Well, the Southern Baptist Convention has officially reinforced its view that only men can be pastors.
Some are very pleased with this decision, saying it's biblical, and others are outraged, saying that they're trying to control women and hinder them from fulfilling the calling of God. How should we analyze this? Hey friends, Michael Brown here. Delighted to have this time together with you. My goal is to do my best.
to examine two sides of an argument here. I am not going to argue for one particular view or another. I do that all the time on things that are convictional to me. I do that all the time on many, many issues. And we have differences.
That's fine. I'm sure we're going to have differences after this. But my goal is to get us to step back. And try to understand Well the Southern Baptists came to their conclusions. and why some people are very upset about it, especially many women in ministry.
And you're going to see something really interesting. You're going to see that the sword of criticism cuts both ways. the sort of attack, the sort of criticism cuts both ways. Hey, a quick reminder. If you're interested in Jewish ministry, if you're interested in discovering more about Jesus being the Messiah, if you want to share that with your Jewish friends, we have a new YouTube channel exclusively devoted to that.
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It's the place to be to discover more about Jesus Yeshua being the Messiah of Israel. All right. I I want to make clear. that I serve as an apostolic elder at Mercy Culture Church based in Fort Worth, Texas, but with about 10 campuses now. And I don't know of any church in America that is more empowering of women in ministry.
and has female pastors on the staff. female leaders serving in all different capacities. The elders are couples, husbands, and wives.
So I'm an apostolic elder. There, some of you already know that. And you might think, oh, well, well, that means your view is only one way and you're already prejudiced against the Southern Baptist Convention. Oh, no, not at all. That's just full disclosure.
For those that think, oh, I only believe in men doing ministry or male pastors or things like that. And, oh, okay, I'm not stating what I do or don't believe, but I want you to know. that I serve as an external elder with a growing church in America with multiple campuses that absolutely empowers women and believes in female pastors.
So here's where I want to start. Both sides can make a biblical case for their views. No, that's not you, Brown, you don't know anything. Oh, okay, just give me a moment here before you react. I believe based on my own studies, looking at scripture.
different arguments that can be raised. That both sides can make a biblical case, and both sides can make an experiential case. And if we're going to get into a discussion about this. It's always good to try to understand someone else's perspective in the best possible way. One rabbi made the comment that it's not fair or right.
For us to take the best of our religion and compare it to the worst of someone else's religion. The same way We're not being fair or righteous if we take the best of our arguments and compare it to the worst of someone else's arguments. Let's look at the best arguments on both sides. And here's what's fascinating. I know one brother, careful student of the word, dug into this for months and months and months, did some teaching series online.
and said to me he was shocked. by how weak the position was for women in ministry. He was shocked by how weak the position is. Then I know others who are biblical scholars, I mean respected biblical scholars. that after years of study changed their minds and embraced the idea of women in ministry, even women pastors.
So it's important that we step back and realize that people are trying to act with good conscience before the Lord. My Southern Baptist brothers and sisters, who have come to these conclusions have done so prayerfully. studying scripture. studying church history. studying their understanding of male-female distinctives and roles, And have said, this is what we believe Scripture teaches.
If that's their conviction before God, It's not based on a desire to oppress women. It's not based on a desire to control women. It's not based on a desire to rob women of their calling. Rather, it's based on their understanding of scripture prayerfully. their understanding of church history and precedent.
their understanding of male-female calling and roles. then you may differ with it militantly. You might think it's absolutely wrong and ultimately hinders women from fulfilling their calling, but don't impose that on them. Don't make the assumption that that's their motivation. That's their desire.
Because you have people who love God and love the Word, who are Southern Baptists, and as they studied Scripture, it seems very clear to them in terms of women not having authority over men. It seems very clear to them about men being the head of the home and having an ultimate responsibility there and the same in the church. It seems clear to them that God in His wisdom has wired men and women differently with each unique callings and gifts, each one equally important. And based on their study of scripture, they've come to that conclusion. You can differ with it.
But you need to understand they're not just creating this out of thin air. Not just making up something that they can't find in the Bible. And they could say, look, Jesus chose all male apostles. You know, the 12 are apostles, all men. When he gives the qualifications for leaders in the Bible, you know, overseers and things like that, he says husband of one wife, not or wife of one husband, that it's presumed it's male and things like that, and that that's the pattern we have from the early church, and it's the overwhelming pattern through church history.
You have to respect that. even if you differ with it. Conversely, Conversely, If your view is You you've got th these these egot egatow egalitarian congregations. These congregations like Mercy Culture that believe in female pastors and empowering women, it's just like a feminist thing. It's just like a All that is is is is the women's movement.
Just women's lib in the church and destroying gender distinctions. It's got nothing to do with the Bible, nothing to do with God. If If that's your view, It also shows that you are not rightly understanding where they're coming from. and all the scriptural arguments they can bring. and the historical arguments they can bring.
and the experiential arguments they can bring. and how they can explain that they absolutely believe in gender distinctions. A church like Mercy Culture is on the front lines of pushing back against gay activism and trans activism and things like that, and absolutely believes in gender distinctions, and would affirm the husband as having the ultimate responsibility in the home and things like that. And what's interesting is that Southern Baptists are being savaged now. By many in the body, savaged for this primitive, backwards decision to oppress and control women.
That's how they're looking at it. What's fascinating is that Pastor Landon Femercy cultures told me that the thing that has gotten the most ridicule and attack since they started in Fort Worth a little over seven years ago. And he showed me the things that have been s said and the most ugly, horrific, nasty, mean-spirited attacks because they believe in empowering women in ministry.
So the sword cuts both ways. People are savaging each other both ways rather than saying, okay. Just like Calvinist Arminians. We have some very, very deep differences, but... I recognize Calvinists have come to these conclusions biblically.
and hopefully they recognize I've come to my conclusions biblically, even though we differ. When you start making value judgments about why people do what they do without specific first-hand knowledge, you are judging in a way that God forbids us from judging. That's the judgment of which Paul says in 1 Corinthians 4, judge nothing before the appointed time. You do not know. I do not know someone's motivation.
And I've got no business projecting that. If I have first-hand factual information, fine. Then we make good godly judgments based on that. But otherwise, we've got no business throwing these things around. You're just trying to control my, you're just into feminism, you know, either side.
Best to say, okay, explain to me why you feel the way you feel. Explain to me why you understand scripture to say these things. Hey, I'm wondering about this verse. How do you interpret this? and then listen to each other.
And hopefully. If the person you're talking to understands their position, you'll say, okay. I see you love the lore. I see you love the word, and you're just trying to honor him, and this is your position. I get it.
Respectfully, I differ. as opposed to tearing each other up with our judgments. Here's the other thing. If you are a woman in ministry, Whatever your role is, you've been called by God to do what you're doing. and you're doing it is unto him.
You think the Southern Baptists have totally missed it? Pray for them, but it doesn't hurt you. doesn't stop you, doesn't hinder you. doesn't get in your way. That doesn't stop you for a split second from fulfilling the calling of God on your life.
Conversely, If you're a woman in Southern Baptist circles and you absolutely affirm the decision that was made and you see these other women doing things that you think are out of order or out of place, pray for them, but it doesn't affect your life. It doesn't affect your walk.
So let's bless each other, pray for each other in the midst of the differences. If you actually believe that this is a matter of salvation, that you could lose your salvation or forfeit your salvation and not be saved at all if you have the wrong view on this, I would really challenge you to show me chapter and verse for that. I would really deeply challenge you to show me chapter and verse for that. Let me throw a few more thoughts out, okay? Yeah.
My own view is that the normal pattern of senior governmental authority is male. That's what you see in Scripture. Like in the Old Testament, you have a Deborah or someone like that. You have prominent women having key roles and having great influence. But the senior governmental male authority is overwhelmingly male in the Old Testament as well as in the New Testament.
as well as around the world today, if you look at world leaders. Even if you look at church leaders, so senior governmental authority. ruling the mail and and what I found interesting I've surveyed hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of ministry school students and sometimes couples in ministry. And I asked this question, asked women. I asked the men.
Now remember, these are all people in ministry or in ministry school believing they're called to ministry. And I asked the women. If you're married or or plan to be married. In the marriage, would you want the final weight of responsibility? the life and death decisions.
having to carry the life and death burdens that often come. the weight of finances and when there's pressure and someone has to carry it. Would you want to be the the one to carry it? Or would you prefer that your husband carried that? I don't know that I've seen one exception yet.
If I have, it's one or two. And years and years of asking the question. It's always the women like no, no, no, we want our husbands to carry that Virtually without exception. It's it's the way they're wired. And These are women who are called, some of them powerful preachers, some of them leaders.
In many ways. Then I asked the husbands the same question. And to my recognition, it's been 100% as well.
So if not.
So one or two.
So overwhelmingly or 100%, every man said, yeah, I feel that's my responsibility. In our home, Nancy is the strongest human being I know, the strongest-willed. The most determined The most immovable. when she believes something is right or wrong. And in terms of practical wisdom, Day-to-day decisions, things to figure out raising our kids.
Practical types of decisions. Probably 90% or more. I've gone her way because of her great practical wisdom. But she won a hundred per cent. wants me to be the head of the home.
She 100%. wants me to be the ultimate burden-bearer. She 100% wants me to be responsible for the life and death decision and to be with God adequately to get His wisdom. And to cover her, and when the kids were in the home, cover the kids as well.
So, I see that as the general pattern. And even in churches where they absolutely empower women in ministry, and women are preaching and teaching, and doing all kinds of different things, and serving on the pastoral staff. If you have a couple, generally speaking, the husband's name is first and the wife's name is second. And generally speaking, the the The husband has a certain senior role. even beyond the wife.
So that's the general pattern that I see. I also see in Scripture when you look, say, in Romans 16, all of the coworkers of Paul, so many were women. And there's a big debate as to whether Junia, Junia versus Junius, so a woman versus a man, whether she's actually called an apostle. or was this well known among the apostles? There's a big linguistic, grammatical, translation debate about that.
There's no question that women played incredibly important roles. And Paul addressed them as co-workers, and they were honored, and they were esteemed. I just want to grab something here. And read this this post. that was sent to me And it starts off talking about Heidi Baker.
used by God greatly in Mozambique, but other countries as well. And boy, I just lost it here. Give me a second to find it again. Because it really It conveys things well.
Okay. It's missing. I'll paraphrase. It was a brother that served with her. Talked about how she's been stolen for preaching the gospel and her death for preaching the gospel.
And list all these places that would never have heard the gospel if she didn't go and bring it to these obscure villages and talk about the work she's done. and other countries like Brazil. And and then it lists it These female missionaries Some of the most famous missionaries have ever lived, like the Gladys Aylwards of the world, these courageous single women missionaries. who pioneered the gospel around the world sacrificially. who went to areas that no one else would go to.
who planted churches and raised up men to serve in these churches. And they'd go back home. to their home denominations, and they couldn't even preach. Here they were doing things that no man would do on the field. They were doing things that many men were terrified to do.
They were going into areas that were too dangerous, risking their lives. courageous preaching of the gospel and and God used them And yeah, you've got your 1 Timothy 2, and I don't allow women to teach or have authority over men. What does that mean? Is there a cultural context to that? How should we understand that?
And then you go over to Psalm 68, 11, and God gave the word, and great was the army of women who proclaimed it. It's female preachers. Female good news bearers, that's what it is in Hebrew. They make up the army of the Lord. Yeah, verses on different sides.
And And you have to step back and say, okay, what do we say? about these women whom God has used incredibly around the world. When I think of mercy culture, I think of Landon's wife Heather leading justice reform, burden that she got to rescue and rehabilitate. uh women trapped in in sex trafficking. and the bold steps she's taken and the hundred Uh hundred room facility to to the The facility to care for 100 women that have been rescued from sex trafficking to rehabilitate them and restore them and strengthen them and bring them the fullness of the gospel and get them back on their feet.
and things that she's pioneered. And I know brothers that serve under her joyfully as she leads that ministry. I mean there What do you say? It seems like God has raised these people up and given them burdens and called them and is using them.
So I'm giving arguments on different sides. I'm quite intentionally giving arguments on different sides to say I get where people are coming from. And I could make a case for either side on a certain level based on scripture. All right, so I want to just put up a couple of slides for you. This first slide lists four books.
on on egalitarian scholarship.
So equality in leadership or women can be women can serve in any capacity that man serves. All right. So there are four books listed. There's Discovering Biblical Equality, Pierce Westphal, others. There is Paul and gender.
But Westfall There is From Genesis to Julia, Preston Sprinkle, and Man and Woman, One in Christ by Philip Barton Payne.
So, some of you are like, oh, those books are terrible. I read those. Those books are terrible. Those people don't know anything.
Okay, that's. Read the books. Check him out. If you completely reject this and say no possible way for women to be in ministry. Certainly women pastors, absolutely not.
And then you might make a distinction. Women in ministry but not women pastors. Or women pastor, but not women, senior pastor. Those are all nuances, different discussions. But check those books out.
Check those books out. Conversely, If you're egalitarian, And you think these Southern Baptists, they're just primitive, they're living in the Stone Age, they don't recognize what God is doing, they don't know the interpretation of scripture.
Okay. Then read Read some of their best books.
So strongest complementarian scholarship. A Women in the Church, Thomas Schreiner, Andreas Kustenberger, editors of that. Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, John Piper and Wayne Grudem, editors of that. God's design for man and woman. Uh the Kostenbergers.
And then Biblical Foundations for Manhood and Womanhood, Wayne Grudem. Read those books. I mean, these are top scholars. Schreiner and Kustenberger and Grudem, these are top scholars. And they certainly know the way around scripture.
So read what they have to say. All right. Or you say, who's got time to read all these books?
Okay, then just get. This book, here's a book that gives you both views. Put up one more slide. Two views on women in ministry. Two views on women in ministry.
So it's essays by Craig Keener and others.
So Craig Keener said, dear friend, one of the world's foremost New Testament scholars. He holds to the egalitarian position. And there are other foremost New Testament scholars. who hold to the opposite position. And Again, I believe you can make a good scriptural case.
either way. My own view, my own view. is ultimately that normal senior governmental authority is male just because of the burden-bearing calling that God has given man, just as it is in the home. but that women are released to all forms of ministry, teaching, preaching in the body, and can serve in different aspects of pastoral ministry within the body. I just see the normal pattern.
The normal pattern is senior male authority. as the normal pattern. And the way most churches would actually function, even those that fully empower women in ministry. And that's why I can. I can work, I've preached for female pastors, female senior pastors.
I've preached in churches that would never allow a woman to teach publicly. And I can function in both settings, and I'm the Lord in both settings. Um To Last points. Gender distinctions are really important. Men and women or different.
And it's really important to understand that the blurring of gender distinctions is demonic. It is a demonic attack on the image of God. in which he created us male and female.
So it's not that only men have the image of God or only women have the image of God. He created us male and female, but each one unique. each one an essential part of the other. It's the two coming together as one. The two coming together as one, where we enter into the fullness.
of everything that expresses the image of God because there's unique aspects of the image of God in men and unique aspects of the image of God in women. And when you try to break down those distinctions that a man can, quote, marry a man. Or a woman can quote marry a woman. we have really gotten deeply off track. It is absolutely essential that we emphasize those and to my knowledge.
The churches that believe in women in ministry, even women pastors, they emphasize that as well. They have men's meetings, women's meetings. They have men's bathrooms and women's bathrooms. They teach about marriage and family and how men and women are different.
So you can hold to gender distinctions and absolutely fully empower women in ministry. At the same time, Paul writes that there's no male or female in Jesus.
Now, what does that mean?
Well, it also says there's no Jew or Greek and there's no slave or free. It doesn't mean the categories don't exist. He does not mean that you blur those distinctions. And that there's no difference between a Jew or a Gentile or a male or female or slave or free. in terms of their function or status in society or whatever.
He's not saying that at all. In fact, those who say, you know, there's no Jew or Gentile, we're all one in Jesus, I say, well, it also says there's no male or female. Do you still have men's rooms and women's rooms in your churches? Uh do in your church that women give birth to to children rather than men? Of course, the distinctions exist, but here's what Paul's saying.
We are absolute equals in the Lord. In our standing with God, the man is not higher than the woman, the woman is not higher than the man. In our standing with God, we are absolutely one in heaven. him. absolutely one in him.
There is no caste system. There is no class system. The man is not in a deeper spiritual status with God and the woman exterior or reverse, the woman is in a deeper status with God, the man not, no. None of that exists. We are absolute equals in terms of being equally loved.
equally saved. equally in relationship to God our Father through the blood of Jesus. But Paul writes to men and he writes to women. Doesn't he? Men this, women this, reminds them about this, reminds them about this, distinctions, different roles in different places.
And then with Jew and Gentile, he says in 1 Corinthians 7, if you're called to the Lord, meaning saved, and you're circumcised, don't become uncircumcised. If you're saved, uncircumcised, don't become circumcised. And he gives teachings to slaves and to free people.
So the categories exist and the distinctions exist, but we are absolute equals in the Lord. And interestingly, You even have in the Bible a number of cases when it mentions Priscilla and Aquila, that it mentions her name first, and the two of them disciple Apollos. And so she obviously had a prominent role in a lead role in different ways. Yep. In the Lord, all of us equal and one.
So The big takeaway Do not judge the motivation. of those you differ with. I mean, in a thousand different subjects, we have no right to do that.
Well, I have discernment.
Well. Smith Workers Worth said, practice discernment on yourself for six months. You probably won't discern something about someone else after that. Discernment of spirits is primarily just that. Is this a demonic spirit?
Is it the Holy Spirit? How to discern which spirit is at work? It doesn't give us the right to. think we can discern everybody's heart and motivation. You know, you said I discern you, I just earn you're proud.
No, we don't won't get into a discernment battle. We base things on scripture, we base things on fact, we base things on fruit. That's why Jesus talks about doing the fruit test, look at what kind of fruit is born. And if you see, healthy churches with healthy families who believe in male pastors only. and they make their biblical case for it.
And the women love the Lord. And the women are blessed serving in the ministries they serve in. And the families are blessed. Rejoice with them. And and if you see churches where women are empowered to preach and teach.
and the families are healthy. And the children love the Lord. And Jesus is being glorified. then rejoice or at the very least say I may differ with you But I'm not going to judge your motivation. And I believe that you can make a scriptural case even though I differ with it.
Where women are being held back from their callings, that is a problem. And it certainly exists in Southern Baptist circles. That may not be the motivation. I don't believe it's the motivation. It's not for me to judge.
But in cases like that, let's pray. that women will find out that it may mean having to move outside of those circles. If that's what the denominational leadership decides on, then you honor it. And if you can't live with it, you honor it by respectfully moving on. And if you know you're a woman called by God, take it to the Lord.
Say, Lord, you put this fire in my bones. You gave me this calling to preach, to teach, and I don't have a release. Open the door. He will find a way without you having to go into all kinds of rebellion. and judging all men in a negative way.
And conversely, conversely. If you're a woman in circles where everyone's expected to preach or teach, say, hey, that's not me. That's not me. I don't see that as as a woman's role. I'm happy if you do it, but I don't see it as a woman's role.
Hey, you do what you're called to do and don't feel pressure to be someone you're not or to take it one step further. if you're really uncomfortable with that. If you're in a setting where you're really uncomfortable with female pastors and women preaching and things like that, well, You have to honor the Lord. And it may be that respectfully, hey, we love you, but we need to move on from here. Better to be in a place where you're at home and can thrive.
than to constantly be differing with leaders and criticizing. Best to honor them by moving on respectfully. And then each of us ultimately, here's the bottom line. we're each going to have to give account to God for our lives. And that is where the buck stops for me.
I'm ultimately accountable to God for my life. You're accountable to God for your life. May we live in ways that honor him. Mm-hmm.
