Answers to Your Questions on the Church and Immigration; and Update on the Repeal of HB2

So was the Obama administration really surveilling Trump and some questions answered about immigration. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. You know, I'm not making any of this stuff up. I'm not looking for the wildest, craziest quote out there.

Talk about major media people. saying all kinds of crazy things. An article on Town Hall today by Loretta Brown notes that Trevor Noah of Comedy Central calls Mike Pence, quote, Sharia Mike. Because he won't dine alone with women that aren't His wife. Yeah, I I spent a lot of time on the broadcast talking about this yesterday.

Good. And I did write an article about it. You can read it on our website, thelineofire.org, where I have some of these crazy quotes. But this is the latest. And it it strikes me.

that the same media attacking Donald Trump for being a serial adulterer. is now attacking Mike Pence, For his marital guidelines of fidelity, one of which is not to work late alone with an aide who's not male. Another is not to dine alone with a woman. These would be practices I'd have as well, and most men that I know in ministry would have the same practices. And the same media that kind of, ah, Bill Clinton, so what?

He had his little things on the side, his flings on the side. What a guy. Then the same media looks at Mike Pence. What a jerk! Crazy, isn't it?

Wild, very revealing. All right, Michael Brown, welcome to the broadcast, 866-348-7884. Number to call 348.

Well, I started giving you the number. I don't have to give it to you one more time.

Well, 8663-4Truth.

Okay. Uh A bunch of things I want to cover with you today. I preached this past weekend at a fine congregation in the St. Louis area, Grace Church, St. Louis, pastored by Ron Tucker.

And just lovely people there, very hungry for the word and hungry for the truth. And I spoke on three different subjects in their three weekend services: Saturday night on breaking the stronghold of food. These were topics I was asked to address. Sunday morning, the first service on immigration in the church. Second Sunday service on LGBT activism in the church.

And at the end of the first and third services, because there was nothing after them, I took questions. We did QA from the congregation. They could text in their questions and email them in, and then folks on the church staff went through them. And then we answered, I don't know, about 13 questions each time. We could not.

answer the questions on immigration because we had a Another service to follow.

So we asked the folks at the church to text in their immigration questions. And I'm going to be answering those, talking a little bit more today about the church and immigration, always a relevant subject. I see news that according to one. Authority formerly involved in immigration, illegal immigration is down 66%. under President Trump.

That's positive. We want illegal immigration down, and then we want to deal compassionately with those who have been in the country for many years and are working hard and are contributing citizens and raising families here. And we want to do our best to keep out those who want to destroy our country.

So, we're going to talk about that. I'm going to answer a bunch of interesting questions. And then, yeah, we're going to spend a few minutes. on this question of whether or not Susan Rice, former National Security Advisor and U.S. Ambassador to the UN.

Whether she Acted wrongly, whether she unmasked people who were being surveilled. I'll explain, being surveilled under the Obama administration, I'll explain what unmasked is. And was she involved in leaking this information to others to make sure that it got out? Serious accusations, and yet, CNN, here's a report on Grabian News, Grabian.com. CNN goes on rampage against Susan Rice bombshell, instructs viewers to ignore story.

What's going on? We'll sort it out right here. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us today on the line of fire, 866-348-7884. The number of call if you want to join in today's conversation.

Okay. Let me say a few things about President Trump. Yes, I do wish that he would tone down some of his tweets. If he wants to keep tweeting, and that's his way of communicating, let him be who he is. But the nature of personal insults and the things like that, and the street fighting that he could avoid.

I would prefer to see that. Simply so that If there's going to be a battle, let it be a battle over substance and not these side issues. I understand he got elected being who he is, but he could still be who he is. and do it in a way that gives less open doors to criticism and attack. My opinion as someone who voted for him, albeit with reluctance and concern.

Now, He was on the air. November 13th, 2016. with um Leslie Stahl. on 60 minutes. a show called The 45th President.

Listen to this interaction. Are people going to be surprised about how you conduct yourself as President? In a very good manner, but depends on what the situation is.

Sometimes you have to be rougher when I look at the world and you look at how various places are taking advantage of our country. And I say it, and I say it very proudly: it's going to be America first. It's not going to be what we're doing. We've lost, we're losing this country. We're losing this country.

That's why I. won the election and by the way won it easily. I mean I won easily. Of course, you're gonna have to. I won't easily part, it's just he is who he is.

But When he says, look, depends on what we're dealing with or who we're dealing with. In other words, if we're dealing with ISIS, you've got to be rough and tough and not, oh, we would really like it if you wouldn't do such horrible things. No, obviously they're going to be taken out through violence and through warfare and things like that, and the ideology must be confronted outright.

Well, what about If in fact If in fact you You find evidence that there has been Illegal wiretapping, okay, maybe not wiretapping, surveilling of different kinds of your administration. What if you find out that people in the intelligence world have it in for you and they're trying to bring you down illegally? Unethically, Well, I imagine this would be one of those moments where Trump would say, I'm going to be rough. I'm going to be rough and tough, and I'm going to call things out.

Well, that's what he's been doing. Of course, he's been mocked and vilified. There's no evidence of any NSA, FBI, anybody wiretapping Trump or his people.

Now. We have reports apparently multiple sources. Multiple sources who are saying, yes, Susan Rice unmasked people that were part of the Trump administration prior to the election.

Okay, what does it mean to unmask? I wasn't familiar with this concept until it came up recently.

So let's say that the National Security Agency is. Is monitoring conversations that you are having with. Syria.

Some folks in Syria you're interacting with, somehow you're interacting with the government there, and they want to know what's being said. or you're interacting with the Chinese government.

So they are surveilling a foreign government, a foreign entity. And you as an American are part of that conversation.

Now, your identity will be covered unless your identity plays into the national security concern. If, for example, you're dialoguing with people in Syria, and the reason you're dialoguing with them is because you're trying to import terrorism to America, well, in that case, In that case, then your identity would be unmasked, because you are now part of the security problem. But if it just so happens that it was your phone line that was being tapped because of your communication with someone in Syria, it happened to be someone in the government, but you were trying to find out about a relative that were they dead or alive in this hospital and you were giving them as a contact, well, there's no reason anyone should know your identity.

So according to the reports that we have. All right, and Susan Rice is denying any wrongdoing. The left-wing media is basically... Turning a blind eye to this and even being more aggressive. We're just not even going to cover this or talk about it.

CNN even telling viewers, ignore the story. But according to multiple sources, and I'm reading now from the Daily Caller Richard Pollack yesterday, former President Barack Obama's national security advisor, Susan Rice, ordered U.S. spy agencies to produce, quote, detailed spreadsheets of legal phone calls involving Donald Trump and his aides when he was running for president, according to former U.S. Attorney Joseph Dijanova. Quote, what was produced by the intelligence community at the request of Ms.

Rice were detailed spreadsheets of intercepted phone calls with unmasked trope associates in perfectly legal conversations with individuals. In other words, nothing that they did. Nothing that they did was wrong. Nothing that they did was worthy of them being unmasked. Yet, according to these reports, Susan Rice had them unmasked, and now you can know exactly who spoke to whom about what, even though it's none of your business.

It's none of the government's business to unmask who these people are. And according to sources, th this was now released to lots of different individuals within the intelligence agencies, basically with the goal being to make sure somebody leaked it. and now tried to make the Trump administration look bad, and this could be what happened with General Mike Flynn. Whether he was guilty of anything or not is a whole separate story, but it seems that there were things that he was not guilty of doing, yet his identity was released because this was part of the desire to make the Trump administration look bad. In other words, this yes, this is a smoking gun.

This is serious.

So yesterday, Fox News and Bloomberg News, citing multiple sources, reported that Rice had requested the intelligence information that was produced in a highly organized operation. Fox said the unmasked names of Trump aides were given to officials at the National Security Council, NSC, the Department of Defense, James Clapper, President Obama's Director of National Intelligence, and John Brennan, Obama's CIA Director. These are major, major Major allegations, seemingly supported by an interview March 2nd, Obama Deputy Defense Secretary Evelyn Farkas. who said an interview on MSNBC, she was, quote, urging my former colleagues to get as much information as you can, get as much intelligence as you can, before President Obama leaves the administration. Uh Anyway, then she said subsequently, no, I don't give anybody anything but advice.

I'm not giving anybody directors. All right, I'm not going to spend more time on this. Let other talk show hosts spend more time on this. Let the TV News spend more time on this. Suffice it to say that that as I said from from the beginning, it would not surprise me in the least.

If illegal, and unethical things were done by the Obama administration. And it would not surprise me in the least if they were done by the Bush administration. and if they're done under the Trump administration. In other words, I do not have The most true. trust.

and the pristine nature. And the pristine motives of our government. Here, look, look, let's look at a broader issue. Big Pharma pharmaceutical industry. I always just assumed this is the medical industry just trying to help people and that's your only goal.

You want to help people.

Well, how naive of me to think that money is not going to talk. and that big corporations are not going to have a certain sway.

So I have heard account after account from people within the industry. Not just of how difficult it is to get a new drug released and approved by the FDA, but That people that have something that can really work in a holistic way as a cure that would make. Completely unnecessary, some of the most lucrative drugs out there, that those things are not approved. In other words, that money and not just health is often the larger driving force.

Well, why should it surprise us? It's human nature. It's human nature. You hear, you know, within the sports world, shocking scandals about bribery. And forfeiting matches to win bets.

You think, no, they're just athletes.

Well, People are people. People do these kinds of things.

So, does the government do a lot of things in secret? Yes. Are there things done that would surprise us? Yes. Does it surprise me, and would it surprise me if these allegations were true?

Not in the least. Especially with the idea if Trump gets in, we got to bring him down as quickly as possible. But please understand me. In my view, call me calloused or what, that's fine. In my view, If the Obama administration was guilty of something like this, it wouldn't be the first administration to be guilty of something like this, and it wouldn't be the last to be guilty of something like this.

Absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. These things will happen, and there's always a justification that can be found. No, no, nothing illegal, nothing unethical, nothing immoral.

So bottom line for me, live clean. Live clean. Because somebody could be watching and somebody could be listening. And most of all, God is watching and God is listening. And He's not out to destroy us, but to bless us.

Let's live lives. Above. reproach.

So we don't have to worry about who's surveilling us or not.

Okay, immigration, we come back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks, friends, for joining us on the line of fire. Yeah, I'm looking at an article from March 20th. Michael Savage was target of NSA spying drum Corsi. Discussing this. Anyone who was prominent at that point, the NSA was going after to collect data.

This is going back in the Bush administration. And it was not necessarily at the direction of George W. Bush. They were doing it at their own initiative.

So, who knows how much goes on with security and things behind the scenes? Hey, years back, Years back, I had read that Israeli security was listening To the private conversations that Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak had in his office. See, how did they manage that?

Well, as I read it. What happened was the Israelis were able to secure a contract as cleaners.

So they were responsible for cleaning the president's office. And while cleaning the office, they installed bugging devices. Bye. Mm. That's it.

Wouldn't surprise me. Would not surprise me in the least. And then again, I can't substantiate any of this, just tell you what I read years back. Before President Hafez Assad of Syria died to be succeeded by his son Bashir, He was ill, but people didn't know that he was ill, but Israel found out in advance. by getting your urine sample.

It's like, what are you talking about? According to what I read, there was a conference of Middle Eastern Arab leaders, and Hafez Assad was attending that conference, used the bathroom while there. And Israel was able to get his urine sample.

Somehow they had inside connections there and saw that he had cancer. advanced stage of certain kind of cancer which was then confirmed shortly thereafter. I don't know exactly, I'm not a doctor, so I don't know what could be learned from a urine sample or not learned if they had other information and this further confirmed it. But none of this stuff surprised me. None of this stuff surprises me.

If the government was listening to every word I said or didn't know my name, neither one would surprise me.

Well, I mean, they know my name, they know your name. You know what I'm saying? And when I'm traveling in and out of the country, if I've just moved, they've got my latest address, and that's all self-evident and things like that. And yeah, there's a lot of information on us, but I... Who knows?

Who knows? So none of this stuff surprises me at all. And those that were just scorning President Trump's tweets, yeah, I wish he did things a different way. In terms of some of the tone and the personal attacks, but those scoring them now wondering: wow. Was he on to something?

All right, we're going to switch subjects. 866-348-7884. Ah Syria the latest news from Syria. At least one hundred dead. and suspected chemical attack in Syria.

Hospital reportedly hit. horrific pictures of people dying from what is reported to be a chemical attack, a gas attack. First responders, BBC said, found people choking in the streets. Mohammad Rasool, the head of a Syrian ambulance service, said, our team is still there moving patients from one place to another because of overcrowded hospitals. I'm speaking to my team and they're doing fine, but the situation over there is very bad, and most of those who are suffering are children.

Uh and and then then um A bomb was dropped by a plane, and then a hospital, or people were hit by debris and rubble. I mean, just an absolute horror.

Okay, so people want to flee from there. People want to flee from Syria. Understandably, there's a terrible refugee crisis. How do we respond to the refugee crisis? How do we respond as believers to the question of immigration?

I wrote an article at the end of 2015. Let me grab that here. At the end of 2015, I wrote an article on the Syrian refugee crisis and the church. Here we go. Four reflections.

on the Syrian refugee crisis. And I made four points in the article. One The government should major on security. The Church should major on compassion. Priority should be given to Christian refugees.

Muslim nations must step up their sponsorship of Muslim refugees. Four, we must guard our heart against unchrist-like attitudes so In response to those points, which I filled out in depth in the message I preached at Grace Church in St. Louis this past weekend. the congregants, those who were there. Sent in a bunch of questions to me.

So I want to. I want to respond to those questions one by one. If you have a question you'd like to add in, 866-348-7. 884. about dealing with immigrants.

about do we open our homes as Christians. How do we know who we're letting in our homes? The churches work to sponsor refugees. Should it be more a matter of doing outreach to refugees already living in our communities? Should the government just shut the door on whole nations For long periods of time, just because there might be some that come in that are deadly and destructive.

I mean, what if you knew? that one out of every 100 people That was you welcomed into your church fellowship. was a serial rapist or a serial killer. You knew that.

Well, what do you do? Do you close your doors to everybody? Do you have increased vigilance over everyone? How do you deal with it? What if it was one in ten?

What if it was one in a thousand? And it was guaranteed that among them would be that person.

So these are some of the questions facing our nation.

Okay, so here are some of the questions I was asked. First, is there a group, government or a private sector? sector. that the church can align with to help work with the lawmakers to find the middle ground you talked about. On deporting the law-breaking immigrants and helping those who are law-abiding to stay.

Although I endorsed Senator Cruz during the campaign, I Uh I I differed with his policy on immigration on this level. that there are some who have been here for many years who came in illegally. but who have been part of the American society, working jobs, working hard at their jobs. Raising their kids here, having kids here, raising their kids here. Their kids are part of our school system.

They are not, in an ongoing way, breaking our laws. They are not troublemakers. They are not the ones selling drugs and raping women and things like that. How do you deal with them? Do you deport them and then give them away back in?

Would you say, okay, there are going to be a lot of requirements put on you? You're going to have to work even harder. but we're going to give you a path to citizenship. To me, that did seem to be a compassionate thing to do. And others said, No, look.

The law is the law.

So I say do your best to enforce it better from here on. But try to work with those who have been in our country for years. You don't want to divide families, etc. And many of these people are citizens. and everything but the actual fact of it yet.

So, is there a group, government or private sector? that the church can align with. to help to work with the lawmakers to find the middle ground you talked about in deporting the law-breaking immigrants and helping those who are law-abiding to stay. Let me do my best to answer that clearly on the other side of the brake. Stay right here.

Next time change the world. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRU.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Alright, so so is... Is there a way? to work with an organization, government, or private sector.

to say right. Here is a path that there are those that have been in America. Let's say they came illegally. Uh a man came here illegally 20 years ago. From Mexico.

They got married. Then had kids here, His kids are in the school system and and somehow he's he has never become legal. Again, I don't know how these things work that someone could be here this long and still fly under the radar, but let's say that it happens.

So is he deported then? And what about his his wife, his kids? How does that work? And you know, what if the the two came in together, the husband and wife, illegally, then had their kids here, and now the kids are in the school system, the kids are 10 and 12 years old, and the couple have been working jobs steadily.

So In a case like that, I would say that the government needs to do its its best to work with Organizations that have large scope nationally and practical wisdom.

So, for example, the National Hispanic Christian Leadership. Uh Council, the witches or ex excuse me, uh conference. which is headed up by Reverend Samuel Rodriguez, who is known to the Trump administration. I would say you work with a group like that. And then from there, you do your best to say, okay, government has policies.

Let's help you implement these policies on the ground as the church, as the people of God. I think that that's something that could work practically. By the way, there was a segment done by Stephen Crowder where he pretended to be a relief organization calling liberal churches, so-called progressive churches, virtually all of whom opposed President Trump's temporary ban on refugees from seven Muslim countries while extreme vetting procedures were put in place. And he called these different churches and said, yeah, we have refugees right now. We have someone ready to be resettled from this country or that country.

And we understand you have a heart fist. Oh, yes, yes.

Okay, well, how many would you like to take? And To a person Everyone oh no, we don't actually take rib. No, no, we think it's a great idea, but no, no. We can't.

Well, how about your own home?

Well, no, it can't do that. How about in the church? But, well, no, that won't work. There's no one in the church. We'll see.

It was really quite remarkable.

Okay. Um How Excuse me, how do you sign up? To host a refugee. I would contact organizations like World Relief. or world vision, and say you are interested.

in sponsoring a refugee or a refugee family. either in your home Or working cooperatively with your church in your church community. where the church community became this family's new family. And they were the ones getting them settled in. They were the ones getting them acclimated with: here's where you go to apply for this, here's where you go for potential employment, here's where.

where you learn English, things like that, and the church community becomes the host organization, and that can be very effective, especially with whole families. Others are able to take people right in their home, but organizations like World Relief and World Vision, Christian Compassion organizations will be able to tell you if you're interested in sponsoring personally or corporately, here are a list of refugees from different countries that need sponsors. And While I was at Grace Church, I did share about what we did as a family, late 70s into early 80s, during the boat people crisis from Vietnam. We had the great joy of sponsoring refugees. Our church did we pretty much just open our doors.

It became something through the whole body. that we opened our doors, we opened our homes, if we had an extra bedroom, if we had a couch, we just brought people in our homes.

So we had families, first ones we took in, a couple with their baby from Vietnam. Then we had different men, single men, one. Two. three, I think four different ones and just was something our church did as a community for a period of years. Just extraordinary.

enriching for everyone and what a blessing to serve these people fleeing from horrific suffering. We'll be right back. Oh God of burning, cleansing flame. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. When I spoke over the weekend on immigration to church and St. Louis at Grace Church, I quoted from the book of Exodus in terms of compassionate treatment of the alien and the foreigner because you yourselves were aliens in Egypt, so remember that.

And I said it's important to use verses like this, but also to realize that the same Israelites were called to slaughter the Canaanites. In other words, when it came to dealing with the hostile neighbors whose land they were taken, Israel was called to annihilate them. When it came to dealing with more distant aliens and refugees that wanted to be part of the people of Israel, then they were to be treated with compassion. In other words, they wanted to come under the wings of the God of Israel. They wanted to be incorporated into the community of Israel.

They wanted to be part of Israel. In fact, we'd even have to abide by Israel's laws. God reminded Israel to treat them compassionately, to treat them kindly, remembering the mistreatment they suffered in Egypt.

So I find it a little disingenuous when people will quote these verses from the Old Testament and yet reject the moral authority of the Old Testament. In other words, that a left-wing liberal will quote these verses to us and we say, yeah, and you hold to the other statutes of morality in the Old Testament, sexual morality and things. Oh, no, it's just outdated. And you do agree that Israel is supposed to wipe out the Canaanites. Oh, no, no, that's horrific.

That's just some Bronze Age, violent type of deity that would order that.

Well then why are you quoting the other verses?

So let's be holistic in using these, but by all means, let's use these. An article in Relevant magazine when it came out last year, I think, or yeah, a year and a half ago, what the Bible says about how to treat refugees, love refugees as yourself. Leviticus 19, 33 and 34. Leave food for the poor and the foreigner. Leviticus 19, 9, and 10.

God loves the foreigner residing among you, Deuteronomy 10, 18 and 19. The sin of Sodom, they did not help the poor and needy, Ezekiel 16, 49. Do not oppress a foreigner. That's the verse I read Sunday morning, Exodus 23, 9. Do not deprive foreigners among you of justice, Malachi 3.5.

Do whatever the foreigner asks of you. 1 Kings 8, 41 to 44. I'd say it's a bit of an... overstatement of those verses but important verses nonetheless Leave your door open to the traveler, Job 31, 32. Invite the stranger in, Matthew 25, 25 through 36.

Love your neighbor as yourself, have mercy on your neighbor. We're all baptized by one Spirit. Other verses that are more general. But let's also remember. That in the culture of the day Homes are always open to strangers.

In other words, You're out living somewhere in the desert in a tent community. And someone is passing by, it was an ethic that you opened your house to them. In fact, years back when I was in Israel and we were seeing the Bedouin tents and things like that, we were told that I had, I believe, when I was taking Arabic in grad school, that a professor told me that you're not even allowed to ask until the third day what someone's business is. In other words, they're passing through. It's a celebration.

This person comes into your home as a guest, and they stay with you and your family, and they eat together with you, and you feast together with them. And according to the ethic, you couldn't even ask until the third day. Until the third day. By the way, where are you going? What's your business?

That would be considered unethical. That's how much hospitality was a fundamental ethic. It was not in the midst of an inner city with gangs, When someone comes knocking on your door at midnight to rob you, and you're supposed to say, oh, come on in, and here's where we keep all our valuables.

So we have to translate properly for each culture. Nonetheless, there is a great calling in Scripture to be compassionate to the poor, the needy, the suffering. And Paul writes in Galatians 6, Do good to all men as you have opportunity, especially to those of the household of faith.

So Practical questions, what organizations help churches sponsor refugees? Again, if you need to start with one. Go to worldrelief.org. You know, let's go to world vision. World relief.

God. Is very active in dealing with the refugee crisis and helping those fleeing violence and Persecution.

So if you just type in world relief and refugees, you'll get information both in terms of giving and in terms of helping in other ways. All right, let's see. Um In my message, the second point I made was. that we should give priority to Christian refugees. Questioner, your second point says priority should be given to Christian refugees.

I totally agree on a church level. In what ways can that be applied on a government level? Would the government be accused of favoring one religion over others? Yeah, well, that's what happened when the Trump administration put forth an executive order saying that priority would be given to Christian refugees or minority refugees. And the legal basis was to say that when dealing with humanitarian crisis, those that are a minority population, a persecuted minority population in the midst of the crisis would have priority, which makes common sense.

So groups like the Yazidis and the Christians, who are heavily persecuted by ISIS and who are minority communities in the countries in which they live, Iraq and Syria, et cetera, that they would then have priority. And that's what the Trump administration was doing. And my logic is, not only is that right for administration, it's right logically because we are a majority Christian nation, despite the carnal condition. much of our country. We are a majority Christian nation, and other countries are majority Muslim and some almost exclusively Muslim.

So it would make more sense for Muslim countries to repatriate Muslim refugees and for professing Christian countries to take in Christian refugees. They'd be more at home, there'd be less chance of persecution.

So the only way you could do it legally would be to argue that they would fall under a minority persecuted status and therefore should be given priority. On the church level, obviously, we can do our best to say, hey, we want to help everyone, but in particular, we want to make sure Christian refugees have a place to go. How do I feel about the wall? I assume that means The security barrier in Israel, which is about 97% fence. and 3% wall.

I feel about it the way many Israelis do. I don't like it being there. But it's a necessity. It's an eyesore. It does divide communities.

It could hurt income, tourist income and things like that, say Bethlehem. It certainly makes life more difficult. Added checkpoints and things like that for Palestinians, but it is solely the result. of Palestinian incitement, of murderous acts against Israel. uh lack of Leadership stopping those acts, lack of policing, those acts.

So it is up. one reason only, to keep murderers out. And since it was put up, the murderous terrorist attacks went down by something like 99%. You say, why the wall? The wall is there to keep snipers at.

It's strategic. That's why it's there.

So, when the Palestinian government stops naming schools after people that died as, quote, martyrs, killing Israeli children, women, and men. When the Palestinian Authority stops inciting this type of violence on TV with its rhetoric, when the leadership cracks down against it, when it doesn't reward the families of the so-called martyrs. Uh when that's the case, then uh Then The wall can come down. Ah, yeah, Matt. You're probably right.

All right, my great answer on the wall. The wall, Trump's wall. Trump's wall. Ah.

Okay, look. If This is the best way. to keep really bad people out. And this is the only way to do it effectively. Then do it.

I'm not keen on it. It's going to be just like Israel in terms of you wish it wasn't there in many ways. But if it will reduce criminals coming in. Those that are legitimate refugees are not going to be stopped by a wall, right? Those that are legitimately people in need from from Latin America coming through Mexico.

They won't stop them from coming in. Same border control you go through, same process of immigration, same hardship requests and needs, right?

So as far as I can tell, wouldn't stop anything, wouldn't hinder anything, wouldn't change anything there.

So just keep the bad guys out. the people from the drug cartels and the rapists and the murders that we all want to keep out. And I imagine every legal immigrant in America wants to keep them out as well. Every legal Hispanic immigrant in America doesn't want bad apples coming in any more than I don't want bad apples coming in from any other country to America, even from Israel. If they're bad apples, they're not to destroy a country.

I don't want them coming here.

So Is it the kind of thing I would glory in or get excited about? No. Is it something that could be a necessity? Just like prisons have walls and bars to keep criminals in.

So you've put walls up to keep criminals out? Yeah, let people come in legally and those that need to be here and deserve to be here. That's part of the beauty of our nation, a great melting pot of peoples from different cultures and backgrounds, making us one great America. All right. Thanks for getting me straight out on the wall there.

Yikes, I got a bunch more questions. I'm going to get to them all, every single one of them. on the other side of the break. 866-348-7884 is our number. Around the new time, shake the news, change the world.

Change the world. It's fire we want, for fire we please. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-342.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Let me try to read through these questions and answer them as quickly as possible. How do you address the number of illegal immigrants drawing on our government resources, food, healthcare, school, etc.? If they are here illegally.

if they are draining our country, If they are not working Productively or willing to work or be incorporated in our society, they are here simply to drain our society and they are here legally, then they must be deported. They have no business being here, and they're not trying to be part of the fabric of our society. Rather, they are just trying to get a free handout, period. If they have legitimate need, if you're not traumatized refugees coming from other countries that are unable to work or incorporate themselves into a society, you bend over backwards to help as a prosperous nation. But when someone comes just to drain you, and they come in illegally on top of that, they've got no business being here.

All right, you said the government should lead in security and the church should lead in compassion. Why can't the government also be compassionate? U.S. government already provides humanitarian aid to needy countries as an example. Yeah, my exact wording is that the government should major on security.

The church should major on compassion. And I did say in passing that, yes, the government does compassionate things, but its main role is law and order. Its main role is order. is to uphold a certain status quo of society so that you do not have societal Chaos. And to the extent that the government, for example, tries to create a welfare state to help those in need, it often ends up making their lives even worse long term by making them dependent on the state and creating a culture without work and responsibility and things like that.

So, yes, be compassionate, but let the church major on compassion and let the government major on security. How do you feel about the separation of religion and state? Do you think that prioritizing Christians contradicts this law? Number one, separation. of excuse me, separation of church and state is primarily to keep the church excuse me, the state out of the church.

It's to and it's to say you're not going to have one state religion and the government cannot interfere in the practice of religion.

So to say we're a majority Christian country So we are sponsoring in a majority way Christian refugees. I don't see that as a violation of separation of church and state, but again, legally, The only way I believe that could be done is by saying that it is a minority persecuted people in another country. and therefore they should have priorities refugee status, but the same door would have to be opened for others like Yazidis. Who are of minority persecuted status in another country? That to me would be the legal way to do it.

Do you believe that there are violent extremist Christian groups? What would you say to them?

Well, I don't I don't know any personally, but I'm sure they exist just because you have wackos everywhere. And you have wackos in every group, and those wackos can make the group as a whole look bad. You have nothing that compares. in the Christian world on a worldwide level to ISIS and Al-Qaeda. and the Taliban and the Taliban.

and Hamas and Hezbollah, and Al-Shabaab and Boko Haram and other Islamic terrorist groups. You have nothing. That compares in that regard.

So you cannot logically get. from the teaching and theology of Jesus, who was crucified. To violent extremism that say blows up an orphanage. Uh in the name of religion.

However, you could get from the teachings of Mohammed. who was a warrior, who even participated in beheading captives. that that you could get from his teaching and actions to the ISISes and the Talibans and the Al-Qaedas of this world.

So Yes, you have these extremist groups.

Some of them may be in Africa, just in the midst of a civil war, and this one's going to call itself the Lord's Army fighting against the Muslim army.

Now you've got the Christian army, and they're fighting with each other. And yes, you have some of these extreme so-called Christian identity groups in America, but they can only do what they do by denying. They can only do what they do by denying the gospel. and they have no connection whatsoever with the gospel. And of any of them active in planning terrorism and things like that, I'm not aware of that in our country, any whatsoever.

Where do we draw the line? Our high school is letting Muslims use the gym for prayer. We have mosques for that.

Well, if the school The Christians use the gym for prayer meetings. The Christians use the gym for Bible studies. that Hindus use the gym for meetings and things like that.

Well then, if it's open to one, it's open to all. If Islam, for some strange reason, we get special treatment, then that's completely wrong and cannot be. But if you're going to allow the one, you have to allow the other. How are criminal immigrants dealt with?

Well, basically, once they are arrested, They should be deported. If they're here illegally, Right? They're here illegally. And then they're caught breaking the law. Then, immediately, now you know who they are: they've broken the law, they're deported.

It's rough, tough, that's reality. Let's see. Dr. Brown, the last time you were here, you took a hard line regarding Islamic. Belief.

Excuse me. Yes, speaking of radical Muslims. I'm pretty politically savvy and I agree with you theology. They're not Christian and Corona says kill the infidel. But I have a friend who is a devout and foreign Muslim.

She helps me with Republican conservative candidates. She says terrorists are not true Muslims. First, what's your reaction to this? Second, how can I reach her for Christ? I'm loving on her and she trusts me.

As far as reaching her, keep doing that. Keep loving on her. Keep being a real friend and say, hey. You believe that Jesus is the Messiah according to the Quran. Have you ever really read his words?

I mean, we have his actual words in the Gospels. See if you can get her to read. The Gospels read the words of Jesus, find out who he really is, because the Quran does not paint a true picture. And then Uh the answer to the question is that the radical Muslims consider Muslims like her not true Muslims, and Muslims like her consider the radicals not true Muslims. As I understand Islam, both are potential expressions of the faith.

the radical expression and the peaceful expression. Are valid potential expressions of the faith. Other than your program, How Can I Get Regular News, Conservative Perspective Would Be Nice on World Events, Non-American Events? Go to the stream. stream.org.

That's where I write regularly. It is published and funded by James Robinson's organization. And it's a great place for Christian commentary on the news as well as for breakingnewsstream.org. How can judges override President Trump's executive order? This last time around, Everything I can tell, complete, ridiculous judicial overreach that must be exposed, must be combated, must be stopped.

To say, yeah, well, the executive order says this. But, you know, during Trump's campaign, he said things that the rhetoric was bad.

So, based on the rhetoric, he said, I'm going to interpret the law based on that, and I'm going to block it. Nonsense. Uttering complete nonsense, must be exposed, must be resisted. All right, friends. If you are not part of our support team, I want to encourage you to join us everywhere we go.

Folks come up to me and I'm humbled by it, often with tears, and they say, thank you, Dr. Brown, for being our voice. I mean, I hear it. I'm moved by it. We're blessed as a team to stand together and serve you day and night.

But we do it with your help. And we're praying about ways to amplify my voice to reach more and more people. But again, we need your help to do it. This month, when you become a torchbearer, we are pouring into you some sources on revival. eye-opening stuff that'll stir your heart and bless you.

great resource materials that'll minister to you.

So find out about this. Go to thelineoffire.org. Join our team today. My bottom line, let us be the people of God. Let the government do what it does.

Let us be faithful. From the repeal of HB2, the NCAA lifting its sanctions against North Carolina, to satanic strategies to stop our witness, we've got it all here today. It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Have you heard about something very positive President Trump has done?

Perhaps not. Perhaps not. Well, let me give you the news. You know that he ran as a strong pro-life candidate. I was one of those who questioned him for a while.

Is he really pro-life? What does he really stand? But he has really entrenched himself in that way and been very consistent. And his nominating of Justice Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court is in keeping with that. He's also promised to work to defund the UN in certain ways or withdraw funding from it where it crosses certain lines and work against the funding of Planned Parenthood.

Well, you may not have heard this news. Let me share it with you. This is Michael Brown. You're listening to The Line of Fire, which is, and I am. By calling and grace, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

On the stream, Annika Smith reports President Trump defunds UN abortion outfit devoted to population control. The State Department has said it will end U.S. funding of the United Nations Population Fund, a group that promotes abortion overseas. In a letter to U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Bob Corker, the State Department said it would not fund the UNFPA because it supports or participates in the management of.

program of coercive abortion or involuntarily ster involuntary sterilization. The State Department said its decision, quote, was made based on the fact that China's family planning policies still involve the use of coercive abortion and involuntary sterilization, and UNFPA partners on family planning activities with the Chinese government agency responsible for these coercive policies. Good for you, Mr. President. Thank you for keeping your word.

Hey, you know, I am not just one standing in the corner of President Trump saying, hey, hey. Everything he does, I like. Everything he does is great. You know, there are issues I have, and questions I have, and things that I wish were done differently. And there's much he does that I appreciate.

And check this out. Check this out. Uh Dennis Prager. a wise commentator He explains why he believes Trump, quote, has not only surpassed Many of our expectations, but also thus far governed in a manner more consistent. with conservative principles than any president since Ronald Reagan and arguably Calvin Coolidge.

And a story in the AP News says: from abortion to energy to climate change and personal investments. Trump is keeping his promises and methodically overturning regulations and policies adopted when Barack Obama was. President. Yeah, I think Of course, you're not going to hear that in the swirl of constant attacks against him. But I think you can make a good case for that.

All right, in a little while. We should be joined, I say should be, unless something happens on a governmental level that pulls Lieutenant Governor Dan Forrest away. We should be joined by Lieutenant Governor. Governor Dan Forrest in about 15 minutes. to talk to us about the repeal of HB two.

So North Carolina wins the NCAA championship last night, came very close, down to the last bucket last year, lost to Villanova. And they're, ooh, there's a conspiracy theory here. I'll share that with you in a moment. Oh, from an anonymous source that I cannot leak. Yeah, I'm having fun, but I'll talk to you about that on the other side of the break.

But the NCAA said, okay, we'll do business again. We'll bring our events back to the state of North Carolina. And I imagine the NBA and some of the other bullies will follow. Was this compromise? Did we sell our soul, sell our principles for money?

Is there more to the story that we're missing? Lieutenant Governor Dan Forrest has been a champion of conservative values. We want to hear straight from him. That's coming your way just in a few minutes here. Oh God of burning, cleansing flame, send the fire.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. This happened a few days back and I just didn't talk about it on the air.

But I'm going to do it. Johnny, clips one and two will play in a moment. There was a story on the Federalist last week, Sean Davis. Washington Post lies about lawmakers' biblical reference, then refuses to quote a single word he said. Then others have said how quietly the Post was trying to just rewrite the whole story.

All right, so after the presidential election last November, New York Times executive editor Dean Bakwet gave an interview to NPR in which he admitted that his journalists simply don't understand religion. Quote, we don't get religion. We don't get the role of religion in people's lives. He was correct. and explained just how the reporters involved don't understand religion, especially Christianity.

Though he was specifically speaking about New York Times reporters, his comments clearly also applied to the Washington Post, which on Friday morning, last Friday, accused a Republican congressman from Texas of claiming that the Bible forbids the unemployed from having food to eat. The headline from the Washington Post couldn't have been more clear. GOP LAWMAKER The Bible says the unemployed shall not eat. Shocking, right?

Well, judging by the Washington Post reporting, either this lawmaker is a real jerk. Uh God is a real jerk for hating people without jobs, or maybe even they're both jerks.

So Here's what the newspaper wrote about Representative Jody Arrington, Republican from Texas. One lawmaker is citing a godly reference to justified changes to the supplemental nutrition assistance program. Representative Jody Arrington recently quoted the New Testament to question the strength of current work requirements. The biblical passage, 2 Thessalonians 3.10, was a rebuttal to one of the hearing experts' witnesses, a representative of the Jewish anti-hunger group. He quoted Leviticus.

It's also a familiar refrain to anyone who's watched past debates about SNAP. This is the food. Uh organization's Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program as justification for cutting some adults' SNAP benefits. Hey, if you won't work, you don't eat.

Well, let's listen to what actually happened here. Let's listen to the hearing. We'll start with clip number one. I did hear, Mr. Protus, your opening remarks where you quoted Leviticus, I believe, and I think that's a great reflection on the character of God and the compassion of God's heart and how we ought to reflect that compassion in our lives.

There's also the scripture tells us in 2 Thessalonians 3.10, he says, for even when we were with you, we gave you this rule, if a man will not work, he shall not eat. All right, so he was first saying, yeah, I absolutely affirm. passages in the Bible that you quote about leaving uh leaving gleanings for the poor.

Alright, so when you're going through your vineyard, you're gathering your grapes, when you're gathering your crops and harvest, leave stuff intentionally for the poor.

So they can come in afterwards, and that's what Israel was commanded to do.

So he's saying, yeah, that's great.

So we do that. But we also have this ethic from Scripture. If a man doesn't work, he shouldn't eat. In other words, if people intentionally are not working, they're not looking for work, they're just standing around idly. Then You don't work, you don't eat.

That was just simple.

Okay. Here it continues. Clip two. I think that every American, Republican or Democrat, wants to help the neediest. uh among us and I think it's a reasonable expectation that we have work requirements.

I I I think that's I think that gives more credibility, quite frankly, to SNAP. And so, my question to you, and again, if I missed the conversation, I'd I apologize, but Tell me what is a reasonable and responsible Work requirement. As part of the SNAP program. Right, so Mm-hmm. Does this make sense to you?

It doesn't make sense. Does it make sense to say, yes, we want to help the poor? Yes, we want to help the needy. Yes, we want to be compassionate, but if you are, you have a food distribution program, a government food distribution program, supplemental nutritional assistance program, do you have any work guidelines? If someone is able to work and they're not working, do you have any guidelines about that?

And for this, he gets credit. Crucified by the Washington Post, GOP lawmaker, the Bible says the unemployed shall not eat. Yeah, isn't that absolutely? Wild. I'm not going to read the rest of the article, but you get enough of an idea.

Hey, just. Look at things carefully. The headlines are not necessarily accurate. Can I tell you that when I write an article? That the editor at the various websites where that article's posted, and there are quite a few where my articles are posted, they might at their own discretion change the headline.

They might do that. That's That's a normal thing. And it may not have been the exact way that I worded it.

Now, if they want to change the wording of the actual article, aside from grammatical corrections or typos, then they'll talk to me about that. But the title, the headline might not even be mine. And you might be reading and thinking, wow, that's a little bombastic headline. Maybe it wasn't mine. Maybe it was.

But then many headlines in themselves are totally misleading. And and the news puts it like that. And you can read the story. It's like, what that's that's just their interpretation of what happened. That's just their spin on what happened.

And when you actually go look at the video for yourself, or the footage for yourself, or listen to the audio for yourself, or read the original article for yourself, or see the original quotes for themselves, you think, Huh? That's not the impression I got. I use this as an example. months back, let me use it again. During the presidential campaign, Jeb Bush was doing a small kind of town hall meeting.

And I see these headlines: you know, embarrassment for Bush, has to tell the small crowd to clap, or whatever it was. And I thought, oh. Yeah, poor guy, just going from bad to worse, and how embarrassing. That's what the headline said, and that's what the story said.

So then I I clicked on the video to actually watch it. And it was I actually thought it was kind of cute that he had a a small group he was speaking to. And his typical low-key style, he wasn't like in this, you know, get the crowd all psyched. Yeah, yeah, yeah, nothing like that. And as he's as he's Talking.

He Uh He makes a point. And then says, hey, now would be a good point to clap. You know, it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, good point, good point. You ever had a pastor do that? Can I get an amen?

Or, like, hey, you just missed a good point to say amen, and everybody laughs. I took it as a cute, kind of harmless thing, and just because of his delivery. not because they didn't agree with what he was saying, but because of his delivery it wasn't like punctuated in such a way that's going to draw a response.

So that's his cute way of saying, Hey, that would have been a good time for applause.

So I sent it to Nancy, and she felt the same way. In other words, had it been me... I wouldn't have looked at it as embarrassing. Had it been me, I wouldn't have looked at it as one of those moments like, oh, gosh, my campaign is just stuck in the mud. It would have been kind of one of those cutesy things that you do.

But the way it was reported was such that if you don't take the time to watch the video, and to be honest with you, when I see news reports and only read transcripts, because it's a lot shorter than watching videos and stopping to do that or sift through a half hour video clip to find a two-minute quote, then I might have come away from a wrong impression. Or Or you might have gone to that video with preconceived ideas. Because of which because of which you came away with the wrong impression.

Well, because that well, it must have been embarrassing, and that's the way it was reported. You see it through those eyes.

So look, we We've got to be really careful.

However we identify conservative or liberal on the right or on the left, however we come to our convictions before God, We have to be really careful not to look at the world around us with blinders on. We have to be really careful not to look at the world around us as influenced primarily by political commentaries. or preachers or teachers. or talk show hosts. We want to think things through on our own.

If I articulate what you believe and you say, yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. Mike Brown, you're saying what I believe.

Okay, I hear that all the time. Yeah, you're putting into words what I feel. Wonderful. That's my joy. That's why I'm introduced as your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

I'm simply encouraging you, whether you agree with me or differ with me, to think critically. to look at things the way they are presented. Come on, headlines shout at you. And that shouting sometimes is all we get. We are a soundbite generation.

All you see is that tweet. And that tweet is 140 characters and it's making a statement about something that may be a complex news issue.

So process it. Look at it. Go beyond the headline. Go beyond the rhetoric. go beyond the sensationalism.

And Look at the reality. And then look at the facts for yourself and ask yourself. Am I being biased? Am I just reacting pro-Trump, anti-Trump, pro-Obama, anti-Obama? whoever the political leader is, pro this cause, anti-this cause, you just push my button and you get a reaction out of me, or am I a thinking person who processes the information?

Now, we may come to radically different conclusions in the end. But I assure you, I'm going to process the information. I'm going to think through the opposing views as best as I can. And then I'm going to come back with a response that hopefully is holistic. All right, speaking of hopefully, if all goes well, Lieutenant Governor Dan Forrest will be calling us momentarily.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Well, we were told that unless The government was in session requiring Lieutenant Governor Dan Forrest's presence that he'd be calling us right at this minute. We're in touch with his office again to see what's going on. If you want to call in, well, you can't see your Governor Dan Forrest, but if you want to call in, our phone lines are open, 866-348-7-884. Michael Brown here, delighted to be with you.

Okay. So a few reflections on the repeal of HB2. But then with other legislation that has gay activists and their allies outraged. And of course, the repealing of the bill has conservative activists outraged. The NCAA.

Has said, okay, they're going to pull their boycott of North Carolina. And North Carolina Values Coalition statement says this. The NCAA's boycott of North Carolina achieved what it wanted, the repeal of HB2, proving that bullying works as long as you meet the demands of the bully So, we've got Dan Forrest on the line here. He has been a champion of conservative values in the state. He's only the second Republican lieutenant governor to be elected in North Carolina, and after the 2000 election, he became the first Republican in the state's history to be re-elected to office.

So, he has stood tall and stood loudly and clearly with our conservative values, among other things.

So, there's a lot of controversy now with the repeal of HB2. Lieutenant Governor, I know you're a busy man. Thanks so much for joining us today.

Well, thanks for having me on today. I hope you're doing well. I am. Thank you. Could you give us insight from the inside?

Folks are outraged on both sides. Conservatives, liberals are outraged. Questions are, are our bathrooms safe? Are the doors now open for predators and things like, you know, all these concerns coming up. Could you give us your take as a conservative Christian in government?

Sure.

Well, I'll certainly do my best. I think first, let me back up a little bit and just kind of let you and your listeners know that I didn't think there was anything wrong with House Bill two as it was written. I thought it was a good bill. I spent a year defending it all over the country and around the world, and I still feel like it's a good bill. I felt like the process by which we came about trying to repeal HB two was predicated upon extortionary tactics by the NCAA and the NCA are the NCAA, the ACC, the NBA and some folks in corporate America.

And the narrative that was created by the media and by the left is really where the negative influence and all the negative ideas about HB two came from.

So it wasn't from the bill itself.

So got it. Excuse me. That being said. I think the bill that was crafted. The attempt was to get back to a place where we were prior to Charlotte's ordinance being crafted in the first place.

But that place also doesn't establish policy for Bathroom usage in North Carolina. It just says the state has the authority to do that.

So I think really we're in a position of kicking the can down the road a little bit, saying, time will tell whether this was a good thing or not. Trevor Burrus, Jr.: I certainly appreciate your candor. And yes, there was corporate building and yes, media misreporting. And I had quoted you just a few days back regarding SB6 in Texas, where you said what the economy in North Carolina is thriving, and perhaps the loss was one-tenth of 1%.

So it was really the way it was portrayed in the secular media.

So let's go back to this. The folks like PayPal and Bruce Springsteen and the NBA and NCAA, none of them had a problem doing business with North Carolina two years ago. when things were just as they are now before the Charlotte City Council pushed their bill, and then suddenly everything became terrible to go back to the way it was before.

So were things bad? Did the Charlotte City Council provoke a fight to get this kind of outcome? I think really what happened in Charlotte back in the day was they were just trying to push the leftist agenda that was going on around the country, that being twofold. One, this whole notion of transgender usage of bathrooms, which never had been a problem. But two, protected class status.

And that was, I certainly think, the bigger goal, protected class status for the LGBT community, of which the majority of states in America as well as the federal government don't recognize that.

So really, North Carolina became a target for the rest of the nation based on the left's false narrative about what our bill did. And so the Bruce Springs things and the like and the corporate America, they never read the bill. They didn't know anything about the bill. They were just going off what the human rights campaign told them to say and told them to do.

So what do you make of the fact that although Governor McCrory lost and there were some other factors in that, of course, Roy Cooper greatly outspent Governor McCroy with funding from HRC and other groups like this. But the fact is Republicans held the two houses. What does that say about North Carolina values to the nation?

Well, I think the folks in North Carolina have noticed a lot of things. One, that we've done a great job with the economy. We've got the economy back on track. It's certainly one of the best economies in the country, if not at the very top. We're at the top of all the list of best places to live, best places to work, best places to raise a family and the like.

Everybody knows that. North Carolina has always been a great place, and it's we're rebounding. We're doing a good job of getting everything back on track, lowering taxes and so forth. This issue about bathrooms was a distraction to a lot of people, and it will probably continue to be a distraction to a lot of people for some time. But it certainly in the election was not a reflection against Republicans by any means.

As you said, picking up a seat in the Senate and only losing one seat in the House, maintaining supermajorities. And so overwhelmingly, the people of North Carolina thought that the legislature was doing its job. Yeah, absolutely. What would you now say to voters who are disappointed? Obviously, the bathroom bill is a minor thing in the overall scope of things.

There was the feeling of being bullied by the Obama administration, telling the schools, for example, unless you allow a 15-year-old boy to play on the girls' sports team and use the girls' locker room, if he identifies as a girl, you could lose federal funding.

So these things became even bigger issues than you might imagine. But what would you tell voters moving forward? What's your hope? What should we be majoring on as we seek to do what's best for the state?

Well, I think we'll keep majoring on the things we've been majoring on: the economy and jobs and education. You know, making sure that North Carolina is a great place to raise a family and do business, as it has been for quite some time. Those are the things that we chose to focus on until we got distracted by the other things. I think, you know, though, I mean, I was disappointed as well. To your listeners who may have been disappointed in the outcome of what happened the other day, I was disappointed.

Like I said, I had fought very hard to keep HB2 because I thought it was a good bill, and nobody ever told me why it wasn't a good bill.

So I think. Going forward, the hope is that this thing actually does blow by, that we actually do go back to the way things used to be. I don't know that that's going to happen in America. I think this LGBT battle that we're seeing all over the country about protected class status and extra special rights for a group of population that now wants things like bathrooms opened up and those types of things. I think that battle is going to continue.

And we'll see here in North Carolina. With this latest legislation, we kick the can down the road. And I wasn't happy about that, but that's what happened. And it'll be an issue again on the 2020 ballot now because of that. And we'll see what happens.

It'll play out. I hope I'm wrong. And all that. I hope it goes away and we get back to the way it used to be. All right, thank you so much for your time.

Keep up the great work. Many are standing with you. Thank you so much. Have a great time. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr.

Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRU. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

We are about to have a fascinating conversation. With my colleague at the stream, John Zmirak. You don't want to miss that. Michael Brown, welcome to the line of fire. All right, we have an internal.

source right here within our broadcast network. who is advancing a theory a conspiratorial theory. regarding Last night's NCAA final.

Now, you'll remember. that last year North Carolina made it to the the finals and lost. and the last shot of the game. Mm-hmm. this year.

North Carolina one. was it by six points over Gonzaga.

Now What's the difference between the two years? Last year, HB2 was enforced in North Carolina, the so-called Bathroom Privacy Act. And the NCAA said that we will not allow any of our games, our final games, anything like that. Sweet 16, the NCAA champions, said we will pull our games. And other athletic organizations said, we'll pull our events from your state because of this.

And North Carolina lost.

Now, North Carolina bowed down to the bullying of the NCAA right in the middle of the tournament saying you've got 24 hours to repeal HB2 or 48 hours this crazy thing. And if you don't do that, then we're not going to bring our games there for another several years. And the legislature caved and they had some compromise with it. They got people on both sides upset, conservative activists, LGBT activists all upset on both sides. But the NCAA now said, okay, that was enough.

They said, we're not really happy with it. We would have wanted to see more, you know, but this is the way things were a few years ago, and we were happy to work with them a few years ago.

So they put things back to the way they were.

So we'll go on working with them. And then... North Carolina won.

So the conspiracy theory is that the NCAA orchestrated the events, not allowing North Carolina to win last year, but allowing them to win this year. Oh, okay, it's just an in-house staff conspiratorial joke. I did think about that. Yeah. North Carolina lost last year in the closing seconds.

HB2 is in fourth.

Now this year, HB2 is removed and they win. in the the what final minute or two of the game. Anyway. The NCA Board of Governors said this. The NCA did not lobby for any specific change in the law.

The Board of Governors, however, was hopeful that the state would fully repeal HB2 in order to allow the host communities to ensure a safe, healthy, discrimination-free atmosphere for the championship sites. Could somebody explain to me? How making bathrooms and locker rooms effectively gender neutral? Provides a safe, healthy, discrimination-free atmosphere. Could somebody out there please explain that to me?

While the new law meets the minimal NCAA requirements, the Board remains concerned that some may perceive North Carolina's moratorium against affording opportunities for communities to extend basic civil rights as a signal that discriminatory behavior is permitted and acceptable, which is inconsistent with the NCAA bylaws. In other words, North Carolina has said that no No city. A county can pass a law giving special rights to LGBT individuals up to 2020 when you have the next election.

So they're not happy with that. They say that that's inequality. We say, no, it's against special rights. They go on, however, We recognize the quality championships hosted by the people of North Carolina years before HB2. Ah, ah, a line of san a line of sanity in the midst of the statement.

What do you know? Yes, everything was fine in the years before the Charlotte City Council passed its radical bill, which was undone by HB2. Everything was fine. Charlotte City Council started all the problems. And this new law restores the state to that legal landscape, a landscape similar to other jurisdictions presently holding NCAA championships.

What do you know? Wow. We'll continue, changing subjects with my guest, John Zmirak, on the other side of the break. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. My guest, John Zmirak, is a fellow contributor. in your editor at the stream stream. or He also wrote an article, wrote one a few days before I did about Mike Pence being criticized for living by his moral guidelines, his marital guidelines.

I tweeted out today, Trump is terrible because he's a serial adulterer. Pence is terrible because he won't dine alone with another woman other than his wife. And then leftist logic. Sleep around like Bill Clinton. What a guy!

Have strong moral guidelines like have strong moral guidelines like Mike Pence? What a jerk. And because Because the media can't find dirt on Mike Pence, it looks like they're attacking him for being too clean. I want to interact briefly with John about that, but his newest article, written together with Jason Jones, the screw tape option. Three new ways to thwart Christian witness today.

Hey, John, welcome back to the line of fire. Thanks, Michael. Good to be on.

So, very briefly, your take on the criticisms of. Of Mike Pence and one journalist, a lawyer, saying, well, what he's doing is illegal. It's discrimination against female employees if he won't have a meal alone with a woman other than his wife. You had an interesting take on it from the perspective of liberal thinking. What was your view?

Well, I think it's shock what really shocks me is not liberals carping at a conservative or making fun of someone for practicing the virtues. I mean, that's something our Lord told us would happen to us. We would be mocked we would be spoken ill of, we would be slandered for following the gospel. But the idea that they would invoke the government That this is the illegal. We're going to make it illegal for you to live out your marriage vows.

It's just one more turn of the screw. of a secular government that is increasingly intolerant of the existence of the Christian family. and of believers in America. I mean, this woman's actually saying it could be illegal.

Now I don't know if that's criminal law or a civil tort. I'm not a lawyer. But she's saying if he doesn't grant equal access to all employees, whether they're male or female, including on his own free time, he is violating discrimination law.

Now if that's the case, then discrimination law needs to be changed. It needs to be paired back. There has to be some kind of freedom of association in America. And it's interesting that freedom of association is only being applied one way. Men's clubs are being closed down at colleges.

Harvard is trying to close the last few male clubs. Cornell destroyed its fraternity systems. All male colleges have virtually disappeared. But all female organizations are fine. All female.

Clubs are fine. uh it's so half the population is in is being denied its first amendment right of who to associate being free to associate who to associate with That's being put under control of the government.

Now, when you take a whole set of rights away from one class of people, there's a word for that. That's discrimination. After the Civil War, the South took away gun rights from black people, but not from white people, violating their Second Amendment right.

Now the Liberals are taking the First Amendment right away from men. And what happened when you got your PhD in English literature? What basic advice did you get, spoken or unspoken? Oh, they weren't even worth applying for a teaching job because every single job advertisement I saw. said they were looking for a woman or a minority.

It might as well have said no Iris need apply.

So I didn't even apply. I knew I would be at the very bottom of the barrel, plus, the fact that I. I had published conservative things. and Christian things I knew, even if they ran out of women and minorities. I would be the last man on earth that they would hire.

Mm-hmm. Extraordinary. But look, that's the reality of what we're facing. And we are the epitome, you and I, as white males and conservatives and Christian believers, we're the epitome of white privilege in America. And therefore we should censor ourselves.

We have to pay for what other people's ancestors did. I mean, my family were Irish. We weren't even in the country when slavery happened. Your family was Jewish. You were never part of privileged elite.

And yet, we're being punished for what some slaveholders did one hundred years ago. or what some segregationists did fifty years ago that we had nothing to do with. This is the essence of group generation. Just desk. And group justice is no justice at all.

It's like just let's take twenty hostages and shoot them because we don't like what the people in this village did. It's completely inimical to the whole Judeo-Christian ethic. Yeah, it absolutely is. All right, let's switch gears. Your latest article, The Screw Tape Option, Three New Ways to Thwart Christian Witness Today.

First, for those who are not familiar with C.S. Lewis' screw tape letters, just give a brief overview so they can understand what your angle is here. Sure.

That's a great put by C. S. Lewis, which is from the point of view of a demon, telling other demons how to tempt people's souls.

So sometimes it's fun. And enlightening to look at things from the inside-out point of view, from the devil's point of view, if you will.

So I point to four different ways That Christians can fail to live out their witness in America today. Um and the way I would say the most clear way we can live out that witness is by being in solidarity with the most vulnerable people, who Christ called the least among your brothers. He said, when you do something for them, you do it for him.

Well, who are the most vulnerable people? In America right now, or in the West, right, or in the world. Unborn children who have absolutely no legal rights and can be cannibalized for parts, as they are by Planned Parenthood every day.

Okay. Religious minorities who are persecuted for their faith like the Christians and the UZ Ds in Iraq and Syria. And religious believers who are being persecuted by their governments in the West. who might lose their job or their liberty as the alternative to violating their conscience. Think of people like Kim Davis.

But, you know, the the Christian Florence, the Christian Bakers. And you know, if they did if Vox magazine had its way, Mike Tempest. would be prosecuted for living out his Christian beliefs and preserving his marriage. These are the people really at risk. These are the people we need to step out and be in solidarity with through the pro-life movement.

through the movement to protect Christians in the Middle East and other minorities. and through defending religious liberty here in America.

So if you were the devil and you wanted to stop people From saving their souls, stop people from serving the least among us, what would you do? you would find ways To distract and addle the brains of Christians so that they don't do what Jesus told them to do.

Alright, so how how would you go about doing that if you were the devil? Right.

Well, there are I I lay out four plans. The oldest one that's been around since the New Testament, I call it the Pharisee Plan. That's where you get people to focus on. squabbling over little details of religious observance. And focusing on preserving their own external righteousness.

and not caring about their neighbor, except insofar as they criticize their neighbor's tense. That's pretty old. That's, you know, our Lord rebuked that. But then there are other new things the devil keeps turning out through sometimes well-meaning people. He gets well-meaning people and he leads them astray.

And that's where I go into three things. The first one is this new controversial book by Rod Dreyer, an old friend of mine, called The Benedict Option. Where he says that people need to withdraw from society At various times, he said they need to stop voting Republican. He said that specifically in Newsweek magazine in 2015. They need to stop being involved in politics and focus on building up Christian enclaves and subcultures.

within that will be sort of separate from society and insulated from the cultural decay that surrounds us.

Now, of course, that's a good question. That doesn't do much for the unborn. Or for religious liberty, or for persecuted Christians, or really for anybody except The people who are doing it. Right, all the ones we're supposed to reach, the ones we're supposed to shine the light to and bring the good news to. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, so so first, it forgets about all the people we're supposed to reach. and makes our faith basically just a matter of self-preservation. And then secondly, right, so if we withdraw from the culture wars and from voting and from standing, then we lose all our rights. Who's going to keep our Christian enclaves safe?

Well, that's right. I mean, you know, he Rod Verde talks about Saint Benedict and what he did after the fall of the Roman Empire, but you know what? Nobody was persecuting Christians where Saint Benedict was. There were barbarians, there was chaos, but nobody was hunting down Christians. There was no powerful central government that was going to try to dictate how much religion could be in a home schooling curriculum.

It's a completely different situation. We're not in something like after the fall of Rome. We're in something much more like Diocletian's Rome. Where Christianity is active. By the government.

you're not going to get your little enclave. You know, Big Brother's going to kick down that door.

So that's one of the options that I point out as a snare and a delusion and a bold new dead end in Christian living, as I call it in the article. Then there is the seamless garment. The seamless garment is Is a slogan coined by left-wing Cardinal Bernadine in Chicago in the 70s, and sometimes it's called the whole life movement. Um What that does is it equates all threats to human life as being exactly the same.

So Yes, abortion is wrong, but so is air pollution. And so is handgun violence. And so is global warming. And if you don't agree with the left, on the solution to everything. Besides abortion, you don't get to oppose abortion either.

All right, stay right there. We're going to finish with the seamless garment. And then what is the victimist gambit? What Satan's strategies might be through well-meaning people to keep us from focusing. on our real commission here in this world.

We'll be right back. God of light, hear our cry, send us fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. I'm speaking with John Smirak. He has been a guest before with us on The Line of Fire. He is a fellow contributor, one of the senior editors on the stream, stream.org. You can read his latest article written together with Jason Jones, your pro-life leader, The Screw Tape Option, Three New Ways to Thwart Christian Witness Today, in particular to stop us from helping.

The most needy. babies in the womb, Christians persecuted in countries like Syria. And even Christians in America who are suffering the loss of their rights and freedoms. Again, when someone puts a gun to your head and says, I'm going to kill you, you know that's your enemy. When someone says, Hey, I'm with you, I'm here to help you.

Let's just look at this differently. You might end up being paralyzed by someone that seems well-meaning, but the words are not words of life from above.

So, John, you are in the midst of describing the seamless garment, which basically says, Hey, We care about life in general, so global warming is just as important to us as abortion and saving the baby whales, just as important as saving the baby humans.

So how do we get lulled to sleep in the midst of that?

Well, I I think it's It's a form of relativism where you don't make distinctions between things. You don't make distinctions between like, okay, too many people die in auto accidents every year. And a lot of children are killed in abortion.

So, if a politician is promoting seatbelts and airbags, maybe that makes up for the fact that he's pro abortion.

Well, there's a huge difference between people dying in accidents, which is just part of living in our fallen world. or people may be dying because of the negligence of others. and people being intentionally killed. For hire by doctors with the full support and funding of the U.S. government.

Those are radically different things from a moral perspective. But if you convince people to make their minds intentionally fuzzy, like pouring sugar in the gas tank of a car, you can train them to not make these obvious distinctions. And when and that is all that this whole life Seamless garment movement is. It's an attempt to stop people from making obvious. moral distinctions between things.

And really, it's just the seamless garment is just a bulletproof vest. for left wing politicians, especially left wing Catholics like the Kennedy family, and then now Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden and Tim Kaine. These people all say, well, the church calls us to protect All human life. And so, you know, we're going to expand funding for Medicaid, and that will include abortion, but it will also include breast cancer screening. And hey, look at this, a squirrel.

Well, it's it's sleight of hand. It's like what a magician does when he whirls a n a handkerchief around so you don't see that he's palming the sticking the rabbit in his puppet, you know? And this gets revealed when you do stand up strongly for pro-life and suddenly you get this vehement opposition, and that smiling face becomes, that smile becomes more fangs than anything. Lastly, the victimous gambit. You say this plan is the most Ambitious.

So explain what this is. Yes, the most ambitious and and the most Overtly diabolical. There was a news story yesterday on the terrific site, LifeSight News. It's said that there's a dissident Catholic group called Catholics for Choice. that is funded by George Thorough.

which has come out in defense of funding Planned Parenthood. And this is their quote, our Catholic social justice tradition compels us to stand with the poor and the most vulnerable in our society. What do they mean? Cecile Richards, who owns seven earns seven hundred thousand dollars a year, Planned Parenthood, which gets half a billion dollars in taxpayer funding, the clinic owners, who is she talking about? She's certainly not talking about the unborn children.

She's talking about that that group is using Christian language in the most perverse and diabolical way to say that it serves the vulnerable to wipe out their children through an organization, Planned Parenthood, that was created by a white racist eugenicist who wanted to wipe out whole ethnic groups of people and who wanted to sterilize everyone below a certain IQ.

Now this is an example of victimism. Victimism is where you You don't try to identify who out there is a victim and actually help them. You try to identify with the elite. with the popular position, with the fashionable cotton. And then you gain Brownie points by being an activist for whatever the UN and George Soros and the US government is behind.

What you don't look for is the actually vulnerable people. You pretend that you're a victim. If anyone criticizes you, for saying that global warming is more important than abortion. or for equating handgun violence with genocide. Suddenly, you're the victim and they're the bully.

It's an incredibly perverse way. Of feeling morally justified while you're actually complicit. in crimes. Extraordinary. And what a tactic.

You have the LifeSide article: Catholics in good conscience support access to reproductive health to the people who need it, and Planned Parenthood provides it. Catholics support the right for women to decide on their own health care based on their own conscience without interference, and Planned Parenthood helps us do that.

So we're just standing with these people in their need. Hey, John, as you keep sounding your sounding the alarm and getting your voice out. And speaking in a prophetic way to the nation. Do you feel like people are listening to you? Do you feel like your words are falling on deaf ears?

Or do you feel like people are getting it and responding? You know, I can't really judge. I I get emails, I get things, people thanking me saying you put it the way I knew this at a gut level, but you made it explicit and helped me make the argument to my friends. Um, but of course, there are there are a lot of people with hardened hearts. who don't want to know the truth.

Who, when you present them a perfectly logical argument, they blow a bunch of emotional smoke at you. And I can't judge their hearts. But God will. Yeah. And you know, John, what I find, though, is that others watching can see that.

I did a debate. about 10 days ago with an Orthodox Jewish rabbi, and maybe he didn't have adequate time to prepare because he was filling in for someone else that was sick, or maybe he just didn't have the ammunition, but it's very clear that he wasn't responding to my points and kept raising a straw man argument. But we found that people who were there overwhelmingly saw that and noticed that. And I think that when people do just blow smoke, when they're presented with logical argument, respond with emotion, I think that people do say, of course, yes, hearts are hard and others have their eyes wide open. But I want to encourage you to keep speaking, keep getting your voice out.

Because, one, it is articulating what others feel. Two, it's giving them information they never thought about. And three, it's giving people something to think about and it's revealing. and demolishing false ideologies.

So keep it up. We're confident in the end truth will triumph. Thank you, Michael. God bless you and all your listeners. God bless.

Thanks so much. All right. Always a joy to speak with John and always a joy to read his columns at the stream. Hey, friends, I have got some terrific news for you.

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And hey, we can put aside $1 a day or $2 a day to stand with you and $30 or $50 or $60 a month. We want to stand with you.

Well, we've got a great. Thank you package for everyone joining us this month to stand with us some great life-changing resources we want to pour right back into you and then stand with you as you stand with us on a monthly basis.

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Yes, yes, yes. Of course. Truth will ultimately triumph. Hmm.