Naming Islamic Terrorism; Should Christians Pray for Judgment?; and a New Book on Hearing the Voice of the Lord

Alright, still more to focus on. World terror, radical Islam. What should we do? It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Can someone please tell me why after yet another Islamic terror attack, that much of the news is about the fear that there will be a backlash against Muslims. Why is that what comes up over and over and over again? Hey, friends, this is Michael Brown. I'm coming away live from Washington, D.C., here for a conference with the Family Research Council. And before we talk about terror, before we talk about the role of Islam in terror, before we talk about what the Muslim world needs to do and more about the president's trip to the Middle East, I just want to give a quick shout out.

Let me give background. I was doing teaching on Monday in Orlando, recording for our TV show, Word on Fire, and I was going through some of the messages of Jesus to the churches in Asia Minor. And he starts off most of the letters saying, I know your deeds. I know your deeds. I know your deeds.

Now that could be good news, that could be bad news, depending on what your deeds are. But one of the things I mentioned is that when you serve the Lord, when you honor the Lord, when you do what's right, He sees that. He knows that. Even if others don't, even if you're taken advantage of, even if people don't acknowledge you, even if someone else gets credit for what you do, He knows your deeds. And He will bless you, He will honor you for what you do.

Okay, so I fly in from Orlando after doing radio yesterday and get in late last night and immediately want to check to be sure that I have a proper connection in my room. I travel with this small radio unit. It's an expensive little radio unit, and I have to plug in a cable connection to the internet in order to get the right connection for our studio so that we can broadcast in high quality, literally from anywhere in the world, where I can get the right connection.

So I check. All right, cool. Watching from Malaysia, Joanne. Wonderful. I'm doing a Facebook live video at the same time, a little experiment here.

You can see the hotel room behind me. But what happened was I got in late last night and around midnight and trying to hook up the Ethernet cable and I see I have no signal. It's not working.

So Jason from Baltimore came in, an engineer still on duty at the hotel. And Jason was kind enough to explain to me that when you live in Baltimore, Baltimore, even though there's a T in there, you don't say the T, you say a D, Baltimore, Baltimore.

So he tried to work on it till late, couldn't get it working.

So I said, hey man, I'm going to give you a shout out when it's time for the show today. Here's how you listen. And then this morning, Alino. who's one of the the uh head engineers in the hotel here alino from the philippines he came in to work on things with that typical filipino servant spirit service with a smile here to help and he and then the chief it uh man jeremy who's a regular listener to the line of fire broadcast jeremy was on it they actually called to say hey jeremy's on his way up to make sure you can do your radio show and between them they got everything up and running how to switch ports and do this and do that to get the right connection so we are literally here on the radio with you today thanks to jason alino and jeremy and the terrific staff at the hotel where i am in washington dc i promised the shout out and you got it But I want to say to each of you listening and to each of you watching. When you're praying in secret, When you're shedding those tears and honor for the Lord, because you want to do what's right.

When you refuse to bow down and compromise, when you're under pressure, and only God sees it, and He sees the purity of your heart when you say no to temptation and you do what's right, when you share the gospel with someone or do good and there's no one around to see it, God sees God knows.

So, take my little shout-out to Jason, Alino, and Jeremy to be God's shout-out to you. We come back, sober things to talk about: Islam, terror, what's the relationship, how should we respond? We'll be right back. Oh God of burning, cleansing flame, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. It is now concluded. on the basis of today's investigations.

that the threat level should be increased. for the time being. From Sevilla, Too critical. That was the voice of British Prime Minister Theresa May. The nation of England reeling, rocking over this horrific terror attack.

More suspects arrested. And On top of that, a search for the alleged bomb maker. Just think of it. Children as young as eight killed. Teenagers killed.

Moms and dads killed. Chaos. This is the exact express goal. of terror. This is the exact express goal.

This is the focus purpose. Terror is to bring terror. And this is looked at as a war. on the unbelievers. Here's what's even more staggering for the people of England.

If you consider this. When there were the train bombings in the year 2005, there were four bombers involved. three of them born and raised in England. One of them came from Jamaica, the island of Jamaica, when he was five.

So he was raised all his life in England. They had the benefit of the best that England had to offer. They were not raised in oppressed environments. They were not raised under some fierce dictatorship. They were raised in environments that theoretically, were conducive to liberty and freedom and should have brought about an expression of that and an appreciation for the freedoms they had.

Instead, they were radicalized to the point of blowing up innocent civilians in the name of their religion.

Now the bomber involved the the chief suspect who blew himself up at the concert in Manchester, Salman Abidi. According to the reports, he was also born and raised in England. His family came from Libya to flee the dictatorship of Muammar Gaddafi. But the father was known to be very devout and highly spoken of in the mosques and would do the early morning prayer calls and was known for his beautiful voice. You say, well, that's it.

I mean, that's the whole thing. And his kids, his sons, memorized the Quran as children. I mean, this is a real act of piety in the Muslim world. You say, well, that's it. That's the whole thing in a nutshell.

I mean, they were radical. They were crazy.

Well, no, hang on. It's not that simple. It's not that simple. The fact of the matter is that these... Uh that these that this man, this gentleman, and his family opposed radical Islam.

That his father, according to a friend, would speak out against ISIS, would speak out against al-Qaeda and groups like that, and say that the family thought it was not just bad, but it was criminal behavior. and that the family allegedly turned Uh The family allegedly was the one that went to the police and said that this is our son. It's our brother.

So they opposed radical Islam in the name of Islam.

Now here's why we must identify it by name. We must address it. Under the Obama administration, sadly, there was a refusal to use the term Islamic terrorism or radical Islam because President Obama's position was this is not Islam. at all. That was his position.

This is not Islam.

Well, here's the problem then. References to Islam were literally purged from our law books, our intelligence books. You just couldn't mention that because that wasn't the problem.

Well then how could you focus in on radical Islamic ideology? How could you focus in on how people are recruited and radicalized? How could you focus in on the messages that were coming from the mosques and things like that if you can't identify Islam?

Now, here's the thing. You can debate whether this is a valid expression of Islam or a perverted expression of Islam. You can debate whether this is the one and only true Islam, or if it is a perversion of the faith, or if it's one of several valid expressions. We can have that debate, but you can't deny, in my view, in the view of many, you cannot deny the connection. Terror attack after terror attack.

all over the world and where does it flow from? Islamic ideology, the message of Muhammad, the Quran, the Hadith, the Sunnah. Islamic history in recent years, Islamic theology in recent years.

Now you can say, well, that's all labyrinth, that's misinterpretation, there are other interpretations. Fine, have that debate, but you can't separate it from Islam in that respect. And that is the big problem here.

So under the Obama administration, the thought was you don't want to offend the Muslim world. You don't want to offend the Muslim world.

So we're not going to say radical Islam, Islamic terror, we'll just call it terrorism or extremism.

So think for a moment if neo-Nazi skinheads, white neo-Nazi skinheads, were going around different neighborhoods, burning down synagogues, killing Jewish people, but you were not allowed to identify. You just said that there's extremists out there. They're crazies out there. No, no, identify them. If this was happening, you'd identify them as neo-Nazi white supremacist skinheads.

You'd be better able to profile, you'd be better able to trace the roots, you'd be better able to see how they're recruiting whites, angry whites in prison and this kind of thing, and in the poor white communities and what they're appealing to and what their ideology is. Of course you'd do it. You have to do it. Uh so I was on JihadWatch yesterday, Robert Spencer's website. And you could feel the frustration, article after article after article, where people, well, we don't want to say Islamic terror.

We don't want to say Islamic terror. Katy Perry is interviewed and she says, look, we just have to love each other and coexist. Hey. As I tweeted out earlier, note to Katy Perry, radical Muslims don't want to coexist with you. They want to convert you or kill you.

You are the enemy. You're not just dealing with another rational mindset.

Well, let's sit down and discuss our differences. I do that all the time with people. Let's sit down across the table and discuss our differences. And if we walk away with deeper differences, we're not going to kill each other. But when you're talking about a radical Muslim, a radical Islamic ideology with support from Quran, whether it's interpreted rightly or not, with support from Quran, with support from Islamic tradition, with support from the life of Muhammad, it's clear what we are dealing with and therefore why we must identify it by name.

Okay, I'm looking at an article here from memory. M-E-M-R-I.org. This is the Middle East Meteor Research Institute. Jihad and Martyrdom in Palestinian Authorities School Books. The following are examples of references the following are examples of references to jihad and martyrdom in Palestinian Authority school books.

The references appear in books for the subject of Islamic studies, Arabic, and language.

So here, Arabic textbook for grade 7 features the following poem, The Martyr. by Palestinian poet Abd al-Al-Rahim Mahmoud. I carry my life in my hand and cast it into the abyss of perdition, give me either a life that gladdens the heart of a friend or a death that hurts the enemy. What kind of life is this if I do not sow fear in the safe haven of the enemy? By my life I see my death, yet I hasten my steps towards it.

I see myself dying without gaining my stolen night and without my hope for homeland. The ring of steel is pleasant to my ear and the stream of blood gladdens my soul. And on and on it goes. Here's a poem praising martyrdom for seventh graders. Page 79 of the same book, students are asked to write an essay about a Palestinian or Arab female martyr.

Yes, someone who killed Israelis, killed Jews, celebrate them, they are martyrs. An exercise in part two of this book, page 49, asks students to write an essay about a martyr they knew and mention details like his name, his place of birth, his achievements, how he was martyred, society's attitude towards his family after his martyrdom, and the status of martyrs on Islam, and on and on it goes. In a language textbook for grade 10, an exercise on page 51 requires students to consider the sentence, The Hanzas of Palestine offer up their children for the sake of the victory of Allah and His Messenger, and on and on. This is what kids are being fed. This is what kids are being fed in Palestinian textbooks.

It'd be worse even under Hamas in Gaza. This is an ideology, and what's it associated with? It's associated directly with. Islam.

So here's what needs to happen. We need to Say yes. This is a problem associated with Islam. Let us see how people are being radicalized, say, in the states. It's not just a matter of keeping terrorists out of the country.

It's about keeping people within the country from getting radicalized. Who's doing the radicalizing? How are they being recruited? To what extent is it happening in mosques and places of worship and things like that? To what extent is that going on?

And we call on the Muslim world categorically, unequivocally, to renounce this. to say this is not Islam. And then to deal with this junk that's in these books, and to deal with the, I'm talking about Palestinian textbooks, to deal with the ideology that associates this with Islam, and to say we don't make an exception. If you blow up a Jewish family in Israel or you blow up a British family in England, it's terrorism nonetheless. Let the Muslim world stand up and say this has nothing to do with Islam and let them work with us to prove the point.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Welcome friends to the line of fire. This is Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. The Jesus kind of revolution. The one that overcomes hatred with love. The one that overcomes anger with peace, the one that overcomes the flesh with the spirit, the one that overcomes lies with truth, the one that overcomes evil with good.

If you'd like to call, get in the conversation 866-34TRUTH-866-348-7884. If you're watching live on Facebook, welcome to the broadcast from Washington, D.C. I'm out of my regular studio today on the road with my special portable radio unit, broadcasting from my hotel room, getting ready to speak at a conference for Tony Perkins and the Family Research Council. I have a Twitter poll going. Let me just check the latest results.

This proves nothing. other than what my Twitter followers believe.

Okay, it proves nothing meaning. It does not give us any indication whether what people think is true is actually true. All I'm asking is: what's your understanding of Islam. Is violent Islam, the True expression of Islam. Is it not Islam at all?

Or is it one possible expression of Islam? No. The vast majority of people responding are not Islamic scholars. The vast majority will not have studied the Quran and Islamic tradition. The vast majority will not be Muslims.

So I'm just getting the opinion of my Twitter followers that's. all this is designed to do. 61% This is the biggest answer. 61% say violent Islam is the true expression of Islam. In other words, many say to me, don't use the word radical, don't call it radical Islam, because it's just Islam.

I'll call it radical Islam.

So 61% say that violent Islam is true Islam. This is what Islam is really about. 9%, this is the smallest response, say it's not Islam. Not Islam. at all.

And then 30%. Say it is one valid expression. of Islam.

Now that's my view. It is one valid expression. But a peaceful Islam is also a valid expression and has basis in the texts and things like that. And that's why the father of the terrorist bomber according to the reports, was against Islamic violence and thought that it was just criminal behavior and had nothing to do with Islam. And he was a devout Muslim.

himself.

So uh this much we know. This much we know. That the radicals, the extremists, whether they have an aberrant form of Islam, a valid form of Islam, or the true expression of Islam. they make it bad for Muslims worldwide. When I was in Florida yesterday, I was walking through the mall.

I just had to pick some things up and I saw a couple of Muslim women walking.

Now they were somewhat westernized. I mean they were wearing slacks and things like that, but they were they did have scarves, hijabs on, and I thought they must feel a little uncomfortable. walk around in public as Muslims today because people are thinking, are you terrorists? Are you murderers? Are you part of that group?

So I understand Muslims do suffer because of this, but the big concern The big concern we should have is not Is this going to be bad for Muslims? The big concern we should have when there's a terrorist attack is how can we deal not just with the people, but with the ideology. And again, think of profiling in the best possible term, okay? criminal profiling. Maybe like the TV show Criminal Minds.

You're looking for a serial killer.

Okay, it's this type of person. Let's profile them. The person is going to be this age. They're going to be white or black. They're going to have this kind of job or not.

It's going to help you locate that person. Israeli security when you fly El Al. They do expert profiling. They are the best at it. They talk to you, they look for certain reactions, they look for certain types of people, and this is how they keep terrorists off of their planes and out of their country.

There's an unhealthy profiling that makes sinful judgments, that looks at people just based on race or ethnicity or something like that, and makes character judgments. And there are people, I've had many African-American callers tell me about how they've been racially profiled or their kids have been racially profiled. Why?

Well, because there's a high crime rate in their community, and the demographic is that it's mainly committed by black men between this age and that age, and they happen to fit that demographic and they get stopped. That's unfortunate. That's unfortunate that good law-abiding people get stopped. On the flip side, you have to put yourself in the shoes of the police officer who says, okay, we've just been given a description of a burglary committed by someone that fits this description. We see them drive by in a car and we notice something a little suspicious.

We stop the car. That's the challenge with it. We need, when it comes to this ideology, to profile in the best sense of the word. And then from there, we can better combat the ideology. How absurd that people don't even want to mention it by name.

There's a British. Anchor, BBC Anchor. And he tweeted out that Europe has to get used to these attacks. Europe has to get used to this. This is what he tweeted out.

What's his name? Jack Postubiak? And think of that. You live in England, so you just have to get used to that. What kind of rubbish is that?

No, you don't get used to this. You combat it. Yes, as believers, we pray for the salvation of these radical Muslims. We pray that their eyes would be opened. to the deception.

and the murderous nature of what we believe. Yes, we pray for all that, absolutely. And then on a military level, if we're at war, we try to take out the enemy. On the self-defense level, we have secure borders and things like that. But, you know, when, and I referred to this earlier, Katy Perry's.

Utopian optimism. She didn't just say, let's just coexist. She said, look, no barriers. No borders. We all just need to coexist.

And as I said earlier, and as I tweeted out to Katy Perry, they don't want to coexist with you. They want to convert you or kill you. You say, well, it doesn't like Christians. No, we want to share the gospel with Katy Perry. If she really knew the Lord growing up, we wanted her to come back to the Lord and really know him.

If she never really knew him, was just raised in Christian tradition and never really experienced him for herself, even if she was raised around the gospel, we wanted to really know the Lord. And if she does, we keep praying for her. We're not going to kill her. We keep praying for her. I tweeted this out yesterday that radical Christianity says that the world is evil.

And we reach out to unbelievers with the love of the gospel. The radical Islam says the world is evil. and kills the unbelievers. And and uh look. There are Islamic leaders around the world.

major Islamic leaders that justify this type of behavior in the name of Islam. Hence. Hence, Because Because We are fighting an ideology. We must name it and identify it and combat it. And I am sure there are Muslim leaders who have spoken out against the Manchester attacks.

I don't doubt it. But Where? Where, pray tell, are the mass Islamic protests all around the world? Where are they in Pakistan? Where are they in Afghanistan?

Where are they in Saudi Arabia? Where are they in Iran? Where are they in Libya? Where are they in Yemen? Where are they in Islamic country?

after country in the world. Where are they saying, this is not Islam? We reject this violence. We reject it. Where are Muslim communities in France and Germany and the Netherlands jumping up saying, we reject this, this is not Islam?

Hmm. Could it be? There's too much of a connection to Islam. Let the Muslim world speak. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr.

Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

I want to reiterate what I said this morning. about the professionalism of the emergency services. and the bravery of the people of Manchester. Through their actions, They proved that cowardice will always be defeated by bravery. that evil can be overcome by good.

And that our values, broad pluralistic values of Britain, will always prevail. over the hateful ideology of the terrorists. Again, the voice of British Prime Minister Theresa May. with all respect to the pain in your country right now. with all respect to the upheaval, with all respect to the trauma.

Please, please mention Islamic terror. Yeah. And just think. Just think, the mayor of London is a Muslim. Did I say is a terrorist?

No. The mayor of London is a Muslim. That's how much Islam has influenced Great Britain. I remember being in Luton, England, in 1987. I was preaching there at a number of different churches in England and was being hosted by a pastor in Luton.

In the morning you heard the prayer call. the Islamic prayer call. And he said, Yeah, a mosque has just been built here. This is 1987. He said churches have been trying to get land to build on and it's been declined, but this mosque was given land to build on or was able to acquire land to build on.

And as I was preaching, I I asked the question. Who's to say that in thirty years England won't be a Muslim nation. And people looked at me with kind of scorn and You go, what? What are you talking about? It's 1987 when I'm 32 years old, some kid over from America.

And just so they didn't think I was being biased and trying to speak evil of England, I said, who knows? You know, America could be a communist nation in the 30s. Of course, I didn't believe that for a split second, but I just said it to say, you know, okay, who knows, right? Um but In point of fact, Islam has had goals on England for years. And Saudi Arabia...

not through violence in this case, but through education, through its massive oil money. has underwritten Islamic outreach and the building of mosques in prominent places in major cities around the world as part of Islamic outreach. And some would say that the ideology of Saudi Arabian Islam, Wahhabism, fundamentalist Islam, is a major source of the violence. And people would point out that most of the suicide bombers involved in the 9-11 attacks came from Saudi Arabia, that Osama bin Laden came from Saudi Arabia. These friends are Realities.

Again, when I was on jihadwatch.org last night, And looking at article after article, Robert Spencer had written a bunch of them in a couple of days. One example after another example after another of people just not wanting to say radical Islam. And in fact, I'm just going to pull up that page now and see. Let's see here. Um Okay.

Jihad mass murderer's older brother smiles as he is arrested for role in massacre. Isn't it interesting that the father denounced Islamic terror, but his sons seem to embrace at least two of them. New York Times on Manchester Jihad Mass Murderer. No one yet knows what motivated him to commit such a horrific deed. That's what the New York Times says.

no one yet knows what motivated him to commit such a horrific deed. What are you talking about no one yet knows? What what? Come on What of course we know He was radicalized as a Muslim. They've been back and forth with Tolibia in recent days.

Allegedly, he was shouting out the Quran or quoting the Quran on the streets in days before it, acting oddly. We don't know, no one yet knows what motivated him. Islamic State, we swear to Allah that the infidel countries in the West won't have the luxury of security. And on and on. Germany considers fines of up to $56 million for hate speech.

Oh, just what we need. Give us strict to always do what's right. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Thanks for joining us, friends, on the line of fire broadcast 86634. For truth is the number to call. If you'd like to get in on the conversation, one more clip from Theresa May, clip number three. Again, she is reacting, Prime Minister of England, to the attack in Manchester.

By the way, We we're looking now on the site of C A I are the Council of American Islamic Relations, which many believe is really a front for Islamic terrorism or is a friend to Islamic terrorism. And in the past, it was known to have ties with Hamas. Just looking on their website now for their statement denouncing the attack, renouncing the attack. And let me explain why. This is significant, that their silence, if it is silence indeed, is significant.

But first, listen to Theresa May once more. While we mourn the victims of last night's appalling attack, we stand defiant. The spirit of Manchester and the spirit of Britain is far mightier than the sick plots of depraved terrorists. That is why The terrorists will never win. And we.

will prevail. Yeah, here's here's the problem. I appreciate the courageous statement. I appreciate her saying we're not going to bow down. But but right now.

England, the nation of England. is on critical alert. for another terrorist attack. you have soldiers marching through the streets. Life is not going on.

like normal. In that sense, the terrorists have already won. And, let me say it again, unless you're not going to be able to do it. You Name it. radical Islamic terrorism.

then you will not look at the problem holistically and wisely. Am I saying all Muslims should be profiled? No. All terrorists should be profiled, and to the extent that the terror connects to Islam, then you act accordingly with the help of non-terrorist Muslims. And if they don't stand with you and help, then they are saying I have greater solidarity with Muslims who are terrorists than I have with the country in which I live.

That is saying something. And thus far, if I'm correct, I qualify this, if I'm correct in what I've heard, British intelligence has not gotten a lot of help. from the Muslim community. in the recent past to help expose terror, if I'm correct. Um But here's why I say it's significant of groups like CARE and other major Muslim organizations do not actively, aggressively, and unequivocally Denounce.

this and say this has nothing to do with Islam and we are working to root this out of mosques and root this out of our community wherever it is found. Let's say that it's a few years back. And it's one of the very few Still inexcusable. But very few attacks. by Christians.

on abortion doctors. Yes, there have been people that from what I can tell or Christian. and they get twisted in their faith. and they think I have to take the law in my own hands. Just like someone was coming into my house to steal my children and kill my children, now someone's trying to kill someone else's baby in the room, I've got to take the law in my own hands, and they kill an abortion doctor.

Now just realize. We are passionate in the pro-life movement. The pro-life movement has been active for decades, even before Roe v. Wade, and all the more since Roe v. Wade.

And yet with all the passion, You don't hear about abortion clinics being bombed. You don't hear about abortion doctors being killed. You don't hear about that. because we're pro-life.

So one of the few times, again, inexcusable, whether it's five or one or ten, it's inexcusable. One of the few times this has happened. What is that immediately? Every pro-life organization. Immediately says, This is not the gospel, this is not our faith, this is not who we are, this is not what we believe, this is wrong, this is abroad, this has nothing to do with Jesus.

Correct? Immediately. We don't qualify it. We don't say we reject all terrorist acts, including Islamic terror and Hindu terror and Jewish terror. No, no, we just say this is not the gospel, this is not Jesus, this is not our faith.

We renounce it, we have nothing to do with this, we repudiate it, period, end of subject, done. And if some group rose up, Say, like a Westboro Baptist group. They're not going around killing people, but they're espousing hatred. God hates fags. God hates America.

God hates Sweden. When the tsunami devastated so many parts of the Far East, and horrific, horrific suffering took place, and there were, say, Swedish tourists who were killed in it. They. Westboro Baptists were rejoicing. They got what they deserve.

They got what they deserve. When someone comes back, say, killed by an IED in Iraq, one of our heroic soldiers, their body shipped back to the States, Westboro Baptists will have a protest at the funeral saying we have a fag army and this is divine judgment. We all, immediately when we hear that, we renounce it. We denounce it. We say that is not our faith.

That is not the gospel. That is not Jesus. That is not who we are. That is not what we believe. And yet When this happens over and over again in the name of Islam, Yes, there are some who speak out, but there are many.

who don't, and from my perception, most who don't, and most just say, well, this is not our faith, this is aboriginal.

Well, then work with intelligence in the West and say, okay, here, let's work together to uproot this from our mosques. And when we have one of these radical leaders, we ourselves as a community are going to excommunicate the person. And we are going to announce from every mosque and in all of our literature. You said it happens. No, it doesn't happen nearly the way it needs to happen.

We're going to say you blow yourself up, you go to hell, not paradise. Yeah. This needs to happen.

So at Katie Hopkins Well, tell you what, before I get to Katie Hopkins, I mentioned her yesterday. Here, let me play this clip. And again, this is the wrong thing to be emphasizing at this time. Johnny, grab clip number four. This is Christine Marsh on ABC.

And uh what what What is Christian Marsh reporting on this? What's ABC worried about? in the immediate aftermath of the Manchester radical Islamic terror attack. Listen. And, Martha, as you said, the people in Manchester are determined to kind of go back to daily life, but this is also likely to inflame anti-Islamic sentiment across Britain, across Europe.

It sure could, George. You know, Manchester itself is a very multicultural city. There's a large Muslim population with many there for generations.

So headscarf attracts little attention there. And notably, Manchester did not vote in favor of Brexit. But an attack like this, as you said, is much bigger than Manchester itself and will likely create backlash, depending, of course, on the details of this attack. Yeah, so it's going to create backlash. That is what is going to happen.

That is the concern. Hey, it is. It is a concern. I recognize that. You need to tell people don't go out hating all Muslims now, but the Muslim community can help in this regard.

The Muslim community can say we are working to eradicate this. Uh okay, let's see. The I'm I'm going right now to the Council of American Islamic Relations, CARE, C-A-R-A, C-A-R-I, looking on their looking on their website. And here we go. This is May 23rd, so yesterday.

Plenty of time to report on this. What's the lead article? CAIRDFW asked Texas Sheriff to reaffirm commitment to equal justice after Islamophobic rant. That's the problem. Islamophobia.

Here's another from yesterday. Muslim Civil Rights Group launches Inspired to Care video series. Care to offer Ramadan Know Your Rights as an employer webinar? Where is the message being shouted out?

Now here. It gets worse. It gets worse. Are you ready? Uh I'm going to quote from my article.

If you haven't read it yet, it's up on our website, sdrbrown.org, why we must name, identify, and combat the ideology of radical Islam. There is a book by. by a Catholic scholar of Islam. He is not a Zionist, by the way. Sameer Khalil Samir.

And in his book, 111 Questions on Islam, I cite this in my article. He pointed to the final document released at the end of the summit held in Beirut in January 2002, in which more than 200 Sunni and Shiite ulema, which is scholars, coming from 35 countries participated. They were discussing suicide attacks in Israel. And whether those could be justified in the name of Islam, which otherwise opposes suicide.

So here's the context: it is 2022. Two. All right. More than 200 Sunni and Shiite Islamic scholars from 35 countries participated in this. Islam teaches against suicide clearly.

But what about a suicide bomber who blows himself up to kill Israelis? Is that justified or not? Here's what they had to say. 200 Islamic scholars from 35 countries. Stay tuned, I'll tell you what.

They said. God of light, hear our cry, send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Thanks, friends, for joining us on today's broadcast, coming your way live from Washington, D.C., getting ready to speak at a conference for the Friendly Research Council, Tony Perkins, this week before heading home. 866-348-7884.

Okay, I I want to get Back to England, Katie Hopkins, on Tucker Carlson in a moment. But first, here is what. 200 Islamic scholars in 2002 from 35 countries said about suicide bombers in Israel. Are you ready? So here are Muslims blowing themselves up to kill Jews in Israel.

The document stated this The actions of martyrdom of the mujahideen, the freedom fighters, are legitimate. and have their foundation in the Quran? and in the prophets' tradition. They represent the most sublime of martyrdoms because the Mujahideen accomplished them in full conscience and freedom of choice. That is their final statement.

That is part of their final document. That although suicide is prohibited by Islam, in these cases, It is legitimate. Notice. And these actions have their foundation in the Quran and in the Prophets' tradition. Could it be any more clear than that?

This is at the very least a valid expression of Islam. And because it's just on all fronts. where Islam is threatened by the world and worldliness? Then you carry out these acts on all fronts. 2001.

Another prominent Muslim leader from Egypt, Yusuf al Karadawi, He claimed, quote, Nobody can declare that it is unlawful to fight with all means against the Israeli occupation. And he wrote Jihad on the way to God and in the defense of the country, of homeland, and of sacred things, is today an obligation for all Muslims more than in any other period in the past. And he made clear this did not just apply, quote, in Palestine, it applied also in Kashmir and in other hot spots in the world. Noted Muslim leaders saying, go ahead and blow yourself up and kill civilians in the name of Allah because we are at war. and it is justified.

Yes, that is sick. And yes, that is part of Islamic ideology.

So if it is an aberration, then let every Muslim around the world that is a true Muslim fight against it. And if it's not an aberration, then own up to it and say, We have a sick religion. Is that too much to ask? All right, so Katie Hopkins, she is a journalist and on TV in England. She's conservative.

And she tweeted out her pain. With the heart of the people of England over the Manchester bombing. She tweeted that out. And then. She said we need a final solution.

And people went crazy over that. I mentioned the tweets yesterday on the air. People went crazy over that. And then she changed it to say true solution. I did not think that she intentionally said.

That she was calling for the extermination of Muslims. I think she said final solution the way I once did in a scholarly paper that I read at a conference, a scholarly conference, this particular difficult Hebrew phrase towards a final solution. And I thought, well, I said a final solution? I meant, you know, the final solution to figure out what the Hebrew said. I thought, yikes, you don't use the term final solution because of what it means.

So I believe she just meant we need a true solution. We need some final answer. But here's a glimpse. of what life has become like. because of radical Islamic terror.

Clip number five, this is Katie Hopkins talking to Tucker Carlson. My children at breakfast this morning said, You know what? I'd much rather be shot than caught in a bomb that's made of ball bearings. And I just wonder, you know, what conversation are we having here in 21st century Britain when that's what children are growing up with? Children are growing up with terror being normal and a man planting a bomb filled with nuts in bolts when they're out having fun.

That's normal in Britain. And we brought that war into our country, we brought that war on. onto our pavements, onto our streets, and I don't hear anybody still, no politicians standing up and saying, I am sorry, we were wrong, we are going to change what we have done. Islamic extremism can be done. They're investigating you for your tweets in the country that gave the rest of us freedom of speech.

Yeah, exactly. What did she tweet? How about who who did the bombing? And how about how how many mosques support it? And and and how here, if if you have friends.

In Muslim England. If you have friends that that support this, you've got to do something about it. You've got to speak up. You've got to let it be known. If the leader of your mosque supports this, you've got to tell the government and the government's got to do something about it.

Not in our country. You're going to aid the bed terrorist. You're going to support it. You're going to cheer it. Then you don't have the right to be here.

That's fair. That's very fair in my view. I'm saying exterminate the people. I'm saying if you are in our country and you are celebrating the murder of children and you are aiding it, abetting it in any way, you don't deserve to be in this country. You go back to your homeland or or receive some other type of punishment.

But you don't sit there and cheer on the slaughter of little children and then have, okay, just keep coming in, coming in, coming in. There's got to be a way to approach this. And let's continue the discussion. Clip number six, again, Katie Hopkins on Tucker Carlson. The establishment are now on the side of anything that represents diversity or indeed Muslims supporting Islam.

We immediately have we immediately say the Greater Manchester Head of Police came out this evening and said, you know, we will not tolerate hate against the Muslim community. And for so many of us, we're kind of saying, well, it's okay then we will tolerate our little girl, eight-year-old girls, being slaughtered as they leave a concert, but we won't tolerate hate speech. That seems to be where we're at in the UK. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

So The deal is That It is a greater sin. to judge evil as evil. Then to Be evil. or commit evil acts. That's that's what it's come down to.

It is a greater sin to judge Evil. as evil. to recognize it, to identify it, to speak against it. to call for action against it. Then Two Commit the evil act itself.

It's almost like that's where the greater focus is. It is sick. And to be clear. I'm not saying here in America. If there's a terrorist attack and you've got an American citizen and they say, good, those people got what they deserve, we don't have the right to deport that person.

We don't have the right to imprison that person for having a wrong attitude, but you better believe they should be watched and monitored. And if they're part of a group that holds to these things, they should be watched and monitored very, very carefully and very, very closely. and any steps they take towards potential acts of violence should be noted all the more clearly so as to stop them before they do it. And if they are in the process of getting citizenship, And express these kinds of things, they don't have a right to be here. And by all means, we don't open the doors to those who want to come here and kill us.

Is that clear?

Alright friends, be sure to go to askdrbrown.org. Sign up to get my emails. I want to equip you for these evil days, these difficult days. Jesus said that his sheep hear his voice. What exactly does that mean?

It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. You know, one of the great things about the Line of Fire broadcast is that we cover lots of ground. And one day we may spend answering your Bible questions. One day we may spend focusing on Israel and the Jewish people.

One day we may spend talking about moral and cultural issues in America. One day we may spend looking at what's happening all around the world. We just finished one hour talking more about radical Islamic terrorism. Talking about what Muslims must do in response to this, what the West must do in response to this. talking more about the pain England is suffering right now.

And I do want to comment briefly on President Trump's comments in Israel. But we're going to switch gears in this hour, as many of you are joining me right now live all across the country. And listening on internet around the world, we're going to switch gears totally. And I am going to speak with Professor Leonard Sweet. He and my friend Frank Viola have co-authored a book, Jesus Speaks.

And we're going to totally change gears from the pain and difficulty of the terrorist attack and the questions of radical Islam. We're going to change gears entirely and talk about how you and I can hear The voice. of God. in the midst of the chaos, the craziness that is all around us. We need to learn to hear the voice of God.

Is it only through the Bible? Is it only through the written word? Are there other ways that we hear the voice of God, an audible voice, an internal voice, dreams, visions, circumstances? How do we know? We'll talk about that with Professor Leonard Sweet in just a few minutes, but I want to briefly comment.

on President Trump's keynote address On Israel. By the way, he yes, he did have a slight glitch sitting with Israeli leaders and saying, Yeah, we just came from the Middle East, from Saudi Arabia. And you could see the ambassador, our ambassador to the States, Ron Dremer, just kind of looks like, oh boy, then just. Takes his hand on his face and just turns it into like he's fixing his hair and apparently, Mr. President, you are in the Middle East.

You are in the Middle East. It's amazing.

So, media is focusing more on that or Melania Trump not holding Donald Trump's hand when they get off the plane. And that's the big focus. No focus on what the president's doing. He's acting in a statesmanlike way. And by the way, at the wall, praying at the Western Wall in Jerusalem.

Ask God for wisdom, the first sitting president to ever visit. the western wall, the cotel. And Yeah, that's a good prayer to pray. And I believe. He's a God-free man.

I don't have any indication actually he knows the Lord or is born again. But I believe he's a God-fearing man. Maybe it's deeper than that. But with all of his faults and foibles and weaknesses, I believe he's a God-fearing man. Uh Aaron Klein on Breitbart.com lists six points.

That he feels are important in Trump's speech. One, he affirmed the Jewish people's ancient and eternal ties to the land of Israel. That's one, that's major two. He explained that in the heart of the tyrannical Middle East, Jews, Christians, and Muslims live freely in the one democracy in the region. Three Trump pledged to always stand with Israel.

Four. Trump hinted at the possibility of a larger regional peace between Israel and the Sunni Arab nations. Contrary to all evidence, Klein reminds us, Trump claimed Abbas said the Palestinians are, quote, ready to reach for peace. Again, Aaron Klein says that is contrary to all evidence. And six, Trump pledged his firm commitment to ensuring that Iran does not obtain a nuclear weapon and halting Tehran's support for terrorists.

So overall, aside from the questionable statement about the Palestinians and the desire for peace, much that is positive in that statement. All right, back with Leonard Suite. O God of burning, cleansing flame. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Now, I have a choice to make. I could spend the next 20 minutes reading the biography.

Of my guest, Professor Leonard Sweet. I give you the short version of who he is, just in case you haven't read one of his 50 or so books or. Hundreds of articles or listen to his many messages that are online.

So, I'm going to give you the short version. Leonard Sweet, theologian, semiotician, church historian, pastor, and author. That's the way Wikipedia sums it up. But looking at this bio, that's a pretty good little summary. He's currently the East Stanley Jones Professor of Evangelism at Drew Theological School at Drew University.

He's ordained the United Methodist Church. I think I first started to come across his writings with his Soul Tsunami book some years ago, but he's co-authored now three books with my friend Frank Viola, the most recent being Jesus Speaks. And we want to talk about Jesus speaking today. Hey, Len, welcome to the line of fire. Thanks for joining us today.

Great to be with you, Michael. Thank you for having me. Hey, give me the short version. What makes you tick? Who are you in God and what makes you tick?

Mm.

Well, I I'm basically an evangelist who Want everybody everybody out there, especially. those in this Yeah. That is forming around us to know who Jesus is, and all I try and do is to lift him, lift him. him up in a variety of ways. And uh and then shut up.

and uh just point to him.

So that's my major ambition in Yeah. And you do it both in the academic setting and in the popular setting. How do you manage to walk in those two worlds at the same time? Yeah, it's a it's a it's a tightrope, um but I um I have a real desire to lift them up in the Academy and a real desire to lift them up in that. In the in the church.

So I have this uh kind of bifocal Um existence and and love. Uh I love scholarship. I have I It's the greatest. We were celebrating this year Reformation 500. Luther was a scholar who lifted up Christ for his day, and Wesley was a scholar who.

Lifted up Christ for his day.

So these are my heroes and I just want to do a fraction of what they did for their day in this twenty first century with our twenty second century kids. Got it.

So you've written out three books together with Frank Feilen. It's really a trilogy, but each book stands on its own. This one, Jesus Speaks.

So Lynn, I was interacting with a cessationist, with someone who doesn't believe in prophecy and gifts of the Spirit for today. And I said, look, Jesus told us that we hear his voice in John the 10th chapter. And this person responded with all sincerity. No, look at the context. This just talking about Jewish people, those who recognize him as the Messiah and those who don't.

And I said, so once we recognize him, it ends there. Do you believe that in an ongoing way, God's people should hear the voice of God? Absolutely. And this is, I don't know why and how people can think not. Jesus themselves said the It's good for you that I go away.

I'm going to be president. with you and for you in a whole new way. And um Any He said, greater things will you do. than um than I have done. And Because of the power of the Holy Spirit.

At working in and through you. And I think what what happens is that people fail to keep together three things that cannot be separate. Michael and and I call it this the holy break. There's three things that you cannot separate. I mean, there's nothing stronger than a braided rope, there's nothing stronger than this holy grave.

One tassel. One part of the braid becomes Um separated the whole the whole thing unravels. And the holy braid is there are three things that you cannot separate. And that is Jesus, the scriptures And the Holy Spirit. The purpose of the Holy Spirit is to point to Christ and what brings Christ to life.

is the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Jesus.

So those three things. Um always belong together. They need to be graded so that you can't talk about one. without talking about the other. And if you keep that braid in mind, And that's always present with you.

Um it is, I mean This is the incredible, radical, revolutionary message of the gospel. Jesus wants to live his resurrection life in and through you. He is alive. We serve a risen Savior. He's in the world today.

Come on, wake up, church. When I came to faith in 1971 as a heroine shooting LSD using hippie rock drummer, 16 years old Jewish kid, those are the songs that we sang in the church. He lives, he lives. He asked me how I know he lives. He lives in me today.

And yes, we understood the Bible is the word of God. That stands on its own by itself in that regard. Nothing else is the word of God. But we were told that... we would have a living relationship with him.

And in fact, it's not that someone told us this is what's going to happen. It's that we experience that new life. And in the book, Jesus speaks, do you give practical Guidelines for people to cultivate a deeper relationship with the Lord so that they can have genuine fellowship with the Holy Spirit. And that that's what Frank did so brilliantly, I think, in this. And when people discover Frank Country, To what it means to practice the living presence of Christ and to hear Him speaking every day.

It uh there's no going back. And uh what I do in the book is I do the biblical exegesis and Um I'd look at all the stories of Jesus' post-resurrection Appearances and the difficulty the disciples had in hearing Jesus and recognizing Jesus and Seeing that it's many cases it the our same problem today. Their problem is our problem. But then what Frank does is he brings it home. The rubber hits the road with Frank.

Yeah, the board gun. And Frank justification. shows you how on a daily basis. What you can do. The practices of the presence of Jesus on a daily basis.

So absolutely. This is Jesus is still speaking.

Now, he's not going to speak contrary to his. Through the scriptures, that's fine. And How do we know it's Christ, then that's the function of the Holy Spirit. My friends, to find out more, go to jesuspeaks.me. Jesus speaks.me.

M-E.

So, Lynn, for those that think sola scriptura means that God will never speak outside of the Bible, that if he speaks outside of the Bible, that it's new revelation and it's adding to the Bible as an exegete. as someone who spends time opening up the scriptures and explaining what they mean, address that concern that many sincere Christians have.

Well I I think they confuse uh lo logos. It is one of the most It's incredibly complex.

Sophisticated word in the Greek language. And we have so mistranslated it as nothing but word. I mean, and that's the problem. The word became. More words, and people think that it's all Jesus entombed in these words.

The actual logos means it has an oral component to it, and that's where the hearing comes in. Yeah. is God speaks, God God voices, God uh so it's all about uh the continuing voice that you can hear of God. Um Today, even. True, these words, if you will, these biblical words, but these words are not words, these are stories.

And this is. Uh this is what, um the modern world did to us, the Gutenberg world did to us. It gave us all an acute case of what I call burstitis. I mean, uh everybody thinks this The default setting for accessing the Scriptures is chapter. Yeah but The Bible wasn't written in chapters and verses.

The Bible's written in stories and Poems. ladders and Dawn. And We have so left that Michael, that we are we are um Uh we don't understand that you You live these stories. Yeah. In many ways, you you know from your Jewish background, every Jewish child At the table, learn.

That these are my story. It's not a story that happened to Abraham. This is a story that happened to me. Your life is a continuation of that story.

So that is what we're talking about here, is that these stories continue to live and to percolate. uh and to manifest themselves. in our life. And we are um A continuation of these stories. Our life is a continuation of these stories.

Um and the word author. All right. and authority are basically the same word. And and it could be The question of life is: whoever is your author, whoever you're allowed to author your story, is your authority in life. And um Bye.

Only let's say that Jesus, author, my story, which means he is my authority. But that story continues. His story. continues in my life and is part of my history. My history is his story in my flesh.

Blood.

So that's why it's a living presence. It's not as if, you know, these stories are spoken of once they're over. No, these stories are living stories. This is a living word of God, the living story. The scriptures are alive.

And uh they want to live in me and in you and So this idea that God's word is in Tomb the these words and They're all involved now. Oh, it's a living.

So what you're saying is then through the Bible itself, Not just through I had a dream last night or I saw a vision, but through the Bible itself, God's living word is continuing to speak to us that a living. and relevant way. I've got more practical questions when we come back. My guest, Professor Leonard Sweet. With Frank Viola, the book, Jesus Speaks, go to jesuspeaks.me.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUT. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Thanks friends for joining us on the line of fire today. By the way, have you downloaded the line of fire app? for your iPhone yet? iPhone, iPad, do it today. Just go to in the app store, The Line of Fire with Dr.

Michael Brown or Line of Fire with Michael Brown. You'll find it. This way you can listen to the show two full hours from anywhere in the world. Listen live, catch up with recent podcasts, even call in from the app. If you have an Android phone, download the Ask Dr.

Brown app, A-S-K-D-R Brown for Android. I'm speaking with Professor Leonard Sweet together with Frank Viola. They've written Jesus Speaks, the website jesuspeaks.me. And by the way, If I ever have a guest on to talk about a book, I do it because I think it would be of interest to you, our listeners. But some books are of greater appeal to me that I think, boy, I want to read that.

And that's what happened when I was looking at this book by Leonard Sweet and Frank Viola.

So, Lynn, if I am. If I'm Listening to the show, and I say, you know, I, yeah, I know the Bible is true. I know Jesus rose from the dead, but do I have a relationship with God the way I have a relationship with my spouse or my best friend? No, it's more kind of a formal thing. You know, I hold to theological truths.

Obviously, it's good to hold to theological truths, but is that what God has in store for us, just that in this world?

Well, and that that's a misreading of the incarnation too. is that God didn't send us the scripture. Statement. Got tennis. Savior, Michael, who is Christ the Lord.

God didn't send us more principles and propositions. God sent us a person. Who is Jesus? the Christ. Your Your joy and mine.

is not is not just two. spend our life trying to um Uh mimic him, but to manifest. Him through the power of the Spirit in our daily life. And that is the That's the incredible promise here of Jesus and his post-resurrected appearances. I'm going to.

Be um I've got to be calm. Present to you in a whole new form. And let me give you an example. Think if Jesus had not ascended and is now sitting at the right hand of God the Father. Think if he's still here in his uh resurrection body.

All right. Can you imagine the line of people waiting to see him? Yeah. Yeah. How many months or years would you and I give up, would I give up to be able to have a few minutes with Jesus?

Well, I I give up a year or more or more. I mean, just Just just to be able to be Well, that's what he's saying. He's saying, no, it's good for you that I go away because I am going to be present. in a whole new way. My living resurrection White.

I'm going to share with you so that Everything I did. You can do? I mean, this is these are the radical words that it's hard for us to hear. But Through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Now, this doesn't mean we get to be God. No, no, no. Jesus came to show us how to be human. But also unique feature of human is you can't be human without the divine. And that divine breath, that divine spirit.

that is still with us, enabling us to be fully human Is Jesus showed us what it meant to be fully human. And that's the relationship that. can have it It's an indwelling presence of the very risen Christ. And that that's the word Christian means the little Christ. I mean, w there's only one big day.

One big Jesus. But we're all little J. We are all little Christs. struggling to be The greater and greater. Knowing that we will all fall short.

only one Jesus, but we are all called to be Jesus. Little cart. Yeah, we are we are part of his body, are we not? That means something. All right, so your role in the Jesus Speaks book was practical theology.

And friends, if you've never read any Leonard Sweet books, the well-known books, they're very readable. He can be a heady theologian, but the books are very readable.

So, here, in a readable way, you open up what Scripture says, not so much with proof texts, but again, to bring us into a relationship with the living God and His living word. Frank Viola does the practical. How to, how to implement this. But since Frank's not here today and you are, could you just give our listeners one or two thoughts in terms of: all right, I want to learn to hear the voice of God, I want to learn to grow in deeper fellowship. If Jesus is speaking, I want to be listening and responding.

What insights would you share?

Well, one of the things that both I show and Frank show uh in the book is that One of the problem, every time Jesus appeared, the disciples failed to. recognize him.

Okay. Every time he appeared, They at first failed to recognize. Recognize him because he didn't, first of all, he didn't appear like they expected him to.

So if you want to receive, if you're Looking For Jesus and Mm-hmm. You can't go on, okay, this is where I predict or I expect these Going to appear and speak to me. He, it is so, Jesus. Uh that's one of my favorite phrases. That is so Jesus.

It is so Jesus to appear and manifest himself where and when we. Least expected. Jesus turns everything upside down. I mean, what's the symbol of the Holy Spirit. You'd think it would be the bald eagle or the golden eagle or some beautiful.

Beautiful. No, it's It's a white pigeon. Mm-hmm. That's what a dove is. There's no bird in nature called a dove, it's a white pigeon.

I mean, it's a trash bird. That is so Jesus. Symbol of the spirit. Use that. What's the most talked about animal in the Bible besides the lamb?

The donkey, not the stallion. The steed. It's the donkey. That is so Jesus. So when.

You've got to be prepared. to receive Jesus. and his his voice. And to hear it in the most unlikely, unexpected places and people. Yeah, and that of course throws us off our throne a little bit.

It does. And because I want it. I remember years back going on roller coasters with my daughters when they were little. And then we were going to go horseback riding. My wife and daughters love to ride horses.

And I remember I sat on the horse and I was looking for the seat belt. Because I was used to being strapped in on the roller, but there's no seat belt on the horse, and it's kind of like that, isn't it? Yeah. It's a great metaphor. It is.

Yeah. Yeah. No Z-belt. It is one of you want bumpy ride, but That is just The other thing Frank does really well is He shows how we got to be careful. The way he puts it is just because.

The person who Who speaks has the perfect voice doesn't mean we have the perfect ears. And so we can hear things. That aren't what was spoken or what was meant. And he uses a couple of illustrations as well. like all the disciples saying, well, Jesus told John he's never going to.

Die. And uh finally Jesus said, No, no, no, I You didn't hear me right. listen more carefully. We got these checks and balances to make Sure. And that's the importance of the scriptures.

What we're hearing. Doesn't uh contradiction you make no way counterman. delivered to us. In his in the sacred text. Yeah, absolutely.

And I often remind the Lord, I'm just an ignorant sheep. I don't know much. I don't hear well. But you speak. You know how to speak.

In such a way to get me to hear, and that's that's the wonder of our shepherd. Friends, the book Jesus Speaks, check it out. Go to jesuspeaks.me. Hey, Lynn, thanks for spending time with us. I look forward to meeting you face to face one of these days.

Douglas. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. You know what, I had something delightful happen today. I'm not going to mention names, but I want to talk about it. I don't want to talk right now about terrorism.

Don't want to talk right now about the state of America. Don't want to talk right now about radical Islam. I want to talk about Relationships within the body of Christ, within the Messiah's body. This is Michael Brown. You're listening to the line of fire coming away live from Washington, D.C.

Coming away live from Orlando, Florida, yesterday, from Washington, D.C. today. But not mentioning names at all. It's positive, by the way. It's positive.

There is a pastor of a major church who recently had someone come in. that was controversial. I'm talking about a mega, mega church and a very well-connected pastor. You recently had someone come in and speak That Uh is very controversial. and that under no circumstances would I have stand behind my pulpit.

or I don't pastor church, but where I have leadership responsibility. would not have them in unless I was having a debate with them. But so I was concerned that they had him in. And I was thinking about writing about it, addressing it, but... Wanted to find out more.

And we contacted the church. My sister Dylan reached out to the church.

Now bear in mind this is a church of many, many thousands of people. one of many mega churches in America. One of many where the pastor is high profile and very well known. And we reached out. And had no idea if they had any idea who I was.

and immediately got a response from the senior pastor's executive assistant. You kidding me? Not just from somebody else on staff or somebody saying, sorry, we're not going to communicate with you. I'm talking about. the senior pastor's executive assistant wrote back immediately Wanted to reaffirm clearly what they do believe and what they do hold to, and what the purpose of this speaker coming in was, and what they hold to is godly and right and true.

And I still had concerns, of course, about it. Uh Then I was sent a clip of some interaction that took place during the night. that further raised concerns for me.

So we got an immediate response from the executive assistant that was gracious and thanking us for reaching out and reaffirming their position very clearly without ambiguity. That was wonderful. Thank God for that.

So then when I actually saw the clip, I thought, all right, how do you reconcile these? How can they be so clear on this and yet have this fellow here speaking?

So we followed up with a further question for clarification. And I just included, I had my assistant include my phone number in the event that anyone there wanted to contact me. and immediately got a call. We set up a time and got a call from the senior pastor himself, who was as open and humble and gracious as could be. You say, well, what's such a big deal about that?

I mean, Dr. Brown, you have your platform and you're well known and he's well known. No, he had no idea who I was. He had no idea who I was. I mean, I was a stranger to him before today.

And yet. Because of the concerns that are raised, and because he cares about these concerns. He called me. To have an honest talk. and to reiterate as plainly and clearly where his church stands, And then to welcome any input that I could give that would be of interest.

You don't often see that kind of humility. or that kind of accessibility. And let me be totally candid. In a church of that size, He would have requests day and night for people to talk to him and maybe could speak to one in a thousand and one in ten thousand. Stuff comes our way through our ministry.

And it's very rare that I can reply directly. Every so often I'll tell my assistant if something does get to me, otherwise others in our team will answer it. Hey, I want to speak to that person directly. The fact that he did this speaks a lot about Integrity and leadership. and the type of thing that could avoid a lot of pain, a lot of strife, a lot of division in the body.

So I'm very thankful for that and hopefully our dialogue behind the scenes will be fruitful. We'll be right back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Alright, so let's revisit a subject. that I believe is very important in the body today. Which is The difference between discernment and destructive criticism. The difference between discernment and rejecting the voice of the Spirit.

The difference between discernment And Cynicism, skepticism. You're listening to the line of fire. This is Michael Brown. And In the remainder of this broadcast, if you have any question for me whatsoever. regarding the things of the Spirit.

regarding my views of the Holy Spirit. regarding my understanding of the gifts of the Spirit today. Regarding some guests that I've had on this broadcast or folks I've interacted with, Or movements that I have or have not interacted with, give me a call, 866-348-7884. My goal is to help. I am not using the platform of this radio show to bully and attack others.

I'm not using our internet platforms and book platforms and preaching platforms that God has graciously given us, TV platforms, whatever platforms he's given us. Each of us has a sphere of influence. Each of us is accountable to God for what we do with that sphere of influence, be it large or small, and God only knows. what the real influence is. The ones that seem to have the smallest influence may have the greatest influence in God's sight.

But with the platforms God has graciously given us, I do not use them as bully pulpits to attack others. And where I do have concerns, I'll speak candidly and freely, but always with the goal of building up. If I tear down error, I want to build up truth. I'm not out to stir up controversy and make a name for myself as God's policeman. and I'm here to correct every error in the body.

Well, then, who's going to correct me? You know, then who's going to correct my arrogance for thinking I'm the man? God's policeman is the Holy Spirit and the word of God in that respect, okay, if error is going to be exposed. And we are watchmen on the wall, and we are serving and doing our best to address error and to build up the body at the same time. But I'll give you an example of why I bring this up.

I noticed someone had posted a review on our Facebook page, on the Ask Dr. Brown Facebook page. For some time, reviews were hidden from the page, so as they were being posted, I didn't see them. Facebook suggested that we use a different layout on our page. You know, they said for what you're doing.

So we just clicked on it, and next thing I noticed, reviews were appearing again.

So I'm just looking here. Let's see. There have been over 2,000 reviews of the page. And by the way, it's just how people are being ministered to it, what they think of it. I care about God's evaluation.

If I had 100 million people praising me and God against me, I'd be on my face weeping in repentance. If if I have a a hundred million people uh Uh Against me and God for me, I'd be praying for them and rejoicing. But let's see, out of the reviews, one and a half thousand or five star. and 292 or one star. Yeah, there's polarization.

Right? That's to be expected with our calling and the ministry that we have. But one fellow wrote a review, and it was graciously worded. And he said, this page along with Dr. Brown's show really needs to undergo a name change.

Might I suggest it be changed to ask Dr. Brown anything except to take an intellectually and biblically honest look at the teachings of his favorite charismatic leaders. And then he says, I, along with many others, once considered Dr. Brown to be a refreshing voice of reason no longer, he has become the most ardent defender of the worst aspects within the charismatic camp, refuses to give honest consideration to any positions which differ from his own.

Well, that's blatant falsehood. I mean, it's 100%. falsehood That statement. the most ardent defender of the worst aspects of the charismatic camp, it's false, and refuses to give honest consideration to any positions which differ from his own.

So I give honest consideration to positions that differ from my own day and night. Day and night. Constantly. Constantly. So I actually took time because of, and the person goes on graciously.

I reached out and wrote back. and have a herd back.

So what I found interesting is that Here I'm saying, hey, let me interact with you, friend. Thanks for your being gracious where you are, but you wrote some things that are blatantly false. Isn't bearing false witness something serious in God's sight? Yes, right? Isn't writing something false about a brother or sister serious?

In fact, let me ask you a question. Let's say you were at a... Pentecostal charismatic service. And maybe people speaking in tongues loudly. and going on for a minute or two and there's no interpretation or anything and you think, well, that's out of order.

Okay, what do you think would be worse? that the tongues were out of order in a Pentecostal charismatic service. Or that you went out of there and posted on the internet, these people are demonized and they're speaking by demonic spirits. What do you think would be worse than God's sight? Oh, the latter, for sure.

For sure. When Paul saw lack of order in Corinth, he didn't say, you're of the devil. I didn't say that. He said you're out of order. He thanked God for the gifts of the Spirit in their midst, but he said, you're out of order.

And then he corrected it, but first praised them for not falling behind in any spiritual gift.

So What I find interesting is I have whole broadcasts where I ask people who differ with me to call in. Where, for example, when I had Pastor Bill Johnson on my show from Bethel. He had written a new book and the publisher said, would you like to have them on? I said, yeah, but here's the condition. that I'm going to open the phones for people to call in who differ with him, who are critical.

and that I will also ask him as a friend about concerns. What about this? What about that? And he answered certain things. Yeah, so people were doing this in our midst and we immediately shut it down.

It's wrong. I don't know where they're getting that from. No, we don't believe this. No, we don't believe that. No, this was said.

Yes, one of our people said that, but it's wrong, and we don't say it anymore. But nobody called that day. I opened the phones the se uh three times I opened the phones for people to call. with critical interaction and finally got people to call. Why am I doing that?

Just show, you're stupid, I'm smart, you're stupid. No, just say, let's interact. Maybe what you heard is false. For example, Bethel promotes grave sucking. where people go to the graves of former Christian leaders and suck the anointing off of them.

Some people actually did that. And when senior Bethel leadership heard about it, Chris Vallatin wrote about it immediately on Facebook and said, where did anybody get this? This is completely wrong. No, we don't believe in this. No, we don't practice it.

No, we don't repudiate it. Yes, we repudiate it. It's wrong. And then Bill Johnson said, yeah, when he heard it about it, he said, of course it's wrong and it's contrary to Scripture and why would anyone do that?

So it happened because there are many thousands of people that go to that church or been through the school or associated with sister churches and leaders renounced it, said, yeah, it's happened.

Some people from our midst did it, but where they got it from, we don't know, but it's wrong and we speak against it, we renounce it.

Okay, so, and then other things, maybe we have a difference. But we do it to dispel rumors. Here, look. I a few times played clips from Benny Hinn. Talking about we are little gods.

And I was using it to illustrate a point about an extreme teaching and a false teaching. I didn't realize that he had repudiated that teaching, I think, in 93, so almost 25 years ago. He had said it, but he renounced it as erroneous.

Now, do I agree with everything Benny Hidden says or does? No. I've taken issue with certain things Benny Hin says or does. I appeared on his broadcast for certain reasons. Was it a good move to appear on it to get our message out and talk about the real kosher Jesus or not?

You could debate that. whether it was good or not to do it. Fine, we can debate that. But what what concerns me is I've had people say, you know, I was really blessed by your ministry. All your books on answering Jewish objections to Jesus.

and all your books on cultural illusions, but I can't use them anymore because you're charismatic. God help you. God help you, friend. You're you are you're not just throwing out the baby with the bath water. You're you're throwing out good bath water as well.

And that is something that I carry as a concern. Look, look, let me be clear. You're not hurting me if you don't read my book. I wrote the book to help you. You're not hurting me.

If you turn off the radio, because I'm on the radio. to help you. I'm not writing the book to make money. I'm not on the radio to make money. To the contrary, It costs us money.

We have to raise money to be on. the radio. I am not here. to please critics, meaning, no, I will not go down your checklist and say this one's wrong, this one's wrong, this one's wrong, I don't agree with this, I don't agree with this. That's not my calling and my ministry.

Otherwise, that's all I do every day. Because you're going to call in, okay, where do I differ with John MacArthur? He's not, all right, here's where I differ with John MacArthur. Here's what I like, here's what I differ with.

Okay, what about Mike Bickle?

Okay, here's what I agree with, here's what I don't agree with.

Okay, what about Hank Hatigraph?

Okay, here's what I agree with, here's what I don't agree with.

Okay, what about John Piper? What about that? What about that? Okay, and then, okay, what about this? I show this preacher on TBN.

I am not here to be God's policeman. But if, listen, friends. We have an open radio program. Rather than just preaching on the radio and teaching, we have an open radio program where we pay for airtime so you can call in. If you have valid concerns or questions, Give me a call.

Maybe I can help you understand something. Maybe you can enlighten me. Maybe we'll agree to disagree. All right, I'm going to the phones as soon as we come back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to the line of fire 866-3487.

884 number to call. Hey, one more reminder, because I know some of you, you flip the car on, you flip the radio on the car, you get to listen to five, eight minutes of the broadcast.

So sometimes I'll repeat something over the course of two hours on the air for that reason. Our app is now available for iPhones, the line of fire.

So just search in the app store, line of fire with Michael Brown. And this way you can listen on your iPhone wherever you are at any time, two hours a day. You can also catch up with recent podcasts there. And while you're listening, just bang, click on the phone. You can call in right from the app.

If you have an Android phone, it's the Ask Dr. Brown app, A-S-K-D-R Brown on Android. That'll also connect you with my articles, videos, and things like that. All right, 866-348-7884. We go to Louisiana.

Chad, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Doctor Brown. Hey. Um I I had a question about I help lead worship in my church. I'm not the head person at all.

Sometimes there's an issue where a song comes up and I'm asked to sing that I don't I can't get behind what the lyrics say. Um How do I approach that with I know how to do it with respect, but I don't want to just be somebody who's a dissenter or somebody like you were saying is just hypercritical or anything like that. But I also don't want to just be the guy that toes the line. You know how do I differentiate between the two? And Approach that in a healthy way.

Yeah, well You're at the right starting point because you're asking the question, as opposed to just assuming, well, I'm always right and everybody's wrong, or it's my way or the highway, or our church is compromising, or whatever, that you want to do things in the right way, and you want to maintain integrity before God. And of course in ministry, all of us go through that unless we are the senior person. Then, even then, we might be under denominational head or some other regional leadership, and we have to balance those things.

Okay, this. Troubles me. I can't do this in good conscience. I remember a song being introduced at my home church some years ago. And I'm the founder of the ministry there, so even though I'm not the pastor, I carry a lot of weight.

And I didn't like one lyric in it. It wasn't a theological error. It's just I didn't like the expression. I thought the imagery was wrong. And a few of us talked about it and said, okay, we'll make a change here.

So what you do is first, you always keep an honoring attitude towards authority, right? And people know that. Hey, Chad's not a troublemaker. Chad's not Mr. Wright.

He's not negative, dogmatic, critical all the time.

So they know that that should be part of your persona. that you're loving. that you're affirming and encouraging, that you love authority and submit to it. but that you've got integrity. And what you need to say is If this comes up, to just sit down with the worship leader, or if that's not the appropriate one with the senior pastor and say, hey, I don't want to be disruptive.

But I'm having a problem with this theologically. I don't agree. with this um with this doctrinally. Can you give me an example of a lyric that troubled you? Yes, sir.

Well, okay.

So actually, the lyric in question is. Um Uh it it's it's a I don't necessarily disagree with the lyric theologically. Like, the lyric is. His grace empowers me to win. Right.

Which I agree with that in a sense of, yes, his grace empowers us to win over sin, to conquer for his kingdom. I get that. But just the nature of the song. And, like, what you were even saying, about it's almost kind of glib. It's kind of like, yeah, his grace empowers me to win, like the American Dream kind of deal.

And I'm like, something in me just. I'm like, it's it's so much more than empowering me to win at whatever I endeavored. You know what I mean? Like that's not the only thing. Yeah, so Yeah, in a case like that First I would ask uh if the song itself doesn't make things clear.

If the worship leader or pastor feels good about it, could one of them give a clarifying comment you know during the worship or afterwards?

Sometimes that's sufficient, and then that's going to drill it home.

Okay, win in this sense, win in the sense of overcoming sin. win in the sense of not bowing down to the spirit of the world as opposed to You know, I'm going to score 100 points in the basketball game because his grace empowers me to win.

Sometimes just say, hey, would you mind doing that? Is sufficient, and now you can sing it. in the positive sense that perhaps it was meant but not expressed clearly. If Uh, if they just said no, we that would distract from it or something, uh, unless you were the just say, Well, don't don't ask me to lead that one, all right? Because I just kind of you know look down and you know, during that, not be disruptive, but just kind of quietly sit it out, you know.

Yeah. That's that's where I am. I've uh I've spoken he's actually a very good friend of mine, so we have really good candor between the two of us. Um, and he was like, Man, I think you're overthinking it. And I'm like, I that's possible, that's very possible.

I just there it's something irks me when we're singing praise and worship to God and we Focus the primary thing on us and how we're great and how we get to. You know, I just I'm like, yeah, it's just kind of low. I don't know. That's just an ongoing conversation, Chad, to have in terms of, hey. Let's think about what we're singing.

Is it pointing to Jesus? Is it pointing to the cross? A lot of our singing has been about me and how this affects me, and there's gospel truth in that, but a lot of it. You're right. It's about me.

And just keep having fellowship over that. Uh You're in obviously a community where you know each other. Keep having fellowship over it. Look at some of the older hymns and where they pointed us and the theology that you'd learn through it. Say, hey, if somebody's coming here and the main thing they got was what we sang.

What kind of theology would they have? What would they believe? What would they understand? Because you don't just want it to be through the preaching only. Of course, that's going to be foundational, the preaching and teaching.

But what you sing as well, look, so much of my early experience in the Lord was learned through song. And and uh You're singing these little ditty hymns. It wasn't the quality of the music. I was used to Led Zeppelin dazed and confused and Jimi Hendrix Purple Haze and music so loud the building would basically shake.

Now it's these little ditty hymns, but boy, the message of the cross and the message of Jesus the Savior and the message of the blood and the joy that came to my heart. That's part of what God used to save me and transform me.

So I just keep fellowshipping over that. And if. Um If in any case there's there's um You know, a need to just sit out a lyric or something like that. There's a way to do it where you just kind of, you know, do it without being disruptive. You just look up to the Lord then or just look down and pray, you know, whatever.

So you don't want to do things in a way that's like, I'm protesting. I am protesting. I don't like this. I am protesting. That's obviously not your heart.

But keep having the fellowship over it and see if they'll. put some qualifying remarks or maybe just re-look at some of the theology. behind it. Hey, thank you for Calling. I do appreciate it.

Hey, friends, we are out of time, but the good news is we have resources waiting for you on my website, askdrbrown.org, a-s-k-d-r-brown.org. When you sign up for my weekly updates, you get a free e-book.

So, if you haven't done that yet, go to askdrbrown.org and where it says email, just fill that in, and you will get a free e-book, Seven Secrets of the Real Messiah. Hey, coming next, Thursday, Jewish Thursday. See you tomorrow.