack on Jews and the demonizing of Jews. But yes, those things are. Are in the Talmud, among many, many others. And you have to understand, the Talmud will have a lengthy discussion back and forth, and Mark said this, and Mike said this, and Joe said this, and Sam said this, and they'll just have all these quotes, and it's not even telling you who's right or who's wrong. throwing them out.

So it's not like the Talmud teaches that. Your average religious Jew studying it doesn't even notice those passages. But yes, those things are there.

So you had a second question real quick. No, that was it, sir. You answered them all. Thanks a bunch for your time, and God bless you and your ministry. Thank you, sir.

God bless. 866-348-7884. Let's go to Anderson in Leesburg, Virginia. Welcome to the line of fire. Oh, thank you.

My Jewish question is, was Jesus actually Jewish? Because his maternal cousin John the Baptist was a Levite.

So was Jewish was uh Jesus a Levite? Because we look at the genealogies in Matthew and Luke. They go back to his father, to Joseph, who actually wasn't his father, wasn't his genealogical father or biological father, right?

Well, the first thing is John the Immerser was also Jewish. You could Jewish referred to at that point all the all the people of Israel. In other words, the twelve tribes of Israel are considered Jews.

So, do you mean was he of the tribe of Judah? Is your specific question? Not was he Jewish? Because to be Jewish would simply be Right, so was he a Levite? No, the New Testament witness is consistent.

That he is of the physical seed of David, in which case we'd have to understand that his mother Miriam. was um was of the line of David and of the tribe of Judah. And many read Luke's Gospel as actually being. Of Mary Miriam.

So it was, as supposed, the son of so-and-so, but actually. the son of, and then it goes to Miriam's father. But there are other traditions that have been preserved that say that Miriam Mary was actually of the tribe of Judah and herself. And a descendant of David herself.

So, yes, it's a fair question to ask for the very reasons that you ask it, sir. But from everything that we understand, he was physically of the seed of David. He needed to be. to fulfill messianic prophecy, but he was also greater than David, hence divine. on the divine side greater than David, on the human side, a descendant of David.

But either way, Jewish. Because again, to be Jewish did not just mean from the tribe of Judah. All right, did not simply mean from the tribe of Judah. It simply meant any of the people of Israel were considered Jews. It's a larger term just as it is today.

For me to be Jewish, I don't know what tribe I descended from. It's the tribe of Benjamin. If I was Levite, there would have been some connection, probably preserved in family name, like Cohen or Levi or something else, family tradition. We have no such indication of that. From among the tribe of Judah.

most likely statistically, but don't know. It could be from one of the other tribes that then merged in with the larger people of Israel and people of Judah after being exiled or. Came south to be part of the people of Judah.

So we're all. Jews if we're descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in that respect whether we're from the tribe of Levi, from the tribe of Judah. Thank you, sir, for your question. All right, friends, I'm going to take questions. for ninety more minutes.

That's right. And I'm going to be playing more debate clips. and I'm going to be getting into Martin Luther's anti-Semitism. And we're going to open up Genesis 49, 10. To keep listening, just in case you lose me on your local station, just go to thelineofire.org, click on listen live to keep listening.

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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I actually was born messianic.

So um This is all I know, and that doesn't mean that I'm just believing it because that's what I was taught, but I. I have a lot of family members who are not messianic and are just traditionally Jewish, but they're very secular.

So to hear it from a perspective of a rabbi who's not messianic, I just think it's so important to really shape your beliefs well and know why you believe what you believe instead of just because you were brought up that way. Yeah, this is one of the great things about a debate. And one of the things that I love so much is you get to present. both sides fairly. It's easy to live in a little bubble.

very easy to live in a little bubble. And in that little bubble All you do is reinforce what you believe and never get it challenged. How much can you grow doing that? How much can you learn? doing that.

Now I know some people are very fragile. And they're very confused and new, and you want to do your best just to build them up, build them up, build them up. But if you're on the side of truth, If you're confident that you're in the right, if you're confident that your position can withstand scrutiny, then you bring it out in the light. And you don't mind the challenge. In fact, you welcome it, because through that challenge, you'll get to demonstrate the truth of your position all the more.

And through that challenge, you'll be forced to study and grow and learn if you get hit with new challenges. And I decided, friends, many decades ago. when I was confronted with many objections to the inspiration of the Bible. many objections to my faith in Jesus as the Messiah of Israel. Many objections to all that was dear to me in the faith.

And I was encountering these both from talking to rabbis and counter-missionaries, as well as from my professors in college and grad school, some of whom were actually very hostile to religious faith. One, I believe his parents were Holocaust survivors. He was a Holocaust survivor and then turned hostile, became atheist, from Orthodox Jew to atheist. There are just lots of different folks I was around over the years, and I determined, okay. I know that Yeshua, that Jesus has radically, dramatically changed my life.

I know. That I have this incredible relationship with God, and it's undeniable so much of what He's done in my life at the same time. if what I believe is true and real, If what I believe is is from God, then it can withstand the scrutiny.

So bring it on. And it wasn't bring it on in the way where I'm going to close my eyes and just swing wildly. No, it was bring it on. Let me hear your objection. Let me think about your objection.

Let me look at your objection. Let me evaluate your objection. And if you're on the side of truth, I'm going to have to change my position. And if you're not, this is only going to reinforce my position. And that's what happened year after year after year, that my position was only reinforced.

I didn't need it to be reinforced, but the more I debated, the more it was reinforced. The more I studied with scholars and professors who didn't believe what I believed, and some of them were very friendly, some were hostile. But the more that happened, Then, then, in point of fact, the more the that I saw, hey, I'm on the side of truth here. I'm on the side of truth, and this is absolutely wonderful. And I can proclaim it boldly, and clearly, and boldly, and clearly.

So we continue to get the message out without fear. And I love to do debates. In fact, the better the opponent, the better the debate. Otherwise, it's so unfair. Otherwise, people think, well, that person was prepared, or you were a better debater.

No, no, no. Let's get someone just as qualified. This way, we can address the issues, and that the issues then speak. for themselves and friends, you've got nothing to fear. Jesus Yeshua.

is the Messiah of Israel. And if you're a Jewish person listening to me, Are you? willing to face the facts as they become clear to you. Humble yourself before God and say, God, give me the courage to follow you wherever your truth leads. Because sometimes it's costly.

It's wonderful, but it's costly to follow the Messiah. Right back with your phone calls. Oh God of burning, cleansing flame. Send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on this thoroughly Jewish Thursday.

This is Michael Brown. Welcome to the line of fire, 866-348-7807. Eight. Number to call, let us go to Powder Springs. I was heading there.

All right, let's try Washington DC. Charlie, welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Dr. Grav. Hello.

My question is about Hebrew theology and Near Eastern mythology.

So, just as a quick background, in N.T. Wright's book, The Resurrection of the Son of God, he's provided convincing reasons for why the idea of Jesus' resurrection could Have been made up based on different ways the gospel was offensive to the ideas of first-century Jews and the Gentile world, and ultimately, how bodily resurrection makes the best sense of all the data. the historical data.

So outside of our conviction that the Old Testament points to Jesus and that he represents Israel and embodies God, is there a similar conceptual argument that can be made for key features of Jewish theology being rooted in the authenticity of the Exodus events and not just being the product of ancient speculation or derivation from ancient Near Eastern fables? I'm looking specifically for information that indicates it couldn't have happened any other way. Yeah, so the argument that it couldn't have happened The the strongest issue would be The monotheism. of the the Hebrew scriptures. You may have things you can point to called monolatry, which is that this one God, Yahweh, is greater than all the other gods.

But it goes further than that. It says that these other gods are not really gods at all.

So let's just say, for example, you take Genesis chapter 1, all right?

Some scholars have pointed to what they call the Babylonian Genesis, and they try to argue that certain words and phrases found in Genesis 1 really reflect Babylonian imagery and things like that. But when you read Genesis 1, and you contrast it with the ancient Near Eastern creation stories. You know, and the gods get angry because you know there's l the younger gods are making too much noise and there's battles in the heavenlies and and you know you get heaven and earth because one one Goddess is chopped in half and you've got half is earth and half is heaven and You know, the more you read it, and then you read Genesis 1, there's this massive stark contrast, but that was the. the cultural million in which it was written. that you had all these other deities, that you had these competing powers.

For example, Yom, which means sea, was a Canaanite deity. It was a chaos god. And Baal was a fertility god, and various things like that. And when you see how all these gods are nothing. When you get to the transcendence of God, say in Isaiah 40 through 48, and as I said, it's transcendence of God even in Genesis 1.

It so stands out from its environment. The question is, where would one get that from? Even in Egypt. There was a pharaoh called Akhnaten who led a push for a certain monotheism that the sun god was the one true God. But then on a lesser level, the Pharaoh himself was considered to be a God.

And of course, it never took in the society. They continued in their polytheism.

So that's a big question as to where this concept of one God and one God only would have come from. Because there's nothing in that environment from which it could grow. And again, when you compare it... Compare that theology with the competing views, they're so radically different. The question of Sabbath observance.

Where did that come from? Where did we get the idea of a seven-day cycle? Because it's easy enough to get the idea of of the the month from the moon and the and the year from the rotation of the earth around the sun. But seven-day week some claim there is a Babylonian precedent for that, but I think that argument is weak. Nonetheless, it doesn't prove that it had to be from that encounter with God.

It just shows this is something that was developed among the people of Israel that was unique in the ancient world. But there's a Jewish argument, Charlie, that says. that because the claim was made that the whole nation heard God speak at Sinai, that that could not be manufactured subsequently, otherwise people would know it was a lie and a myth. That if you just talk about something in our own history and you make up something new and say the whole nation knew it, Obviously, they'll know that that wasn't the case, but I think there are many arguments against that, one of which is that to the extent people are disconnected from their traditions and in exile. You could theoretically introduce new traditions and new myths and, oh, we forgot these.

We didn't even know about these. But to me, the lofty monotheism of the Hebrew Bible. does stand out. You did have ancient law codes. And you can compare ancient Hebrew laws to the ancient surrounding law codes, and yes, there's a higher ethic.

in those law codes that are associated with the people of Israel. but not the point where you could say there's no possible explanation for this arising. Um So that's Go ahead. Yeah, I I mean, for example, I I read in uh John Oswald's book, The Bible Among Myths. He really points out the distinction between transcendence that's in the Bible versus continuity that's in just the pagan world.

I thought that was a pretty strong example. And, you know, when I think about it, I just don't think that the the Jews at the time could have gotten the idea outside of the direct revelation of God on Sinai and and the Exodus event. Yeah, Charlie, it's interesting you raised this question because last night I was proofreading. My manuscript for a book called Saving a Sick America. It's a prescription for moral and cultural reformation.

That's due out the end of September with Thomas Nelson Publishers. And as I was reviewing it, just proofreading it. as it's being final editing right now. I do have a one chapter where I'm dealing with the Bible. how it stands out and how remarkable it is and even the concept of human beings being created in the image of God and what that means.

Not some physical image, you know, where God must be, you know, six feet tall with a beard if he's a man, you know, not that, but to have his characteristics. And I and I have part of this chapter where I contrast Genesis 1. And even some scientists would say that first you have sound, then you have light. And just the way it's in Genesis, God said, let there be light. and then the things that happen subsequently.

And the question is, the more you look at the pagan background, The more you look at the cultural background, the more you say, where did they get this from? And one of the best things you can do is read the literature. And the book you mentioned is probably the best book for that John Oswald's book about. uh you know the bible among ancient myths john oswald and john walton have both written excellent stuff on that But To me, that's the best thing to do. Look at the background.

Look at the context. read them side by side and think how did one group of people come up with this? And then the prophetic literature and the transcendence of God and the prophetic literature, you think, where did you get this from? Because that's just not how people conceptualize the deity. And again, if part of the whole account of human creation and how we got heaven and earth and all this was fights among the gods.

And the younger gods being too noisy, and the older gods getting upset and going to war with each other. And you compare that to the biblical picture, it's just. Again, to me, no explanation except for divine inspiration. Right, right.

Well, thank you so much for that. I appreciate it. Yes, and great questions. And thanks for the research and reading you're doing. 86634TRUTH.

Let's go to Atlanta. Drew, welcome to the line of fire. That is good beyond. Um Yeah, hi, I was at the debate. I was the guy in the red shirt asking the question to the Rabbi which He ended up actually talking past each other.

Um basically what I wanted to ask That I'm that Recipe choose. Um don't really have the same level of tolerance. And accessible. Privilege. There's even like gay atheists.

Or Jews who completely deny the Torah. You're absolutely right. Yeah, and if a Jew And this of North Island's choice uh becoming They believe in Jesus, the entire community. turns on him like a pack of wolves. It's the case that You can be a Jubu, Jewish Buddhist, and that's okay.

You could be a Jewish atheist. You could be a Jewish gay activist. And while that's acceptable, I mean obviously people are going to differ with you. But saying and you could even be a Jew. who goes to church and identifies as a Christian.

Okay, that's bad, but the worst thing is when a Jew says, I'm still a Jew. I love the Torah. I just observe it now in the light of the coming of the Messiah and the new covenant. I'm part of a Messianic congregation. There's a lot more hostility.

Taywood, stay right there. I want to talk to you on the other side of the break. Obviously, the charge would be, well, we're being deceptive. Messianic users are being deceptive. And you have a messianic synagogue, and you see you have the Sabbath.

This is all just to proselytize. This is all a deception. But talk to Messianic Jews around the world. It's like, no, this is who we are. Why should we forsake this to follow the Jewish Messiah?

All right, we'll be right back with Drew from Atlanta. Shaking this out, change the world. Change the world. It's fire we want, for fire we please. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks friends for joining us on Thursday Jewish Thursday 866.

348-788-4 number to call.

So, Drew, your understanding, your experience, why is it that there is this level of hostility? from many in the Jewish community towards those who identify as Messianic Jews? Do they see them as imposters? Do they think the whole thing is just a deception to proselytize? What's your understanding?

Oh, I think in m my opinion, they see it as a as a threat, a much bigger threat. Than it ever could possibly be. The real threat is Jews going off as they're like, intermarrying. becoming atheists, that that happens very often. But yeah, I guess I I'm not sure what the original cost is.

I think there's an effort by anti missionaries to sow all sorts of paranoia into these communities. I want to just make a disclaimer that my question was not autobiographical, it was based on. People I've talked to. And the question I basically I had for you is Do you think there's an effort in like the Orthodox Jewish world or in the Jewish world to hide this fact? I talked to an Orthodox family and they didn't even believe me.

They're like, no, my community would never turn on us. Yeah, they love us.

So Do you I mean, do you think there's an effort? Like, even by the rabbi you ta talked to. You gotta be a little bit more. When there are things done like in years past. trying to deprogram people.

Uh I had friends of mine that many years back were kidnapped when they first came to faith in Jesus. Their parents actually had deprogrammers kidnap them. and bring them to meet with counter missionaries and rabbis. Is that the kind of thing they want publicized? No.

And to the extent... I have challenged counter-missionary friends. They have publicly said we repudiate that, we don't believe in that, we distance ourselves from that. And and for the most part, Jews who do believe in Jesus If you are ultra-Orthodox, they are secret believers. because they knew that no, the moment they come out publicly, they could lose everything.

The family will turn on them. Every connection, every social connection they have, everything that's of value to them of life outside of their faith in God would be stripped away. family would be gone. Let's say they had kids, the ability for those kids to get a good marriage and the community to be gone. making a living would be gone and there could even be physical threats and attacks.

And those that I know that are believers that have not totally come out of the community or secret believers. for those very reasons. Would the religious Jewish community like that to be known? I don't think so, but that's sadly a reality. I I think though one of the issues, Drew, initially When Messianic Jewish congregations were birthed, some were birthed with the sense, okay, we're Jews.

We love Jesus, but we're still Jews. And some didn't feel totally at home in a church setting, but others thought, look, we need to do a better job of reaching our people, so instead of being called pastor, we should be called rabbi, and so on. And I could see how the Jewish community thought it was being deceptive. In other words, if you're preaching Jesus, go ahead and preach Jesus. If you're preaching the cross, go ahead and preach the cross.

But don't take the imagery down and put up a Star of David instead or something else.

Okay?

However, However, Uh number one. Uh These people, these messianic leaders, over the years really proved themselves to be. True Jews who love their Jewish community, who are active in the good of Israel worldwide. and who are raising their kids as Jews who believe in Jesus the Messiah. And you can't call it deceptive.

It's from the heart. It's genuine. When I was in a Messianic congregation in Atlanta last week, Beth Halal, the congregational leader, Rabbi Kevin, was all excited because, excuse me, the previous week his daughter had been bought mitzvah. I was so proud of her, you know, reading from the Hebrew and all this. And that's just family.

That's how he was raised. He spent time living in Israel with his family. That's how he was raised. That's how his kids are being raised.

So to them, being Jewish and believing in Jesus Yeshua go hand in hand.

So, you really can't say it's deceptive because these people are doing it from the heart. That's number one. Number two, Who said that the churchway is the only way for a Jew to worship? Who says that the church way is the only way the church calendar is the only way for a Jew? Who says that a Jew has to celebrate Easter and Christmas and can't celebrate the resurrection, death and resurrection of the Messiah during Passover?

And can't celebrate Hanukkah instead of Christmas. Where is that written? It's not. The the Jewish community has been so used to this. idea that this is a foreign religion that you're joining.

that to now say no, we're Jews. And we continue to be Jews in that sense. With all respect to my Jewish friends that differ with me here. In that sense, one small messianic congregation creates more of a stir in the Jewish community. and raises more issues in the Jewish community.

Then say ten large churches, each of which have a hundred Jews in them. Because the one is saying, okay, you've assimilated, you've joined this foreign religion, we differ with you, we hate to lose you, but we've lost you to a foreign religion. The other said, what do we mean lost this? We're Jews. We continue to be Jews, live as Jews.

Nothing's changed in that regard. And I think that's what makes it a greater threat. But if you remember early on in the debate, and I played a clip to this effect early on in the show today. Uh Rabbi Freitag. Said, look, anyone telling us not to live as Jews, anyone telling us not to follow the commandments, we're going to reject that.

And I said, well, we're not telling you that. Jesus didn't die, so you don't have to keep the commandments. He died to forgive you for your sins and now enable you by the Spirit to keep them in a new and wonderful way. And I said, Why is it then that you give Messianic Jews such a hard time when they say, Well, we want to keep the commandments through Yeshua? We love the law.

Well, why give them such a hard time? And that, of course, is an Achilles heel there. You've got to face it. If you're going to attack for... Go ahead.

Yeah, I was also Thank you. That these Jews with messianic leanings aren't welcome at the other congregation.

So you have to form. Yeah. It reminds me of like Jews being initially forced into banking, and then later on everyone complains, hey, you Jews own all the banks. You know, what's up with that? And it's the same thing with Messianic congregations.

Oh, you can't beat our congregations. Oh, what are you doing with all these messianic congregations? You're It's got to. Yeah, and look, I believe it's right for believers to gather together. In other words, it's fine if someone still wants to attend.

a traditional synagogue at certain times of the year and it's it's important for their family if they do it or they have a certain burden for their people, they do it. But above all, our weekly gatherings, we should be with fellow believers.

So Jews who believe in Jesus, Gentiles who believe in Jesus, Yeshua should gather together. Absolutely. But to the rabbinic community, don't criticize Messianic Jews for loving the Torah. even if they reject your traditions. Why criticize them if they gather on Shabbat and say the seventh-day Sabbath, God never changed it?

Why criticize them for that? You say good for you. Good. And isn't that what you believe, that by observing the Sabbath that something positive happens in the soul of a Jew?

So why get upset with a Jew? Who does it, who they weren't doing it before, they were secular, they were worldly, now they came to faith in Yeshua as the Messiah, and now they celebrate the seventh-day Sabbath and honor it before the Lord. Why are you getting upset about that? That's a good thing. You should.

Rejoice. All right. Thank you, sir, for the call. We are out of time. Be sure to visit my website, thelineoffire.org, and when you are there, you will.

be exposed to a wide range of life-changing material. Have you visited the Jewish outreach website, RealMessiah? It's got a ton of videos and articles now. We'll be adding more to it, but dive in there, explore, click on the different categories, be blessed, and then stand with us.

So together. You can help reach the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And that's my bottom line today. It's imperative for everyone, not just Jews but Gentiles as well who love Jesus, to pray for the salvation of Israel. From my debate with an Orthodox Jewish Rabbi to Martin Luther's anti-Jewish writings, all coming your way on Thurly Jewish Thursday.

It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. That's 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to our Thoroughly Jewish Thursday broadcast. Here's what's coming your way. We're going to talk about the question: was Martin Luther anti-Semitic?

And we'll give you a glaring example. Example of anti-Semitism today. We're going to take you back into last week's debate with Rabbi Daniel Freitag. Is Jesus the Jewish Messiah? And we are going to open up the Hebrew scriptures together all coming away this hour.

Thanks so much for joining us. If you have a Jewish Related question for me of any kind, 866-348-7884-866-34 Truth. With any Jewish-related question of any kind, be it Hebrew Bible, be it Judaism and Jewish tradition, be it questions about Yeshua being the Messiah, by all means give me a call, 866-348-7884. Let's go back into last week's debate and play a few clips for you. We'll start with number seven.

Rabbi Daniel Freitag, local Orthodox Jewish leader in the Atlanta area. The debate was held right outside of Atlanta. This is one of the points that he made during the debate. The only reason I'm here. is because of two basic things.

This event was advertised to the Jewish community in the Jewish Times. And I had a good talk with the president here who mentioned that the president and vice president of this chapter were born Jewish. I'm here to speak to the Jews. I'm here. Because somebody reached out to my people.

to try to tear them away from their father. And I apologize to you. Who are righteous people, spiritual people, Bible believers. for my strong talk tonight to explain to you why Jews were willing to give themselves up to be burnt by the stake. To not accept.

This idea. Again, it's important that you understand the Jewish perspective: that saying yes to Jesus Yeshua. is saying no to God. that saying yes to Jesus Yeshua is separating you from the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That's saying yes.

To Jesus, Yeshua is saying no to the Torah and to Jewishness. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. And it is only because the church strayed so far from its Jewish roots and even persecuted Jews in Jesus' name, that anyone could have that perception. But that is the perception, and it's something that we have to deal with. And one great way that it's being dealt with today.

Is, is. by Messianic Jewish congregations. all around America, all over Israel. even in other nations. And in these different congregations, Jews are living as Jews.

And they're celebrating the death and resurrection of the Messiah in the midst of the Passover season, like it would have been done by the first followers of Yeshua, all of whom were Jews. And the Sabbath remains Saturday because God never changed it to Sunday, nor did He ever command the Gentile world. to set aside Saturday as the Sabbath.

So there's unity in our diversity. It's perfectly fine for a message in a congregation to meet on a Saturday and for another congregation to meet on a Sunday. And another group to say, you know, we meet in homes on Wednesday night and that's our principal gathering. That's all between them and God. But the idea that a Jew who becomes a follower of Jesus the Messiah ceases to live as a Jew Isn't biblical?

And is utterly incorrect? And it's based on Historical developments that deviated from God's intent in Scripture and based on misunderstanding.

So that's one reason we stress that we are Jewish. Followers of Jesus.

So people understand we're still Jews. People say, used to be Jewish, now I'm Jewish. I don't practice traditional Judaism, but I'm Jewish. In fact, the only reason I ever studied Hebrew and immersed myself in these other issues and got interested in rabbinic literature and have solidarity I have with Israel, because I'm a believer. Otherwise, I was a...

Heroin shooting Ellis using hippie rock drummer. It's through Jesus I got reconnected. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. The idea and the idea that everyone should have a right to address their opinions and people should have a right to hear and learn from it and make educated decisions, I think, is very important. Very important. And evenings like this are extremely important, whatever side you're coming from. Ah.

That was an Orthodox Jewish man. I played a clip, another clip from earlier in the first hour of the broadcast, talking about last week's debate that I have with an Orthodox Jewish rabbi. We'll have it up on YouTube, hopefully for you very soon to watch. Is Jesus the Jewish the Messiah? And here I'm pleased.

that a gentleman would say it's great to hear both sides. Great to hear both sides.

Now, Rabbi Freitag explained at the beginning of his comments that the Jews don't like to debate, and these issues they've been forced by Christians to debate kind of at the edge of the sword and so on, and it's a no-win situation. And yeah, there's been a horrible history of that. The first debates, though, from what we see, took place in New Testament times, right in the synagogues. Right? In the synagogue, when people were, when, say, Saul of Tarsus came to faith and debated these issues in the synagogue.

So. It's important to know that these debates have been taking place for millennia, not only so, but almost inevitably. almost inevitably. When a Jewish person comes to faith in Jesus, you're sat down with a local rabbi. A family member will say, Can you talk to the rabbi?

Or you're sent now to the counter-missionary website. Look at this, look at that. And most Jews that come to faith in Jesus, like me, don't have a massive education. There are some very educated, very traditional, come to faith, but the majority don't have that much background in Judaism and have not been that religious.

So now they're confronted with things they've never dealt with before. And some of them say, Can I bring someone with me? Can I bring someone along with me, you know, talk to the rabbi?

Well, the rabbi would rather talk to you privately. We've heard that over the years. I've offered to go with people. Can we go meet your rabbi together? They'd rather meet with me privately.

And I understand they just want to have the intimate discussion, things like that. It's like, can you bring someone along that can help? Because this is all brand new. This is all absolutely brand new and and you've been studying these rabbi for many, many years and this is a brand new believer. They don't know much.

And and I I had meeting after meeting like that. The first couple years I was saved, I met numerous times with rabbis privately. I was eager to do it. I wanted to talk to them, but I was bombarded with stuff that I didn't have answers for everything. I knew my relationship with God.

I knew the scriptures, but I didn't have answers for anything. I couldn't debate the Hebrew back then.

So I find it ironic that people will want to talk in private. Here, I'll talk to you in private. Or will challenge us in private. And there have been many times where it's intimidating. And then we say, Well, how tell you what?

Why don't we just do this in public? How about that? How about we do this in public? How about we put the issues on the table?

Now look, some people are just disingenuous. I was interacting with uh a gay Jewish activist on Twitter the other day. And trying to do it in the midst of breaks during radio and saying, hey, I can't really do it. I can't get into in-depth conversation on Twitter, especially now. but trying to interact.

And I said, Hey, call my radio show. Right? Call my radio show if you have. An issue, and if you think I'm wrong about God and transgender issues in the Hebrew Bible, call my show. And he tweeted back and said, well, I'm not going to give you a platform or increase your platform by coming on your show.

And I said, thankfully, by God's grace, I've got a great platform. You know, we've got over a half million folks on Facebook and a good social media following, and a lot of folks reading the articles, and a lot of folks listening to the radio show and watching us on YouTube.

So, thankfully, by God's grace, it's all by his grace. I appreciate it. We take the platform very seriously. I said, I've got a great platform. You're not going to expand it by coming on.

I'm offering you my platform to get your message out. It's the exact opposite. I'm not going to do that. It's like, okay, how about a private phone call? No comment, no response.

So that's just being disingenuous. That's just dissing me. And when I say, okay, well, let's have an honest conversation. Can we talk in private? Nothing.

Nothing. And you know, there are other liberals I've reached out to, and I need to talk. We need to talk. I need to talk to white evangelical Christians that voted for Trump. Here's a long bucket list of issues.

Okay, I wrote back. I wrote a public article. We sent it. We had people call the person. We emailed the person.

I believe we tried to call, but I know we emailed them. I tweeted them. We reached out every possible way. I said, here's the article I wrote in response. Read it.

You can see my tone.

So let's talk. Silence. Silence. That's happened with other. I'm not going to mention all the names of public leaders.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll talk, we'll debate, we'll have a. they drop out. Never hear from them again. But there are rabbis who are aggressively pushing their counter-missionary position. They have YouTube videos up.

They have pamphlets out, they have internet sites, they have all types of materials arguing their point. And I said, well, tell you what then, you do this, you're sharp, you're professional at this, you've done it for many years, let's put the issues on the table and have a public debate. No, we don't debate.

Well, hang on, that bothers me.

Now some we've had to agree, Some people have had to figure out a way that we can do a debate that's mutually acceptable, and God willing. Less than a month from now, that's going to be unfolding. an ultra-Orthodox rabbi, counter-missionary, whom I highly respect. He and I finally hatched a plan. I wanted to do oral debates, but he told me from day one it's just not his style.

He wouldn't do it. And he likes to have the material, think about it, reflect on it, look at it in writing, and then rebut.

So we interact in writing, but I'd never keep up. There's no way that I could have a lengthy written debate, especially with others who want to, other people who are solid that want to debate me in writing as well. Time just doesn't permit that.

So we kept coming up with different ideas how we can debate the issues and finally agreed on, and I think it was his proposal, I thought it was a great proposal. That on the same day we each release a video on the same subject, you know, is Jesus the Jewish Messiah, or who is the Messiah, or whatever. What does the Bible say about the Messiah? The same day, we with his organization, with mine, at the same time, boom. We put a video online and it goes live.

Right, same time. Uh and then one month later. We out we post a rebuttal to each other, and one month after that, a rebuttal to the rebuttal.

So now you'll have three 20 minute videos of each of us, one hour, one hour, side by side, you can evaluate. Great, and we get to critique each other's position. Great idea, sir. I respect it because he wants to do the same thing I want to do. Get the issues on the table for people who are seeking so that they can do their best to sort them out.

What I don't like is that someone's going to raise their issue and argue their point and won't debate it. That's what I don't like. That they're going to challenge you, challenge you, challenge you, but then they won't publicly debate it. That's what bothers me. personally.

7884. I'll tell you what, let's grab two more clips from the debate, and we'll get number eight and number 12.

So, first, Rabbi Freitag from last week's debate, clip number eight.

Now if we were to believe that Jesus was the Messiah to the extent That he has changed. That. Change that, that mandate. That really, what I need to do, me, Daniel Freitech, what I need to do is to cut it out with the commandments. Stop keeping Shabbat.

Stop keeping kosher. What I really need to do is figure out a way to accept somebody who died for my sins. That all I need is for there to be one place in this book. One. Just once.

anywhere. First person statement to me from God. That says, Dear Jew. I changed my mind. No longer shall you keep the commandments.

For the Messiah will come. And through his death, you will no longer need to keep the commandments. And that was basically the one point that the rabbi drilled home all night, but as I said right at the beginning. Is that the point we're debating? Because I don't believe that.

And I believe God said Okay. I want you to believe in this man who died for you, and then don't observe the Sabbath and don't follow the commandments or anything. Yeah. Who said that? Where did he get that idea from?

Hmm. You say, well, that's the way the church did it. And if you're going to follow Jesus, you have to cease being Jewish. The church cut itself off from its Jewish roots. Yeah, they're Catholic.

baptismal formula Formulas from the Middle Ages, late Middle Ages, where in order to be baptized, you had to renounce all Jewishness. You had to say, I'm going to separate from the rabbis. I'm not going to observe the Sabbath or circumcise my sons or on and on and on. Whereas Paul said in 1 Corinthians 7, if you're saved, circumcised, when you're called to faith, circumcised, don't become uncircumcised.

Nowhere does the New Testament say if you're a Jew, stop being a Jew. No, you're not going to be saved by being a Jew. You're not going to be saved by observance of Torah. But where does it say if your Jews stop being a Jew? Show me that it's not there.

What we do have first person is God saying, I'll make a new covenant. And it won't be like the Sinai Covenant. I'll put my Torah, my teaching, in your hearts. And there'll be automatic obedience, and I'll remember your sins and wickedness no more. Forgive you, and remember your sins and wickedness no more.

As I said in the debate, that could mean the same Torah. that was given at Sinai. is now putting our hearts in the new covenant. but we automatically obey it and our sins are forgiven. Or it could mean that he'll have different content, different teaching tora, again, authoritative instruction, teaching, law.

Could mean that. Either way. God did say that the relationship will change. It won't be like the Sinai covenant.

So that implies changes, but nowhere. Does God say, okay, when the Messiah comes, Jews cease to be Jews. When the Messiah comes, Jews abandon Sabbath. Where is that written? So, unfortunately, one of the major points the rabbi made all night was completely irrelevant.

It's like you got up and said, well, you didn't prove that Elvis President is from Mars. I don't believe Elvis President is from Mars. We'll be right back. Change the world. Change the world.

Send it long. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. I need the juices. My family need Jesus. Yes, my country. Neither Jesus.

Yes. Uh this is true. This is uh changing, my love. You know, it's it's a big question. If Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah, if he is not the saviour of the world, If what the New Testament says is not true.

Then all of the things that are happening in his name around the world. the miraculous things, the things that cannot possibly be explained other than divine intervention. None of them can be real. They are either demonic deceptions or God Himself is deluding the whole world. Or they're figments of people's imaginations.

Obviously, certain things you can't write off as figments of people's imaginations.

So how do these things happen? Who's behind them? Obviously. God Himself is behind Him because He's drawing people to Himself through this. which means that he continues to act on behalf of the whole world.

If Jesus is not the Messiah, God has done nothing redemptive. to reach out to the whole world, rather waiting for Israel's obedience to reach the place where the Messiah can be revealed and then the Messianic kingdom established on the earth. And so God's done nothing. in a redemptive, salvific way for the whole world. Go ahead and rot.

Go ahead and go to hell. Go ahead and be lost. Go ahead and try to find your own way in the midst of all the other religions. That's what God would be saying to the rest of the world. Which is why there's a big question.

If Jesus is not the Jewish Messiah, then what about all these other people around the world who believe that he is? Are they all deceived and believing lies? Traditional Judaism would say they are. But the lies are better than believing in many different gods, being polytheists. Islamic Christianity are really bad.

At least they're a step in the right direction. Trust me. Christians are not laying down their lives around the world for the gospel. sacrificing their lives to reach people with the message of Jesus Yeshua, just to give them a better lie. until the real Messiah comes.

What utter nonsense and what an insult. to the gospel faith. 86634Truth. Let's go to Grace in Eagleville or Siegelville, Texas. Welcome to the line of fire.

Thank you. Thank you, Brother Brown. Thank you for taking my call. Sure thing. I wanted to also thank you quickly for your ministry, and thank you for all that you do to reach the lost and to minister to the body of Christ.

and know that you're in our prayers and how much we love you and your family in the ministry.

Well, thank you so much. I appreciate that deeply. You're welcome. I did want to ask about PERM. And it's not on the calendar.

I was wondering if you know why it's not on the calendar as a Jewish holiday. And then if you could tell us a little bit about Purim and how it's celebrated. And just one other quick question about the name of Yeshua. Is it the same as the name of Jesus? 'cause I read that it's not that Jesus means different from Yeshua means salvation and Jesus does not.

No, no.

Okay, so let me answer the second question first. Jesus is the English way of saying the Hebrew name Yeshua. Just like in Spanish it's Jesus. uh or in Italian it's jesu. In English it's Jesus.

But it means one and the same thing. It goes back to the Hebrew. Yeshua, which is short for Yahweh is salvation or Yahweh saves.

So it's absolutely the same. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise. But just like my name Michael means who is like God, it goes back to Hebrew michael. If I was uh Spanish it would be Miguel. But it's the same name, Michael, who is like God, Michael in English, Miguel in Spanish.

So, Yeshua in Hebrew, Jesus in English, Jesus in Spanish, Jesus in Italian. all the same name, all the same person, all with the same meaning. As far as Purim Grace, it is on the Jewish calendar, any Jewish calendar you have, it will come up as a holiday this year. It was uh basically two weeks ago. And it's celebrated on a two-day period.

It's a festive occasion. It's a fun occasion. Jews will gather together. They'll often wear costumes, and you'll have someone representing evil Haman. And when the name Haman is sounded, everyone hisses.

And then, you know, someone else will represent Esther or Mordecai. Often there are Purim plays that are put on that are fun. There's celebration with certain foods that are eaten and things like that. And then gathering in synagogue, the scroll of Esther is read, etc.

So if you just get online and just type in the word Purim. Which, of course, goes back to the poor, the lot, and as explained in Esther the ninth chapter. But if you just go there, I'm just type in the word, let's see, what did I type in? Just type in Purim, and you'll see Judaism 101, Purim, what is Purim? All these Jewish websites will come up immediately with more information for you there.

Hey, I appreciate the call. You may have been asking and wondering about... Is it on the biblical calendar of the five books of Moses?

Well, it comes after. It comes centuries later. It comes almost a thousand years after the giving of the law on Mount Sinai.

So that's not why it's not part of that calendar. But it's part of every Jewish calendar worldwide for sure. 866-34-Truth. Before we go. back to the phones.

Let me play one more clip from the debate. And I'm addressing the issue of atonement. We'll play clip number 12 from my debate last week with Rabbi Daniel Freitag. If all there is is keeping the commandments, why did you need a sacrificial system? Why is there a need for Yom Kippur, Day of Atonement?

And how is it working out for us? The temple's been destroyed almost 2,000 years. How is it working out? If you, sir, want to be righteous enough and stand before God and say, I stand before you by my righteousness, by keeping the commandments, go ahead. I'm going to plead for mercy.

I'm going to do the very best I know how, and I'm going to plead for mercy. The good news is that God gave us atonement. This is in the Torah. If you believe the law, then you've got to believe all of it. And the atonement system is central.

What happened to the blood sacrifices? Yeah, so again Why did God give blood atonement as part of the Sinai covenant? And the obvious answer: well, because we're going to fall short, we can't be justified by keeping the commandments alone. And absolutely, without question, a religious Jew would say, yes, we need atonement, and God forgives us when we repent. And that's the whole issue, so that if we truly repent, God will forgive us.

Well, repentance alone was never enough, it was repentance and blood. sacrifices, substitutionary atonement. Take away the sacrifices, the animals that were killed on the day of atonement, the cleansing of the blood on the day of atonement, the goat that was sent out into the wilderness, the so-called scapegoat bearing the sins of Israel. Take those away, and there was no atonement system.

So, yes, repentance is important. Yes, obedience is important. But we also Desperately need atonement, and it comes through the substitutionary death of Yeshua the Messiah, Jesus the Messiah, the one to whom the sacrificial system. ultimately pointed, the one through whom we can receive eternal redemption, forgiveness of sins, and a new heart and a changed life. This is the reality.

This is the potential of the new covenant. This is what God has called us to walk in. To my fellow Jews listening, I say there is a better way. We'll be right back. Shame.

It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Thank you so much for joining us on this thoroughly Jewish Thursday. Michael Brown, welcome to the broadcast 866. 348. 7884 is the number to call with your Jewish-related questions You want to hear something ugly.

You want to hear something. anti-Semitic in the name of Jesus. Westboro Baptist infamous for its God hates fags rhetoric and it's God hates America rhetoric and rejoicing when the corpse of one of our heroes, one of our soldiers from overseas is sent back after being say blown up by an improvised explosive device, an IED, and they'll rejoice at the funeral and that's God's judgment on America.

Well, not surprisingly, they're also anti-Semitic. And clip number 20, Johnny, Westboro Baptist Church. protested at Yeshiva University. Orthodox Jewish University in New York City with Jews killed Jesus signs. And here's some of their rhetoric.

The Jews killed their Savior. All their prophets said until they mourn for that sin and repent, there's no hope. They have a veil over their hearts, and they're not going to repent until that day when the Lord is about to return. Ah, well, actually There are worse things that have been said. and they do believe that there'll be Jewish turning at the end of the age.

That's at least a positive and a surprising positive from them. But this Whole indictment that the Jews killed Jesus. In other words, a Jew today. is somehow responsible for the death of Jesus two thousand years ago. Or a Jew living in Europe a thousand years ago is somehow responsible for the death of Jesus 2,000 years ago.

This is one of the horrid anti-Semitic libels. That has been used, one of the charges that has been used. And in fact, it gets even worse: deicide. Deicide. Homicide is what the killing of a man.

Deicide is the killing of God. And this is the belief. if Jesus in fact Is God in the flesh? that when the Jews killed Jesus, the Jews were trying to kill God. Therefore all Jews of all time were guilty.

That is the type of rhetoric that was used to stir up anti-Jewish hatred for centuries and stirred up professing Christians who were nothing but hypocrites and liars. And they burned Jews at the stake for their alleged crimes. And they offered Jews baptism or death. And it's one reason that many Jewish people have found it so hard to even entertain the idea of Jesus being the Messiah after all. After all, He is the arch enemy of Israel.

After all, Jewish blood has been shed for centuries in his name. A traditional Jew connects Christianity with the Holocaust. You say, what? Holocaust, Hitler, Nazis, they were anti Christian. True.

Some say, but they were the children of Christians.

Some say, what kind of Christians could they have been the children of?

Well, here's the problem. Martin Luther himself. Initially, spoke very graciously about the Jewish people, saw the way the Catholic Church had treated them and in 1523 wrote a lovely little treatise concerning, excuse me, that Jesus Christ was born a Jew and the whole goal and purpose was to reach out to the Jews and to say, hey, the way the Jews have been treated, the way they've suffered through the centuries, and the way the church has treated them, man, I'd rather be a pig than a Christian.

So let's reach out with Love.

Well, 20 years later, when the Jews did not respond to his overtures, when he had been exposed to ugly anti-Jesus literature. uh that was in traditional Jewish circles. When he was old and sick, He wrote his mini-book concerning the Jews and their lives, in which he laid out exactly what should be done to the Jews, including forbidding the rabbis to teach under penalty of death, including herding them together in ghettos, including setting their synagogues and places of business on fire. Council from Martin Luther in 1543, who put that into practice? Adolf Hitler.

That's truth. That's reality. We'll be right back. Give us strength to always do what's right. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Amen. Hallelujah indeed.

This is Michael Brown. You're listening to the Line of Fire on this thoroughly Jewish Thursday. 866-348-7884. If you have a Jewish-related question, I'm going to be going to the phones momentarily. But first, I was sent a link from a discussion at the Lingonier National Conference, 2017 National Conference, and Stephen Nichols and W.

Robert Gottfried are discussing whether Martin Luther was guilty of anti-Semitism. And on the one hand, I appreciate them making a distinction between anti-Semitism and being anti-Jewish. In other words, it's not an ethnic thing. Jews would be welcomed in Luther's churches, but It is a rejection of Judaism, and that's the issue. It's theological, not ethnic.

On the other hand, I would say there's a bit of a fine line often between the two. And you have to ask this question.

Okay, here's some Luther quotes. The sun has never shone on a more bloodthirsty people than they, the Jews. who imagine that they are God's people who have been commissioned and commanded to murder and to slay the Gentiles. Is that just anti-Jewish anti-Judaism? Or, or Um is is uh Is it anti-Semitism.

There's a book that I highly recommend by Eric Gritsch, G-R-I-T. T S C H, Martin Luther's Antisemitism, Against His Better Judgment. And some of the quotes in this, even though I was very familiar with the material, some of the quotes were just staggering. Um Gritz says there's even a hint of racism in Luther when he commented on the unsubstantiated rumor. that Jews killed Christian children.

this crime still shines forth from their eyes and their skin. We are at fault in not slaying them. The Jews. Uh Greet says such a declaration cannot be limited to a specific historical context. It is timeless and means death to the Jews, whether it's uttered by Luther or Adolf Hitler.

Moreover, Luther himself was willing to quote kill a blaspheming Jew I would slap his face, and if I could, fling him to the ground, and in my anger pierce him with my sword. This is some of Luther's rhetoric. Uh-huh. here. Stephen Nichols.

Um He explains, you know, Luther is favorable, reaching out, so his early writings are very favorable. He begins to think through this, though, in his later writings, and the writing that really tips. Trips Luther up is his on the Jews and their detestable lies. And it's in that writing that Luther unleashes his rhetoric against the Jews and is very forceful in his rhetoric.

Now we need to say that he was an equal opportunity offender. It wasn't just that rhetoric was not just reserved for the Jews. He used the same rhetoric for the Papists, for the Anabaptists, for the nominal Christians that he used for the Jews, but he was wrong. He spoke harshly. And I think he abused his influence that he had in speaking harshly.

I think. I think he abused his influence that he had in speaking harshly? And saying that Jews should be killed? and forbidding rabbis to teach under penalty of death? in using and writing incendiary words that end up end up helping fuel the fires of the Holocaust?

So we need to say Luther was wrong in that, but this isn't necessarily anti-Semitism. That's really a 20th century phenomenon.

Well then, how would you put it? If Luther hated the Jews as Jews. ethnically and religiously. How would you put it back then? It's an early version of anti-Semitism.

What Luther was interested in was really following the lead of the Apostle Paul and following the lead of the New Testament. Don't blame Luther's anti-Semitism on Paul and the New Testament.

So You know, he says it was not an ethnic motivation that prompted Luther to this, it was a theological one.

So the answer to this is we need to understand him in his context, but we should not give him a free pass. We need to recognize that he has legs of iron, but feet of clay. This is one of those instances where his feet of clay do, in fact, come through. Come on! as more than feet of clay is more serious and ugly than feet of clay.

So let us not. Let us not downplay the ugliness. of what he wrote. And the effects of what he wrote. 866-34-TRUTH as we approach the 500th anniversary of the Reformation.

Yeah, I think I need to write afresh on this.

Okay.

So to clarify a question. From a caller. Grace is wondering why Purimism Purim is not. is not on our regular calendar. All depends on what calendar you have.

because it would not be a holiday for school children. the way other days would be. It might not be on the calendar. It's on every Jewish calendar. If you have a web calendar and it gives you options, you want holidays on, religious holidays, it'll be on there if you put it on.

So it is not as primary. As Yom Kippur Day of Atonement. or Passover, Pesach, is not as present. primary is those. But it's absolutely a Jewish holiday.

And it is on many calendars. That being said, you'll find Easter and Christmas on calendars, but you won't find a lesser. You will not find a lesser criterion. Christian holiday on calendars. The same way with Purim.

It is a Jewish holiday. but it is not on the same level, say, as Passover, and because of that may not make it onto a calendar, or kids wouldn't have time off from school because of it. Those would be the only reasons. Otherwise, it's there. All right, hope that helps.

866-348-7884. Let's go to Richmond. No, we're not going to Richmond, Virginia. We're going to Greensboro, North Carolina. William, thank you, sir, for calling the line of fire.

Oh, yes, sir. Thank you for taking my call. Um I just something I've always kind of wondered about, Dr. Brown. When in Christ's return, When he is in reign on the earth, and the temple is to be restored.

Is the that particular temple basically supposed to be? uh like a symbolic I mean, I know it'd be like an actual temple, but it is a just symbolic Of the law and the way things were. Um because since Christ was is the ultimate atonement. and sacrifice. Uh I I can't see like uh temple sacrifice and and and that type of thing being reissued.

Um I would just wonder what would be like blood sacrifices and things like that since Christ is already here and and he is the ultimate sacrifice. Yep, so let's let's look at the different possible ways of understanding this, okay? Uh one would be Now one would be a literal temple going to be built. Second would be, if it is built, will there be blood sacrifices? The third would be, if it is built, what would be the significance of those blood sacrifices?

A traditional Jew Has no problem with this because they are praying every day for the restoration of the temple. And to offer the sacrifices. They miss doing it. They feel it's important. They want to be able to obey that commandment and other commandments as well that they require a temple to have in order to observe.

So they are. praying for these things. And it's no problem or contradiction for them because they don't believe that the Messiah came with a once-for-all sacrifice.

So you can see from their viewpoint, no problem. The issues are that Ezekiel 40 through 48 don't seem to have the same dimensions. as the temple or tabernacle as God instructed it to be built, how does that work? And then if the new covenant is instituted and God says, I no longer remember your sins, why are there animal sacrifices? But for traditional Judaism, they look forward to it and say, this is a proof that your message is not true because you say there was a once-for-all sacrifice, so why will there be blood sacrifices?

For that reason, many Christians take it as entirely spiritual. They say there will not be a literal physical temple. It's entirely spiritual, and it's just imagery. Ezekiel 40 through 48, these other passages are just spiritual imagery talking about the presence of God on the earth, but not a real temple. Problem is it seems the prophets were expecting a real temple, and there are other passages as well.

that speak about future sacrifices.

So I believe it's best to say there will be a physical temple built when the Messiah returns. He will rule and reign out of Jerusalem. And just as the sacrifices under the law look forward to the coming of the Messiah, but themselves could not truly take away sins, themselves could not truly change the inner being of a person, but they look forward to the Messiah.

Now we have communion that looks back to his death on the cross that really does save us and change us. that in the millennial kingdom there will be animal sacrifices that will look back to what the messiah did. They will not have any more power than the Old Testament sacrifices did, but they will be a constant remembrance of what he did on the cross dying for our sins. I'm not dogmatic about it because it's a future event. and at these future events it's often hard to know how they're going to unfold.

You know, when the Bible may talk about people attacking Jerusalem, you know, on riding horses. Does that mean they'll literally be riding horses? Or? Was that just what was common then?

So there's going to be an attack and that's the way they conveyed it.

So is it possible the prophet is using sacrifices and things as metaphors for these spiritual issues? It could be.

So William, I believe there will be a physical temple. It appears to me... that there will likely be animal sacrifices, but I'm not sure about it. What I do know is ultimately, everything that'll be done will point to the once-for-all work of the Messiah.

So that's what we stand strongly on. The rest will sort itself out. God of light, hear our cry, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us on Thurly Jewish Thursday, 866-3487-885. Four. Um, I've got a stack of things here.

By the way, by the way, if you live in North Carolina, there has been a compromise, so a repeal of some aspects of HB2 in North Carolina. I'm scheduled to be on with Todd Starnes tonight on Fox Talk Radio at 8 o'clock. Eastern Standard Time, and we're going to be discussing this issue: transgender issues. I'm going to be in dialogue debate with a transgender activist.

So that should be at 8 o'clock tonight. And I've been on the run all day, have not been able to stop. At any length, to see everything that's happened with the bill. I know that folks are unhappy on both sides of the aisle, it appears. Um this is just uh a harsh reality right now that we're facing that we'll work through when I say we, uh those living here in the States, those living in North Carolina, will work through one way or another.

And this is either way, We keep preaching Jesus. Either way, we keep reaching out. Either way, we want those who identify as transgender to know the love of God and not to think that we view them as the worst sinners in the world or the worst enemies in the world or anything like that. At the same time, At the same time, we believe in basic privacy expectations. We believe in the importance of gender distinction.

And because of that, these are issues that we will continue to discuss. Uh let's see. I'm rubber, you're glue Jewish Telegraph Association, Tel Aviv, Andrew Tobin reporting March 26th, Iran and Hamas imposed sanctions targeting U.S. and Israel. Israel's archenemies apparently couldn't wait until April Fool's Day.

On Sunday, geopolitics got all hafuch and turned upside down, as they say in this country, or hafuch, which is upside down, turned upside down. Iran imposed penalties on U.S. firms for working with Israel, and Hamas closed its border with the Jewish State. Stereotypically, of course, it's the other way around with the United States and Israel doing the sanctioning of Iran and Hamas.

So who's Hamas hurting when they close its border with the Jewish state? Israel brings in humanitarian aid constantly. in into Gaza. And if not for them exporting or importing weapons constantly and using their funds to try to destroy Jewish people and build tunnels underground to kidnap Jewish children and Jewish soldiers and on and on, You'd have open borders. Anyway, just Okay, done with done with that.

Um Black Zionist leader, this is from 10 days ago, just getting to now, on the Algamann. Rachel Frommer, black Zionist leader, despite anti-Israel movement efforts, vast majority of African Americans support the Jewish State. This is Dumasani, Washington. A black Christian Zionist leader told the Algamon on Friday, so about 12 days ago now, that despite the anti-Israel movement's best efforts, the vast majority of the African-American community support the Jewish state. To Massani Washington, Senior Pastor for California's Congregation of Zion, Founder of the Institute of Black Solidarity with Israel and Diversity Outreach coordinated with Christians United for Israel, was responding to endeavors such as Black History Month in February, during which anti-Palestinian activism was highlighted at college campuses throughout the country.

Only the intellectually lazy Why intersectionality, he said. referring to the concept of placing under the same ideological umbrella all racial, class, or gender groups self-described as discriminated against among these blacks and Palestinians. Most members of the black community attend church. where they are taught a biblical worldview of Israel, of the Jewish people as God's chosen. When many blacks hear, for example, that Black Lives Matter has brought an anti-Israel position into their movement, they are, paraphrase, angered or confused.

They don't get what one has to do with. The other Washington said that pro-Israel students should remember that no community Black, Hispanic, or Jewish is monolithic. and the hard-left academic world involved in, quote, black Palestinian solidarity are not representative of the majority of the African-American population. The anti-Israel view is not true. Bull, and smart people don't want that.

Okay, so what he's saying is. This whole idea.

Well African Americans, they side with African Americans side with Uh Palestinians, because Palestinians are oppressed and black Americans were oppressed. He says it's nonsense. You don't just make that generalization. And that you're going to now compare the situation of the Palestinians to the situation of African Americans historically? Do you say no?

African Americans, higher percentage, I believe, in church than Caucasian Americans, than white Americans. As far as I know, it's still true, I think. And he's saying in church, they are getting... They're getting a good exposure to a biblical world revision, which is going to be much more pro-Israel.

So good job, Pastor. I appreciate that. And um Ambassador Nikki Haley, she continues to speak up against the UN's anti-Semitism. And she was at an anti-BDS conference, which is Boycott. discrimination, excuse me, discrimination, boycott, divestment, and sanctions against Israel.

So she was at a conference opposing this. She says the effort to delegitimize Israel on campus and at UN is one And the same. Quote, the effort to delegitimize the state of Israel being waged on college campuses and the anti-Israel obsession at the U.S. are one and the same. They both seek to deny Israel's right to exist.

They are both efforts to intimidate her friends and embolden her enemies. They are both extensions of an ancient hatred. Good job, Nikki Haley. She called the BDS movement a movement away from truth and away from history. She slammed those who condemn Israel for human rights violations while ignoring the behavior of countries like Iran, North Korea, and Syria.

Quote, it makes absolutely no sense and has no connection to any reasonable definition of justice. She also boasted of having passed anti-BDS legislation in South Carolina. First bill of its county, the West when she was governor. Quote: Our state would not do business with people who traffic in Hate.

Alright, hey, uh I am real short on time. There's a question from Daniel in Dallas. Uh Tell you what. We don't have time to get to it now. Feel free to call in tomorrow.

But if I understand the question, Was there a day that God told the Jewish people to worship?

Well, specifically they were to set apart the seventh day as holy. And this was to be a day of rest from regular labor and a day given over to the Lord.

So that is foundational to Judaism. Sabbath observance is foundational to Judaism and found in numerous texts in the Torah, with the giving of the Decalogue in particular in Exodus 20 and Daniel, excuse me, Deuteronomy 5, Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, where it's laid out plainly there in terms of. Total obedience to set aside this day as holy to the Lord, you find in other passages about the Sabbath. And there are other days in the calendar set aside where you either fast or pray or fast or don't go about your normal work. And that would be, of course, the Sabbath being the centerpiece of that.

All right, friends, remember, just two more days. Two more days to join with us as torch bearers to support us in our Jewish outreach work. I think you can see the importance of it by God's grace. We've got a wonderful Jewish resource package we're sending you away as a thank you when you become a torch bearer. All at thelineoffire.org.

Don't forget to do it today or tomorrow. My bottom line. Let us make the message of Yeshua so clear to Jewish people. that he will be the only stumble black involved. Hmm.