From Trump's Visit to Israel to Jewish Believers in the Land

So President Trump is heading to Israel. What does it mean? That and much more. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

So what makes Thoroughly Jewish Thursday unique on radio?

Well, It is not just to focus on Israel and the Jewish people from a traditional Jewish perspective. It is not just a Christian interest in Israel and the Jewish people. It is a Messianic Jewish perspective, which, by God's grace, I trust is especially enlightening for you, our great listening audience. Michael Brown, welcome to the broadcast, 86634Truth. If you have any Jewish-related questions for me of any kind relating to Israel and the Jewish people today, relating to the Hebrew scriptures, the Hebrew language, related to Judaism, Jewish tradition, even related to Islam, to the extent that I can help you with something that is always intersecting with Israel, give me a call, 866-34Truth.

If you are a Jewish listener and you don't believe in Jesus, you have questions about him being the Messiah, by all means, give me a call. Today, we are going to have a special focus on Messianic Jews and the Land of Israel. We've got some special interviews coming your way that we're really excited about.

So stay tuned for that all through the broadcast. And We will comment about President Trump's visit to Israel and the Middle East and reports that, well, I'm not going to move the embassy to Jerusalem right now. Are those reports accurate? Would that be a blatant breaking of a major campaign promise that he made and something that indeed is in the Republican Party platform and has been on the books beginning with President Clinton back in the 1990s? And there has been delay after delay from President Clinton to President Bush to President Obama in moving the American embassy to Jerusalem.

We are in relations with almost 100.

Well, over 190 nations, or thereabouts, almost 200 nations America's in diplomatic relationship with, and yet. Israel is the only country in the entire world where we and the other nations involved do not have an embassy in the capital designated by the country.

So that is major. Of course, there are a lot of other things having to do with the president's visit to the Middle East and the question of a Palestinian state and negotiations with the Palestinians. We'll get into that today. We'll take your calls. I want to give you an update on a number of other things of interest to you.

Major movie coming out one night only next week. We'll share more of that with you. In fact, in fact, um, Johnny, grab clip number five. I just want to play this for you. The movie In Our Hands.

Select Theaters showing Tuesday, May 23rd only. Jewish Retaking of East Jerusalem. A moving Powerful docudrama. I watched it. I was impacted by it and endorsed it.

Just listen to this. From CBN Documentaries comes a new film. In our hands, The Battle for Jerusalem, the extraordinary true story of the Six-Day War. Our goal is clear, to wipe Israel off the map. For six days in 1967, surrounded by enemies on all sides, Israel stood alone.

The time has come and changed history to begin a battle of annihilation. In our hands, The Battle for Jerusalem. In select movie theaters for a special one-night event Tuesday, May 23rd. For theaters and tickets, go to inourhands1967.com. All right, did you get that?

Go to In Our Hands 1967. Dot And there, you can get more information and hopefully get to see this. Trust me. It'll be worth your while. I knew a lot of the story, but not the way it was shared, the detail, the degree of loss suffered along the way.

And of course, we all know the significance of the reuniting of Jerusalem. What a great time for President Trump to announce we're going to move our embassy. Let's pray for God's will to be done. We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Those are the sounds of Michedim, a Messianic Jewish group from Israel now touring. in the states. Later in the broadcast, we'll be speaking with a key Messianic Jewish leader from Israel who's in the States as well. But right now, I want to focus on this exciting group. And here's some of the most amazing part of the story.

There were two young ladies in this group, Miketa. They appeared on national Israeli television, the equivalent of American Idol or America's Got Talent or something like that. And had an opportunity to use that as a platform to share their faith in Yeshua, the Messiah of Israel. I mean, this is major. When you've got maybe 20,000 Jewish believers in the land, and only a smaller percentage of that native-born Israelis, and now you have these.

These uh Israeli young women using this national show watched by the nation to express their faith in Jesus Yeshua. As Israelis, as Jewish women, against something unprecedented, this is all part of the band Meketim, now on tour in the States. And we're joined by James Hilden, lead singer and part of Mechetim. Hey, thanks for joining us today, James. Thanks so much for having me.

So where are you guys right now? We're right now in Portland, Oregon. All right, and how are you traveling?

Well, we came over here by plane, of course. We were invited by a group of actually Russian speaking church network who wanted us to be part of their conference.

So we just kind of piggybacked off of that and booked ourselves congregations, Messianic congregations around the West Coast as well as a couple of churches.

So we're getting around in advance. And yeah, that's what we're doing. Got it. How many are you? We're eight people in the group at this moment.

There's five official members of the band, and then we've got a keyboard player with us with his wife, and they're from Poland. His wife plays the saxophone. And we've also got Brigitta, and she's one of the women who was on this Israeli Idol show. And she's not officially part of the band, but we're doing a tour together. She's got some of her own material, and we're backing her up.

Now, James, your dad's name is very well known as a Christian leader from Canada, serving in Jerusalem, pastoring, a respected leader in the land of Israel for many years.

So that's where you spent much of your life, correct? That's right. I was born in Canada, and I moved to Israel when I was four years old with my parents, and they went there to found the King of Kings community in Jerusalem, an international church but with a messianic focus. And yeah, I've lived there since I was four years old. I spent a couple of years in Canada after high school.

My Israeli friends went to the Army. I went back to Canada basically to move back there because I wasn't an an Israeli citizen or anything like that. But as soon as I got to Canada, or maybe after a few months, I started to realize that really Israel was my home. And then the first opportunity I got, I moved back to Israel, got my residency there, and that's been home ever since. Incredible.

So give us a perspective, having grown up, spent most of your life in Israel. What's happened with Jewish believers in Israel, especially Israelis? How is it different now than when you were a kid?

Well, when I was a kid, I think it was a much smaller and more insulated community that people didn't really know about. It might have been this kind of mysterious group, and even a group that nobody would have even have heard of. But these days, basically anyone in Israel, thanks to some of the things that Shai has done and Bergita have done by going on television, everybody pretty much knows about it, and it's becoming he stigmatized with the years. Yeah, amazingly so. And obviously, Jewish believers have served in the Israeli army and been part of the society, but pretty much for the most part under the radar, and now some major national exposure.

So tell us first what happened with Shai, the show she was on, and what she said. Yeah. Sh Shai was on a show. It's called Hakocha Vaba, which means the next Star. And that's kind of, it's like Idol, and it's just as popular as Idol would be.

And she went on there and she got pretty far in the program. She performed in front of the judges a few times. And when they do the kind of background story on everybody, when they got to her, they went with her to her Messianic congregation. It's called Teferat Yeshua in Tel Aviv. And they showed her being part of the worship team, praying in Yeshua's name, and she just basically had no shame and no fear in telling Israel this is.

what I believe. I am Jewish, but I believe in Yeshua as my Messiah. Yeah, and it was remarkable. And the way she presents herself, you know, it's kind of cool for TV. Her style of singing was this edgy, folksy kind of thing.

So it wasn't some stereotypical thing. You're just going to criticize some religious person or some fanatic. She was very much an Israeli. And I remember watching this, you know, watching the video clip, and I thought, wow, this is amazing. And just her openness about her faith.

So, all right, so then what happened with Brigitte? The same a similar thing happened with Brigitta. Brigitta's situation was a little bit earlier, and she was the very first one.

So I don't know if she made any kind of proclamations about it, but it was something that was well known to everybody that she was that she was a believer. Yeah. All right.

So what are you doing with Mikedem in Israel? What's happening in the music scene in Israel? And then how is Yeah, go ahead. No, that's right, you can finish. Yeah, and then just curious to know what you're seeing on this tour, how how God's using the group.

Sure. Um Our band has kind of flowed out of Yeah. I guess you could call it a resurgence of Hebrew language worship music that's been going on in the past ten years or so. I've been involved with a production called Praise to Our God. It's a series of five different C Ds, live worship C D's.

And we've just kind of been chugging along for years making these albums in order to kind of provide content for people to use in the Messaging congregations and their worship. And just a few years ago, we said, you know what, we keep getting invitations from around the world, and we see that people around the world, and not just in Israel, are getting into this kind of music.

So let's just put together a band that we can travel all. all around the world, put out some of our own records and really expose the world to what we're doing, but also to maybe have a a project that's a little bit more focused. And what I mean by that is that, you know, worship music sometimes it can take all kinds of different uh Different kinds of expressions.

Some of them are more charismatic.

Some of them are a little bit more sentimental.

Some of them might be more traditional. We said, you know what, let's just go back to the source. Let's write music only from the scriptures.

So take the original words of David, the original words of Isaiah, and set music to that, music that we feel is culturally relevant, which basically means music that we like. And let's let's Let's do it in the way that It most speaks to us, and let's hope that Israelis come along with it and as well as people from around the world. And so far it seems to be working. Yeah, and there's even even Christians around the world are attracted to Hebrew. You know, I'm often asked, can I pray the priestly benediction in Hebrew?

You know, and so when you join it with now singing scripture in Hebrew. Written by believers and then with the Holy Spirit upon it. I mean, that's a powerful combination, isn't it?

Well, we hope so. And are you seeing more open doors with young people? Obviously under 16, there are issues about proselytizing in Israel, but say the older teens, the college age, the kids coming in and out of the army. Is there more openness to the message of Yeshua now in Israel? Is music helping to be a bridge?

Well I I I certainly uh experienced a lot of uh anecdotal Evidence that it's happening, that we get all kinds of We've had people send us videos of them playing along to our music, just nonbelieving Israeli people that are maybe groups of believers that heard about our music, and it's it's striking a chord with people. I don't know what the extent of it is because we don't have any research to back on, but anecdotally, it seems to be happening. Yeah, and anecdotally is actually going to be the best evidence because it's not the kind of thing you can research. It's hard to quantify. But the individual testimonies, and then look, Israelis singing the songs.

That's the power of the song. Get them to sing the songs, the truth of the word. And then when they connect with you and hear your story and testimony, how beautiful it is. Hey, if folks want to find out who you guys are, what you're doing, where you are online, what's the best way to connect? Best thing for them to do is just to go to our Facebook page.

It's facebook.com/slash mekedim. And we spell that with a Q instead of a K.

So it's M-I-Q. E D E M. And there we have links where you can download our music and you can see where our tour dates are. We've got another week and a half of concerts around the west coast.

So if you're in that area, check us out there. All right, so friends, M-I-Q-E-D-E-M, Miketam at Facebook. We'll post that on social media, tweet it out as well. And James, may God be with you and the team. Tell everyone we're rooting for you, praying for you.

And hey, if you ever need a drummer to sit in, just give me a call, all right? You got it. I'll keep that in mind. Thank you, Dr. Brown, for having me.

All right, God bless. We're going to be playing clips from Miketim through the show. In fact, let's lead out of this segment right now. Clip number eight, Johnny. Let's play this just for the next few seconds until we get to our break.

Go ahead. She Come on. It's all. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

What a delight to my ears. Great. Messianic Jewish movement. And music written by Israeli believers From the word, you heard before the break Psalm. 121 being sung.

Those were the words beginning with a song of ascent in Hebrew. And now another song from Me Kedim to connect with them. Go to Facebook and then type in, search for Me Kedem, which is from before, from of old. M-I-Q-E-D-E-M. M-I-Q-E-D-E-M.

Mikadim, connect with them there. This is Michael Brown. It is Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. We will get to the President's visit to Israel shortly. 866-348-7884.

If you have a question for me, remember, if you have not heard, Our Hands Are Stained with Blood, my most translated book, most translated book I've ever written, came out in 1992, The Tragic Story of the Church and the Jewish People. I've heard probably from more people around the world how that book has impacted them more than any other book I've written. It's been continuously in print since 1992. It is now the number one book in the category of Judaism on Amazon e-books. You can get it for 99 cents.

I don't know how long this is being done. I don't know how it got done, the publisher, Amazon, whatever, but I got notified about three days ago.

So we're letting everyone know. ninety nine cents on Amazon. That's the one only place you can get the e-book for that price. Our hands are stained with blood. I strongly encourage you to get hold of it.

want to remind you That an ultra-Orthodox rabbi, counter-missionary, Rabbi Yusero Blumenthal. He and I have been in different levels of dialogue since the early 2000s. And I knew from day one of our talk that he was not one to want to do a public oral debate. It just was not what he felt comfortable with or felt the best way that he could process things and respond. And although we've had several hundred pages of interaction via email and things like that, I've not been able to respond to everything that he's written, the hundreds of pages of critiques he's written of my writings.

So I've responded to some, but only a small portion because I haven't been able to do the written debate.

So we've been trying to find a way. If you just want to do an oral debate, if I don't have time for a written debate or wonder if everyone would follow a written debate over a period of years, what could we do?

So we went back and forth with ideas, and then he came up with the idea of simultaneous videos that we would post, both giving a 20-minute presentation on what we believe about the Messiah according to the scriptures. Then a month later, each posting a 20-minute rebuttal to the other, and then a month later, a response to the rebuttal.

So you have an hour of our best interaction side by side. I thought it was a great idea. And our first videos were posted this Monday at noon simultaneously on our respective YouTube channels.

So if you haven't watched it yet, go to askdrbrown.org just look in the digital library latest videos askdrbrown.org and look for my presentation on the real jewish messiah and then you'll see in the description a link to rabbi blumenthal's you can watch mine you can watch his and then a few weeks from now i posted the rebuttal he posted the rebuttal and i'm quite confident that god will use this to draw people to the true messiah yeshua jesus our messiah and i deeply appreciate rabbi blumenthal for doing what he's doing and this has been our goal from day one i believe it's been his goal it's certainly been my goal get the information out get the facts out so people can evaluate For themselves, prayerfully with an open heart and an open mind. 866-34Truth. Let's take some Jewish-related questions. We'll start with our friend Nick in Alberta, Canada. Welcome to the line of fire.

Hi, Doc Brown, how are you? Hey, doing well, thank you. Awesome. Yeah, I've got a a question about ancient Israel. But just quick, there is that a couple weeks ago, you read an article.

It was a response from a Coptic church. to the Palm Sunday attack. And I really liked it. I like to read it to my church. Uh where where can I find that article?

Well, I found it on the stream.

So, what I'd suggest is you go there and what I would type in is stream.org and then have a space and type in the word Coptic. or POM, something like that, and hopefully that that specific article will come up. But that's where I read it from. It was a summary, excerpts of the statement made by a Coptic leader of forgiveness and love reaching out to the Islamic terrorists that had slaughtered their people. Oh, okay.

Okay, great. Uh uh powerful.

So, my question today is: when we talk about the ten northern tribes, being invaded by Assyria, brought away, Samaritans brought in their place. And then two tribes being left at the bottom there that would eventually be taken by a Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon. I often hear it as Judah and Benjamin. But I was looking at a map of ancient Israel with the different tribes, and I realized that around the area of Beersheba, there's the tribe of Simeon. And I I often don't hear them mentioned.

And I'm just like some clarity on that. Was it sort of really three tribes in the south? No, no. Simeon was part of the the ten northern tribes. You're going to have you know slight border overlap.

The two southern tribes, the kingdom of Judah, that was only Judah and Benjamin, with Levi mixed in among them. And then of course you had Levi mixed in among the ten northern tribes as well. But Simeon is part of the northern kingdom. Once the separation came, that was always the case. And the southern kingdom was Judah and Benjamin.

And then both of them had Levites mixed in their midst. And then, of course, many of those from the northern tribes were scattered and lost, just assimilated in the nations as divine judgment. But others were preserved. Others were part of those that stayed in northern Israel. And it wasn't the Samaritans were brought in, it was people from other nations were brought in.

And the accusation was that the Samaritans were the mixed breed of the people from other nations mingling together with the people of Israel and leading into idolatry and things like that. The Samaritans say, No, no, we are the true Israelites. We have always been faithful and been the true Israelites and kept to our traditions all through the centuries. Of course, they're very tiny today, but they still do exist. And then others fled south.

So, that the southern kingdom of Judah ultimately had people from different parts of the ten northern tribes.

So, as we refer to Jewish people today, A majority would be descendants for the southern kingdom, Judah, Benjamin, and then Levi, and a small minority would be remnants of the ten tribes among us.

So that's why Paul would speak of the twelve tribes of Israel, or Jacob, James would speak of the twelve tribes of Israel, because they're represented among the Jewish people today. but the numbers of the ten northern tribes are smaller because of what happened historically. Oh, okay.

May maybe it's the map that I've got that's not accurate. It has around the area of Beersheba, you know, which is south of Jerusalem and Hebron. And it has that drawn as as it the tribe of Simeon. But this is their territory higher. Uh yeah, it's it's certainly I'd have to look at the map you're looking at, which is difficult over radio with me in the States and you in Canada.

But for sure, Simeon was not part of the Southern Kingdom. Never was.

So it's either the way the map is drawn up, the way the borders are presented, or something else that is misleading there. But that much I can certainly tell you. All right, wish I could look at the map with you, but thanks for the call, Nick. God bless. We'll be right back.

God changed the world. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRU. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

There's more music from Miketem. I'm just looking at their upcoming tour. They're just in Seattle. Vancouver Portland looks like today. Loomis, California, near Sacramento, San Francisco, Irvine, San Diego.

This is all later this month.

So, find out more, go to Facebook and check out Miketa, M-I-Q-E-D-E-M. Welcome to Thurly Jewish Thursday. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you. 866-348-7884. With any Jewish-related questions that you have, we go to New Orleans.

Anton, welcome to the line of fire. Thank you, doctor Brown. I appreciate you taking my call. Sure thing. It's been a while since I've heard much of you.

I heard some of your sermons back when you were in. Pensacola and was really blessed by one in particular. Others can, you can't. And I don't know if you remember that one, but it really spoke to me. I certainly remember the thrust of the message because it's been with me for many, many years.

But thank you, sir. My question was, I hear people refer to a future temple that's going to be built and referring to it as the third Campbell. And but as I read the scriptures, Solomon certainly built a temple and Herod built a temple. But didn't Nehemiah build a temple also? Wouldn't a future temple be a fourth temple?

Ah, a great question.

Now, Nehemiah Ezra, Nehemiah, with the help of others, yeah, they built the second temple. Herod beautified the second temple and expanded it. Herod didn't build the third temple. Herod expanded and beautified it. It would be basically like: you built a house, and then I came along and expanded it.

And stretched out the property and redesigned it, but it was the house that you built.

So the temple in which Jesus walked, the temple that's spoken of in the New Testament, the temple whose destruction Jesus prophesied, that was the second temple, the one that Haggai 2 refers to, that When the people saw the temple, it was nothing like Solomon's temple, and God said the glory here is going to be greater than the glory of the first temple. And then Herod came along and spent many, many years working on the project. That's what's mentioned in John 2, all the years he spent on it. Jesus saying, destroy this temple, I'll raise it up on the third day. But he was talking about the temple of his body, and the Jewish literature misunderstood him.

So, yeah, same second temple. They did not change that in terms of the basic temple. What they did was vastly expand the temple complexes and put a ton of money into beautifying it. And that's what made it such a majestic building and series of buildings. But same second temple.

Well, I appreciate that clarification. I wonder if I could add to that question a little bit if you have time. Yeah, real quick. Um you know t um Today, it seems like in some of the archaeological things, some people seem to think that we're. The temple mound is where the Roman legions were stationed and not the temple.

How do you feel about that? That the temple was actually in a different location. I I've seen some of the arguments for that, sir. that the the ancient temple was not, say, where the current dome of the rock is, the the large Islamic mosque built there, or the al-Aqsa mosque nearby, is not By where the western wall is, the kotel called the wailing wall, which would have been an external wall from the temple. It's not in that area there.

I think Seen arguments to that effect, watched some things arguing for it, but I don't think there's any substance to it, sir. I think archaeological excavations actually prove the opposite, that this was the site of the ancient temple. I think we have enough tradition going back to confirm that as well. I think even the spiritual battle over the current location and the fact that there's a giant mosque there further confirms that this was the place of the ancient temple.

So I've read those arguments. don't find inconclusive. Nonetheless, I am not an archaeologist. All right, thank you, sir, for the call. Give us strict to always do what's right.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

That's it. More music from Michetim Messianic Jewish Band from Israel, now touring in the United States. Welcome to Thirdly Jewish Thursday, Michael Brown. Delighted to be with you, 866-348-7-884 with your Jewish-related questions.

So, do you remember at the joint press conference with Mahmoud Abbas and President Trump that Mahmoud Abbas talked about how they are raising their children in an environment of peace or aspiring to peace? And of course, many of us raised our eyebrows when we heard that because we know how much incitement to violence there is in Palestinian propaganda and how much ongoing demonizing of Israel there is and even celebration of terrorists. You say, Well, look, Menachem Begin, he was part of Irgun. That was a terrorist group that was trying to take down the British in Palestine. And he ends up becoming a prime minister.

And Nelson Mandela, he was a freedom fighter in South Africa in jail. And he ends up being one of the great peace leaders of our day.

Well, the question is. did Menachem Begin when he was fighting against the British control of what was then called Palestine, and as Jews trying to flee the Holocaust were not allowed into Palestine and ended up having to go back to Europe and die there. Was he targeting innocent children? W was the Irgoon targeting Innocent men, women, and children, or were they fighting against British soldiers? And say the famous bombing of the King David Hotel.

Were there fatalities? Did they not call several times and say there's a bomb in the building? Leave. Did they not do their best to do that? In other words, they were fighting a war against the British at a point of breaking.

You can argue whether it's right or not, that was the best course of action or not. That can be discussed and argued. But you're not talking about someone who's just engaging in wanton terrorist attacks.

Now, I have in front of me, how many pages is this? Yikes. It is quite a few pages, eight pages long. A special report from Palestinian Media Watch. Palestinian Authority schools named after terrorists and Nazi collaborators.

compiled by Itamar Moricis. Uh i just go to to palwatch.org. To find out more, palwatch.org stands for Palestinian Media Watch. 28 Palestinian Authority schools named after terrorists. Three Palestinian Authority schools named after Nazi collaborators.

Uh how about Dalal Mukhrabi? She led, and I'm reading this, the most lethal terror attack in Israel's history. Known as the Coastal Road Massacre in 1978, when she and other Fatak terrorists hijacked a bus on Israel's coastal highway, killing 37 civilians. Twelve of them children. and wounding over 70.

I referenced this uh a couple weeks back.

Well, she has three schools named after her. Three schools. Uh one in Gaza. and and two in Hebron. all girls' schools named after her.

What message is being conveyed? Abu Jihad. Another well-known Palestinian terrorist. He has five schools named after him. And and on and on, Hamas' terror leader, Ahmed Yassin, One school is named after him, the martyr Ahmed Jassin School for Boys in Jenin.

I mean, I just read one after another after another. It's eight pages long. With less here, and then Nazi collaborators, all right? A war criminal. Hajameen al-Husseini.

He has a school named after him, the Al Amin al Husseini Elementary School. Uh On and on and on. Amin al-Husseini was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem at the time of the British Mandate. During World War II, he moved to Berlin, where he was a Nazi collaborator and an associate of Hitler. Al-Husseini was on Yugoslavi's list of wanted war criminals and was responsible for a Muslim SS division that murdered thousands of Serbs and Croats.

When the Nazis offered to free some Jewish children, Al-Husseini fought against their relief and as a result, 5,000 children were sent to the gas chambers. And he has a school named after him. The PA has named two schools after Nazi collaborator Hassan Salome. Uh a girls' school. A junior high school and elementary school.

How in the world? How in the world are you going to have schools named after Nazi collaborators, named after mass murdering terrorists? of children, women and men. And you are going to work for peace with your neighbor, Israel, when kids are raised in that kind of environment. This is a stark reality.

And I pity I pity the Palestinian children whom I look at as victims themselves. of this hateful ideology. 866-34-TRUTH. It does not mean everything Israel does is perfect. It means that Israel is not naming their schools after the murderers of Palestinian children and women.

and innocent civilians is not doing that. It is not doing that. 866-348-7884. Let's go to California. Yehuda, welcome to the line of fire.

Hey, Doctor Brown, how are you? Doing well, thank you. Yeah, I can just imagine a US dignitary visiting the Al Husseini Elementary School. Yeah, really. Not not going to happen.

So the That's not why I called, but uh Thank you for the information from uh Palwatch. My question was Can you help me understand Which Characters in The Five Books of Moses. knew Jesus or understood Yeah. The nature of Jesus. Right.

to what extent did God's people In the time of Abraham or Moses or Isaiah or Jeremiah, to what extent did they? Have an understanding of the Messiah, of Yeshua, and then specifically within the first five books.

So up through the time of of Moses, To what extent did they have an understanding of Yeshua? On the one hand, There's no question that they did not have a full understanding. that they did not have a full revelation of of what was coming. And even if you spoke about, for example, someone dying on the cross for the sins of the nation, what was a cross? Crucifixion didn't exist as a punishment then.

And we know explicitly that Peter tells us that the prophets that prophesied before, so say someone like Isaiah or Jeremiah, that they would deliver these prophecies And they would think, oh, okay. When is this going to happen? How is this going to unfold? 1 Peter 1. Concerning the salvation of the prophets who prophesied the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully.

Inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Messiah in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Messiah and the subsequent glories. It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves, but you, and the things that have now been announced to you through those who preach the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things which angels long to look into. They're wondering, okay, where is this? When is this going to unfold? How is this going to happen?

And God said, No, this is not for you. This is for future generations. Here's what we do know. Just a few explicit testimonies. We do know that Jesus said, Abraham saw my day and rejoiced.

In John the eighth chapter, and in Galatians the third chapter, that Abraham believed the gospel. But what did he believe? I believe he believed the seed of the gospel, namely that through his seed the whole world would be blessed. And when Yeshua says he saw my day and rejoiced, does it simply mean he was given a promise of redemption? Was it foreshadowed in the Akedah, the binding of Isaac on Mount Moriah in Genesis 22?

And through that, he had a foreshadowing of God giving his one and only Son and Him being raised up from the place of death. It could mean that. It could be in a vision that he saw him and rejoiced, but I don't believe he would have had full revelation. John 5, Jesus tells us that Moses wrote about him. But I don't believe that Moses had a full understanding of exactly who the Messiah would be and what he would do.

But rather. And if that's the case. then we have a real problem Because if Moses doesn't know and he conveys on to the Jewish people, And the Jewish people are told That if a prophet in Deuteronomy 13:2, if a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, comes to you and tells you to follow a God that we do not know. Not only do you not hearken him, But this is my test to see if you love me and only me. Ah, in which case throw out.

Yeah, in which case throw out.

So let me ask you. Bronier.

So you put yourself Put yourself at fine.

Okay, it I'm I'm assuming Are you Michael? Your Hebrew name is Michael? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure. Hey, stay stay right there. And by the way, I had a hunch you'd be going this direction, so of course I gave you an honest answer.

But I'm going to bring you back on the other side of the break, okay?

So stay right there. And um Let me say this. The fact Moses didn't have the whole story didn't mean that he didn't point us to the whole story. He certainly did. No.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

All right, I want to go right back to Yehuda.

So sorry I had to cut you off at the break. Go ahead and make your point, and then I want to respond, okay? Sure. So I have the words that says If a profit comes to you. Whomever that prophet is.

and says to follow God that you do not know. We don't know. As as you said, we Moshe does not know the true nature of a triune God. Oh, you didn't ask that question. You hang on, you didn't ask that question.

You didn't ask about the nature of God, did you?

Well, but I know what the nature The nature. The nature of j God According to you, Is that There is his son Jesus. who will eventually Take the place. of all the commandments or fulfill the commandments. That's the very nature.

If I have to have a relationship, with God or with anybody. I have to know who my relationship is with. I have to know something about me, and I have to know what's expected. Yeah. who God is, He tells us who He is.

Alright, so so it hits the one that And since he gives us the rules for the relationship, I'm trying to find a place. where it says because What I know is What what what the Jews have done, and and I don't even we don't even have to talk about Isaiah and Ezekiel. And the God makes it so clear in so many ways what it is that we're supposed to do. And not only that, We have to pass it on, and I can only pass on what I know what I was told. Yeah, great, great.

So I'm happy to argue my points from the five books of Moses. Very happy to. Very happy to. So let's start here. We know that Moses actually saw God.

It says explicitly in Numbers 12, he saw the Tumunah, he saw the form of the Lord, right? Correct. And in Genesis 18, Hashem, the Lord, appears in human form with two Malachim. That's easily demonstrated just by reading through the text into the 19th chapter. And then at Sinai, In Exodus 24, It it says that seventy four people Moses, Aaron, Nadav, Abihu, and seven of the elders saw the God of Israel.

And yet you can't see God. That that makes me wonder about some things. We see that God fills the universe with his presence, and yet He's revealed in a way that people can actually see. And and then at other times his presence is Ruach's Is there a cloud or filling the Mishkan so that Moses can't enter because the glory is there? That's the God I believe in.

That He's an infinite, eternal God. He's the ant self. but that sometimes he reveals himself in visible form And that's what he did through Yeshua. Nothing new. In other words, the same thing there.

is is is now fulfilled. When Messiah comes, there's nothing different. There's only one Savior, one God. One deliverer. We don't look to a man, we look to God.

But it's a God who can reveal himself in different ways. That's the God I believe in. The God of Tanakh, the God of Chemush, the God of five books of Moses.

So no I'm is that the God you believe in? Yes, I believe in the God of the five books of Moses, and there's nowhere where it says As a footnote or as a side note. By the way, none of these commandments you will be able to keep. because at some point you're going to become a defective Um race of humanity, that you can't fulfill any of these commandments, so my son's going to die for you. It doesn't say that.

And if it did, I would say, okay, that's what I'm supposed to teach to my children and they have to and down the line. If it doesn't say that here, I have to look at that and say, okay, so now somebody is explaining to me A man but not a man.

Somebody I know but I don't know. One But complex in unity really one of three or three of one. Tell you what, let's just talk scripture, though. But hang on, let's just talk scripture, okay? Everything that you denied is there, is there.

It's in Scripture. It's in our Bible. Everything you said isn't there, is there. For example, In what's written in Genesis, the eighth chapter, why doesn't God set another flood? Because every thought of the human heart is evil continually from his youth.

Okay. Why do we have Yom Kippur? Why do we have an atonement system? Why do we have blood sacrifices? Why do we have the goat for Azizel, the scapegoat?

Because we constantly sin and fall short. What does Moshe prophesy? Just talking five books of Moses now: that we've rebelled during his life. How much more are we going to rebel afterwards?

Now we keep reading the rest of the story. We fail so miserably. That the second temple is destroyed, 2 Chronicles 7, it was established as a Beidzevach, a house of sacrifice. It's now destroyed.

Okay, because of judgment on us, and because of our sin and our shortcomings, God says in Jeremiah 31. That Because we failed, God's covenant was perfect, we failed. He'll make a new covenant, not like the covenant at Sinai. And that will put his Torah within our hearts, and there'll be forgiveness of sins. Why wasn't that taught?

Why wasn't that taught? Why Moshe is up? at Sun Eye for forty days. F C? Forget this this essential nature of God, the person the Yeah.

Yeah. Eternal being, the creator, he forgets. Yeah. this root of Christianity. It's not the root of Christianity.

I'm just quoting scripture to you. I'm quoting Hebrew Bible to you. He can't teach it correctly. He did. He did.

He taught it through the sacrificial system. See, here, what you're missing is the Torah itself teaches us. It's a triune God. It's nowhere. What you have is a God that cannot be seen, that is seen, a God that is.

Revealed in a human body and yet is transcendent, and a God who moves invisibly by his spirit. You have all of that in the Tanakh. I I believe I believe Yeah. Completely religiously honest and sincere. in your belief in them.

But you have to be intellectually honest. And understand That there are seven or eight contradictions that you just said, and probably many more, in talking about Jesus as a sacrifice, but he wasn't really a sacrifice. His death was an atonement. The righteous that can, you know. Basically Atone for the the fort.

Certainly, you know, Jewish tradition teaches what I'm telling you. intellectually honest. And faith Bed. You're really you have to work very hard And what I have to do is just read the Word of God and it tells me exactly what my relationship is. T tell you what.

No, it's very simple and clear to me. And it's uh wonderfully, gloriously over all right, but but hang on, I wasn't raised in an environment where I was brainwashed. I was not raised in the environment.

Okay, wonderful. All right, so so here's tell you what, because I'm out of time, but I would love to talk. If you can call back earlier on a Thursday in particular, earlier in the hour, Uh And normally I don't have guests for this length of time, but I have a guest all the way in from Israel I'm about to talk to. I would love to continue because I hate to interrupt. We're in the middle of things.

It's just I'm out of time. And we can start with: just show me the oral law. I mean, without the oral law, you don't have Jewish tradition. And Moses never mentioned it, never mentioned it, never hinted at it, never pointed towards it. Any of the alleged tents are completely made up.

Everything was based on the written Torah, the written Torah alone. And the oral law often contradicts. I mean, takes a verse, turns it upside down, and makes it a pillar. You show me where it tells me how to properly slaughter a cow. Ah, you just misread.

You completely misread Deuteronomy 12:21. But a great, so you're going to deduce it, you're going to find it, you're going to discover it. I'm just going to quote scripture.

So, God willing, we will continue the discussion. I would love to. I want to expose my listeners to what you have to say, and I want to expose you to what I have to say. Let's commit to follow the truth. Thank you, sir.

for this great call. We're going to have a great conversation with a Messianic Jewish leader from Israel right now on the line of fire. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Boy, I just had a terrific call from a sincere, religious Jew from California named Yehuda. I gave all the time we had to it on this early Jewish Thursday. I've asked him to call back. I hope we can continue the discussion. I love the questions he was asking and the gracious way in which he challenged me.

And of course, I want to challenge him right back.

So hopefully, we'll get to continue that conversation. But we've got a brand new hour. Normally, I have to go all the way over to Israel to see this man, but he happens to be in the States, Avi Mezrakhi. He is a pioneer Messianic Jewish leader in Israel, born in Tel Aviv to a Jewish family. We will get more of his story, but he is the founder and executive director of Duguit Messianic Outreach Center in Israel.

Hey, Avi, welcome to the line of fire. Shalom. All right, we need you real close to the mic, and I know you are a soft-spoken gentleman, but uh what are you doing in the States now?

Well, I'm speaking in a couple of churches here in the Charlotte area. And then I go back home.

Okay, so just a short little trip. All right, why don't you just greet our listeners in Hebrew? Um Yom Tov e shalom nikulam. All right, there you go. And if you want to figure out what he said, learn Hebrew.

Now, I wish you a good day and shalom and peace. Avi, how long have you been following Yeshua? Since 1984, that's 33 years ago. 33 years ago.

So you were raised in a Jewish home, but you were not a believer? That's right. All right.

And where did your parents or grandparents come from? My parents were born in Bulgaria. My father, as a little kid, he wore the yellow star and he survived the holocaust. Really it's a beautiful story of my parents. Yeah, tell us more.

As I said, my father was born in Sofia, Bulgaria, and as a little boy, the it was the time of the Second World War. And when the Nazis came into Bulgaria, all the Jews had to wear the yellow star. But then they uh wanted to collect all the Jews, so he and his family had to run uh leave Sofia, the main capital of Bulgaria, and they went to Plovdiv, which is another city, small city, and then he ran to the forest and basically w he lived in the forest with his brother and joined the partisans. Amazing.

So he was preserved, survived. They make their way to to to Israel. And at what point did they get to Israel?

Well, after the war was over, he came back home. He was happy to see his mother and brothers, but his dad died.

So he he lost his dad during the Second World War, and I never met my grandfather. And then in nineteen forty seven, he took a ship from Europe to Israel, but at that time the British mandate was there. And although the UN made their resolution in the 29th of November 1947, they said they needed six months to collect and pack their bags and leave till May.

So during that time, he and his brother took a ship from Europe to Israel. But at that time, the British did not allow Jews into the country.

So they caught him like the Mapilim, these illegal ships, you know.

So they caught one his ship and they took him to Cyprus and put him in the island of Cyprus in detention camp along with thousands of Jews. Who were put in that detention camp in Cyprus, and he was not allowed to come into Israel.

So he made it into the country of what year? 1948, right after the Declaration of Independence.

So so friends, this also gives you a context for some of the human suffering involved and why there was such opposition to the British mandate. He comes in in 1948, and when does he meet your mom?

Well, as soon as Israel declared independence, Israel sent the ships to bring the Jews from Cyprus and other countries as well. He came to the land, he was so excited, kissed the land, and the first thing they told him: Welcome home, here's a gun, go and fight.

So he fought the independence war first. Really? Incredible.

Friends, this is hardcore Israeli history. My guest, Avi Mizrahi, when you're in Israel, you must visit Duguit and Tel Aviv. We'll be right back. Angel World O God of burning cleansing. Flame.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Hey friends, welcome to The Line of Fire. This is Michael Brown. That was the beautiful music of Mekedim, Messianic Jewish Israeli group. If you want to see who I'm talking to, this is radio right now, here's where you go. Go to dogeet.org, du G I T dot.

Dugit, D-U-G-I-T dot org. And you'll see a picture of my guest, Avi Mizrahi. He's got his hands extended. He's looking at you. He's saying, come visit us.

in Israel. Your father survives the Holocaust in Bulgaria. Flees Bulgaria is put in a detention camp in Cyprus by the British mandate. Israel gets its independence the next year, 48. He lands.

Great, welcome here. Here's a gun. Fight, because we're about to be slaughtered.

Okay, so he has to fight now in the war of independence.

Now what? Yes, so he fought the war of independence and when he uh the war was over and he finished his duty to his country, he came back home because his family came from with the ship and they settled in Jaffa. Jaffa Tel Aviv. And in Jaffa, all the The Jews from Bulgaria and Turkey, and also Greece, who spoke Ladino, Spanish, Sephardi, that's where they settled in Jaffa. And um and that's where he came home to be with his friends.

And then my mother, she was his neighbor.

So they that's how they met. And I fell in love and got married. And your mother came from... She was born in Bulgaria, but her family, when the Nazis came to Bulgaria as a little girl, they fled to Turkey, so she went to Istanbul, to Turkey, and they took the ship from Istanbul to Israel in 1948.

Now, when we brought our tour groups over to your facility and to the house of prayer, it's an exciting thing. We squeeze everybody in one room, and you, of course, strategically have the curtains down.

So we're in Tel Aviv, right? And you tell the story and all this, but no one really realizes that the curtains are down until you open them for a purpose.

So Israel then... Versus Israel now. I mean, obviously, you have to see the city and see Tel Aviv and see what's happening. But could you paint a picture for me of what Israel was like then compared to now? Wow.

Well, what I do is I mean God has been good to us that we have this beautiful site on the twelfth floor where we can look over the whole city. And I tell the believers who come to pray, I said, Can you imagine 108 years ago, 110 years ago, There was no Tel Aviv, it was all sand. We'll all be standing on sand. There was the old port of Jaffa during the Turkish Ottoman. But those Jews who left um Russia and Eastern Europe because of the programs, they came to Jaffa They came out the city walls to those sand dunes, and they said, On these sand dunes, Will build the first Jewish city that will speak Hebrew.

And that's how Tel Aviv started.

So, what year was this? 1908, if I'm not mistaken. 1908, extraordinary.

So there is a vision, and even some of the restoration of Hebrew, I mean, a lot of it wasn't even religious-based. It was just God was doing something somehow. All right, and out of that is this ultra-modern, thriving city, also worldly city that needs the Lord. And that's where you're planted. All right, so your own journey.

How do you come to faith? Oh wow.

Well, I was born and raised in a Jewish home in Jaffa in Tel Aviv. Uh we were not religious. But I will not say we were secular because we were traditional, just celebrating the feasts and everything. And and then when I finished school, high school, I joined the army, not compulsory, but goes in Israel to the army, the boys, three years, girls, three years.

So I joined the Israeli Air Force. I was four years in the Israeli Air Force. And when I finished my duty to my country in 1984, I said, Okay, I'll go to the States. And but I was lost in sin, and I want to go to every discotheque in town, every nightclub. I had plans to go to Las Vegas and gamble and all this, blah, blah, blah.

And this is not uncommon for young people once they're out of the army. Go out and do it. That's true.

Okay. That's true.

That's what I did. And I came my first stop was to visit my sister in in Gainesville, Florida. And she uh she and her husband, they went to the University of Florida there. And um I didn't know she is a believer.

So after a couple of days it was Sunday and I was asleep. She got dressed and she wakes me up and tell me I'm not. Avi, my brother, please get dressed, go with us to church. And I literally said, Excuse the moi. Excuse me, what did he say?

This is completely out of the blue. Yeah. What's wrong with you? Are you a Mishuka? Are you crazy?

What are you doing? Yeah. And she was very gracious and said, It's not what you think. Come and check it out. She gave me a challenge, and that's how the story starts.

She gave me a challenge. I love challenges. I was in Israel Air Force. Give me a challenge. I will go and take it.

So I said, I'll go and check it out.

So I took my Hebrew Bible, the Tanakh only, and I went with her to this church and I was in shock. Because in my mind as an Israeli, when you talk about church, we think about historical churches with monks and nuns and statues of Mary and statue of all these pagan gods. And that's how we think. But I didn't see that. There were a First Baptist Church in Guelph, Florida.

They had a beautiful choir, beautiful church, and the singing and the music was so beautiful. that really something happened in my heart. when I saw true believers worshiping God That's where it started. All right, so God brings you to himself. He saves you, gives you new life.

What did your parents think about that? Wow Well, I'm blessed and I'll tell you why, because uh my parents are believers. And it starts really years ago with my mother My mother, when my father and mother got married and My sister was born. I was born after my sister. Uh it was in the fifties.

Um My mother was um Very depressed. In the 50s, there was no food, it was depression. It was just after the war in Israel. And she thought about suicide. Really.

And what happened is she took the first baby, my sister. and she s sat outside the synagogue. And this synagogue was Rabbi Daniel Seon The believer. All right, so Rabbi Daniel Daniel Tsion was the leading rabbi in Bulgaria. But became a believer in Yeshua.

That's right. Continued to live as a religious Jew, continued to function as a rabbi. But he had a Messianic Jewish synagogue. That's right. Incredible.

Yes. And so she had no idea. She just knew it was Bulgarian. Yeah. And he was very respected within the Bulgarian and even the Turkish community, that all those who spoke Ladin, the Sephardic Jew community in Jaffa, he was very respected, very loved, and because he did so much to rescue the Jewish people from Bulgaria.

Right, so he was a hero in the Holocaust in that sense. Yes. All right, so she's outside of his synagogue with the baby.

So he comes out after the morning prayer, the Shecharit, he comes out and looks to her and he'll see she's very depressed and he starts talking to her and Ladino, Ijika, my daughter, what is it? Why are you like this? And she said, I don't want to leave any more and he said, Don't say that. He said, Sit here. He went and got her a book, gave it to her, said, Read it.

And he laid hands on her and prayed for her, which is totally unorthodox. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She went home, it was the New Testament. Really? She read it, she had so many questions.

She came back the next day, and he sat with her, explained her the good news, and prayed with her to accept Yeshua. That's remarkable. depression left her instantly. Wow Now, at this point, they're just a handful of Jewish believers in the land, correct? Correct.

It's not like there are thousands and thousands and just really a handful.

Okay, so she comes to faith. Your dad?

Well, before that, my sister comes to faith later on. Through your mother? Yes, through Rabbi Daniel Sion. All right.

But my father, first of all, he was happy to see the change in her, but the family very objected to her and sometimes even beat her, and so. And so he kind of was, didn't want to touch it. You know, he didn't understand it, but he was happy to see that she's okay. And of course, he respected the rabbi Daniel Sion.

So, well, they're going to synagogue every once in a while, so that's good. And um and he kept it quiet, so he was not a believer. But when I went to the States and Became believer when I came back.

Something happened in my dad. Wow.

Because he saw the change, first of all, of course, in my mother, my sister, but then in me. Because I was lost, I was a plague boy, you know. And when he saw the change in my life, it really touched him and he became a believer, too. Incredible.

That is the hand of God for sure. How many folks do you think were in Rabbi Daniel Sion's congregation back then?

Well, that's it's you know, even the term congregation, because he had a simple synagogue, and he had the morning three times a day the prayers, and people will come to him and have their normal prayers. But many times, people will come to him privately and ask questions, so he will share with them, pray with them, and tell them about Yeshua.

So, he had more like Bible studies. I even remember, as a little boy, a very little boy, I remember he will come to our home and have a Bible study.

So, the term even congregation didn't exist, even the term Messianic Jew did not exist. We didn't know how to call ourselves then.

So, it's really amazing to see what God has done in 50 years. Yes, I mean, you have lived through it. You are a living witness to the growth of the Messianic Jewish community with parents that are there right at the founding of the modern state of Israel. All right, there's much more to the story. To find out about this ministry, how you can connect with them in Israel, go to dogeet.org.

D-U-G-I-2. What does Dugik mean? A small fishing boat. Small fishing boat. All right, we'll be right back.

Shake that. Change the world. Change the world. It's fire we want. For fire we please.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

The time has come to begin a battle of annihilation. Our goal is clear to wipe Israel off the map. We shall destroy Israel and its inhabitants. Friends, I just want to draw to your attention. A very important one-time event this week coming, May 23rd.

So just five days from now, one night only, a powerful docudrama put together by CBN. I watched it, highly endorse it. Michael Medved. The Jewish film critic and radio host highly endorses it. One night only in select theaters.

Find out by going to InourHands1967.com. This is about the 50th anniversary of the reunification of Jerusalem and one that was very costly, very bloody. We talked about the miracle of the Six-Day War, but this was a costly miracle. And friends, you may be a lover of Israel. What about your kids?

You may be believers and you've always loved Israel, but what about your kids? Did they get it? Do they understand it? They've been raised in a very different world. Bring your kids along.

Bring your teenage kids along with you. Get them to come. Trust me, this will impact them and it'll change their perspective. As well. All right, sitting with Avi Mizrachi.

To find out about his ministry in Israel, go to dugit.org, D-U-G-I-T-Dugit, small fishing boat. Yep, going for souls, going for Jewish souls. Avi, how do you and your wife Chaya come to meet?

Well, I came to know the Lord in a Baptist church, and uh God changed my life totally around. And then another person took me to another ministry where they were more charismatic. I said, Oh, I'll go and check it out and my first experience was This is wild, you know, those people are speaking in tongues. Oi yo yoi So I I didn't want nothing to do with that.

Well meanwhile I was uh really wanted to meet my future wife.

So I was praying for my wife.

So the Lord spoke to me. go back to that church. And I said God, those are crazy people.

Now, how did he speak to you? I mean, this is common for us to hear those words, but how did he speak to you? Did you hear an audible voice? Did you have a sense in your heart? I had a sense in my heart that as I was praying, asking God that you will lead me to the right woman.

the Lord really put in my heart. You need to go back to that church.

So you had questions about the charismatic church, but you had a charismatic experience because the Holy Spirit was living in you. Yes. And we have relationships. 2 Corinthians 13:14. We have fellowship with the Holy Spirit.

All right, so you went back to that church. Yes, and then they had a normal service, but they had wonderful worship. God, you know, when He does things, He does perfectly. There was a guy who was in Israel, who just came back from a trip and He learned one song.

So He goes, Hine Matovu Manahim, Shevat Achim Gamiachi. Psalm 133 in Hebrew. Yeah. How good it is for to be to be together in unity.

So he sings this Hebrew song in this and I was like, Wow.

So I felt home. And then the pastor stood out, and he visited.

So I stood up. Yes, I'm a Jewish believer from Israel. And he said, Shalom, welcome.

So after the service, I went to see this guy who just came from Israel, who was in Israel, and sang the song and tell him he did a good job. And while I was there, A woman comes and says, Halom, my name is Haya. And as soon as she said that So she gave you a Hebrew name.

Well, and at that time she had another name. Brenda, sorry, Brenda. Then she got a Hibrenda. But the first time I met her. In my heart, I I felt a lot saying, This is your wife.

So the first time I met her, I knew it she was my wife and I hold her hand and then I won't let her go. She was ready to slap me because I was I was so excited and I won't let her go. Who's this guy? This is how I met my wife. Amazing.

Amazing.

I love these stories. And I met you and Kaya when I was speaking at Christ for the Nations, a large Bible school in Dallas, Texas, in 1986, I think it would have been. And you two were both studying there.

So God calls you back to Israel. What was it like to do Messianic Jewish ministry in the 80s in Israel? Oh, it was a big challenge because uh nobody sent me. I just finished Bible school and I just went back home because God told me go back home. I had, I think, a hundred, two hundred dollars in my pockets with a big vision, and I just knew.

I want to reach out to my Fellow Israelis. And Kaya had a calling for Israel in her heart. Of course. Yeah. Yeah.

She comes from Jewish background.

So when we came back home to Tel Aviv, We didn't know really nobody.

So we met one or two believers and one congregation that we went to. And then, in my heart, it's been always my heart to reach out to the Israelis with the good news. And that's how I started as an evangelist. And that's how I opened this coffee shop, this evangelistic center, Messianic center, for one reason, to reach out to the Israelis with the good news that Yeshua is risen.

Now, if we talk about a Messianic congregation, right?

So we're speaking about. A gathering, an actual gathering together in a place, a group of people that are worshiping God, that are recognizing Yeshua as the Messiah, and all of that. How many Messianic congregations were there in Israel back at that time? Wow.

I think back at that time, maybe a couple hundreds, I don't know, it was not many. Oh no, not not not total people. But total congregations. All congregations. Yeah.

So in other words, just a few hundred believers in the land total. A handful of congregations. I mean, I was not aware of hardly any. There was one here, one there that I began to hear about. But you're saying maybe a few hundred believers in Israel.

You, of course, know the Sorkarom family. And Ayal and Shani are now what in their 30s and with families and things like that. But I know them since they were a little exactly. And as they were growing up as Messianic Jewish kids in Israel, Shani said that they would say to each other, So what's the Messianic youth movement going to do today? Because they're like two of them.

Now you have gatherings with you know hundreds and hundreds worshiping, coming together.

So it's still a pioneer work. On the one hand, on the other hand, it was much more a pioneer work than that. And so as you're telling them, Israelis, That you're a they never heard of a Messianic Jew. I mean, it had no meaning, but you're a Jew who believes in Yeshua.

So the first thing is they just think you're Christian in different religions. There's a lot to overcome. Yes. First of all, they think you're crazy. Mishuka, you're crazy.

Don't you have anything else to do? Why do you believe in that man? They won't even say the name. And that's where we automatically put us in a false box, you know, that you're a traitor, you've gone another way. And the first thing that we do as Israelis say, wait a minute.

We are Israelis, we worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. We love God. And we have come to know him through the Messiah.

So when they hear this automatically in the Israeli mind, they're like, What? We never heard of such a thing. Yeah. And then Israelis are lost like everybody else. Yes.

They sin like everybody else. They have needs like everybody else. And Tel Aviv is a modern city. Very secular. Very secular, very worldly.

A few years back it was rated the the most gay-friendly city in the world.

So it it and then you have the pockets of the ultra-Orthodox place like B'nai Brak, so it's a unique place. But you were able you were able to share the gospel freely, though. Yes, yes. Israel is a democratic country, it's the only democratic country in the whole neighborhood. Yeah, exactly.

And we have the freedom of religion. Yet we have the Orthodox Jews who Hate us, they see us as traitors, and they persecute us. But it's okay. It's okay. It's part of what we signed up for.

All right, we come back. We're going to talk more about Israel. Take you right there to the promised land and talk about what's happening today and get some Israeli perspectives on American politics. We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr.

Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

So next week, President Donald Trump takes his trip to Israel, historic trip to Israel. Will he back away from his campaign promise to move the American embassy to Tel Aviv? Will he keep the promise? Will he try to make headway with the Palestinian Authority and others? Will he try to unite Muslims together against radical Islam while he's in the Middle East?

Will this be a positive visit for Israel or a negative visit? A lot of questions. And it's great to have the perspective. Of an Israeli And a believer in Israel, and that's what we have right here with my dear friend Avi Mizrachi. We've known Avi and his wife Chaya now for.

Over 30 years, which is amazing. I've had the joy of ministering in his congregation in Israel and participating with him side by side in many ways. We brought our tour group over to visit the prayer tower that they have, the prayer floor that they have in Israel, floor of a building, I mean. And the website for my friend Ahi Mizrahi, dugit.org, D-U-G-I-D, Dugit, meaning little. Fishing boat.

Avi, great to have you on the line of fire today. Thank you. Avi's in the States just for a couple of days preaching in Charlotte, North Carolina area, and then heading back to Israel.

Okay, generally speaking, I know you're just one person, but generally speaking, from what you know, Did the Israelis feel that President Obama was a good friend of Israel or not? Um Definitely um we on the news we could see that he was not very um Um Very friendly to our Prime Minister, Bibin Netanyahu, and we as Israelis within appreciate the way he treated him. Right. And I talked to enough Israelis and I read polls that he was not looked at as a friend of Israel. The feelings were more favorable towards President Bush, even though both presidents pushed for a two-state solution.

Okay. Donald Trump. How is he viewed? I know it's new, but generally speaking, what's the feeling in Israel? In general, people like him in Israel.

And when our Prime Minister came to visit after he was elected, we could see there was such a warm acceptance receiving and Israelis say, Oh, Praise God, thank God that now the new president is treating our prime minister right. Yeah. Now. Why is it so important? to move the embassy to Jerusalem.

you know, it could inflame Palestinian tensions, it it could provoke terrorism, it it could push Muslims around the world to want to attack Jewish people or others. Is it worth it? These are some of the objections that are raised. What's your perspective?

Well Terrorists will always look for a reason to attack.

So, if it's this today, tomorrow it will be something else.

So, I believe the right thing to do for every country to have their embassies in the capital. And the capital of Israel always has been Jerusalem. And I mean, I love the American embassy just around the corner where I am in Tel Aviv and right there by the beach. It's beautiful. But it's the right thing to do to move the American Embassy to Jerusalem, from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

To our capital, because that's the capital of Israel forever. And America is our closest ally friend, and America can be a good example for the rest of the nations. Yeah, and basically say this is it. This is non-negotiable.

Now let's talk about peace. But this is non-negotiable. And otherwise, you're never going to appease those that want to destroy Israel. Absolutely not. Uh we've got a break coming up, but I'd love to talk to you.

about reconciliation. about Jew and Arab coming together in the Messiah, Israelis and Palestinians, because you have a heart for that. and you're involved in that. Want to talk about that and then conference we were at years ago. When your congregation was with us at a conference, and if they had not been there, They would have been a cafe that got bombed by terrorists.

We're talking real life. in Israel. It is Thurley Jewish Thursday. You're listening to the line of fire and we'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks friends for joining us on this thirdly Jewish Thursday on the line of fire today Michael Brown with my dear friend Avi Mizrahi one of the pioneer Messianic Jewish leaders in Israel. racial reconciliation or or ethnic reconcili however you we want to Paint the picture in Israel because you're dealing with the same race and, in many cases, same ethnicity or overlapping ethnicities. From the earliest, earliest days of sharing the good news of the Messiah as a believer there, pioneering in outreach work, someone comes to faith here, someone comes to faith there. What's happened now? Fast forward to to today, what's happening in the Messianic Jewish world in Israel.

First of all, the body of Messiah, the body of Christ, have grown so much. Today, according to Tom Hess from the House of Prayer in Jerusalem, he counted more than 300 local congregations all over the land of Israel. We're talking Hebrew-speaking, Arabic-speaking, Russian-speaking, Amharat, Ethiopian, and some Spanish and French. Incredible.

The body of Christ has grown so much in the last 10, 20 years of congregations all over the land and about 15,000 believers all over the land of Israel today. And native-born Israelis like you. In the early days, those were handfuls, but maybe now a few thousand or something like that.

So, again, this is, it may seem small, but from where it was, it's dramatic. And then In the first hour, we had a guest on, part of a Messianic Jewish band that's traveling in the States now. But two of the young ladies involved with the band were on national Israeli TV, kind of the equivalent of American Idol or America's Got Talent, something like that. And one of them was on first earlier. even though she didn't witness on the show, people knew she was a believer.

That was out. And then the second one, as she got along and her progress, they went and took pictures of her leading worship, part of worship at a Messianic Jewish congregation, and she openly shared her faith. I mean, this is major. Yes. What kind of impact did that have?

Could you see a difference or just people thinking, okay, these are Israelis. These are our brothers and sisters. They're not just weird, crazy. Was it positive in that regard? Yeah, I would say today it's different.

Like, for example, my girls, when they went to school, they will be the only believers in the whole school.

Now, you can see more and more kids in schools, in the normal secular school. And more and more Israelis are more open and knowing that there is such a thing called Messianic Jews. Yeah. And of course, the very religious look at people like you and me as apostates, as heretics, as enemies, because not only are we sinning, we're leading our people into sin, not only are we deceived, we're deceiving others.

So sometimes there are protests and sometimes there's even violence, but as you said, that's. You smiled. That's part of the territory. It comes with a package. Yeah, it does.

Yeshua promised it for sure. On the larger issue, even though Israel is vigilant regarding terrorism. Constant terror attacks are stopped by Israeli intelligence. And as much as nobody likes the security barrier, the fence, and the wall, it's kept a lot of murderers out. It's done a great job of that.

But there still are terrorist attacks that have occurred.

So I was speaking at a conference with a friend of mine from the States. We flew over to speak at a conference in the Tel Aviv area, and we were all there one evening together. And your congregation normally would have had its own meeting and then gone to a local cafe. Instead, your congregation was with us. What happened that night?

Yeah, I believe it was about. uh twelve years ago, fif fourteen years ago, something like that. We had we had a beautiful place where we used to meet called Esther House, and we met Saturday night. But with then there was this beautiful conference organized just outside of Tel Aviv, and I made the decision, and I believe it was totally God, that we cancel our main service and we take the whole congregation To join the service, and you were there, and it was a wonderful service. But I will never forget that as there was worship, even before I think you spoke, whosoever was speaking, or you were speaking.

During the worship, people were getting their phones, getting out. You could see what's going on, something's going on. And so I asked and then we found out that there was a suicide bomber on that street on Al Inbi Alimbi in Benihuda, in that coffee shop. And it just dawned on me If we had the service, people would just come out from the service, our service, and many of them will go to that coffee shop. And we probably will have had people killed in that suicide bomb in that coffee shop.

Extraordinary. And here we are, a whole congregation. We canceled our service and we joined the conference. We were in a safe place worshiping the Lord. Amazing.

And that's where I knew that I knew I heard from the Lord. And nobody was injured. Yeah, and you know what's wild? We can't always explain why a believer dies here or is in an accident here, but you better believe we're grateful when we follow the Lord's leading, not even knowing that we're delivered from danger and delivered from death. But that's, again, a picture.

of what's happening in Israel.

Now here's something fascinating. When we had our tour group early this year, so February, end of February into March. Uh I uh every night I would do my radio show. And we would take maybe 15, 20 people would want to come with me, and we'd walk over from the hotel to the place we were going to be, or some would take a taxi if it was a further location, and we'd join together. But These first nights we were walking over a place called the Galilee Experience.

So we were walking from our hotel there over to the place. And there was a couple from South Africa, a young couple, and they said, we can't do this. We cannot walk the streets at night. They said, we cannot believe how safe Israel is here. They said, all of our neighborhoods are shuttered up and gates and fences and all this.

They were shocked by South Africa. Yeah, how safe it was in Israel compared to South Africa.

So there have been terror attacks and things like that, but the Army vigilant, the defense vigilant to keep terrorism down, and we're grateful for that, for much less loss of life. But when it comes to reconciliation, I mean, we can talk peace plans, we can try and negotiate, will Palestinian Authority be a peace partner, obviously Hamas, no. I mean, what's going to happen, surrounding nations, it's very volatile.

Now Turkey, once friendly, now hostile, and what's going to happen. Iran, this is what you're surrounded with. This is real life there. All the young people serving in the military. Does your average Israeli family think this is so wonderful we get to send our sons and daughters?

into the army. Mandatory, and we spend a ton of our budget on defense. Is your average really thriving in war, or are they looking for peace? Definitely. Every you ask every Israeli who lives in Israel, what do you want?

They will tell you, shalom, peace. We all want shalom, but we know if we want to live in to live in peace and safety, We have to guard our borders and we have to send our best, our children, our boys and girls. To serve in the army. And every person that goes, they know that it's not a choice. It's a matter of if my parents fought so I can live a good life in Israel.

How can I, as a child, say no and not defend my family, my country, my people?

So it's we feel patriots. We feel that the ch our children feel they're going to the army to serve their country, to protect our homes and our li and our lives. And yet, even in the army, aren't they taught ethics? Oh, yes. Yeah.

Very high ethics. For example, there was all I'm sure. You've heard it of this soldier that there was a a terrorist in Hebron who tried to stab a soldier and the soldier was able to shoot at him and he fell. And then this other soldier came and he saw the the terrorist although he was on the floor shot but he moved so he shot again to make sure that he doesn't throw a grenade or something.

Well, they they it was on video and the Palestinians said, Look, the Israelis are killing innocent Palestinians, so they took you to court and for a year The Israeli court really checked: was it necessary for him to shoot it? Yeah. And they came to a decision. Yes, he was a terrorist. Yes, he tried to establish Israeli, but the first g shotgun shot was enough.

There was no reason for him to do another shot. And they put him in jail. I mean, what country will tolerate such a thing that a terrorist comes to kill you, you shoot him once, and then he moves again, and you're afraid he's gonna attack you again, and then you said no, the soldiers will not have shot again because, although he's a terrorist, but he was neutralized. But this is how the issue is. And there was even an outcry in Israel about Israelis upset.

That a terrorist trying to kill their own people is shot. And the guy's shooting him, what is he, 19, 20 years old? Yeah. Exactly.

So one young Israeli was telling me that when he's in the army, That he can't leave the base without his ID and his ethics card. He can't leave the base. And that we'll get emails, it could have been from you years back with your kids or others. Hey, pray. I remember during different wars, pray, our kids are on the front lines, and we have to protect the civilians.

So we have to take all these precautions to make sure we don't kill innocent civilians, but we might get killed in the process.

So pray, this is reality. It's not you have this war-mongering spirit and just wipe out the Palestinians.

So the dictum, Prime Minister Chenya said it over and again, it's been repeated over and again: that if the Palestinians put down their weapons, there'd be no more war. If the Israelis put down their weapons, there'd be no more Israel. That's right. It remains true. Right.

We've got just a few more minutes with my guest, Avi Mizrahi, the website, what they're doing in Israel, dogeet.org. D-U-G-I-T dogeet.org. Check it out. We come back. I do want to.

talk about efforts for reconciliation between Israelis and Palestinians, Jewish believers and Arab believers, what's happening, it'll encourage your heart. It's the only hope for peace. Yeah, that's good. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

It is Thoroughly Jewish Thursday. I'm sitting here with my thoroughly Jewish guest, Avi Mizrachi, a pioneer Messianic Jewish leader in Israel. The website for the work there, dogeet.org, d-u-g-i-t.

So Avi. We know about the hostility. between Israelis, Palestinians, the wars that have been fought. and things like that. Yeah, on the one hand, everybody wants to live in peace.

But there are very different approaches to it. And for the more radical Palestinians, there can be no peace as long as the Jewish people are in the land at all. Very, very difficult situation. Palestinians just say: we've been displaced, you're occupying our land, and the battles go back and forth. And yet, in the midst of all of this, God is at work.

And many of you who are Messianic Jewish leaders in Israel have Palestinian or Arab pastor friends, and things have happened in other countries as well as in Israel.

So talk about some of the things happening with young people, too, with reconciliation. Yeah, a a classic example I can give is that for the last ten years I'm part of this movement called SAFE, Sitting at Yeshua's feet. And basically we are a group of pastors where we invite twice a year for two days to go to the desert. We invite Jewish and Arab pastors. And what we do, we go there for two days in the south, in the Negev, and we have time of prayer and worship.

And no preaching, because we're all preachers. But we are there to share testimony or share scripture. But the whole idea is to get away and build relationship, pray for one another, and we end by taking the Lord's Supper together.

Now, where do the Arab pastors come from? From all over the land of Israel. Of course, there are many Arab congregations in Galilee.

Some in Jerusalem.

Some like in the city of Haipha, Nazareth, you know, in the in the north. And um And sometimes some Palestinians that don't have Israeli passports that are Palestinians that live in the Judea and Samaria or the West Bank, if they have permits, they can come as well. Yeah, so uh Yeah, if we Think about this. Uh Or if you were just sitting down having a political discussion, do you think it might get tense? We we sometimes do talk politics but we know that we're not there because of our Politics.

We are there because we love Yeshua and we know that Yeshua has made us one. And I can tell you, there is such a love and respect to us. One another, and there's such a unity among us that I haven't seen in many other countries.

So, for us in Israel, we are such a minority. And the price we pay as believers in the land is a big price.

So, we know that we must, we have to, we have no choice but to really love one another and get to know one another and build relationship and even discuss our differences, but we do it in a honorable and a loving way. And what about the youth conference, the Elav Conference, every year? Doesn't that bring Jewish and Palestinian Arab believers together? Yes, yes. And it's wonderful because here you see young people that maybe have been raised with some hatred, especially from the Palestinian side.

When they come and they see their young people, Jews, who love God and love them, the Arabs, the many times they come to the city and said, I want to ask forgiveness because I have so much hatred towards you and I realize I was wrong and I'm so happy to meet you and please forgive me and there is embracement and embracing one another and praying for one another.

So God the Holy Spirit is working beautifully among us more elderly generation, but also among the young generation when they realize there is no other hope but coming together as Jewish and Arab believers in the Messiah Jesus. Yes, and I know sometimes that the Israeli young people have really honored the Palestinian young people and given them kind of a special seat and preference. Then they'll have worship. And here's worship in Hebrew. Here's worship in Arabic.

So it does bring down many, many walls. And if you want to talk to folks in America and they want to pray, you know, they pray for the peace of Jerusalem and they're going to do that. What else can they pray for when it comes to Israel?

Well, when you pray for the peace of Jerusalem, in Hebrew shalu, which means really find out, ask. God wants us to find out what's happening in the land so you can pray more specifically. And I believe it's so important that believers get to know the believers in the land and find out so you can pray more specifically. Pray for the different congregations, for the youth. The harvest is ready.

We don't have enough labors, Michael. We need more labors into the harvest field. We need one of the things to raise up young leaders. And we see the need that we have. We don't have enough workers.

And I'll just give you one last quick example. The Lord has put in our heart to reach out to those refugees from Iraq and Syria with all this going on. We've been praying for this.

Well, the Lord put in our heart to organize a team of young people, Jewish and Arab. And last year, we took a team from Israel, Jewish and Arab believers. And I took a team of the Jewish, and another dear friend of mine, Pastor Nizar from Nazareth, Arab pastor. We went together, took a team to Greece. To Thessaloniki, to Greece, and there we had a time of prayer.

And then we went to the refugee camps, to the tents, and gave clothes and food. But then we invited them to this small church there in Thessaloniki. We fed them, sang songs to them, and shared the gospel with them. And those Muslims weren't shocked that they saw Israelis, Jews, and Arabs showing such love, and there's no hatred between us that we prayed with Muslims every day to accept, oh, they were refugees from Syria and Iraq. Amazing.

So they saw the reality of the song that was sung in a church that you heard many years ago from Psalm 133, Behold, how good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell together in unity. You know, when in Antioch in Acts 11 is the first time the believers are called Christians or Messianics, people didn't know what to call them, but it was when Jew and Gentile were together in one body.

So you see Israelis and Arabs, Israelis and Palestinians side by side sharing the gospel, working together as a team, especially to a war-torn. A Muslim country where it's Muslims killing Muslims and people being mistreated and dying and the brutality, and now you see love expressed like that. What a powerful, powerful witness. But, friends, Hear my friend Avi clearly. Yes, we want to see Jewish people come into faith every day.

We live for it. Our hearts beat for it. But there's a great need for discipling. There's a great need for training. There's a great need for raising up the next generation.

And Israel can wear you down. It's a high-pressure place to live. You make a living, you push hard, there's pressure all around you, and it's just not the, it can often pull you away from the deeper things that matter most.

So pray for Duguet. Again, the website dugit.org, do geet.org. Pray for them. Stand with them as you're able. And let's believe God that what we've seen from the early days until today, every year will double and triple and quadruple for the glory of God.

Hey, Avi, thanks for joining us today. My pleasure. All right.

Friends, make sure you check out my latest videos and articles at askdrbrown.org. My virtual video debate with Rabbi Yuserel Blumenthal is now up. Part one by each of us. If you go to askdrbrown.org, you can watch my 20-minute presentation of the real Jewish Messiah, and then there's a link to watch his. Also, when you're on my website, sign up for my emails.

Sign up for my email list. I want to send you a free e-book, Seven Secrets of the Real Messiah. Hope you had a blessed, thoroughly. Jewish Thursday. Gain to the world.